>> i know she's a -- here it comes back. they say she's a chooser ♪♪ no, it's one of the few times you can eat off your shoe. >> it's one of the few times. so there are others. >> oh what a messy end. one more. can you believe it? >> end of an era. >> end of an era. yeah. i wonder who tail have on tonight. that was his very first guest bill murray when he was at nbc how many years ago? i don't want to think about it. >> 1982 '83, bill murray popped out of a cake last night. fantastic show. >> very, very cute. i looking forward to tonight. i kind of don't at the same time. so we'll see. and we'll see who the guests are, joe. >> yeah, i'm excited about it. >> i know you are. >> are you excited, park? >> i will be up watching. >> all right. >> mark loved the, we were talking yesterday, he loved madmen. >> i love david lettermen. >> and america. >> i love america. >> i love news can i do it? >> well i guess. go ahead. >> okay. the federal court ruled the state department must move faster in releasing hillary clinton's e-mails from her private server during her time as secretary of state. after the department's of state asked for a january 2016 deadline, a u.s. appeals court reminded officials of their duty to respond to requests in the shortest amount of time t. state department has a week to prepare a time table to begin rolling out the e-mails. yesterday in iowa hillary clinton also called on the state department. i know hillary clinton called on the state department to move faster on this. >> i got something in my throat. >> i have said repeatedly i want those e-mails out. nobody has a bigger interest if getting them released than i do. i respect the state department. they have their process that they do for everybody, not just for me. but anything that they might do to expedite that process, i heartily support. you know i want the american people to learn as much as we can about the work that i did with our diplomats and our development experts. >> will you demand it? >> well they're not mine. they belong to the state department. so the state department has to go through its process, as much as they can expedite that process, that's what i'm asking them to do. please move as quickly as they possibly can to get them out. >> okay. so, we got this clear. >> no. >> no, no we do. >> no we don't. >> >> listen stop knocking hisry, she is clearly saying her position has always been that she has wanted to the state department to move as quickly as possible. >> don't make me do this. >> to expedite getting the e-mails out. >> you do it. >> listen we live in a country okay where at some point it's just like the end of "mad men," you have to let go you have to have faith once in a while. are you so cynical. i don't know if it's growing up a brezinski or what she clearly said here she did, you have got to take her at her word. >> no. >> that she wants the state department and has always wanted the state department to let the people see the wonderful work that they do at the state department. what's her next story? >> mica, what is wrong with you? >> because she wants the state department to move quickly to see the 55 ones se released, not the ones she scrubbed. >> there is nothing you can cite. >> hillary clinton's state department was not committed to every incident of disclosure. >> not one. i challenge you to find one story that shows that this clinton state department didn't move as quickly as possible to follow not only to the letter. not just the letter but also the spirit of the law for the freedom of information act so people could get what hillary said they needed. >> in three, two, one. >> "wall street journal" reports that top clinton staffers kept a tight reign on document releases during her tenure at state. it has to do with items requested under the freedom of information act. >> that's what we were talking about. i don't understand. >> the paper cites anonymous sources who say if one instance clinton's chief of staff, cheryl mills. you know cheryl asked to see documents that were requested and related to the keystone pipeline. >> they're mad at her because she's a woman. >> mills reportedly asked that some not be released. according to journal, some documents related to president clinton's speaking engagements also be held back. >> wait. what? i don't understand? >> a spokesman said mills didn't inappropriately interfere with the process. and also said the state department takes foya, freedom of information requests seriously and has a rigorous process if place for handling the thousands of requests that come in. clinton, so what do they do if a request comes in and it's scrubbed? do you get a piece of paper completely redacted? >> get us through this. i was reading an article this morning, an a.p. article that says that this doesn't usually happen. i am sure i am going to hear not only everybody did this but killed billy goats and had the bag tied to their agency and it's not just the clintons that did this that everybody did this, while slaughtering billy goats and the like. why do you always pick on the clintons? just trusting this article this says this is highly unusual. you don't let people that work for you strub what you are going to let out and what you are not going to let out, especially like bill clinton making $550,000 for speeches why is that protected under the foia act and is there anybody in washington, d.c. responsible for this? that is going to step forward and say yes, the american people can actually trust there is a shred of transparency in their government. even if we let rock stars be secretary of state. >> i think the inspector general should look at this career foia experts are the ones that should be making these decisions, in this journal story which is an important story raises three issues that have been around that are not dodgeing issues and not holding the clintons to a different standard. one is secrecy, one is a failier to play by the normal rules that they should play by a third is people around the clintons working hard to do what the clintons want done. >> mike barnacle what itself the purpose of the freedom of information act? is it so politicians can have their henchmen let out what they decide to let out? >> the freedom from information act you can't have political appointee, you should have career bureaucrats. >> cheryl mills and jeremy peters of all people keller mills of all people deciding she goes from fighting to the impeachment wars to fighting the, you know this latest round? i mean who is cheryl mills to decide what the american people can see and cannot see? >> unfortunately, anybody elsewho dealt with trying to get documents out of the entity knows who team that handle these requests make the tsa look like an efficient competent arm of government. it's constant foot dragging to get entitys to reduce these things. >> that said hillary clinton and her behavior in the state department the way she and her officials conduct themselves doesn't exactly appear they are committed to openness. there are a lot of questions here. >> jeremy, can i ask you, is this any different? let's ask a question the clintons will certainly ask, is this different than what happens at any other department? are we focusing on it because hillary clinton is running for president? >> it does seem in this case there was a level of control over her documents that you would come to expect from the clintons, certainly, they've demonstrated that they do not look at the e-mail server. right? that's a perfect example. so i think there is a pattern here. >> you know i think there is a problem. the sound byte she is saying of course, we want them to move quickly, just release all the e-mails, well there aren't any. there is only 55,000. there is a whole bunch that are not ever going to be released. >> they're e-mails that she wanted to be released. >> you can't be transparent when you never can be again because you absolutely destroyed all the information. >> it's oundz u under the foia act. you request from an agency of government specific information. they do indeeds, drag their feet you strongly suspect if you apply for documents from apairs you will get them far more quickly. >> fair enough. >> as for her campaign. it's been 28 days since hillary clinton last had a question from the press core. yesterday, during a sit-down with iowans in cedar falls it was interrupted. >> wait. wait. yes maybe when i have been talking to the people here. how's that? i might. i'll have to ponder it. but i will put it on my list for due consideration. yes, sir. >> after the round table. >> did he get over there? >> you know i think they must have thought at this point i have to it's becoming almost like a mockery. you know she doesn't have to do it. let's see, though she kept a word on her list and took questions, including one of the decision to go to war in iraq. >> look i know that there have been a lot of questions about iraq post-candidates over the last weeks. i've made it very clear that i made a mistake, plain and simple and i have written about it in my book. i talked about it in the past. what we now see is a very different and very dangerous situation. the united states is doing what it can. ultimately, this has to be a struggle that the iraqi government and the iraqi people are determined to win for themselves and we can provide support, but they're going to have to do it. >> jeb bush. answer it that way. >> so mark you recently. >> unless your brother started the war. then it gets considerably more difficult, i guess. my brother hasn't started any wars. >> a democrat or a republican. they have no problems. >> some baggage that said i wouldn't care about a future campaign. >> no thanks. >> you sat down with iowans real iowans. >> real people. >> focus grouped them. what did you find? >> you know focus groups put a voice to polling about what's going on. these are democrats in iowa largely supportive of hillary clinton. i was fascinated to see. >> i thought you were going to say, like most democrats. if that's abc, why they support. listen to some of the voices in terms of what they like better and what they don't. >> tell me your first thoughts about hillary clinton, what you think of her as a person? >> a lot of the fact is made that, oh she's so ambitious. if you know what if you are going to be a politics if you set yourself up to be elected to any office you have to be ambitious. you have to have one big deal. >> she's a bad mamojama. she's a strong confident woman. she knows what she's doing. she's not afraid to step up. she's not afraid to take advice. she's not afraid to say, no, i don't want to do it that way. i'm going to do it this way. she's a better woman than i am. she survived the monica lewinsky scandal among many other things that they have been through over the years. >> and they are qualified to run this country. >> what did she accomplish that you consider secretary of state? >> secretary of state? i really can't name anything off the top of my head. >> you want to give me a minute? >> can you think of something about the secretary of state that impressed you or you think is important? >> amanda everything you point to say this is a good credential? >> like you said everything was going along. >> she's been at a high level for 25 years now. it will be that or it will be scott walker taking away destroying american unions there is just you know she's not perfect. she's been in the eye for a long time in the public's eye and you have some stuff on her, she has great policy she knows how to get stuff done. >> so many things to unwind. first of all, of course nobody nobody, i've seen a lot of men on the street, women on the street, nobody can name anything she did at the state department. one person frustratingly said she did good at benghazi i think that's all they heard. more important for the clinton team i am hearing something from democrats when bill clinton was president, one scandal after another scandal, the more scandals he got mired in and the more he got away with the more they liked him. they said, you know what he may be bad. he may not be a good person but he's our guy and he always beats those republicans and if you beat republican, you got to be a little corrupt. you got to be a little dirty, a little tough. you got to play dirty because they're such dirty low life scum backs. i heard that a lot in '99 and 2000. >> cynical. >> it's extraordinarily cynical. they go over the line sometimes. but there are worse once. they have affection for her policy position. they are glad she has moved to the left. this is not someone they think is going to remake walk. there is no love affair for her the way there was for president obama for instance. but they don't think elizabeth warren can beat her. they don't think any other democrat can hold the white house. >> elizabeth warren may feel good. she doesn't have what hillary clinton has, hillary is tough. they think they beat republicans, you got to be tough. >> i got to tell you, listening to that snippet from that focus group. she's in very good shape. >> she's in great shape. >> if that is reflective of other states she's great, ambitious, strong confident, not afraid to say. a better woman than i am she is not perfect and gets stuff done. >> seriously, you don't want to admit this, it's like barak obama if 2008. don't still me what he hasn't done. we don't care. he makes me feel good. we will vote for him. in this case don't tell me what she's done. she's tough. scott walker yeah maybe he beat the unions in wisconsin. she will roll in. >> she's a big money candidate, that's how you win. you got to be a big money candidate. >> wow cynical and -- >> i was struck by -- >> kind of bleak. there are no oranges what would be great would be a fantastic array of you know colorful candidates each making the other better on the democratic side. >> politics ain't bean backed as they say. it is a tough, tough game and yes the clintons may not play by the rules. they may like throw sharp elbows. they may cheat but democrats would rather have that than candidates that get crushed with billions of dollars that carl rove and the coke brothers and the trilateral. >> put that in quotes. >> i'm saying