Transcripts For MSNBCW Morning Joe 20200928

The you just go down the list. You can think of all that, you can also think of all the money he lost over the years. Talk about the busineiggest los. Never seen a worse businessman in my life. That was president hold on a second, mika. Some people might say thats harsh for you to call donald trump the biggest loser when it comes to business. Its staggering. But the numbers actually show that through a large part of his business career, he lost more money than any other american citizen. And the amazing thing is daddy gave him the e kwif equivalent of 400 million, he lost all of that, bankruptcies right and left. Then, as he was struggling he finally got to the apprentice, struck oil there, made another 400 million there. Lost all of that money. Like he i dont know. You would think if you lost 400 million that your daddy gave you the first time, you would say, hey, the next time i make some money im not going to be really stupid with it. But hes i think its safe to say, if you just look at the federal records, mika, he is the least successful business person of all time. And the incredible thing is that he has painted himself as this great businessman. Which, by the way, we all know that in new york, real Business People would die laughing at the prospect when donald trump was doing the apprentice, they would say Middle America thinks thats a Good Business man . Thats a business tycoon . They would laugh because they were running the banks where donald trump had rolled up hundreds of millions in debt. They were the ones running the Construction Projects he couldnt pay for. They were the ones who had seen him collapse and fail time and time again. I think when the history books are written, it will show that nobody has lost more money in American Business over the past 20 years consistently than donald trump. We heard all the stories and now the tax returns are backing it up. That was President Trump lashing out at the New York Times over the bombshell report of money problems and maybe legal questions coming out as well. Struggling property, chronic losses, years of tax avoidance and hundreds of millions in debt quickly coming due. Well get to those newly obtained records ahead. Tax avoidance is one thing. A lot of thats not what im talking about, though. Americans engage in tax avoidance. And weve talked time and again how we think the tax code is horrible. It allows billionaires, multimillionaires amazon, amazon paid zero, zero in federal income taxes. And thats what were talking about here, federal income taxes. So theres something terribly wrong with the tax code and it needs to be fixed. But thats tax avoidance. What were talking about here looks like tax evasion. And if the irs ends up, in the end, deciding going after trump and winning that case there, you know, you could have a guy thats spending his post presidency bankrupt and all of these loans were finding out that are coming due in the next three, four years, donald trump has personally guaranteed. So this is a guy, make no mistake of it, look at the numbers, he can call it fake news. Its his own tax returns. So if its fake news, hes also guilty of tax fraud. Its his own tax returns this reporting is over. Yeah. Were looking at a guy who could be bankrupt in the next three to four years. And is he a billionaire . Not even close. And also, joe, if you look into these numbers as we will over the days and weeks to come, carefully, it may explain his behavior as well. It does, yeah. It may show what his intentions were, where he was vulnerable. And how he played the game. And the money he got from turkey well talk to mike schmidt and others about this, but the money he got from Foreign Countries, it explains an awful lot. Good morning and welcome to morning joe as we back into the show this morning, its monday, september 28th. With us we have White House Reporter for the Associated Press Jonathan Lemire. Host of politics nation and president of the National Action network reverend al sharpton. His new book rise up confronting a country at the cross roads is out tomorrow. Well be talking to reverend al all this week about rise up throughout this week as it launches again tomorrow. Were very excited about that. Also with us Political Correspondent for msnbc news and National Weather service, Steve Kornacki. And nbc news correspondent, kasie dc. And the New York Times reporter and National Security analyst Michael Schmidt author of the book donald trump versus the United States, inside the struggle to stop the president. We want to get to battleground state polling showing joe biden up over President Trump in several key states. 36 days before election day. People are voting now. In maine, the latest Colby College poll shows biden with an 11 point lead, 50 to 39 . In wisconsin, biden up by 10, 54 to 44 . In michigan, the same poll gives biden an eightpoint lead, 52 to 44 . In minnesota, usa today pal has biden up 47 to 40 . While the star tribune has biden up by 6 in the state, 48 to 42 . And in North Carolina, the latest cbs news poll finds biden and President Trump in a statistical tie, 48 to trumps 46 . In georgia the same poll shows another statistical tie, trump 47 , biden 46. And in South Carolina, the cbs news yougov poll shows President Trump holding a 10 point lead, 52 to 42 . Steve kornacki, no need to put the asterisk next to any of these polls anymore, it is no longer early. These are not National Polls. The National Polls still unmoved yesterday, a couple National Polls at ten and nine, so looking the same as they have for an entire year. One of the most tumultuous years in modern american history. The one thing thats a steady is joe biden has been ahead by 8, 9 points. But i want to zone in, steve, because it is true generals are always fighting the last war, i guess political pundits are looking at the last race. What have we been saying the last three, four years, its the white voters donald trump has been gaining while hes been insulting hispanics, minorities, the others. You look where the white guys are, in wisconsin, supposedly, in michigan, in minnesota, and you see, actually, joe biden consolidating. Apparently hes doing pretty well with voters in wisconsin. And this is a consistency a ten point lead in wisconsin, weve seen a nine point lead, eight point leads, post kenosha it hasnt been close. In michigan we have an eight point lead in michigan, in minnesota a seven point lead. And yet we didnt show the polls from florida and arizona, but where is it getting close, steve . Its getting close in florida and arizona. In the sun belt, in part because biden hasnt closed the deal with hispanics yet. So we have sort of a reversal of what everybody is talking about. But lets talk about the industrial midwest. Because thats Donald Trumps only path to victory. Whats going on up there . Several things happened. They all came together for donald trump in 2016. One is that he ended up getting, you know, pretty much consolidating the republican base, helped him in a state like georgia, you talk about texas and North Carolina. But the other ingredient is what youre honing in on. The Northern Tier line, north dakota all the way up to maine, to northern and western maine you find town after town, county after county where donald trump was running up massive numbers in places with large populations of blue collar white voters, white voters without a college degree. Older white voters running up massive margins. All the polls youre putting up, they are consistent in this way. Represent polls showing Significant Movement among white voters and among noncollege white voters, which is trumps base. We looked at wisconsin and michigan, two states trump flipped, these are states where trump was basically winning the blue collar white vote by about 30 points in 2016. That was much higher than anybody thought he was going to get in 2016, about 30 points, our polling right now and other polls out there, they find the same thing, Single Digits, trump lead of Single Digits among noncollege white voters in those states. Put maine up there. Its part of the story. Why did trump get an electoral vote out of maine in 2016, because that Congressional District, one of the two state that is does it, is pifilled wi blue collar white voters, trump ran up the score in many 2016 against Hillary Clinton. Weve seen several polls from that Congressional District that shows joe biden running competitively with donald trump. One thing to keep in mind here, we have spent four years talking about the trump base, the trump voters, blue collars white, noncollege white. Remember the day after the election in 2016 we had a different term for those voters we called them obama obama trump voters. These are voters who went for obama in 2008 and stuck with him in 2012 and flipped to donald trump in 2016. Thats why he was winning a state like iowa, wisconsin, michigan. The obama part of that equation, in the polling at least, is coming back into the mix. Biden is drawing support now. Its starting to look a little more for the democrats like 2012 than 2016. And Jonathan Lemire, you suddenly see in these numbers that Steve Kornacki just pointed out the significance of the New York Times yesterday, not just for msnbc prime time anchors to talk about all night, the taxes. You have the blue collar voters that, again, went enough for obama twice and then went, as steve said, plus 30 for donald trump. Now down to Single Digits. Weve all been looking at these white blue collar voters down to Single Digits. And as nate silver said, another swing of two or three or four points from these blue collar voters, suddenly you have states like iowa tipping to biden. Which its already close. Ohio tipping to biden, and a state youve been focused on as well. Pennsylvania. I mean, this story, again, you know, for people who say this is an old story. It may be so, it may be so, but the timing of this could not come worse for a man who is bleeding support terribly among White Working Class blue collar voters. And im not so sure as minnesota, wisconsin, michigan goes, im not sure that doesnt have an impact ohio and pennsylvania if those White Working Class voters in pennsylvania are seeing the same thing theyre seeing in wisconsin. So were already seeing in the poll numbers the president s erosion of support from White Working Class voters, and youre right. Part of what he did in 2015 and 2016 as a candidate was to sell himself as a successful businessman. This story, the tax returns undercuts that image dramatically. Moreover as a smart republican pointed out to me last night there have been a number of scandals weve covered the last four years that havent really stuck to the president in terms of his base because they were hard to understand or distance from Everyday Americans lives whether its the Mueller Probe or ukraine and the impeachment. That was something the average american didnt follow or care about saying it doesnt change my daytoday existence. But what americans do understand is how much they pay in taxes and pay most of them far more than 750 a year in federal income taxes including the White Working Class voters in the states that the president cant win without. Theres no spinning these numbers, theres no difficult polls for President Trump who is trying to put together, again, a path to 270 Electoral College votes. Theyre the campaigns theory of the case all along was the three states along the great lakes, pennsylvania, wisconsin, and michigan, they needed to hold the rest of their math and win one of those three. Michigan was seen as the longest shot and this poll reinforces the president hasnt been close most of this year. Their play was wisconsin but theyve stayed away. This is one of the biggest deficits he faces even after kenosha, the play to law and order, that hasnt worked and he has not been able to close that gap. And if he cant win wisconsin and arizona slips away. Hes in even more trouble. If he loses arizona, wisconsin is not enough to make 270. The state that is, pennsylvania. We took a deep dive this weekend looking at that, how the president is putting on a fullcourt press in pennsylvania. He was there twice last week. We havent seen new polling today from pennsylvania but he has faced deficits as well. Smaller than wisconsin but deficits in joe bidens native state, a tough state to win though a state both campaigns feel may be the Electoral College Tipping Point this time around. Im wondering, reverend al, if you are a construction worker in philly, a waitress in Lancaster County, if youre a schoolteacher in scranton and youre looking up at the news today and youre finding out that youve paid more in federal income taxes than a guy thats lived in a gold plated 90 Story Building and flown around the world in private jets, and probably illegally deducted taxes, not a really great message for the final month or so of the campaign. I mean, that is that is something that voters can understand. A guy working at walmart saying i paid more than 750 in taxes last year. And trump and amazon paid zero in income taxes. Its just not right. Thats, again, for a guy thats already really struggling with working class voters, the timing of this piece is just i would think would be pretty negative for donald trump . The timing would be pretty negative, clearly. And i think it speaks to the core of what the problem politically is going to be for the president. This was his brand. He sold himself to americans as this successful businessman that knew how to manage his businesses therefore he could manage the country. Now we find that is totally untrue and we look at covid19 and know how he managed the country was clearly lacking. One of the things that i looked at when i looked at the New York Times story. Im someone with tax problems, the right wing blasted me for it. Many of my friends, including you joe, said if you messed up, correct it and own it and go forward. I did. I want the right wing to hold him to the same standards that they did to me and others on the left with tax problems. That wasnt our brand. Our brand was social activism. His only brand was he was this great billionaire that can make magic happen in the sky. We find out when we look behind the curtain the wizard of oz had no clothes and only a 750 check for the u. S. Government. Lets look at whats happening politically now to the senate polling, which shows some democratic challengers giving republican incumbents a run for their money. In North Carolina democrat Cal Cunningham holds a ten point lead over thom tillis, 48 to 38 . In maine democrat sarah gidens leads Susan Collins by four. Thats looking close. In South Carolina, incumbent Lindsey Graham is statistically tied with democratic challenger Jaime Harrison, 45 to 44 . He was on fox all day friday saying help me. Help me i need money. And he just showed up all day on fox begging for money. In georgia, incumbent david purdue holds a 5 point lead over democratic challenger john osoff 47 to 42 . Kasie hunt, what races stand out to you the most and could these be consequential changes . They could be. The one that stands out the most there is that North Carolina race. If we put that number back up on the screen, this is stunning for an incumbent. 