>> it's not about her. it's about the american people. it's about the american people and how we have a real and strategic plan. this administration has not had a strategic plan for the six months that we know about the coronavirus. >> and as we said at the top right now, treasury secretary steve mnuchin and president trump's chief of staff mark meadows are heating with house speaker nance pelosi and senate minority leader chuck schumer. they are trying to come to an agreement on a coronavirus relief package. this as the trump administration is reportedly considering taking executive action to provide coronavirus relief, if congress can't reach a deal. that is according to two people with knowledge of the deliberations who spoke to the "washington post." and joining me now is nbc news digital reporter and capitol hill correspondent garrett haake. garrett, let me start with you. that meeting about to get under way. in terms of the status of these negotiations, what can you tell us? are there xwrareas where there common ground or areas where they're apart right now. what are the status of these negotiations? >> the progress of these negotiations are glacial at best. their best meeting three and a half hours long. that ir trying to string together a couple good meetings and nobody i talked to involved in this process is particularly optimistic that they can come to a full-scale agreement any time soon. we know the broad contours of what some of the problems have been. great deal of expanded unemployment benefits. democrats would like to see that stay at $600 per week for folks unemployed or peg that number to the unemployment rate so the problem gets better nationwide, those numbers come down. they don't want it to be an arbitrary time frame like the next few weeks or few months if states could put that into place as republicans have laid out there. the other big thing to watch is what to do with funding for state and local governments. democrats want to spend hundreds of billions of dollars to help out local governments around the country who have been struggling with coronavirus and republicans in their proposal have only loosened the strings around money that was already appropriated. those continue to be two of the biggest sticking points. but the typical washington cliche which often applies does so in this case. there's not an agreement on anything until there is an agreement on everything. so, the way that these sort of piles of money are slid around, it could affect the total price tag here probably the third thing i would keep an eye on. republicans in the senate are all of a sudden finding religion again about not wanting to spend too much moneyen othe next relief bill and that could be the stumbling point if and when these negotiators come to a deal. >> everything kind of a comprehensive agreement need to be in place here. that is the other ideaed floa d by the administration that you have the additional $600 boost and they say extend that by a week and just keep that going while the negotiations on everything else are playing out. is that idea dead? >> logistical and political problems with that. the idea that you turn the spigot on for one week is very difficult to do logistically and politically if you think about it from a negotiating standpoint, democrats don't want to peel off just the popular or urgent or what they see as the most critical parts of this. you want to keep all these things together and if you only deal with a couple popular things it is entirely popular that a lot of the other measures in this bill that democrats think they need to get through to the president's desk can be left on the wayside for republicans who are not interested in dealing with them. >> to shannon at the white house. taking us through all the steps of the negotiation and the report we have from the "washington post" about weighing some executive action. garrett is outlining the dimensions of this debate and federal unemployment insurance and moratorium on evictions and aid to state and local governments. do you have any sense, is the white house saying anything about where specifically they think they even could take executive action here? >> well, this is certainly the posturing at the moment. now, the big question about can they do this legally? on the surface, it does not seem that way but, of course, that has not stopped this white house from taking executive action on other things that seemed legally questionable when it comes to pushing the bounds of what powers the executive branch of the government has. a couple things to keep in mind here. let's say there was a legal challenge to this, politically, that could put democrats in a difficult position because then they appear like they are challenging the white house for giving people added unemployment benefits. so, politically, the thinking is at least one line of thinking that if they went ahead with some sort of executive action then democrats would move to block it if they felt this was a legal overreach. obviously, a lot of posturing going on and in negotiations it's hard to know whatever anyone is saying is true or whether it's just a tactic. as garrett said the white house continuing to have these conversations on the hill. at least some element could move forward on that front, but, you know, we're kind of getting to the point where the white house may need to rethink who would have these negotiations and what their strategy would be and we haven't seen mitch mcconnell play much of a role here and that is another factor element introduced in the next 48 hours or so if