Former GOP representative Joe Scarborough and Mika Brezinski interview newsmakers, politicians and pundits about the issues of the day. Elections . When were picking whos going to be running the house and the senate . I think right track wrong track is a very important indicator. That and theres often polling numbers of, does this guy or this person, this Candidate Fight for people like you . Those are the type of polls i find a little more credible. Astonishing to me is that it can be down at 35 when the economy on its surface and in its aggregate numbers is doing so well. Id ask an expert like John Heilemann or somebody, have you ever seen right track being 35 when unemployment is below 4 . And since i think the economic numbers wont always be as good, this could really tumble down if theres if there starts to be any blips in the economy. Especially from this continued china trade dispute, which could, you know, start bringing down the economy a little bit. So, joe, since walter invited me to comment, i will. That 35 number will be familiar to you because ive heard you mention it over the course of the last 18 months. The number, look at all polling weve all the polling weve looked at since donald trump has been in office, and had you to ask, whats the honest assessment what the trump core base is. Youd say, as you have many times about 35 . Were looking at right track wrong track walter says is often useful in polling. But weve learned it often essentially tracks not the Approval Rating of the president but tracks where the president s base is at. No matter what else is going on, those are the people that think the countrys on the right track because theyre with the president. 35 , the trump base. Those people. They dont care about the russia probe. They dont care about whats
going on in north korea. They dont particularly care about nato or anything that donald trump is doing or what we say in the media. They think, no matter what theyre with donald trump and if donald trump is in office theyre on the right track. The question i have, can you ever chip away at Donald Trumps pure base . All sorts of things have happened and that 35 is like chiselled in marble. You know, i dont a lot of times democrats dont like me to bring it up, but there was about, you know, 33 , 35 , 38 that would have said anything about george w. Bush from 2001 to 2009. So i think that third, you know, maybe that 33 , that 35 is set hard and will be set hard, but elise jordan when you look at the people that are going to be getting out and voting. Like i always talk about the women we had reports were standing in the rain in northern
virginia, or black voters across whats called the black belt in alabama during that special election. You look at the crosstabs there, its probably much lower for the people who are the most likely to vote this fall. The people that are most motivated by what has happened. Plo motivated in a negative sense since donald trump was elected in 2017. Im fascinated. Women voters across the country, was there vote a protest vote against Hillary Clinton or are they actually going to turn out and be motivated by donald trump and the way hes governing . As of now my bet is they arent. Weve seen that in a lot of the special elections and certainly in these suburban districts, but you look at especially what happened in alabama, too, and black women in alabama really saved the day with that election. So women across the country,
its going to be interesting to see how they actually come out and vote. If theyre motivated to do so. Catkaty, let me get to anoth part of the poll. The president always claims he hires the best people, and that he would hire the best people if elected president , but with four exadvisers indicted, three of those pleading guilty, his former Campaign Chairman on trial right now, a former aide in open revolt, monmouth posed this question in its latest survey. Does donald trump hire the best people . Here we actually cracked that lower third with 30 saying, yes, but a majority 58 said no. On a serious note here, katy, when we get lets move beyond this fall, and if donald trump decides to run for reelection,
and actually, count me as one of the few people who dont believe he will, but if donald trump does decide to run for reelection, thats when americans take a serious look at whoever is sitting in the oval office, and they ask does he or she have the Leadership Qualities that we need to run america . And part of Donald Trumps schtick was, ive run this big business. Ive run you know, this, that and a the other that was his big schtick. I know how to run things. I hire the best people. This actually is a good peek into, lets just say, a preview of 2020 and the type of attacks that donald trump would face if he did seek reelection. Well, look, donald trump has lost 5 of that 35 on that question of whether he hires the best people because of all the drama in the white house and comings and going in the white house, and repeatedly when you ask trump supporter over the course of the last year and a half what are the things you dont like the way the president
is handling the white house is the drama. Trump himself feeds into that when he criticizes his own choices when he talks repeatedly about Jeff Sessions, somebody not the best person for that job. Who hired him for that job . Donald trump. He undermines his own message that he hires the best people, and you combine that with the fact we know that there are a raft of people who dont actually want to go into the white house, were donald trump to run for a second term or were the call to be made to them because its too toxic and they fear for their own reputations. People thinking, not surprising, this is not the smoothest administration weve seen in the white house. And walter, youre heading back to louisiana, Hurricane Season and all pretty soon. When you head back there, when i head back to my home state of florida, i will talk to a lot of people who say, i dont like how he tweets. The Business Leaders in louisiana depend a lot on trade. When the amount of soybeans going through the Port Of New Orleans is down 30 or the companies in Louisiana Cant Import Aluminum and steel to make the products theyre doing, theres uncertainty among donald trump among Business Leaders in places like new orleans. On the other hand, in a lot of rural louisiana, theres just a Deep Contempt for anybody who would speak ill of donald trump and they are really still very strongly in your face that donald trump is setting this country right. Yeah. And ive got to tell you from my read thats not 33 of americans. Thats closer to 40 of americans who still will say, hey, things are going well, and it still is a Binary Choice for so many americans. So many people i talk to, say,
best friend of fellow billionaires. So at some point, does that sink in with workingclass voters who support donald trump, or are they with him to the bitter end . Well, he was a Billionaire Populist in 2016, and it was something that actually really resonated with that base. Certainly much more so than Hillary Clinton who had more of a background from the working class. At least in terms of her own family. So, know, i think it comes down to what weve been talking about so far which is, doesnt he want in that base to do the things that havent gone well and end up resonating with them . So far the polls show, and the enthusiasm that we see out on the trail shows that is not happening. Elise, you see it in mississippi with your friends and family in mississippi. I see it in florida there are still people that are with donald trump, even if its not in their best financial
interest to be with donald trump. And im talking about health care. Some of the people who are actually the most vulnerable when it comes to health care. Who are the people that receive the least benefit from tax cuts that donald trump bragged to his Billionaire Friends at maralago the day he signed the bill. Hey, i just made you guys a lot more rich. Some of the people that are most vulturable are also the most hardcore members of that trump tribe. Ive seen the most concern among female Trump Supporters about the president and particularly his child separation policy. You saw some movement there, deep concern among women who were were upset by the images, the horrifying recordings we heard of these children on the border. So thats something that i feel would be a more effecti iive message for democrats to focus on the cruelty and incompetency
of the Trump Administration executing policies with a President Tweeting erratically about, you know, be it National Security, be It Security Clearances to omarosa and calling her disparaging names. So the level of incompetency, the perception of incompetence and immaturity on behalf of the Trump Administration, particularly starting absolutely at the top with donald trump is something i do think has a potential to persuade women not all that enthusiastic about donald trump to begin with. And we have evidence of that actually from the past, and ive told the story before and weve got somebody from mississippi and louisiana here who will understand exactly what im talking about. After katrina, george w. Bushs administrations response, the federal governments response, was so slow that people from the community, people from our churches, we organized care ava
taking bake water, diapers, sun screen to the gulf coast of mississippi and parts of louisiana, and everybody driving over there were bush supporters. I will tell you it was especially women who were working there that were asking the questions, where wheres the government . Wheres the administration . And i saw more than one or two bush Bumper Stickers being torn off the back of minivans that were driving water over there day in and day out. I think the Border Separation Policy is going to have the same impact, just like you said, elyse, on a lot of women voters who are republicans, who are conservatives, who support the donald trump, who may not go out and vote for somebody that would want nancy pelosi to be speaker of the house, but they may just stay home this fall. Well see. Still ahead on morning joe, were going to hear more from jeff mason on the heels of his wideranging interview with the president including the president saying he has the power to run bob muellers investigation. Plus, new reporting says you can add another name to the list of people from whom President Trump is considered revoking their Security Clearance. And that person is President Obama. Well tell you, who will reportedly get President Trump to back away from that really wise move. First, bill karins with a check on the forecast. Looks like it will be rough tomorrow in the northeast . Thunderstorms rolling through, joe, today and tomorrow depending where youre located. Also hurricane that could possibly have a direct impact in hawaii. More on that in a second. First things first, stop that causes all the problems is right in the middle of ohio valley sending heavy rain and bands of thunderstorms into the great lakes. Spotty showers in Northern Virginia. This is the area of concern
later today. Roughly 16 Million People at risk of severe storms today. Wind damage and isolated Flash Flooding of greatest concern. Notice d. C. Is not in the yellow. In the green for a margins risk. Storms may not be as concentrated for washington, d. C. , richmond and norfolk. Wou watch out pittsburgh, cleveland, erie. And friends in hawaii, looking like a serious threat. Hurricane up to 150 mileperhour winds of lane. The forecast track overnight shifted closer to the Hawaiian Islands and now were looking at eve be the cone of uncertainty including the Big Island Of Hawaii and including oahu and honolulu. Weaker by the time it got there possibly a category 3 or 2 near in about 48 to 72 hours near the western half of the Big Island Of Hawaii. Again, nice weather out there today. Good weather in the northeast. Also hot in texas, but beautiful Oklahoma City into areas of the central plains. Of course, more updates on Hurricane Lane as we get closer
later in the week to see if hawaiis actually going to take a big hit. Close calls the last couple years and missed. This one, though is looking very, very iffy. New york city one of the spots that dodges showers and thunderstorms late tonight. More the overnight hours and early tomorrow morning avoiding any Severe Weather. Youre watching morning joe. Well be right back. Oh, milk. Another breakfast, another dilemma. Am i willing to pay the price for loving you . Youll make my morning,
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when did brian move back in . Brians back . He doesnt get my room. Hes only going to be here for like a week. Like a month, tops. Oh boy. Wifi fast enough for the whole family is simple, easy, awesome. In many cultures, young men would stay with their families until their 40s. Now to that reuters interview in which the president said that he could personally take over the probe into russian interference in the 2016 election. An investigation in which several of his own former aides have been charged. The president said the administration was a smooth Running Machine except in that world and ive decided to stay out. Now, i dont have to stay out. I can go in and i could do whatever. I could run it, if i want, but i
decided to stay out the president said. Im totally allowed to be involved in i wanted to be. So far i havent chosen to be involved. Ill stay out. The president also expressed doubt about the findings of u. S. Intelligence saying the probably played right into the russians. If it was russia, they played right into russians hands. Jeff, you interviewed the president. What was your takeaway . Well, that was certainly one of the more interesting parts of the interview. We covered a lot of ground but in that particular piece, the fact that he portrayed it as a choice whether or not to be involved in Mueller Probe and could run it was really interesting and the fact that just in that you showed the clip right there on the screen kind of in the clause of the sentence talking about russia, inserted a little bit of doubt whether or not they were responsible for meddling of the election in 2016 shows it is
