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to push their strollers, or carry their children, or get their babies to safety. people were running in every direction. >> our breaking news coverage continues breaking news coverag continues here on "morning joe." dozens of people are dead after a truck drove into a crowd in niece, france, in what the president has called a terrorist attack. hundreds were watching fireworks for the bastille day when the truck zigzagged along a promenade of people mowing them down. the driver also fired shots into the crowd. the death toll right now stands at 84. some of them children. people went running in waves. a scene of panic in a resort town and tourist destination. the driver, according to the french president, was fatally shot by police. a french official said they later discovered grenades and in the back of the truck.
now, authorities are trying to figure out whether the driver acted alone. the scene afterwards, grisly. bodies were strewn and caught in the middle an american family from hollywood with a baby and teenage daughter. >> everybody one on top of the other and on our hands on the head like this. >> i was terrified. i put my hand on the baby's mouth so she wouldn't scream because i thought if the shooter is close, he'll think we're dead and not alive and he won't come and shoot us. the streets were close to empty. people had already ran and at that point that's why we went on the floor. we're sitting ducks. not like a bunch of people and we could run with the crowd. everybody had already realized what was going on way before we realized what was going on. at that point, the smartest thing to do was hope.
>> and this morning, a family spokesperson tells nbc news that an american father and son. sean copeland and his 11-year-old son, brodie, did not make it out alive. they opened a terrorism investigation and a state of emergency dating back to the attacks has been extended. celt to expire on july 26th, but the president announced last night it will continue for another three months. during a news conference "france as a whole is a threat under islamic terrorism." operational reserves were called up to assist police, particularly at the borders. step up its targets. president obama issued a statement in part saying on behalf of the american people i condemn in the strongest terms what appears to be a horrific
terrorist attack. it is friday, july 15th, welcome to "morning joe." i'm mika brzezinski. joe will be with us shortly. we have veteran columnist mark barnac barnacle, mark halperin former communication director for george w. bush nicolle wallace and foreign correspondent aman and retired executive assistant director of the fbi, sean hennry. all right, we'll start with richard haus and also waiting to hear from janet who was actually there on vacation for her account of the attack. but, richard, we were talking last night about this. what, the question here is, i think we're looking at soft targets now. this is unpreventable. >> this is a sobering day because it remind you that terrorism can happen anywhere. it can happen any time.
the choice of weapons can be box cutters, as we saw on 9/11, it could be trucks and consider to be weapons and any place now where people congregate, whether it's for super bowls or for holidays and whether it's at shopping malls. in a sense, everything that forms part of our lives is a potential target. you can screen people before they get on airplanes and you should. but at some point we'll make tough decisions as a society the way israel did decades ago about whether we begin to introduce degrees of screening and layering at movie theaters and shopping malls and the rest and it has questions for efficiency and questions for our way of life and for privacy. but, what i think this just shows is that we're going to have to make some very difficult decisions. >> we're going to go to janet now in niece, france. janet, you were there,
vacationing, i understand. can you first bring us back to the moment this happened and tell us what you saw and what the scene is like now. >> hi, mika. i'm here with my family. i have five children and my husband. and we were a short distance away from the fireworks. not actually in niece in the foothills above me. it's about nine miles, but 30-minute drive because of the roads here. we've been down at this fireworks display many times. it's a very family-friendly event that is much like being along lake shore drive on the fourth of july. so, you're along the mediterranean. it's gorgeous, the fireworks. when i arrived on the short time later it was people were in a state of shock and just walking around and that was 1:00, 2:00, 3:00 in the morning showing their videos of what happened and looking for people.
police were here by the hundreds and still are. they have set up a perimeter to protect some of what appears to be evidence. they put up fences and covered those fences in white sheeting so that no one could see beyond them. early this morning the streets were eerily quiet but people have started to come out and telling their stories of being here last night in any number of languages. it is just horrifying. to see this and to see this place such a simple, if you will, vacation spot. so, on edge. and so devastating, mika. >> janet, before you go, just how -- give me a sense of the breath, the size of the crime scene. the attacker apparently just kept going. >> he just kept going and the promenade runs for several miles. and it's unclear how he got through the barricade, but they
shut these streets down on bastille day here in niece so that people can walk in the streets and to accommodate the tens of thousands of people who come out for this every year and he went quite a distance ending up at a landmark here in niece. very near there where i saw some video from bystanders, which was just incredible. the police officers running alongside the truck. it had to go for at least half a mile from the time the officers caught up with him or perhaps longer. and then you see on the video that i've seen, you know, a shootout. and then the gunman who's wearing a helmet inside the cab of that truck slumped over the dashboard. and in the distance and all around the truck, people on the ground. and just an awful scene, mika.
>> nbc janet shamlian, thank you. we'll check back in with you throughout the morning. one truck, one man, 84 dead, at the last accounting in a country where the security has been jacked up for many, many months now. this is sort of, what do we do? >> it just demonstrates the ease by which the terrorists can inflict their deadly jihadi cause and execute innocent civilians in the streets and around the world, quite honestly. what we've seen in the last several month throughout europe more communication attacks and automatic assault rifles and ieds and explosive vests and, in this case, in fact, this is isis and we have to say that there has been no claim to this point and a lot of investigation to try to do attribution back to
the attackers. but what we've seen with isis, historically, is the social media radicalized online and telling people to fight where you stand. fight where you are. go after the infidels. you don't necessarily have to travel to syria to fight there. but to take your cause to the streets. and it's all about inflicting fear into the hearts and minds of people. that's exactly what we see here. celebrating in france and at an attack where people are out with their families trying to enjoy a holiday. >> talking about a way of life. the attack in niece is the latest of a string of violence across france in the last year and a half. in january of 2015, two men stormed the paris offices of the "charlie hebo" newspaper killing 12 people. two days later attacked a kosher grocery store and killed four
hostages. remember that? in november, 130 people were killed after a series of acoordinated attacked by isis-linked terrorists. france has been under a state of emergency since then. this year, on the anniversary of the charlie hebdo attacks police killed a knife wielding man outside prayaris. and in june a police officer and his companion were killed at their home in a small town west of paris isis claimed responsibility for the attack. a string of other incidents in france including vehicles ramming into people. on december 21, 2014, a driver plowed his vehicle into people injuring 13. the next day a van drove into shoppers at a christmas market in namites leaving 10 people
injured. one soldier and a muslim man were injured. mark halperin. >> aman is also with us. what have you seen in reaction. we know how people in the united states react tathis, what have you seen in europe and the middle east? >> very strong comdomination. >> always quiet in the wake of something like this. you don't hear from regimes and from the governments that through their media outlets you hear from across the region. interesting enough, one area we are monitoring for reaction is social media for isis groups and particularly extremist groups. you'll get a sense of whether there is a legitimate claim of responsibility. we have not seen that yet, mark. right now celebrating this and
hailing this, but no credible claim of responsibility from any militant groups as of yet. that, obviously, is going to be important in the investigation as to whether or not this is the terminology that we constantly use, an inspired-attack or a directed style of attack as we saw in istanbul and pairs and brussels previously. as of now, no major credible claim of responsibility. but certainly all the groups as we mentioned celebrating this from their perspective. >> a delay in isis claiming responsibility sometimes up to two to three days. why is that? >> for a whole host of different reasons. it depends, first and foremost, as to where within the organization a specific attack was planned and ultimately carried out. when you look for example at the paris attacks and you look at something more sophisticated as we saw in istanbul, there may be
political reasons why isis does not want to come out and claim responsibility immediately. in the case of turkey, isis has a very weird relationship, not officially with the government. they are at war with the government. but turkey has been a major lifeline to them. they do not necessarily want to come out, but in other cases where in paris, for example, the fighters or the attackers were actually fighters in isis inside of syria and inside of iraq, a much more direct relationship between the organization and a specific cell that allows the group to come out and claim direct responsibility for it when they have that kind of information and the profile of the attackers, as we saw in the case of beng ludash. in other cases such as the orlando shooting, the organization may have inspired an individual, but no operational link between them. therefore, they do not come out and claim responsibility for it. >> a quick recap before we get to the politics of this.
