Good morning. Its 7 00 in the east, 4 00 a. M. Out west, theres a lot to tell you about. From the report about a new potential whistleblower to a subpoena for the white house, to what trump told a republican senator about ukraine aid. And the president firing back at democrats. When adam schiff made it up, you talk about pinocchio, that should get ten pinocchios. Adam schiff. We dont call him shifty schiff for nothing. Adam schiff made up my words. Adam schiff representative, congressman, made up what i said. The impeachment inquiry turning to Vice President mike pence. A new take on which key player is the most vulnerable. Plus the andrew yang surge. Why his name is coming up regarding the november debate. And new this morning, there is new reporting of what could become a major piece of evidence in the impeachment inquiry. The New York Times reporting that a Second Intelligence official is considering whether to file a whistleblower complaint about the president seeking foreign help from ukraine against his political opponent, joe biden. The times reports the second official has more direct information about the events detailed in the first whistleblower complaint. And that the second official is among those interviewed by the Intelligence CommunityInspector General to corroborate the allegations of the original whistleblower. The new reporting highlights the lengths the president and his inner circle have gone to to pressure ukraine to investigate the bidens. But remember, the president himself has already admitted that. If we feel theres corruption we have a right to go to a foreign country. President zelensky, if it were me, i would recommend that they start an investigation into the bidens. If they were honest about it, they would start a Major Investigation into the bidens. Likewise, china should start an investigation into the bidens. We had a great conversation, largely the fact that we dont want our people like Vice President biden and his son, creating the corruption already in the ukraine. Theres been a fire hose of new information within the last 24 hours. House democrats have subpoenaed the white house and requested documents from the Vice President. Secretary of state mike pompeo has failed to meet a subpoena deadline for documents. But House Democrats say the state department has reached out and nbc news is reporting that the c. I. A. s top lawyer made what she considered to be a criminal referral to the Justice Department about the allegations made by the whistleblower against the president. Democrats are gathering evidence and testimony, yesterday the intelligence Inspector General testified there behind closed doors. Next friday its the former u. S. Ambassador to ukraines turn to testify. So we learned that tuesday the u. S. Ambassador to the European Union is also set to testify. Ambassador Gordon Sondland was one of three u. S. Diplomats whose Text Messages revealed how they were to persuade ukraine to publicly commit to investigate the president s political opponent. Joe biden responding. Keep in mind theres no evidence of wrongdoing here by the former Vice President or his son, hunter. All this talk by the president about corruption, comes from the most corrupt president weve had in modern history. Hes the definition of corruption, hes indicted himself by his own statements this is not about me, its not about my son. Theres not a shred of evidence thats anything wrong. This guy like all bullies is a coward, he does not want to run against me. Joining me is elena tureen, White House Reporter for axios and kevin surly, washington correspondent for bloomberg news. The New York Times story, how significant is having a second whistleblower here who reportedly has more direct knowledge coming forward . Its incredibly significant. One of the biggest lines of defense from the white house with regard to i guess well call it the first whistleblower, is that everything they base their complaint off of was secondhand information. This is what lawmakers, republican lawmakers and allies of the president have been repeatedly making this point over the past several weeks, past two weeks, it feels like its been longer. And the president and the white house themselves are saying this whistleblower is not entirely legitimate. Because its all secondhand information. Its a word weve heard thrown around a lot. Another whistleblower according to the New York Times report had apparently has more firsthand knowledge of what happened on this call is willing to come forward and testify and it was someone who according to the report, was interviewed by the Inspector General and found to be corroborated. Then its incredibly significant. It really could change this line of defense from the white house as well. Have we had reaction about a potential second whistleblower from the white house . Not precisely in terms of based on my reporting, hearing what theyre saying around him. Heres what i can say, this makes it even more likely that House Democrats are going to continue on the path toward impeachment. Were hearing that articles of impeachment could come before thanksgiving with the impeachment proceedings on the house floor by the end of the year. And look, now that theres two whistleblowers reportedly, its only going to embolden those democrats, even those democrats on the fence, to get on board with what Speaker Pelosi, as well as House Intelligence Committee chairman adam schiff have been calling for. Its still a little too early to tell whether or not its going to place more pressure on republicans. Because ill be candid here. Ill be interested for what alana