still an issue he is not convinced about. Despite every single entell chief that he hired and he hires only the best people, every one of them said it was russia. Amazing how months after the helsinki summit and all of the fuss and criticism the president got after that having to row back his own comments publicly, which he hated doing about whether he thought it was russia or not and then here he is again in this reuters Interview Saying, perhaps it wasnt russia after all. He just doesnt seem able to bring himself conclusively to say, it was russia, end of story, given this opportunity he rose back on it again. You know, i was surprised also to hear him say that he might take the opportunity to revoke mum
muellers Security Clearance. Hadnt thought about it but didnt rule out that possibility. And a question for you, walter. Yes. Ive been reading this story that will be released this morning from microsoft in which brad smith, General Counsel there and others releasing a report saying microsoft discovered all sorts of russian fake accounts, fake sites that are there right now to hack the midterms. If the president of the United States keeps sort of half defending russia and saying, well, were not even theyre they did it, is the government doing things that will try to protect us against russia hacking the midterms . Or will we have to just rely on private corporations like microsoft . Good question. Comes down between his advisers, what they say and what the president himself says. His advisers came out into the
white house Briefing Room several weeks sayiago saying ru remained a threat and remained a threat in 2018 and started detailing all of the things the Trump Administration is doing to detect these undermining. The president continues to make comments like the one he did to us in our interview yesterday are damaging. Jeff heilemann. We saw yesterday an extraordinary outburst. Hes had twitter tirades in the past. About 14 tweets let go after the Mcgahn Testimony came out. How did he seem . He seemed in social media, even if youre just a completely neutral observer, he seems a little unhinged. Does he seem unhinged in the room . Thats a good question, too. He didnt seem unhinged in the room, no, but he did start out the interview seeming in less of
an ebullient mood than in some interviews ive done with leagues in the past. The interview yesterday with was was with my colleagues. Hell offer drinks, make a Big Show Pushing The Button on his desk to bring somebody in to offer a diet coke and He Didnt Yesterday Nap was noticeable to the three of us at the beginning but ended up, we were only supposed to have 15 minutes with him and it ended up being more than 30. He warmed up and we ended up having a really good conversation. Again, i ask you, you know, youve been up close with the president when he was a candidate and now as president of the United States more than most other humans on planet earth. So you read him pretty well. Youve seen him sometimes dissemble directly to your face i know from some of your past interactions. So when he says something to you like, hey, ive never really
thought about the mueller Security Clearance question. Did that read to you as credible or did it read to you as maybe one of these instances in which the president was not totally being forthcoming . I will tell you he actually yesterday seemed more disciplined in some of his answers than in some of our previous interviews. He did say to that question which i asked him that he hadnt thought about it, but later we followed up again and he said, im not going to comment on that. And he said im not going to comment to a couple of the things we asked yesterday. That is a little unusual for him. Unusual. Yes. I thought he actually showed a little more discipline than he sometimes does in q as with reporters. What are other things that he steered away from, to followup, what struck you as an unusually disciplined way . Talked to him about trade and china and talks coming up this week between the chinese and u. S. Officialofficials, about t. I asked if i poiphones and
electronics might be another way of tariffs . He wouldnt comment on that, although he mentioned he had, and we know this, dinner recently with tim cook of apple. That was a hint thats an issue he has discussed with executives, but something he was very careful about not saying, and you know, that, again, shows discipline, because if he had made comments about that, that could be a marketmoving comment. Sure. I want to press you a little more how President Trump discussed china. Did he have a sense of confidence that he is winning the trade war . You know what . He had confidence that hes going to wait it out. Because we asked if he had any kind of a deadline in mind for stopping this dispute over tariffs. He said no. Ive got a longterm horizon for this. He says, we asked him. He we said youre supposed to meet with president xi later
this year . Would you like things wrapped up by then . Thats not the answer he gave us. He did again praise president xi and said he has a strong relationship with him. Comfortable with a dichotomy of attacking china, Trade Practices and also praising a leader with whom he thinks he has a strong relationship. Reuters jeff mason, thank you so much. Greatly appreciate you being with us. My pleasure. Walter, i find it really interesting always saying that the president of the United States, donald trump, is a day trader. Weve seen lihim be a day trade on north korea. Seen him be a day trader in a lot of other areas as well. Hell change his positions by the day, by the hour. Its interesting that the one thing that donald trump has been consistent absence the 1980s, which is, protectionism and trade wars and being tougher against people that he feels are
taking are taking advantage of the United States, and stupid political leaders. Its interesting that donald trump does seem to have a long game on trade. You can actually see what hes doing here. You can see china reacting in the short term. Donald trump letting him in, then pushing him back again. He certainly he may get a lot of negative pushback from businesses and from a lot of other people on other issues, but as far as china cheating on whether its currency or taking advantage of us on trade he gets reinforcement day in and day out, that the chinese really havent been playing fair with us for a long time and i find it fascinating this one area that donald trump actually has had set beliefs on for a very long time. One of the few areas. It does look like he has a long
game. Yes. Both on trade and in some ways immigration and sort of the nativism who have been part of trumps blood for a very long time. When it comes to trade if you read the art of the deal his book, youre reminded he is not a businessman. Hes a dealmaker. Hes somebody who loves making deals and seeing if he can, not sort of a winwin for him. Its, he can beat people at making deals. If youre a businessman, youre deeply worried about the United States not being part of a world trade system, and you see all of the down sides. But if youre looking at this as a guy who just believes in the art or craft of the deal, hes playing a long game with china, and were going to see. Its hurting the chinese economy. What i think youll begin to see is when things are bad for the chinese economy, it doesnt mean
its good for the u. S. Economy. That hurts the whole world economy, including the u. S. And these Trade Sanctions against china are really going to start hurting not only farmers but manufacturers in the u. S. And well see when workingclass americans, middleclass americans start to see Consumer Goods, the price of those Consumer Goods go up, and it really will end up probably being a game of chicken, but this is, again, in the 1980s, donald trump was taking, talking about the japanese taking advantage of Stupid American Leaders and trade deals that were ripoffs and thats continued again over the past 30, 35 years. Anyway, still ahead, President Trump says another former intelligence official could possibly lose his Security Clearance, and he got the idea after watching john hannity. Well explain when morning joe returns. Because leaving an event shouldnt be one. Uber is moving in a new direction. Forward. Directly to investors. And now we have zero account fees for brokerage accounts. At fidelity, those zeros really add up. Maybe ill win, Saved By Zero at fidelity, those zeros really add up. At booking. Com, we cant guarantee youll good at that water jet thingy. But we can guarantee the best price on this hotel. Or any accommodation, from homes to yurts. Booking. Com booking. Yeah indistthat was awful. Tering why are you so good at this . Had a coach in high school. Really helped me up my game. I had a coach. Math. Ooh. So, Why Dont Traders have coaches . Who says they dont . Coach mcadoo you know, at td ameritrade, we offer free access to coaches and a full education curriculum just to help you improve your skills. Boom mad skills. Education to take your trading to the next level. Only with td ameritrade. Mudd. Former cia counterterrorism official and head of the Fbis National Security Branch debating clearances with protrump commentator paris denard. When i am requested to sit on an advisory board, let me ask you one question. How much do you think im paid to do that at the request of the u. S. Government . Give me one answer and you got ten seconds. How much . Ill ask you a question. How much are you paid for your answer the question. Contracting gigs for being no contracts with the u. S. Government that pay money. Zero. When you have a Security Clearance and you keep it zero relationships with the private sector that involve my Security Clearance. Zero. I get zero dollars from Consulting Companies that deal with the u. S. Government. Are we clear . I will be clear and say that everybody in washington, d. C. Knows if you dont want to be honest about it thats on you, but if you have a Security Clearance and you keep it, you get more money to have it. Were done. Get out its not your show so im
staying right here. And [ bleep ] about this. Get out. Okay. So after 10 00 p. M. Last night trump tweeted just watched former intelligence official philip mudd become totally unglued and weird. Now, this is sort of the pot calling the kettle black. Calling philip mudd weird. While debating wonderful paris denard over brennans Security Clearance. Denard destroyed him, says donald trump, but mudd, who donald trump says is weird, is in no mental condition to have such a clearance. Should be revoked . Tagging on Sean Hannitys twitter handle. Elyse jordan, i dont really know where to begin. Donald trump passing passing judgment on somebody elses mental wellbeing, and them acting erratic on television, but i guess you step back and ask the question, wait a second. Now donald trump is going to start an enemies list and revoke the clearance of anybody that debates against him, if they raise their voice . This is all about power. This is donald trump reveling in Executive Power that he didnt necessarily realize he had. This is clearly its something that as a whole, congress should have clamped down on perhaps a bit more so that the executive didnt have such unrivaled abilities to selfpolice this and to doll out clearances based on their own whims. At the beginning of the show we talked about Melania Trump and debating whether shes trolling her husband with her, be best initiative. Im decide these trolling her husband when she announces a decreased Television Time initiative for the people of this nation, because her husband is the first person who could be used he needs less time in front of the television all day and all night. Way too much tv time. Bring in right now reporter for the Washington Post. Eugene scott. Its not just angry former cia employees. The new yorker reveals new details surrounding John Brennans increasing criticism of donald trump and included in the piece, this nugget. President trump considered taking away former prd obamas ability to see classified information. The peace reads piece reads some of the president s advisors thaw he should have obamas access to intelligence briefings. In the end trump decided not to exclude obama at the urging of
h. R. Mcmaster now gone. So thats very interesting. But eugene, i do get a sense that this is a bit like what elyse just said. Donald trump is frustrated by not getting things through congress. Donald trump is frustrated when he meets democratic elected leaders in nato. Donald trump figured out this is something i can do and focused on President Obama. Absolutely. Indeed seems donald trump is frustrated than being president works very differently than he thought when he ran for president. The reality he could consider removing President Obamas Security Clearance shows how political his motivations may in fact be. Initially he said he wanted to remove the Security Clearances of those who Disrespected Him and who were speaking against him in a very biased way, but we know thats not what President Obama has been doing. To attack President Obama for something that could actually
end up benefiting his government, trumps government, shows just how partisan hes handling these clearances. Katty. When you lump this together for the president s orders, for his ability to pardon people when he wants to, is this just extending his president i president ialabiliti president ialabilitipresident ial abili abilities . No conservative lawmakers are speaking out significantly, i mean conservative lawmakers who actually have to run for reelection in the future, speaking out against the problems of this and the challenges this could present to National Security. He is going to perhaps keep moving forward until someone stops him or attempts to. What i believe weve seen senator warner try to do with