hundreds, again, watching fireworks at the bastille day festivities when a truck reportedly zigzagged into a crowd full of people in niece, france. the death toll right now standing at 84, some of them children. a scene of panic and people running in waves. just horrific. again in niece, france. both presidential candidates here in the u.s. spoke out in interviews last night about the attack. here's some of what donald trump and hillary clinton had to say. >> would you go to congress and ask for a declaration of war? >> i would. i would. this is war. if you look at it, this is war coming from all different parts and, frankly, it's war. and we're dealing with people without uniforms. these people were allow eing people into our country where we have no idea who they are, where
they're from and they have no documentation in many cases and hillary clinton wants to allow 550% more in than even obama. >> there will be by the end of the summer 20,000 refugees. do you consider those people threats? >> yes s. >> do you consider them security threats? >> of course i do. >> richard, it seems like the response that was not measured enough, is that a safe way of putting it? >> the declaration of war is symbolic. but, quite honestly, it wouldn't give us any capacities or abilities to do stuff we have already been doing. we can't raise expectations. there's not a solution to this. this is the new reality. we can deal with it. things we can do to go after them to make ourselves more
vulnerable. there should not be an easy answer to cut off immigration or attack in syria. most of these acts are inspired. we're not talking about returnees. >> they're sort of randomly all over the place. >> the idea there is a solution. we should be doing more in syria, again, but, that would not solve this problem. just think about the numbers for a second. we're not saying most of the world muslims are terrorists. but most of the world's terrorists are muslim. we're talking about a community in the world of 1.2 billion people and 1.3 billion people. we could be phenomenally successful. we have to do things to reduce the people who are potentially inspired. a small number of people as we've seen here in niece can cause problems. so, we have to be really smart in terms of what we do and, also, what we don't do. some of the stuff that is being talked about deporting people
who believe in sharia and testing or somehow blaming -- >> isn't that what they want? >> cutting down immigration. we have to be, we've got to be smart in how we respond because our connections, as you see here in new york and other cities with entire populations and communities, our best measure of defense is making sure people in these communities are working with us instead of threatening. >> donald trump did change his plans today in respect to the victims. i mean, you did see some slight moves to sort of recognize what is happening and adapt. >> i may be alone here, but he gave a speech, a scathing speech the day after orlando and i accept and taken his word that that was the reason. i think, also, he welcomed a little more time to come sit with the decision he appears to have made. i want to say something about what he said, though. asking for a declaration of war feels right at a gut level to
americans watching other families, watching fireworks. that is something we did here a couple weeks ago. and i had a lot of friends, mom friends call me before the fourth of july and say, is it safe? should i take my kids to the hudson to go watch? people don't want to be the kind of country that has tests or deports people, but they also want to know that their leaders feel what they feel and they feel like war is being brought to us. and, so, when he says i would ask for a declaration of war. i think it's everything he says afterward that gets him in trouble. but war, his language. people feel like they're at war against us. >> war against whom and, second of all, what tools? >> i totally agree with you. >> we have to fight it with everything. internet stuff and what is said in mosques. >> i agree with you. when donald trump says this is what we're all watching after we
put our kids to bed. donald trump says, yes, i'll ask for a declaration of war. >> it may hit the gut, mike barnicle. doesn't it also do some other things that may be potentially dangerous? isn't it at a time like this where words should be very measured? >> obviously. look. these pictures that we are watching, that america is watching from coast to coast today. these pictures erase logic. so when a candidacy for the president of the united states and donald trump and anyone else says we need to declare war, it resonates out there. never mind when you declare war there is a back end called surrender. there is no surrender on the back end. no "uss missouri." >> after 9/11, the country wanted to declare war. since then a lot of terrorist attacks. this year because of the nature and frequency of the attacks because of the fact we're in a presidential campaign is as close to that mentality in the
country as we've had. and he struck a chord with what he said last night. i don't think there is any doubt about that. >> here's hillary clinton. she also called in last night, i believe to fox news and spoke about the attack. >> it's terrible that france has faced too much tragedy and violence and we need to stand strongly with them because events like this remind us how vital it is in every way, not to abandon them. we need to strengthen our alliances and i include nato in that. we've got to do more to understand that this is a war against these terrorist groups. the radical jihadist groups. it's a different kind of war. we need to be smart on how we wage it, but we have to be determined we're going to win it. that is going to require working with other people. what is happening now is we are
taking territory back in iraq. we're squeezing them with consistent air attacks. we have killed a number of their leaders. we are putting together a much more effective coalition. i would intensify those efforts. i have no problem with having a summit, i would include, however, not only nato allies. we have great allies in the region who are holding the lines for us. places like jordan, like israel and others who are really on the front lines themselves. >> sure. >> richard haas. >> i mean everything secretary clinton said is right there. i'll leave it to mark to say if it's politically effective. it seems to be a kind of detailed, answer as opposed to something that is more gut level. i would simply say, again, since the war. you can do things with nato and the middle east and what we are really talking about are
individuals in resident communities inside countries. the answer is not necessarily what you do in the middle east and not necessarily what you do at the border. the real question is, again, how do we prevent these people from making this choice to go over the line. >> there is a larger question to it. to declare war, not declare war and use nato, don't use nato and it is last night one man, one truck, at least 84 dead. how do you declare war on that? the only way you can get to the reasoning, the cause, the trigger about that is human intelligence. and we have never, desperate lack of human intelligence when it comes to dealing with isis. >> we'll continue to cover this breaking news. much more ahead on the horrific attack in niece, france. at least 84 people dead when a truck reportedly sig zagged along a road of people. congressman adam shift and the former head of the national
counterterrorism center. and plus more on how yesterday's attack in france impacted our presidential election in a big way. "the washington post" robert costa has new reporting on donald trump's vice presidential pick. that's next on "morning joe." ? can't blame you. it's a drone you control with your brain, which controls your thumbs, which control this joystick. no, i'm actually over at the ge booth. we're creating the operating system for industry. it's called predix. it's gonna change the way the world works. ok, i'm telling my brain to tell the drone to get you a copy of my resume. umm, maybe keep your hands on the controller. look out!! ohhhhhhhhhh... you know what, i'm just gonna email it to you. yeah that's probably safer. ok, cool.
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>> we heard the gunshots and i don't know maybe 20, maybe 30. all very close to each other. very fast. it was like this and i realize the shots were very close to us. we put ourselvesen the flo eon and the babee on the floor and she laid on top of the baby and my niece that was 12 was screaming and crying. this morning at least 84 people are dead after a man drove a truck into a group of pedestrians during bastille day celebrations in the french city of nice. more than a mile long, authorities say the driver
zigzagged through a crowded promenade along the city's waterfront. this video we got in shot by a bystander show police shooting at the truck and the driver. an egyptian man on vacation videotaped it. he said before this happened, "i was waving to the driver, stop. there is a girl under the truck." president hollande has called it a monstrosity and today was supposed to be the day when donald trump was supposed to announce his pick for vice president. donald trump had chosen indiana governor mike pence to be his running mate. he arrived in the new york city area around 6:00 p.m. after a private flight into new jersey airport, which was supposed to be 11:00 a.m., this aannouncement. but as we learned more about the terror strike in france, trump tweeted, "in light of the
horrible attack in nice, i have postponed the announce of my vice presidential candidate." >> i have three people who are fantastic. i think newt is fantastic and chris christie fantastic, been a friend of mine for 15 years. just a fantastic person. and this mike. mike has done a great job as governor of indiana. you look at the numbers and he has done a fantastic job. but i haven't made a final, final decision. out of respect for this horrific situation, i just think it was inappropriate to have the news conference tomorrow, so i postponed the news conference and we'll announce tomorrow when it will be. >> did the terror attack influence your selection of your vice president? >> no, absolutely not. what happened is i think it would be totally inappropriate to have a news conference or on a vice presidential pick.
"los angeles times" reports trump told a fund-raiser in bel air he will name his running mate over the weekend. trump's campaign chairman, paul spoke with the "washington post" late last night and said they plan to pick something out this morning. asked if trump willeet wit mike pence or any other prospects. he will make a statement tomorrow and he'll clarify on how we'll go forward on the issue. meanwhile, governor pence faces a state deadline at noon by which time he must formally withdraw from his election campaign to allow leaders to select a replacement candidate. so, that's an interesting deadline. joining us in cleveland, political reporter for "the washington post" and nbc political analyst robert costa. robert, what are you hearing this morning? >> i'm hearing from trump sources that indiana governor mike pence still remains the likely choice to be donald
trump's running mate. a sense that he has forged a bond with trump and trump's family over the past week. but trump statements late last night also ring true. he has not made a final decision and instead of having this news conference today, he'll come out with the statement about the timing of his announcement. there was a sense while trump was in california yesterday, he was still thinking through his decision and really considering his personal repore and his long relationship with both gingrich and christie and wondering how they could maybe be part of the ticket. but, again, his aides and many people close to him are making it clear in different ways that pence is the likely choice. >> nicolle, your thoughts? >> i spent a couple hours with governor and mary pat christie and there is a sense that he's leaning towards governor pence and also a sense that he is having a hard time choosing someone over his loyal friends
and loyal backers and that he's struggling. >> there is a dynamic for chris christie that makes it it very complicated. >> the history between ivanka's husband and chris christie who prosecuted jared's father. and his father served prison time. so, there is a very complicated dynamic. i think what may have surprised the christies in this is they have been in the trenches together. they have been working that very small circle around trump at some of the lowest moments of his candidacy has included jared, ivanka and chris christie working on statements and other things they have done in the sort of more challenging moments. they have worked hand in hand and maybe a sense they will work through this. >> mark, i'll have you take it to robert and you look at a situation like this, and do you want him to have more foreign
policy experience perhaps than the candidate himself? >> all three have more foreign policy in the case of a u.s. attorney. what gingrich said last night and expelling people from the country, the reality is the reaction to pence has anticipating that he had been named has been quite good with groups like donors, house members and conservative activists, all of which is part of the rationale of why trump is drawn to him and why i think he'll pick him. the reality of a pence pick is it will help unify the convention and help unify the party and it will be a classic, do no harm pick, and that's why, in the end, that's the direction it's going to go. >> that's exactly right, mark. one of the biggest reservations many republicans have about trump is he's not seen as an ideological conservative. pence has deep roots in that
community and a former talk radio host and a congressman who was part of the conservative flank in the house. you saw speaker ryan come out yesterday and called pence a good movement conservative. this element of the republican party that has been so skeptical of trump forming this never trump movement. they are okay with pence. they see pence as one of them. recognize as a real political lift to pence, even if he doesn't excite all these general election voters he helps mind together a broken republican party. >> we're looking at live pictures or video that is just coming to us. this is live, little bit shaky camera here. french president is just arriving in nice. he said he will be there and going to the scene to take a look at the aftermath himself. mike barnicle. >> before we let you go, no where near the expert on politics like you and nicolle
are. does this not signal to the republican party, okay, donald trump is sort of normal? >> it's a gesture in that direction, mike. that's been a concern for a lot of the party elite and the donors and the leadership. where is trump going to go if he wins the white house? a governing partner or another combatant on his side. someone on the media airwaves making the case. in pence you have someone who is low key and quiet and a liaison to capitol hill. coming up, we'll go live to nice, france, for the latest on yesterday's deadly attack on tourists vacationing around. 84 people confirmed dead. we'll talk to a top fbi agent about the terror threat here at home. continuing coverage here on "morning joe" in just a moment.
