>> florida governor ron desantis in iowa yes today, not mentioning donald trump by name, but still taking a few swipes at him. i think he was. we will show you what else he had to say about the front runner in the race for the republican nomination. good morning, and welcome to morning joe. it is wednesday, may 31st. good to have your with us, along with joe, willie, and me. member of the new york times -- >> let's show jonathan really quick. >> okay, go, go. okay. >> we done this before. >> can we stop for a second? tj, i am scratching my face. you want to go to me now? and also, this historic day -- >> leave him alone. >> let's do jenna. hold on. cover me for a second, tj. >> okay. >> oh, we've got jen. see, she can't even mess up! >> now now. >> good morning. okay. >> is my collar straight? thank you. >> let's actually get to work. >> hold on. when we do get to work, it's going to be a lot of fun, because i'm going to get the yankees in a second, but these republicans -- will donald trump in 2017 said oh, we must raise the debt ceiling, what did he say? he said this is a very, very sacred thing in our country, the debt ceiling. we can never play with it. and they not only raised the debt ceiling under trump in 2017, 2018 and 2019, and they not only did it without an actual debt limit, they kept it open ended so they could say, hey, don, spend as much money as you like, which is unusual. they didn't even put a limit on it because they wanted to spend so much money. it's incredible. three times -- three times, even as the national debt soared to record levels. not only that, but get this. that's when you come to me. get this. three, two, one -- get this, willie. come on, wake up, tj. they actually attacked spending bills. does everybody follow me here? they actually attached spending bills to raising the debt limit. they said, not only are we going to raise the debt ceiling to just where there is actually no ceiling, and not only are we not only going to attach cuts to it, but we republicans who are running this place, we are going to attach billion-dollar spending bills to the debt ceiling increase. i mean, the hypocrisy here -- there has to be -- i don't know, superduper calla fragile lipstick hypocrisy. it's hypocrisy squared here for these republicans who are suddenly so shocked and stunned that we are actually having to pay for all the spending and tax cut that they loaded onto the budget back from 2017 through 2021. never paying for any of the tax cuts, never paying for any of the spending. >> four years of donald trump, nearly $1 trillion was added to the deficit, largely because of those tax cuts you are talking about. here, republicans are truly, any theatrical way, setting their hair on fire because there might be some addition to money added to snap, for example, or benefits for people in this country. kevin mccarty says, i cut more than $1 trillion out of the budget over a decade. this is a good deal that we've negotiated. i guess the question is, is this all signaling to the base? are these people pounding the lectern and saying, this is the worst bill i've ever seen? one congressman said, if you vote for this, the republic will never be the same. suddenly, fighting religion on the desk now the joe biden is on the office. is that all just a signal to the base? i know it's going to pass, so i can afford to scream and yell about it. and we don't default as a nation. >> it is all virtue signaling, because maura, they did this in 2017. they did it in 2018, they did it in 2019. and by the way, those first two years, they run the house, they were in the senate, they win the white house. they ran the senate and the white house, guess what they said? we can't build a wall. a wall won't do any good. you can claim under a wall, you can climb over a wall. lindsey graham, john cornyn, i could go down the list. they had the vote, and none of them wanted to build donald trump's wall, because they said, it's a stupid idea. also when they had the power, they said, it's a stupid idea to hold america hostage. and i know you are getting nervous right now because you are afraid that tj's going to go to a chopper shot, but don't worry. but again, the hypocrisy is crazy. if you tell them the currency here, they say, we voted with you guys to raise the debt ceiling three times when we actually added spending, and now you are saying this is the end of the republic? i don't get it. >> one of the strange things about this, totally insane, is that it's clear that there are some people who came to washington not to run government, but actually to rake it. and so, you know, it's hard to wonders and why else you would hold the country hostage over something like the debt ceiling, which is essential to the function of our government. i know it's wonky, i know it's complicated, with this just should not be a political football. we need the government to continue to run. kevin mccarthy understands that, and there are republicans who understand this. obviously, the white house does as well. we shouldn't have even had to see a negotiation like this. this should have just happened as a course of doing business. the other thing that you see here is the true agenda of the republican party at the moment. this refusal to roll back the trump tax cuts from 2017 that added 1.8 trillion to the budget through 2029. as if you that carried interest, and the loophole, which is of course, a loophole for hedge fund managers, for the wealthy. and so the question becomes, what is is actually doing for everyday americans, a republican agenda. unfortunately here, many of the benefits that are relied upon by working-class americans, including snap, as you mentioned, were largely preserved, and this deal is expected to add about 50,000 people, i think, to nutrition -- to the nutrition rules of what people can get through that they need. so that's a win. >> the very people who are screaming right now about this debt ceiling being raised, with cuts, with significant cuts, are the very people, again, who went along with donald trump three times. three times. and even those who voted against it weren't screaming, rolling press conferences saying it's the end of the republic like they are now. it's total nonsense. they sat there quietly, quietly, including the freedom caucus, i am ever going to mark meadows and going, dude, you guys are spending too much money. instead of doing all your's to bid virtue signaling, you need to start focusing on spending. i told meadows this twice while we were having lunch at the capital. i said, you have got to use your position to actually curb spending in washington, d.c. it's out of control, and here's the thing -- i told him. you got to worry about what happens when republicans are in power, because then as it happened under george w. bush, the spending is out of control. the democrats love spending, too. if the republicans want to spend, democrats are going to stop them. it's important for them to do what we did when we were there. we stopped our own republican brothers and sisters from spending too much. balanced the budget four years in a row. do you think he listened? he did not listen. not only did he not listen, they were led by a guy -- i don't know if you've heard this quote before, but this is donald trump, and he said, the debt ceiling is a sacred element of our country. dog, cat, horse, person, mule. that's a very, very sacred thing in our country, debt ceiling. first of all, i just want to -- if we could, let's break up that sentence. that's a very sacred thing in our country, debt ceiling. we can never play with it. so i would have to assume we are in great shape. that's donald trump, the man, who along with his republicans and the house and the senate that are being so self- righteous right now, actually caused the greatest increase in the federal debt in u.s. history. in fact, he raised it $8 trillion in four years. that is more debt piled up in donald trump's terms with all of these self-righteous republicans then were piled up in the first -- let's see, 220 years of this republic. >> they are counting on people not remembering, being too busy, and not holding them accountable. and they just take a position that serves them at the moment. that's all. here's where things stand right now, by the way. the house rules committee voted in favor of advancing the debt ceiling bill to a full house vote set for later tonight. republicans chip roy of texas and ralph nyman of south carolina joined all four democrats on the panel in voting against the bill. the bill appears likely to pass today in the full house, but president biden and house speaker kevin mccarthy are still receiving criticism from the outer flanks of their parties. some democrats in the house progressive caucus are still undecided on their boat for the bill, and the results of a work requirement for aid recipients. we speak with one of those progressive members of congress later in the show. meanwhile, despite speaker mccarthy reportedly receiving a standing ovation and a republican conference meeting yesterday, gop hardliners are very angry at the deal. >> speaker mccarthy had a mandate from the american people. this deal that we have heard about totally fails to deliver on all of it. not one republican should vote for this deal. it is a bad deal. there's going to be a reckoning about what just occurred, unless we stop this bill by tomorrow. >> what we see here in this deal is absolutely one of the biggest abominations since i've been in washington, d.c. i had no idea. i had no idea to have a plan this ephemeral and malodorous as this plan. >> i love ephemeral plan. i also love when people use words that they don't know what they mean. i don't know if you guys know it or not, but the new ephemeral design for the diet coke can -- >> what are you drinking a diet coke? >> is quite ephemeral. the word for the day is ephemeral. look it up. so -- i just -- a reckoning is coming. a reckoning is coming. despite the fact, jim, the kevin mccarthy and joe biden have actually put together a far more conservative debt ceiling deal then donald trump, and the same republicans did, three times they raised it. he raised the '17, '18, '19. and he said this is one of the biggest abominations i've ever seen. i would call the biggest abomination if you lie to your voters, like they lied to their voters repeatedly over and over and over and over again. they lie year in and year out. they are not small government conservatives. they are only small government conservatives went democrats in the white house. when republicans are in the white house, whether it's george w. bush or w trump, suddenly they spend money more than anybody else in u.s. history. it's happened twice. it's a matter of numbers. they can't fake news their way out of it, they can't lie their way out of it. it's in the numbers. it's in donald trump's own treasury department numbers. and yet, jim, they say a reckoning is coming, this right the fact donald trump -- they said nothing with donald trump did this three times and actually attached spending bills onto them raising the debt limit with no limits. what hypocrisy. >> i don't really get it. even allowing for the hypocrisy that we are seeing from these house republicans, when democratic presidents are in charge, this is what they do. they hold the country hostage, this is what they do. but what i don't get is that there doesn't seem to be a the truancy for the outrage that chip roy has said he feels, or people don't seem to feel this is malodorous as -- as they've said. ephemeral and malodorous, i think, but i can't really say malodorous, obviously. there's not -- if the base was as worked up as those members of the freedom caucus was, i think mccarthy -- we would not be in a position today of thinking that this is going to pass the house tonight, but i think that there is sort of a crisis fatigue. in the country, and in the congress. there's a few republican members of congress jumping up and down. there's a progressive members of congress that have legitimate concerns with work requirement that are in the bill, maybe the benefits overall get expanded. these are not just numbers, these are people. they are concerned about that. but, you know, you just don't feel within the country, and even within the republican base, the outrage that these freedom caucus members feel. and i think that's partly because even at the base level, we understand hypocrisy. even at the base level, they understand spending goes up under republican presidents. they pass the debt limit, this is kind of a manufactured crisis. >> yeah, yeah. manufactured crisis. it's all virtue signaling. let me repeat this, because it's not set enough, just like the wall. donald trump, i'm going to build the wall, i'm going to build the wall. he's presidents, he has a republican house, he has a republican tenant. what did they say? we are not going to build the wall. why? because is not going to work. >> it's almost like the alternative to healthcare. >> this is all virtue signaling. this is all government by gesture. anyway, jonathan, give us your update on your reporting. only one catchier -- you have to use the word ephemeral in your reports. >> well, we will start with, i thought the only honest moment in donald trump's town hall where he was pressed about that comment where he said the debt limit is a sacred thing, he said, well, yeah, because i'm not president now. which gives away the game. it's right there. he said it! he said it out loud. this is when he was president, republicans were in control, the debt limit was a sacred thing. >> you are seeing his passion then was just on ephemeral passion? >> teamwork. it was. and now, of course, they think it's a sacred thing that they have to deal with. and what has happened here is, there is a confidence. it's not a sure thing, but there's confidence on both sides that