this amendment and john brennan with a possible lawsuit. You know, John Heilemann, though, were talking about Executive Orders and Executive Power. This is something republicans complained about with barack obama, that he governed through Executive Orders. You know, i mean, name the piece of legislation after 2010 significant piece of legislation, that barack obama passed . Of course, he would blake republicans, but you could impeach bill clinton on a tuesday and hed ask you to go golfing on wednesday because he wanted to pass legislation, and he did pass legislation. I just wonder. How much of this has to do with the system and how much does this have to do with president s who dont have the skills that bill clinton, lbj, fdr had . I dont know. I just all i see here and i think its, joe, i think youll
get my kind of drift here. The great thing about trump with the twitter feed on these issues is that he sort of makes the point of his critics even as theyre making the point. Last week we saw critics say, hey, omarosa is out saying Donald Trumps a racist. In that moment is there an n word tape . Trump calls her a dog on twit perp okay. Thank you. You made the point. Here you have all of these intelligence officials saying, donald trump is abusing his powercapriciously taking away Peoples Security clearances not because theyve done something illegal, but just because he doesnt like what theyre saying. Up last night watching tv and in a pernicious way starts threatening to take away phil mudds Security Clearance. Whatever you think about his performance on the show, its an egregious example of the kind of
abuse of power that bipartisan National Security and intelligence officials are concerned about, trump is engaging in the case of brennan and the case of others. He just the twitter feed twi almost like the moment. He wants to present the best evidence. He wants to be the best evidence against himself when it comes to what his critics are charge. Yeah, i think hes frustrated with the office but not the first president to feel that way. In a sense the president is not as powerful as you thought. I think everybodys got that right. Donald trump came in thinking that the presidency was much more powerful. It is frustrating. I could add Ronald Reagans name to that list. He dealt with tip oneill and dealt with a lot of democrats and he got a lot done over eight years, but its a frustrating process. I remember a great story about reagan earlier on, he was trying
to get awac sold to saudi arabia. A congressman came in and knocked i had fabled jelry beans on the floor. Reagan got down on his hands and knees picking up the jelly beans himself. Im not better than you, you just relarks, all is good. I think thats something of the 18,000 People Thinking about running for president in 2020, they need to understand its a frustrating position, and its sort of its like servant leadership. You have to deal with people who are trying to take your head off politically every day. Thats the game. If youre somebody like bill clinton who like i said can be impeached on tuesday and on wednesday be working to pass the next bill, then thats how you succeed. I remember bill clinton telling me one time that the best skill any governor or any president
can have is a short memory. And, you know what . He was exactly right. Reagan won that awac vote too. Joe, didnt Kevin Mccarthy pick out a specific color of m m for donald trump. Thats the example we have today with candy in the oval office. May have been starbursts, m m m, taking the green m ms out for him. Eugene scott, thank you for being with us. We appreciate it. Hope youll come back. Well read your new analysis piece thats called Melania Trump implores all to bebest but her husband nt listening. A Quinnipiac Poll said 91
persons believe the political divide is of a fegting communities, families and workplaces. Well be right back. It was the last song of the night. It felt like my heart was skipping beats. They said i had afib. Whats afib . I knew that meant i was at a greater risk of stroke. I needed answers. My doctor and i chose xarelto® to help keep me protected from a stroke. Oncedaily xarelto®, a latestgeneration Blood Thinner significantly lowers the risk of stroke in people with afib not caused by a heart valve problem. Warfarin interferes with at least 6 of your bodys natural bloodclotting factors. Xarelto® is selective, targeting just one critical factor. For afib patients well managed on warfarin, there is limited information on how xarelto® compares in reducing the risk of stroke. Dont stop taking xarelto® without talking to your doctor, as this may increase your risk of stroke. While taking, you may bruise more easily, or take longer for bleeding to stop. Xarelto® can cause serious, and in rare cases, fatal bleeding. It may increase your risk of bleeding if you take certain medicines. Get help right away for unexpected bleeding or unusual bruising. Do not take xarelto® if you have an Artificial Heart Valve or abnormal bleeding. Before starting, tell your doctor about all planned medical or dental procedures and any kidney or liver problems. Learn all you can to help protect yourself from a stroke. Talk to your doctor about xarelto®. Cbc. Cbc. Cbc. I. C. E. And cbc. Speaks perfect english. He speaks perfect english. Well get that later. Im so glad the president of the United States is finally showing the Congressional Black Caucus the respect that it deserves. Coming up lawyers for the White House Counsel Don Mcgahn insists he didnt incriminate the president in his extensive interviews with the Special Counsel. The Washington Post writer joins us. New reporting from the ap the Ongoing Investigation of the president s fixer could be on going. Well discuss Michael Cohens latest moves. Morning joe is coming right back. Making cars lighter, its a good place to start,
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so you have, your headphones, chair, new laptop, 24 7 tech support. Yep, thanks guys. I think he might need some support. Yes. Start them off right, with the School Supplies they need at low prices all summer long. Like these for only 2 or less at office depot officemax. Welcome back to morning joe. It is tuesday, august 21st, 2018. Still with us, we have National Affairs analyst for nbc news, while while. Got former aide to the george h. W. Bush white house and state department, elise jordan. Still awake history prove at Tulane UniversityWalter Isaacson. Also washington anchor for bbc world news america, katty kay. Lets bring into the conversation editoratlarge of
the weekly standard, bill krystol and Jeremy Peters. While whil whi i wouldnt call it challenging. Im familiar over the course of our decade long relationship, im familiar with most of our theories. Rare when i here you post a theory im not familiar with. This morning in the 6 00 hour you floated a theory that i never heard you propound previously and i know we both shared aversion to speculate but i invite to you speculate to explain your theory. Your theory trump will not run for reelection in 2020. Please explain. Well as far as speculation goes, first of all, you know, john, im so averse to speculation that the motto of this show is not all the news fit to print its all the speculation you can fit in three hours. This speculation comes from
speaking close to donald trump, people that worked with him on the last campaign, people that worked with him in the administration who say that the very essence of donald trump is being the strong guy. And if things continue to go bad, and lets say lets say that mark cuban decide to run against him in the republican primary and out trump trump, and you have avanatti, People Who Will Beat Trump up day in and day out. This is a guy who is not having a great time inside the white house. People close to donald trump told me months ago they wouldnt be surprised if he takes his one term and then goes back doing what hes all about, which is hes about making money. And he can say he was the 45th president of the United States. You know, the question is, does
donald trump want to enjoy being an expresident and trying to make as much money off of that as he can when hes 75 years old, or when hes closer to 80 . I just dont think for a man who is driven mainly by money, i dont think that hes going to want to sit around and get beaten up for eight years. I thought this theory would do something with the Mueller Investigation and trump deciding not run because it would be some way to avoid being impeached or indicted or Something Like that. My challenge to you is this. It seems to me that the theory that ive been going with for a while, trump would have to run for reelection assuming hes not impaved or driven from office from Something Else because the most that means to him is his victory in 2016. He wants to do it again. My own speculation, if he ran and won again in 2020 he would
quit in January Of 2021 because he has not in of being president for a second term but he really wants to win twice just to show all of us were wrong. Hes got 40 Approval Rating. He lost by almost 3 million votes in 2016. He knows, and he knew at the time that Hillary Clinton was going to be the weakest general election candidate he could face. Let me just ask you, i keep talking about bill clinton this morning. How many Percentage Points do you think bill clinton would have beaten donald trump by if you had Bill Clinton In Peak Form in 1992 form against donald trump in 2016 . Ill even say george h. W. Bush. George h. W. Bush would have Cut Donald Trump up into a thousand pieces on the debate stage ten seconds in. Barack obama that would have been an ugly election as well. You could look everybody is
acting like donald trump is this unicorn and hes this remarkable political figure who is just going to win president ial elections. Hes not. He lost by 3 million votes. He lost to, again, i will say one of the least effective politicians on the National Stage in recent memory. And there is there is no 2020 reelection. Theres just not. And that may be why donald trump is playing for his hard core third because he knows hes not going to face reelection. Im the only person in the world speculating this right now other than people that are close to donald trump and just dont think hes going to put up with the possibility of getting walloped in 2020 . But, you know, i could be totally wrong. But, again, it is just complete speculation. Barack obama, george h. W. Bush, bill clinton all in peak form against donald trump in 2016 looks a lot to me like reaganmondale, a vast wipe out. Even those environments at 55 in the popular vote in a National Election any of those three gentlemen who have been north of 55 against trump. Without a doubt. Mookie betts beating against a singlea ball player. Bill krystol has this cutter. A very awkward wind up that throws every batter off. But krystol just follows harvard baseball. He doesnt follow i like the red sox, actually. Im glad i showed up here. Want to start off in a jovial way. On joes theory i dont think its ridiculous he might not
run. Its a century since coolidge is the last president who knows not to run for reelection in 1928. Two others since then didnt, truman and johnson who could have. They were eligible for another term. They didnt because they had primary challenges. I do think this New Hampshire poll that shows half of republicans and more independents are open to an alternative to trump is interesting. Someone will run against trump. Maybe a spoiler candidate. A more serious candidate. Mccarthy looked like a spoiler in 1966 but it turned out he did a lot of damage to lbj. Thats an important there needs a primary challenge. He can look at that and decide gees ill go through a bunch of primaries, ill probably win then be wounded and than general election. Because you know your party pretty well, given you said
there might be a spoiler candidate, given trumps popularity within the Republican Party which is historic, is there a plausible republican that could give him a run . Sure. If you look at these focus groups a lot of people say they approve of trump. Half of those are core supporters. Yeah i approve some things. I doppler like the judges. I like the tax cuts. When they are pushed, they are off trump, Trump Supporters. They dont like the attacks on trump. But when ask after this election, after november 6th youre in with an additional four years of trump. A lot of people said well, i dont know. Hes done pretty well. Hes disrupted. Its unfair. Another four years thats risky. Maybe its time for someone else. Hes done a good job. I do think joe says he could declare victory having disrupted things, had some trade negotiations that worked out okay. No great Foreign Policy disasters. Gets his conservative judges appointed. Not crazy at that point. All im saying is i think there are more voters open to an alternative to trump in 2020 than you think if you look at the current numbers of approval. Republicans . The poll shows republicans overwhelmingly 78 in New Hampshire approving of trump. 47 say that they Shouldnt Challenge Him in 2020. You could say, i approve of trump so far but im not so sure i approve for an additional four years. Joe, i picked up on your comment earlier. I was hoping to have a trump free holiday. Thats impossible. Everybody is still asking about him the whole time. Of course the thing they are asking is what happens in 2020 . Now the counter to your theory is you raised bill clinton, george bush, barack obama all potentially good campaigners. The democrats dont have that yet on their side. Done trump look at the democratic field, think this is a weak field still, and i just cant accept the idea of not running and winning. That desire in him you spoke about it earlier, hes not a businessman, hes a dale maker. He likes the win. He likes crushing his opponents. If he looks at the democratic field and the democratic field looks as weak as it does today wouldnt that temptation be too strong for him . At this point in 2000 it would have been 2010 or im sorry 2006. Nobody believed barack obama was going to win the democratic nomination from Hillary Clinton. But barack obama did. Also donald trump is more afraid