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let's go live to nice, france, right now and bring in janet shamlian. janet, tell us what the latest is there. >> so, mika, it is 12:38 here in nice and crowds of hundreds of people came out here along the boulevard which has been shut down for a stretch of several miles. behind me is continuing an active crime scene at this hour. they have set up a temporary
fence with white sheeting over it to protect the evidence that is beyond it to keep people from taking photographs to seeing what that is. the people that we're seeing all around us were here last night and are telling their stories in a variety of languages. about what they saw. some people still walking around, shell shocked. waiting for french president hollande who has just landed here in nice and expected here at any moment. but this is a scene of devastation. the death toll stands at 84 at this hour. a number of people injured. authorities are cautioning that the death toll could rise and right now, mika, we know of two americans. both of them from texas. a father and a son were here last night for the fireworks, as were tens of thousands of people when this truck came and literally mowed them down as they stood enjoying the evening's festivities for the traditional bastille day celebration here that is held on the boulevard every year.
they always shut the streets down for the stretch of the boulevard, mika. and there is no vehicle traffic allowed and that is when that truck came through here, just as the fireworks ended, about 10:20 france time last night. >> i know you are on the ground and talking to whoever you can there. any word on the driver, what we know about him. >> as you may have heard the reports that they found an identity in the car that indicates he's french, authorities have yet to confirm that is his identity. we have seen some video of him that has not been broadcast of him slumped over and the dashboard of the truck after being shot by police. very dramatic video. but he has not been identified positively at this time, mika. >> janet shamlian, thank you very much. we'll be right back with more on this breaking news. you who shows up in that dress. who hugs a friend.
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the horrific attack in nice, france, is the latest wave after wave of attacks over the past couple of years. upending people's sense of safety around the world. in a quiet corner of paris in january of 2015, gunmen stormed the offices of "charlie hebdo" killing 12 people. ended days later in a siege and hostage situation. in chattanooga, tennessee, a gunman opened fire on two military centers killing four marines and critically wounding a navy s.e.a.l. in november, 130 people were killed in a series of coordinated attacks by isis-trained terrorists and nearby cafes in paris. days later in san bernardino, california, a radicalized husband and wife massacred people in a community center before waging a shootout with police during a chase. this past march in brussels, belgium, suicide bombings in the
airport and subway resulted in 35 deaths and wounded hundreds. a gunman in orlando, florida, stormed a nightclub at last call and killed 49. wounding dozens more. just days ago in baghdad, a suicide bomber hit a crowded baghdad shopping area. killing more than 250 people. these are just a few of the blows that peaceful people going about their daily lives have felt, whether it's in bangladesh or airport gate in istanbul or a restaurant in tel aviv. places of sevilcivilian life ha changed our world. mike barnicle. >> it appears that we are now on the eve or probably in the middle of a situation worldwide, globally, where a lot of americans are going to beginning to ask themselves this summer going forward, should we go, whether it's to the movies or whether it's to a mall or airport. >> disneyland.
i had friends call me, should we go to disneyland? >> legitimate question. interesting to bring him in on this. what is the immediate and longer term take away from this? what should we learn from this. what do you think on policing level, law enforcement, more broadly we should both be doing and also avoid doing? how do we reduce the odds of this happening here to put it bluntly? >> multiple people on set have actually discussed this. two was to enhance security. one is to reduce the threat and one is to reduce the vulnerability. from a police or fbi perspective, it's all about the use of intelligence to try to identify those who are looking to cause harm and to engage in these types of attacks. but when we have people who are inspired through online rhetoric and those that might not be connected to a larger group, a broader cell. they might not have connectivity to others, it's very, very
difficult from a law enforcement perspective. this is a new time when we see people who are targeting what we call the soft site, soft targets. and it may require some changes going forward as the american public decides, this is not something, a world that we want to live in where these attacks can happen randomly where people are celebrating a holiday and you're out with your family. it might require some changes in law where it allows intelligence agencies to take a greater stand. that is a very, very difficult question and it's something that will be debated here going forward. >> you can revive the whole debate in this country versus collective security and also a reminder after dallas of just how difficult the job of a policeman is. when you think about the range of threats and situations these individuals have to contend with from this sort of potential to actual terrorism to the kind of protests we're seeing to crime. the demands on a police officer are nothing less than
extraordinary. >> but it laps into the phrase, law and order. when things like this occur, people, unfortunately, are prone to choose order over civil law. >> that's the new message and the stamp that donald trump has been putting on his candidacy for the last ten days. all right, coming up, back live to the scene of the devastating attack yesterday in nice, france. plus, we'll play for you newt gingrich's response. "morning joe" is coming right back. ♪ using 60,000 points from my chase ink card i bought all the fruit... veggies... and herbs needed to create a pop-up pick-your-own juice bar in the middle of the city, so now everyone knows... we have some of the freshest juice in town.
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it's 52 past the hour. at least 82 people are dead after a man drove a truck into pedestrians during bastille day celebrations in the french city of nice. french president francois hollande said the victims include many children. he just arrived in niece in the last hour. we're looking at the political impact. the candidates called in last night and gave their take and their reaction. donald trump actually canceled his plans to announce his vice presidential pick at 11:00 this morning. and here is how one of the contenders for that job, newt gingrich, reacted to the terror attack. >> let me be as blunt and as
direct as i can be. western civilization is in a war. we should, frankly, test every person here who is of a muslim background and if they believe in sharia, they should be deported. sharia is incompatible. modern muslims who have given up sharia, glad to have them as citizens. perfectly happy to have them next door. we need to be relentless defining who our neighbors are. anyone who goes on a website favoring other terrorist groups should be a felony and they should go to jail. any organization which hosts such a website should be engaged and closed down immediately. >> nicole wallace when i said i thought newt gingrich would be the pick, i said it out of fear. and i think it will be pence, which will be relief. what in the world was he saying? >> i sort of felt the same thing when i was watching that.
i think pence is a good pick, but i'm relieved that i'm not going to listen to newt knows better. >> he does. >> the thing about when donald trump says these things, he's trying to react to what people feel. he's right more than when he's wrong. even when he's so wrong about where he hands, he's right about what people feel. newt gingrich knows better. he served in congress. he knows better than to say these things. >> donald trump wins this election is if he makes it about hillary clinton. if you put newt gingrich on the ticket he will say things like that. kyle perry is msnbc senior editor for content. how groups like isis respond to comments like that from gingrich. >> they use it as a recruiting tool and we are caught in a no-win scenario. there is a subtlety to what newt gingrich said. >> didn't seem very subtle to me. >> a subtly that is lost on the
front pages of arab newspapers this morning. on arab newspapers two parties, one that is inclusive and hold on to all citizens and all religions and a second that wants to expel from america. not newt gingrich not wanting to be on the vp ticket. it is going to be, this is what we told you. isis is preaching this. this feeds am to that psychotic rhetoric. >> and we don't make enough of what happens within these communities where people die, especially muslims dying. this is the lead story. just coming across the wire p. the driver jumped out asking where are the wounded, we only have dead here. two men trying to comfort a young man weeping over the body
of his mother. they kill muslims. >> kyle perry, if you could stay with us until the top of the hour. in just a moment, the very latest on out of nice, france, where 84 people are dead after a man drove a truck through a packed promenade in what french officials are calling a terrorist attack. "washington post" bob woodward will be with us, as well. can you love wearing powerful sunscreen? yes! neutrogena® ultra sheer. unbeatable protection helps prevent early skin aging and skin cancer
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don't know maybe 20, maybe 30. all very close to each other. very, very fast. it was that pop, pop, pop, pop like this. and i realized that the shots were very close to us. just threw ourselves on the floor, put the baby on the floor. she laid down on top of the baby. and my niece who's 12 was screaming and crying. it is the top of the hour. this morning, 84 people are dead after a truck drove into a crowd in nice, france, in what president francois hollande called, obviously, a terrorist attack. hundreds were watching fireworks for bastille day. the driver also fired shots into the crowd. nice is a resort town and a big
tourist destination. last night shortly after the fireworks ended, people were sent running in waves. the driver of that truck, according to the french president, was fatally shot by police. this video was filmed by a bystander. an egyptian man on vacation. before the shootout happened, i was waving to the driver, stop, there's a girl under the truck. a french official said they later discovered grenades and exploesives in the back of the truck and authorities are trying to figure out whether the driver acted alone. the scene afterwards, grisly. bodies were strewn across an otherwise scenic promenade. caught in the middle an american family from hollywood with a baby and a teenage daughter. >> he just mowed everybody one on top of the other and with our hands on the head like this. >> i was terrified. i put my hand on the baby's mouth so she wouldn't scream because i thought, if the