however democrats look at the boogie plan on the right. >> they don't think she can change gridlock in washington. >> no. >> they think she will be the bull work against scott walker. the republican they worked at most of ul we talked to was marco rubio. >> you forget against scott walker. you see that matchup. again, this is a quick flash. just a gut. she actually matches up against scott pacer. she does not match up well. she doesn't. >> still ahead on "morning joe" former treasureer secretary. plus we will see if john thune is taking the fight ahead. martin amale, right about now. >> it's exciting. >> we will talk to the a.p. reporter who dug up a 13-year-old quote from bill clinton predicting o'malley's rise all the way to the white house. thank you, bill. nice of him. but first here's bill kierans with a check on the forecast. >> we have a great day. the top ten of the spring. the problem is all in the middle of the country. oklahoma and texas all month long in the pictures yesterday of tornado and flash flooding him some of the worst we have seen this month. mineral wells, it doesn't do a ton of damage. we did have a few injuries. and the flooding in norman oklahoma, they've had 15 inches of rain in the month of may t. rain is coming down. there is nowhere else to go. the ground is so super saturated. we filled up the lakes and the reservoirs. now this morocco, the storms have shifted south. we are tracking strong storms and torrential rain towards the dallas area again to the north of dallas and ft. worth. much of the weather staying to your north we will see some storms over you. then as we look towards the future unfortunately, heavy rain is over the forecast. another four to six inches you got to feel bad for the people they are dealing with this historic flooding. no problems at all on the west coast and the northern plains after the cold yesterday, a little warmer today, tomorrow will be more like it. 70 and sunny in chicago for your thursday. you are watching "morning joe" after the humidity yesterday, this is about as good as it gets. 70 and sunny. you are watching "morning joe" we'll be right back. my school reunion. i don't know. who wants to play in idaho? gotta get milwaukee up to speed. we win in flint, we take the lead. we'll close the deal if we just show... when it's go, go to the new choicehotels.com. the site with the right room, rewards and savings up to 20% when you book direct. choicehotels.com (music) boys? (music) stop less, go more. the passat tdi clean diesel with up to 814 hwy miles per tank. hurry in, and you can get 0% apr for 72 months on 2015 passat tdi models plus a total of $1500 in available bonuses. right now, verizon is offering unlimited talk and text. plus 10 gigs of shareable data. yeah, 10 gigantic gigs. for $80 a month. and $15 per line. more data than ever. for more of what you want. on the network that's #1 in speed, call, data, and reliability. so you never have to settle. $80 a month. for 10 gigs. and $15 per line. stop by or visit us online. and save without settling. only on verizon. >> what time is it? >> that is the cutest thing i have ever seen. i never seen something so beautiful. >> look at that. yesterday leaving the house. >> what? what is the deal? >> my wife is fantastic like all women are. she is fantastic. >> good gracious look at that baby. i need that. bring it in here so i can hold it. >> harold ford iii. >> today is my dad's birthday. >> no way! happy birthday. >> good present. >> he's a huge fan of yours. >> which are a big time fan of his. >> bring the baby in. thank you. >> i'll negotiate that. >> he should only handle it in a couple years. >> three hours. right here. >> so what give us the vitals. >> he was born sunday night at 8:17. my wife and i got in the car to go to the hospital about ten after 7:00. she had the maybe e baby about 25 minutes later. she was great. >> that's tight. okay. >> she had contraction, the second it came. he was supposed to come thursday. he wanted to come. >> oh. >> harold thought they'd save money if he waited. >> exactly. >> i tried to wait untilp:30. harold is a good businessman. >> he goes to clinics to charge by the minute and so he saves a lot of money. >> okay. gorgeous. let's get to some politics here t. white house and lawmakers are going back and forth over whether the obowl administration's plan to defeat isis is working. who is to blame for the latest setback if iraq? it comes as the pentagon reveals iraqi forces abandoned u.s.-made equipment including weapons, half a dozen tanks and 100 hum-vees within isis seized control of ramadi. adam schiff says alarm bells should be going off and house speaker john boehner says the time has come for president obama to change directions. >> the president's request for an authorization of use of military force calls for less authority than he has today. i just think given the fight that we're in it's irresponsible. this is why the president frankly should withdraw the authorization of use and military force and start over. for over two years now, i have been calling on the president to develop an over arching strategy to deal with this growing terrorist threat. we don't have one and the fact is the threat is growing faster than what we and our allies can do to stop it. >> he's the speaker of the house. he's blaming the president for something through congress. at some point it has to be the responsibility of the speaker of the house to do his job. i think what we see from the speaker excuse after excuse for why he hasn't done his job. >> would you say overall the strategy has been a success? >> john yeah overall, yes. it doesn't mean there are areas of setback as we saw in ramadi. >> you seem to be saying well you win some you lose some and it goes on and at this stage of the game isn't that a little silly? >> i think it's a little silly is for us to agonize over the fall of kobani and after kurdish security forces with the backing of american coalition fighters retake that village, drive isil forces out. everybody decides that's not a big deal either. are we going to light our hair on fire every time there is a setback in the campaign against isil? or are we going to take seriously our responsibility to evaluate those areas where we code and where steps are necessary to change our strategy where we sustain setbacks. >> i certainly think he is doing his job, very well there. >> that said don't tell americans that we should be happiant losing ramadi and some of the most important cities in iraq. this is a serious situation that just got a lot more serious. >> it's been set byhere that we spent trillions of dollars in this region of the world. i think it's only fair that these questions are asked that americans wonder why did isil or isis fighters seem so determined, seem to loyal, yet we have spent trillions of dollars defending and trying to train soldiers in that region from that region yet they walk away from the artillery, the equipment. >> if we were dead here that i respect, i got great respect for, but any time anybody comes on here and training iraqi troops is a part of the equation on how we win this war, i completely turn off. that's what we have been trying to do since 2003. it's aco las sal failure. it's not going to work. >> it's the center pen of the current strategy. >> it is a horrific strategy. it will never work. >> it's what makes josh did his job well. what makes it frustrating. it's indeed you want to highlight an area we failed that we recovered t. question comes, shouldn't we prevent those failures from happening. that's a fair question to come from the speaker. >> this president ran mike barnacle as a game changer. he thought big. he was going to do big things. he even gave his acceptance speech with faux greek columns behind him. you knew this was the daung of the age of aquarius. but this is actually when it requires big thinking. i'm not talking bringing in a thousand u.s. troops i'm talking to have the guts to chop that country up. the guts to say, turkey are you not working with us anymore. we are going to help kurds determine their fate in kurdistan we're going to tell the saudi, you want to run on your doorstep, keep doing nothing in anbar province and figuring out what we will do with iran and baghdad. we are going to have to go to another formula because doing the same thing over and over again is not working. they're untrainable. >> the biden plan is now more than a decade old. with eherd general hay den the former director of the caa rephrase the biden plan as a solution to what is going on in iraq. the ultimate failure is one that the president of the united states or josh ernst or nobody in official washington can or will speak to because it ctg ourselves into the governmef iraq. the ultimate failure is the shiite government that we helped establish first with malachi now with the current president and the shiite government in iraq inflicts itself from basically religious warfare in anbar province. >> right. >> against sunni, so you've had ramadi fall. you've had fallujah fall. you've had mosul fall. it's on the shiite government in baghdad much more than anything else. >> so your yes now is -- do you want isis taking ramadi or shia militias taking ramadi? they're terrorists on both sides. >> correct. >> that's the problem. so at some point the united states can't -- people got to stop looking to us to take care of all their problems. if the saudis want shiite militias on the border do nothing. if turkey wants kurdistan, then keep doing nothing. we can't sit back and go through this we're going to train the iraqis because does anybody disagree believe that training the iraqi army for another hundred years is going to do a dam thing? >> no the problem is because of isis it's no longer an option to let the government fail. it would be great if speaker boehner and the president would work collaboratively. i think the white house bristles too much if they won't accept criticism from the current policy from capitol hill. >> why need a new policy? the spoils a speech. it's three words. iraq is over. it's no longer a country. iraq is over. >> how much of the new, of the zooid divided countries will be taken over by isis? >> i guarantee kurdistan wouldn't. actually, i seiss would be squeezed out because the kurds, with the help of the united states would be kurdistan and they wouldn't get in there. if the saudis wanted to actually start working along with another sunni governments to keep -- to keep them out of anbar province they could do that as well. then you got, basically, you got parts of backed that there is no doubt, there will be greater iranian influence in baghdad and part south and that's the price that we pay for 2003. >> the key, joe, is it's going to require the most skillful level of diplomacy that we have seen in many many years. because the ultimate solution is to let the iranian the militia, take on isil defeat them in about two weeks, which they would, unchained, but -- >> then deal with the iranians. >> defeat them in traditionally shiite areas where their influence has been and threat saudis and our sunni allies take care of anbar province and we help out with the kurds. >> neither the saudis nor the turks could tolerate that solution. >> at some point they're not going to have a choice. >> that's diplomacy. >> we're not there yet. >> we're not there yet. >> it was raised with someone at camp david. this federalism. >> coming up. >> i think they're too worried about riernd i iran and nukes right now. but. that's early choice. you want isis running across the country or do you want it locked down without killing another 5,000 american troops. >> coming up hillary clinton answered reporters' questions. a man who knows a thing or two about the clintons. he joins the table along with the ap's lisa lair who duck up a quote on martin o'malley. tomorrow, we will be at the barnes and noble union square to talk about my new book. "know your value." it's kind of fun. we'll be right back with much more "morning joe." woman: it's been a journey to get where i am. and i didn't get here alone. there were people who listened along the way. people who gave me options. kept me on track. and through it all my retirement never got left behind. so today, i'm prepared for anything we may want tomorrow to be. every someday needs a plan. let's talk about your old 401(k) today. success starts with the right connections. introducing miracle-gro liquafeed universal feeder. turn any hose connection into a clever feeding system for a well-fed garden. miracle-gro. life starts here. 38 past the hour. oh i'm so excited. joining us with the must read opinion page editor-in-chief of a national memo from washington national politics reporter with the associated press lisa lair. good to have you on board this morning. we will get to the piece you wrote, ron fornier writes this i don't believe hillary clinton when she says i want those e-mails out. nobody has a bigger interest than those being released than i do. i don't believe her, i've covered the clintons since the 1980s and know how dedicated that i are to clinton spokesman mike mckur ray called telling the troops slowly t. fact is she would rather delay the document until early 2016 and have the e-mail to overwhelm the media and allow her to declare herself exonerated. that was her strategic choice. clinton advisers confirmed for me until a federal judge ordered the state department on tuesday to release the e-mail in i would dispute that to start ofher. he does believe her. so what. what matters is she's now said very clearly, she wants them out. soar that going to be out. >> hold on. >> yes. >> you know what that mean she wants the ones that she released. >> that she chose. baba ba i gave the state department. she has scrubbed the server and their e-mails will never see and she's taking this and saying i've cleaned it up saying i want them to release the ones i have given them. joe, you can't get around that. >> there are a couple things about that. one is where was the anger when colin powell said he had tossed all of his e-mails? never, no one mentioned that. it never comes up. >> different time. different place. >> well he told hillary clinton to