has to say, ive spoke within several republicans who are still in lockstep with this white house. That makes conviction in the senate very unlikely and it also makes it unlikely that there would be republicans in the house joining with democrats on impeachment. Alana, what do you think . From people ive spoken with on the hill, republicans that kevin is referring to as well, people in the white house, their strategy of the moment is really to just continue with stonewall democrats in the house committees requests for subpoenas. For interviews or for documents. One argument that the white house is making, axios reported this last week, that the president was planning on publicly laying all this out in a letter, is that nil House Speaker nancy pelosi holds a formal vote on an impeachment inquiry, theyre not going to treat it like one. What officials tell me that means is that it gives more justification at least from the white houses point of view for them to continue to block any of these requests. The requests to weve seen secretary of state mike pompeo subpoenaed, weve seen Rudy Giuliani subpoenaed. Mike pence is being requested to hand over documents so is his chief of staff, mick mulvaney. These house committees are farreaching into the top levels of the white house for information. And the white houses response as of now is were not going to cooperate if we dont have to. I want to get your take on the Text Messages we read towards the end of the week between the u. S. Diplomats released by congress. Including this one from a top u. S. Diplomat in ukraine. Who says are we now saying the Security Assistance in the white house meeting are conditioned on investigations . The u. S. Ambassador responded simply, call me. So what do you think the white houses defense could be to this . I asked this to a Senior Source the other day. This is prior, i want to be clear, this was prior to the second whistleblower development. What they said is that the white house going to try to say theyre looking into corruption all around the world. Whether it relates to the bidens or not. So whether or not that defense going to be something that holds up with the american public, were going to have to wait and see. But the Text Messages seemingly would corroborate with that whistleblower complaint. Now the original whistleblower complaint, which was essentially look, look into the bidens. And youll get the military aid, that said the president has been adamant that there was no quid pro quo. You heard that Fiery Exchange with reuters jeff mason and the president. And the president was asked repeatedly by jeff, you know why was he even bringing up hunter bide ton begin with. And the president did not take the opportunity to answer that question directly. I think that question, that moment is going to be something that the president will be continue to be asked about, as will other folks within the administration. That question i think is at the heart of this. The president as you mentioned is trying to defend himself this week. And we put together a little summary of what that looked like. Listen to this. The call was perfect, a perfect conversation. I heard rick scott today say that was a perfect conversation. It was perfect. Shifty schiff, who should resign. We dont call him shifty schiff for nothing, hes a shifty, dishonest guy, hes a low life. Theres an expression, he couldnt carry his blank strap. A moat, not a word i use, but they used it. A moat. This is a hoax. The greatest hoax. Its a whole hoax. Its corrupt and its fake. Now look at nancy pelosi. She hands out subpoenas like theyre cookies. You want a subpoena . Here you go. Take them like theyre cookies. The question, sir, was what did you want president zelensky to do about Vice President biden and his son, hunter. Are you talking to me . Did you hear me . Did you hear me . Ask him a question. I will, but ive given you a long answer, ask this gentleman a question. Dont be rude. Its a whole hoax. And you know who is playing into the hoax . People like you. And the fake news media. You should be ashamed of yourself. I think ive answered most of your questions. So kevin, that is what we see in front of the cameras. And it seems to be a pretty scattered strategy. Is there a strategy coming out of the white house for the president here . Well theres a debate. I mean theres a debate between inside trump world with the onehalf of the debate is take this incredibly seriously, scorched earth mentality, go after everyone. Push through and keep fighting this because the impeachment threat is real. Then the other side of the debate is, you know, well lets wait and see. Because if they think if they take it incredibly seriously, that it will put, it will give creedan ancedence to the invest and theres a line of thinking in some conservative thought circles that if Speaker Pelosi is going to be issuing subpoenas to everyone that it would essentially hurt her case, so theres a massive debate. I will say this in both of those camps, there are people who say that they are raising recordbreaking fundraising off of this. I think you know to elenas point until there are articles of impeachment on the floor of the house of representatives, republicans are in a bind, because they dont really know where this is going. Alana when you see what the president has put forward over the past week as a defense, how would you sum up what that reflects . Its classic President Trump and its classic the trump administration. Weve seen the exact same branding, the president he is in a way a masterful brander. He knows how to reframe the conversation the