the votes are there and they will get this across the finish line. it will be close, but they will get it done, and that allows base for the outrage. that allows republicans on the fridge to throw a fit, throw the press conference to try to raise the money off of it where they can satisfy there can situate and went right to the mattresses for this thing even though they know it will pass, and the nation will not default, which will be catastrophic for everyone. i do think as soon as this is done in the next couple of days, washington is going to turn the page on it as fast as humanly possible and move onto the next thing, because there really are no winners here. they just need to get it done. i would say this, president biden can again say to the american people, it's a bipartisan thing, we got it done, we are governing with some confidence. >> this morning, they say the vote will happen today: 30 tonight and the debt ceiling will be raised and will be stayed for another year and a half or so. one interesting footnote though is that kevin mccarthy's future, he did place a rule in order to win the vote from all these hardliners that one person can raise his or her hand and they, i want a vote of no-confidence and move them out of the place. their threat to do that seems unlikely, but these that's what these people are talking about with this ephemeral, malodorous legislation. >> that's kind of the question, is how far do they want to take the outrage show, as it were. the outrage circus. do they want to stop it? or do they want to take it all the way to kind of come for speaker mccarthy seat? we don't know, but hopefully for the sake of the country, we can actually focus on governing and move forward without too much. we shall see. and still ahead on morning joe -- >> hold on. i made a promise -- on ephemeral guarantee. i'm sticking with this one. the yankees last night, they are on fire. the boston red sox collapsing. i said the yankees were going to beat us by about 20, 25 games this year. i'm putting it up to 25 this year. but the yankees on the west coast, you guys are on fire. >> yeah, they're beating up on the mariners and seattle. aaron judge in another home run last night. he's up to 18, leading the american league. he's missed 11 other games of a hip injury, so he's only paid in fortysomething games and has 18 home runs, just plain incredible defense. underrated in right field, so they are playing well, but they are's bill, you know, still three, four games the orioles and the raise. that division is brutal. the yankees now i think of the fourth or fifth best record in baseball, and they are in third place in their own division. but they are really playing well. >> they are playing great. let me just say, the red sox may be in last place, but we earned it last night. we earned it hard. i mean, that guy -- he threw it -- it sort of a bad sign when you throw 92 pages in your first inning. it was really, really rough. and i love him, right? i'm not exactly sure when he's going to play a double play to end the inning, why he throws to the ball girl out in right field. but he just did. i mean, you know. i am a jazz sort of guy. you got to be free-form. if you want to throw to the ball girl instead of turning the twin killing and getting out of the inning, you go, boy. and why be conventional when we could actually win a game. >> the red sox have returned to their natural habitat of last lace, sadly. >> why do you even watch? he has not brought much to the table today. he's not doing much of anything. and they say, as they've done this year, they tried to come back last night, and they fell short. sadly, i think we are in a pretty familiars right there at fifth place in the als east. >> as you always say, it's a long, long season. tomorrow is june 1st. it's a long season, which means, really, we've got a long way to go to endure last place. but i think we are going to do it. i think we are going to hold on. >> the season is not ephemeral. the opposite of that. >> oh, my god. the lead on morning joe -- we are going to have more from -- >> did he say that, too? >> i thought he did, yeah. he's a guy who says ephemeral. >> will have more from florida governor ron desantis on the ephemeral 2024 kickoff event in iowa last night. plus, new reporting about infighting among donald trump's legal team. for the many investigations he is facing. also this morning, tense moments over the south china sea, as a chinese fighter jet is directly in front of the mail-in survey that plane. what the pentagon is saying, and how beijing is responding this morning. and, could artificial intelligence lead to extinction? >> all right, you think about that when we go to break. >> we will take a quick look at quick mornings from newtek leaders. you're watching morning joe. we will be back, we think. thin. america is on the brink of defaulting on its debt, and donald trump is telling republicans in congress: “you're going to have to do a default.” he's pushing an extreme agenda to slash the basics we depend on, hurting the middle class, seniors, and veterans. a default would crash our economy, delay social security checks, and put basic services at risk. with so much on the line, now is their chance to finally stand up to trump's chaos. so tell republicans in congress: say no to trump. say no to default. are you still struggling with your bra? 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[ring floodlight cam siren sounds] [bear growls] and ring alarm with professional monitoring. ten years of reinventing home security, and tens of millions of safer homes. protect your home, the way i do. learn more at ring.com dove invited women who wanted their damaged hair trimmed. yes, i need a trim. i just want to be able to cut the damage. we tried dove instead. so, still need that trim? oh my gosh! i am actually shocked i don't need a haircut. don't trim daily damage. stop it with dove. >> mysterious shot of new york city. half past the hour, time to wake up, everybody. wednesday morning, florida governor ron desantis officially launched his first campaign tour in iowa yesterday. the first stop on a four day push through three early voting states. this interest criticized elites several times during his speech, and he called on his supporters to move to washington, d.c. >> i wish the elites in washington, d.c. would take a page out of the iowa playbook. but instead, they have ignored what works, and they have continued to plunge this nation into the abyss. our country is going in the wrong direction. we need to inspire americans from around the country to maybe pick up your family and moved to the nation's capital for 2, four, six, or eight years, because we need people who live in the country to come out to d.c. to reassert the right of we, the people, to run our own government. d.c. has imposed its will on us for far too long. it's time we impose our will on washington, d.c. >> after the rally, desantis delivered his most direct attacks of the former president so far. >> i'm going to respond to attacks. i mean, if you say cuomo did a better job with covid, then florida did -- first of all, that's not what he used to to say. six months ago, you would've never said that. his whole family moved to florida of under my governorship. are you kidding me? >> okay. >> they actually did. they actually did. i am wondering, you look at this speech, you look at the press conference. he actually does look like he may be willing to go after donald trump a little bit here and there. it's fascinating, though. telling people from iowa, you need to move to the district of columbia? i don't know, maybe not my leave. >> moved to the district of columbia to do what? i mean, it's not -- for better or worse, d.c. is not governed by the people who live here. so i think the thing desantis -- it's strange, right? but the thing with desantis, yesterday, from what he's trying to accomplish, it went well. what i don't really get -- i'm interested in everyone's view on this -- is why trump is attacking desantis as much as he is. trump is way up in the fold, right? most polls have him with a 20 digit -- 20 point lead over desantis, in the early primary states. not quite as high, but still a lead. he should be ignoring desantis. instead, he's been attacking him. and he's been attacking him as a hypocrite, right? thing desantis was forming in 2018 when he ran, he had that ad, and now he's against me. it's interesting, because it reminds me of the attacks that other republicans made against trump in 2000 eckstein that did not work, right? so if trump is acting as a conventional candidate, i think it just missed me serving to elevate desantis. even trump voters like desantis. i don't know that they are going to like trump voters going after desantis, and when he does not attack him in his beaches, he talks about people moving to d.c. -- weird, but he's not attacking trump. the response from the press conference is one trump attacked him, and that may go over better, particularly in iowa, than what trump is doing. we haven't really seen polling yet that can tell us how desantis is actually doing since he is announced, but i'm really interested to see if these trump attacks on him are hurting desantis where they end up hurting trump. >> he said move there for 2 to six years, i think that's what he meant. but donald trump will be in iowa, he's coming into sort of get the last word amongst those two, but this is how he ran in 2016. was the favorite of the moment? vaporized him, called him low- energy jab, and then moved down the line. i guess that's why he's going after ron desantis. his performance yesterday, well- received in the room. maybe not this list of political operators, but it is early. >> he has time to improve, but he doesn't possess a lot of retail political skills, not a lot of face-to-face time with voters. we seem clips go viral in recent days reese try to approximate a human laugh when shaking someone's hand. i think to jen's point, he does risk elevating desantis by singling him out. people are on trump saying, it's worked. his poll numbers have collapsed. some of that, it might be desantis own endorsement of extreme policies, especially the abortion ban in lord. but trump people think they are crushing him. the brief flash there shows a 2020 swing in the race. so that seems to be where trump is now. i mean, desantis -- what does he need to do here? to try to reverse that? part of that is going to have to be taking on trump more directly than we just saw. >> just watching him campaign out there, he's an extremely awkward campaigner so far. to your point, he could get better. he needs to either get a lot better really quickly, or, you know, alternatively, he can kind of stay away from those big rallies that donald trump is, you know, that is his signature. maybe desantis cannot go head- to-head with donald trump kind of holding court. that is donald trump's specialty. so far, i don't see how he's going to compete against trump on that level. desantis seems to be best at a quick jab and retreating, coming out with some extreme policy that the base may like, like the six week abortion ban, then kind of retreating. but the more he's in front of cameras, the more we see him campaigning during retail events, the more obvious it is that he may not be ready for prime time. >> he's leaning in to watch and answer questions yesterday, but also, the disney site. he is proud of the disney site. i guess maybe he has some internal numbers that show it works in the primary. although, the public point polling does not suggest that it's working. >> yeah, i think for whatever reason, people who vote republican primaries, they feel like disney is a winning issue for them. you know, it's fascinating -- until 2016, the way you won iowa, the way he won new hampshire, the way he won south carolina, the way you won the primary is that you walked door- to-door, held hundreds of town hall meetings, you met people in iowa and new hampshire, six, seven, eight, nine times. i been talking about sort of a return to the laws of gravity. not only the law, but also in american politics. you know, we are all focused on how trump flies in, gives his speech, says these horrible things on social media, and there is an exhaustion factor there even among republicans, especially among republicans who want to win. and i just wondering -- ron desantis goes the traditional route. he goes the alternative routes, he knocks on doors, he shakes hands. he didn't go down any golden elevator -- escalator to announce he did it what ted cruz did and went to the biggest, you know, evangelical group of people he could find. he announced in an iowa church. he talked to them there, shook hands, and did it sort of the old-fashioned way. he did things donald trump will just never do. i'm wondering -- maybe that's a path forward. maybe we are just getting into june now, he's got six, seven months before -- to do it. and let me tell you something. from somebody that had no money the first time i ran, you use that time, you knock on doors, you shake people's hands, you go into their homes, you hold small town hall meetings in neighborhoods, and you just do it. you chalk up one precinct, one neighborhood after another. suddenly, people don't know who you are until one day, everybody knows who you are. and in desantis case, i'm just wondering if one yard sign at a time, one handshake at a time, one community center at a time doesn't add up over six months to actually help him. you know, possibly beat donald trump. >> i am wondering the same thing, particularly in iowa, which is a state that doesn't like predetermined outcomes, doesn't like incumbents, you know, governments often don't do well there. they like to sort out and find a new leader. and they don't like people that attack other republicans. you know, i saw an event that donald trump did in