shooter is close, hopefully he thinks we're laying dead and we're not alive so he won't come and shoot us. the streets were close to empty. people had already ran and at that point, that's why we went on the floor. we're like, we're sitting ducks. it's not like there is a bunch of people and we can run with the crowd. everybody had already realized what was going on way before we realized what was going on. and at that point, the smartest thing to do and hope. >> an american father and son, sean copeland and his 11-year-old son brodie from texas did not make it out alive. the state department confirms this morning two americans were killed. the paris prosecutor's office has reportedly opened a terrorism investigation and a state of emergency dating back. it was set to expire on july 26th. but president hollande announced
last night it will continue for another three months. during a news conference, hollande said france as a whole is under the threat of islamic terrorism. operational reserves have been called up to assist police, particularly at the borders. hollande also said france would step up its bombing in syria and iraq. president obama issued a statement saying in part, on behalf of the american people, i condemn in the strongest terms what appears to be to be a horrific terrorist attack. it is friday, july 15th. welcome back to "morning joe." our special coverage continues here. i'm mika brzezinski. joe is off this morning. we have mike barnicle, the president of the counsel on foreign relations, michael haass and john heilemann and former assistant special agent in charge of the nypd terrorism
task force don barelli and eugene robinson and editor of "washington post" bob woodward all joining us. let's start with nbc news janet shamlian who happened to be on vacation with family members nearby. she reports from nice. >> come out along the boulevard des anglais. an active crime scene at this hour. they set up a temporary fence with white sheeting over it to protect the evidence. from people taking photographs and seeing what that is. the people that we're seeing all around us were here last night and are telling their stories in a variety of languages about what they saw. some people still walking around, shell shocked. waiting for french president fra
francois hollande who has just landed here in nice and is expected any moment. this is a scene of devastation. the death toll stands at 84 at this hour. a number of people injured. authorities are questioning that the death toll could rise. a father and a son from texas were here for the fireworks, as were tens of thousands of people when this truck came and literally mowed them down as they stood enjoying the evening's festivities for the bastille day celebration here that is held on the boulevard every year. they always shut the streets down for the stretch of the boulevard, mika. and there is no vehicle traffic allowed and that is when that truck came through here, just as the fireworks ended about 10:20 france time last night. >> nbc janet shablian. the attack in nice is the latest in a string of violence across france over the past year and a
half. in january of 2015 two men stormed the offices killing 12 people there. two days later, a gunman attacked a kosher grocery store in paris and killed four hostages. in november, 130 people were killed after a series of coordinated attacks by isis-linked terrorists at the nearby cafes in paris. france has been under a state of emergency since then. this year on the anniversary of the charlie hebdo attacks officers shot and killed a knife-wielding man outside a police station near paris. investigators found he had a piece of paper with an emblem of isis on it. in june police and his companion were killed in their home. isis claimed responsibility for that attack. also a string of other incidents in france including vehicles ramming into people. on december 21, 2014, a driver
plowed his vehicle into pedestrians injuring 13 people. the next day a van drove into shoppers at a christmas market in nanties leaving ten people injured. a man drove his car into troops guarding a mosque in southern france. one soldier and a muslim man were killed. mike? >> don at this point there is more that we don't know about what occurred than we do know. we do know that the casualties are numbering up to 84, perhaps growing. but it gets to one person, one guy, now dead, in a truck driving into a crowd of people along a boulevard in nice, france. and it gets to, i think, probably one of the largest conundrums that intelligence and police forces face, the lack of human intelligence within cells like isis. >> yeah. i mean, we speak about this all the time.
when you have one person acting and, i guess, really, one of the key questions right now is this an isis-controlled or is this just an isis-inspired or anything to do with isis at all? i think the investigation needs to unfold before we understand that. but it just underscores the difficulty that intelligence and law enforcement is facing right now because there is so much of this material out there that can cause somebody to be radicalized. and, you know, this wasn't sophisticated in terms of explosions and, you know, devices that need a lot of training to make. it's driving a truck. but deadly. and that information, that kind of inspiration has been out on the internet for a long time. i remember even going back to 2010 where the "inspire" magazine posted an article about welding blades on to a vehicle and they called it the ultimate mowing machine that had to take out people with their car.
it's a huge challenge for law enforcement and intelligence. >> richard haass. >> what it shows. if you think of isis as an organization as opposed to a network and movement and an idea. isis as an organization is plenty dangerous. that we can track. you can see people moving and so forth. isis as a network or idea or movement in some ways is much more difficult. because you don't know how its reach actually manifest itself. somebody wakes up one day and goes to a local hardware store or goes in this case to a truck and does some horrendous thing. that, to me, is the lesson of this. i'm much more worried about isis as a movement. >> for video and digital content because everything that we see here and the video behind you, cal. the political responses to it kind of feeds upon itself, does it not? >> this is used by isis as a recruiting tool.
they go for the loner. they know the profile. they provide this sense of meaning. reminded of the orlando shooter who took two hours while holed up in a bathroom to raddle off, it's like saying i'm a fan of the yankees and the red sox, it makes no sense. more meaning of people who have been ostracized in society one way or another whether financial or religious reasons. this is the ideology they provide. in an election season in the u.s. it puts fuel on the fire. >> bob woodward, you know, we talk about how we can defeat this ideology. that's a major cause of concern. a lot of u.s. politicians are talking about it in terms of what to do back here in the united states with newt gingrich calling on, you know, testing muslims and donald trump calling
on -- i'm curious your thoughts on what can be done overseas particularly with the arab governments in the region. we have constantly propped up legitimized and gave credibility to and how they can change and what they can do to combat this ideology and this extremism that really has its roots in that part of the world. >> i think the main thought is you can't appear weak. operationally or politically. and if you see what hillary clinton said she said, let's have a summit and work with our allies. that's probably not enough and it was suggested that trump's idea of declaring war seems quite extreme. but if you step back a little bit, if, as the cia director john brennan recently suggested, this is going to come to the united states. maybe a declaration of war is
something that might work. it's been since world war ii that actually congress declared war. but if you did it in a practical sense, you get congressional buy in in terms of budget, legislation, support for intelligence operations, covert operations and so forth. this may be where it's going. >> well, you mentioned the candidates. this is happening in the midst of a heated polarizing, nasty election here in the united states. and both presidential candidates spoke out on interviews last night about the attack in france. we'll start with what donald trump had to say. >> would you go to congress and ask for a declaration of war? >> i would. i would. this is war. if you look at it, this is war. coming from all different parts and, frankly, it's war and we're dealing with people without uniforms.
these people were allowing people into our country who we have no idea where they are, where they're from, who they are. they have no paperwork. they have no documentation, in many cases. and hillary clinton wants to allow 550% more in than even obama. >> it will be by the end of the summer 10,000 syrian refugees. 20% women, 60% children, 20% men. do you consider those people threats? do you consider them security threats? >> of course i do. >> it's terrible, but france has faced too much tragedy and violence and we need to stand strongly with them because events like this remind us how vital it is in every way not to abandon them. we need to strengthen our alliances and i include nato in that. we have to do more to understand that this is a war against these terrorist groups.
the radical jihadist groups. it's a different kind of war. we need to be smart about how we wage it, but zee to be determined that we're going to win it and that is going to require working with other people. >> let me ask you this question. when you hear the way our presidential candidates are talking about this, how is that heard outside the united states? >> well, there's a bit of a disconnect. on one hand, you, there's a debate about using the word islamic terrorism. france uses that terminology and that didn't stop france from being attacked. you're hearing, as well, newt gingrich talking about a test on muslims or you're hearing lieutenant general. >> very severe statement. >> you're also hearing comments by others saying that you should ban muslims or mike pence saying that the west is being attacked and the notion that we're being attacked here in our home, there are a few disconnects with that. this is what you hear from a lot
of diplomats, particularly in the gulf. they constantly say muslims are being killed more than westerners. this is not an attack on western civilizati civilization, this is an attack on all civilizations. they're willing to get in that fight. the other disconnect, though, is the notion about war. what is a war look like more than what we are doing now? are you prepared to put ground troops into syria and in iraq to, once and for all, fight isis? >> once and for all. >> ask richard the question on the back of that, there is a school of thought i know in foreign policy circles. isis is losing the war on the battlefield and that's why it is intensifying in places like france and western europe. you believe that's true? >> absolutely. isis gives you a target and their control over territory has been gradually, but steadily shrinking. in both syria and iraq. and what we're seeing is all these bombing attacks and saudi
arabia, which is a real tatarge the islamic state. this is something through inspiration and much harder to respond to it. one of the reasons, by the way, that the war metaphor in some ways doesn't quite work for us. war is great against traditional targets that are physical targets. war is much less useful for something that is so decentralized. >> gene robinson, increasingly tougher talk from the candidates, especially in the republican side is these events unfold and events will occur in the future. but within the last ten months, the president of the united states, barack obama, has indicated that he wants for congress to review the use of military force to heighten the war against isis and syria and throughout the middle east. that request has been rejected by our republican congress. where does it go from here politically? >> well, that's a good question.