way he wants to thats why were seeing nicknames. He employed them in the 2016 campaign, hes employing them now. Shifty schiff, using the line novalue democrats or something along those lines. Theyre continuing to try to discredit the Intelligence Community. We saw this during the Mueller Investigation repeatedly with the president. Theyre trying to discredit the whistleblower, questioning whether everything was hearsay or how they got their information. Were going to continue to see this in the weeks ahead. Alana treene, kevin cirilli, thank you. [ loud squawking and siren blaring ] only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. kickstart my heart by motley crue truck honks wheels screeching clapping sound of can hitting bag and bowl clapping always there in crunch time. Create up to 12 combinations with applebees new pasta and grill combos starting at 9. 99. And get more bites for your buck with our late night halfpriced apps. Now thats eatin good in the neighborhood. New revelations from a new nbc news report that says a top c. I. A. Lawyer made a criminal referral in a phone call to the doj over the whistleblowers allegations. But the department declined to examine the concern because they didnt consider the phone conversation a formal criminal referral because it was not in written form. Joining me now is matthew miller, the former chief spokesperson for the department of justice and msnbc justice and security analyst. Good morning, matt. Good morning. Attorney general william barr did not act on complaints from the c. I. A. And the director of National Intelligence because it wasnt in written form. Whats your interpretation of that . Two things about that. First i think it is unusual that it wasnt sent in written form. It looks to me i suspect there was a little bit of bureaucratic battle going back and forth between the c. I. A. And the Justice Department where both of them wanted the other one to take responsibility and neither one wanted to have their fingerprints on being the person that killed a criminal investigation. That said, the Justice Department doesnt need to have a written referral to start the investigation. And they dont need to do what as they said in the story, which is you know, they said they only looked at that as an election matter. They only asked the question whether the president s actions constituted a violation of election law. They dont have to do that. Thats not usually what they do in these circumstances, usually they would get the information and look at all the available federal statutes and make a decision on that. They just decided not to open an investigation at all. Does this need to become a criminal investigation . I dont think it does. I think it would be unhelpful in this situation. I think one of the things that we saw through after the end of the Mueller Investigation is that the criminal Justice System is illsuited to deal with president ial misconduct. The Justice Department believes it cannot indict a sitting president. Think its unlikely with bill barr as the attorney general, even if there were criminal investigation, we would ever see evidence turned over to congress. We now know and its probably been clear for some time the best way to Police President ial misconduct is with an impeachment process. Congress has been able to get evidence for this inquiry. Think thats the best route to go for an investigation that could actually hold the president accountable. I want to take a quick look at the president , all the president s men connected to the case who have been active in some of the evidence publicly as well. Attorney general barr, Rudy Giuliani, secretary of state mike pompeo. Who do you think is the most vulnerable here . All of the above . They all have kind of similar problems but they all have one in the same problems, they were all at least aware of what was going on and at worst, were involved in it. Rudy giuliani was very much involved. If there ever were a criminal investigation say after the president left office i think he would have the most liability. Just with respect to kind of liability in terms of being aware and caught up in a scandal, both the Vice President and mike pompeo seem to have had a great deal of awareness about this. The Vice President , one of the Vice President s advisers was on the phone call that the president had with president zelensky of ukraine. They gave this weird explanation to the Washington Post where he either didnt read the briefing about it or if he read the briefing, he didnt understand it. Its odd that they couldnt pick one of those defenses. And then of course mike pompeo, it was his state department that was helping carry out the scheme for months, we saw in the Text Messages released, one of the ambassador to the eu, Gordon Sondland said if you dont like whats going on, take it up with the secretary. Think its hard to believe that pompeo wasnt fully aware of what was going on. And i think the congress will have a lot of questions about his actions and whether he helped further this team in the coming weeks. The Vice President is also getting roped into this more so than i imagine woe like. The chairman of three house committees, intel, Foreign Affairs and oversight are requesting key documents from pence, his response, his office is response r responding claiming the request was not serious. Quoting the donothing democrats in their words. What happen s if he doesnt wor with them . I think theyre not going to turn over documents, i think theyll follow the playbook is that the white house is going to stonewall and make democrats take them to cour