iowa. he said something about ron desantis. you know, he attacked ron desantis in some way, and people just didn't react. i seen that and other trump rallies. people don't react. they don't like it, because they actually like ron desantis. they want trump to be president, they want ron desantis to be president after him. this is why i wonder, yeah, desantis is down a lot, but i do wonder about trump continuing to attack him. i know that's what they do, it's hurt other people, it's hurt other republican candidates, particularly in 2016. but no one has attacked trump from the right on social issues the way that ron desantis is doing it. and no one has the record, for better or worse, that ron desantis has on ultra right on social issues. and it may be in iowa that that can work. you know, he presents a nice face when he is giving his speech. doesn't really attacked trump. makes veiled attacks on him, but doesn't go after him directly. that could wear well. i mean, we got a long time -- 10 months, i think, at least, until -- or, eight months to when they actually vote in iowa, so he could wear well. how that -- you know, how you move on in the primary, i don't know. like, how desantis will do a new hampshire, where they are not excited about the abortion ban. but in iowa, i could see him winning. >> and i will tell you, there is no substitute for being there, shaking people's hand. and yeah, he's awkward. the people say he's awkward talking to them. he actually presents the possibility that when he gets out of the tallahassee bubble and he keeps doing this, he will figure out a way to get through it. and again, i'm not cheering on ron desantis here. all i'm saying is, it's awfully early to say this race is over and he's got the luxury of six, seven month to knock on doors, to shake hands, to do the retail politicking that he is doing that brings elections in iowa and new hampshire. unlike the red sox season, this race is hard for most. >> coming up, a new argument in favor of humanity. warnings about an artificial intelligence takeover after a lawyer relied on chat gpt to prepare a court filing. we will dig into what went wrong in that case, next on morning joe. morning joe. how can you sleep on such a firm setting? gab, mine is almost the same as yours. almost... just another word for not as good as mine. save 50% on the sleep number limited edition smart bed. plus, free home delivery when you add an 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nature. is this you? but then he got us t-mobile home internet. i was just trying to improve our signal, so some of the trees had to go. i might've taken it a step too far. (chainsaw revs) (tree crashes) (chainsaw continues) (daughter screams) let's pretend for a second that you didn't let down your entire family. what would that reality look like? well i guess i would've gotten us xfinity... and we'd have a better view. do you need mulch? what, we have a ton of mulch. >> 45 past the hour, hundreds of tech executives and artificial intelligence scientist are warning ai poses an existential threat to humanity. the group signed a one sentence open letter that reads, quote, mitigating the risk of extinction from ai should be a global priority alongside other societal scale risks, such as pandemics and nuclear war. sam altman, the ceo of the company behind chat gpt was among those who signed the letter. he testified before congress earlier this month and asked lawmakers to regulate the technology. the ceos of google and microsoft did not sign the letter, but several members of google's deep mind artificial intelligence unit did sign it. >> meanwhile, in march, a lawyer representing a client in manhattan's federal court emitted a briefing to a judge arguing why his client's case should not be thrown out. the case was filed against the airline avianca who says he was injured when hit by a serving cart during the flight. the lawyer cited more than a half a different relevant court decisions to make his case for why the lawsuit had precedent. the only problem -- none of those decisions were real. an affidavit filed last week, the times reports the lawyer admitted to using the open ai tool chat gpt to conduct his research. the program reportedly told him yes when it asked him to verify that the cases were legitimate. let's bring in mbc legal analyst danny zavala's. why don't we introduce the story into the dialogue, because it shows what ai is capable of, but it also shows the flaw that has effectively made up all the case research here. >> there's plenty of human error here as well. plus, the initial document cited these cases opposing counsel for avianca filed something saying, we are looking at those cases, and they don't exist. the judge issues an order saying, file copies of these cases so we can look at them. they apparently go right back to chat gpt and file the cases the chat gpt gave them. and we see even later in an affidavit confirming this that the lawyer typed in a request to chat gpt. hey, are these cases that you gave me real? chat gpt says, yes, they are. plenty of human lawyer error here, chat gpt might still be a valid tool for lawyers, you have to verify at least at this stage, because it is really in its infancy. and the problem is, when you sign something or file something to the court, you are verifying that everything in there is accurate, and it is not verified if you only ask chat gpt if it is verified. chat gpt cannot take responsibility, the lawyer has to take responsibility. and i don't appreciate being texted to ask if i was the lawyer that did this. >> these are questions of the audience needs to have answered. >> so this combination of human error and the use of ai, sort of going awry. what is the outcome of this case now? they toss it? >> not necessarily toss it, although that was the issue of the ocean where it was filed. more than likely, you're going to see professional discipline. that's something that strikes fear into the hearts of employees. actually took a tale of two lawyers here. one, a tale of sympathy, one, not so much. you have a lawyer that is practiced -- this lawyer practice for 30 years and never bothered to walk down the street to be admitted to the federal court, so he asks the other lawyer, can i do all the research and you to sign the document and file it? i done that. now you have two lawyers on the hook, and no good deed goes unpunished. one lawyer, all he did was trust that his fellow colleague in the firm had done all the research and verified it. once the judge has said, they do not play around with things like this. you might get away with this in state court with a crowded docket. if a judge is raising the alarm some of these cases we can't find them it's time to pay for a west law subscription and lexis and get it verified the right way, not through the openai chatgpt system. >> more of the headline a.i. poses risk of extinction, that's a good way to start your day. but setting that aside for the moment, just not in this particular case but your thoughts on how a.i. or whether it's chatgpt or another program, what is its eventual role in the legal profession? what is its eventual role when it comes to the judicial system and how can it be used? >> you kids may not remember a movie from the '80s called terminator, but this is the same theory it becomes self-aware and launches missiles against us. it's interesting as we were all concerned about this, lawyers, i can talk about it academically, when it was like hey, will a.i. replace truck driving? i don't drive truck. now you look at us lawyers getting very nervous because it seems like a.i. could begin to replace what we do. so i think this case is a teachable moment, at least at this stage. a.i. isn't -- we're not in danger of sky net turning the missiles on it, but we are in danger of getting false results. by the way, this wasn't just false results. apparently it looks like the a.i. generated entire cases, not citations, but actual decisions. that's the part that's scary. it's the deep fake problem. to what degree are we getting false information in the form of our research. that's something scary. were there red flags? yeah. one of the cases cited was durdsen, another movie, tyler durdsen, "fight club" subversive a.i. playing a prank on us. it's the deep fake -- it's the deep fake concern at this stage, maybe not the, you know, human extinction alarmist position. >> that's the point that a lot of these leaders -- many of the people who created this stuff -- saying we have to pump the brakes, they worry about propaganda spreading quickly. before i let you go, as the sometimes howard stern wrap-up show host, will howard reverse his rsvp and attend ronny's wedding? >> i have zero inside information. i have my instinct, willie, and i have to say i believe he will. i fear that in saying so, word gets a back to him, this may color his opinion if he thinks that surprise has been exposed. >> understood. >> for now, everyone, i think there's a good chance he will show up, but -- >> let's lope so. >> i agree. >> poor ronnie. he earned it. >> how great is danny se val loss, truly does it all. legal analyst and so much more. thanks so much. good to see you. still ahead, joined by one of the tom democrats in the house, congressman jim clyburn of south carolina, ahead of today's vote on the debt ceiling bill and ask him if there are enough yes votes from his party to get that bill to the senate. "morning joe" is coming right back. joe" is coming right back - representative! - sorry, i didn't get that. - oh buddy! you need a hug. you also need consumer cellular. get the exact same coverage as the nation's leading carriers and 100% us based customer support. starting at $20. consumer cellular. realtor.com (in a whisper) can we even afford this house? maybe jacob can finally get a job. the house whisperer! this house says use realtor.com to see homes in your budget. you're staying in school, jacob! realtor.com. to each their home. when a truck hit my car, realtor.com. the insurance company wasn't fair. to each their home. i didid't t kn whahatmy c caswa, so i called the barnes firm. i'm rich barnes. it's hard for people to k how much their accident case is worth.h barnes. t ouour juryry aorneneys hehelpou . welcome back. it's a few minutes before the top of the hour. a beautiful shot of capitol hill where a lot of work is being done. >> and so, mara, "the new york times" editorial, from yesterday, pass the debt limit deal and then figure out how to end the drama. obviously, you have "the new york times" editorial page, even "the wall street journal" editorial page, both agreeing on the same thing for different reasons. this should be passed. the "times" editorial says that biden and democrats do something more. they should look ahead and be prepared two years from now and actually test a constitutional argument. >> that's right. i mean, ultimately, you know, we do take debt seriously. it's a real issue, and so that's not the circus. but you just want to try to avoid a situation that we had where this becomes a political football, and trying also just not to negotiate against ourselves, having to throw essential programs of the american people away, while still protecting, you know, tax breaks for billionaires, and so that's our concern. >> member of the "new york times" editorial board, mara gay, thanks being on this morning. >> thank you mara. thank you for your patience. pj taking a shot of citifield. i'm not sure what that was about. >> she's a met's fan. >> senator chris murphy says the left needs a spiritual renaissance and so does america. the connecticut democrat will explain that next on "morning joe." we're back in one minute. g joe. we're back in one minute speaker mccarthy had a mandate from the american people. this deal we've heard about totally fails to deliver on all of it. >> not one republican should vote for this deal. it is a bad deal. there's going to be a reckoning about what just occurred unless we stop this bill by tomorrow. >> what i see here in this deal is absolutely one of the biggest abominations since i've been in washington, d.c. i had no idea, i had no idea that we would see a plan as ephemeral and as malodorous as this plan. >> i think when you read "the wall street journal" and "the new york post," you listen to a lot of economists and they will say this is the strongest debt ceiling we've ever had. if i compare it to when the republicans were in the majority, they had the house, senate and presidency, they didn't cut anything. they added more money. >> top of the hour. speaker mccarthy defending the deal and hardliners as you heard, joe, trashing it. they say it's going to be a reckoning. what's the reckoning? >> yeah. what's the reckoning? when the speaker is right. where were all of these people, why weren't they screaming and yelling at donald trump when donald trump and republicans, when they controlled everything, as kevin mccarthy said? republicans raised the debt ceiling three times under donald trump. in fact, back in 2019, trump signed budget legislation which suspended the debt ceiling, right. no debt ceiling at all. just blew the -- blew a hole in the roof, and then raised spending by $324 billion. he also suspended the debt ceiling until july 2021. eliminating any chance of an ugly battle before the 2020 election. and willie, again, you have chip roy talking about a reckoning. there's going to be a reckoning. and the other guy -- >> malodorous. ephemeral. talking about one of the biggest abominations. do they not understand that you can literally google stuff, i will say stuff, you can literally google stuff, in three seconds, and find out that donald trump said that the debt ceiling was sacred. you can find out that they blew a hole in the debt ceiling three times when they ran washington, d.c., and the fact that they actually attached the massive spending bills