of losing than he is desirous of winning. And going out a loser at 75, 76 years of age, is not what donald trump wants to do. And it also you got to go back to the fact that nobody was more surprised that donald trump won than donald trump. He did not think he was going to win on election night. He thought that he was going to, you know, turn this campaign into in fact, i dont think he ever really thought he would get out of the republican nomination fight. He thought jeb bush was going to win and maybe run an independent spoiler for his old friend Hillary Clinton who was his old friend. Who went to his wedding. This guy was a lifetime democrat. Again he could have used that independent Maverick Position to start up his own news network,
which of course, we thought he would be starting breitbart tv or trump tv after he lost in 2016. If youre right about this, joe, every nato ally countrys main newspaper will be running it as their Headline News because this is music to ears of americas allies. Its all wild speculation, but Walter Isaacson people close to barack obama in 2010 the job was miserable. It was nothing he expected. Nothing michele expected. If they could, without, you know, without historical consequences left town after republicans took control of congress in 2010, 2011, he would have done it but for the sense of responsibility that he felt to himself to history. The presidency has become such a
brutal job, even if you win reelection, even if your bill clinton or george w. Bush or barack obama, those are eight miserable, eight tough miserable years. Yes we reward him in many ways. But with the 24 7 news culture, three hour tv shows like this talking about politics all the time, twitter 24 hours a day. Facebook 24 hours a day, if youre donald trump and you can walk away to your first love which is making money, why not do it . Youve become somewhat convincing on this subject, joe. Ill say that i dont think not that i have inside information i dont think it crossed President Obamas mind that strongly maybe i shouldnt run again. Because he had a deep feeling and conviction for what he was doing for the country, for history and what he believed in. Im not sure theres a deep belief in many things that trump
wants to accomplish in his second four years in office. So, theres something convincing about that. I dont believe he would be scared out of a race by a tough opponent. That would, i think, get his competitive juices flowing. But if he can say ive done what i can do in four years and not have to spend up to being almost 80 years old in that office, that makes some sense to me. Yeah. Again, wild speculation, but fun wild speculation. Go ahead. Can i be a quick contrarian voice her. I disagree with you that donald trump loves making money above all else. I think he loves himself above all else so giving up being the focus of the 24 7 news cycle and have Everybody Fawning over his tweets, i think its difficult the drug of all that attention
for donald trump to ever walk away from voluntarily. And there is the pin in the balloon. Forget everything we just said. And listen to what elise said. So we talked about this report that White House Counsel Don Mcgahn gave the Special Counsel valuable insights to president tru trumps comments and the actions that he did that could have fed to obstruction of Justice Charges but nbc news is reporting that mcgahns legal team told trumps lawyers the high ranking advice orwould have resigned if he thought he witnessed a crime. Yet a source familiar with the matter adds theres no way of knowing exactly how mcgahns testimony may fit with other evidence that Robert Mueller has. Meanwhile the Washington Post is reporting that mcgahns lawyer reassured the president about his comments to investigators in his three lengthy interviews since last november. Quote, he did not incriminate
him, mcgahns attorney wrote in one email to trumps lawyers which was described by multiple people. But mcgahn and burke declined to comment. Lets grinning in Investigative Reporter for the Washington Post and msnbc contributor. What can you tell us about the reports . Reporter a lot of hub bub have these cooperating witnesses had to say to Robert Mueller starting when they were interviewed in the late summer and late fall of last year and continuing this spring. And don mcgahn, as you all know, is a fairly important character because hes inside the meetings. Hes in the room where it happens. And so theres been some concern over the weekend about what did he exactly say to mueller, and over the weekend his lawyer, don mcgahns lawyer assured the president s team, my guy did not
incriminate the president , stop worrying, theres no there there. Im curious, the timing of this story seems, i dont want to say fishy but seems its the kind of thing that has the fingerprints of a leak all over it. First mcgahn story comes out, New York Times over the weekend and the president is upset about it and they are trying to contain the potential fallout from that story and say actually its all fine, none of this is out of our control, it went according to plan, good idea to let mcgahn talk to mueller. Doesnt this feel orchestrated to you, not necessarily untrue but kind of a purposeful covered response to a sense of things spiraling Out Of Control over the course of the weekend . So, yes and no. I think the subtext here is theres a battle going on between two sides that didnt agree with each other about the
cooperation early on. That trumps early lawyers agreed to which is give mueller everything he wants, give him all the records, sends him all our staffers. Theres great disagreement, don mcgahn did not like that idea when it was begun. However, the stories over the weekend dont really tell us anything new. So its hard to know what the hul hullaboo is about. We know in November Of 2017 don mcgahn of sitting down for all day interviews, two backtoback in november and december and we knew he was sitting down to talk about the key moments he knew the most about. How did trump react about firing fbi director james comey . What was he saying before he did it . What was he saying to don mcgahn in private about his interest in firing Robert Mueller . His interest in getting jeff
sessions the attorney general to retain supervision of the russia probe. You remember how angry the president was when sessions recused himself. So thats really not new. And shouldnt be a surprise to anyone. All right. So bill krystol, let me ask you, how do you think Robert Mueller is doing right now . Youve got a manafort case thats stumbling along. I still cant figure out what the judge has been doing in that case, continually mocking the prosecution and not sequestering the jury. That aside where is the Mueller Investigation . Papadopoulos may be backing out of his plea deal. Manafort may have a hung jury. I mean we obviously have found out that the russians tried to hack our elections and did some very bad things and theyve been indicted. How does this go back to the president . What has mueller shown us . We dont know. What we do know i disagree with carol a little bit. He spent 30 hours with mcgahn, 20 hours with priebus, 20 hours with bannon. He knows what happened in the white house, whether theres enough to either indict, i guess mueller probably believes you shouldnt indict a sitting president. Thats coming from the trump team. We dont know what muellers legal teams judgment. It would be in the report that goes to congress. We just dont know. I think mueller knows what hes doing. I very much dislike this attempt to second guess stuff when its a black box for us. Theres public support which i am concerned because trump has done a pretty good job from his Point Of View in muddying the waters and getting people impatient about the Mueller Investigation and doubtful about it. I say theres enough support. People want it to end. The polling shows this. They dont want trump to fire mueller and they want him to finish the investigation which
hell do. How much well know in the next two weeks with cohen possibly flipping, Manafort Verdict kwoeb in a different place two weeks from now than we are today and i just keep coming back i have no inside knowledge. People think they are doing important work. These are not people who are incredibly close and disciplined about not saying anything. They dont look like people trujing through something they signed on to do and checking the box here for the last few months that they have to do it. I think they are doing important work for this country and that they are, that doesnt mean they necessarily will find stuff that incriminates the president. I have high regard for mueller. Carol, speak being of 24 7 operation, this is a 24 7 operation. Muellers team is a 24 7 operation. And you look at the 30 hours he spoke with mcgahn and he spoke
with Reince Priebus and again so many people. I heard one person after another who went in and questioned by muellers team coming out and telling them around him mueller knew more what was going on in the Trump White House than he did. That Hes Pieced Absolutely Everything together. I guess the remaining questions are whether there are indictable offenses in there. Absolutely. Thats the key question. I dont think bill and i actually disagree that much about this issue. I see mueller as head down black box, i agree there. However, whats really interesting about what you just said, actually, joe, is mueller knew better than the witnesses what had happened. He has their contnotes, he has memo steve miller before he fired comey and the memos that
various people wrote after they fired comey, explaining what trump was saying. There are differences between them. It seems to me the issue about indictable offenses has already been resolved. Mueller is not going to and has told the president s lawyers in a couple of different ways that he does not plan to charge the president with a crime. But in his report to Rod Rosenstein, it seems like he wouldnt spend this many hours with people if he werent going say what behavior you found that was troubling. It may be that this troubling behavior, potential of Obstruction Of Justice is criminal, it rises 0 that level and hell lay out the evidence for Rod Rosenstein to decide should you refer this to congress. Thats the remedy in our constitution. Is it serious enough that you have to let congress resolve this . Right. Okay. All right. That, at the end of the day, carol, i guess, thats the reporting that hes not thinking about indicting the president of the United States just getting the information to congress. Thank you for your reporting, carol. And bill krystol, thank you as well for being with us and i didnt know you were a red sox fan. Its not harvard baseball, joe, but still boston. Its nearby. You can still walk over to fenway park so its good. Do you care to curse certain republicans chances moving forward by saying who you would like to run against donald trump in 2020 in the primary . One or more. Trump has set a low bar of what i will accept. In the old days i had these
preferences. A sane republican would be good. A sane republican. Well write that down. You sort of expanding it. Narrowing your opportunity. Thank you, bill for being with us. Still ahead on morning joe President Trump says he would most likely meet again with north Korean Leader kim jongun and eyeing a second summit with vladimir putin. Well bring in a member of the Foreign Relation Committee next on morning joe. And we promise to get Jeremy Peters here as well. Hes got a great new Piece Reporting on what todays politics is doing to families and communities. Youre watching morning joe. Well be right back. I saw my leg did not look right. I landed. I was just finishing a ride. I felt this awful pain in my chest. I had a Pe Blood Clot in my lung. I was scared. I had a dvt blood clot. Having one really puts you in danger of having another. My doctor and i chose xarelto®. Xarelto®. To help keep me protected. Xarelto® is a latestgeneration Blood Thinner thats. Proven to treat and reduce the risk of dvt or Pe Blood Clots from happening again. In clinical studies, almost 98 of patients on xarelto® did not experience another dvt or pe. Xarelto® works differently. Warfarin interferes with at least 6 of your bodys natural bloodclotting factors. Xarelto® is selective, targeting just one critical factor. Dont stop taking xarelto® without talking to your doctor, as this may increase risk of blood clots. While taking, you may bruise more easily, or take longer for bleeding to stop. Xarelto® can cause serious, and in rare cases, fatal bleeding. It may increase your risk of bleeding if you take certain medicines. Get help right away for unexpected
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senator jeff merkley of oregon. Thank you for being with us. You said something that caught my attention about donald trump and his selection for the Supreme Court. You believe that the president of the United States shouldnt even be able to nominate a justice at the Supreme Court at this point because hes under investigation. Explain that. Well right now theres this enormous Conflict Of Interest in which the president is under investigation yet hes nominating an individual who will essentially play a significant role in questions like can the president pardon himself or can the president fire the special prosecutor. It isnt so much that he cant nominate but i dont think its appropriate for the senate to proceed with these hearings until this investigation is cleared up. Senator, this is Walter Isaacson. Youve been talking about a resolution dealing with putin,