38 . If youre at 38 and youre an incumbent, that is a huge problem. More than any other race on the map, i think this one is a generic ballot test. Tom ti thom tillis hasnt its a race thats a pure reflection of d versus r with no candidate having a huge advantage in personality or any issue over another. You dont want to be there if you are thom tillis, that is a terrible number. On the flip side, that michigan number is also something ive been hearing from republican sources that they are keeping an eye there because that number is closer than we anticipated it might be. You see gary peters slightly under 50 . A potential trouble spot for democrats there. When you bring the Lindsey Graham number in. We talked about this last week. Republicans we saw this in 2014 when democrats could not overcome president obamas Approval Rating and there was a sweep across the map. If this is a true reflection of where things stand in South Carolina, republicans are going to have a problem holding onto the senate. It is just just stunning. And, you know, joe, i just im sorry go ahead. No, you go ahead. I was just going to pick up on your conversation about these tax returns in this context and also as i was sitting here listening to you talk about it. I went to go find joe bidens tax return, theyre on his website in a neatly ordered list. In 2016, when obviously he and barack obama were serving and he was making the salary thats afforded to the Vice President , he paid 92,198 in taxes and got a 1,031 refund. Thats how this was supposed to look. He was not before he left office a rich man and somebody who did well. You have a high salary as a government official. But just to contrast that night and day, talking about normal people who pay taxes, one of the things that makes this such a problem for trump is that joe biden comes across like a working class guy, people believe thats who he is. They obviously didnt believe that about Hillary Clinton. So that compounds the problem that donald trump is facing here. Boy that contrast is great. Exactly. And im sure its something were going to be hearing about in the debate tomorrow night. Steve kornacki, though, weve talked about the industrial midwest. Weve talked about the sun belt, florida and arizona, those two states still up for grabs depending on whether joe biden can turn out hispanic latino voters more successfully than he is right now and actually take both of those states. But lets talk about the solid south for a moment. Other than barack obama winning North Carolina in 2008, i believe it was. Its been the solid south since, my gosh, the early 70s at least. Think about i mean, think about weve got thom tillis in North Carolina at 38 . That would be more shocking if he hadnt been mired in the 30s for most of his term. But losing by ten points in North Carolina. Drive south down 85 and you get to South Carolina and Lindsey Graham, in the reddest of red states, is tied with Jaime Harrison and is frantically going on tv practically in tears begging people for money. Then you keep going down, driving south from greenville, you know, on 85 past athens into atlanta and youre into georgia. And whats happening in the state of georgia . Another president ial poll like so many over the past couple months that still shows georgia in a dead heat. That is just that is a Political Revolution of sorts. We are either seeing a lot of false positives or were actually seeing something dramatic changing. And im not talking about the Georgia Senate race. I was talking about donald trump being deadlocked in with joe biden in georgia and its been that way for a couple months. Its a bit of a different story that were talking about with the north. The interesting thing to me is weve seen a number polls where trump is leading solidly still in South Carolina and graham is tied. Ive seen him down a point. I dont want to overstate this, but it could be significant. There is a small share of voters in South Carolina who appear to be trump Jaime Harrison voters. Voters willing to relekt donald trump but not ready or willing to vote Lindsey Graham to the senate. And theyre telling pollsters theyll elect jamie shaime harr along with President Trump. Its a small but could be Significant Group of voters. I think the story in georgia is more of demographic change and the transformation of the suburbs. You have two forces here changing democratic forces. Number one, its an influx of registration effect with africanamerican voters in the atlanta area in particular. Thats been a factor at work for a while. And then the suburbs you have suburbs just moving rapidly and dramatically in the democrats direction away from the republicans. Democrats already flipped one house seat there in the atlanta area in 2018, came within a whisker of getting the other. Theres Growth Potential in georgia fitting in with the 2018 story weve been talking about for a while. All right. Well, the New York Times yesterday began publishing the series of reports that examine 20 years of the president s tax returns revealing financial losses in the millions and an audit battle of a tax refund and payment of almost no federal income tax. The times reports for 2016 and again in 2017 President Trump paid 750 in federal income tax. Let me repeat that, 750 bucks. For ten of the previous 15 years he paid zero. Nothing at all. Because he reported losses that eliminated his tax liability. The paper does not have records for 2018 and 2019. Now according to the times, ultimately mr. Trump has been more successful playing a business mogul than being one in real life. The apprentice along with the licensing and endorsement deals that flowed from his expanding celebrity brought mr. Trump a total of more than 427 million. Thats a lot of money. He invested much of that in a collection of businesses, mostly golf courses, that in the years since have steadily devoured cash. Also hanging over him is a decadelong audit battle with the Internal Revenue service over the legitimacy of a 72. 9 million tax refund that he claimed, and received after declaring huge losses. The president has received more money while in office from foreign interests than previously known, and that hundreds of millions in personally backed loans come due in the near future. How is he going to pay those . While the times reported that trump did not pay income taxes for several years, he did pay other forms of federal taxes, including medicare, Social Security and the alternative minimum tax. In a statement to nbc news, the Trump Organization lawyer claimed that the story was riddled with gross inaccuracies over the past decade, the president has paid tens of millions of dollars in personal taxes to the federal government he said in part. Nbc news has not independently verified the documents, but the times reports it obtained them from sources with legal access to the material. According to the paper, additional reports will be released in the coming weeks. What you did not hear Donald Trumps lawyer say is that donald trump paid millions of dollars in personal income taxes because he didnt. Thats a carefully worded statement. He paid 750 does one or two years, paid zero ten out of the the past 15 years. And probably lost more money over the past 20, 30, 40 years than any other single american. The New York Times said that, actually, certainly during the 80s and into the early 90s, i would love to know if thats still the truth for this time period. But Michael Schmidt give me your takeaways from your papers blockbuster story. The work of my colleagues here is pretty remarkable and the times has invested an enormous amount of money and time itself to go after this. Now going somewhere that we certainly didnt see in the mueller investigation. We didnt see in any of these congressional investigations. So unearthing things here that have been this great mystery for the president. As you guys were laying out and the times has this in stark terms. The president at a basic level not the business person he says he is. Doesnt have the money he says he has. The cash on hand that he says he has. Has far more losses. Spends a lot of time using those losses to help him in his own taxes. So at a basic level, sort of the premises of the president coming under assault from these things. The second thing is the amount of money hes taken from foreign governments and that money, whether it came from the philippines or turkey is greater than the amount of money hes taken say from his salary as president. Taking more money from Foreign Countries than hes taking from his own country as president. Theres a reason why, whether its the counterintelligence world, or whether it is just the sort of Business Ethics world or traditional way that people in the government are supposed to function that you dont want people in government taking so much money from Foreign Countries. And sort of the influence that can have on someone that gets to the third and probably most important part of the story. And thats the vulnerable position that the president finds himself in financially. He has this 70, 80 million or so dispute with the irs about whether hes going to have to pay back this money that he took as a refund from them. A refund that some would say is questionable. And he still has this dispute with the irs. Remember, hes the president , he can control whos in charge of the irs. Its not entirely clear to me how that would be resolved but he could be on the hook for that. At the same time hes on the hook for that, he looks like hes on the hook for 400 million in loans that its not really clear how he would pay those back either. So this entire picture, the president is moving himself, as a business man, in towards a very vulnerable place where his own irs could come calling for a lot of money that he may not have. Jonathan lemire, thats obviously what a lot of people have been investigating through the years, is he perhaps as kind as he is to Vladimir Putin, as deferential to Vladimir Putin, kowtowing in the presence of Vladimir Putin in helsinki after for instance you asked the question you asked him and he bowed and scraped in front of Vladimir Putin, why is he acting the way he is towards turkey, the philippines. Were seeing now hes getting more money from countries like turkey and the philippines than he is from the American People in his salary. But youve been looking at this for years, studying it for your years whats your takeaway from the reporting you read over the last 24 hours . Michael hit on a number of the key points. To zero in on that last one, about the idea of the foreign investment, if you will, in President Trump. That is why so Many Democrats last night in their initial reaction to the story were framing it as a National Security matter. A National Security threat. Though the story does not indicate, says so far the tax returns dont show any further unknown investment from russia, certainly we are seeing influence of foreign governments here in terms of money with the president and is that shaming his Foreign Policy decisions and performance. Thats something thats going to require extraordinary scrutiny for the rest of his time in office. And also the loan, the money coming due many of them before the end of his second term. Thats another matter that requires extraordinary diligence to see who does, in fact, he owe that money. Whether foreign or domestic, how does that impact his daytoday operations in the white house . And then politically, joe, going back to how we opened this conversation. This changes the idea how hes perceived among americans, potentially even some of his supporters. Youre right. Some wont care. Some will say were with the president. Some will believe his explanation. Some will say, this is fake news. Some will say he outsmarted the government, thats my guy. But i think with the working class voters this is going to hit home and hit home hard and cost him support at the worst time. Two days before the first general election day. Theres a difference between tax avoidance and tax evasion. Right now, Michael Schmidt your book donald trump versus the United States, you go into detail about those battles but we may have a battle now between the United States government and donald trump on this tax refund that they may claw back against that could actually tip him over if you look at these numbers, could actually tip his financial situation over where we may have a president or a former president who has to personally declare bankruptcy. And that, to me, was the most intriguing part of all of this. Is that the president has a dispute with the irs and the president is in charge of the executive branch. At the most fundamental level of all the conflicts that donald trump has had. All the fights he has had. The fact that he is president this may sound a bit simplistic, is the reason hes been able to survive so many of these different things. Whether it was the pressure he put on his own Justice Department during these investigations, his demand for loyalists in these positions over decision around him who could impact him. The fact that hes president has such a baring on these things. And now hes standing with this dispute with the irs. And if theres anything we know about donald trump, its simply the motivation of money. A loot of things he does are hard to understand and explain, but money is the most salient thing with him. But now here he is potentially coming into the end of his presidency and having to resolve that. How is that going to be dealt with . Why is it we dont know more about that . It just seems to cut to the heart of what the presidency is and what potential conflict of interest is. But once again, donald trump testing the system, testing us in a way that if we sat here we could not have drawn up on a white board. Well, it might cut to the heart of whats ailing this presidency, because everything thats driving him could be explained or at least partially explained by what were finding in these returns. Even his sort of scrambling to hold onto the presidency because leaving the presidency might not be a pretty picture for donald trump. It will not be a pretty picture. Still ahead on morning joe, Democrats Use health care to fight against the president S Supreme Court nominee. Well have the latest in that battle. First the Supreme Court, now congress. The president continues to muse about unconventional ways to secure another term in a disputed election. Interesting. Youre watching morning joe. Well be right back. Ing mornin well be right back. My nunormal fewer asthma attacks. Less oral steroids. Taking my treatment at home. Nucala is a oncemonthly addon injection for severe eosinophilic asthma. Not for sudden breathing problems. Allergic reactions