things don't progress. >> news coming out of the building that you're in front of. politico reported this and we at msnbc has reporting. the white house now requiring random coronavirus testing for some staffers. what can you tell us there? >> administration official told me they had already been doing voluntary random coronavirus testing of staffers here on the white house campus but now they're making it mandatory suggesting something happened where they felt the need to make this a requirement not something that people could voluntarily submit to. last week the national security adviser was diagnosed with covid-19. the white house is probably one of the least socially distanced workplaces that i've seen. you rarely see people wearing masks around the west wing while people close to the president are tested regularly. those who aren't close to the president aren't and, they're going around working without masks in close quarters. visitors are no longer having their temperatures checked or being asked for symptoms. so, you know, there's very few really measures that have been put in place in the white house but now this mandatory testing is one of them. >> all right, shannon pettypiece at the white house, garrett haake on capitol hill. thanks for being with us. as the number of coronavirus cases, now the confirmed number approaching 4.7 million, some lawmakers are pressing for more testing. but one of the nation's top health officials is the assistant health secretary he cautioned that better and faster testing, he says, will not alone solve the crisis. >> obviously, we want to increase testing. we've done that. and i told you how we've done that. but testing is a part of the strategy. we don't test our way out of this. we do smart policies with testing as an adjunct. >> joining me now is democratic congressman andy kim from new jersey. he questioned admiral giroir. this subject of testing came up there. we're seeing the reports from all over the country now. folks taking coronavirus tests and being told, okay, we'll get back to you with an answer in a week. what is your sense of what specific steps need to be taken here right now where that wait can be brought down to something more reasonable? >> thank you so much for having me. this is a huge problem still. i mean, it's huge problem for people in my district. as i said in the hearing, i have people in my district reaching out telling they waited over ten days for a test and some of them are still waiting for that. we need to be able it bring this down. it is about having more tests available and making sure that the tests are being done in a timely way. if we have 820,000 tests a day as the administration briefed us at a hearing but also saying that 40% of those tests are taking longer than three days to be able to get back. a quarter of the tests taking longer than five days. that means 200,000 people a day are going to be waiting more than five days to get their test back. that's unacceptable. >> what can be done? what steps right now should beic taen he taken here? other steps taken to get the wait time down and testing up? >> it's about our capacity. making sure that we have what our country needs to be able to do this. this includes making sure that we have greater lab space and availability in terms of capacity there to be able to make sure that we're having the other material there. there is a supply chain backlog here that is still not being addressed and we're continuing to do this in a piece meal fashion rather than having across the board. when i asked about using the defense production act and other steps like that to push forward dr. fauci and others didn't say whether they felt we were using the maximum of our capacity. i don't think the richest, most powerful country in the world should be having these types of problems with testing 195 days after the very first positive case in our country. we need to get better and we need to do that immediately. i think we should have a national standard to make sure that all tests come back within 72 hours and those are some of the types of steps thad would normally come into effect with a national testing strategy. but it shows we don't have one. >> let me ask you about the news of the hour right now in washington, d.c. that is these negotiations the meeting now about to take place. white house officials, congressional leaders ftrying t come to an agreement on a coronavirus aid package. i saw mark meadows and he said there has been some progress but he says he does not think there will be a solution in the very near term. do you agree with that assessment? >> well, first of all, it's absolutely ridiculous that we're in this situation to start with. we in the house pushed forward over ten weeks ago to be able to have a bill that would make these reforms and make these changes and extensions to be able to help the american people out. people in my district are frightened and worried and scared about what happens next. a lot of them don't know how they're going to be able to pay their bills. they don't like hearing all these excuses. so, for the senate and for the white house to come at us as a late stage and now say they want to drag their feet some more. that's absolutely unacceptable and this is the brinksmanship of washington -- >> congressman, i understand you're frustrated at how this has all come about and clear where you put the blame. i understand, i take the point. but the question is, these benefits and these federal benefits lapsed as of friday. they no longer exist right now. do you think a solution is going to be