you know, congress, if congress does want to get serious and to go on record with as agreeing with the tough rhetoric that we're hearing on the campaign trail, then why doesn't congress give us the president a new authorization for the use with military force and i think i would assume there would be a renewed effort to move in that direction. but, you know, the question is, how does any of this really aactaa attack the root problem of some of the attacks we've seen recently in this country and in france which is not just isis and not really isis operatives. this doesn't seem to have been an isis operative in france, but these instances of self-radicalization. individual radicalization. in a free society, even in a not free society, how do you on that
granular level prevent something like this? a man in a truck. and that's, you know, that's a big question. it certainly implemensmplicates suggests that we need to look at large crowds in a different way. when large crowds gather. now, here in washington, for example, for the fourth of july fireworks, there's a security perimeter on the mall. and there are huge security arrangements. however, that doesn't take place in every single city across the country. >> mike. >> bob woodward, and then richard haass and then don barelli. starting with bob woodward. you have written about it extensively the central intelligence agency and nsa, what about the incubators of isis? the incubators where people feel apart, removed from society,
hopeless. countries like saudi arabia. many countries in the middle east. the incubators for these revolutionaries and these terrorists. what do we do about these governments? >> it's a giant problem and it's been suggested. a lot of this is not preventable. and there are all these people in silicone valley and in the high-tech world who are entrepreneurial and creative and people have to start thinking about this and, you know, use the old robin williams line, we need to find new ways to think about things and deal with them. but i still go back to the idea of you need, if particularly, if this comes to the united states. should it not? i mean, my god. but you have the cia director saying it certainly is possible. should that happen, you need some sort of national
mobilization. you need a president and a congress to say, we're going to do something different and we're not going to appear weak. a lot of this has to do with -- >> what does that look like, richard haass? >> it's already come to the united states and it will continue to come here. no single answer and mean probably greater surveillance and greater cooperation with local communities and affecting what is said and religious institutions and educational institutions. we're going to have to fight this on multiple fronts and multiple time horizons dealing with people who made the career choice to become terrorists and discourage other people from making that career choice. >> the danger and the rhetoric if you alienate and hear the rhetoric coming out towards muslims, intelligence officials, security officials will tell you, do not alienate the population and do not isolate this community. you must have their cooperation. you can see that in nice.
you can see where that community is there and why this kind of xhuntd can be manipulated and exploited to recruit. >> men and women trying to deal with this on the ground from a law enforcement perspective. it almost seems unpreventable. >> it's very difficult. i mean, as richard said, we're fighting a war against an idea. and it's going to be, it's going to take more than if you see something, say something or just say no or whatever. i mean, i think, in my opinion, this solution is going to probably come from places like saudi arabia and egypt where trying to win over the hearts and minds and challenge this idea with the credible alternative. that's going to take time. >> don, thank you. >> delegitimize it. more voices out there saying, this is simply unacceptable. we need voices in the islamic world. >> thank you, as well. ahead, we're going to go back live to nice for the very latest reporting on yesterday's
attack that left 84 people dead along the french riviera. we'll speak with congressman adam shift, one of the top lawmakers on the intelligence committee who has called july a month of madness and hinhumanit. you're watching "morning joe" special coverage. we'll be right back. ltra sheer®. unbeatable protection helps prevent early skin aging and skin cancer with a clean feel. the best for your skin. ultra sheer®. neutrogena®.
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>> i remember looking up and seeing a wave of people with completely panic-stricken faces running towards me at full steam screaming at the top of their lungs, trampling baby strollers and my first instinct was to just run in that same direction. as soon as i took off we started hearing the gunshots. that made me run even faster. i turned around to make sure i was with the person i was traveling with. and luckily we got away safe. but it was, my instinct told me immediately something was terribly, terribly wrong. >> that was a witness just after the attack in nice. actually, kate tuir' best friend who was running for his life. we continue to follow the very latest out of nice. a truck drove through a crowd
celebrating bastille day. the truck reportedly drove 1.2 miles along a promenade full of people. opened fire on the rebelers before bei fatally shot by police. unclear whether the driver acted alone. so far no terror group claimed responsibility for the attack. today was supposed to be the day when donald trump officially announced his pick for vice president. yesterday evening nbc news and other outlets reported that he had chosen indiana governor mike pence to be his running mate. pence arrived around 6:00 p.m. after a private flight into a new jersey airport, for what was to be an 11:00 a.m. announcement this morning. but as more was learned about the terror strike in france, trump tweeted, "in light of the horrible attack in nice, i have postponed tomorrow's news conference concerning my vice presidential announcement." he expounded last night. >> i haven't made my final,
final decision. i mean, i've got three people that are fantastic. i think newt is a fantastic person. i think chris christie is a fantastic person. been a friend of mine for 15 years. just a fantastic person. and this mike, mike has done a great job as governor of indiana. you look at the numbers and it's been great. he's done really a fantastic job. but i haven't made a final, final decision. out of respect for this horrific situation, i just think it was inappropriate to have the news conference tomorrow so i postpone the news conference and we'll announce tomorrow when it will be. >> did the terror attack influence your selection of your vice president? >> no, absolutely not. what happened is i think it would be totally inappropriate to have a news conference on a vice presidential pick. >> the "los angeles times" reports trump told a fund-raiser in bel air he will name his running mate over the weekend.
his son, donald trump jr., said the announcement will come over the weekend, as well. paul spoke with the "washington post" late last night and said they plan to put out something this morning. asked if trump will meet with mike pence or any other vice presidential prospects, he said, i'm not going to speak for him. he'll make a statement tomorrow and he'll clarify how we're going to go forward on the issue. meanwhile, governor pence faces a state deadline tomorrow at noon. he must withdraw from his re-election campaign to allow leaders to select a replacement candidate. joining us now from washington, nbc news political director moderator of "meet the press" chuck todd. and here on set, nbc news correspondent katy tur who is covering the trump campaign. glad your friend is okay. that must have been incredible. mike, i think the deadline for mike pence should be the ultimate ceiling on what we
already know. >> t-minus 48 hours and counting. >> look, i think at this point if you are mike pence you got on that plane and you left the state, send the papers in. regardless of what he does at this point with trump because i don't know how you would come back and be able to run for re-election and say, never mind, voters of indiana, i really do want to be governor. i swear. i wasn't looking for another job. i think that deadline at this point. he can't see here and say trump's got to make his decision by then. i think pence is, if his chips are in the table, that part of it is done. and, feigniin fact, i think tru would respect him more if he was, you know, that comfortable going out on a limb like that. >> katy, translate trump's speech. i haven't made my final, final decision. >> he wanted to get all the attention from it. it got away from him. a number of campaign aides
telling reporters all day yesterday that it was going to be pence and people that were certainly close to the candidate saying it was going to be pence and i think the news breaking in france took a lot of the planned pomp and circumstance out of it. and it just got away from the campaign and it got away from donald trump. and he's trying to dial it back and regain some control, which is hard to do when the, you know, horse is already out of the gate. >> john? >> you also had the amazing spectacle of a lot of the things that katy just talked about. a lot of others dialed it back in the afternoon saying, hold on, mr. trump hasn't made a final decision. he could change his mind. 24 hours, it's daonald trump. an extraordinary amount of confusion yesterday and i'll risk getting my journalist card revoked for this. i find this spectacle over the last four years. frenzy trying to figure out who the pick is going to be when, as
of yesterday, an announcement scheduled for 11:00 the next day. it is donald trump, though, and it has been, you know, historically over time, we've seen he's mu-- pence is the one who got on the plane and the one coming here. >> how do you put pence on a plane and not pick him? >> he picked him, okay. >> you know, my view isn't until the announcement -- >> until the words come out of his mouth, you could never predict what donald trump is going to do. once you put somebody, a governor of a state on a plane and bring them to new york, i don't know how you say it's not going to be you. >> chuck, let me ask you this question. let me ask you this question, chuck. it would be, obviously, an act of extraordinary humiliation. put pence on a plane, a plane that i believe trump paid for. fly him to new york and then not pick him. but is it possible that might still happen that way? >> well, look, it depends.
we don't know exactly, you know, was trump as enthusiastic about pence as say the political advisors? does trump feel like he was cornered a little bit. we don't fully know. i have to say, just watching all this, you just have to ask, what is it that pence never fit what trump is. right? picking pence is the ultimate sort of normal, political, insider thing to do. which is so counter to how trump has run his campaign and trump a has run his candidacy. even though it is the safe and logical pick on one hand if you're treating donald trump as your generic politician for the last 40 years. but this is a risky thing for trump to do, which is go conventional. i don't know if he's comfortable going this conventional and i think we saw a little bit of that discomfort play out
yesterday, to be honest. >> when you look at this, these three options, aman, you have chris christie. for trump, it's all about the family and the issue with jared, ivanka's husband, father, being prosecuted by chrisit,ie and going to jail. chris christie could be attorney general, i guess. newt gingrich which is just a bull in the china shop. if you didn't know that, take a look at what he said about the attacks. we're not going to show it now. i'd rather never show it, again, but if you want to look it, it's -- for donald trump, this is someone who would take all the oxygen out of the room. you tell me if donald trump wants someone who would outshine him with ridiculous statements. >> that's what i was, that's the content of so many conversations i had with people close to him and inside the campaign. donald trump wants to be the
headline maker of this campaign. newt gingrich would be an additional headline maker at times he would have to respond to newt. chris christie is the same way. a very loyal surrogate. but chris christie is his own man and who will he become if he gets the vice presidential pick. pence was safe, certainly. the family liked him. kind of like pence, too. and donald trump liked pence. more chemistry, i'm told by them and donald trump jr. yesterday said this behind the scenes than you might have expected. >> okay, one last factor in between the plane ride from indiana and mike pence arriving in new york city, we had a thing happen in nice, france. there were at least 84 dead. so, the vice presidential selection, mike pence or anyone else is going to be asked at that press conference, donald trump has asked for a declaration of war. do you agree? what happens then? >> good question. you know, one of the things that
i think, that i think is true is that the vice presidential picks are most successful when the nominee really knows the person he's picking and has an operation set up to defend that person when they first come out. now, mike has been in public light for a long time. he's never been on the national stage in this way. my question going forward is, how well, on the basis of what we saw yesterday and all this confusion and all these questions, how well set up is the trump operation to present this pick and then to defend this pick? because there are going to be a lot of questions. some driven by democrats and some just driven by the press. mike pence, not newt gingrich. he's been on the national stage for 30 years, 40 years. we all know chris christie ran for president. mike pence is still a relative unknown in the national sphere and a lot of incoming. how well is the trump campaign set up to deal with that? >> chuck todd, thank you very much. we'll be watching "meet the
press" this sunday. katy, thank you, as well. coming up, the latest on the investigation into the deadly attack in nice, france. 84 people are dead after a truck drove into a crowd along the french riviera and what president francois hollande has called a terrorist attack. we're back in just a moment. ♪ ♪ or building the best houses in town. or becoming the next highly-unlikely
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up next, we're going to bring in long-time reporter bob franken who was vacations in nice yesterday, when terror struck. a horrific past couple years of terror attacks in france. yesterday they used a truck. we'll analyze the latest tactic of terror and how authorities can keep people safe if at all possible. former head of the national counterterrorism center under presidents bush and obama.