can occur. Get help right away for swelling of face, mouth, tongue, or trouble breathing. Infections that can cause shingles have occurred. Dont stop steroids unless told by your doctor. Tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection. May cause headache, injection site reactions, back pain, and fatigue. Ask your doctor about nucala at home. Find your nunormal with nucala. Whatintroducing the new sleepld . Number 360 smart bed. Ask your doctor about n cala at home. Now temperature balancing, so you can sleep better together. Can it help keep me asleep . Absolutely, it intelligently senses your movements and automatically adjusts to keep you both effortlessly comfortable. Can it help with snoring . Ive never heard snoring. Exactly. No problem. And done. So you can really promise better sleep . Not promise. Prove save up to 1,000 on the new sleep number 360 smart bed and adjustable base. Plus, 0 interest for 24 months free delivery. Ends monday. Floridas bars and restaurants reopened with no restrictions on friday, following an announcement by governor ron desantis. His order prohibits local governments from issuing restrictions to businesses, unless they can justify the economic cost. Bars are now able to operate at full capacity. Wow. Having been opened at 50 capacity since september 10th. Though desantis did not address other businesses during the announcement, many gyms, hair salons and other Service Industries were already operating at full capacity. According to nbc news the up tick in cases during the months of july and august prompted the governor to close bars and restrict restaurants to takeout only but he has slowly reopened the state for business even as the virus continues to decimate the u. S. On friday the same day of reopening announcement, florida reported more than 2,500 new infections. Thats a lot. Doesnt seem to make a lot of sense. More than 1,000 new yorkers tested positive for coronavirus on friday, the First Time Since june 5th the infection rate reached 1 . New york citys Health Department said in some neighborhoods 19 is spreading at an alarming rate and the city should consider shutting down private schools and nonessential businesses in these areas. In some parts of the city the infection rate topped more than 6 . New york citys Public Schools are set for inperson instruction this week. In the spring, before it got warm, you had a lot of places across the north especially that had problems because more of those residents were inside. In the summer months when donald trump said this was going to magically go away, you suddenly saw an outbreak from florida to arizona because it was getting hot, a lot of people were coming inside. Here now as we go into the fall and flu season starts up, a lot of people have been concerned about this, new yorkers and others in the northeast and across the northern states are going to be going back inside again en masse and its just going to cause, again, probably going to cause real concerns. One more story here. Former Trump Campaign manager Brad Parscale is in the hospital after threatening to selfharm. Fort Lauderdale Police arrived at his home after his wife said he had multiple fire arms and he was threatening to selfharm himself. Officials were able to talk him out of the house and transport him to broward medical hospital. The Trump Campaign wrote a statement saying Brad Parscale is a member of our family and we all love him. We are ready to support him and his family in any way possible. Jonathan lemire, im sure you have had dealings with brad before, we have, and, of course, at times the dealings have been tough going back and forth, but a really sad story. Weve now seen this a few times with some people in Donald Trumps inner circle that, you know, trump is used to the glare and the fighting and the back and forth, all these tabloid wars. But its really hard for people to understand the glare that anybody in washington d. C. Goes through. But youve seen caputo having some challenges in this atmosphere and now brad again, somebody weve known for a while, and again our hearts and prayers are going out for him in this terrible struggle, and his family. But it has been a very tough few months for brad, hasnt it . It has, and first and foremost thoughts and prayers for him and his family and hope hes okay. Glad the matter resolved yesterday without anyone being hurt. Brad parscale was the Campaign Manager for the 2016 run and part of this one as well. Hes 68 with a noticeable beard and fans and rally goers were drawn to him, and he was well liked by staff, including senior members of the staff. But he had a falling out with the president over the summer, in particular after the tulsa rally that ended up being 6,000 people there and the president stared into a sea of empty seats and he was demoted soon thereafter. He himself was the center of an ad campaign an antitrump ad campaign suggesting that he was profiting off the trump name. So this can be the stroocrutiny spotlight can be tough on any campaign adviser, particularly one that Brad Parscale was an anonymous digital guy a few years ago. We hope hes okay. Joining us the chief justice of the florida Supreme Court, chief wells. He presided over the 2000 election and desceissented over majority count. He recently penned an oped saying that President Trumps threat not to accept the outcome of the election is a grave and real threat to our democracy. Judge wells, ill start there. If you can expound upon that. Why are those words so dangerous . I appreciate this opportunity, mika to do that. First with all the sad news, especially about Brad Parscale and here in florida, the pandemic, im following the advice of long ago, that is i turn to the sports news first when i pick up the paper. A great thing thats going on here in florida with the heat in the playoffs doing well, with the rays doing superb and with joe and my florida gators, a quarterback throw six touchdown passes on saturday. But let me get to my concern. My concern is, coming out of my experience in 2000, i came from that with the recognition that it is imperative that our citizens have confidence in our electoral system. And i am very concerned at the comments that President Trump is manafort and gat making about the election being rigged and fraud in mailin ballots and without any evidence attacking the very foundation of our election system. And we have got to cling to the fact that we have a Representative Democracy in which power is only temporarily bestowed on a leader. And we have to have confidence that when the citizens of this country vote to pass that power to another leader, that were all going to participate in that, especially the person that the power is being passed from. That was our experience in 2000 here in florida. We never had a doubt, throughout the 36 days of bush v gore that both then governor bush and Vice President gore were acting in good faith and were going to accept the result. And thats what has to happen in our democracy. So that statement, very disappointing and very much of concern. But were going to have an election and weve never had any fraud in florida. I noted in my decision in 2000 that we didnt have fraud in that election. We had mechanical mistakes, punch card ballots, a slew of things that should have been fixed and which now have been fixed in our election. But that is what my concern is. Former Justice Charles wells, thank you very, very much. Were going to turn now to al sharptons book, rise up, confronting a country at the cross roads, which is out tomorrow. We are obviously in a time that is the mosty mul since 196. Talk about rise up, talk about what you get to at the heart of this book and what 2020 has meant and how history is going to look back at this moment in american history. I wrote rise up and i had to keep extending it, so many things were happening, to talk about how this year youre right is like 1968 where we are at a cross roads. Voting rights, lgbtq rights, voting rights, womens rights, climate change, i write all of this is at risk from the progress we made in these areas and certainly race, and all of this has come to the forefront, the George Floyd Movement and all the things weve taken for granted the last several years, now we have to decide which road to take. I take on those that have tried to reverse things in all of those areas and i take on the latte liberals, who sit high, look low and have not tried to engage to make the country work because they come too purist on one side as we fight those too unreasonable on the others. So this book spares no one and says we have to make a decision, and we have to have an intersectional Movement Across party lines, across Sexual Orientation and gender lines. We have to rise up together and save the last half century of progress this country has made. We have to rise up together. This is not just about race but is race at the center but its ant all these areas that if we dont come together well end up going backwards into an america we fought to get out of. I hope everyone gets the book. Youve been warning about latte liberals for quite some time. I find 2020 fascinating in your conversation, actually what youve been saying for years was predicted. You basically predicted whats happened in this president ial race. Joe biden getting absolutely smashed in iowa, absolutely smashed in new hampshire, and then coming down to South Carolina. All the pundits had basically dismissed biden said he was going to be gone. And then black voters in South Carolina, especially black women in South Carolina, especially across the deep state, said not so fast and voted for joe biden in overwhelming numbers. It reminds me so much of what you and i have been talking about of whats happening from new york city to seattle, where you have black legislators, black leaders, saying to these socalled latte liberals in gentrified neighborhoods, wait a second. You want to defund the police do it in your neighborhoods. We need Police Officers. We need safety officers in our childrens schools. We need Police Officers on the street to make sure that our kids can walk to schools safely. We dont want to defund the police. We dont want less police. We want more police. We just want policing reformed. We want policing reformed. We want the resources to be distributed right. But we do not want to open up our communities to this danger where gun manufacturers make all this money and our kids are shooting each other. I take it on in the book because i want people to stop speaking for us that dont speak to us on one side and the others wont hear us at all. So i wanted to say at this moment we need to really sit down and deal with all of this and put it in writing. The book comes out tomorrow. Im doing a series every night virtual virtually, im doing one with pete buttigieg, Martin Luther king iii, and on and on. Where we talk about all the aspects of this country that we have to see the battle for lgbtq rights, racial reform and equality, police reform, that we have to see the end of the road on all of this. And we cant let the latte liberals on one side or the inflexible right wingers on the other guide this country to something thats going to be destructive. What does that mean if joe biden does win the election as many polls are suggesting that we will. Whats the first step you want to see from him and his administration to try to make sure the country is headed in the direction you are laying out in your book. He must reserve associavotin. Make sure voting is available to everyone. He has to also give the criminal Justice System if joe biden wins ill be the first one the first day to hold him accountable. But at least you can hold joe biden accountable. I think we must be about what we want to see happen rather than who we want to see in the seat. Its about what we want in a presidency and then back into who should be president. Not who we want as president and then let them back us into who and what the president should be about. Its about the what, not the who and i expect the what to be something we hold joe biden accountable to. Something that donald trump hasnt been able to rise to that occasion. The book is rise up. Reverend al thank you. Well run through another section of the book tomorrow and every day this week. Kasie hunt, thank you as well. It is the top of the hour on this monday, Jonathan Lemire is still with us. And joining the conversation editor of the new Yorker David Remnick and political reporter for the Washington Post, robert costa. He is the moderator of Washington Week on pbs. We want to start this hour off with the new battleground state polling showing joe biden up over President Trump in several key states 36 days before the election. In maine, the latest Colby College poll shows biden with an 11 point lead, 50 to 39 . In wisconsin, the nbc news poll, shows biden up 54 to 44 . In michigan the same poll gives biden an 8 point lead 52, 44. Minnesota, usa today has biden up 47 to 42 . The star tribute poll has biden up by 6 in minnesota, 48 to 42 . In North Carolina, the lathest cbs news poll finds biden and trump in a statistical tie, 48 to 46 . In georgia, the same poll shows another statistical tie, trump 47, biden 46. And in South Carolina, the cbs news yougov poll shows President Trump holding a 10 point lead, 52 to 42 . Bob costa, weve been looking at wisconsin closely the last three, four years after donald trump surprisingly won it in 2016 and people were saying of wisconsin what tim russert said of florida it was wisconsin, wisconsin. Since kenosha, the polls have been six, seven, eight, nine, ten points, steadily going into the biden category, something unforeseen by the Trump Campaign. But Steve Kornacki last hour when he was on talked about why thats happening. Donald trump won blue collar working class white voters by plus 30 points in 2016. That lead now, not only in these polls but in many polls down to Single Digits. So this magic touch that donald trump seemed to have with obama, obama, trump voters, seems to have gone away. At least with one month to go. Joe to take the phrasing of tim russert, florida, florida, florida, that was 2020, health care, health care, health care. If you listened to Vice President biden on sunday he gave a speech, took questions from reporters after, but he did not get distracted on questions, the speech was about threats to the Affordable Care act and President Trumps handling of the pandemic. So if you wonder why is georgia so close, all these other states so close, including wisconsin, you see from the democratic nominee, not exactly a flashy campaign, not a campaign out making headlines, not engaging with the press enough, all of that is clear but they are focused on Health Care Just a day before this debate and that appears to be resonating with many of the voters across the south, across the industrial midwest and a different kind of campaign than weve seen from previous foils for President Trump. And georgia is too close for