the russian investigation. What do you think the senate should be doing now when it comes to the president s meetings with putin, when it comes to this russia investigation . Yes. I really believe that it is not a good moment for the president to be meeting alone with putin after his performance overseas. We have a lot of concern about transparency in u. S. Foreign policy and this again ties into fact that the president is under investigation for potentially coordinating, collaborating with russia. Senator merkley, elise jordan here, you have been at the forefront of pushing the Trump Administration to do something to resolve their income period ten and inhumane child separation policy. What is happening now that the Trump Administration has missed the Court Ordered deadline by i believe about three weeks and are you having any luck pushing your reunite act . Well, were in the situation now where more than 500 children
have not been united with their parents and this does go directly to the callous incompetence of the administration in failing to track the connection between the parents and the children. Now the administration had a strategy, it was using periodically of saying to individuals well deport you, your children will have the choice of staying here to have an asylum hearing and putting the family in an impossible situation. The court has now blocked that, which is a step towards families being kept together but we still dont have a resolve for all these children who have been separated. Even more troubling, at this very moment there are more than 30 republicans who have signed on to a bill to establish Internment Camps in the United States of america and thats just absolutely unacceptable. I will fight that in every possible way i can. Senator merkley, after you came back from the border, you told me many of your republican
colleagues said to you that they really didnt like this policy of separation, but that they western prepared to speak up against it. Have you noticed any kind of shift over the last few weeks, particularly perhaps as they go home, they look at the polls, they hear how unhappy even republican supporters are with this policy of family separation. Your hoping that maybe some of your republican colleagues now might join you on this . Im continuing to hope, but my colleagues continue to say we just cant really speak out publicly in a way that confronts trump. Trump is too popular with our base back home. And to be unable to speak out on something such as inflicting trauma on children really is disturbing. It shows extraordinary strange period of american politics were in that adult men and women serving in the senate are afraid to speak out on such a horrific policy. All right senator jeff
merkley, thank you so much for being with us. We appreciate it. And now as promised we go Jeremy Peters. His recent reporting for the New York Times look at how the states of todays politics are impacting americans every day lives. You write in part this. High tension, raw emotion and occasional violence have always been a feature of american democracy. But politics is changing how americans think and by the way heavy in new and unsettling ways. The volume and sheer ubiquity of information about politics combined with americans ability to instantaneously render public judgment on one anothers views has made the political conversation much noisier. For the first time the country is led by someone who inflames that conversation on a nearly daily basis. I think, jeremy, so many of us have actually experienced this in our personal lives. Ive heard a lot of people talk to me how their families just dont talk about politics any more. Tell us what you found out there. I was in a focus group with frank luntz that he was conducting back in april. It was really one of the most telling moments ive had in kind of observing voters this year. He asked a question how many of you have stopped speaking to a Family Member or friend as a result of politics in this last president ial election . Close to half the hands in the room went up. And i thought that was extraordinary. I never seen anything like that. And it kind of underscores the extent to which donald trump is not just somebody who divides us politically, he divides us emotionally, socially, culturally, and when i start to dig a little bit deep near to the research thats been done on this subject of political division, which by the way is this Cottage Industry of polling
and Political Research now because political scientists said its never been this bad. What you start to see is research pointing towards the fact that people no longer look at politics as politics. They look at it as a reflection of someones values. So if i disagree with you, joe, on your politic, youre not just somebody who sees things differently than me. Youre somebody whose values are abhorrent to me. Who i reject. Somebody i see as almost less of a human being. So when we went around and talked to families and solicited from our website stories about people who ended relationships because of politics, or people who had disruption in their work productivity, or relationships with neighbors in their communities that had frayed because of fighting over donald trump. You know, what we saw is that this is incredibly common and its only getting worse. So, elise, let me talk to you for a couple of reasons. First you worked for george w. Bush. If you had any friends, it could be interesting at thanksgiving like it was during the gulf war and certainly after the recount and the Supreme Court decision. Things were intense then. But they have changed. I know for you and for me we grew up in the deep south, i grew up in georgia, alabama, mississippi, northwest florida, and you know most of the people in my quote tribe, are Trump Supporters. Im wondering what you when you go home i know when i go home, i say hey we can talk baseball lets talk about kids, lets talk about grandkids, i dont want to talk about politics. So ill just sit and i know its hard to believe and listen. What about you . Are you finding dinner with friend in mississippi a little tougher . Well, specifically with my family, i just heard from so many of them. They are sick of talking about donald trump period just because hes sucked up so much of the oxygen justin national conversation. While george w. Bush was president he might not have been universally popular but it wasnt the Singular Obsession of the country to dissect george w. Bush every second and it wasnt with barack obama either except maybe over at fox news. Jeremys report is very important because hes identifying something that ive seen over the course of the last two years, doing focus groups with Lord Ashcroft polls and thats just the rupture that this election has had on friendships, on family, how people feel very silenced about their political views especially if they are a trump supporter that they cant necessarily share those views because of the
judgment that they will receive and the negative judgment that they will receive. So at this point it really seems so much more cultural than anything about politic, and so thats my question for jeremy, do you think that this is even, that the Trump Presidency has become more of a cultural moment than a political one . Oh, absolutely. I mean, i think its really both. Its been so disruptive and divisive on both front. I mean you have really what is a culture war going on, on one side, and a political realignment on the other where the Republican Party is becoming something completely different than what weve come to know it as over the last generation. I think one of the other interesting aspects of my reporting here, i was doing research and talking to the scientists who studied this phenomenon and i can underscore how new this is for these political scientists because really they have just never seen this level of divide at such a
high level. Its this idea that gender im sorry, that partisan identification trumps characteristics like gender, race, so youre more likely to be divided from someone based on how you identify, whether republican or democrat whether youre a man or a woman or ema s christian or a jew. Politics have seeped into our identity because people do see their opponents political beliefs, friends political believes as a reflection of their personal character. John heilemann, i hear this at dinner tables. I support donald trump, i dont want to talk about this. It just exhausts me. Which feeds into what bill krystol was saying, some republicans may support donald
trump right now out of loyalty and tribalism, but just like democrats are tribal, but they dont know if they want to put up with it for another four years because it is exhausting. Yeah. I think, you know, theres no doubt this is an exhausting time in our politics. You have people talking about civility in politics being important and they would like have more rational discourse but still spend a lot of time yelling at their opponents. Theres contradictions built into this. One thing that jeremy is talking about, writing about here is this notion that it helps explain, this notion that trump is as much of a cultural phenomenon as he is as a political phenomenon helps explain one of the great mysteries of this era. What happened to your Republican Party . How can it be that donald trump is so popular in a party where he stands for nothing, almost nothing of the ideas, the
ideology, the policies that the party has historically stood for . Its because the notion of ideas and ideology and policies have now become divorced from partisan politics and much more about emotion and grievance and values and about a sense of cultural opposition rather than sort of we believe in free trade, we believe in anticommunism, we believe in tax cuts. Its a tribal and cultural thing more than it is a thing about, again, about ideals and policies and politics in some ways. Well you can talk about my party. You can also talk about my church. Evangelicals, my god what they were criticizing with bill clinton 20 years ago and said disqualified bill clinton from even being a local dog catcher now certainly is just fine with them. But this is an interesting time were marching through, but well get through it together. Jeremy peters, thank you so much. Still ahead, Michael Cohen is reportedly being investigated for bank and tax fraud. Does the president s former fixer have a 20 million reason to flip . I think he does. Well talk about that ahead on morning joe. A hotel can make or break a trip. And at expedia, we dont think you should be rushed into booking one. Thats why we created expedias addon advantage. Now after booking your flight, you unlock discounts on select hotels right until the day you leave. Addon advantage. Discounted hotel rates when you add on to your trip. Only when you book with expedia. So President Trump tweeted Michael Cohen the former fixer of trump denied a story in omarosas new book. A reunion on the horizon. Our next guest says not so fast. We have emily jane fox. We also have John Heilemann. Theres a lot of speculation in the news of late like cohen, maybe cohen has been cooperating for a while p. M. Seems hes gone quiet in the last, i mean more quieter than usual. The stories emanating from cohen world, have slowed. I sense something is going on. Its interesting. There was that tweet about omarosas book. There was chatter in that world that has reaction to that book,
him talking to 0 ma roso, tweeting, denying the story in the book. Last week he was with his children, sort of business as usual. All this speculation that cohen has been cooperating with investigators for weeks that to me from my reporting is untrue. But there is a quiet that has set in in the last couple of days, and i think that is worth noting. And, again, weve been doing a lot of speculating on the air this morning. I will ask you, just because your speculation on cohen world as as important as anyones speculation. If thats right, if a quiet has settled, a hush has settled over Michael Cohen and the people around Michael Cohen, what does it suggest to . Look, we know from reporting that investigators are starting to decide whether or not this is someone who is going to cooperate, if theyre going to offer him an agreement, or if theyre going to indict him. So there is a quiet because theyre figuring out which of those two roads Michael Cohen is going to be able to go down, and i dont think theres a sense in
the people who are closest to him, most familiar with his thinking they want to jeopardize anything. So theyre being very careful deliberately not to jeopardize an ability to avoid a very public arrest or to be able to cooperate if thats what he decides to do, if thats what the government decides to offer him. Sometimes were reduced to reading the tweet leaves so to speak. I notice that trump retweeted something that cohen what did you make of that . It is interesting. The president and his attorneys had spent weeks assassinating cohens character, calling him the most uncredible man in the world, calling him pathological. But when it serves President Trump, of course, Michael Cohen denying the story in omarosas book is credible, worth retweeting. It is a valuable and viable character witness. What we saw was the president using people the way it serves him. Thats the way he always operates with people in his world. All right. Emily, thanks so much. Stay with us if you can. Were going to be talking more
about this ahead with the former federal prosecutor from the Manhattan Office who is investigating cohen. Also, the latest developments in the Paul Manafort trial and the George Papadopolous plea deal. Plus, more from the president s wideranging interview with reuters, including his belief he can take over muellers investigation if he wants to. Good luck with that. Morning joe coming right back. vo this is not a video game. This is not a screensaver. This is the destruction of a cancer cell by the bodys