do what he did. that was his advice to her. >> i don't think his wife was out selling speeches negotiating -- >> hey hey, joe, please you bring in colon powell different time different place, different president. >> different rules for how he's treated at this point. >> actually different rules under the federal law between regulations when it comes to hillary suddenly it doesn't matter the rates were passed if 2009 by the obama white house. >> in any case her e-mails are preserved on the serve. for instance to the "new york times" about. >> is this a smoke screen? >> what about the e-mails she chose to destroy, we never see. >> do you get to see every e-mail that every public official writes? >> joe, some of the e-mails by the clinton's own admission were not on the state department's server because they were sent to other servers. >> which e-mails? >> she says some of her personal e-mails they said were not preserved on the state department system because they were not sent -- >> presumably, those are among the 55,000 plus turned over. >> they were not subject for months. >> every secretary of state was asked to turn over e-mails, including colin powell and condoleeza rice. >> it's a factual matter some official business e-mails were not available for requests because they weren't on the state department's list. >> we will never see them. >> some of them were. >> if they admit that. i don't doubt it's true. >> come on come on. stop this game. >> it was very interesting when you gave the first of all, joe, i have to say. >> stop this game. >> i have the church hymn quote for you. >> oh great. >> what he said about the hon. they're either hat your feet or at your throat. >> you're comparing me to nazis now. that's great. you just compared, you just used the word -- they compared many tow a nazi because you don't like the facts that you have nothing on this. >> you just compared me. >> no, no there are times when you have been friendly to the clintons. >> right. >> when i believe you broadcast from cgi at least one time. >> a couple times. >> i don't think -- that doesn't make mae nazi joe. >> no no church hill was saying sometimes you like them when it's convenient for you. what are you talking about? i am as transparent as anybody. one week if the clintons aren't telling the truth about their server, i'll talk about that. the next if jeb bush bungles an answer five day there is a wrote, i give jeb bush heck for five days in a row. if ted cruz is destroying the republican party's momentum no no, let me finish. you compared me to a nazi. >> no i didn't. >> yes you did. you brought up a churchill quote when he was talking about the nazis. >> this was after world war i. >> the hons, yes. whatever joe. so anyway. >> that's why i picked that quote. they're not nazis. >> nazis were after world war i. you know, what we do we cover a lot of people we had tez cruz after i blistered his approach for three months. you know what we're open minded. if jeb bush tomorrow screws up we'll go after jeb bush. >> all of a sudden the attitudes change. all of a sudden we are talking about how corrupt they were in the '90s. >> we speak the truth every single day. >> i try i to answer every single question. >> you are fought. you are attacking me personally when everybody watches this show knows i have a complicated relationship with the clintons as do the obama, as do a lot of people. i have been very straight forward. in fact, i talked to quite a few people close to the clintons yesterday. i said to them. i was on the phone i said listen this will be a long haul. the one thing i want you to do is i want you to have my number my e-mail address. if i ever say anything on the air. let me finish my sentence. please, don't play junkyard dog on me okay. i said if i ever go over the line you will disagree with me. if i get the facts wrong, let me know in real time. ly look at the e-mail. i'll correct it. so you can come on here because you don't like the facts and attack me and compare me to a nazi. the fact is we give it to republicans as much as we give it to democrats. that's why everybody from chuck schumer to jeb bush to the clinton campaign team to the obama white house to the "new york times," you can come on here and call us nazis or do whatever. >> nazi joe. >> you are calling me a hon. >> if you feel i called you a nazi that was far from my intention. i was making a joke about a churchill quote. it has to do many people in the media found them to be close to the clintons within they want to. you are interrupting mem. when they wanted to do stuff from cgi or wanted interviews, all the rest of it. people on this new yorker wanted to travel with clinton. they did that. >> joe. >> the media have given money. >> this makes no sense and it's much. >> why would i cut off a relationship when she is on the way to beening the next president of the united states wouldn't it be easier to weasel up to her and try to get interviews and do what a lot of people in the washington press core do and cozy up? we don't cozy up here. everybody cozys up here. you can come on this set. it doesn't matter if you are a republican or a democrat. if you are doing talking points you get it beaten out of you. now would be the time i would want to cozy up to hillary clinton. she is probably going to be the next president of the united states. we don't care. we went to cgi. you are warming up. you are watching the show. is that not the case? >> i agree in general, you are totally fair minded. when you say something like well, he's corrupt. she's corrupt. you refer to old scandals. i'll tell you, there was no substance to any of that stuff that happened in the '90s, beyond monica wluns ski, white water, that's all nonsense. >> please you know how i got past how i felt about the clintons. you put things like that behind me. i put the90s behind me. >> why did you bring it up? >> i thought that's what you were before in there the decade is over. it's time to move beyond. >> i'm talking about cheryl mills story and people want to be transparent when she scrubbed the server. i am sorry, when you really talk about those facts, you don't have anything because the server has been scrubbed. there are e-mails you will never having a tes to. >> the question is then the question is how would you distinguish between the ones she has to turn over to the state department and the ones that are personal. >> something she should have thought about and quite frankly, joe, something you know she did think about that's why we're in this. >> colon powell sucked to her to do what he did. >> that's what happened. because the obama administration put in regulations that require -- the white house thinks it's wrong. anyway they're done with their opinion. it's their administration. their regulation we probably should pass regulations. joe. we are being yelled at by alex i got tore transparent. george wasn't. i have to be transparent. conservatives, i'm a friend of -- he's a friend of mine. >> i feel terrible. >> you did compare me to a nazi? 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[ male announcer ] geico. 15 minutes could save you 15% or more. the network that monitors her health. the secure cloud services that store her genetic data the servers and software on a mission to find the perfect match. and the mom who gets to hear her daughter's heart beat once again. we're helping organizations transform the way they work so they can transform the lives of the people they serve. lisa lair writes in the associated press nurtured by clinton network, o'malley now becomes 2016 rival. more than a decade ago, bill clinton found a star in the making. i won't be surprised if you go all the way he wrote to baltimore's mayor, martin o'malley. in the years that followed bill and hillary clinton showed up time and again as they gained stature as governor of married. now o'malley is days away walking down the path clinton laid out for him more than a decade ago as he prepares to announce his presidenttial campaign in baltimore moy 30th. >> that means transforming him from hillary clinton's loyal supporters to chief adversary. lisa awkward, but awkward that bill said that. but i wonder if o'malley is being underestimated? >> that's a good question. i mean i think it's going to be a tough climb for him. certainly polk does indicate a lot of room in the democratic party for a challenger. there is not a lot of money out there that's available. she's locked up a lot of the big donors. so it will be tough for him. what's fascinating about this story is certainly a lot of people support hillary clinton last time around. he's someone who has been with the clintons whose rise was facilitated for many many years. so this was a stark turn around for him on the clinton family. he showed up at cgi, flew in just to make a speech in denver as recently as last year. so it's pretty interesting to see him now trying to become her chief rival. >> well, lisa stay with us. we'll have it for the top of the hour if you can. we'll be right back with much more "morning joe." . what do you think of when you think of the united states postal service? exactly. that's what pushes us to deliver smarter simpler faster sleeker earlier fresher harder farther quicker and yeah even on sundays. what's next? we'll show you. why do we do it? why do we spend every waking moment, thinking about people? why are we so committed to keeping you connected? why combine performance with a conscience? why innovate for a future without accidents? why do any of it? why do all of it? because if it matters to you it's everything to us. the xc60 crossover. from volvo. lease the well equiped volvo xc60 today. visit your local volvo showroom for details. my school reunion. i don't know. who wants to play in idaho? gotta get milwaukee up to speed. we win in flint, we take the lead. we'll close the deal if we just show... when it's go, go to the new choicehotels.com. the site with the right room, rewards and savings up to 20% when you book direct. choicehotels.com coming up at the top of the hour. he worked for one president bush how does he do another, andy card joins the conversation along with oh, no. >> howard dean. >> howard dean. ? hey, howard. plus 10 gigs of shareable data. yeah, 10 gigantic gigs. for $80 a month. and $15 per line. more data than ever. for more of what you want. on the network that's #1 in speed, call, data, and reliability. so you never have to settle. $80 a month. for 10 gigs. and $15 per line. stop by or visit us online. and save without settling. only on verizon. shopping online... ...is as easy as it gets. wouldn't it be great if hiring plumbers carpenters and even piano tuners... were just as simple? thanks to angie's list now it is. start shopping online... ...from a list of top rated providers. visit angieslist.com today. ♪ sfx: engine sounds introducing the new can-am spyder f3. with a cruising riding position and the most advanced vehicle stability system in the industry... ...you'll ride with a feeling of complete freedom and confidence. visit your can-am spyder dealer and test drive one today. the new spyder f3. riding has evolved. ♪ roundup ♪ ♪ i'm a loving husband and a real good dad ♪ ♪ but weeds just make me rattlesnake mad ♪ ♪ well roundup has a sharp-shootin' wand ♪ ♪ i'm sendin' them weeds to the great beyond ♪ ♪ roundup ♪ yeha! 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[ whip cracks ] with a one-touch wand. after brushing listerine® total care strengthens teeth, helps prevent cavities and restores tooth enamel. it's an easy way to give listerine® total care to the total family. listerine® total care. one bottle, six benefits. power to your mouth™. well, that escalated quickly. >> well, it did. i think that -- >> talking about joe conson last hour. >> lisa look back to lisa i just think there is a disconnect. if you are how do i describe joe conniceon? and hillary clinton supporter? >> he has been a loyal follower of the clintons through all the clinton years. >> i think he assumes we should believe what we are told told. that's kind of not our job. >> you know what's interesting, he made it sound like we wanted to hang out with bill and hillary clinton and i'm serious. you do things when it's in your favor we went over to cgi a couple times, it's great. >> it's five blocks from here. >> i was of course complaining every step of the way. you sit down. he's president. you want to listen to the good things he is doing across the globe. i don't understand, as you said you want to cover him. you don't want to golf with him. you don't want to hajj out with him. and this whole thing about oh well when it's your when it's convenient to you to be nice to them. well, i'm into is to a lot of people that i disagree we have hemtly. >> i would suggest it's very inconvenient to be -- >> i actually was a part of running newt gingrich literally out of town. out of congress and you know what, when we see newt and ka lisa, we sit there, we talk. we have a wonderful time. it's politics. you know i don't want to hoang out with the clintons. if i got free time i want to hang out with the kids. >> i like joe. he comes in here and tries to spin and talk about colin powell and people that want to hang out with the clintons. then when i asked him about a very basic fact of this she withheld some e-mails from the state department records that were not the subject, he said i don't really know about that. for him to come in here and claimic new orleans or have ignorance about basic facts, it's hard to take seriously their attempts to spin the situation if they're not going to engage on what happened. it doesn't mean you have to hate the clintons or they're corrupt. she did something wrong. >> hark halperin is still with us. harold and jeremy peters and lisa lair. >> by the way, i was calling people in the clinton camp. i called them. i've liked her, personally. i said this on the air a couple weeks ago. she's very likable. a mid-west methodist. the republicans. oh. but no i like her. i like jeff. >> you do. >> i like scott walker. scott fumbles around. you know i'm sure john maddon liked a lot of people that played on the oakland raiders. but when they screwed up he couldn't