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but the best place to start is in the forest. kubo: i spy something beginning with..."s" beetle: snow. kubo: no. beetle: snow covered trees. monkey: nothing to do with snow. narrator: head outside to discover incredible animals and beautiful plants that come together to create an unforgettable adventure. kubo: wow! narrator: so grab your loved ones monkey: don't even. narrator: and explore a world of possibilities. kubo: come on, this way. narrator: visit discovertheforest.org to find the closest forest or park to you. it is 43 past had hour. let's bring in journalist bob franken. there's a long delay. so, bob, if you could just describe for us what happened. what you saw. >> well, we did not see the actual bus actually running over
the pedestrians. we had watched the fireworks from an apartment we were renting on the apartment and it had been closed off by police because of this special event. it was the firework event celebrating bastille day. in any case, we had gone back to our room and suddenly we heard the screaming and yelling and we saw from our balcony people racing away from the scene. and we could look out, we were only about 100 feet or 150 feet away across the street and see bodies littered everywhere. my wife is also a journalist, we did, of course, what those in the business do. we immediately headed to the story and saw a gruesome scene. a gruesome scene. meanwhile, up the road a little bit was the truck that had run over the pedestrians and it is now sitting where it was because the police had finally shot the driver. there was little question from
all the witnesses we talked to that this was an intentional act. this was nothing that could be possibly attributed to an accident. earlier a heavy police presence to expect wherever we are in the world, but you get used to that. it's not like that set off any warnings or anything like that. my wife and i were on vacation, and, obviously, that's not something we are continuing to do. because now we have to continue this story. >> thank you, bob franken, for doing that for us. nice is just the latest in a long chain of brutalities that has happened around the globe over the last few years. in a quiet corner of paris in january of 2015, gunmen stormed the offices of "charlie hebdo" slaughtering 12 people and ended days later in a siege when asilnts atakd people shopping in a kosher market killing even
more. months later, a gunman opened fire in two military centers in chattanooga, tennessee. killing four marines and critically wounding a sailor. people sitting in cafes were murdered in a wave of terror attacks across paris. 130 died in those attacks. weeks later a massacre at a meeting at a community center in san bernardino, california. turned into the massacre that was caused by the radicalized husband and wife shooters who died in the shootout with police. this past march in brussels, belgium, suicide bombings resulted in 35 deaths and wounded hundreds. a gunman in orlando, florida, stormed a nightclub and killed 49 wounding dozens more. at the start of this month, patrons of a cafe in bangladesh were taken hostage and murdered. hours later in iraq, a suicide bomber hit a crowded baghdad
shopping area killing more than 250 people. these are just a few of the blows that peaceful people going about their daily lives have felt whether it's a hotel or a resort in morocco and the airport gate at istanbul or a university in pakistan. the loss of security in places of civilian life have really changed our world. joining us from boston now, former fbi counterterrorism agent and clint watts. and in washington, nbc news national security analyst and former head of the national counterterrorism center under presidents bush and obama. michael leiter now with the national security company. mike barnicle. >> michael leiter, i want to take you back to your old job for a second if you could tell us you're downstairs in the situation room and you and your people are gathered around the country and you're looking at the countries that are the
incubators of a lot of this stuff. looking at saudi arabia and places in the middle east, including iran where a lot of this stuff is fomented. let me ask you, what can we do that we're not doing with regard to the incubators of a lot of this activity, a lot of this terrorism. what can we do that we're not doing? >> well, mike, the first thing i do is give a little bit intelligence presentation than you just did. there's no doubt that some of the ideology is rooted in places like saudi arabia and else where. but part of my message to the president is, mr. president, this isn't just about egypt. this isn't just about syria. this is about the populations that exist in the west today. many of the attacks that we talked about really don't have anything other than ideological linkage back. if we don't have effective engagement with disenchanted populations and north africans in paris or nice or outside brussels or god forbid here in the united states, we can do
everything possible in egypt and syria, iraq. and we will still have a problem. and that, that, a core of that is where isis has succeeded where al qaeda really failed for many years. >> how can they succeed and we cannot combat this success? >> well, this is a really complicated problem. and i know people want the silver bullet to know, how do we stop this right now? and the fact is, like any other complicated social phenomenon, it takes offense. it takes in places like syria and iraq to show that movement can't win there. it takes defense. defense against a truck and an angry 31-year-old is really hard. it takes deep engagement. and takes engagement for those communities to identify those who are vulnerable and then put in the other places who hopefully provide that last line of defense whether it's a police presence or final investigations, you know, making sure that people who have
commercial drivers licenses like we do here in the united states aren't susceptible. but these are the final rows of defense. if we don't get farther up the line chain of terrorism and how they're made and where they come from and how they plan and how they communicate and trying to bring in many of the migrants and the descendants of those migrants. what it should look like against the particular rhetoric that we're hearing that many would say is alienating these communities. a ban on muslims and testing their loyalties and online activities and some even patrolling their neighborhoods earlier in the campaign season. do those things help or alienate?
and most of the isis recruits that we have here in the u.s. here in the u.s. what we really need to look for is more of the technical surveillance and looking at the open source and social media. our best chance when you look a social media. our best chance is to pick them up through electronic communications. we don't have the same sort of neighborhood context you see there. >> clint and michael, thanks to you both. still ahead, we'll speak with the ranking member of the house committee. congressman keith ellison also joins us. you're watching "morning joe."
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>> up next we continue to follow the very latest out of nice, fra france. a man driving a truck drove into a crowd. we'll go back to janet who is speaking with eyewitnesss this morning. we'll be right back. we got another one. i have an orc-o-gram for an "owen."
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he was just mowing people down. i can't even tell you how many people i saw die in front of my eyes. you have to understand the crime scene itself is 2 miles long. there is just a pathway of bodies. >> egypt and with our hands on the head like this. >> i was terrified. i put my hands on the baby's mouth so she wouldn't scream. i thought if the shooter is close hopefully he thinks we are
laying dead and we are not alive so he won't come and shoot us. people had already ran and at that point that's why we were on the floor. it's like we are sitting ducks. it's not like we can run with the crowd. other people had already realized what was going on way before we realized what was going on. at that point the smartest thing to do was hope. top of the hour, 84 people are dead in the latest terrorist atrack in france -- attack in france. a truck zigzagged along a promenade who had just finished watching the spectacle. the driver also fired shots into the crowd. the driver of that truck according to the french president was fatally shot by police. they later discovered grenades
and explosives in the back of the truck. authorities are trying to figure out whether the driver acted alone. minutes earlier full of joy was suddenly set with panic and death. an american father and son, sean copeland and his son brodie did not make it out alive. the paris prosecutors office -- and dating back has been extended another three months. during a news conference they said france as a whole is under the threat of islamic terrorism. they said france would step up the isis targets in syria and iraq. it is friday, july 15th. welcome back to "morning joe." i'm miark halprin and senior
editor cal perry and assistant director of the fbi, sean henry. nbc news janet happened to be on vacation and she join us on the phone. tell us what the latest is and also what you saw last night. >> reporter: hello. thousands of people have gathered here. some of them were coming back to see what remains. they number in the thousands. perhaps the police presence numbered a thousand as well. there are police every few feet
here. they have coblocked off perhaps mile or more of the promenade that runs along this strip of beautiful hotels and along the mediterranean. tens of thousands people gathered for the fireworks show at 10:00. this tragedy unfolded just after the fireworks ended, perhaps 10:2 10:20, 10:30. we didn't come down for nice like we did many times. we watched them from a relative's home about 9 miles away. you could see them very clearly. it was a scene of carnage as this truck just rolled through the barricade. they closed the streets down on b bastille day. some of the witness es told me
they believe initially that the driver was lost, that he didn't know what he was doing. his true motive became apparent. he was stopped eventually by police, just short of the hotel here. right now police have covered the evidence. they have sort of fenced it off with a white sheet. thousands of people are coming here. it is a very sad, devastating scene to witness. >> thank you very much. french president did say that many of the victims were children. >> sean henry, we know very little about the driver at this point in the developing story. if you notice on the film clips, the tapes that we are showing, the truck comes to a stop and then proceeds again after coming tostop. so i realize the conjecture but
i will ask you, what do you think was happening at that point when the truck driver stops the truck and the second question is the degree of difficulty in infiltrating groups like isis. the first question is what's your conjecture why that truck stops then proceeds? >> we certainly don't know, mike. who that driver was and what his motive was will be key. we see a number of bullet holes through the windshield. perhaps he was disoriented and was regaining composure to continue his mission. what law enforcement can
globally do, in the past when we focused on al qaeda and others who had financial arrangements, financial pro pprotocols in plae talk about those who may be inspired who don't have a large-scale conspiracy much more difficult to get into the minds of those people. that's the vulnerability we face now, the inability to specify what the threat is to go out and mitigate it. >> and i have a question. the first thing obviously, one of the first things, we'll try to track this guy down. if it's confirmed there are ties to terrorist organizations and they will probably find things on his computer that confirm that but then what? there is so much out there that is used as recruiting tools. all of this video and all of this conversation.