comfort for donald trump. North carolina obviously too close for comfort for donald trump. You had joe biden ahead in those two states. In South Carolina you have Lindsey Graham fighting for his political life. Well show that in a second. But as the talk of the new Supreme Court justice pick came just minutes, unfortunately, after Ruth Bader Ginsburgs death, of course, the focus turned immediately to abortion. Thats, right now if you believe the Kaiser Family poll from Foundation Poll from earlier this year, the polls from this past weekend, thats almost a two to one issue as far as people not wanting roe to be overturned. But what may have more of an impact with the few swing voters left is health care. Its interesting, weve always thought that this battle, this final battle would be over row v wade, it looks like its going to be over the Affordable Care act and on the Affordable Care act it looks like donald trump is under water again on a 2 to 1 margin. Health care is an issue in the most intense form when . When a pandemic is running out of control. When a president of the United States has proved himself to be completely uncaring about the health of his own nation. And i think, you know, that the look, nobody can get ahead of themselves. Weve been here before on polls. Those of us who remember very keenly what happened in 16ds are not going to jump and say this is over by any means, no matter how desperate the president of the United States seems. When i read the New York Times piece last night, a brilliant piece of Investigative Journalism about the president s taxes, or lack of taxes, after i absorbed the report, the first question i had and the question i have for you joe, how much does it get absorbed . How much do people in western pennsylvania, suburbs of milwaukee, how much do these repeated bombshells of information about the bad character and the bad actions of donald trump get absorbed and how much do they affect things . Its brilliant journalism. I think after reading that piece last night. When its boiled down to Something Like 750 paid for a year in his first year in office, 10 years of 15, not paying any tax it es whatsoever. An article that makes it clear the president s business is an enormous grift. Were not going to know until election day if it says things. No debate, no one news story is going to be decisive. Mika, i do think, when you look at the numbers again, with White Working Class voters, blue collar voters that voted for donald trump in such overwhelming numbers but have been moving away from him consistently, the area he targeted, the area hes been playing to now for four years, just almost like hes put blinders on yeah. When it comes to any other segmental of the population. These are the people who will be o o offended the most. The most. If you have a waitress in Lancaster County who pays more than 750 a year in federal income tax. A construction worker in scranton, pennsylvania that pays more than 750. Theyre going to say, heres a guy that lives in in the white house, been living his entire life in this 90story gold plated building, flies around in a helicopter, a jumbo jet and i cant pay to change my tires because im struggling so much with this economy . Ive got to get a second job and donald trump is paying less in taxes than me. Im sorry, 750. That hurts. That does resonate. Its also four years ago he talked about being able to avoid paying taxes legally. Dealing with the tax laws. Being so brilliant he could figure out how to pay a lower tax rate. This is not just avoiding. What is being seen in this reporting is avoiding, evading, perhaps robbing and cheating, well see. But it doesnt look good. Its one thing. Amazon pays zero in taxes. Thats a real problem. We have to reform our tax code sure. Its broken. But in Donald Trumps case, you read the New York Times investigation its not legal tax avoidance, it look like its moving to tax evasion. And also shows, as david said, Donald Trumps presidency is a lie. Not only is he not a Good Business person, hes one of the worst Business People in modern america people. You look at the numbers that the irs has put out there in the past, you look at documents, federal documents, this guy, one of the worst Business People in modern american history. He didnt have much to say about it yesterday. Didnt want to talk about it. Lets bring in news correspondent yamiche alcindor. Whats the reaction inside the white house . What are they saying . Theres anger and also this sort of lets all push this aside and avoid it. If you listen to what President Trump said yesterday during his briefing, he really lashed out at the New York Times and the idea this is fake news. This is all made up, false. But when he was posed a specific question, how much taxes do you actually pay and is it more than a couple hundred dollars, 750 over two years, 750 twice, is it more than that . He stumbled and mumbled and didnt answer the question. Which is, is it true that you are this billionaire who is evading tax taxes. So he continues to say hes under audit, cannot talk about his tacks. Once hes done under audit hell present them. I think the line in this the New York Times story what this mean, apart from as you say the evadining and the possibly breaking of laws, they said ultimately President Trump may be better and more successful playing a media mogul than being one. That stopped me dead in my tracks it tells us he sold the idea of himself as a business man, successful person. He was fighting so hard to be reelected not only to be reelected but also because if hes not, he could face jail time and be carried off like a lot of his personal associates like his former personal lawyer and so on. One thing your guest said, which im thinking about as a reporter, how much will it matter . Will people who pay much more in taxes, waitresses and blue collar people, firefighters and teachers, are they going to Pay Attention to the story and thats a question we might not know the answer for until november. Lets get to new polling thats showing some democratic challengers giving republican incumbents a run for their money. In North Carolina Cal Cunningham holds a lead over thom tillis, 48 to 38 . In maine, softwaarah gideon lea Susan Collins by 4. In South Carolina, Lindsey Graham is statistically tied with Jaime Harrison, 45 to 44 . In georgia, incumbent david purdue holds a 5 point lead over democratic challenger john ossoff, 47 to 42. And in michigan, gary peters holds a five point lead over challenger john james, 49 to 44 . Bosch costa, obviously the North Carolina race stands out, ten points. A republican incumbent in the 30s for quite some time, early voting been going on in North Carolina for quite some time. So if these polls are accurate, thats obviously bad news for thom tillis and then, of course, you go down to South Carolina and you have Lindsey Graham who has been playing starving tell advantage list, hes done everything except going to the top of the tower saying hes not going to come down until he gets 3 million from people of faith. Hes basically done that on fox news begging for money. He obviously knows hes in trouble. But when you have republican senators endangered in South Carolina, North Carolina, one month out, thats lining up to be a heck of a battle on november 3rd. We are seeing it real time, an evolution of the politics in the south. Joe you know the south as well as anyone, representing the Florida Panhandle but the south isnt what it was ten, 20 years ago. You go to place like atlanta or charlotte and youre sighing the demographics changing, young people, black americans, asianamericans, latino americans, this is a new kind of south. People are moving to the south because of the cost of living from different parts of the country. You see from senator tillis and graham significant challenges and even senator purdue in georgia running against a candidate a couple months ago seen in these races as embracing President Trump, not enough to carry you across the finish line. In some cases it might be but their strategy has been use the president s Political Capital to win. But the strategy just weeks before the election being tested. You no knknow, jonathan lemi look at the state of georgia. Its a state that people have talked about going blue eventually, turning more purple. I know you talked about the diversification of georgia. I was born in dorville, georgia in 1963 and spent my time in a neighborhood that look like the wonder years, very white, and when i went back to visit my home even in the 90s, it was extraordinarily diverse, it has changed dramatically and yet, Donald Trumps message has been playing to, actually, my parents from 1961 or 1962 or 1963, talking about, your Great Suburban life. He is a man out of time and you look at the georgia polls and you look at polls in other areas and it looks like time is catching up with donald trump. Thats right, joe. He is seemingly out of step with where much of the south is going right now. Georgia as you know, democrats have had their eyes on for a while. They saw virginia transform into what was a red state, into a true battleground and now a consistent blue state thats not really up for grabs either party things. The transformation of North Carolina which was a republican strong hold now the definition of a battleground, one that president obama won once right now polls show tight and if they continue to move down south, georgia would be next on the list, in terms of the sprawl of atlanta, the changing suburbs there. And the president had to make a stop in georgia last week for a Campaign Event the more time he has to play defense in places like georgia or other states he won in 2016, is a real problem now. He had to visit ohio which he won by 9 in 2016. Iowa, texas. And if these are places the president needs to be now. Each trip to georgia is a fewer trip he can make to pennsylvania, wisconsin or florida. And i think that is something that the Trump Campaign is concerned about. Their latest wave of ads spending, three states were wons that Hillary Clinton won in 2016, the other 12 or so are places that he won last time around, needing to play defense. Joe, i want to get your take on this. We talked with Steve Kornacki in the last hour about the seeming surprise. Maybe split ticket voters in South Carolina, those backing President Trump but may be moving away from Lindsey Graham and moving towards Jaime Harrison, the challenger. But look at North Carolina, we talk about thom tillis and the deficit he seems to be facing but the president ial polls sho s a tighter right there but what about michigan, the president. Are we seeing split ticket voting which had been phased out in previous cycles might be coming back . Im skeptical. I really ampy only skeptical of that dramatic of a swing and split ticket voting. I think what it may suggest is that the michigan race for the presidency is much closer than we think it is. And in North Carolina i think those polls that show a ten point margin show that actually there may be a little more separation between donald trump and joe biden in North Carolina. Who knows, and that South Carolina may be a little tighter on the president ial level. But you do have three races. Those three races in particular that are showing possibly the return of split ticket voting. I cant speak to senator peters and how he is with rank and file democrats. I do know that thom tillis and Lindsey Graham have never been trusted by rank and file republicans. What you may be seeing there, especially with Lindsey Graham who said some of the most harsh things about donald trump as anybody on the National Stage before quickly flipping over to becoming one of his most just ill just say one of his most loyal followers is you may be seeing disgust from people across the electorate. David, i want to ask you about the endorsement of joe biden for the new yorker. You and i talked about the column you penned a few hours after donald trump got elected. Im curious through these tragic years what you wrote that night was very stark and accurate. Im wondering, though, have you found yourselves, at times, surprised by how bad it has gotten . Has it actually been worse than you expected . Well, it took specific shape. In other words, i think we could have an tticipated by the president s own words and actions that he had no great affecti affection for or attachment to the rule of law. I think we knew he was a bigot. We knew he was far friendlier with foreign autocrats than allies. We could see that coming. Unfortunately to our pain we couldnt see a pandemic coming. We couldnt see so much else coming. So the reality this all took led to a reckoning. I think thats what youre seeing reflected in the polls, the reckoning of the last six months, first of the pandemic, then george floyd, then breonna taylor. This was an xray of our society. And it exposed not only a president whose activities one could describe as either criminal or dishonest or cynical, all the adjectives that we can spin out and that are accurate. But also a society that in many ways is broken. And a society that we people have described american exceptionalism and suddenly american exceptionalism is a negative term. Where our performance on the pandemic is horribly worse than a place like germany and other societies, why is that . In the new yorkers endorsement, i dont think we surprised anybody by endorsing joe biden as opposed to donald trump. But it takes different shape this endorsement. We had five writers with really specialties with race, in the law, in medicine, and we had them describe what it is that a biden presidency, should it come to pass and we dont know yet, should it come to pass, needs to happen to take action. I think we realized we were in a position as in 1933 when Franklin Roosevelt came to office that a reconning is happening in terms of the law, in terms of ourselves, an Environmental Crisis of the scale the globe is facing cannot be dealt with with pronouncements, it cant be a compromise thats no solution. We need real action for our survival of our planet and for the survival of the constitutional democracy that we cherished so deeply. And without that, we are in deeper and deeper trouble. So, david, let me ask you again well have time for a post mortem after the election regardless of who wins or loses, im wondering when you talk about the reckoning, weve had a racial reckoning, an economic reckoning, a reckoning over science and the continued denial of science and medicine. Im curious as you look back over the four years and look at the institutions and look at those that actually like, for instance, it seems every night when it seems there is another court that has stopped donald trump dead in his tracks and its not always democratically appointed judges. Last night it was over tiktok but you can say the same thing over hundreds of other things. The racial situation and the racial reckoning, you look at one poll after another and it seems that, actually, the