go well, that looks like a fumble. but actually what you have there is a guy who is consciously decoupling himself from a pig skin. >> howard dean. >> i love howard. >> howard is with us. he's joining us from walk. former white house chief of staff to president bush and franklin pierce university. andy card. andy card. there you go. >> we have a lot to talk about. guys, can you coup up right now? we got the federal court that ruled the state department has to move fast in releasing hillary clinton's e-mails from a private server and we got the news from cheryl mills, dragging her feet on four year requests. i think it's fascinating howard maybe you can explain this to us is mark halperin did some focus groups and these were -- iowa democrats. we would play some of them for you. there were two main themes that came out of them one nobody could name anything she did as secretary of state and, two, it just didn't matter because they want a strong leader. they want somebody that can win and they think hillary is that person. take a look howard then i'd love to get your input on it. >> tell me your first thoughts of hillary clinton. what you think of her as a person? >> a lot of the fact is made that she is so ambitious. well. you know what, if you are going to be a politician if you are going to set yourself up to be elected to any office you have to be ambitious. you have to have one big ego. >> she's a bad mamajama. she's a skrong confident woman. she know what is she is doing. she's in the afraid to step up. she's not afraid to take advice. she's not afraid to say, no i don't want to do it that way. i'm going to do it this way. >> she's a better woman than i am. she survived the monica lewinsky scandal, among many other things they have been through over the years. >> she is qualified to run this country. i think she's probably do a pretty good job. >> what did she accomplish you consider significant as secretary of state? >> secretary of state? i really can't name anything off the top of my head. >> you want to give me a minute? >> give me a few minute. >> can you think of something she accomplished as secretary of state that impressed you or you think is important? >> no. >> ayman dark, everything you point to say this is a good credential. >> i'd say follow along. >> she's been at a high level in numerous offices for about 25 years now. i mean it's either going to be that or scott walker you know by taking away destroying america's unions and there is just, you know she's not perfect. but she's been in the eye for a long time in the public's eye and you are going to have some stuff on her. but she has great policies, she knows how to get stuff done. >> so hour the take away. >> fascinating. >> she's not perfect. >> absolutely fascinating. >> everybody goes oh who do you want to have the fear with? these people don't necessarily like her. nobody said she's nice. she's tough. it seems in i, what at least, these iowa democrats and a lot of other democrats i know like the fact that she's tough and a lot of other facts be dammed. they think she can win. >> well, there is a couple different things out of this. first of all, it's not unusual for somebody to not have a recollection of what she did or didn't do as secretary of state. when i ran against somebody one time who is a smart politician who has named three things that governor dean has done and people couldn't. they don't. >> that doesn't come to the top of your head. so i don't make much of. that but it is a fascinating phenomenon. here's the thing that's most interesting when democracy for america decided to draft elizabeth warren they did a lot of internal polls. they have over a million members. it was internet polls. elizabeth was 50% of that bfa a leftist progressive group and bernie and hillary were tied at around 25. but the most fascinating thing about it is of all the people who were for elizabeth about 80% said they'd be perfectly happy to support hillary clinton. there is some sort of a unity in the democratic party. i think it has to do with respect for hillary and the spectre of the right, which has scared the living [ bleep ] out of the party. they will be unified this year. they are. >> so let's do the focus group question here. mike barnacle what comes to mind as hillary clinton serves as secretary of state? what did she accomplish? >> because of the business we are in benghazi. >> that comes to mind? as a problem? >> a potential problem. you look at that focus group. we mentioned this earlier, everything we said about here. she's in great shape. >> here's my bigger point. how about john kerry? secretary of state? >> he's tried extreme -- >> obviously the middle east talks. obviously putin, et cetera et cetera. >> she was strong and perceived to be much stronger on foreign policy, probably intervention of u.s. forces when our interests were at stake. >> for what? >> i think in fairness to her, around syria, around iraq around afghanistan maybe libya palestinian, she's always had her words reenforced. >> they're trying to create equality for women around the globe, particularly young women. her statements about the way you change third world economies to give women an education to provide them to be bread winners in their homes. >> her work with malaria. >> i think in fairness i think joe's responses were not effective. i think some of the defenders you, howard dean not withstanding the comment he just make if anything she was trying to advance. if there are personal e-mails that people are, she is trying to establish whether they should be released or not. we now have a federal court that will expedite this. switch the conversation back to things people talked about in mark's focus groupch her leadership. >> you were shaking your head. >> she's not afraid of what will come out. she controlled exactly what they have. don't put me in this position. >> you made -- i don't know what your basis for. >> harold. she's clean, she scrubbed the server. we will never know what was in there and what wasn't. so don't say she will be exonerated. she has exonerated herself. >> if i were the victim that is your opinion. >> what do you mean that's my opinion? she scrubbed the server. that's not my opinion. >> that is a fact. >> there is something nefarious there. is it not an assumption you are making. >> harold, you are a lawyer. if you were before a judge and you burned files, you could say, judge, come on why do you think there is something nefarious here just because aburned the files? >> i do admit it's a little inflammatory. >> what him calling me a nazi? >> i didn't see that part of it. >> that was the best part. he went like this he goes i would like to quote churchill and speaking of behinds. go ahead. >> here's where we has a good point. don't jump all over me for this. it is true the media wants to see everything. they have this fundamental belief they should see everything. i think hillary decided they probably shouldn't. that's her prerogative. she put it really well. does this mean -- >> it's her prerogative until she's violated the law. that's the issue here howard is that the extent to which she and her people have gone to hide things in violation of state department protocol and the lou. >> that is not her prerogative. >> at no time did she violate the law. >> we got a lot of people to get around to. >> we are on a focus group tonight. because a lot of these democrats, they sound a lot more like we do about what hillary clinton did not just with the e-mails, with the foundation with her accepting big checks with her not talking much to the media they don't think she should do it on the merits. they say politically this is smart. the clintons know how to get away with this stuff. they will help her get elected president. >> andy card. just jump in. jump right in. >> what say you? >> first of all, i don't trust hillary clinton. we need to verify what she says. so far the verification has not been there for what she said. she said she only had one e-mail account. she had a couple. we know she zrub u scrubbed and doesn't allow us to have access to the e-mails she had. that's a fact. but why didn't she be more opened at the beginning? >> it wasn't smart. >> mike barnacle. >> andy when you say you don't trust hillary, is it because of this e-mail or you don't trust her in general? >> it's funny. i used to think i trusted her. now there were so many little things that contribute to a verification of some of these questionable trusts that you have given us. i don't think she is building a high level of trust right now. >> lisa, jump in in terms of a reporter covering the story, because we get a lot of pushback saying that there is some sort of aggressive you know full on fight to sort of prove her wrong, while i still feel there are questions we're never going to get answers to the questions are legitimate. >> well certainly the questions are legitimate. i think the clinton team is eager to turn the page on there and turn the focus back to her leadership skills and the things that harold ford was talking about. i think this means that will be really hard to do. there is going to be a constant. you know the state department want to release all these e-mails in january. the timing would have been right before the iowa caucus. it's not ideal. it would have been one big dump. people would have gotten tired of them. what the judge said is there will be a periodic release of this. >> that means every six weeks, every month, whatever schedule there will be a new set of stories you know about these e-mails, that's exactly what the clinton campaign doesn't want. the story is just not going to go away. >> so howard joe spoke before of almost like i don't know if it was a conspiracy or something that the press just had against the clintons what do you think it is when it's the new york time's it's the washington post and it's the "wall street journal" all raising what we believe to be legitimate questions. the people inside the clinton camp believe are unfair? what do you think the "new york times" agenda is? >> i think people in the media want to know everything and they believe they should know everything and private citizens or not so private citizens running for the president of the united states don't believe that. one of the reasons i think i'm so sympathetic with hillary, leaving aside the fact that i think she'd be a great president is that i have been there. i have seen the newspapers and the "new york times" even and the washington post to him newspapers do things dishonest and overreaching. i am very sympathetic with that as the pin cushion i was, which everybody is when you run for president, you feel like that. let me finish this. my view is few don't like it too bad for you. you are running for president of the united states, if you think these guys are tough. president putin wants alaska back. it's a part of the deal. as a human being, i understand why the clinton's pushed back on this stuff. >> i understand your sympathy sample i from personal experience, would you, i want a yes or no answer? you have been secretary of state, would you have conducted your e-mail policies the way she did and had a private server and pick and choose what you release back to the state department going against the policy that the administration that you worked for put out? would you have done that? >> i might well have done it. except i wouldn't have had a private server. i wasn't married to the president of the united states. >> you wouldn't have had a private server? >> right. she used her husband's server. he had a server. he was the former president of the united states. >> right. governor, would you have made sure whether you used private e-mail or not. would you have made sure they were carefully archived so if someone filed a freedom of information act? >> knowing me i would have hoped a staffer would have done it. i wouldn't have done it. i would have been too busy. when i was governor i used to conduct business on private and public e-mail. there were no rules about it. nor were there rules when hillary clinton was doing it. >> there was. that's the same mistake that joe conniceon made when he brings um up colon powell. talk to the obama administration, they passed regulations to make sure few conducted state department business or commerce department business, that every e-mail that you had done in real time was backed up on the server. >> that's from the podium. >> none will be released faster the judges said. >> some. >> not the ones she destroyed. >> fair. that's bleechlt i think it's right for the president. >> she wiped the server clean. >> i think it's right. we're not do align with howard. i have been maligned by the press at times. you even buy these reputable organizations we speak of. that's not about these questions, these e-mails will be released, if the obama, i'm sorry the clinton team want this all to be dumped it won't be we can come back and if there are things there this is the only point, i think if there is an assumption about something really bad here. >> you know that. >> that's not the story. >> that's a smoke screen. >> you can have this one, not that one. >> i have released them all. >> joe, one of the things that. >> wait. >> one of the things that lisa said all these released at one time. if indeed the team does not want them released can an assumption be made that there might be things released and the press has more to examine? >> you have to follow the facts. if the facts suggest what i think your assumption is. >> i will agree. we got to go to andy carr and ask him if jeb bush went swimming and tilted his hid out. his brain fell out in a second. before i do few want to facts, harold, you can get the facts right now. ask hillary clinton to turn the seber over to an independent third party that can go back and retrieve all e-mails. >> do you want the facts? >> true, i said there on your show. >> you did ask this question. i said yes. i would have done that. we're now. >> you can call right now. >> i don't have that kind of influence. >> you can call right now and say i personally believe hillary clinton should release her server to an independent third party to get all the e-mails