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republicans and democrats going into the fall. Plus, it is day four. I cant believe weve gotten to day four, but it is day four of jury deliberations in the trial of Paul Manafort. Is that a reason for prosecutors to be worried . Morning joe coming back in just a couple of minutes to talk about all of that and much more in a packed hour straight ahead. If your moderate to Severe Ulcerative Colitis or crohns symptoms are holding you back, and your Current Treatment hasnt worked well enough it may be time for a change. Ask your doctor about entyvio®, the only biologic developed and approved just for uc and crohns. Entyvio® works at the site of inflammation in the gi tract, and is clinically proven to help many patients achieve both symptom relief and remission. Infusion and serious allergic reactions can happen during or after treatment. Entyvio® may increase risk of infection, which can be serious. Pml, a rare, serious, potentially fatal brain infection caused by a virus may be possible. Tell your doctor if you have an infection experience frequent infections or have flulike symptoms, or sores. Liver problems can occur with entyvio®. If your uc or crohns treatment isnt working for you,
ask your gastroenterologist about entyvio®. Entyvio®. Relief and remission within reach. Important summit on Cyber Bullying prevention. He tweeted that again this morning, which the safe and responsible use of social media. Who else the president has tweeted about this weekend . Six times, a guy named bruce ohr. But also be destructive and harmful when used incorrectly. He has been venting his frustration in a series of ten tweets over the last 24 hours. Conduct themselves safely in a positive manner in an online setting. One of the many tweets from the president , he must be a john deantype, quote, rat. To reduce peertopeer bullying through kindness and open communication. A particular lay sharp jab at the Special Counsel directly calling mueller, quote, disgraced and discredited. Lets face it. Most children are more aware of the benefits and pitfalls of social media than some adults. Oh, my goodness. See, i cant figure it out. Now, is she is she completely clueless or is she trolling the man that she is married to . I think it is the latter. That was the first lady making remarks at a summit to, quote, discourage online bullying. She did that yesterday. Asked about the contradictory message, the first ladys office said in a statement that she is, quote, aware of the criticism but it will not deter her from doing what she feels is right. The president is proud of her commitment to children and encourages her in all that she does. Good morning and welcome to morning joe. It is tuesday, august 21st. Yeah, sort of like he encouraged don mcgahn to do all he did when he was talking to Robert Mueller. Weve got a packed show today. We have National Affairs analyst for nbc news and msnbc, john
heilman. I just have to ask you, is she trolling the president there or is she just completely separated from the realities of how her husband spends every waking moment when he has free time . There are many questions like that, joe, that are what i like to call false binaries. Theyre not either ors but an and buts. If you look at history and the way Melania Trump and the way she has handled herself while the husband has been in the oval office, i would say she is trolling her husband. She has been known to take a few subtle shots at him. Seems as this if might be one of them. We have former aide to george w. Bush white house and state departments, elise jordan. We have professor of history at
Tulane University, walter iefson. And White House Correspondent for reuters, the man who just interviewed President Trump on a number of topics, jeff mason. One much those okayintopics is interesting answer from the president on the ongoing Mueller Probe. We will get to that in a moment. I want to show you, walter, and we will get everybody else to comment on this because you have seen a few polls before. Theres a new national Monmouth University poll that shows just 35 of americans say the country is on the right track. 57 say it is on the wrong track. Thats a ninepoint swing in the negative direction since june. Well get to other parts of the poll in a second. But that right track wrong track, how important is that as we go into offyear elections, when were picking who will be running the house and the senate . I think right track wrong
track is a very important indicator. That, and theres often polling numbers of does this guy or this person, this Candidate Fight for people like you, those are the type of polls that i find are a little bit more credible. What is astonishing to me is that it can be down at 35 when the economy on its surface and in its aggregate numbers is doing so well. I would ask an expert like john heilman or something, have you ever seen right track being 35 when unemployment is below 4 . And since i think the economic numbers wont always be as good, this could really tumble down if there starts to be any blips in the economy, especially from this continued china trade dispute which could, you know, start bringing down the economy a little bit. So, joe, since walter invited me to comment, i will. That 35 number will be familiar to you because ive heard you mention it on some occasions over the last 18 months. It is the number, if you look at all of the polling that we all of the polling we have looked at since donald trump has been in office and you had to ask, whats the honest assessment of what trump core base is, you would say, as you have many times, it is about 35 . So were looking at right track wrong track as walter says is often a useful thing in polling. But what we have learned is it essentially tracks not the Approval Rating of the president but where the base is at. No matter what else is going on, those are the people who think the country is on the right track because theyre just with the president. 35 , thats the trump base right there. You are looking at it. Those people dont care about the russia probe, they dont care about Whats Going On in north korea. They dont particular care about nato. They dont care about anything donald trump is doing or what we say in the media. Those are the people who think no matter what theyre with donald trump, and if donald
trump is in office the country is on the right track. But the question i have is can you ever chip away at Donald Trumps pure base . I mean all sorts of things have happened and that 35 , it is like chiselled in marble. Well, you know, i dont a lot of times democrats dont like me to bring it up, but there was about, you know, 33 , 35 , 38 that would have said anything about george w. Bush from 2001 to 2009. So i think that third, you know, maybe that 33 , that 35 is set hard and will be set hard, but, elise jordan, when you look at the people that are going to be getting out and voting, like i always talk about the women that we had reports were standing in the rain in Northern Virginia or black voters across whats called the black belt in alabama during that special election, you look at the cross tabs
there, it is probably much lower for the people who are the most likely to vote this fall, the people that are most motivated by what has happened. Motivated in a negative sense by what has happened since donald trump became president on january 20th, 2017. Well, no, im most fascinated by watching collegeeducated voters and women voters across the country, and are they going to be was their vote a protest vote against Hillary Clinton or are they actually going to turn out and be motivated by donald trump and the way he is governing . As of now, my bet is that they arent and weve seen that in a lot of the special elections, and certainly in the suburban districts. But you look at, especially what happened in alabama, too, and black women in alabama really saved the day with that election. So women across the country, it is going to be interesting to see how they actually come out and vote, if theyre motivated to do so. Let me get to another part of the poll. The president , of course, as we all know always repeatedly claims, and claimed on the campaign trail, that he hires the best people and that he would hire the best people if elected president. But with four exadvisers indicted, three of those pleading guilty, his former Campaign Chairman on trial right now, a former aide in open revolt, monmouth posed this question in its latest survey. Does donald trump hire the best people . Here we actually cracked that, a lower third, with 30 said yes but a majority, 58 , said no. On a serious note here, catie when we get lets move beyond this fall and if donald trump decides to run for reelection, and actually count me as one of the fee people who don few pee who dont believe he will. But if donald trump decides to run for reelection, thats when
americans take a serious look at whoever is sitting in the oval office and they ask, does he or she have the Leadership Qualities that we need to run america . Part of Donald Trumps schtick was, ive run this big business, you know, this, that and the other. That was his big schtick, i know how to run things, i hire the best people. This actually is a good peek into, lets just say, a preview of 2020 and the type of attacks that donald trump would face if he did seek reelection. Well, look, donald trump has lost 5 of that 35 on that question of whether he hires the best people because of all of the drama in the white house and the comings and goings in the white house, and repeatedly when you ask Trump Supporters over the course of the last year and a half, what are the things you dont like about the way the president is handling the office, it is the drama. It is all of the white house chaos. Trump himself feeds into that when he criticizes his own choices, when he talks repeatedly about Jeff Sessions
as somebody who is not the best person for that job. Well, who hired Jeff Sessions for that job . That was donald trump who hired him for that job. So he undermines his own message that he hires the best people, and you combine that with the fact that we know that there are a raft of people who dont actually want to go into the white house were donald trump to run for the second term or were the call to be made to them because it is too toxic and they fear for their own reputations. It is not surprising people are starting to think, yeah, this is perhaps not the best, the smoothest management operation we have ever seen in the history of the white house. Yeah, and yet, Walter Isaacson, you are heading back to louisiana, Hurricane Season and all pretty soon. When you head back there, when i head back to my home state of florida, i will talk to a lot of people who say, i dont like how he tweets, i sure dont like how he cozies up to vladimir putin, i dont like what hes doing with nato, makes me nervous the way he is talking about mueller,
but the economy is doing better than it has ever done before, my Small Business is doing better than it has ever done before and, hey, the country is strong. They will be able to put up with some of the president s crazy tweets, im still supporting him, there are people who tune out all of Donald Trumps excesses and just look at their individual lives and say, hey, things are going pretty darn well for me. I think thats actually more true here in new york. You have people who are totally appalled by his character and yet they work on wall street or whatever and theyre very happy about the way hes treated the rich and the investment class in this country. If you go back to when i go back to louisiana and spending time there, there are really two or three types of people. The Business Leaders in louisiana depend a lot on trade. When the amount of soybeans going through the Port Of New Orleans is down 30 or the companies in louisiana cant
import aluminum and steel to make the products theyre doing, there is an uncertainty now about donald trump among Business Leaders in places like new orleans. On the other hand, in a lot of rural louisiana theres just a Deep Contempt for anybody who would speak ill of donald trump, and they are really still very strongly in your face that donald trump is setting this country right. Still ahead on morning joe, President Trump is certain he could take over the Mueller Investigation, and not so certain that russia hacked the president ial election in 2016. Those two takeaways are from his reuters interview yesterday, and we will break it down next on morning joe. First here is bill karins with a check on the forecast. Bill. Joe, a couple of things. We are watching Severe Weather threading in through areas of the east and we have a growing threat of a hurricane hitting
hawaii. Lets talk about the Severe Weather threat because this is imminent because it is occurring now and later this afternoon. Showers and thunderstorms rolling through the great lakes. Cleveland, it is about to pour on your morning commute. Also we had showers to the west of d. C. In Northern Virginia. So later today after we get a little more heating out there during the day, we will have about 16 Million People at risk of severe storms today from cleveland to buffalo to erie, pittsburgh, even areas of virginia. Notice i95 from norfolk to richmond to d. C. , you are in the marginal risk. I think you will get storms between 5 00 and 8 00 p. M. , but they will be hit and miss. Not everyone will be named. Lets talk about the hurricane heading possibly for hawaii. It is about 500 miles away from the big island, about 700 miles from honolulu, and it has shifted a little closer to the big island. All of the island chain is in the forecast uncertainty, the cone we call it. This is the time. We have thursday into friday it is a category four now. It will be about a category two or three when it is closest to the big island. Still a possibility of a big impact or a glancing blow. We will figure out in the next 24 hours. New york, 75 degrees and sunny today. Really a nice little early taste of fall in the air after a very wet and humid august. Well take it. You are watching morning joe. We will be right back. So you have, your headphones, chair, new laptop, 24 7 tech support. Yep, thanks guys. I think he might need some support. Yes. Start them off right, with the School Supplies they need at low prices all summer long. Like these for only 2 or less