racism that americans have seen in their president , at one point a majority of americans considered donald trump to be a racist president. That was in a poll. Americans actually seem to be more attuned to the racial problems that this country has had. And that their own feelings on race have evolved over the past four years because of the ugliness that donald trump has brought to the forefront. Do you see some of those developments, and do you think that we can get out of this actually being able to face those reckonings with our eyes open and be able to move forward faster . I not only think we can, im told we can. Were told despair is the unforgivable sin, and i believe that. I know how closely people have come to the brink of despair whether its because of the lack of racial justice, Economic Justice and all the many reasons one can have for despair, not only the last six months but in the longer period of time. I think what the last four years has shown is our institutions so often, whether its the press, our civic institutions, demonstrators on the street, and so much more, American People are capable of standing up even against this. Even against an elected president who, in the end, is an authoritarian. David remnick, thank you so much. And bob costa thank you as well. Still ahead on morning joe, democrats have landed on a strategy to fight back against the president S Supreme Court nominee. Reminding voters whats at stake. Namely, health care. Well talk to a member of the Senate Judiciary committee, democrat mazie hirono. Youre watching morning joe well be right back. Youre watching morning joe well be right back. Tired of overpaying for your prescriptions . Try optum perks. Its a new way to save up to 80 . And everyone can do it. Its from optum, a Health Care Company thats trusted by millions of people. You dont have to sign up for anything. Just go to optumperks. Com. And get a coupon to use at your pharmacy. Thats it. I opted in. I opted in. You can, too. Opt in and save big today. Thats why ive got the power of 1,2,3 medicines with trelegy. The only fdaapproved, oncedaily 3 in 1 copd treatment. With trelegy and the power of 1, 2, 3, im breathing better. Trelegy works 3 ways to open airways, keep them open, and reduce inflammation for 24 hours of better breathing. Trelegy wont replace a rescue inhaler for sudden breathing problems. Trelegy is not for asthma. Tell your doctor if you have a heart condition or high Blood Pressure before taking it. Do not take trelegy more than prescribed. Trelegy may increase your risk of thrush, pneumonia, and osteoporosis. Call your doctor if worsened breathing, chest pain, mouth or tongue swelling, problems urinating, vision changes, or eye pain occur. Think your copd medicine is doing enough . Maybe you should think again. Ask your doctor about oncedaily trelegy. We know times are hard and were here for you. Find support at trelegy. Com. However, there is one thing you can be certain of. The men and woman of the United States postal service. We are here to deliver your cards, packages and prescriptions. And also deliver the peace of mind knowing that whats important to youlike your ballotis on its way. Every day, all across america, we deliver for you. And we always will. To replace her with amy k Coney Barrett is so wrong. Her record also makes clear if shes confirmed that womens reproductive freedom will be at risk, roe v wade itself will be at risk. If shes on the court im afraid itll be eliminated. Joining us member of the judiciary and Armed Services committees, mazie hirono who said she will not meet with amy Coney Barrett. Im curious, why not meet with amy Coney Barrett . Why not try to understand her, know her, see how her views are evol evolving . Why not meet . Ill have ample opportunity when she comes before the committee to question her, so thats what im going to do. Why wouldnt you meet with her . It was galling, i thought, when republicans wouldnt even meet with merrick garland. Shouldnt senators sit down and have a oneonone conversation with somebody who may be on the court for the next 30 or 40 years . Im going to spend my time questioning with her, chatting with lher under oath, i think thats the appropriate step to take. This is not a normal process, joe. People are saying i should extend the courtesy. When the president extends the courtesy to the American People to not lie to us and tell us the truth, then ill extend the courtesy to their nominee for the Supreme Court. Theyre shoving this person down our throat and im preparing for her at the confirmation hearing to ask the questions i need to ask. What are your biggest concerns . My biggest concern is that shes being pushed to be on this court, that shell be sitting there to hear the Affordable Care act case on november 10th and shell be a vote to breakdown the Affordable Care act and therefore millions of people, including about 100,000 people with preexisting conditions will no longer have the protections of the Affordable Care act. Breaking that down is near and dear to the republicans hearts and theyre going to accomplish it by putting her on the court in as fast a process as possible. This process shouldnt be happening but the republicans are not keeping their word, what else can you do . Senator, theres been some discussion among your colleagues that if the democrats were to reclaim the senate this fall and the president was able to confirm and place his nominee here that the senate would perhaps the democratic controlled senate would look to take radical changes, including eliminating the filibuster and expanding the seats on the Supreme Court, beyond what has become the normal nine. Do you support the measures . I thought about court reform for a number of years now and the fact is we wont have a serious discussion about any of those matters unless the democrats take back the senate. So first you need to take back the senate. Ive been thinking about it by this administration, this president and mitch mcconnell. Senator, let me ask you about the judges faith. 2017, a lot of eyebrows were raised when Dianne Feinstein suggested that her faith could get in the way of her being an effective judge. Do you have any concerns about her being a woman of faith, a devout woman of faith and getting in the way of her being able to do her duty, or do you believe people can actually be practicing catholics and devout christians and still be an effective judge . Joe, her religion is immaterial. The issue is whether she can separate her deeply held views on issues like abortion, lgbtq rights, whether she can separate her views from her ability to be fair and objective as a justice sitting there for years making decisions that impact all of our lives, starting with the Affordable Care act. So your suggestion is that if she just interprets the law, based upon the law, which she has said thats what she does, if she can interpret the law based on that and not actually legislate from the bench, then you have no problem with her faith at all . I have concerns about her willingness to to, you know, overturn Supreme Court preced t precedent. Shes written about that. I would like to know what kind of factors would she apply in her determination that a previouS Supreme Court decision was wrong. And so, roe v wade is a previouS Supreme Court decision. Thats a precedent. So i would like to know because she has expressed a willingness to overturn precedent based on her own view of the constitution. I think it is really important for the American People to understand what those parameters will be, because there are a lot of Supreme Court precedents that she could over turn based on what shes laid out for us. Itll be very interesting to hear her being questioned. Senator, thank you for coming on this morning. Thank you. Aloha. Coming up, new reporting that the director of the cdc is alarmed over the influence of the president s new Covid Task Force adviser. Morning joe is coming right back. E adviser. Morning joe is coming right back smooth driving pays off with allstate the safer you drive the more you save youve never been in better hands allstate click or call for a quote today teeth sensitivity as well as gum issues. Does it worry me . Absolutely. Sensodyne sensitivity gum gives us the dual action effect that really takes care of both our teeth sensitivity as well as our gum issues. Theres no question its something that i would recommend. I feel good i knew that i would, now i feel good get a dozen double crunch shrimp for one dollar with any steak entree. Only at applebees. Whatintroducing the new sleepld . Number 360 smart bed. With any steak entree. Now temperature balancing, so you can sleep better together. Save up to 1,000 on the new sleep number 360 smart bed and adjustable base. Plus, 0 interest for 24 months free delivery. Ends monday. New reporting just in on the Trump Administrations handling of the coronavirus pandemic, the centers for Disease Control is growing more concerned that President Trump is sharing Incorrect Information with the public. Incorrect would be one thing. Actually, whats happening is theyre concerned hes lying to the public. Hes lying to the public because he knows better and he continues to spread the lies anyway. We have him on tape talking to bob woodward telling us he knows what the truth is, hes just chosen to lie to the American People while 205,000 americans are now dead. So more now dr. Robert redfield, who heads the cdc suggested in a phone call that the president s covid19 adviser dr. Scott atlas is arming trump with misleading data about a range of issues, including the questioning of the efficacy of masks. Lying. Whether young people are susceptible to the virus lying. And the potential benefits of herd immunity, the key things were dealing with with this pandemic. On that phone call dr. Redfield says about dr. Atlas, quote, everything he says is false. Redfield made the call in public on a commercial airline and overheard by National Weather service nbc news. He acknowledged that he was talking about dr. Scott atlas. Atlas was brought onto the White House Task force in august. Maybe he and Ronny Jackson can get reported. In a report nbc news said theyre reporting one side of the conversation. Asked to response to redfields comments, atlas said in many part in a statement, everything ive said is directly from the data and the science. That too is a lie. Okay. Joining us now former acting director of the cdc, president and ceo of the Robert Wood Johnson foundation, dr. Richard besher. Id like to start out by asking you to prognosticate a bit based on the science we have on what the next few weeks look like, the next month really. The president has been traveling statetostate. Hes been in pennsylvania, virginia, large crowds close together, some of them outside but many not wearing masks. Do you expect numbers to surge in those areas from what weve seen in the past from places where he has held Public Events . And where do we stand in terms of the coronavirus and surges around the country . Are things Getting Better or worse . Yeah, thats a big question. Clearly we know, mika, that public gatherings, people close together without masks is a really dangerous thing. So you want to encourage people not to do that. If you are going to be in a public space wear a mask. What you can do to protect yourself and others around you. Whether well be sensitive enough to pick up spread from that is another question. Weve seen its a dangerous thing. We saw it occur earlier on when the president went to oklahoma, saw cases out of that and did unfortunately see deaths. Going forward the next several months depends on what we do. We passed last week a grim milestone of 200,000 deaths and its time for us as a nation to say, do we want to talk in a number of months about 300,000 deaths, 400,000 deaths or do those things that work around the globe, wearing masks, social distancing, washing our hands looking out for each other. We can do that. But if a sizable part of the country isnt willing to take those steps were going to be facing a lot of grim milestones over the course of the next year. Let me ask you about the state of florida. Ron desantis, the governor there, lifted all restrictions despite the fact that cases are going up. Is there any scientific, medical reason why he should do that . And how dangerous is that, especially for florida seniors . What the cdc data has shown, and cdc while its under siege is still doing incredible studi studies. Over the summer they showed the rising cases was from young people coming together. You saw it in florida, texas, arizona, california, when those states then took measures to reduce that kind of crowding we saw the numbers going down. So what i expect to see in florida is further development and support for that evidence. When you encourage or allow people to come together in unsafe ways, cases are going to go up. They found young people tend to do well with this but a couple of weeks from the surge in young people you see the cases go up in older people and they dont do so well. Yamiche alcindor is with us and has a question for you. Thank you. I have two quick questions the first is the president said over and over again that young people are almost not at all affected by this virus. Could you specifically talk to young people, as a florida native, about how susceptible they are to the virus. And two, i was at the white house when the Supreme Court nomination happened. There were dozens of people on the lawn, shoulder to shoulder, most not wearing masks, how dangerous is it to do in this pandemic, at this time . Ill take the second question first. The virus doesnt care what party youre a member of. Wear a mask. These are critical issues. If you feel you need to come together and protest and raise concerns, wear the mask, keep 6 feet from each other if you can, but please do those steps to protect each other. In terms of the impact on young people. Im a pediatrician. What we see is younger people are at lower risk of having severe infection but thats not no risk. It doesnt mean you cant get sick and cant get hospitalized and die. Weve seen deaths across the age spectrum. The other thing is young people dont just stay with young people. They get together and spread it. Across our country what were seeing is the impact isnt spread easily. People of color, black americans, native americans, latinos are bearing the brunt. And a lot of that is with contact with young people. So wear the masks, avoid the parties. There are ways to stay connected that arent going to put others at risk. I want to comment, at the top you were talking about scott atlas, who is now on the task force. Its really important for people to recognize that we have some of the worlds leading experts in Public Health at the cdc, at nih, at fda and other places around the country. Scott atlas is not one of them. Hes not an Infectious Disease physician, a Public Health expert. The idea were taking advice from someone without