reached and a deal is going to be reached in the near future or do you agree with the white house chief of staff that this is going to drag out? >> i'm hoping, every single day i hope we get a deal today. that's what the american people deserve and for the white house chief of staff to be thinking about it and making those types of projections that it's not even close, i think that's the wrong attitude and the wrong message to send to our country. >> quick question here, the administration has put out the idea as of last friday night this $600 a week federal boost, the federal government has been shipping $600 more and that has expired. the administration put the idea out there of extend that by a week, keep that going while negotiations take place on a bigger, broader deal. i know democrats have not been eager. do you think that's something that should be on the table at all? >> well, right now i'm having everything on the table because, again, it's about making sure we're delivering for the people for the people that are struggling right now. but what they don't want to see is more kick the can down the road. they want to have something to be able to plan for. in the absence of that, i don't know how we are able to move forward, just something that continues to kick the can down the road. >> congressman andy kim democrat of new jersey. thank you for joining us. appreciate that. we have some breaking news, as well. about the president's efforts to keep his tax returns his tax records private. we're going to go to nbc investigative correspondent tom winter with the news. what can you tell us? >> the manhattan district attorney office which brought this grand jury subpoena limited back last fall looking for his tax documents not just the tax returns but the documents that make up the tax returns and that sparked a legal fight that went all the way to the supreme court. of course, last week the president and his attorneys filed a second amended complaint basically saying the supreme court made their ruling but able toal change the subpoena on grounds that you or i or anybody watching it could challenge those grounds. today the district attorney's attorneys have filed a motion with the court to dismiss that second complaint essentially telling the judge, look, these are reic cycled complaints by t president and the things he is claiming that this grand jury subpoena should not be enforced and of note, steve, here they say the idea that having the subpoena is tied to the 2016 so-called hush money payments against two women that have alleged affairs with them. that is the scope of this grand jury subpoena is inaccurate. they write an alleged, the investigation of the subpoena is also related to a alleged insurance and bank fraud by the trump organization and its officers. so, that's based on a filing that they made previously but it broadens our understanding of where this investigation and the scope of the subpoena is. in addition to that, they also address the president's concerns that this subpoena has to do with documents that are outside of new york and outside of manhattan and thus outside of the grand jury here in new york city. they say that's not true. the focus of this is the trump organization and even though they may do business in other parts of the country and other parts of the world, it's headquartered here and headquartered here throughout the entire of the period where the documents have been requested. basically here you have the manhattan district attorney's office saying your honor, enough is enough. this process continues to be delayed and we'll have statute of limitations concerns even if we get the evidence, we will not be able to move forward with it. time to bring it to an end to dismiss the president's claim and move on. the president claimed this was an overbroad subpoena that was brought in bad faith and today's filing addressing is the bulk of those concerns, steve. >> and very quickly, tom, do you have any sense of the time table here. the manhattan da is asking its case and asking this of the judge. any sense when you get an answer? >> the president's reply due by august 14th and the district attorney filed this about a week or so ahead of its schedule largely because they want to move forward so quickly. the president has a week or two here, steve too, file his reply to this and the judge may have a hearing or issue a written order. this may appeal to the second circuit court of appeals here in manhattan meaning we're another month or two away from a decision on that. the chances are it's possible the manhattan's office does not get the president's returns until after election day. but, of course, this schedule is fluid and could change and that could change, as well. >> tom winter with the breaking news there. thank you for in joing us. appreciate that. the university of kentucky is welcoming its 30,000 students back for the fall semester with mandatory coronavirus testing on campus. we'll be in lexington with more on that after the break. plus, new hopes for a coronavirus vaccine in the coming months but now health experts suggest that may not be enough by itself to get society back to normal. that conversation is next. you're watching msnbc. msnbc. that they don't recall things as quickly as they used to or they don't remember things as vividly as they once did. i've been taking prevagen for about three years now. people say to me periodically, "man, you've got a memory like an elephant." it's really, really helped me tremendously. prevagen. healthier brain. better life. stand up to moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis. and take. it. on... ...with rinvoq. rinvoq a once-daily 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are also protected. and stay out! plus with unlimited data, you can stream and scroll more than ever. and we'll ensure that you get the most wifi coverage throughout your home. this is xfi complete. simple, easy, awesome. get the security, unlimited daa and wifi coverage you need. plus, xfi customers can add xfi complete for $11 a month. click, call or visit a store today. fall semester is set to begin for two weeks and beginning coronavirus testing for its entire student body. today is the first day of a two-week testing operation with multiple testing sites set up around campus for the 30,000 students expected to be there. 