to the debt ceiling to try to force people to vote for the debt ceiling. three times. these guys, i mean, why didn't they say it was malodorous and ephemeral then, first off, because ephemeral is not used correctly there, why didn't they talk about a reckoning when donald trump did it three times? here as kevin mccarthy says, you actually have cuts. >> yeah. $1.5 trillion in cuts over ten years is where it sits right now. that's what kevin mccarthy is saying. i made a deal with the white house. i got some things that we can agree to. i got some things that we even like. we had to give up a few things, because as they all should know, that's how things work in washington if you want a deal. it's like the members are not standing on principle but trying to speak to their voters and says baste and show they're putting up a fight even though they know they didn't do this when donald trump was in office and donald trump's administration added $7.8 trillion to the national debt thanks in large parts to the tax cuts for the wealthy. jonathan lemire, all this raises the question now of can those members we heard from, stand in the way of this deal, or are we kind of sailing -- it might be close, but sailing to passage around 8:30 tonight? >> the leadership is confident. representative mchenry, one of mccarthy's top negotiators, said moments ago, they have the votes. now between now and 8:30 could things change? they could. some on the right are going to -- we're going to hear from them today -- they will make their stand and they might be playing to their constituents back home, to the conservative cable indoors, whatever it might be. the theatrics of this as well. there is a sense it will be close, but it will get done. part two of this will be, if this does pass, do some of these right wing members try to take on mccarthy's speakership? it doesn't take much to go after him, to call for that vote, his grasp on power pretty tenuous, at least to this point, again, seemingly more bluster than action. no one has signaled they will go through with it, at least not yet. >> and if, mika, they actually do that, it will actually strengthen kevin mccarthy's hand because what will happen? they will have as many votes as they want and kevin mccarthy will end up being speaker. they don't want to have that discussion on the house floor because they will be proven to be the liars and the hypocrites that they actually are. they will be proven to be the people who actually supported raising the debt ceiling three times without any cuts, and actually, the last time, not even putting a debt ceiling on top of it and attaching massive spending bills. even those who voted against that, the few who voted against that, they didn't go out and hold press conferences. they didn't say that a reckoning was coming. why didn't they say a reckoning was coming for donald trump? why didn't they say it -- why didn't chip roy say a reckoning was coming for donald trump when he raised the national debt which $8 trillion in one term. $8 trillion in one term? by the way, even precovid. you can check. you can check what i wrote. you can check what i said. i was warning republicans, face to face, going to congress, warning republicans, you've got to cut spending. if you're going to have these massive trump tax cuts, you've got to pay for some of them. you're blowing a hole in the national debt. we can't afford it to go any higher. they didn't listen. $8 trillion later, we are now over $30 trillion. thanks to donald trump and these very republicans that didn't hold these press conferences while he was president of the united states. >> well, the white house has a new message for progressives who are voicing criticism of the debt limit deal as well, saying it could have been worse. while speaker kevin mccarthy takes a victory lap, white house officials say the spending figures ultimately favor democrats. a senior administration official tells politico the argument being made to democrats has focused on how medicare, social security, medicaid, the inflation reduction act, chips, and other programs are, quote, all being preserved and funded under the agreement. that official called the deal a good outcome, consistent with past bipartisan budget agreements. the host of msnbc's "politics nation" and president of the national action network, reverend al sharpton. rev al, what's your take? >> well, i happen to be with those that are concerned about work requirements and that are also concerned about other things, but at the same time, you have to agree that we did a lot better than we thought we would do by preserving what you just named in terms of medicaid, social security and others. and you knew you were going to have to give up something. i think that i understand some of the progressives that say i can't vote for this because of something, but at the end of the day, we've been able to preserve some basic things that the right wing republicans wanted to touch and that was medicaid, that was other things that we know would impact people and sometimes you have to go for the bigger picture and i think that the president did a good job in saving us for the bigger picture. on the right wing side, to take a principle stand for your constituency is understandable if you have principles. how do you have principles if you didn't have them under donald trump? the way to know whether someone is principled is to see if they're consistent. i think that there's some progressives that are being consistent, some are not, and i think some and much of the right wing that will huff and puff but will not blow mccarthy's house down are inconsistent on principle and just playing to their base. >> again, because they did it three times when donald trump was president. not once did they go hold press conferences talk about a reckoning coming for donald trump, not once did they attack donald trump. it's just pure hypocrisy. let's bring in senator chris murphy from connecticut. there's nothing new. if you look at republicans -- when i was there, we actually balanced a budget four times. democrats and republicans alike balanced the budget four times. i left congress in 2001 saying, hey, we figured this out. we don't have to spend trillions of dollars in debt and then george w. bush, the republicans got in power, and the debt doubled. barack obama got to power, debt doubled. donald trump, raised the national debt to levels nobody ever had before. $8 trillion added on in just four years. breathtaking, reckless and now republicans are lecturing america and democrats on fiscal responsibility. how maddening is that to you? >> yeah. and i think about reverend sharpton talking about the big picture here because the big picture now is that it's a democratic priority to pay america's bills, right. that's now become a partisan issue as to whether we default or not default on american debt. today you have an adult party and a children's party. right. you have a party that's interested in governing, that's interested in preserving the american economy and paying our bills and an american party just using government to enrich their friends. why did they rack up $8 trillion of debt? why did the debt expand by 40% during donald trump's presidency? because they used all their political capital during those four years, essentially to do one thing, to give away massive tax breaks to billionaires, millionaires and corporations. the reason that they are so focused on these spending cuts to programs that help poor people and the middle class, is because they have to pay to extend and preserve those tax breaks for billionaires and millionaires. for the country, he's going to rewrite it and reintroduce his own legislation. what are the prospects for this getting through the senate? >> i don't think we have time to rewrite the bill. it may be that we end up taking a few amendment votes, but i think we need an up or down vote on this by the end of the week and imagine we will find a pathway to do that. listen, we are trying to be the responsible party here, so while i want to ask a few more questions about the details in this bill, it is true that once joe biden made the decision to negotiate, he seems to have crafted a deal that rejects all of the big republican asks, right, the massive long-term spending cuts, the repeal of the president's energy legislation, changes to the medicaid program. none of that is in this agreement, so i applaud the president for doing a really good job of negotiations once he got in the room. for me the worry is about the precedent that we're setting here, but i think the senate can get this done by the end of the week. >> senator murphy, the white house has said they enshrined a lot of what the white house has gotten done saying that won't be impacted by this. we assume this will get done. it's been brokered to this point in a somewhat bipartisan fashion, even if not everyone involved is happy about the process. what does that make you think about going forward here? the next year and a half at least of divided government in washington, do you think there could -- this is a step in the right direction where there could be more appetite and ability to broker some sort of bipartisan legislation, either big or small? >> well, let's see what happens to kevin mccarthy after this vote tonight. if mccarthy survives this vote, then maybe his appetite grows to try to, you know, get some additional legislation done. my fear is that he's going to use every bit of political capital that he has to simply pay america's bills and then he's going to sort of crawl back into his shell and we're not going to get anything else done for the american people. you know, we've got a group of senators, bipartisan senators, in the senate, that are working through a possible comprehensive immigration reform bill. that's absolutely something that we could get done. but my worry is after this, mccarthy is just going to preserve his own power, sort of sit on his hands, and that we're going to have an unproductive rest of this congress. i hope he proves me wrong. >> so senator, you co-wrote an op-ed in "the daily beast" titled "the left needs a spiritual renaissance, so does america." tell us about that argument. >> yeah. we're talking today about the nuts and bolts of governance, right. we're talking about whether america is paying its bills what the medicaid program looks like, how much money schools are getting under covid relief dollars. i make the case in that op-ed that we need to take a couple big steps back and have a conversation with the american people about what's making them so unhappy, about what it sort of means to be happy, about what government can provide you in order to lead a life that's fulfilling. that is traditionally not a conversation that happens in government because we are, you know, mainly focused on adjusting the dials of public policy. i've just come to the conclusion that in my state and around the country, people are really anxious, they're really lonely, very unhappy, that's sending them into some deep, dark, dangerous places that in part leads to january 6th and the point we make in the op-ed is somewhere in our political space we have to be able to step back and have a conversation with the american people about what they need in order to live a good life, a fulfilled life, and find some room in our political dialog for that bigger, broader, more spiritual conversation. i know that that kind of seems like a silly, frivolous thing on a day like today where we're just trying to keep the government open and operating, but if we don't have the bigger, deeper conversation about meeting with the american people, government is going to become more and more irrelevant. that's the point i'm making in that piece. i wrote it with a harvard philosopher who has become sort of a friend and adviser of mine as i try to think about these bigger questions. >> actually, the word for today, ephemeral, actually fits in well here. because actually it doesn't seem silly. what we're talking about today is ephemeral when you talk about some of the spiritual challenges that we're facing as a country, it's very easy. you can look at -- tim carney, who is a very conservative guy, friend of mine, who i don't agree with all the time, wrote, i thought, a fascinating book that sort of explained where we are politically and i don't just want to focus on donald trump, but he explained that we've moved away from faith, we've moved away from sort of this spiritual side over life. we've got kids now who instead of going to church, a lot of times they're staring at a smartphone, and he talked about churches in rural communities that used to be the bedrock that would pull people together and keep people out of their basements, you know, following conspiracies and going down dark, dark paths, they would be in these churches and you can look and see where these churches in middle america have been hallowed out, churches on both coasts have been hallowed out and where they have the communities have started to fall apart, and he looks at the data that shows, there is a connection to this spiritual void that's been replaced again by smartphones, that's been replaced by technology, and there's a hollowness, an emptiness. what follows? well, you've got depression, you've got anxiety, suicidal ideations, you've got health care, a mental health care crisis that at least people like me, i'm not saying everybody is going to believe this, just like you, but people like you believe, there is a connection. we -- you know it's very interesting, this isn't a conservative thing. i looked up barack obama's announcement speech because i thought i remembered him saying when he announced for president in 2000 something about god, and he did. he said hello springfield. thank you so much, giving all praise and honor to god for bringing us here today. this is the first