the experience to know how to handle this and that advice is becoming part of the approach the administration is taking is extremely dangerous. Dr. Richard besser, once again thank you so much for coming on the show this morning. Thank you. Still ahead, the New York Times bombshell on the president s massive money problems, a decade long battle with the irs, loads of debt and a struggling business empire. Is trump among the worst businessmen of our time . Yes. Morning joe is coming right back. Coming right back beautiful. But support the leg when i started cobra kai, the lack of control over my business made me a little intense. But now i practice a different philosophy. Quickbooks helps me get paid, manage cash flow, and run payroll. And now im back on top. With koala kai. Hey more mercy. Save over 30 hours a month with intuit quickbooks. The easy way to a happier business. Fraudsters, theyre out to get your medicare number so they can bill fake claims in your good name. Dont give them that chance. Just calling to confirm your medicare number. Do you have your card available . For example, if the caller says theyre from medicare, watch out. Its probably a scam. Dont give out your card number. And always check your claims statements for errors. Report fraudulent charges to 1800medicare. Guard your card. Learn more at medicare. Gov fraud. On voter fraud, as you know, hopefully there wont be a very beg movement because hopefully well be able to win. We have the massive movement. I think were going to have a tremendous victory that wont be a transition because i cant imagine we call it transition if we win. You know, they talk about, will there be a friendly transition . Of course there will. We have a big problem. You see is every day happening with ballots. No, you dont. Thats a lie. But its a lie because hes seen the polls and you know hes losing. And theres a lot now explaining why that could upset him a great deal as it pertains to the new york city times bombshell on his tax returns. The former republican governor of pennsylvania and the first secretary for the department of Homeland Security, tom ridge, says hes voting for joe biden. In an oped yesterday in the philadelphia inquirer, ridge writes, in part, it will be my first vote for a democratic candidate for president of the United States, but it is not the first time i have said no to donald trump. I urge my fellow pennsylvanians to join me. Donald trump has proven over these last four years he is incapable of such leadership. It is not within him. He lacks the empathy, integrity, and mature to lead. He sow division along religion and race lines and he dismisses experts who know far more about the subject at hand. With just about one month until election day, President Trump continues to claim the only way he can possibly be defeated is a rigged election. Can you imagine the huberous. Mr. Republican, jonathan lemi lemire, for pennsylvania, also for Homeland Defense security, Homeland Security chief, in the Bush Administration deciding to break and vote against a republican candidate for president for the first time in his life. Youve been reporting on pennsylvania. Whats your take on this story . Well, joe, i think it could have an impact in two ways. Ridge is just the latest National Security, many who have come out against donald trump saying hes unfit for office, hes perhaps even a danger to the nation. Theres been a broad array of republicans, National Security officials who have done that. Some of whom, of course, worked in the Trump Administration. Those who knew him best are coming out against him. Yes, theres also the pennsylvania governor, governor ridge served the commonwealth of pennsylvania for some time. It does carry some weight among the gop. Weve been talking all morning about how pennsylvania might be the most important state on map. Biden and trump view it could be the Electoral College tipping state. In wisconsin and michigan and potentially arizona are slipping away from President Trump, he needs pennsylvania, quite simply, to make it to 270. Polls suggest a pretty tight race. Joe biden up, not up by a lot. If governor ridges voice here sways even a sliver of republicans or independents or undecideds away from trump to biden, in a state that President Trump so desperately needs. Still ahead, do obama voters who switched to trump in 2016 now prefer joe biden . Polling shows the president may be losing a major chunk of the coalition that helped him win the white house. Well look at all the latest numbers. Numbers. Chicago okay, so, magnificent mile for me i thought i was managing my moderate to severe Crohns Disease. Until i realized. Something was missing. Me. You okay, sis . My symptoms kept me from being there for my sisters. So i talked to my doctor and learned humira is for people who still have symptoms of Crohns Disease after trying other medications. The majority of people on humira saw significant symptom relief in as little as 4 weeks. And many achieved remission that can last. Humira can lower your ability to fight infections. Serious and sometimes fatal infections, including tuberculosis, and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened, as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. Tell your doctor if youve been to areas where certain fungal infections are common and if youve had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have flulike symptoms or sores. Dont start humira if you have an infection. Be there for you. And them. Ask your doctor about humira. With humira, remission is possible. If you cant afford your medicine, abbvie may be able to help. If you cant afford your medicine, i will send out an army to find you in the middle of the darkest night its true, i will rescue you oh, i will rescue you its time for theraflu hot liquid medicine. Powerful relief so you can restore and recover. Theraflu hot beats cold. Thats fake news. Totally fake news. Made up, fake. We went through the same stories, you could have asked me the same questions four years ago. I had to litigate it and talk about it. Totally fake news. Actually, no, i pay tax. Youll see that as soon as my tax returns are its under audit. Theyve been under audit for a long time. The irs does not treat me well. You know, hes actually right, he does pay taxes. I think what was it last year he paid 750 in taxes. Yeah. Ten out of 15 years he paid zero percent in taxes. Think actually of all the nurses who paid more in federal income taxes than donald trump over the past decade. Think of all the construction workers that paid more in federal income taxes than donald trump over the past 10, 15 years. Think of all the wait reresses,u go down the list. You can think of all of that. You can also think of all the money he lost over the years. I mean, talk about the biggest lose loser. Never seen a worse businessman in my life. That was President Trump hold a second. Some people might say thats harsh for you. No. To call donald trump the biggest loser when it comes to business. Its staggering. But the numbers actually show that through a large part of his business akeer, he lost more money than any other american citizen. And the amazing thing is his daddy gave him equivalence of 400 million and he lost all of that. Bankruptcies right and left. Then as he was struggling, he finally got to the apprentice and struck oil there. Made another 400 million there. Lost all of that money. I dont know. You would think if you lost 400 million that your daddy gave you the first time, you would say, hey, the next time i make some money, im not going to be really stupid with it. But he is i think its safe to say, if you just look at the federal records, mika, he is the least successful business person of all time. And the incredible thing is he has painted himself as this great businessman, which, by the way, we all know that in new york real Business People would die laughing at the prospect when donald trump is doing the apprentice, they would say Middle America thinks thats a Good Businessman . They think thats a business tycoon . They would laugh because they were running the banks where donald trump had rolled up hundreds of million in debt. They were the ones running the Construction Projects they couldnt pay for. They had seen him collapse and fail time and time again. No, biggest i do think when the history books were written, it will show that nobody has lost more money in American Business in the past 20 years consistently than donald trump. We had heard all those stories and now the tax returns are backing it up. That was President Trump lashing out at the New York Times over its bombshell report over his massive money problems. And also maybe some major legal questions coming out as well. Struggling properties, chronic losses, years of tax avoidance, and hundreds of millions in debt quickly coming due. Were going to get to those newly obtained records straight ahead. One other thing, too. You know, tax avoidance is one thing. Thats sad. A lot of americans thats not what im talking about, though. I know. And tax avoidance. And weve talked time and again how we think the tax code is horrible. It allows billionaires, multimillionaires. Amazon, amazon paid zero, zero in federal income taxes. Thats what were talking about here. Federal income taxes. Theres something terribly wrong with that tax code and it needs to be fixed, but thats tax avoidance. What were looking at here looks like tax evasion. And if the irs ends up in the end deciding going after trump and winning that case there, you could have a guy thats spending his postpresidency bankrupt and all of these leans were finding out that are coming due in the next three, four years ago, donald trump has personally guaranteed. This is a guy, make no mistake of it. You look at the numbers. He can call it fake news. Its his own tax returns. So if its fake news, hes also guilty of tax fraud. Its his own tax returns this reporting is over. Were looking at a guy that could be bankrupt in the next three to four years. And is he a billionaire . Not even close. Also, joe, if you look into these numbers, as we will over the days and weeks to come carefully, it make explain his behavior as well. It does. It may actually explain. It may show what his intentions were, where he was vulnerable, and how he played the game. Well, the money he got from turkey well talk to mike schmidt and others about there, but the money he got from Foreign Countries, the money he got from the philippines, it explains an awful lot. Good morning and welcome to morning joe. As we back into the show this morning, its monday, september 28th. With us we have White House Reporter for the Associated Press, Jonathan Lemire, hose of politics nations and president of the National Action network, reverend al sharpton. His new book rise up confronting a country at the crossroads is out tomorrow. Well be talking to reverend al all this week about rise up throughout this week, as it launches again tomorrow. Were very excited about that. Also with us, national Political Correspondent for nbc news and msnbc, an author of the red and the blue, Steve Kornacki. And nbc news capitol hill correspondent, host of way too early, kasie d. C. , kasie hunt. New york times reporter, nbc National Security analyst, Michael Schmidt, the author of donald trump versus the United States inside the struggle to stop a president. We want to get to new battleground state polling showing joe biden up over President Trump in several key states. 36 states. 36 days before election day. People are voting now. In maine, the latest kol by college poll shows biden with an 11point lead, 39 to 50 . In wisconsin, the nbc marist cloej poll shows biden up by ten. In michigan the same poll gives biden an eightpoint lead, 52 to 44 . In minnesota, the usa today suffolk poll has biden up by seven, 47 to 40 . The star tribune poll has biden up by six in the state, 48 to 42 . In North Carolina, the latest cbs yougov poll has biden and donald trump in a statistical tie, 48 to trumps 46 . In georgia the same poll shows another statistic all tie, trump 47 , biden 46 . In South Carolina the cbs yougov poll has trump with a tenpoint lead, 52 to 42 . Steve kornacki, no need to put the asterisks need to these polls. It is not early. The National Poll unmoved. A couple of National Polls at ten and nine. The National Polls looking the same as they have for an entire year. One of the most tumultuous year in modern american history. The one thing thats a steady, a constant, joe biden has been ahead by eight, nine, points. The cbs Washington Post poll, up by ten. Political pundits are always looking at the last race. What are we saying for the last three, four years, oh, its those white voters that donald trump has been gaining while hes been insulting hispanics and minorities and the others. You look where the white guys are and wisconsin, supposedly, in michigan, in minnesota, and you see actually joe biden consolidating. Apparently hes doing pretty well with voters in wisconsin. And this is a consistency. A tenpoint lead in wisconsin. Weve seen a ninepoint lead, weve seen eightpoint leads postkenosha. It hasnt been close. In michigan we have an eightpoint lead in michigan. In minnesota, a sevenpoint lead. And yet we didnt show the polls from florida and arizona, but where is it getting close, steve . Its getting close in florida and arizona in the sun belt, in part, because biden hasnt closed the deal with hispanics yet so he has sort of a reversal of what everybodys been talking about. Lets talk about that industrial midwest because thats thats Donald Trumps only path to victory. Whats going on up there . Its interesting. They all came together for donald trump in 2016. One is he ended up getting pretty much consolidating the republican base. It helped him in a state like georgia. You talk about a texas and North Carolina. The other key ingredient on trump is what youre honing in this, the midwest. You could draw a line. It almost starts in parts of north dakota, stretches down as far south as appalachia and goes to maine, and you can find town after town, county after county where donald trump was running up massive numbers in places with large populations of blue collar, white voters. White voters without a college degree, older whites, and all of the polls were you putting up here, are consistent in this way. They represent polls showing Significant Movement among white voters and among noncollege white voters in particular, which is trumps base. To give you a couple examples from our nbc marist poll, we took a look at wisconsin and michigan. Two states trump flipped, these are states where trump was basically winning the blue collar white vote by 30 points in 2016. Thats much higher tlan anybody thought he was going to get in 2016. Our polling and other polls out there, you look at other polls, they find the same thing, Single Digits. Trump lead of Single Digits among noncollege white voters in those states. You put maine up there. Maine is part of the story. Why did trump get an electoral vote in main map in 2016. Its because that congressional direct he won in 2016. Maine is filled with blue collar, white voters. Noncollege white voters. Trump ran up the score there hi. We have seen polling from that Congressional District which shows joe biden running competitively with donald trump. We have spent four years talking about the trump base, blue collar whites, noncollege whites. The day after the election in 2016 we had a different term for those voters. We called them obama, obama trump voters. These are voters in a lot of cases who went with obama in 2018, stuck with obama and then flipped to trump. The obama part of that equation in the polling is coming back into the mix. Biden is drawing support and looking more for the democrats like 2012 than 2016. New polling shows key republican incumbents still strugglinging to hold on. Youre watching morning joe. A lets take a look at whats happening with polling that shows democratic challengers giving republican incumbents a run for their money. Cal cunningham holds a tenpoint lead over incumbent thom tillis. In maine, democrat sar are guiden leads Susan Collins by four, 45 to 41. Thats looking close. In South Carolina, incumbent Lindsey Graham is statistically tied with democratic challenger jamie harrison, 45 to 44 . He was on fox all day friday saying, help me, help me, i need money. And he just showed up all day on fox, begging for money. In georgia, incumbent david perdue holds a fivepoint lead over democratic challenger john ossof. In michigan, gary peters holds a fivepoint lead over john james, 49 to 45 . Kasie hunt, what races stand out to you the most . And could these be consequential changes . They absolutely could be. And the one that stands out the most there is that North Carolina race. I mean, if we put that number back up on the screen, i mean, this is stunning for an incumbe incumbent. 