gingrich's probably churning out there already. beyond that, what can be done to use that in a productive way to help counter this. >> and they are owning this news cycle. we have heard the u.s. military that they are now going to start prioritizing some of the web folks isis has. this is not an organization that is media savvy. they do their own video tapes. they do their own propaganda videos. they put this stuff on the front pages of magazines. we had in the magazine that isis puts out instructions on how do this, how to use a car. >> we don't know if this is jitters or concerns but we are being told that the nbc news crew at the nice airport have been told among others to evacuate. the reason is unclear at this
point. we'll be following that. the nature of nice as a target just geographically. >> it is in the southest eaern corner of france. it is part of the french riviera. it is very close to the cities of all of these others. just on the other side of the tracks so to speak, on the other side of the promenade you have one made up of the descendants of immigrants. it is not as rough or dangerous as the port city for weapons trafficking but certainly has its own problems, similar to what we saw in other cities following the attacks in paris.
folks complain of discrimination, racism in the job searches and trying to find good housing. the city itself has the problems in other areas that have been issues of discrimination. again, a very different tale of different cities. >> we know very little about the truck driver shot dead. sean henry, what's the possibility he acted completely alone given what was found inside his truck? >> we won't know of course until probably weeks into this. investigators looking at a whole host of information, when they can finally identify him and get to his residence, vehicles, media devices and start to exploit those to look for who he might have been in contact with. this is the concern, those who are acting alone who are
inspired online. again, we won't know until we conduct this investigation in a thorough manner but it is of grave concern because you can't get inside the heads of all of these people looking to reach out and wreak halvoc across. >> many according to the president of france are children. we also have word that an nbc crew at the airport have been told the evacuate along with others. the reason is unclear at this point point. we are holding back a little bit. >> it appears the airport evacuation was triggered by a bag left unattended. so here is some of what trump and clinton said. >> would you go to congress and ask for a declaration of war?
>> i would. i would. this is war. if you look at it, this is war coming from all different parts. frankly, it's war and we are dealing with people without uniforms. these people, we are allowing people into our country who we have no idea where they are, where they are from. they have no paperwork, no documentation in many cases and clinton wants to allow 550% more than obama. >> and will be by the end of the summer 10,000 syrian refugees. do you consider those people threats? >> yes. >> do you consider them security threats? >> of course i do. >> it's terrible france faced too much tragedy.
events like this remind us how vital it is not to abandon them. we need to strengthen our lives and i include nato in that. we have got to do more to understand that this is a war against these terrorist groups, the radical jihadist groups. we need to be smart about how we wage it but we have to be determined that we are going to win it. >> absolutely. >> it will require working with other people. >> what is happening now is we are taking territory back in iraq. we are squeezing them with inconsistent air attacks. we have killed a number of their leaders. we are putting together a much more effective coalition. i would intensify those efforts. i have no problem with having a summit. i would include not only nato allies. we have great allies holding the
lines for us like jordan and israel, others who are really on the front lines themselves. >> sure. >> and we just have word that there is a suspicious package at the nice airport. they are checking it out right now. there is an evacuation taking place. this attack in nice among many others we have seen in recent months is happening in the midst of the dirtiest u.s. presidential election process that we have seen in our lifetimes, unless i'm wrong. this is gut wrenching tough stuff that's happening between candidates and from all analysis it seems like it could get dirtier. their responses to this attack? i guess i would see trump editing a little bit compared to reactions to past events. and hillary clinton kind of still on lists that are really a
little bit more wonky. any of them saying anything that touches the american people? >> two post 9/11 presidents have pursued two tracks. one is toughness, using droning and going hard after terrorism using force and other soft power try to go build coalitions and deals with the islamic world in a more techtured way. trump is more of emphasis on the first one. saying we need to declare war is not something clinton said last night. she is more concerned with soft power. they are more important. we are headed towards one guy with toughness and pursuing a war. >> we have a problem here with -- at least for clinton's
cand candidacy, if there are more and more attacks like this isn't the change going to be what we have been doing hasn't been working. we fail until syria. we need someone, something stronger. >> there is no question that is a vulnerable for her. >> whether that's right or wrong. >> if the country wants someone who will be different than barack obama in terms of full emphasis on the first track. it is wrong to say barack obama hasn't aggressively used force. >> i didn't say that. people are going to feel this is stepping up. >> clinton will force trump to be more specific. but last night you play the sound you just played. one talking about war and one
saying she would nn't oppose a summit. the visceral is stronger right now. >> you have spent an enormous amount of time with trump covering the campaign. what is your trump's answer would be to the following question, you want to declare, mr. trump, are you willing to reimpose a draft in the united states of america? >> he would say what is necessary. >> and we'll build the greatest military. >> yeah. i mean like i said, without a lot of specifics. it will be interesting to see in terms of policy proposals but how much has he turned it into a discussion of these issues? >> i agreed with hillary clinton's comments. i wonder at this point how the
american people take in this information. >> we'll lose this war. but in the short term -- >> people are scared. >> yeah, and they want a tough visceral reaction. >> yeah, i think when you see how he campaigned on being the law and order candidate and talking about water boarding he is certainly positioning himself as the candidate who can deliver specifics. he also said nuclear weapons against isis and syria so there's a lot of tough language. that tough language will r-- no just in the way we are seeing here in san bernardino but -- >> the lack of detail is where ultimately he could be weak. i think the presidential debates will be highly watched. americans will watch those debates. if he doesn't have specifics she
will destroy him. it is great to talk tough but you have nothing. >> go back to what you said before. he clearly learned to how he reacted to things in the past. >> yeah, you see it. >> his tone is more modulated and how his reaction can go off track. >> well, thank you very much sean and cal. still ahead we'll speak to adam shift. plus it was supposed to be the big news of the day, donald trump's announcement of his running mate. we'll have the latest on where things stand this morning. you're watching "morning joe."
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:21 past the hour. the evacuation has been lifted at the nice airport. in terminal one there was a suspicious package but everything is okay now. we were supposed to learn who would be trump's running mate. donald trump had chosen indiana governor mike pence -- trump changed his plans. >> i haven't made my final, final decision. >> i have three people that are fantastic. i think newt is a fantastic person. i think chris christie is a fantastic person, been a friend of mine for 15 years, just a fantastic person. and mike, you look at the numbers and he's done really a fantastic job. i haven't made a final, final decision. out of respect for this horrific
situation i think it was inappropriate to have a news conference tomorrow so i postponed the news conference and we'll announce tomorrow when it will be. >> did the terror attack selectr vice president? >> absolutely not. i think it would be inappropriate to have a news conference on a vice presidential pick. >> trump told a fundraiser in bell air he will name his running mate over the weekend. pence faces a state deadline at noon which could be quite telling. he could formally withdraw from ind campaign to allow indiana leaders to find a replacement candidate. >> they don't pick right away. if he is not sure he can withdraw and then if trump changed his mind he could put his name back in. so the deadline is a bit of a
m m mirage. >> okay. what are you hearing about trump's decision? >> reporter: it would be almost optically political suicide for pence to withdraw his name and try to get back on the ballot. it wouldn't work for him probably when you look at how it would play out politically. there is pressure for this decision to be made soon or for trump to announce it. we think it will happen this weekend. that is what paul is saying publicly. he is appearing on networks saying trump hasn't announced it yet. so there is no formal v.p. nominee at this point. really what it is doing is under scoring even among his top aids until we hear it from trump himself here is a done deal. this is coming from our team
including kelly, trump was watching news coverage, irritated about what he was seeing. he was stewing basically believing the leaks were coming from indiana and frustrated he appeared to be losing control of the news cycle. his top advisers here in cleveland not here in california. he was not surrounded by his top aids. i said what's with the indecision? they said listen, it's a big decision, he is take his time. there is a sense that there needs to be a calming of the waters here. his team has clean-up to do after this, after issues with the speakers convention list. i'm told there are people that are told -- it is why they sort of pushed tebow's name out there as a confirmed speaker. tebow said it is just a rumor
and he will not be here. there are things that need to happen that the campaign is in control, that they do have a plan, that they are able to move forward. you're seeing that already. trying to say listen, this decision will come down. there will be an announcement. trump himself saying my decision to postpone only has to do with the attacks in france and not necessarily because he is having second thoughts. it is a fairly wild ride here and in the meantime you have governor pence sitting in new york sort of waiting to hear from trump. >> waawkward. up next we'll bring in bill live in nice, france, with his latest reporting. it has changed french landscape. up next we are joined by adam
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it's 8:30 ton the east coas. joining us is bill. what's the scene like this morning and what do we know about the investigation so far?
