The point is, we have to reform many of our economies, but the answer to reform is not to start cutting ourselves off from each other. Good morning. Youre listening to president obama. Hes speaking to an Industrial Group in hannover, germany, addressing a number of issues of international concern. Also announcing 250 troops headed to syria, additional u. S. Military personnel. And the president will be monitoring this, addressing also the relationship between the United States and germany and how much they have done together and can do together, moving forward. Good morning, everyone. Its monday, april 25th. Welcome to morning joe. With us on set, we have the macking editor of Bloomberg Politics and the cohost of with all due respect, that airs at 6 00 p. M. Eastern time on msnbc, mark halperin. Political writer for the New York Times, nicholas confessore, and professor harold
ford jr. Then we go to washington. Where we find Pulitzer Prize winning columnist and msnbc political analyst, Eugene Robinson. And what . Pulitzer Prize winning editorial writer for the Washington Post and msnbc contributor, jonathan capehart. Good to have you all on board this morning. I have nowhere to begin. How was everybodys weekend . Did everybody have a good weekend . Was it okay . Anybody do anything big this weekend . Because i tell you, i was, you know, sitting home, you know, you know, in my tshirt, reading twitter. I felt like a total loser. Really . Like, everybody went to see Bruce Springsteen play his tribute to prince. Apparently that was very cool. And im sitting there eating corn chips. Its all on youtube, you can just watch it there. So i shouldnt feel bad . Everybody was there. Bruce bruce in brooklyn. Thats big. What did you do, nick . Youre young. You had to have had a good time. I watched part of the game of thrones premiere until it stopped and told me i had to choose between that and fear the walking dead. A horrible choice. Meryl streep had her choice in sophies choice and now you have yours. Six of one, half dozen of another. Sophie had nothing on you. We had Major Developments in politics over the weekend. Nobody got stabbed. Bringing things to the table that makes no sense to anybody. Makes a lot of sense if youre not under 30 years old. Im more than prince. Im a big prince fan. I listened to that marathon incredibly talented. He wrote the sound track to my life. So bless his soul. Mmhmm. All right, so big developments in politics over the weekend. Ted cruz and john kasich are teaming up against donald trump. The campaigns announced last night that they are dividing up the primary map to clear a path for each other in select states. So far, kasich is getting the oregon and new mexico primaries to himself, while cruz has next weeks indiana primary. Still no agreement on the last big prize, california, where a fox news poll so, mark, this deal a little late . Its a little late, right . Its like youre sitting in purgatory and saying, you know, if i have a chance, im going to start going to church more regularly. No i mean, its too late, right . Its not mathematically too late, but the headline there called this a shock deal. Others have called it a deal of desperation. If trump wins indiana or wins it big, its over. And its been true for a while. And this is really about indiana. This is about one step at a time. Having made the deal, if cruz cant beat trump in indiana,
its over, barring some huge everybodys been saying, trump is winning by 30, 40 points, and new york and sweeping all these ah, forget about that, indiana. Forget about that, indiana. Indianas going to be his waterl waterloo. Two polls out this week and trumps up in indiana. But with kasich out, theres a chance cruz could beat him there now. Thats what this is about. Its about stopping him in indiana, because the symbolism of stopping him in indiana and the math of stopping him in indiana is vital, if theyre going to keep him from a majority. But the assumption means that people who are supporting kasich or cruz dislike trump so much, that theyre going to jump to the other guy to stop trump, which i just think, thats a lot of ifs and assumptions. Im not saying you. Theyre so different. Theyre very different. Its less about voters that be it is about the outside groups and the super pacs. The super pac group is running procruz, antikasich ads. They need every dollar spent to stop trump if im going to vote for john kasich aint no way in hell im voting for ted cruz. And vice versa. And vice versa. It could backfire. It costs ted cruz not much to cede oregon to john kasich. Yeah. Lets go to the polls. What do they do when they get to the convention. Whats the new deal . Say all this works, who gets the therell now be a week of negative ads against donald trump in indiana, which before had been divided. Which may actually help his numbers go up. But they didnt in wisconsin. Okay. So donald trump has a big lead going into tomorrows contests in the northeast. Big lead. Massive. In rhode island, the Brown University poll gives trump a doubledigit lead. 38 to john kasichs 25 with 14 for ted cruz. In pennsylvania, trump leads in the latest nbc wall street
journal marist poll, 45 to 27 . Crushing him. For cruz and then kasich at 24 . Trump is ahead in the cbs yougov. Poll. But was bemoaning the large number of unbound delegates according to pennsylvanias rule. Its an unfair thing. Because im way up in pennsylvania, but in pennsylvania, i think you get 17 delegates and the rest you have to negotiate for. What is this . whats going on . come on, you know what he just said there, thats what everybodys thinking i win pennsylvania by 20 to 25 points and then you want me to negotiate . no im negotiating directly with the voters. This fits right in with his brand. No. Not only does it fit into the brand, its time for people in my party and with democrats, too, with super delegates, which is just a total scam, and an insiders game, to just say, enough is enough. The systems rigged you dont negotiate with party