38 . If youre at 38 and youre an incumbent sitting senator, that is a huge problem. You know, more than any other race on the map, i think this is a generic ballot test because tillis wasnt necessarily this was true when he ran against kay hagan, its the purest reelection of d versus r with no candidate necessarily having a huge advantage in personality or any other issue. You really dont want to be there if you are thom tillis. That is a terrible number. On the flipside, that michigan number, gary peters versus james is also something ive been hearing from republican sources that theyre suddenly keeping an eye there. That number is closer than we anticipated it might be. You see gary peters ever so slightly, under 50 . A potential trouble spot for democrats there. But when you bring that Lindsey Graham number in, and we talked about this last week, republicans we saw this in 2014 when democrats could not overcome the Approval Rating, this is if this is a true reflection of where things stand in South Carolina, republicans are going to have a hold time holding job to the senate. Joe, im just go ahead, sorry. No, you go ahead. I was going to pick up on your conversation about these tax returns in this context and also as i was sitting here listening to you talk about it. I went to go find joe bidens tax returns. Theyre on the website in a neatly ordered list. You can click on it and find it. You can see in 2016, when obviously he and barack obama were serving and he was making the salary thats afforded to the Vice President , he pays 92,198 in taxes and got 1,031 refund. This is how its supposed to look. He was not before he left office a rich man and he was somebody who did well, who had a voe have a high salary. To contrast that, no rememberal people who pay taxes, one of the things that makes this such a problem for trump is joe biden comes across as a working class guy. People believe thats who he is. He obviously didnt believe that about clintHillary Clinton. That compounds the problem donald trump is facing here. A look at other stories were following this morning. The latest on the covid crisis as officials warn about the fall surge. Plus, former Trump Campaign manager brad pascel. Well have the latest in the latest reporting. E the latest i latest reporting but i like it, i love it, i want some more of it i try so hard, i cant rise above it dont know what it is get a dozen double crunch shrimp for one dollar with any steak entree. Only at applebees. Four years behind us. To end the anger, the insults, the division. And start fresh in america. I dont pledge allegiance to red states of america or blue states of america. I pledge allegiance to the United States of america. Im gonna fight as hard for those who supported me as those who did not support me. We have a chance to put anger and division that has overtaken this country behind us. And we can. Weve done it so many times in our history. We begun anew. We can get control of this virus. We can reward work. We can make healthcare affordable. We can be a safe and just nation. We can deal with the existential threat of climate change. We can be what we are at our best. One nation, one people, one america. Im joe biden and i approve this message. But we are hoping things will pick up by q3. Yeah. Uh. Boss doug . Sorry about that. Umm. What. Its. Um. Boss you alright . [sigh] [ding] never settle with power e trade. It has powerful, easytouse tools to help you find opportunities, 24 7 support when you need answers plus some of the lowest options and futures Contract Prices around. Dont get mad. Get e trade and start trading today. Restaurants reopened with no restrictions on friday following an announcement by governor ron desantis. His order prohibits local governments from issuing restrictions to businesses unless they can justify the economic cost. Bars are now able to operate at full capacity. Though desantis did not address other businesses during the announcement, many gyms, hair salons and other Service Industries were already operating at full xafrt. According to nbc news, the uptick in cases during the months of july and august prompted the governor to close bars and restrict restaurants to takeout only, but he has since slowly reopened the state for business even as the virus continues to decimate the u. S. On friday the same day of reopening announcement, florida reported more than 2,500 new covid19 infections. Thats a lot. Doesnt seem to make a lot of sense. More than 1,000 new yorkers tested positive for coronavirus on friday, the First Time Since june 5th. The infections rate reached 1 . Andrew cuomo announced over the weekend, new yorks Health Department said in some neighborhoods, covid19 is spreading at an alarming rate and that the city should consider shutting down private schools and nonessential businesses in these areas. In some parts of the city, the Positivity Rate topped 6 as more businesses, private schools and colleges have reopened. New york citys Public Schools are set to resume inperson instruction this week. Lets just remember. In the spring before it got warm, you had a lot of places across the north especially that had problems because more of those residents were inside. In the summer months when donald trump said this was going to imaginingicly go away, you suddenly saw an outbreak across florida and arizona because it was getting awfully hot. A lot of people were going inside. As we go into the fall and flu season starts up, a lot of people have been concerned about this. New yorkers and others in the northeast and across the northern states are going to be going back inside again en masse. And its just going to cause, again, probably going to cause real concerns. One more story here. Former Trump Campaign manager, Brad Parscale, is in the hospital after threatening to selfharm, according to authorities. Ft. Lauderdale Police Arrived at parscales house in the afternoon yesterday when his wife alerted authorities that he was armed, has access to multiple firearms and was threatening to harm itself. Officials were able to talk him out of the house uninjured and transported him to Broward Health medical center. The Trump Campaign released a statement following the news writing, Brad Parscale is a member of our family and we all love him. We are ready support him and his family in any way possible. It is really, really sad story. Jonathan lemire, im sure youve had dealings with brad before. We certainly have. Of course, times dais the deas have been tough, going back and forth. A really sad story. Weve seen this a few times with some people in Donald Trumps inner circle. Trump is used to the glare and the fighting and the back and forth, all these wars, tabloid wars, but its really hard for people to understand the glare that anybody in washington, d. C. , goes through. Youve seen caputo having some challenges in this atmosphere. And now brad again, somebody weve known for a while and, again, our hearts and the prayers are going out to him in this terrible struggle and family. But it has been a very tough few months for brad, hasnt it . It has. First and foremost, our thoughts and prayers with him and his family. Glad the matter resolved yesterday without anyone being hurt. Brad parscale was the Campaign Manager for the first stretch of this run. He was part of the 2016 team as well. He had been a bit of a character, 68 with a noticeable beard. Rally goers and fans were drawn to him. He would sign autographs and take pictures and was well liked by staff, including very senior members of the staff. Youre right. He had a falling out with the president over the summer, in particular after the dbaebacle the tulsa rally where he said there were a million ticket requests and ended up being about 6 thouf there and the president stared into a sea of empty seats. He himself was the center of an antitrump ad campaign suggesting that he was making profiting off the trump name. This can be, the scrutiny in the spotlight can be tough on any trump adviser, particularly one, Brad Parscale a few years ago was anonymous, digital operations guy, not used to the campaign. We hope he gets the help he needs and comes through okay. Coming up, the great jeff daniels will be our guest after his portrayal of james comey and the events leading up to comeys firing by the president. Were back in just a moment. When i started cobra kai, the lack of control over my business made me a little intense. But now quickbooks helps me get paid, manage cash flow, and run payroll. And now im back on top. With koala kai. Save over 30 hours a month with intuit quickbooks. Neutrogena® rapid wrinkle repair®. Weve got the retinol that gives you results in one week. Not just any retinol. Accelerated retinol sa. One week is all it takes. Neutrogena®. Welcome back to morning joe. Foreign policy is looming large over the final stretch of the president ial campaign. With serious challenges facing the next administration, regardless of who wins in november. In the coming weeks, morning joe is diving into the most pressing International Issues beginning today with the middle east. Joining us now, nbc News Senior International correspondent keir simmons. Keir . Good morning. It is positive important, to crucial that you guys are looking in depth at this, that your executive producer commissioned this because i dont think its an exaggeration to say that this election may be as important to the world as, for example, when fdr was reelected in 1940 during the height of the second world war. Billions of people around the world who dont have a vote know what happens in november may deeply affect their lives. As you mentioned, today were going to look at the middle east and israel in particular. Whoever is president next year may have to make crucial decision about the long talked about twostate solution. And that will be profoundly important for the Israeli Palestinian issue. Reporter the past seven decades have seen wars, civil unrest and peace deals but its often appeared like little changes when it comes to israel and the palestinians. Thats not how it looks right now. Whoever is president from january will face a new middle east and potentially historic decisions. President trump along with his soninlaw and Senior Adviser Jared Kushner have been moving the needle in ways previously thought unthinkable and in ways that are, perhaps, irreversible. I took my promise, recognized the true capital of israel and opened the American Embassy in jerusalem. Reporter for filling a passionate goal of his evangelical base and shattering the longheld idea of u. S. Support for a palestinian capital in East Jerusalem. The u. S. Has recognized Golan Heights and Benjamin Netanyahu in 2019 even named a settlement there, trump heights. And the Trump Administration recognized israeli settlements in the west bank as legal, going against decades of u. S. Policy that are considered the communitys illegal under international law. Then this month a peace deal that read more like a trade deal, signed at the white house between israel, the uae and bahrain. Ambassador gold knows Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu well. Since President Trump took office, the relationship between the american president and the israeli Prime Minister has been very close. With a lot of understanding of israels dleilemmas, israel problems. Reporter the chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee says crucially the gulf states are ready to move on. I think theyre tired of the situation, tired of the situation not changing. They see clearly that iran is on a very bad path and a wrong path. As far as the palestinians are concerned, i think they see they have missed opportunity after opportunity. Reporter the palestinians have not taken a seat at the table for recent negotiations during trumps socalled deal of the century. The Palestinian Ambassador to the United Kingdom was based in washington until a Trump Administration shuttered the Palestinian Mission to the United States two years ago. What President Trump and netanyahu are doing is abracadabra. The abracadabra pops, the rabbits have disappeared. Reporter the chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee told us palestinians have misjudged their negotiations. They got it wrong. This is not about centimeters of land here and there. This is about human, sheer, pure, human dignity, human rights, human aspirations. Reporter the Trump Administration has changed geopolitics but look closely at the facts on the ground and its clear, future president s will have to deal with some harsh realities. Over the past two decades, over 600,000 jewish settlers have built communities in parts of East Jerusalem and the west bank. First thing out there reporter land promised to the palestinians for a future state. This is our historic homeland, where our roots are, where our identity is. That doesnt mean we hate arabs. That doesnt mean we should have upward mobility. It just means this is our land. Reporter thats an impossible idea to the palestinians. This land, sooner or later, according