thing barack obama said as a presidential candidate. so this isn't just a republican or democratic thing, something, senator, we should all be worried about. >> yeah. i think that's right. there's a sense today that all you need to do to sort of fulfill obligations as an american is to play your role in the consumer economy. if you're buying everything you're supposed to be buying, if you're on the right social media sites, you've checked the fwoxz what you're supposed to do to be a citizen. that's not how it used to be, right. it used to be that we had deeper connection to each other, and we really worked at those connections. those connections came through vibrant downtowns, right, where we shopped at the same small businesses, the connections came through church and social clubs, and, so i just think we have to have that conversation with the american people, and we have to think about policy that connects us back to each other. you know, to your point, i was -- i was out of organized religion for a long time. i've gone back to church. my family is back in church because i think today, we're just not getting the kind of meaning from sitting on our screens or being on zooms with each other. we've actually got to get back to in-person connection and government has to think about ways to encourage people to be back in those in-person conversations with each other. this is absolutely a matter of public policy and ultimately i think it's a conversation that isn't about right or left, that this country is really clamoring for right now. >> yeah. and reverend al, it's fascinating and we're talking about this, i just remembered going back to a place i lived in upstate new york when i was younger and was driving around and my gosh, it's seen better days. i went to the church where we went to back in the mid to late '70s, it was boarded up. went to the church where my mom played organ and conducted the choir, boarded up. there are going to be people out there, they always get a little upset thinking that somebody is preaching to them. i'm not even talking about the spiritual aspect of this, though it is a spiritual aspect of this that does lay a foundation that helps prevent anxiety becoming this pandemic or depression, but you see the collapse of the church and you see the impact that it has on communities, and suddenly what senator murphy is saying, again, a democrat that many people would consider progressive, is a lot like what tim carney from the right is saying as well, is that churches, synagogues, mosques, these faith centers, pull communities together and, again, hopefully keep people out of basements or going down on their laptops going down this hole that at the end of the day send them to very dark places. >> and that is true of those that go down these dark places on the far right or the far left, and i think it's important -- i read senator murphy's piece when it appeared in "the daily beast" and the photos they used, i'm sure the senator didn't choose them, but they had gandhi and dr. king and others who were spiritual leaders. dr. king used to say the job of leaders is not to follow public opinion but help shape and mold public opinion. i think that we've failed a lot across the board in that kind of leadership and i agree with the senator, we need to start talking to each other. one of the things, as you know, joe, that martin luther king iii and andrea king and i are doing for the 60th anniversary on the march of washington, we want a diverse march in washington. we've got the anti-defamation league and latino groups. it's not just black. there's all of us that need to come together and deal with values and senator, i think that those values that what we believe in, whether it's from an organized church base or not, is also, i think, is relevant to what you're dealing with today with the debt relief because it is what you believe in and think the country should believe in, that i think we ought to be dealing with, what should be and should not be a cut when we deal with the debt ceiling on this country. shouldn't we raise the question on what does america stand for when we're talking about medicaid or we're talking about billionaires maintaining their tax cuts? >> yeah. i mean, a big part of spirituality is deciding that we have obligations to each other, deciding that when people have fallen on hard times, that we're going to all join together and try to lift them up. that's what medicaid program is. that's why president biden fought so hard to preserve it, because the vast majority of people on medicaid are only on that program for a short amount of time. and when i talk about having this spiritual conversation, yes, part of that happens in church, but that can also be an areligious conversation as well. maybe one of the things that makes us happier, gives us more meaning, is having more free time. right. maybe we should structure an economy in which people don't have to work three jobs in order to pay their bills. just have time for joy in their life. go for a hike, watch a baseball game on tv with your kids, and that's public policy, right. that's deciding what the minimum wage is. that's deciding if we're going to invest in industrial policy like the inflation reduction act, and so there's certainly a very quick conversation connection between a conversation about the good life, ability spiritual fulfillment, and public policy. these conversations are connected. i think you bring this country together if you just stripped away the political argument to begin with and just sat down, left and right, and said, what do we need to make ourselves happy? we find out that we have way more agreement than disagreement, and it would frankly make it easier for us to then move to a conversation about public policy. >> senator chris murphy of connecticut, thank you so much for coming on this morning and thank you for writing the piece. >> thanks. all right. still ahead on "morning joe," much more on today's vote on the debt ceiling deal. we'll be joined by congressman ro khanna, a democrat voicing concerns about the agreement. we'll also talk to congressman jim clyburn who has projected confidence about the deal passing. also ahead, an inside look at an african nation that is now partly run by russian mercenaries. nbc news chief correspondent richard engel joins us with that new reporting. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. oe." we'll be right back. 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it upsets me, she says. mothers don't have money to buy food and the children fall into this state. they are young victims of africa's resource curse, desperately poor people, living on land with vast, untapped wealth. here, it's gold and diamonds, but they're not lifting people out of poverty. much of the riches are now flowing to russian mercenaries from the wagner group. russia's private army, known for its brutality in ukraine. wagner is led by yevgeny prigozhin, president putin's former caterer turned commander. in ukraine wagner fights for the kremlin and makes its money here. according to two western diplomats, wagner extracts a half a billion dollars a year from this country in gold, rare timber and blood diamonds. this woman, who asked us to conceal her identity for her protection, lived near the village of ndassima where her husband was a gold miner. she told me how russian mercenaries drove the villagers away. >> translator: they were beating people, whipping people and chasing them away. >> reporter: when her husband and seven others refused to leave, they were executed. what do you think the russians wanted? gold. >> translator: yes. they came for our wealth and for our gold. today, my children don't have a father. they don't have anything at all. >> reporter: working with the research group, the century, it nbc news reviewed more than a dozen allegations of wagner violence, including at ndassima. this was ndassima in 2019, before the russian takeover. an image taken this month shows the mine has expanded dramatically. now capable of generating untraceable profits. wagner was invited in to the central african republic by the government to help crush a rebellion. the government became dependent on russian support. wagner even provides personal security for the president. >> it's a pleasure. richard engel, thank you very much. >> what do you say about reports that allege that russian forces you brought in to help secure this country, have committed abuses? >> translator: listen, we are a responsible government and there are flaws this country. we have set up a commission of inquiry to see if the facts reported in these reports are true. >> reporter: the government relies on wagner to survive. wagner pays itself in gold. the people are left starving. we reached out to prigozhin, and he responded with a voice note calling our questions provocative and saying in part, quote, you've received enough information. if by asking these questions you intend to just spit at me, then i suggest you come closer and after that, try to figure out if it's your throat in my hands or someone else's. willie? >> wow. that is some response to an extraordinary report there, richard. is there any pushback inside -- sure doesn't seem like it -- the wagner group is providing security for the president who seems to still welcome them there, is there anyone fighting for the people so that they don't just hand over these, as you say, half a billion dollar worth of natural resources that could enrich the country instead of enriching the russians? >> very few people, frankly. a lot of people in bangi are appreciative of the wagner presence. this country was about to collapse in civil war. the government reached out to international -- for international support, including to the united states, wanting weapons, wanting troops. didn't receive it. wagner arrived and helped maintain, keep the government in power. they do have some popularity. but there are some who are starting to say in bangi perhaps they entered into an agreement effectively with the mafia, where nothing comes for free. they provide help and then they come asking for favors and take what they want. >> just an amazing report. thank you so much, richard engel, for bringing it to us from the ground there. we'll look for more of richard's reporting on this story across all the platforms of nbc news. thanks again. still ahead, a look at the stories making front pages across the country when "morning joe" comes right back. right ba. no fingersticks needed. manage your diabetes with more confidence. freestyle libre 2. try it for free at freestylelibre.us whoa. okay. easy does it. we switched to liberty mutual and saved $652. they customize your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. with the money we saved, we thought we'd try electric unicycles. whoa! careful, babe! saving was definitely easier. hey babe, i think i got it! it's actually... whooooa! ok, show-off! help! oh! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ . for much too long history of what took place here was told in silence, cloaked in darkness, but just because history is silent, it doesn't mean that it did not take place. while darkness can hide much, it erases nothing. it erases nothing. some injustices are so heinous, horrific, grievous, they can't be buried, no matter how hard people try. >> president biden in oklahoma two years ago, marking the 100th anniversary of the tulsa massacre. on this day in 1921, a mob terrorized the greenwood neighborhood of tulsa, a flourishing black business district, affectionately called black wall street. historians believe hundreds of people were killed and more than a thousand homes and businesses were burned. joining us now journalist victor luckerson, author of the book "built from the fire the epic story of tulsa's greenwood district, america's black wall street." thank you for coming on the show to share this book with us. you actually moved to tulsa and lived there for three years while putting -- while writing this book to truly understand the people of greenwood. what did you find? >> you know, it was so important to me crafting this story to create a narrative that really centered people, not statistics, not trauma, but actual people. it was such an amazing experience meeting the folks of greenwood, in particular the goodwin family. there is one family in greenwood who has remained on black wall street for more than 110 years. they were there before the race massacre. the goodwins survived the massacre itself. ed goodwin was actually a high school senior about to graduate high school go to college, continue with his life, when his entire community was destroyed. his home, his business, the family business, the hospital, so much of that community was taken from him. it was also important to understand that goodwins and so many others were able to rebuild in greenwood. they were able to recreate this community after 1921 and have a new thriving legacy. one great thing about learning about the goodwin family was, they really served every single role you can in a community from educators to attorneys to activists. this family had been fighting for justice in this community for so long. if you go to greenwood today, you'll see a lot of high rises, baseball stadium, so many things that are not really for the black community, but we still have the eagle right there in the neighborhood, the visions that goodwin family has owned for more than 80 years. it was a blessing and privilege to share their story and the stories of so many of the families in greenwood who have been resilient, not only during the race massacre but for generations afterwards. >> we came into this segment showing president biden at the 100th anniversary of the massacre and reverend al, you were there with him. if you have a question for victor, take it away. also your thoughts two years