insiders. People go to the polls, they vote, they exercise their democratic right, and then we decide who wins based on the voting. It sounds nice. It sounds it actually sounds like america. On the other hand, how many times you say it sounds nice, i say it sounds like america. I was going to say, how can he he goes state after state and acts surprised, i cant believe these are the rules because hes doing that along with the people. On purpose. But he knows the rules. My point is, people are surprised their vote doesnt count. Its a ridiculous system. Im just saying the act is a little much. You have some utopian vision that voters should be able to pick the party nominee. No, actually, voters have that utopian vision. I that do. Im telling you, if anybody out there in the republican establishment think that they gain any points by mocking trump
for believing that if he wins a state by 20 to 25 points, he should win the delegates, and not then have to go negotiate. I tell you what, i would be raising holy hell. I just would. I would be raising hell. Thats what we do for a living. I would be saying, its a good act on his part. If i won a state by 25 poisnts and they try to take it away from me, thats all i would be talking about. I would burn their place to the ground politically and salt the earth so nothing would ever grow there again, politically. No, i would. I would say, im going to come back and win the nomination, im going to circle back around. If i dont get all these delegates i deserve politically, ill work the next four years to destroy your political career. It is so unfair. And these super delegates, it is the same thing on the democratic side. Its a scam. Its a total scam. Thank you. People are talking about Bernie Sanders not doing well right now. Bernie sanders was screwed from
the establishment from the getgo they screwed him in iowa, screwed him with delegates from the getgo. These are going to turn into irrelevant country clubs pretty soon if they dont clean this up. There are some states where trump has gotten more delegates than the percentage of the votes hes got. Hes benefited from the system in some cases. Kasich and cruz had this late deal last night. Trump was up saying, perfect pitch, this is all about insiders and losers trying to stop me. Today kasich and cruz are going to have to comment themselves on this deal. And its going to be very hard. Thats awkward. Awkward. They hate each other. Talking about process and how theyre teaming up to stop trump. And trumps going to be talking about a rigged system. Again, again, again, republicans missing their nose in front of their face, because they will end up getting ted cruz. If they somehow end up getting ted cruz, if they somehow wrangle that for themselves, that will be the worst thing ever for them. By the way, tell me about a senator in New Hampshire or some other state that wants ted cruz to come campaign for him or her . They dont. Listen, trumps still going to get 12307. Okay. Well, i dont care if he does or doesnt. I think hes very likely to get im more convinced today that he can get above 1,237 heading into the convention. I think the comparison between sanders is a little bit i dont think sanders was mistreated by the Democratic Party. Sanders had oh, my god hes been screwed from the beginning with the debates, with iowa. Oh, please Debbie Wasserman schultz, shes not in the tank, she built the tank. I agree that she should have added more debates. But nicks point is halfway right. Trump knew going in these rules. But it does seem weird you can win a state as big as hes winning and still have to walk away and try to figure out how to convince people the democrats dont have a system quite like that on our side. So we say, in that regard, theres not a fair parallel. But i think trump gets the you have something else. But its so much worse with the super delegates. Like ive said before, if republicans had a scam system like democrats, with the super delegates, jeb bush would still be in the race. Jeb would have gotten 500 super delegates. He could have lost the first ten primaries and found his groove and picked i was going to say, there hasnt been an election in which the super delegates went against the candidate, the actual pledged delegate lead. It hasnt actually ever been tested as a way to overrule the votes. And sanders, as well, has also won in a lot of states or has gotten more delegates than his votes the a lot of states. Hes actually benefited from the caucus system. Think about the impact, though, of having those super delegates. Every night, every night, every from the beginning with iowa. From the beginning. Iowa is and because of the proportional nature of this, yes, Bernie Sanders won the state by 87 Percentage Points, but with the super delegates and the fact that hell only get one more delegate than Hillary Clinton, theres no we were saying there was no way he was going to catch up with her when
we were 10 into this game. Its so rigged on the democratic side. But it creates an overhang it does. But if he won states, super delegates would shift. Lets go to gene robinson. Well, joe, it would be your point would be, i think, more valid if bernie were not behind in regular delegates. I mean, hes getting beat in pledged delegates. So when he overtakes Hillary Clinton in pledged delegates, then, yes, he has an argument to the super delegates. And what happens is the super delegates do listen. Now, you know, i dont like the system. I think the system is wrong. I dont think there should be super delegates. But what we saw in 2008 was that the super delegates, as the people switched from clinton to obama, the super delegates followed. They jumped ship. And thats what they would do again. Im convinced. But, you know, theres no reason for them to now, because their candidate is winning in pledged