30,000 students. that's a small city expected to be there. tell us what is going on. >> hey, steve, yes, as you said, they're expecting and the goal is they believe they could test roughly 30,000 students when all is said and done. any student coming on campus is required to have a covid test. the majority of classes once the fall semester officially starts on august 17th will be in person. regular on-campus classes. when a student comes here at one of these five testing sites the first thing they do is scan and they get checked in. if they live off campus, they're going to next walk up right over here to a wellness distribution. i want you to see these kits. these are personal protective kits, if you will, that the school is passing out to every student. students on campus will have these in their dorm rooms with they get here. inside you can see on this back one here, i want to make sure i don't touch it. but masks inside the bag they're giving students and they have alcohol wipes and thermometers as well as hand sanitizers. every single student gets one of these if they're showing up here today to come to the test and then make their way down this hill where they go check in and get that nasal swab. results come back within 24 to 48 hours. one student we spoke to today after he got his test he said that he feels like the school is doing everything they can to try to mitigate the risk but he is worried that some other students could perhaps be careless. here's some more of what he told us. >> i would like to think that everyone in our university is looking out for each other because we pride ourselves on being a community but different perspectives on how people perceive the coronavirus. some people are being cautious and other people are inviting me to parties and creating unsafe circumstances. i don't think anyone is acting out in malicious intent, but i think there are people much more comfortable with the virus than i am and to keep people safe. >> the president of the university says they know there is some risk bringing students back on campus and they're taking every step to mitigate that risk. they have a team of contact tracers inside what is kind of a covid command center on one of the other buildings that used to be a faculty gathering area or if a student tests positive at one of these sites they go through the process of trying to track down other students who may have been in contact with them and make sure that student is getting the care that they need and quarantining for as long as necessary. steve? >> ellison barber down there in lexington, kentucky, thank you for that. and the director of the world health organization is issuing a stark warning today. reminding people that despite the hope of an effective vaccine in the months ahead, life will likely not return to normal. >> we all hope to have a number of effective vaccines that can help prevent people from infection. however there is no silver bullet at the moment. and there might never be. >> joining me now is dr. peter the dean of the national school of tropical medicine at baylor college of medicine and a co-director of the texas children's hospital center for vaccine development. thank you for joining us. appreciate it. i don't know if you heard that clip there, but you got the world health organization there saying, hey, vaccine may be coming. it's not a silver bullet. i know i was reading a story in "washington post" today basically saying, hey, eeb ven you get a vaccine a long time, even a matter of years before you can get life back to normal as we knew it before the pandemic. be honest with you, i'm looking for some good news here. can you give it to me when it comes to a vaccine? is there some good news? >> i can give you both good news and realistic news. the good news is that i'm pretty confident we'll have several covid-19 vaccines. i'm a vaccine developer. we have a new covid-19 vaccine that we're scaling up production for in india as a low cost covid-19 vaccine. we'll have several, i think, because it's not really that complicated a problem. it's an old school problem in virology. we have to introduce high levels of antibodies against the virus and create some t-cell immunity and multiple ways to do that and that's why we're seeing all sorts of different technology. that's the good news. the sobering news is that many of these vaccines may not actually prevent the infection. they may reduce severity of disease. if that happens, we're fought going to achieve herd immunity through vaccination in many instances or even if it does prevent infection, the antivaccine movement has become so strong that a lot of people will opt out. the consequence of that is that many of these vaccines are not going to be replacement technologies they're companion technologies. we still have to do our