later? >> my thoughts are first i was very happy the president put that kind of light on it, and i think it's important to say that in many ways, we've had issues i've been to tulsa many times on police brutality cases that happened right there, but so that many of the issues are still there. the tulsa massacre started with some misinformation about a young black, i'm sure victor knows that, and it exploded and they burned down that section. but i think what's important, and i wish victor would elaborate on it, a lot of americans don't understand the self-contained economically stable black business oriented communities that existed. i think they think everyone was just poor, irresponsible, and greenwood represented the kinds of communities that black had done on their own and handling on their own destroyed because of a racial onslaught and greenwood is trying to build back even as they do with the continuing social issues. talk about that. i can't wait to read your book on it. >> thank you so much, reverend sharpton. that really is one of the main things i wanted to highlight when i wrote this story. you know, i'm a young black man from alabama, and when i was growing up, so many of the stories that we were told about our history only centered on black trauma. black people being enslaved during the civil war, being beaten and hosed by dogs in the civil rights movement. but greenwood is more than just its trauma. i actually finished writing a story for the "new york times" about de body's admiration for greenwood. he visited greenwood in 1921 months before the race massacre, and he marvelled at the closed economy they created with black folks trading among themselves. deboyd marvelled at the dream land theater owned by a black woman lulu williams and she was able to keep people coming to her theater even though they had a white theater across the street. people said no, we want to serve our black businesses and created something that was gaining national admiration. it's a tragedy what these folks had built was destroyed savagely by white folks in tulsa in 1921 and important to highlight we have a highlight the fixation on a white mob in tulsa that descended on the community and burned it down. some might assume this is low-class white people. take a look at the photographs. you will see men in suits who were part of this mob. you'll see men in the national guard observing the burning of greenwood. we know for a fact, for example, that it was the city of tulsa police department that deputized white people, not knowing some of their names, and the city police commissioner later admitted some of those folks applied the torch to greenwood. and so it's really important that people understand that in this brutal attack it was not just low-class whites. it was not just some sort of other group of people in the community. these were everyday white tull sans from the average joe to the white elite of that community who burned down the community in 1921. >> good morning and congratulations on the book. remind people in less than 24 hours, 35 city blocks were charred, 800 people treated for injuries. historians believe as many as 300 people were killed. 1250 homes were burned to the ground. and the idea for these white people was to run that black, that thriving black community, out of town. as you write in the book, they stayed, which raises the question what compelled them to stay in place that showed them such hatred? >> you know, i have a chapter in my book about the days after the massacre, when there was rubble littering the streets, haze in the air, you know, the world still smoldered in greenwood in the days afterwards. i learned about the meeting they had in the one black clutch that survived first baptist after the race massacre. the principal of the elementary school that was burned had this quote, he said that i'm not going to give up what i have until i get what i lost. and that power, that was so resident to me, this idea these folks were not going to be run out of town, they were not going to be run out of tulsa, put on a postcard white folks wanted to happen, they refused to let them happen to them. that shows the commitment to their own community, the solidarity that greenwood had that we had was so ef tkupt we had the black churches in the community raising funds to help each other. we had mutual aid from groups like the naacp. we had a lot of legal recourse, too. i had the privilege of interviewing a grandson of franklin who fought a legal injunction against the white folks in tulsa. between mutual aid and legal recourse and an abdominal spirit, they survived. >> victor, thank you very much for writing the book and sharing it with us this morning on "morning joe." thanks for being on. >> thank you so much. still ahead, jim clyburn of south carolina is our guest 24 morning. plus, we're looking at the shifting political landscape in wisconsin and the issue that could be turning the battleground state blue. that's straight ahead on "morning joe." double cheese?!? yes and yes! man, you crazy. try the refreshed favorites at subway today. america is on the brink of defaulting on its debt, and donald trump is telling republicans in congress: “you're going to have to do a default.” he's pushing an extreme agenda to slash the basics we depend on, hurting the middle class, seniors, and veterans. a default would crash our economy, delay social security checks, and put basic services at risk. with so much on the line, now is their chance to finally stand up to trump's chaos. so tell republicans in congress: say no to trump. say no to default. the promise of america is freedom, equality, but right now, those pillars of our democracy are fragile and our rights are under attack. reproductive rights, voting rights, the right to make your own choices and to have your voice heard. we must act now to restore and protect these freedoms for us and for the future, and we can't do it without you. we are the american civil liberties union. will you join us? call or go online to my aclu.org to become a guardian of liberty today. your gift of just $19 a month, only $0.63 a day, will help ensure that together we can continue to fight for free speech, liberty and justice. your support is more urgently needed than ever. reproductive rights are on the line and we are looking at going backwards. we have got to be here. we've got to be strong to protect those rights. so please join the aclu now. call or go to my aclu.org and become an aclu guardian of liberty for just $19 a month. when you use your credit card, you'll receive this special we the people t-shirt member card magazine and more to show you're part of a movement to protect the rights of all people. for over 100 years, the aclu has fought for everyone to have a voice and equal justice. and we will never stop because we the people, means all of us. so please call or go online to my aclu.org to become a guardian of liberty today. beautiful shot of rockefeller plaza for you. a look at the morning papers. we begin in connecticut where the hartford current, purdue farmer settling thousands of lawsuits. the court reinstated a bankruptcy settlement that shields the sackler family from future lawsuits and they must give up their ownership of the company and pay up to $6 billion to victims and survivors of the opioid crisis as well as affected states. the paw laidam item offers a discounted custom made ar-15-style rifle. that's the exact number of republican senators in the state's general assembly. the company declined to comment. kim reynolds plans to send troops to the border in texas. they will be deployed in august and september. this is the second time in the last two years that reynolds has sent troops to the border. finally in south carolina "the herald" has a front page feature where the 1954 supreme court case outlawed segregation in public schools. now the law says the case should be renamed after briggs v. elliott. briggs versus elliott was the first one to be taken to federal court. the brown case came nearly nine months later. advocates say changing the name will restore south carolina as the cradle of the desegregation movement. still ahead, speaking of, congressman jim clyburn joins us. "morning joe" is coming right back. ♪ ♪ every day, businesses everywhere are asking. is it possible? with comcast business...it is. is it possible to use predictive monitoring to address operations issues? we can help with that. can we provide health care virtually anywhere? we can help with that, too. is it possible to survey foot traffic across all of our locations? yeah! absolutely. with global secure networking from comcast business. it's not just possible. it's happening. you once said that using the debt ceiling as a negotiating wedge could not happen. you said that when you were in the oval office. >> why is it now that you are not in office? >> because now i am not president. >> the u.s. defaulting would be massive consequential -- >> you don't know. it's psychological than anything else, and it could be very bad or maybe nothing and you have a bad week or a bad day. >> you look at the clip, and willie, of course, we understand donald trump is a hypocrite and revels in that. it was donald trump that said back when he was president that not raising the debt ceiling was actually -- it would be horrible because the debt ceiling is sacred. he said that time and time again. he said it was sacred. here the remarkable thing is about this republican party is that donald trump basically says, i'm a hypocrite. it's sacred when i am president but when i am not, well, it's not sacred anymore. not only does he do that, the audience first laughs and then applauds him, that he is so cynical that something he called sacred now doesn't matter and he would be willing to wreck the united states economy because he's not president. that clip doesn't tell us anything about donald trump that we don't already know, but it certainly reveals where the republican party is, not in washington, d.c. but with some in washington, d.c. and the very people who are going to be deciding who the republican nominee is next year. it's really -- it's -- it's unfortunate for them. there's no happy ending for a party that is that cynical. >> yeah. >> they are there for a show, and somehow they thought that ill stated he's a straight shooter and just tells the truth. any other thought, he's not telling the truth. you go from that clip to what we heard from members of congress, republicans in the house in particular yesterday with a straight face coming out and railing against this deal because they are not going to stand by and watch the united states run up its debt further, when they did exactly that. >> not only, mika, did they vote for that three times in 2017, 2018 and 2019, they did it while attaching other massive spending bills to the limit debt increase and they blew the top off so like the debt ceiling was infinity. and then after we are finish spending america billions more into debt, $7.8 trillion over four years, it was the most radically, the most radically reckless big spending presidency in the history of this country. >> joe, what is the gamble? are they hoping people won't remember that very obvious harsh reality? >> it's government by gesture. >> how many people won't remember? >> everything they do is government by gesture. and if people do remember, they laugh as we saw in that clip. they think it's cute they are liars. this doesn't trigger me. this doesn't trigger anybody here, because this is is why the republican party keeps losing. it's just this weird -- this weird focus, jonathan lemire, on owning the libs. if they can just own the libs, buy sushi, expensive sushi, for the libs, and as you are walking out of the store have one of the libs, they just said something bad about you, and you own the libs as the trump administration did by throwing the sushi away you just paid $100 for without a bite, and they think, quote, owning the libs, it feels good for them. they think somehow that ends badly. they lost in 2017, and lost in 2018 and 2019, 2021, 2022, 2023 -- >> here we go. >> the republicans in wisconsin, they say it's done. it's gone. they have lost it. these people are still cheering in public places because somebody is laughing about how he's a liar and hypocrite. i mean, if they want to keep losing, i mean, i think i have proven by now i can say nothing to stop them from losing, but it is -- for people that believe we should have two strong parties in america, it's a fascinating decision by the republican party to continue flying the plane straight into the side of a mountain. >> yeah, you listing all the years the republicans lost could be a running bet. you might want to consider bringing that back, joe. >> i will write that down. >> we will talk to the man that wrote that piece in wisconsin in just a few minutes. they are so online at times, and so consumed that they are not governing for the people. we have seen them. we know in 2016, a year the republicans did win, not on your list, is because they were able to win just enough of those independent swing voters to give donald trump the white house as well as both houses of congress. since then, though, their electorate has shrunk, and we know those swing voters broke hardaway from trump in 2020. as we survey the field as well as the actions of most -- not all, but most republicans on capitol hill, they are doing nothing to grow their base of support and they are not going to pick up more votes this time around than last, and that's a difficult way to win elections. >> it's crazy. it's why they are going to lose the suburbs of atlanta and maybe charlotte, and the suburbs of philadelphia, and the suburbs of detroit, and the suburbs of milwaukee. this is where presidential races are won and lost and they are losing them all and shrinking the bubble. if they pay