delegates. My point is, and not just for this race, for any race is it creates an air of inevitability, jonathan capehart. So lets say jeb bush loses in iowa and New Hampshire and South Carolina. If you turn around, hes still 500 delegates up because and every night and then you add the super delegates, which they do all time, jeb would still be getting money. His people would say, just hang in there. It just creates a dynamic that always favors and it was meant to, the Party Establishment. Right. But as gene said, if senator sanders were winning in pledged delegates, the super delegates would listen. And also, you know, lets keep in mind that the problem that Bernie Sanders has is not that super delegates are all with Hillary Clinton. Its that he went through southeastern states, where the bedrock of the Democratic Party are africanamericans, who did not go for him. And so, powered former secretary clinton to huge victories that allowed her to rack up big portions of pledged delegates. So you blame the super delegate system all you want. The fact that he doesnt have a lead in pledged delegates is the problem. I agree. So as we pull out of the weeds here, ted cruz continued to clean up in delegate contests this weekend. Did you see this this weekend . Yeah. A good thing Paul Manafort came on. Seriously this guys a fixer. Hes an insider, man. Hes claiming to fix the wrong thing, in my opinion. Hes a fixer. No, no, no. I dont know whats going on here, but my gut is hes actually going for the hes actually very good, though. If you look at Paul Manafort, he came in to do the delegates, but he decided he was going to do Everything Else and take over the campaign youre not supposed to be talking about him. Youre supposed to be talking about the candidate. Its not about him. Hes going to the rnc and going, listen, i know that you think that donald trump is like what you see on tv, but im
telling you, he does what every washington consultant does, pats, you know, condescendingly pats the candidate on the head and says, listen, now that im in charge here. Dont worry, everythings ive heard this a million times. Consultants come in and he leaks the story, it gets out there that hes the savior, he leaks the rnc meeting and hes the almighty powerful one. And while hes doing all of this stuff exactly and this is what they all do. Every washington consultant, they were born its in their dna. Im going to go in, first thing im going to do is im going to fight an internal war and take over. They may be good at what they do, but their ego cant help themselves. They must let the world know. Then hes talking to reporters and leaking stuff. The one thing hes supposed to do, he doesnt do he failed miserably. His campaign installed supporters through local election events in maine, minnesota, South Carolina, and
utah. Hold on, halperin, well let you refute this. Spin. As joe alluded to, this raises some new questions about the man who was brought on to specifically help with these delegate battles. Thats his job, right . Right . Thats what he does. Hes good at it. Were bringing him on. Paul manafort who down played this. The only vote that matters is the vote thats cast when the roll call is called. On saturday, ted cruz won zero. Not 36, not 6, zero delegates. What was done on saturday was simply confirming the votes of primaries. Most of the conventions that happened yesterday were set in stages a month or two ago. And before, frankly, i was involved. He got absolutely pounded. Absolutely pounded. This is what hes supposed to do. Mark halperin, you going to spin for the establishment. Go ahead. What establishment . For the insurgents in the Trump Campaign. He comes from washington to clean trump up, and hes leaking
that hes the grownup, and that trump has been a clown, and that hes going to make trump a grownup. Well, on the delegate issue, its what he just said is true. Its too little for him to fix some of the things that have already happened. That were already set in motion in terms of the delegate Selection Process in some of these states. If trump gets to 1,400 delegates, which is what he and the campaign are telling people, none of this will matter. What matters is, changing trumps image in order to become a strong general election candidate. What he said to the rnc, i dont think trump disagrees with. Oh, no, trump does disagree with it, because he started saying he mocked it publicly, but they have an extraordinarily effective Good Cop Bad Cop routine going. Really . I dont think its very effective. I think its as transparent as it gets. I can tell you, i have not spoken with trump since these developments. I can tell you most assuredly that donald trump is not pleased. Not pleased that he said it, but in terms of what the
strategy yeah, not pleased at all. But the strategy, theyre in sync on the strategy, just not the fact that it came out. That hes going around being condescending to his candidate, like all consultants do . And elbowing out people. And leaking it. What did he leak . Oh, please still ahead on morning joe what happened at the rnc. He didnt put that in the strategy. Youve seen it a million times. Exactly. It was someone else. Youre right, youre right. You guys are right. Still ahead, how Hillary Clinton became a hawk. But i will say this, their that campaign has been almost completely leakproof. Its fun to watch. For nine months. Suddenly, were starting to hear whispers and leaks coming out of that campaign, making it to the news. Because there was no campaign five months ago. And now there are. So now there are people that come in and are leakers. Exactly. And also people there are two camps in the campaign now,
and there are leaks between them and against each other. Which is also typical in campaigns. Its nice to see this campaign becoming a lot more like a normal campaign. And leaking so you can have stories. But also winning a majority of the delegates. Wait, they have okay, so the New York Times magazine has