due diligence and maintain probably wearing masks and doing social distance. there are not magic solutions and this is one of the problems that we have here in the united states. the white house tends to veer towards magic versus hydroxy chlorquine and then vaccines and vaccines will help and have an important role but we're still going to have to implement some significant levels of public health control that the white house unfortunately currently refuses to do. >> i'm curious. there's the question of the next few months, but there is a question of the next few years. when you're talking about mask wearing, social distancing protocols, public events, schools, concerts, public gatherings. is that something you think we might be years away from? >> well, it is. it's going to be an evolving process. and newer vaccines will come down the line to replace the older vaccines. so, we saw this for instance with the influenza type b program and the hpv vaccine to prevent cervical cancers and other cancers that they become replaced with new and improved versions. it will be an iterative process and the good news is if the nation put its mind to it right now we could bring the whole country to containment mode by october 1 and i put out a plan for doing that. we just have to do it at the national level. can't rely on this existing approach to put the states out in front while the u.s. government just provide back-up support. that has failed catastrophically we still have to implement that federal plan. if we do that now, we can go a long way and the vaccine will help. life will improve and get better. it may not be entirely normal but i think if we were to implement that national plan, even if we do it now by october 1st, we could open schools safely even without a vaccine. we could open up colleges and even do sporting events but we still have to be willing to do the hard work and then when the vaccine comes along that much easier. >> i'll bite. you say you have a plan where by october 1st that could happen. we have about a minute here. give us the basics. what do you think it would take to be able to achieve what you're describing by this fall? >> so, what it does is it requires every state to get to containment mode defined by some as one new case per million residents per day. we may not have to be that drastic but an agreed upon national metric. some states in maine and vermont may already be there and others such as in texas and florida have a lot of work to do and in some cases maybe even doing a mandatory stay at home in some of those states. if we bring that all the way down, then teachers can feel safe returning to the classroom. they don't feel safe right now doing that across the south and now moving up into the midwest and they're absolutely right. they're being pushed to do something that is unsafe. we've got to stop that. we can do this by october 1. the hard part is getting the white house to buy in. i've contacted members of the white house and pushing this plan but, you know, we still got a president sending out the tweets that he's sending out and peter novarro saying what he is. i don't know what we can do to bring them around to see this point of view. >> dr. peter hotez, thank you very much for taking a few minutes. >> thanks so much. with the number of coronavirus cases around the world now at nearly 20 million. we're going to take a look at what some countries are doing to try to get ahead of a second wave. here at home, we are tracking tropical storm isaias as it accelerates up the east coast after sparing florida from any serious damage. it is expected to regain hurricane strength before it hit the carolinas later today. strong winds, flooding, storm surge flooding and all expected there. you're watching msnbc. xeljanz. the first and only pill of its kind that treats moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis, psoriatic arthritis, or moderate to severe ulcerative colitis when other medicines have not helped enough. xeljanz can lower your ability to fight infections. before and during treatment, your doctor should check for infections, like tb and do blood tests. tell your doctor if you've had hepatitis b or c, have flu-like symptoms, or are prone to infections. serious, sometimes fatal infections, cancers including lymphoma, and blood clots have happened. taking a higher than recommended dose of xeljanz for ra may increase risk of death. tears in the stomach or intestines and serious 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has tested positive. he is asymptomatic and is in self quarenen teen. this comes after sean payton of the new orlean saints tested positive back in march. with the number of coronavirus cases now surpassing 18 million, governments around the world are reimposing restrictions and rolling out new ones to try to prevent further outbreaks. joining me now with more is nbc chief global correspondent bill nealy. thanks for joining us. very interesting, we talk about this state or that state and all the other countries around the world dealing with this. what are you seeing there? what is sort of the picture looking like internationally? >> yes, steve. well, from manila in the philippines and melbourne in australia to madrid in spain, it is really the same story. and that's rising numbers of infections and new lockdowns imposed by authorities who thought they got the virus under control the most startling is manila, the capital of the philippines where 12 million people are now in a new lockdown. it was relaxed in june partly to try to help the economy. but a rising number of cases means lockdown there. a shock, too, for the residents of melbourne in australia. the second biggest city in australia. 