at office depot officemax. These are the specialists were proud to call our own. Experts from all over the world, working closely together to deliver truly personalized cancer care. Expert medicine works here. Learn more at cancercenter. Com are you one sneeze away from being voted out of the carpool . Try zyrtec®. Its starts working hard at hour one. And works twice as hard when you take it again the next day. Stick with zyrtec® and muddle no more®. Reported weight loss. Your doctor should monitor your weight and may stop treatment. Other side effects include upper respiratory tract infection and headache. Tell your doctor about all the medicines you take and if youre pregnant or planning to be. Otezla. Show more of you. This wifi is fast. I know i know i know i know when did brian move back in . Brians back . He doesnt get my room. Hes only going to be here for like a week. Like a month, tops. Oh boy. Wifi fast enough for the whole family is simple, easy, awesome. In many cultures, young men would stay with their families until their 40s. Now to that reuters interview in which the president said that he could personally take over the probe into russian interference in the 2016 election. An investigation in which several of his own former aides have been charged. The president said the administration was, quote, a smoothRunning Machine, except in that world. And ive decided to stay out. Now, i dont have to stay out. I can go in and i could do whatever. I could run it if i want, but i decided to stay out, the president said. Im totally allowed to be involved if i wanted to be. So far, i havent chosen to be
involved. Ill stay out. The president also expressed doubt about the findings of u. S. Intelligence, saying, the probe, quote, played right into the russians, if it was russia, they played right into russians hands. Jeff, you interviewed the president. What was your takeaway . Well, that was certainly one of the more interesting parts of the interview. We covered a lot of ground, but in that particular piece, the fact he portrayed it as a choice whether or not to be involved in the Mueller Probe and whether he could run it was really interesting, and the fact that just in that and you showed the clip right there on the screen, and just kind of in the clause of a sentence as he was talking about russia that he inserted a little bit of doubt as to whether or not they were responsible for election meddling in 2016. It goes to show that that is still an issue that he is not convinced about. It is still an issue, catie, despite the fact that every single intel chief that he himself hired and he hires
only the best people, every one of them said it was russia. Yeah, i mean it is amazing how months after the helsinki summit and all of the fuss and criticism the president got after that, having to robaw bac his own comments publicly, which he hated doing about whether he thought it was russia, and here he is in this reuters Interview Saying perhaps it wasnt russia. He doesnt seem to be able to bring himself conclusively to say it was russia, end of story. Given this opportunity, he rose back on it again. You know, i was surprised also to hear him say that he might take the opportunity to revoke muellers Security Clearance. He hadnt really thought about it but wasnt ruling that out as a possibility. Yeah, no doubt about it. Walter isaacson has a question for you. Walter. Yes. Ive been reading this story that will be released this
morning from microsoft in which brad smith, the General Counsel there and others, are releasing a report saying that microsoft has discovered all sorts of russian fake accounts, fake sites, that are there right now to hack the midterms. If the president of the United States keeps sort of half defending russia and saying, women, were not even sure they did it, is the government doing things that will try to protect us against russia hacking the mid terms or are we just going to have to rely on private corporations like microsoft . Thats a good question and it comes down to kind of that divide between his advisers and what they say and what the president himself says. Now, his advisers came out into the white house Briefing Room just several weeks ago and said that russia remained a threat and remained a threat in 2018. They started detailing all of the things that the Trump Administration is doing to go against, sort of protect the
u. S. Election from this kind of meddling. But it gets undermined and their confidence in what they are saying is undermined by the fact that the president continues to make comments like the one he did to us in our interview yesterday. Jeff, heilman here. We saw this extraordinary outburst on the president s part. He had twitter tirades in the past, this one was extended. There were 14 tweets he let go after the mcgahn news came out. Im mostly curious beyond the news and your excellent interview with him, is how did he seem . He seemed in social media, i think even if you are a completely neutral observer, he seems a little unhinged. Does he seem unhinged in the room . Thats a good question, too. He didnt seem unhinged in the room, no, but he did start out the interview seeming in less of an ebulient mood than he has in some of the interviews i have done with some of my colleagues in the past. The interview yesterday was with my kol lead jim holland. This is the third time i have been in an interview with the president. He will offer us drinks, make a big show to push a button on the desk to bring in somebody to offer a diet coke and he didnt yesterday. It was noticeable to the three of us at the beginning. But it ended up, we were only supposed to have 15 minute with him and it end ed up more than 30. He sort of warmed up and we ended up having a really good conversation coming up on morning joe, is George Papadopolous poised to back away with his deal with bob mueller . Why a cryptic tweet is fuelling speculation about his role in the russia probe. Thats ahead on morning joe. Hey allergy muddlers. Pg e wants you to plan ahead by mapping out escape routes and preparing a go kit, in case you need to get out quickly. For more information on how to be prepared and keep your family safe, visit pge. Com safety. Former Trump Campaign advisor George Papadopoulos is fuelling speculation over what his next steps may be in his plea deal with bob muellers team. Yesterday afternoon, papadopolous sent out this cryptic tweet, writing, been a hell of a year. Decisions. The tweet came after his wife suggested that papadopolous is strongly considering backing out of the plea deal that he struck with muellers team and that her husband would make a final decision about it today. Muellers team is recommending that George Papadopolous, who is scheduled to be sentenced in september, be given up to six months in prison for lying to the fbi. With us now we have former u. S. Attorney and msnbc contributor barbara mcquaid, former federal and state prosecutor ellie honegig and Senior Reporter at vanity fair and nbc and msnbc contributor emily jane fox. Ellie, let me begin with you. It looks like George Papadopolous is considering flipping, flipflopping. We dont know what is going on here. I guess the first question is, why would mueller come out tough with a possible sixmonth prison sentence for somebody who was cooperating with the team . Yes. So, joe, he would come out tough because clearly papadopolous was a failed cooperator, a badlycompromised cooperator. He lied Something Like a dozen times in his first proffer with
muellers team. Papadopolous is lucky hes getting any benefit. A lot of times prosecutors lied to that many times would rip up the agreement and say, youre done. It is kind of funny to hear George Papadopolous talk about, decision, decisions. You know, two things about trying to withdraw a guilty plea. One, it is exceptionally difficult to do as a matter of law. He would essentially have to show the judge he was duped, he didnt understand what he was doing when he pled guilty. The whole point of a guilty plea, the judge will say over and over, do you understand what youre doing. Even if he succeeds in withdrawing his plea, it is a suicide mission. He has nowhere to go. He is going to trial and all indications are he would just get destroyed at trial. I dont think mueller is sweating this one. Yeah. So, barbara, what is he exposed to for lying to the fbi . If he doesnt like the sixmonth deal, lets say he decides to go in and fight it out on this legal suicide mission, whats he looking at in terms of prison . Yeah, i dont know that hes going to do much better than six
months frankly. He could face potentially up to five years in prison, and i think if the deal is ripped up he could revert to the original charges that were out there against him in the complaint, which included Obstruction Of Justice, which has a 15year cap. So i think his exposure would actually be higher. I think the tickokay could mean Something Else. I think it could mean, look out, trump people, i have more to give, i want a better deal than the six months. But i think i agree in light of what hes done so far, the repeated lying to the fbi and to muellers team, that theyre just not interested in doing business. If you look at the plea agreement he signed versus the one that was signed by richard gates and michael flynn, it lacks a paragraph in there about cooperation, that we agree that youre going to continue to cooperate, we might call you to testify, and in exchange we are going to file a motion with the judge under section 5k of the sentencing guidelines to ask for a reduction in your sentence. That paragraph is not included in George Papadopolouss plea agreement, and i think thats
because he is a failed cooperator. They went down that road and they thought, you are just a liar who is never going to tell us what is what. Maybe he has changed his mind, but i think for muellers people it is too late. Once they filed that sentencing memo they said, weve made our final decision. Lets go from the man who donald trump said was one of his top advisers through the man that ran his campaign through the rnc and donald trump said he needed to get him over the top. That, of course, is Paul Manafort. Barbara, you have been following that trial closely. I know that it is always dangerous to try to figure out exactly what a jury is doing, to figure out exactly what is happening inside the courtroom based on media reports, but this one really has been curious to see a judge attacking the prosecution as much as this judge has been doing, not sequestering the jury, and then the jury is still out on a case that seemed even by the
documents presented to the jury an openandshut case. Can you provide us some insight . Yeah, i watched the trial and i think it is a very strong case. I do still think that the jury is likely to convict ultimately. I think any reasonable jury would convict, although you never know the makeup of any particular jury. I think the fact theyve been at it for three days is not yet cause for concern by the government. I think one thing about this judge, you know, he was very difficult on the prosecution. He had some extraneous statements. Im told he is always that way, this is sort of how he rolls. But one of the things that he did during the trial i think maybe contributing to the lengthy deliberations, and that is in an effort to speed along the trial when the prosecution would ask to publish exhibits for the jury, that is display them in open court as they were coming in and as they were being discussed, the judge would often say, we dont have time for that, lets move along, they can see those exhibits during deliberations, we dont need to look at them now. It is a complicated case with Financial Transactions and
documents. I think that the time they saved in the trial they may be giving back in the deliberations as the jury now needs to go and pull out all of those documents and look at them and see how they match up. One of the questions they have asked is whether they could have some sort of key or chart showing them which exhibits match up with which counts or which witnesses and the judge said no. So theyre doing that work themselves, and i think in a case with more than 400 exhibits it could take them some time. So i wouldnt be worried yet that it is taking too long. I think that they are meticulously doing their job. Just to go to this question at a really basic level, we all, you know, are into tea leaf reading and all we nonlawyers sit and try to glean information from lawyers, but you look at the situation. Youre waiting, what is going on and the jury occasionally asks a question. Yesterday the jury didnt ask any questions. Should we read anything from the duration, the questions theyre asking, or should we all just basically chill out and wait for the jury to render its verdict . So, john, and barbara knows, waiting for a verdict as a prosecutor is agonizing. Right. We are seeing the whole American Public go through it now. Youre sitting there going, what is going on, why are they silent, when are they coming back, are they coming back at noon. It is so hard to read anything into silence or to the notes. When we used to get a note, we would scrutinize the handwriting, is it does it look like theyre bothered or not. So, look, ive i had a jury out in a onecount, one defendant extortion case for a full week. Were not you know, this is 50 times more complicated than that and were at day three or four here. So, you know, these things take time. I think barbara is exactly right. The one thing i think we can glean is this jury is meticulous. You could see that from their first set of questions. They have 18 counts. I believe theyre going count i, every element. Count two, every element. Thats going to take a while. Emily, so Michael Cohen up here in new york state is facing problems of his own, and the 20