to the israels, it will be taken. And to be honest, we will not be able to do anything because we are talking about this side and weak on the other side. Reporter this man says his family has owned this land for generations, which now sits in the shadow of this settlement. Taking this part of land from me, its like taking my life. Reporter solving this historic impasse is the deal President Trump hasnt done. During his last election, Prime Minister netanyahu promised to, quote, apply israeli sovereignty over or annex parts of the west bank. Words israel, annexi ining part the west bank, make a twostate solution impossible . It makes it harder and harder. With each step israel takes to resolve what are called final status issues in advance of negotiations between the parties, it shrinks the space for a possible resolution. And i think shrinking space for a peaceful resolution may have the unintended consequence of increasing the likelihood of conflict. Reporter who wins the election in november could be the deciding factor. Senator chris coons who could be secretary of state under biden, meanwhile the secretary saying they could be part of the west bank. The israeli ambassador told us that annexing parts of the west bank, even under a president biden, is a distinct possibility because it is important for israels security. Okay. Nbcs keir simmons, thank you so much. We look forward to your next report. Appreciate that. And up next, a portrayal of donald trump and the fbi director at the center of the russia probe. Were joined by jeff daniels, who portrays jim comey in the new miniseries. Keep it right here on morning joe. Who is usaa made for . Its made for him a veteran who honorably served and its made for her shes serving now we also made usaa for military spouses and their kids become a member. Get an insurance quote today. Stand up to moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis. And take. It. On. With rinvoq. Rinvoq a oncedaily pill. Can dramatically improve symptoms. Rinvoq helps tame pain, stiffness, swelling. And for some. Rinvoq can even significantly reduce ra fatigue. Thats rinvoq relief. With ra, your overactive immune system attacks your joints. Rinvoq regulates it to help stop the attack. Rinvoq can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. Serious infections and blood clots, sometimes fatal, have occurred. As have certain cancers, including lymphoma, and tears in the stomach or intestines, and changes in lab results. Your doctor should monitor your bloodwork. Tell your doctor about any infections. And if you are or may become pregnant while taking rinvoq. Take on ra talk to your rheumatologist about rinvoq relief. Rinvoq. Make it your mission. If you cant afford your medicine, abbvie may be able to help. If you cant afford your medicine, want conservative judges on ithe court. Vative, this may make you feel better, but i really dont care. If an opening comes in the last year of President Trumps term and the primary process has started well wait to the next election. I want you to use my words against me. Youre on the record. Yeah, hold the tape. Lindsey must go and the Lincoln Project are responsible for the content of this ad. Keeping your oysters growing while keeping your business growing has you swamped. you need to hire i need indeed indeed you do. The moment you sponsor a job on indeed you get a shortlist of quality candidates from a resume data base so you can start hiring right away. Claim your seventyfivedollar credit when you post your first job at indeed. Com promo whatintroducing the new sleepld . Number 360 smart bed. Now temperature balancing, so you can sleep better together. Save up to 1,000 on the new sleep number 360 smart bed and adjustable base. Plus, 0 interest for 24 months free delivery. Ends monday. Its true, mr. President , you can fire the fbi director at any time, for any reason, or for no reason at all, but i want to stay because i love the bureau and i love my job and i believe im doing it well. One thing i never think about in the Trump Organization, because i did so much myself, is people think we were so big, but truth is, i did everything. But i have to rely on people. I have all these idiot advisers around who think they got me elected. You know who i actually listened to . Tv people, because ive got to get ratings every day. White house adviser can guess wrong, still keep his job. Not the tv guys. A lot of smart people in that business. Well, you can rely on me, sir, to tell you that i i need loyalty. That was a scene from the twopart showtime, twopart event series the comey rule based on the number one best seller. A higher loyalty by former fbi director james comey. Lets bring in emmyaward winning actor jeff daniels who plays comey. Jeff, thank you so much. I want to start by talking about james comey and what you what you learned about comey as you dug into this. Obviously, he wrote the book. He wrote the history that its based on. But for a lot of people, james comey reminds me of the churchill quote that, you know, this guy is riddle wrapped inside a mystery inside an enigma. Who is james comey, this character that has shaped so much of our recent history . I found hes a guy that believes in the rule of law. He looks at that as something bigger than he is. Same thing with the institution, such as the fbi. He believes in protecting the integrity of the fbi. And those things matter to him like peoples religion matters to them. And their god matters to them. Theres a sacredness to it. When he got into these situations that secretary clintons use of the emails threw him into, that the mistake where they missed those 30,000 and 300,000 emails in october leading up to the election, that he now had to be thrust into, he relied on those things that he believed in. And none of those things are political. Theyre apolitical. Thats what i found in this guy, was a guy that was trying to do the right thing, as if that could save him or save the integrity of the fbi. And led the way into people that were apolitical that came after him. And thats what i found was what apolitical looks like, what apolitical thinks like, and why jim did what he did. Knowing what he knew then. Was it possible that a little more cynicism, a little more political insight may have guided him through one of the most difficult times in recent american political history . Yes. And we go through that in last nights episode. And its but its political. And i think he had to his north star had to be the things i just mentioned. And none of those are political. And when the politics come into it from the left or from the right, its almost like he had to push it away. Rightly or wrongly, politically. And stay true to what he believed were the important things, which, in this case, was the rule of law. You know, i look back to Barry Goldwater and, joe, you know far better than i, but the republicans hung on for a long time in watergate. Deny, deny, deflect, dismiss, and then when nixon was breaking the rule of law, goldwater said, lets go and he marched the Senate Republicans up to the white house and he said, mr. President , you have to resign. We dont have those republicans anymore. And jim was up against that. So when he reopened the investigation, by protocol, by sending the letter to the gang of eight, theyre not supposed to leak it for political purposes. He knew they would because thats who we have now. And they did. But jim tried to do the right thing. And thats what i keep falling back on. This series is real good if you just hit pause a bunch of times and go, what would you do, given what you know now based on what jim said, its not so easy. Yeah, not so easy. Lets show another clip. This is where james comey discusses his dinner with the president with agents on his staff. Am i overreacting . No, no. This is how a mob boss talks. A few takeaways. The independence of the fbi doesnt mean anything to him. He sees everything in terms of personal loyalty. Hes fixated on the hookers thing. And he thinks you have a problem. I told him you dont. Boss, you have to be very careful here. Memorialize any more conversations you have with him. There arent supposed to be any conversations with him. Did he bring up Michael Flynn at all or acknowledge that weve been to the white house to interview flynn . No. Possible he was respecting a boundary there . Hard to say. He moved so fast from one subject to another. So much of what he says is factually, legally incorrect, its possible that he thinks the conversation went well, that im solidly on board. This cannot happen again. It is completely inappropriate for the two of you to engage like this. Hes the president. Am i supposed to refuse your call . He just asked you to put loyalty to him above your duty to investigate the threat posed by russia. Im aware. Boss, he just fired sally yates. So, jeff, that scene is so evocative of other moments where you have guys from another era unaware that a new reality is upon them. Whether its guys in detroit in the early 1980s, dont understand that their world is about to change radically, or in other countries like surviving autocracy says one of the mistakes we make in news is were trying to apply the old news of america to a new reality of an autocratic leader. Id love for you to talk about it, but that looked like james comey and everybody else in that room trying to apply the old rules of madisonian democracy to a very new harsh reality. Everybody respected the rule of law. Everybody respected those things that made america and make america the free country that it is. Until now. And its been painfully obvious from before 2016, but certainly in the four years previous. And look at what happened yesterday. Thats what autoc kautocrats do. What i find worse than trump is the complicity of those in congress, in the senate, and i see a Republican Party that is that is no longer the Republican Party that my dad belonged to. Its trumps Republican Party. And they are clinging to that like its the titanic heading to the iceberg and its their last stand. Its the last stand of the Republican Party. And a lot of the people in this country, and i live around a bunch of them, think that that party still exists. And i think days like yesterday with the tax returns starting to come out, were starting to see a president who is doing everything he possibly can, including lying about the pandemic, to stay out of jail. Thats who youre voting for is a president who is heading to prison. And if im wrong, i guess were going to find out, but its so obvious. If the Trump Administration were a movie, a script, they would kick it back because the villain is too obvious. Hes not transparent enough. And you just see this stacking and stacking as we head into november 3rd as the reality of, guys, the iceberg is we can see the iceberg now. What are you waiting for . And what they are waiting official is i dont know. I just dont know. Yeah, none of us do. Jonathan . Hey, jeff. Jonathan lemire. A lot of angry msnbc viewers watching this would probably like to evoke the title of one of your movies dumb and dumber when it comes to comey and President Trump. My questions to you are, did you speak to comey . Did you try to learn from him while preparing this . Did you try to study him in that way . And also, how do you perceive him now . Someone who thought he was doing the right thing. But is someone who, frankly, is so disliked by both sides. Trump republicans feel he was not sufficiently loyal to the president and, of course, democrats feel that biprioritizing the secretary clinton investigation and reviving it just days before the 2016 investigation, he may have played a role in electing donald trump. Yeah, i certainly think he had an impact on the election. Well, first of all, i went to the book. I went to the audio book. You hear jim read it. Youtube is full of interviews. Colbert show. You can see comeys sense of humor. As an actor playing any role, living or dead, fictional, i had plenty going in. I emailed jim. I was finishing to kill a mockingbird on broadway. I said if youre in new york, id love to talk to you. He emailed back, but it didnt happen, and i took that to, dont impose on the guy. Rightly or wrongly, hes been vilified. And im not going to go down to his house and watch him eat dinner. I got enough. And billy ray, the writer director was far more knowledgeable about comey. So i had i was okay. He led the he opened the door for the apolitical Public Servants that came after him. And i could get my timeline wrong, but sally yates may have been even before comey when she was fired and led before congress and lit it up. Jim comey was that apolitical Public Servant who was simply trying to do his job on the side of what was right. That opened the door for people like fiona hill, colonel vindman and others. Thats the picture of apolitical Public Servants trying to do their job in trumps administration. There were other things that impacted the election, aside from comey, not standing in front of a podium and announcing like a showboat that he was going to reopen the investigation into hillarys emails in october. He didnt do that. He sent the letter to the gang of eight and jason chavez leaked it because two days later, giuliani was going to leak it. It was coming out. The media jumped on it. As you guys know, thats a red meat story. Thats eyeballs and ratings. That happened. What didnt happen was an even better story, and that story is hillary is guilty and they found something. Shes criminal, three days before the election. That didnt happen. So while the media covered it, it was more like a retraction. Regardless, then youve got the american electorate who is asleep at the wheel. This is october 2016. Well, shes probably guilty. They did investigate her. Meanwhile, trumps going to lower my taxes, and, you know, hes going to have ten people around him that are going to stop him from doing something stupid or crazy. You know, just like they thought when they attached sarah palin a heartbeat away from the presidency. Theyll surround her with people who know what theyre doing. In trumps case, all those people are gone. Theyre all gone. Yeah. And so there was a lot going on in october 2016, more than just jim comey lost the election. All right. Jeff daniels, thank you so much for being with us. It is a remarkable story and i cant wait to see part two tonight. Part two of the series airs tonight at 9 00 p. M. On showtime. Jeff daniels, again, thanks so much for being with us. We appreciate it so much. And that does it for us this morning. Stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. Hi there. Im stephanie ruhle. It is monday, september 28th. Lets get smarter. This morning, President Trumps Tax Information is finally seeing the light of day. Revealed in a bombshell report from the New York Times and this thing is a stunner. Tons of detail about the president s massive business losses and the fact that he paid essentially nothing in federal income taxes