that were destroyed off that server then we can have this discussion. >> your question back then should she -- >> i'm saying right now. >> if there are e-mails destroyed related to the state department business we won't know. >> so she should try to. >> that's in the beginning. should we turn it over and let an independent arbiter know what is great and personal? >> jeb bush asked the question it took him five times to answer it. knowing what you know now, should we have gone into iraq? what happened is jeff rusty is this a brother thing? those bushes are pretty tight. >> i think that he heard the question that he answered. he didn't hear the real question that was asked. he said if he had been where his brother was at the time his brother was there with the information he brother had he would have done the same thing. i don't think george w. bush would say -- >> it took him four additional days though to clean it up. why? >> it did. it shouldn't have taken him that long. i don't think it would have taken his brother that long to clear it up. he is a confident, i think constructive, smart person who will be a great leader. i think he will be a terrific president. he'll get there. i don't think he handled that response to the response the right way. but that is so minor. when it comes to hillary clinton. she has allowed the perception of bad to be in the case today. >> maybe the question is not minor. what is not minor to a lots of people including me is the fact that he said george w. bush will be his top adviser in the middle east. a lot of us know what happened in the middle east from 2003 to 2009 is actually being less than positive. do you think that george w. bush will beat jeb in the middle east? >> i think every former president should be available to be an ad advisor to every sitting president. no what's what there philosophy or everything else. the job of president is so tough. you need all the help you can get. you should get it from people you may not agree with all the time. that's okay. >> so speaking of help when are the red socks going to get help? >> mike barnacle know the red sox need some help right now t. yankees lost a tough one to the na ts last night. i was glaed to see the yankees lose. >> very good andy carr. jeremy, thank you. lisa thank you. howard dean as always. >> oh thank you howard. >> we love having you drop by. we may not always agree. you always do it. >> in style. >> in good humor, style. >> and joy, even when we fight like [ bleep ]. still ahead on "morning joe," this is steer you will love. >> l.a. city council overwhelmingly approved a big hike in the minimum wage. but there are plenty of businesses that don't share in the excitement about this. the mayor eric garcetti is here to discuss the implications. plus the story of a plot of a "law and order" episode. the latest investigation into a murder mystery that is gripping washington, d.c. you are watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. kid: hey dad, who was that man? 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>> there are plenty of issues you have to look at. as there been rule breaking? yes. have cultures been completely transformed? >> no. has sufficient criminal responsibility for criminal acts been apportioned? probably not. on the other hand institutions have much larger capital buffers than they did before. from the point of main street the risk 068 some sort of meltdown that takes main street down as well like we saw in 2008. i think most experts would say those risks have been substantially reduced. but is there too much bucket shop activity? yes are people doing irresponsible things? yes, i wrote a column this week about debt reduction for ukraine. here they are, the bullwork of a fight against russian aggression and there are a set of wall street institutions demanding they pay every penny of the debt back at a home when taxpayers around the world are pouring a ton of money into ukraine. that's irresponsible behavior. we should be standing up to it. making sure those debt holders don't get paid back in full. there is a proposal the administration has made to stop basically conflicts of interest on the part of people who are recommending retirement accounts and industry is fighting that proposal very hard even though it's obviously in consumers' interest. so, yeah i think in a world where there are five times, five lobbyists employed by wall street for every member of congress, there certainly is a great more to be done. but, but, it would be a mistake not a recognize some important things that happen that make the system safer. >> you wrote that a properly negotiated agreement is one of that to protect the middle class by luring our goods to keep foreign markets based on where we are among democrats, has had minstration met that burden and does this agreement more importantly meet that burden? >> we haven't seen the full agreement so you can't take a position until you have seen -- >> there is not a transparency. >> obviously, if we've decided and we all know what we think, there is no point in any other country negotiating with us because they can't make it more acceptable to us by negotiating with us but my guess is when the agreement is completed a reasonable judgment will be much more is happening that's reducing trade barriers in other countries than is happening that's getting rid of any protection for american workers. i think if you add export interests and we have to state free trade and so forth, the reason we're confident is that an on balance company interest is in our interest. it's our geopolitical interest given the magnitude of the commitment we've made as a sign for asia. >> let me bring in megan here on income vol estimate. what itself the report say? how does it play into all of this? >> you know it's an interesting report from j.p. morgan launching a think tank this week. they will essentially use their own customer data from hundreds of millions of transactions to really try and measure how their individual blth holders are grappling with fluctuations in income and their spending on month to month. why it's so interesting is being able to bring this sort of big data analytics to data in terms of how people actually spend their money month to month and how they grapple with huge swings in their incomes from month to month turned up surprising conclusions, in this report is one of the big things that's come up there has been a lot of work on how low income households deal with their hits to income from month to month, what this report shows even those relatively wealthy earn over $100,000 per year that i are grappling with significant financial shocks to their income from month to month. so if j.p. morgan can use this data in this institute to sort of help policy-makers shape decisions on how they can help people grapple with these fluctuations in volatility and their income. it's going to be i think a worthwhile contribution to this debate. what larry said about wall street being tamed is while i agree, in no question this system is safer as a whole in terms of banks being required to hold more capital, less risky behavior out there. i would definitely fought characterize some of the stuff we seen as bucket shop activity. just today, we will see a wave of billion dar settlements against some of the biggest banks in the world of manipulating the foreign exchange market. you know this comes on top of manipulating benchmark interest rates and a wave of other ricked markets and almost every market that's out there. so in in way is this confined to small players or bucket shop activity. >> is that fair wlarry? >> it is fair we are seeing a whole waive of substantial prosecutions and we should. but there is a lot of wrong-doing that needs to be addressed. but we got to keep a balance on this. not every prosecutionings is right. not every firm is incident and we've got to work our way through. i do think that the concern that we need to make sure that individuals held accountable when individuals do wrong. not just large corporations executives who do wrong should be held accountable. i think that's right. >> i know you can't answer this did you try? big banks, wall street they're all on the income rising gravy train. why is the growth train fought taking along the majority of americans? >> because we're not engaging in the kind of spending that would support the mo jaert of america? we should surely raise the minimum wage. it's crazy that infrastructure investment is at a record low when capital costs are at a record low as well. it's crazy we're not doing more to promote private investment. it's crazy the middle class families can't get house, can't get mortgages to buy back houses. the pendulum did swing too far five years ago. it's now swung way too far in the other direction against home affordability. >> megan murphy great to have you on. come back as well. we will look for your piece. up next the cannes film festival. it has nothing to do with what's on the screen. we'll exblaine that next. 3w4r50i7b8gs that next. you do all this research on the perfect car. gas mileage , horse power... torque ratios. three spreadsheets later you finally bring home the one. then smash it into a tree. your insurance company's all too happy to raise your rates. maybe you should've done a little more research on them. for drivers with accident forgiveness liberty mutual won't raise your rates due to your first accident. see car insurance in a whole new light. liberty mutual insurance. there's some facts about seaworld we'd like you to know. we don't collect killer whales from the wild. and haven't for 35 years. with the hightest standard of animal care in the world, our whales are healthy. they're thriving. i wouldn't work here if they weren't. and government research shows they live just as long as whales in the wild. caring for these whales, we have a great responsibility to get that right. and we take it very seriously. because we love them. and we know you love them too. ortho home defense gives you year long control of all these household bugs - roaches, ants, and spiders. spectracide gives you year long control... of just roaches. their label says so. got more than roaches moving in? 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>> yes. that was the objection. when those events occurred. you'd think well, this is never going to end. there is going to bed a infinitum the troubles. gerry adams has a foot in both camps. he has a foot in the republican camp. some people claim that he was a member of the ira. gerry continually denies it. i have other suspicions. he now is a superb politician and has been able to as you see yesterday shaking hands with prince charles. he has bridged a gap that it was unbridgeable you know for a lot of younger people who remember the 1970s remember the bombings that what happened it seems every few christmas times at har harrods in london in the ''80s. anybody that says peace can't come to a land needs to look at what's happened in northern ireland. people are angry on both sides. >> the anger is still there. but it's far different today. belfast is a different city than it was 15 to 20 years ago. >> okay. ger. >> you will have to take down that picture of gerry adams in your house. >> we'll be right back with much more "morning joe." does your makeup remover take it all off? 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>> look i have to tell you, i love your dad's work i love your work. what was the most revealing thing about perry and how he was able to overcome so much. you think about opposite s.e.c. at that time, the deep seeded animosity, valedictorian. how did he do it and what did you learn most about his character and person doing the study? >> the title is "strong inside" referring to his basketball ability as a strong inside player but more than that his strong inner character. just this incredible man who grew up at the height of the civil rights movement. he entered kindergarten in 1954 he was around emmett till's age when emmett till was murdered. he was a 12-year-old kid watching sit-ins in downtown national. enters high school a week after martin luther king's "i have a dream speech" he feels the country is changing at just the right time and he needs to be prepared to take advantage of the opportunity. his mom would tell him to put on the full armor of god. he had been a student of jackie robinson's, knew he could not quit he could not let these people get to him, he had an important mission to complete so he had this mind seth-set of what's the proper response to any situation he was in. that's what carried him through. >> what about props for vanderbilt for offering the scholarship in the first place? and what about what perry endured at the beginning of his career at vanderbilt and throughout his career in the s.e.c. as a basketball player? >> so vanderbilt was a charter member of the southeastern conference (the late 1960s the league is still all white. at kentucky, the president is encouraging adolf ruff to integrate his program. the chancellor at vanderbilt encourages his coach to integrate his team, he says yes, i'll do it. mainly because he wanted to beat kentucky, he was a kentucky kid himself from paducah. >> that will do it. >> but there were articles written about perry wallace as a high school kid that portray him as the all american kid in every way. there's a picture of him with four milk cartons with his girlfriend stroking his cheek with a dandelion, sitting in the front row wearing a sport coat in class. yet the day after that story runs petitions arrive from fans saying if he signs perry wallace they're never coming to another game again. coach told me he threw those petitions in the trash because he knew he had the chancellor's backing. >> that will do it. >> the number one vanderbilt guy is willie geist. >> i saw him as i was walking down here on the "today" show set. i thought he might be passed out in the gutter somewhere. vanderbilt women's tennis team won the national championship. >> this is more than a sports book obviously. much, much more than a sports book. >> that's why i tried to do from the beginning. it's not about statistics or scores of basketball games. it's putting perry wallace's story into the context of the place and times in which he operated, the deep south of the lay '60s. that's what i think makes it a more interesting book. >> the book is "strong inside." andrew andrew andrew marahness. >> coming up hillary clinton talks to the press after weeks of silence. but there's a new controversy over the releasing of records when she was leading the state department. plus, what is her top accomplishment as secretary of state? iowa democrats answer that question with some surprising responses. and both democrats and republicans are racing questions about president obama's plans to defeat isis. why the white house says the overall strategy is a success despite big losses. we'll be right back. we were below the 88th southern parallel. we had traveled for over 850 miles. my men driven nearly mad from starvation and frostbite. today we make history. >>bienvenidos! welcome to the south pole! if you're dora the explorer, you explore. it's what you do. >>what took you so long? if you want to save fifteen percent or more on car insurance you switch to geico. it's what you do. >>you did it, yay! hey america, still not sure whether to stay or go to your people? ♪ well this summer, stay with choice hotels twice and get a $50 gift card you can use for just about anything. go you always have a choice. book now at choicehotels.com ideas come into this world ugly and messy. they are the natural born enemy of the way things are. yes, ideas are scary and messy and fragile. but under the proper care, they become something beautiful. why do we do it? 