million in bank fraud, that story came out on friday. How much pressure is he under right now to cooperate . I think if my sense from my reporting is that it wouldnt be pressure for him to cooperate, that there are two roads that could happen. Were kind of at a fork in the road where he could either be offered the ability to cooperate or he could be indicted and arrested. I think the first road is preferable to him right now. He sent so many signals he is ready to cooperate, that his loyalty is no longer to President Trump but to his family, and, as he has said, to his country. So i think the pressure is not whether or not he can cooperate. The pressure is if hes going to be arrested or not. That is the thing, the looming threat that is weighing on him most right now. And is he cooperating, do you know . Any suggestion that hes already cooperating . It is not my reporting that at this moment he has been offered the ability to
cooperate. I think talks have only just begun, and i dont think that they have been very specific. So i think things are very much up in the air right now. All right. Barbara mcquaid, ellie honig and emily jane fox, as also, thank you so much for being with us. We really appreciate it. Coming up next, our interview with one of the kings of comedy, d. L. Hugely about his New York Times best seller. Theres a humorous title, but an important message. Keep it right here on morning joe. Cast possible for d. L. I was going to say. John meache meachem actually down on wasps. Anyway i feel like a plaintiff. So d. L. This is really how not to get shot. Absolutely. Now, tell me, has a white person ever given you this advice . Well, yes, meghan kellie. Meghan kelly, who actually is the whitest woman i have ever met. I was on her show to talk about the boat. Philando castile had just gotten shot and we were going to morph the conversation into community and policing and she had mark furman who, who is the poster boy mark furman talking about police is like bill cosby going to a rape crisis center. I was fired from the lapd for being a liar and brutal. He got o. J. Off. It was a whole right. We got into this heated
argument, you should pay attention, if fill an dphilando had paid ahenttention to the la and i was so angry i decided to write a book. Whats some other brilliant advice white people have given you. Rudy guilliani, you need to teach your children to respect the police. Geraldo rivera, if you dress like a thug, you will be treated like a thug. Joe ar ppaio, just dont break e law. I figure white people been giving black people advice for a few hundreds year. Maybe we should listen. No. It was tongue in cheek. So obviously what you are telling us it is tongue in cheek, but we have talked a good bit. Gene robinson, eddie mcleod and a lot of us talked onset about one of the most depressing things as an american and a guy who loves my country, believes
in my country, believes, as john says, that the arc of civilization is ever moving upward. What is so depressing in 2018, a black father, if i were a black father first thing i would have to do is sit down with my three boys and say, listen, here is the deal, the rules arent the same. When the police pulls you over, put your handson the Steering Wheel and freeze. Even that doesnt by the way, we have seen that doesnt that doesnt even work. As a black dad you spend your life scared to death when you send your kids out. I think that is also one of the reasons like this is the third book i have written, but it is the one thats the most impactful to me and the one im most proud of because it comes as a desire to, a, obviously entertain people, but i think we have to be humanized to some degree. We have been when you look at the situations that we find ourselves in, there have been race riots in america primarily because someone of color got killed and no one was brought to account for it. No matter what we call it, whether we call it blackonblack crime and they should do this or that, people shouldnt die, an unarmed person. When they go, you shouldnt rush to judgment, when you shoot an unarmed dude you just dont want me to rush to judgment on your rush to judgment. It came out of a sense of frustration. Joe, it has been a constant in American Life for years and years and years. All of this talk about, you know, we ought to have a real discussion about race, i mean right. You heard that ad nauseam, weve never going to have a real discussion about race. Right. Because, listen, we are three cool, woke white guys here. Did he say woke im giving him my bet award. You and i, we go into a meachem thinks, by the way, woke must be some sort of port that he drinks. Are we talking about herman work. You and i go into a Department Store or Something Like that, youre going to get
followed town the aisle, not me. A lot of white people never get that. Not only to they not get it, but they dont believe it. I honest li believe people have opinions because it is based on their experiences. But if you look at, you know, just the dynamic of things that happen, the same Police Officers that police your neighborhood are not the same ones in tiner city. You will find people have different they have a different mission statement. When you are policing wealthier neighborhoods you are more like the army corps of engineers, in neighborhoods of color you are the marine corps. But i got to tell you what you just pointed out, i mean the policemen who patrol various areas are more likely to live in my neighborhood rather than in your neighborhood. Sure, sure. But i still think that there needs in 2008 or 2007, the fbi came over to report, they said Police Departments in america had been compromised basically. There were white supreme tises, nazis. Rather than having a conversation about a better
screening mechanism, we talk about what communities of color can do to improve their relations. If you have a person thats biased anyway, naturally it is going to work its way into how he polices people. We cant in pittsburgh, there was a cop, january, he was fired for being brutal and a liar. He got fired from that police department, got hired again in pittsburgh. 90 minutes after he was sworn in, he shot a kid in the back. Not only did he shoot the kid, he said, im comfortable with what i did and im not going to be judged by anybody except god and the judge. If you dont like it, you know what you can do. If you have to take somebodys life, to be that callous tells me about you. Lets go to john meachem, the whitest i dont know. His new book is called the soul of america, the history of marvin g marvin gay in the making. I got access to the papers. It was very important. Indeed. I never thought we would see
as radical a shift in the presidency as the temperatureal change ben george w. Bush to barack obama until we went from barack obama to donald trump. Is there anything in the idea that trump has played this so hyperbolically, so badly theres a positive backlash to this as we move forward . I think the positive backlash is only if people start understanding how far we have come. He looks bad to everybody. Liej like i watched we watched and a porn star was accusing him. If you aint worried about gonorrhea, how are you going to help us with north korea . I dont understand that. By the way, again, boroed borrowed that from kevin. No, it was gibbon. I hate to be one of those guys, because i cant like one guy, they think all black people, we all have the same,
because one guy cant encapsulate people, we got kanye west and barack obama. I think there seems to be an emboldening of people who are racist or misogynist. They team to have found their voice and i think they can do a lot of things that are hurtful. Just like jackie robinson, people didnt start to change the way he felt until they saw what he was going through. You know what . It is not a reflection of who we are. What is your take when you see a video where a guy, a black guy is being led into a jail cell, doing absolutely nothing, and suddenly all of these white cops stood around while a black cop came up and beat the everliving stuff out of him. I sit there going, wait, does that black cop think that he needs to do that to fit into the force . Like what is going on there . Because theres sometimes we will see hispanic cops shoot
black guys, black cops. What are your thoughts and what do you take out of that every time you see it . I think you have get the idea that they the uniform is their color. I had a brotherinlaw. He was a he became a sheriff and he was the biggest ass. I was, like, what is wrong with you . I think there are people of all different kinds of stripes. There are some people who put on that uniform and it becomes they morph into Something Else. That is irrespective of whether youre black or white. I saw the same video. When you look at the experience, like i saw a video of a 10yearold boy in chicago get handcuffed, pee edpeed on himse because he was so frightened. He wasnt the right guy so they let him go. When i was 8 years old in los angeles, i got pulled over by the police. 8 years old. I was a kid. The police pulled us over. And said, put your hands on the car and asked me who a guy was in my neighborhood. Im 8 years old. I dont know. I said, this car is hot. He pulled his gun and said listen, n word if you take your hands off this car, im going to blow your head off. 8 years old. Im 54 years old. We make the monsters we sometimes then became afraid of. I can tell you this, i dont care who you are, from tim, scott, who was a senator, one black man or one black woman who hasnt had a negative experience with the police. So let me ask you, i know youre a comedian. I know youre not trying to save the world. Trying to get a message across by making people laugh. Right. But you have been a live for 54 years. How do we break that cycle . Because im a big believer, you know, support law enforcement. Sure. Do what you can. You look at new york city. It is a wonder that we can
walk around in new york city for the most part safe, safer than any time since the 1950s. At the same time, how does this stop . The things that happen to you when you were 8 years old . The thing that happened in chicago to the 10yearold boy . How does that stop . Accountability. Its a simple word. Used all the tile. If youre a Police Officer, you should be held to a higher standard, not a lower one. Oftentime, like, if theres a have you ever in theed when theres a suspect, theyll say, we see everything we need on the video . But if a Police Officer does something, we dont know what happened before that. We dont know what frame of mind he was in. You give them a presumption of innocence that no one else gets. That is a tough job to do. You have to be accountable. If you take somebodys life and theyre running away, you should lose your life and your freedom like i would. What were calling out for i have a son would is the most beautiful human being i know. But he is also he has
asberger syndrome. Hes a physically fit kid. People who are emotionally incapacitated are more likely to get shot by police. The most dangerous place for black people to live is in a lot of white peoples imagination. Like why is it you can imagine a guy gets a gun, he gets shot. You see a guy gunned down. All these people in texas and florida. And he goes to jail. So the fear you have of us is not based on your interaction, its based and what you think you know. Its movies. Its books. Its videos. You get to shoot a kid running a way and everybody finds a way to justify that. Even if we look at the things weve done to make things better. If theres a video, they give cops these video cams. Why do we all see them at the same time . Take them for a month, then decide not for your home use, theyre to instill trust. All the things we need, society, the public in general gives them
such power, that they wont do anything that governs it. If you lie on a police report, and you we prove you should lose your job like i would. If you take somebodys life, you should lose your livelihood and your freedom like i would. You should be held listen, it takes six months to be a Police Officer. It takes 12 months to be a cosmetology i guess cutting somebodys hair is easier than shooting them. The same thing they tell our black children to be accountable. Do that for the people in charge of policing them. When you really look at whats happening, policing for black people hasnt changed. Only in our neighborhoods to keep us where we belong. Stay in your neighborhood. Stay out of here. Every time you see somebody calling the police on somebody, its because somebody thinks they dont belong where they are. They dont belong at barbecue. We cant be that exotic of creatures you feel like youre afraid of us. When i say the most dangerous
place for us is in white peoples imagination, its really true. Wed love to keep talking about it. Unfortunately, john got to get back to marvin gaye. Marvin gaye, exactly. All right, thank you so much. What a pleasure. As always, we greatly appreciate it. The book is how not to get shot and other advice from white people. Well be right back with more morning joe. Your brain changes as you get older. But prevagen helps your brain with an ingredient originally discovered. In jellyfish. In clinical trials, prevagen has been shown
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