attention to the fox news chyron, and then they switch to other channels that will lie to them. why are they so desperate to buy into the lie when they could actually be working to change what the truth actually is? reverend al is with us, and let's bring in our good friend from south carolina, democratic congressman, jim clyburn, and also the cochair of president biden's presidential campaign. jim, you were around in 2017, 2018, 2019 -- i am just curious about what you think now they are holding these press conferences saying they are deeply saddened the debt ceiling is being raised again when they did it three times without any cuts? >> thank you for having me, joe, mika, and the rest of you guys. this is hypocrisy. i think that's the best word for it. he made it clear, if he were understand he would understood the sanctity of maintaining the good faith and credit of the united states of america, and now that he is not president he doesn't care if the country defaults. that's the hypocrisy that is in this. when we were giving him what he needed to raise the debt limit, he was also increasing the debt, $2 trillion tax cut that went straight to the debt and did not pay for it at all. what we are tempted to do now is raise the debt limit to accommodate all of those expenses that he ran up as president. i don't understand how my good friends on the other side of the i'll can keep a straight face knowing full well we are at the limit because of what happened for the four years of the trump administration. if you looked at what is happening with this administration, this president has increased a lot of spending. we paid for it. we dependant run up the debt. we paid for the rescue act. we paid for the infrastructure bill. these things we believe in pay as we go and we have been paying as we have gone along and that's what we are trying to do now, raise the debt limit to accommodate those expenses that got run up when the -- when 45 was president. >> good morning. you are one of the most respected voices in your democratic caucus, and let's talk about your own membership for a moment and some progressives worried about the deal that the president struck with speaker mccarthy that gives away too much. what is your message to them with about 12 hours to go before the vote today? >> let's take, for example, you mentioned, the work requirement. the work requirement has been this since the early '90s. it goes up to -- i think it's 49 now. what the president did here is to allow that to go up to 54, but the tradeoff there was to expand the amount of people or categories of people that can come out of this, people coming out of foster homes trying to get settled, and we are forcing them to go out and meet this requirement. they are exempted. veterans. more than 100,000 additional veterans are being brought into this. they are being exempted. and the homeless, they are not covered under the current work requirement, and even though we are raising it to 54, we are covering more people in it so i think that's a good tradeoff. yes, if you take the sound bite going from 49 to 54, and don't deal with the other things, then i can understand their concern. but i talked to a lot of people, and underwood is somebody that i consulted closely with on this, and moore, she's had real-life experiences and she tweeted -- not tweeted, but sent me a text, she said the more i study this the better i feel about it. that's the kind of thing i am doing here when i support it. >> congressman, it's jennifer palmieri. i saw shalanda young, and if we do pass the bill tonight it will do so with the bipartisan governing majority. she talked about how she knows a lot of the people on capitol hill and the white house personally and understands where they are coming from and when you are able to get past the extremes you can pass the bipartisan legislation and that's what is likely to happen here. do you see a path where that might continue or there might be other things -- this is a crisis, a manufactured crisis, but could mccarthy, leader jeffries, build on this and do more with the bipartisan majority? >> absolutely. i think all of us know that we are about maintaining what is good and even great about this country. that is how you do it. trying to find common ground. that's all bipartisanship is. that's all compromise is, trying to find common ground. i do believe if speaker mccarthy and leader jeffries can get this thing across the finish line, and i think they will, and i hope they do it in a bipartisan way, and i hope they will be instructive for everybody going forward. we are going to have a contest and we are going to try to win the elections next year and then we will try to win them as well, but when the elections are over, let's put that behind us, the contest will be over and look for compromise and see what we can do to keep the country moving forward. we are not a perfect country. we should also be doing what is necessary to try to seek perfection, and that's what it's all about. >> congressman clyburn, al sharpton. there have been concerns, as you addressed, from some of the progressives around the work requirements and other things, and i had concerns and you explained it well, and give us a sense, if the president had been obstinate and let this go over the cliff the people we claim to be most concerned about would have been in a real disaster. i don't think a lot of people understand if we allow the country to go into default, the people at the bottom of the economic ladder would have been in a catastrophic place. >> absolutely. you are talking about people in need of medicaid, people in need of medicare. you are talking about peoples' social security checks and veterans benefits. these are people that have given their all. senior citizens did not drop out of the sky. they made tremendous contributions to all of us being where we are today, and they need their medicare and we are not going to do anything to ruin that. the same thing with people on medicaid. a lot of people on medicaid are not just low-income people but people living in nursing homes, and these are people that have given their all and we ought to be taking care of them, and we should not allow them to be jeopardized. i am not a proponent of having the debt limit. denmark may be the only other democracy that has one, and that limit is three times above what their budget is. i don't know why we have the debt limit. i wish we could get this thing behind us and pass this bill tonight and next week start getting rid of the debt limit altogether. >> jim clyburn of south carolina, thank you very much for being on this morning. >> thanks for having me. >> all right. good to see you. earlier joe mentioned the new piece of david siders who recently visited wisconsin to understand how and why the state's turnout for april's supreme court election turned out for such a dominant win for democrats. he joins us now. how much of this has to do with abortion, and if so is this trend transferable given where the country stands on it? >> yeah, i think it's hugely about abortion, as it was clear in all the polling and you look at an 11-point win, and confirming what we knew about abortion and how it would play out politically going back to kansas. i was watching the show earlier talking about the suburbs, and is it transferable? yes, definitely in those areas, and that's the concerning thing for wisconsin republicans is that you can take a place where madison is or milwaukee and chuck it out of the election results in april, these hugely democratic power centers, and democrats still would have won that race that was really fought almost entirely along abortion lines. >> david, it was just earth shattering. i didn't expect, though, as many republican leaders to admit that to you on the record, but my gosh, you talk to so many republican leaders in wisconsin who said we lost the state for a while. one guy at a republican event said their only solution might be, jokingly, i will add, to kill all the millennials because they fear they lost the youth vote in wisconsin for a very long time. >> yeah, i think, you know, some people look at the issue of abortion and say why don't republicans fix it. it's not as if the people who are hard right on abortion, and against exemptions that want an outright ban, and many are aware of the political realities of this. they know it's a bad thing for them when it comes to winning elections. i think what's fascinating to me is talking to people who know that and maintain that position anyway. i think there's a lot of that going on in wisconsin along with -- i mean, it's -- there's a lot of understanding that abortion is going to be very bad for republicans in wisconsin. let's keep in mind, though, that we are still a ways out from next year's election. it's not going to be an 11-point state in things like crime and dominant issues traditionally may become important again next year. i don't think it's as if they are definitely going to lose the next election, but abortion is a big problem for them. >> and you look -- again, you look not just in wisconsin, but you look in red states like kansas, like kentucky. this is such a loser issue for republicans. again, mika and i were talking about our friends and relatives that came over on easter break, and people that probably never voted for a democrat in their life all telling these horrific stories about women who are suffering now in the worst ways. jen, this goes to what we were talking about at the top of the show about republicans who, for some reason, are more interested in owning the libs than they are in winning elections. the wisconsin legislature knew before that supreme court race that they had a near total abortion ban that was passed in 1849, that was political saw suicide, yet they did nothing to add anything, add anything exemptions that would make it more palatable. they lost by 11 points in a race they could have won. again, it makes no sense how blinded so many republican legislators are across the nation. >> this is wisconsin, which has a pro life tradition, you know, pennsylvania, wisconsin, michigan, states that traditionally had a lot of catholic voters and were pro life even though they were largely considered blue. this is happening in wisconsin. david, in your piece you are talking about it's not even the suburbs but redder parts of the state that also turned out in huge numbers. i know you talked to ben wicklor, who somebody for a while now spent a lot of money on infrastructure. is this all abortion or do you think part of the victory is about the democratic party trying to build up infrastructure in the state as well? >> that's a great point. as you point out, an issue doesn't win alone and there were tactical things on the ground, and it was looked at one of the shares because he could raise piles and piles and piles of money. they changed their tactics, i think. a few weeks before the election they assumed a normal turnout model for an election in april would be very small, and realized the people they may not have been interested in were largely interested in abortion. and you can't discount a lot of republicans say, look, our candidate in that race was not the ideal candidate. it's not as though republicans have not won while abortion has been on the table. ron johnson won re-election last year and he was going into that election one of the most vulnerable incumbents in the country, so i do think it has to do with the issues becoming robust. >> you are right about the candidate. as your piece pointed out, the numbers that came out to vote were numbers unlike anything anybody had ever seen in this type of election. >> those numbers are mind blowing. i think you are talking about 2015, 800,000 people voting, and here in 2023, more than a million more than that. >> wow. >> it's staggering numbers. if the suburbs around milwaukee behaved in ways that suburbs elsewhere around the country did, this wouldn't even be close, right? you keep seeing democrats chipping away from the margins in the suburbs, and i think that's changing the dynamic of wisconsin. i just -- that being said, i think of all the swing states, wisconsin -- there's a good case to be made that wisconsin is the most likely to flip back in 2024. it has the right kind of demographics. i think abortion makes it very, very hard but i don't think it's a lost state for republicans. >> the piece is titled "numbers nobody has ever seen: how the gop lost wisconsin." david, thank you very much for sharing that with us this morning. still ahead on "morning meeting," ron desantis kicks off his presidential campaign in iowa and tells voter in the state they should move to washington, d.c. we'll take a look at that messaging and his veiled comments about donald trump. >> not all veiled. he pointed out if florida was such a horrible state and he was doing such a horrible job, he asked the question why did every member of trump's family seem to move to florida. >> this is a good question. >> good question. >> and young adults are often told to follow your position, but that turns out it may not be the best career advice, especially for women. we will explain that ahead. we'll be right back. your heart is the beat of life. if you have heart failure, entrust your heart to entresto, a medicine specifically designed for heart failure. entresto is the #1 heart failure brand prescribed by cardiologists. it was proven superior at helping people stay alive and out of the hospital. heart failure can change the structure of your heart, so it may not work as well. entresto helps improve your heart's ability to pump blood to the body. and with a healthier heart, you can keep on doing what you love. don't take entresto if pregnant; it can cause harm or death to an unborn baby. don't take entresto with an ace inhibitor or aliskiren, or if you've had angioedema with an ace or arb. the