5 million people now on a nighttime curfew and one million workers in melbourne unable to go to work. so, the rates there are rising, but they're not rampant as they are in mexico. and in mexico, one of the issues is the president who is, like president trump, he is a bit of a covid skeptic. he won't wear a mask and doesn't like lockdown measures and doesn't agree with social distancing and mexico's numbers are rising so fast that a few days ago in total deaths, it overtook the uk to become number three in the world. and significant steve that the top three countries for deaths from coronavirus in the world are now in the americas and led, if you like, by covid skeptics as the u.s. in the first place and brazil second and mexico now third and peru, colombia and ch chile behind them. remember the tourist season in europe is in full swing. rising number of cases, new lockdowns and new measures that have had to be imposed. steve? >> all right, bill neely, thank you for that report. appreciate that. in spacex first ever crude mission has now safely returned to earth. we'll talk to nasa administrator about what this means for the future of space travel for astronauts and perhaps tourists. that's next. plus, the federal judge whose son was killed and husband severely injured by a gunman who showedfamily's home is speaking out. we'll hear from her after the break. break. humana calls it human care. it's talking to a doctor from your couch, or helping you find a cheaper prescription before you ask. it's helping you fix the rugs so you don't fall, and keeping you social, online or off. it's getting to know you, so you can be your healthiest. that's our superpower. that's human care. from humana. well, for a few moments this weekend at least, there was no talk of an election, no mention of covid-19 or pandemic in general and, instead, only for a few moments but they were fun moments all eyes were on the water and on the skies over the gulf of mexico for this. >> there we have confirmation of splash down. >> u.s. astronauts sent to space aboard the spacex dragon, this is the first private charter to carry nasa astronauts to the great beyond and it returned safely to earth yesterday. you saw it there. the capsule carrying bob behnken and doug hurley returned on time opening the door to next level of space travel. joining me now is jim bridenstine. thank you, sir, for joining us. let me start on that because we mentioned this was different than space missions and nasa missions we are asust accustome. built the machinery for this and nasa astronauts went and you said this is the beginning and this trip marks the beginning of a new era. describe what that new era is going to look like you think. we may have trouble there. i'm not hearing anything in response and i'm not seeing any movement in that shot. we may not have jim bridenstine from nasa. we will move on. and some breaking news, as well, we can get to here. earlier today a federal judge in new jersey whose son was shot and killed last month released an emotional video in a plea for reform as she was fighting back tears judge esther salas demanded more to be done to protect private information of judges and their families. the alleged gunman had information that included her home address and even the church she attended. salas' son, daniel, was killed when the gunman opened fire. the shooting happened at the end of the weekend celebrating his 20th birthday. >> when mark and i returned from church, daniel was upstairs sleeping and we decided to give him a little rest. but as the afternoon progressed, it was time to clean up from the weekend festivities. daniel and i went downstairs to the basement and we were chatting as we always do. and daniel said, mom, let's keep talking. i love talking to you, mom. and it was at that exact moment that the doorbell rang and daniel looked at me and said, who is that? and before i could say a word, he sprinted upstairs. within seconds i heard the sound of bullets and someone screaming no. i later learn ed that this monster who had a fedex package in his hand opened fire but daniel being daniel protected his father and he took the shooter's first bullet directly to the chest. the monster then turns his attention to my husband and began to shoot at my husband. one shot after another. we are living every parent's worst nightmare. making preparations to bury our only child, daniel. my family has experienced a pain that no one should ever have to endure. and i am here asking every one to help me ensure that no one ever has to experience this kind of pain. we may not be able to stop something like this from happening again, but we can make it hard for those who target us to track us down. >> now, judge salas said she 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earned herself a master's degree. she was running in a marathon when a man behind her collapsed from cardiac arrest. and using her experience saved this man's life. so why do i think there should be more people like carmen bravo in this world? because that man... was me. we are now to the late stage lobbying and final deliberations for joe biden's running mate. that's right, his pick of a vice president is due any day now. we'll see he had indicated the decision would be made this week, but it may be some time before it's announced publicly. mike memoli has been fall oleg all of the twists and turns on this journey, and he joins us now. mike, thank you for taking a few minutes. so