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>> well they're not mine. they belong to the state department. the state department has to go through its process. but as much as they can expedite that process, that's what i'm asking them to do. please move as quickly as they possibly can to get them out. >> okay. so we've got this clear -- >> no. >> no, we do. >> no we don't. >> listen stop knocking hillary. >> i'm not. >> she's very clearly saying her position has always been that she has wanted the state department to move as quickly as possible -- >> don't make me do this. >> to expedite getting the e-mails out. >> you do it. >> we live in a country okay where at some point it's just like the end of "mad men" you have to let go. you have to have faith once in a while. you're so cynical. i don't know if it's growing up a brzezinski or what but she's clearly said here you have got to take her at her word that she wants the state department and has always wanted the state department to let the people see the wonderful work that they do at the state department. >> don't make me say it. >> what's our next story. >> mika what is wrong with you? >> because she wants the state department to move quickly to see the 55,000 e-mail she is released, not the ones she scrubbed. >> there's nothing you could cite to suggest that hillary clinton's state department was not committed in every instance to disclosure. nothing. >> there's not one. i challenge you to find one story that shows that this clinton state department didn't move as quickly as possible to follow not only the letter, nay, nay, not just the letter but also the spirit of the law for the freedom of information act so people can get what hillary said they needed. >> in three, two, one. the "wall street journal" reports that top clinton staffers kept a tight reign on document releases during her tenure at state. >> what? >> it has to do with items requested under the freedom of information act. >> that's what we were just talking about. >> the paper cites anonymous sources that say in one instance clinton's chief of staff cheryl mills, we know cheryl asked to see documents that were requested and were related to the keystone pipeline. >> they're just attacking her because she's a woman. >> mills reportedly then asked that some not be released. according to the "journal," her staff also asked some documents having to do with president clinton's speaking engagements also be held back. >> wait what? i don't understand. >> a spokesman for hillary clinton told the "journal" that mills didn't inappropriately interfere with the process. >> inappropriately. that's an important word. >> and also said the state department takes foia that's freedom of information requests very seriously and has a rigorous process in place. >> they surely have over the past four years. >> for handing the thousands of requests that come in. so what do they do if a request comes in and it's scrubbed? do you get a piece of paper that's completely redacted? >> so mark halperin, get us through this. there was an a.p. article that just says that this doesn't usually happen. i'm sure i'm going to hear that everybody not only did this but killed billy goats and that they had tied to the back of their agencies and it's not just the clintons that did this that everybody did this while slaughtering billy goats and why do you always pick on the clintons? but i'm just trusting this article that says this is highly unusual, you don't let people that work for you scrub what you're going to let out and not let out. especially bill clinton making $550,000 for speeches. why is that protected under the foia act? and is there anybody in washington, d.c. that is responsible for this that is going to step forward and say, yes, the american people can trust there's a shred of transparency in their government even when we let rock stars be secretary of state? >> i mean look, the inspector general i think should look at this because career foia experts are the ones who should be making these decisions, not political appointees and this "wall street journal" story, which is an important story, raises three issues that have been around that are not gotcha issues and not holding the clintons to a different standard. one is secrecy, one is a failure to play by the normal rules that they really should play by, and the third is people around the clintons working hard to do what the clintons want done in a political way. >> mike barnicle, what's the purpose of the freedom of information act? is it so politicians can have their henchmen decide what to let out and not let out? come on. >> mark halperin just mentioned that you can't have political appointees running it. you should have career bureaucrats running it. >> cheryl mills, jeremy peters of all people. cheryl mills of all people deciding? she goes from fighting the impeachment wars to fighting the the -- you know, this latest sflound i mean, who is cheryl mills to decide what the american people can see and what the american people cannot see? >> unfortunately, anybody who's dealt with trying to get documents out of a government entity knows that the people who handle these requests make the tsa look like an efficient and competent arm of government. it's constant foot-dragging to get government entities to release these things. that said hillary clinton, her behavior in the state department, the way that her -- she and her top officials conducted themselves doesn't exactly appear at this point as if they're committed to openness and transparency. so there are a lot of questions here. >> jeremy, can i ask you? this is this any different than what happens at any other department? are we just focusing on it because hillary clinton's running for president? >> it does seem in this case as if there was a level of control over her documents that you have -- would come to expect from the clintons. i mean certainly they've demonstrated that they do not -- look at the e-mail server right? that's a perfect example. so i think there's a pattern here. >> i think there's a problem that -- you know i think the soundbite where she's saying "of course we want them to move quickly. just release all the e-mails." well, there aren't any. there's only 55,000. there's a whole bunch that are not ever going to be -- >> well, there are the e-mails that she wanted to be released? >> you can't pretend to be transparent when you haven't been and when you never can be again because you absolutely destroyed all the information. >> it's under the foia act you apply to -- you request from an agency of government specific information, they do indeed drag their feet. >> i know. i've been through it. >> i would also point out i strongly suspect if you apply to get documents from the bureau of indian affairs or something like that as opposed to hillary clinton's state department you're going to get them far more quickly from the bureau of indian affairs. >> far enough. as for her campaign it's been 28 days since hillary clinton last answered a question from a hungry political press corps. yesterday during a sit-down with iowans in cedar falls fox news ed henry interrupted. . >> yeah maybe when i finish talking to the people here, how'ses that? >> you'll come over? >> i might. [ laughter ] i'll have to ponder it. but i will put it on my list for due consideration. >> thank you. >> yes, sir. >> after the round table wrapped up -- >> so ed henry got her to go over there, huh? >> well i think -- >> there you go. >> i think they must have thought at this point it's becoming almost like a mockery. and, again, she doesn't have to do it but it might be good for her. let's see, though. she did keep her word kept it on her list as you saw earlier and took questions including one on the decision to go to war in iraq. >> look i know that there have been a lot of questions about iraq posed to candidates over the last weeks, i've made it very clear that i made a mistake, plain and simple. and i have written about it in my book i've talked about it in the past and, you know what we now see is a very different and very dangerous situation. the united states is doing what it can but ultimately this has to be a struggle that the iraqi government and the iraqi people are determined to win for themselves. and we can provide support, but they're going to have to do it. >> memo to jeb bush answer it that way. >> that's how you answer it. >> that's how you answer it jeb, not that hard. of course, your brother started the war and then it gets -- >> no it's not that hard. >> my brother hasn't started any wars so -- >> i have a democrat brother and a republican they have no problem taking the other down. >> there's some baggage i wouldn't carry into a future campaign. you sat down with iowans real iowans. >> real people? you didn't set them up. >> you focus grouped them. what did you find? >> the great thing about focus groups is they put texture and voice to what we think we know from polling about what's going on. that e-z are democrats in iowa like most democrats, largely supportive of hillary clinton. but i was fascinated to see why -- >> i thought you were going to say like most democrats or pot-smoking hippies. >> some probably were but fascinating. listen to the voices explaining what they like and don't. tell me your first thoughts about hillary clinton. what you think of her as a leader and a person. >> a lot of the fact has been made that oh she's so ambitious. well you know what? if you're going to be a politician, if you're going to set yourself up to be elected to any office you have to be ambitious. you have to have one big ego. >> she's a bad mama jama. she's a strong confident woman. she knows what she's doing, she's not afraid to step up. she's not afraid to take advice and she's not afraid to say no i don't want to do it that way, i'm gonna do it this way. >> she's a better woman than i am. [ laughter ] she survived monica lewinsky among many other things that they've been through over the years. >> she's eminently qualified to run this country and i think she'd probably do a pretty good job. >> what did she accomplish that you consider significant as secretary of state? >> secretary of state? i really can't name anything off the top of my head. >> give me a minute. give me two minutes. >> christina, can you think of something she accomplished as secretary of state that impressed you? >> um -- no. >> amanda anything you'd point to to say this is a good credential. >> i honestly can't say i followed along. >> she's been at a high level in numerous offices for about 25 years now. i mean it's either going to be that or it's going to be scott walker taking away -- destroying america's unions. and there's just -- you know she's not perfect but she's been in the eye for a long time in the public's eye, and you're going to have some stuff on her. but she has great policies and she knows how to get stuff done. >> mark halperin this is fascinating. so many things to unwind. first of all, of course nobody nobody, and i've seen a lot of man on the street woman on the street interviews nobody can name anything she did at the state department. one person frustratingly said "benghazi, i think she did well on benghazi." but more importantly here for hillary clinton and the clinton team i'm hearing something i heard from democrats when bill clinton was president mired in one scandal after another scandal after another scandal. the more scandals he got mired in and the more he got away with, the more they liked him because they said you know what? he may be bad, he may not be a good person but he's our guy and he always beats those republicans and if you're going to beat republican you have to be a little corrupt, a little dirty, a little tough, you have to play dirty because they're such dirty low-life scumbags. i heard that a lot in '99 and 2000 from my democratic friends. >> it was extraordinarily cynical. they say the clintons are tough. they go over the line sometimes but they're our horses they can keep the white house for the democrats. they have affection for her policy positions, they're glad she's moved to the left. but this is not something they think is going tory make washington. there's no love affair with her the way there was for president obama for instance but they don't think elizabeth warren can beat her and they don't think any other democrat can hold the white house. >> elizabeth warren may make them feel good stand on their feet but she doesn't have what hillary clinton has which is hillary's tuough and to beat republicans you've got to be tough. >> just listening