>> reporter: yeah, good morning. it is an empty street right now apart from the media. last night this street was filled with thousands of people enjoying the bastille celebrations. just along the street there a white, 20-ton truck. it is still there behind the white fence. it came down the street at a high speed and plowed into the crowd. it carried on down the street at a high speed. according to eyewitnesss it was zigzagging on the street on the street then onto the board walk. it was plowing hundreds of people. at the moment the death toll stands at 84. people scattered when they saw the truck, literally running for their lives. i talked to bill and kathy wrap from canada. they described a scene of pure
panic. thousands of people seeking shelters in hotels and restaurants. it was pure panic. the truck kept coming until police opened fire. behind me there are at least a dozen bullet holes in that truck. it is also being reported that the driver fired shots from a pistol. it is not confirmed that he is of tunisian origin. who he is linked we don't yet know. there has been no claim of responsibility so far. the dead are not just french. there are also two americans, a father and a son from texas. this will be felt globally and it is being felt here. the french prime minister saying we have to accept a new reality. we have to live with this kind of terrorism far long time to
come. president obama saying we standby france, our oldest ally. you know, the security forces have been on high alert for bastille day because there was always a question of if it would happen. they could not see this coming. using a truck as a weapon of war. france has seen a lot. we have had suicide bombers, belts, ak-47s. many, many attacks. this is different and deeply worrying. the french authorities will be probing into the background of who we believe is 31 and from here in nice. france, this morning, today, guys, absolutely reeling. back to you. >> thank you so much. deeply worrying because how do you predict when the attacks now
come from so many different ankles aan angles. democratic congressman of california answer the transnational threats project for international studies thomas sanderson. former executive dr. evelyn farcus. i would like to how do you prepare -- how do you even study how to prepare with the transnational threats? your thoughts on what happened in nice. >> it is very difficult to prepare for these. when you have isis spokesman calling for attacks worldwide using a bullet, a bomb, a car, a
knife, a punch or a kick then anyone can take up a battle. it is difficult to prevent this attack from happening. i'm afraid it will be with us for a long time. >> and i'm curious to get your thoughts on the issue of security of perspective and how we measure success in this so called war on taerror. 15 years later we are fighting multiple terrorist organizations across iraq, syria. how are we measuring success in this war when we are seeing attacks like this happening infrequently? >> it's a great question. you have to ask with 15 years of warfare are we using the right approa approach? i guess i would measure it this way. we have been able to stop the massive kind of coordinate aid tack that was their hallmark
on 9/11. we have been successful by we rat kating. but isis has a very different model. they are going for volume rather than the massive kind of mult multi-aircraft we saw in 9/11. it will require us to intensify our efforts. we are going to have to go after them with renewed vigor. that is the yiel logical drew. we'll have the idealology and have to harden our defenses here at home. it is hard to measure success when we see this multiplicity of attacks around the world.
>> and the president has put out a statement. he has not come out and talked about it but what should the president be doing today in terms of coalition? >> that's a great question. first of all i think the president needs to get out there really strong and say okay. this is an assault on our values, on our way of life. the gingrich, the statements, these things play into the terrorists hands and make us more vulnerable. the president needs to say this is about standing up for our values together. i think he should call for a global summit. clinton said it shouldn't just be about the europeans. it should be about all of our allies and partners that are with us. get the folks together but reaffirm our values. the other thing, the congressman
mentioned 9/11. nato invoked article 5. they said it's irrelevant and that's donald trump. nato can show solidarity and call on article five right now which is basically an attack against one is an attack against all. i think now is the time. must have is enough. >> so sanderson, jump in here. preparing for attacks and trying to prevent attacks at this point, that's not going to stem the tide of people that want to incur damage on others. >> no. and there are tens of thousands that want to do that. we have had 40,000 foreign fighters travel to libyan battle space over years. you have time release operators
who are heed the call even from al qaeda to attack those who are attacking them. we will see it far long time as long as conditions continue to push people to the battlefield. >> adam shift. >> well, i think that's exactly right. we certainly had a lot of intelligence prior to this attack that a lot of foreign fighters would return to places like france and belgium. we didn't have advanced notice that any kind of a truck based plot like this. it may indicate it was a lone actor. it may turn out quite different. we could find out that this was a returned foreign fighter. when it is somebody who is self-radicalized that may use something as devastating as a truck and it shows no one
solution will solve this. calling in nato alone will not solve this. we do need to intensify nato's involvement. we need our allies to do a much more of underpinning this. we are not the right messenger in talking about what islam is and isn't. we need the powerful and moderate voices to be speaking out and helping us. >> yes. >> thank you very much. sander son, thank you as well. stay with us if you can. still ahead on "morning joe" we'll bring in keith ellison. >> as we go to break sympathy for the survivors in nice. dallas is mourning from its own violence. this is the omni hotel which
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i'm guessing smokey liked that idea. says it certainly looks like it will be my good friend mike pence referring to trump's vice presidential pick. it was far from the biggest headline gingrich had yesterday. keep it right here on "morning joe."
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our forces should be used to systematically destroy every internet base source. if we can't destroy them through the internet we should use various weapons starting with predators and start by just killing them. let me be as blunt as i can be. western civilization is in a war. we should test every person who is of a muslim background and if they believe in sheria they should be deported. modern muslims who have given up sheria, glad to have them as citize citizens. we need to be fairly relentless. anybody who goes on a web site
favoring isis or al qaeda or other felony groups, they should go jail. any organization should be closed down immediately. >> i can't even listen to it. that was gingrich reacting to yesterday's terror attacks in nice. joining us is kcochair, your reaction to speaker gingrich's comments. >> reporter: well, more important is my reaction to what happened in nice is pure sympathy and absolute condemnation of that horrific murderous truck rampage. the people who do that kind of thing, we absolutely have to stand against him. we have do it by engaging everybody who hates what they do including the muslim world,
which brings me to your question. we cannot afford to alienate allies. al qaeda kill more than any other group. why we would want to alienate allies, i don't know. he simply doesn't understand the nature of the conflict. it proves why he couldn't be any where close to power. he doesn't understand the conflict. it will cause more problems than he would ever hope to solve. >> and i want to bring you into the conversation. when you talk about making an attempt not to alienate the very people who could perhaps have the biggest influence in fighting these problems, muslim
americans and dirchfferent grou it sounds soft on terror. it sounds like we don't know what we are doing. it actually is the beginning and the end of the process. >> yeah, and unfortunately there is a negative misperception towards muslims in general. >> all of the -- the majority shows americans generally don't have a favorable view of islam as a religion. when gingrich was talking about issues of compatibility with western values it poses a serious challenge. it is very difficult for someone like gingrich to define what sheria law is. but the practicality of it, do you believe in sheria law are going to be honest with you? congressm
congressman, i wanted to pick up on the point you were talking about, not alienating the community. one of the issues is the issue of economical challenges faced by communities in paris and the slums there. we don't have those problems here in the united states. what are the challenges that the muslim community needs to be addressed to avoid that ali alienation further? >> >> reporter: we should only use law enforcement tools based on people's behavior, things they actually do to gain the interest of law enforcement. we should treat people the we would should expect, freedom of amendment, freedom of assembly. you know, for example, you have a lot of people that have never done anything and yet they have
tremendous trouble getting on airplanes. this is not helping us. we need to make sure we are reaching out and making sure there is opportunity and inclusion. we should actively fight back on prejudice as george w. bush did right after 9/11. >> uh-huh. >> reporter: so the bottom line is there is no such thing as one sheria. fasting of ramadan is sheria, by the way. he is talking about violent attacks on innocent people. that is what we all must condemn. we have to engage everyone to stop this kind of thing. that means whether you're muslim, christian, jew, whatever you are. >> what frightens me is i think
he knows better. >> reporter: he does know better. it is just calculating and pandering and it is very sad. >> it is. you wanted to make a point about syria. >> yeah. part of the problem is we didn't get to that element of it. i think mark mentioned the safe havens. we have to get rid of assad. at the heart is legitimacy. if we don't come to a solution that takes away any argument that the terrorists can use to recruit new followers then we are going to lose this. we have to make sure we have a settlement that looks fair and we alleviate the suffering in syria. >> thank you so much. you agree with that? >> reporter: yes, i do. >> thank you. we are back with more coverage of the attack in nice,
fran france. it is the third major attack in just nine months. points from my chase ink card i bought all the fruit... veggies... and herbs needed to create a pop-up pick-your-own juice bar in the middle of the city, so now everyone knows... we have some of the freshest juice in town. see what the power of points can do for your business. learn more at chase.com/ink see what the power of points can do for your business. you know what they used to do with guys like that when they were in a place like this? they'd be carried out on a stretcher, folks. and you wbr id "wbr105475" can tell them to go f--- themselves! i could stand in the middle of 5th avenue and shoot somebody and i wouldn't lose any voters, okay? it's like incredible. /b
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out whether the driver acted alo alone. a family spokesperson confirms an american father and son sean copeland and brodie copelands were killed. near hours before the president announced a nationwide state of emergency would come to an end by the end of the month. now it has been extended months more. they say france would step up bombings of isis targets in syria and iraq. that's the latest this hour. stay with us for the latest information on this breaking story. thomas roberts picks up the coverage right now. good morning i'm thomas roberts in new york. the terror attack in france. a path of destruction one mile long. 84 people confirmed dead.
two americans confirmed dead, a father and son from texas. >> he was mowing people down. i can't even tell you how many people i saw die. >> people fleeing for their lives, the driver firing randomly into the crowd. >> he was moving to the side like this and like this. i saw him take out his gun. he started to shoot the police. >> the attackers identity now known as france is now reeling. i'm stephanie here in cleveland, ohio. new security fears ahead of the republican national convention. they have weighed in on the terror attack overnight. >> this is war, a very different kind of war. >> mike pence gets the call as donald trump's vice president but trump delays the official announcement. >> we are covering these two big stories this morning. we begin abroad

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