we know from the beginning joe biden is going to pick a female candidate. now, we've got one day you read it, kamala harris is the front-runner. no, karen bass is couraging, no, it might be somebody else. do you have any sense here if there is a short list that's emerged? >> well, i think the way to look at it is that the biden vice presidential search committee has done its work, and there is a picture of what the final grouping might look like based on sources we have talked to who are in touch with that committee. and those who are familiar with the process, but then, there's the prosthat begins once biden himself, the ball is fully in his court and he begins to engage fully. i have been cautioned by those close to the campaign, you know biden well. you know there are new names that could reemerge that haven't necessarily been part of the final group. now, we expect it coming down to susan rice, to karen bass, to kamala harris potentially in the top three. but we saw over the weekend that karen bass just as her stock rose quickly, also began to be challenged by some questions about her past comments, her travels to cuba, as well as appearance she made at a church of scientology. the other part about all of this is joe biden has been very clear what he's looking for is a governing partner. let's look at what he said himself about what we can call the biden test. >> the president has to be what it was that i would want if i took the job as vice president. and i said, i want to make sure that you promise me i get to be the last person in the room. >> so how does his short list match up to the biden test? >> i need people who make up for one of my many of my weaknesses. >> post george floyd, a woman of color and one with credentials on criminal justice reform could reassure democrats unhappy with biden's record, especially the 1994 crime bill, point karen bass or val demings. >> no president has the pucacapy in the 21st century to handle every. you have be willing to turn over presidential responsibility. you can't do it for a cabinet member. >> point, susan rice, who worked closely with biden in the west wing as obama's national security adviser. and could shoulder the foreign policy burden while biden focuses at home. >> you have to be able to be willing to have someone with you who will tell you the truth that they think you're wrong. and not be intimidated by the fact you're the vice president sitting behind that desk. >> an argument for elizabeth warren who has perhaps the biggest policy differences with biden, especially on health care. >> but if i pick someone who had a view that they insisted we do medicare for all, that would be a real problem. >> then there's the question of trust. >> that little girl was me. >> what that opening debate clash with kamala harris means for the veepstakes betting favorite. >> barack and i used to argue like the devil, but we always did it in private. no grudges, at least for him. >> i'm not good at keeping hard feelings. >> so these questions about trust, the questions about kamala harris, and you saw perhaps the loaded term ambition being applied to her. it's important to note, steve, that this is a test that's being applied to everyone on the short list. biden, as you saw there, wants to have the same kind of close governing relationship he enjoyed with president obama, and the question of whether he can count on his running mate to be a team player is one that all of his potential short listers have to pass, but certainly, we saw in that debate the most obvious questions are about kamala harris. >> just quickly, in terms of the expectation on timing, stale little time before the convention. is next week when this will be announced? >> that's right, we should know that biden said he would make a decision this week. it's not even clear that's the case, but the biden campaign is telling us not to expect that until next week at the earliest. >> mike memoli, thanks as always for joining us. appreciate that. >> and we also wanted to mention some sad news from the world of entertainment over the weekend. one of the most recognizable character actors has patsdz edp away. wilford brimly was instantly recognized with his walrus mustache and a manner that was direct and folksy at the same time. he had a knack for stealing the presence with movies like the absence of malice and the firm, where he played a devious security director who tormented tom cruise. his biggest hit was probably "cocoon" a movie that was so successful, he got his own series on nbc for a few years, "our house" and if you ever saw a quaker oats ad in the '80s, you'll never forget his face. he was 85 years old. and that wraps up the hour for me. my colleague, katy tur, picks up our coverage right after this quick break. from prom dresses... ...to soccer practices... ...and new adventures. you hope the more you give the less they'll miss. but even if your teen was vaccinated against meningitis in the past... they may be missing vaccination for meningitis b. let's help protect them together. because missing menb vaccination could mean missing out on a whole lot more. ask your doctor if your teen is missing meningitis b vaccination. ask your doctor if your teen i wouldn't be here if i thought reverse 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federal reserve bank is calling for another round of lockdowns. neel kashkari says a strict shutdown while we get the virus in check is the only way the country and the economy can fully recover. >> and residents of the carolinas already battling covid-19 are now being told to brace