to that snippet from that focus group, she's in very very good shape. >> she's in great shape. >> if that focus group is reflective of democrats in other states, she's great. ambitious, strong confident, not afraid to say no a better woman than i am one of the participants said. and she's not perfect and gets stuff done. >> that's pretty good. >> and they're tuned out. they don't know what she's done and they don't care. they're just going to vote for her, which is even better. >> what does that sound like? i mean seriously, you don't want to admit this that's like barack obama 2008. don't tell me what he hasn't done, we don't care he makes me feel good we're going to vote for him. in this case it's don't tell me what she's done she's tough. scott walker may have beat the unions in wisconsin. >> she's got to be a big money candidate to win. >> wow, cynical and -- >> i was struck by the realism, skepticism cynicism. >> kind of bleak, there are no options. what would be great would be a fantastic array of colorful smart candidates on the other side each making the other better. >> that said you know what? politics ain't beanbag, as they say. >> there's nobody good enough. >> it's a tough, tough game and, yes, the clintons may not play by the rules. they may throw sharp elbows. they may cheat, but democrats would rather have that than have a candidate that's going to get crushed by you know billions of dollars and karl rove and roger ailes and the koch brothers and the trilateral commission. >> you naught in quotes. >> i'm just saying however democrats look at the boogieman on the right. >> and they don't think she can change gridlock in washington but they think she'll be the bulwark against the republican congress and scott walker. the republican they worried about most of all was marco rubio. coming up on "morning joe," his committee oversees the railroad in congress so why is senator john thune looking to extend the deadline to install critical safety measures on the nation's commuter tracks? he joins us straight ahead. plus actor frankie muniz is pushing hard to help u.s. veterans struggling with post-traumatic stress disorder. he joins us ahead to explain. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. new neutrogena hydro boost water gel. with hyaluronic acid it plumps skin cells with intense hydration and locks it in. for supple, hydrated skin. hydro boost. from neutrogena. right now, verizon is offering unlimited talk and text. plus 10 gigs of shareable data. yeah, 10 gigantic gigs. for $80 a month. and $15 per line. more data than ever. for more of what you want. on the network that's #1 in speed, call, data, and reliability. so you never have to settle. $80 a month. for 10 gigs. and $15 per line. stop by or visit us online. and save without settling. only on verizon. 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(music) stop less, go more. the passat tdi clean diesel with up to 814 hwy miles per tank. hurry in, and you can get 0% apr for 72 months on 2015 passat tdi models plus a total of $1500 in available bonuses. sometimes the present looked bright. sometimes romantic. there were tears in my eyes. and tears in my eyes. and so many little things that we learned were really the biggest things. through it all, we saved and had a retirement plan. and someone who listened and helped us along the way. because we always knew that someday the future would be the present. every someday needs a plan. talk with us about your retirement today. let's get to politics here. the white house and lawmakers going back and forth over whether the obama administration's plan to defeat isis is working and who is to blame for the latest setback in iraq. it comes as the pentagon reveals iraqi forces abandoned u.s.-made equipment including weapons, half a dozen tanks and about 100 humvees when isis seized control of a town. democratic senator adam schiff says alarm bells should be going off over the city's capture and john boehner says the time has come for president obama to change directions. >> the president's request for an authorization of the use of military force calls for less authority than he has today. i just think given the fight that we're in it's irresponsible. this is why the president, frankly, should withdraw the authorization of use of military force and start over. for over two years now, i've been calling on the president to develop an overarching strategy to deal with this growing terrorist threat. we don't have one. and the fact is the threat is growing faster than what we and our allies can do to stop it. >> he's the speaker of the house and he's blaming the president for something not moving through congress. at some point it has to be the responsibility of the speaker of the house to do his job. i think what we see from the speaker are excuse after excuse for why he hasn't done his job. >> would you say overall the strategy has been a success. >> john yeah. overall yes. that doesn't mean there haven't been areas of setback as we saw in ramadi. >> you seem to be saying well, you know, you win some you lose some and it goes on. and at this stage of the game isn't that a little silly? >> what i think is a little silly is for us to spend a whole lot of time agonizing over the fall of kobani and then after kurdish security forces with the backing of american coalition fighters retake that village, drive isil forces out and everybody decides that that's not really a big deal either. are we going to light our hair on fire every time that there is a setback in the campaign against isil or are we going to take very seriously our responsibility to evaluate those areas where we succeed and evaluate where steps are necessary for us to change our strategy where we've sustained setbacks. >> he's doing his job very well there. that said don't tell americans that we should be happy about losing ramadi and some of the most important cities in iraq. this is a serious situation that just got a lot more serious. >> it's been said on this show by everybody, my friend to the right here that we've spent trillions of dollars in this region of the world. and i think it's only fair these questions are asked and americans wonder why is it that isil or isis fighters seem so determined, seem so loyal and yet we have spent trillions of dollars defending and trying to train soldiers in that region from that region yet they walk away from the artillery, the equipment that americans have paid for. >> we have people on here that i have great respect for but any time anybody comes on here and training iraqi troops is a part of the equation on how we win this war i completely turn off because that's what we've been trying to do since 2003. it's a colossal failure. it's not going to work. they won't be trained. >> but it's a centerpiece of the current strategy. >> it's a horrific strategy. it will never work. >> josh did his job well but what makes it frustrating because if indeed you want to highlight an area that failed that we recovered, the question becomes shouldn't that be part of our strategy to prevent those failures from happening? that's a fair question to come from the speaker and the public. >> this president ran, mike barnicle, as a game changer. . he thought big, he was going to do big things. he even gave his acceptance speech with greek columns, faux greek columns behind him. you knew this was the dawning of the age of aquarius. but this is actually when it requires big thinking. and i'm not talking about bringing in 100,000 u.s. troops. i'm talking about having the guts to chop that country up. the guts to say turkey you are not working with us anymore, we're going to help kurds determine their fate in kurdistan, we're going to tell the saudis you want iran on your doorstep, keep doing nothing in anbar province. coming up, the mayor of los angeles, eric garcetti joins us with his city's plan to raise the minimum wage to $15 an hour by 2020. cnbc's michelle caruso cabrera joins us as well. but first, more with kasie hunt and the senate's number three republican senator john thune. we'll be right back. ccess to healthy food. for the first time american kids are slated to live a shorter life span than their parents. it's a problem that we can turn around and change. revolution foods is a company we started to provide access to healthy affordable, kid-inspired chef-crafted food. we looked at what are the aspects of food that will help set up kids for success? making sure foods are made with high quality ingredients and prepared fresh everyday. our collaboration with citi has helped us really accelerate the expansion of our business in terms of how many communities we can serve. working with citi has also helped to fuel our innovation process and the speed at which we can bring new products into the grocery stores. we are employing 1,000 people across 27 urban areas and today, serve over 1 million meals a week. until every kid has built those life-long eating habits, we'll keep working. ok. this role is about energy.... we're looking for a luxury hybrid, with the best city fuel economy rating... the lincoln mkz hybrid... and...who has one starting price for gas or hybrid? mkz hybrid again upstaged them. it's the final days of the lincoln luxury uncovered event. lease mkz or mkz hybrid for $289 a month. plus for a limited time competitive owners and lessees get one-thousand dollars bonus cash. >> for me this is really just about some core issues about a problem with this trade agreement. one big part of it has been the lack of transparency in the whole process that we're being asked to grease the skids to move these trade deals forward without showing what the trade deal is. president bush even put out the scrub text it's called on the trade agreement and had it out there for months before he asked for even partial fast track authority. we just want transparency around this. >> mika, what are you going to do? what are you going to do? elizabeth warren -- >> pining. >> pining. pining for the days of george w. bush. >> now stop. now stop. >> she says george w. bush was far more transparent than barack obama. what say you? >> well i say -- >> "the factor" wants to know. what say you, mika brzezinski? >> i'm so annoyed to that. i said that to somebody and i thought oh god. how fox news of me. >> nothing wrong with that be baby. >> joining us now, senator john thune of saudi arabia andouth dakota and kasie hunt our msnbc political correspondent. >> john thune, i saw a "wall street journal" report talking about how the future of a republican party as a pro-growth party rests on this trade pact and taking to task a lot of republicans who seem to be wanting to get in the way of this. what say you, john thune? is it a real challenge for the republican party? >> it's going to be a challenge to pass it joe, but i don't think -- i think we'll have most republicans voting for it. i think it's a bigger problem in the house. but this is important for our agenda. trade is about jobs. it's about growing the economy. since 2009 we've added 2.1 million export related jobs in the manufacturing sector. those are good-paying jobs. they pay 13% to 18% more. so it's a jobs bill. it's about i think the future of this country economically and i hope republicans embrace the idea of open trade and markets. >> what's with the republican party? what's with the plit in the party, john? >> i think part of it is -- we've got some people in the house and senate who don't want to give this president that authority. we've got some who represent states where trade is still problematic for them politically so it's a combination of thing that overall i think you'll see a good number of democrats who support this and a big number of republicans. >> kasie, how about the fact that elizabeth warren is pining for the good old days of george w. bush. let's not oversell it, it's not personal between the president and elizabeth warren but she knew what she was doing comparing barack obama in a negative light to george w. bush. >> i think it is -- it has gotten personal between them. and to have him stand up there and so prominently call her "elizabeth" on trade. i don't see any way around that. and that's definitely a -- >> she's playing politician. >> mark halperin has a question for you, john thune. >> senator, we were talking about iraq and the fight there. describe the degree of confidence that the central government can stand up an army that can defeat isis. >> it's not very high mark. we've seen this now in anbar province and in other places where we're fighting in iraq. i think what it suggests obviously is that we need a change in the strategy. the administration is saying no but if i were the president i'd huddle with my military commanders and say how can we deploy the people we have there in a better way that can prevent isis from continuing to gain ground? they're on a mission and it doesn't seem like anything will stop that unless the united states takes more of a leadership role. >> i want to ask you but the amtrak derailment and the federal government's response so far and what it should be in the future. just your connections are close and personal here. you are a former state railroad director senator john thune. you're the grandson of two railroad workers, one of whom died in a train accident and you lead the committee that oversees the railroad committee. i've been a little frustrated. i can name three derailments where automatic train control was only installed in the curve where the derailment happened and maybe a few others after people were severely injured more to two cases four and eight people died. and my concern is that the federal government, the fra specifically is only acting after there's blood on the tracks and, by the way, automatic train control as you know costs thousands of dollars and is a quick fix, it's not millions. >> well, it's unfortunate and tragic, mika, that it wasn't done on the northeast corridor. amtrak is known since 2008, they say they'll meet the deadline at the end of the year and they've had the resources given to them to do that. >> john why wasn't it? we've been hearing, of course immediately after there was blood on the tracks people start saying oh, amtrak's underfunded. they have the funds to put this in there. why was this so mismanaged that people died in philadelphia? >> part of it is -- look power train control is not something that you can -- >> that's not what we're talking about, we're talking about automatic train control which is the operation you can put in place in a matter of days actually and it's been around for decades and decades. i'm not talking about ptc. >> well i think they could -- they should have had that done i guess is what i'm telling you. but it's not something that i think -- it's not an app you can download. this isn't something that happens overnight. there are bureaucratic and technical issues associated with this. my understanding is in the case of amtrak there were spectrum issues. you have to have sensors on the track, sensors on the train. you have to have satellite working together and interoperability between trains so it's not something you do overnight. having said that -- >> senator, it is. >> they've known for a long time they can do this and they should have been ahead of the curve and could have prevented this. >> senator. i'm sorry, but on friday the fra said amtrak cannot resume service until automatic train control is put in place they put it in over the weekend, senator. i don't think it's an app you can download but it's not hard. my question is when is the government going to have penalties or have some sort of ramifications that are put in place for not putting proper basic long-time existing safety systems put in place now. why wouldn't you mandate it? why wouldn't there be penalties? why isn't there a stronger reaction here? >> it is mandated, mika it's mandated by the end of this year. the problem is with some of the railroads they won't be able to comply with it. there's danger there's risk involved if you don't do this right. if you don't have interoperability between railroads, if you don't have the technology and those things worked out on this this is not something that can happen overnight. realistically, the administration, the obama administration has said they won't meet this 2015 deadline. democrats up here know that republicans know it. we want to do everything we canning in a reasonable way to get this done in a realistic time frame. obviously in the case of amtrak that's a different circumstance. the northeast corridor is a place where they should have had this done they've known about it for a long time they've said they've been working on it since 2012. when you're talking about the lives of passengers i agree, we have to get this done as quickly as possible and i'm glad they are moving aggressively to do that. we have railroads all across this country that won't be able to comply with that 2015 deadline. we need to put in place a realistic time frame that doesn't create more risk and hazard and safety problems. >> looking forward to hearing what that is. senator john thune, thank you very much. >> thanks, guys. >> kasie, stay with us. still ahead, it will change the way of life for hundreds of thousands of workers in california. los angeles mayor eric garcetti joins us after his city votes to raise its minimum wage to $15, along with cnbc's michelle caruso cabrera. they're after a break. what do you think of when you think of the united states postal service? 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[ whirring ] [ train whistle blows ] she makes trains that are friends with trees. ♪ ♪ my mom works at ge. ♪ ♪ los angeles is now the largest city in the nation to adopt a major minimum wage hike after the city council voted to raise it to $15 an hour. >> wow, that's big news. >> that's amazing. >> i didn't say that. i said it's big news. >> it's great news. isn't it joe? >> it's big news. but my mother would say -- >> more than 25 employees have to meet the $15 an hour level by 2020 while smaller businesses would have an additional year to comply. joining us now the mayor of los angeles, eric garcetti. i think i have a new favorite mayor. along with cnbc chief international correspondent michelle caruso cabrera. michelle is here to say why this is such good news. thank you, michelle, for coming along. was this difficult to get through? what were the arguments? >> it was surprisingly not. we've seen american workers increase productivity by 65%. >> don't you have businesses saying "we're going to have to lay people off." >> we had a coalition of a majority of republicans and democrats for this. it was a bipartisan non-partisan issue. people are working full time businesses are suffering because those folks can't go out to dinner or buy goods on main street. >> they can't live. >> they can't live. they can't be home to help their kids with their home work. so we look at these issues whether it's education, looking at the way people commute, looking at our economic development and too many people 97% in the minimum wage, are over 20. >> michelle was just looking at her watch. >> are you serious? >> i was getting a tweet. >> you were getting a tweet? i tweeted that we were going to be on together. >> tell me the other side of this. >> you highlighted it which is that undoubtedly some people are going to lose their jobs. a small to medium-sized business will have to make the choice this is how much money i have to pay employees. so if i have to pay a certain number -- if i have to pay employees this amount some people will have to lose their jobs. so my question is you know, what's better? more people employed at a lower wage or fewer people employed at a higher wage? and i think the result -- the answer is really morally ambiguous. this is about tradeoffs. you can't -- and everybody understands this right? when things get more expensive, we tend to use less of them or buy less of them. >> mr. mayor, do you agree. >> and when employers find things more expensive -- >> what get mrs. expensive is when people have to take sick days. what gets more expensive is when people are working two or three jobs and we subsidize poverty because people have to have afterschool programs. so when we've seen this we studied this closely, we brought in the best economists, peer reviewed weer are reviewed three different studies and it showed it would net gain jobs. >> kasie, look at the numbers we put up. $15 an hour i'm not a proponent of jumping something up to $15 an hour but if you you don't live in these big cities, you don't know how expensive it is. so that $15 an hour probably is more like $9 $10 in an hour in a place like pensacola, florida. >> mr. mayor, i'm curious. we've seen some big companies raise their minimum wage or say they'll lift the floor. as somebody who deals with this strictly politically, what is their motivation? are they trying to get good press? do they feel political pressure on this issue? >> it's not just about politics it's about human beings. they realize the turnover rate they have for instance in the fast food industry it's 150% a year. that's really expensive for people to have to train workers basically with a help wanted sign all the time. so when they pay more they see better workers, productivity goes up, fewer sick days and less money they have to spend on training so it's not just about the added costs, there's added reductions of costs that happen to these businesses as well. >> there's different dimensions to this. a local story my husband is working on ambulance drivers, ambulance drivers, 19 years old making $11 an hour getting into accidents because they have to work three jobs or take on two shifts because they don't make enough money. ambulance drivers, $11 an hour. think about that. if you ever get hurt being rushed to the hospital -- >> poverty is expensive. that's what we kept saying. poverty is expensive. we have republican business leaders supporting us democrats, obviously. people on the street said "we are struggling to survive." >> the answer to getting better wages for the 19-year-old driving the ambulance p s more education so they can get better jobs. this is about lifting people -- >> that doesn't make for a better ambulance driver just saying. mayor garcetti thank you so much. cnbc's michelle caruso cabrera, thank you as well. much more "morning joe" in just a moment. stay with us. the network that monitors her health. the secure cloud services that store her genetic data the servers and software on a mission to find the perfect match. and the mom who gets to hear her daughter's heart beat once again. we're helping organizations transform the way they work so they can transform the lives of the people they serve. are you so congested... it feels like that brick's on your face? 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[♪] the voice of the wild within. ptsd can be like a wound on your arm that scabs over. then imagine ripping the scab off. it will be smaller but you have of the go in the next day of ripping that scab off and cleaning out the wound. when you do that enough and you face it everyday -- the wound's gone and you have a scar. then you have to learn how to deal with the scar. you have to learn how to live with the scar. and that's what life is. it's about the experiences that we have. that was a clip from a new documentary "that which i love destroys me." which takes on the difficult topic of post-traumatic stress disorder. here to tell us more about the film actor frankie muniz, a celebrity ambassador for the arms forces foundation melissa fitzgerald of justice for vets and jason floidyd, an army veteran who shares his personal story. you guys this is good. know your value. you got this story on the air, right? you just went right up to joe and said "we're doing this" right? >> yes. it was very early in the morning at starbucks in georgetown and i walked up and said "i want to be on your show and talk about veterans." >> thank you for doing that. >> a very important issue, jason. we had sebastian junger on earlier this week and he said some people coming back from war that weren't even involved in conflict are still suffering from this and what do americans need to understand? >> well i think the purpose of the documentary was to normalize the process veterans go through when they come back from war, to make that process smoother. >> is the problem that it's so isolating? >> not that it's so isolating. these veterans their job when they go overseas when you do this job, you try to shoulder all of the tasks on your own. you you have try not to ask for help. the one thing you have to do when you come back to get better is ask for help and admit you might have a problem. >> and why is that such a problem? >> it goes against your training. there's a transition period that happens and if you're good at living in a society when you go to war you're not going to be good at that. there's an adjustment period. and when you get good at war and come back home, there's a transition period that i think society is -- there's a lacking of that understanding. >> lacking of understanding. talk about what it was like for you to come back and the struggles you have. >> well, you know it was rough. and that's the whole reason me and tyler decided to makes this documentary. when we came back there wasn't a net to catch us other fellow veterans. the purpose of this documentary is to make that transition smoother. >> frankie, what inspired you to be a part of this? you guys can jump behind a lot of different causes but this seems personal for you. >> to be honest i didn't have a personal connection to veterans to the war, but after hearing stories like jason's, seeing the documentary, other stories, veterans i've got on the meet it really motivate med to get involved. i wanted to help raise awareness in any way possible. to me it's a very important issue and i'm happy to do whatever i can to help like i said raise awareness to the veterans, to the families of the veterans and the people who -- regular civilians here in the states. >> because melissa, there does seem to be a disconnect sometimes with understanding the value of a veteran. but you can't just expect them to come back and just act as if nothing happened. >> well i think you make a very important point. all of our veterans including the veterans who are struggling are of our nation's greatest and most valuable civic assets and we need to be there for the ones who are struggling when they come home. and i know that that was one of the main reasons that we all came together behind this film is to draw attention to the fact that, left untreated, post-traumatic stress disorder traumatic brain injury can lead to homelessness, unemployment arrest or worse. and we need to be there as a nation with programs that work for our veterans. at justice for vets we champion veterans treatment courts and those programs are working returning healthy veterans to our communities. >> so the film's had like a ten-city screening tour but you guys are here to announce it will be available for free where and when? >> if you go to takepart.com/vets, the documentary is available through memorial day. so if you can go on there and check it out. it's a very inspiring and very informative documentary. >> jason, what was your takeaway from this whole project? what did you leave even with a better understanding even though you've been through this yourself. >> i think right now what's happening is it's part of counterculture that we understand veterans problems when they come back. but there are solutions to that problem and that's the reason i made this documentary. >> and what's the big idea? what's the first solution? >> to ask for help. it's the toughest part and admit you have a problem. and like cures like and to engage that conversation, that's the toughest part. that's the solution. >> frank muniz -- >> it's not pronounced that way. you can't get that right. he said at the very beginning, the toughest five-letter word. miss brzezinski. she's very tired? >> just call me mike-a. and jason floyd. thank you. as we mentioned, "that which i love destroys me" will be free to stream this memorial day weekend go. to takepart.com/vets. thank you so much really appreciate it. that does it for us this morning on "morning joe." 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