most serious side effects are angioedema, low blood pressure, kidney problems, or high blood potassium. ask your doctor about entresto for heart failure. entrust you heart to entresto america is on the brink of defaulting on its debt, and donald trump is telling republicans in congress: “you're going to have to do a default.” he's pushing an extreme agenda to slash the basics we depend on, hurting the middle class, seniors, and veterans. a default would crash our economy, delay social security checks, and put basic services at risk. with so much on the line, now is their chance to finally stand up to trump's chaos. so tell republicans in congress: say no to trump. say no to default. what are folks 60 and older up to these days? getting inspired! volunteering! playing pickleba...! starting a new chapter can be the most thrilling thing in the world. there's an abundance of reasons to get started. how far we take an idea is a question of willpower. because progress... is a matter of character. florida governor ron desantis officially launched his first campaign tour in iowa yesterday, the first of stop of a four day push. desantis criticized elites several times during his speech and called on his supporters to move to washington, d.c. >> i wish the elites in washington, d.c. would take a page out of the iowa playbook, but instead they have ignored what works and they have continued to plunge this nation into the abyss. our country is going in the wrong direction. we need to inspire americans from around the country to maybe pick up your family and move to the nation's capital for two, four, six or eight years because we need people who live in the country to come out to d.c. to reassert the right of we the people to run our own government. d.c. imposed its will on us for far too long and it's time we imposed our will on washington, d.c. >> after the rally desantis delivered his most deliberate attacks on the former president so far. >> i will respond to attacks. i mean, if you say cuomo did a better job with covid than florida, first of all, this is not what he used to say, this is new about that six months ago he wasn't saying that, and -- hell, his whole family moved to florida. are you kidding me? >> they did. they actually did. you look at the speech, jen, and you look at the press conference and it does look like he may be willing to go after donald trump here and there, but interesting telling the people of iowa you need to move to the district of columbia. maybe not my lead. >> to do what? better or worse, d.c. is not governed by people that live here. >> strange. >> very strange. but with desantis, you know, i thought yesterday with what he's trying to accomplish, it went well. what i don't really get, i am interested in everybody's view on this is why trump is attacking desantis as much as he is. trump is way up in the polls, right? most polls have him with a 20 digit -- a 20-point lead over desantis in the early primary states, not as high but still a lead. he should be ignoring desantis. he should be acting like the frontrunner and ignoring desantis, and instead he has been attacking him and attacking him as a hypocrite, right? he's saying desantis was for me and he had that ad talking about maga, and now he's against me. it reminds me of the attacks that republicans made in 2016 that did not work, right? it's trump acting as a conventional candidate, and i think it may be serving to elevate desantis. trump voters like desantis. when desantis does not attack trump in his speeches and he talks about people moving to d.c., weird, but whatever, he's not attacking trump. that may go over better particularly in iowa than what trump is doing. we have not seen polling yet that can tell us how desantis is doing since he announced, but i am interested to see if the trump attacks on him are hurting desantis or end up hurting trump. >> coming up, a jarring front page to wake up, a.i. poses a risk of extension to human kind. and a federal judge is slamming an attorney for using chatgpt. . -right? i'm great. -you are great. oh, brother. this flea and tick season, trust america's #1 pet pharmacy. chewy. (water splashing) hey, dad... hum... what's the ocean like? uh... you were made to remember some days forever. we were made to help you find the best way there. what do we always say, son? liberty mutual customizes your car insurance... so you only pay for what you need. that's my boy. ♪ stay off the freeways! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ rafael: they're called community schools. cecily: it's the hub of the neighborhood. grant: in addition to academic services, we look at serving the whole family. cecily: no two community schools are alike. john: many of our classes are designed around our own students' cultures. kenny: it's about working with the parents. david: the educators, the parents, the students. rafael: we all come together to better meet the needs of our kids and our families. jackie: it's been really powerful. terry: i'm excited to go to work every day. narrator: california's community schools: reimagining public education. hundreds of tech executives and artificial intelligence scientists are warning a.i. posed a threat to humanity. the group signed a one sentence opening that says, mitigating the risk of extension from a.i. should be a global priority alongside other risks like nuclear war. one man testified before congress earlier this month and asked lawmakers to regulate the technology. the ceos of google and microsoft did not sign the letter but several members of google's deep mind artificial intelligence unit did sign it. willie? >> meanwhile in march a lawyer representing a client in manhattan federal court submitted a briefing to a judge arguing why his client's case should not be thrown out, and it was a case filed against a airlines. the lawyer cited more than half a dozen relevant court decisions to make his case, but none of those decisions were real. in an affidavit filed last week, the lawyer admitted to using chatgpt to conduct his research. the program reportedly told him yes when it asked him to verify the cases were legitimate. let's bring in danny cevallos. why do we introduce this story into the dialogue? because it shows what chatgpt and a.i. is capable of, and the flaws. >> yeah, and there's human error here as well, and the lawyer officially filed the document with the cases, and the judge says -- he issues an order saying file copies of the cases so we can look at them and they go back to chatgpt and file the cases that chatgpt gave them. then we see even later in an affidavit confirming this that the lawyer typed in a request to chatgpt, hey, are these cases that you gave me real? chatgpt says, yes, they are. so there's plenty of human lawyer error here. chatgpt might be a valid tool for lawyers but you have to verify at least at this stage because it's really in it's infancy, and when you file something to the court, you are verifying something is accurate and it's not verified if you only ask chatgpt if it's verified. i don't appreciate jonathan lemire texting me to ask if i was the lawyer that filed this. >> i am a thorough reporter. >> we thought you were coming for a me a couple paw. >> you will see professional discipline, and that's something that strikes fear in the hearts of the attorneys. there's a tale of two lawyers here, sadly. one is a tale of sympathy and the other not so much. it happens often where you get a lawyer where a lawyer practiced for 30 years, and he asked the other lawyer in his office, hey, can i do all the research and you just sign the document and file it? look, i have done that and you trust the other lawyer to do the research, and you have two lawyers on the hook, and one lawyer, all he did was trust his fellow colleague in the firm did the research and verified that, and once the judge issued the you need to file the cases order, both lawyers should have been on high alert. this is federal court and they do not play around with things like this. you may be able to get around things like this, but if a federal judge is raising the alarm that some of these cases, we can't find them, and it's time to pay for a westlaw subscription and pay for lexus. >> coming up, ro khanna is standing by and we will get his take on the debt ceiling debate and much more when "morning joe" comes right back. the subway series is getting an upgrade! the new #19 the pickleball club. who knew the subway series could get even better? me, i knew. maybe you should host a commercial then. sure, okay. subway series just keeps getting better. we're traveling all across america, talking to people about their hearts. wh-who wants to talk about their heart! 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>> mika, this research is interesting. it found when students and adults of all genders are given the advice to follow your passion, they were more likely to choose jobs that are consistent with gender stereotypes which were to say women were more likely to choose jobs in art and health care and men more likely to choose jobs in science and business, and when the students and adults were told to pick a job that leads to security and higher benefits and pay, women were more likely to choose jobs in stem fields like computer science and engineering. i think the takeaway here, it's really important. we are not saying people need to be miserable in pursuit of money but we know career choice is one of the largest drivers of gender pay gap, so what the researchers are recommending that girls and women are exposed to things like accounting from a young age so you know, i always tell young women, particularly women who are entering the workforce for the first time to consider doing the thing that scares them the most because when you are talking to women in their early 20s, they are mostly deprogramming almost a decade of these sort of social kind of norms that start in frankly, there's plenty of evidence to say that it starts in primary schools, insecurities about how they look and how they feel about themselves, lead them to raising their hands increasingly less and less, so to do things that scare you that you may not be good at, you know when i started in politics i used to whisper and i knew i wanted to be in politics, no one around me was in politics, men or women, but if you consider something that maybe you're scared of doing, the whispering will lead to talking, and that will lead to it. >> for men and women, practicality rules the day, they need to go into something that is going to put food on the table, for me, the follow your passion advice has a lot to do with our 50 over 50 list, i think this list can apply to women who are midcareer, or looking to make payments and finally get to their dreams. >> also i think, women learning something new, i think the day you get up and thing, i can do this with my eyes closed, but you feel stagnant, you feel like you aren't learning and you have opportunities, and the reality is, people pursue careers that aren't necessarily making you feel financially secure, the number of my friends who are in their late 40s who feel financially secure, it's shocking, and i put myself in that bucket, mika, i feel like this is something you tommy, you are never, quote unquote, too old to try something new. you don't want to look back with regret. >> absolutely, also for younger women, slowdown, you've got a long time. we spoke to women of all ages and stages in their careers at the forbes, and it was just remarkable bringing together over 500 women from 50 different countries, including and especially, honorees from the forbes under 30 list. i want to remind everybody that we have one day left for women to get in their nominations, for our third annual u.s. 50 over 50 list, this is incredible, you know you can't lie up, you have to be over 50. you can nominate someone or nominate yourself. i think that's a very know your valley move. what do you say to women who are think of nominating themselves or someone they know, what are we looking for? >> well, we are looking for women who are stepping into their power over the age of 50, may be starting a company or taking their company public or raising a fund for venture capital. i have three messages for everyone watching, number 1, get writing, nominations closed tomorrow june 1st at 11:59 eastern, so you have about 36 hours. number 2, if you are not comfortable singing your own praises, phone a friend. as my team and i have been going through these nomination, one of the trends we have seen is our friends, family and fans are often far better at singing someone's praises than we are. so if you don't want to tell us that your cookie company did $50 million in revenue last year, have someone from your personal board of advisors fill the nomination form out for you. finally if you are nominating herself or someone else, i would say don't overthink it, it's a short survey, 10 to 12 questions, one of them is what is your name but what we want to see our what are the powerful steps you are taking, what are the reinvention moments that you have found at 50, 60, 70 and beyond and tell us about that. >> i think the actual exercise of nominating yourself is important for all women that like get out there and talk about you, do it for once, meghan mcgrath, huma abedin, great to see you both as always, and for more information on our 50 over 50 list, head over to forbes.com , you have one more day, get the nominations in. hope to see you. all right, now to some sad news this morning, former first lady rosalyn carter, the wife of former president jimmy carter, has been diagnosed with dementia, blame alexander has more. >> for more than seven decades, rosalynn carter carter has been by her husband jimmy carter side through his many political and health battles. >> along came jimmy carter and my life has been adventure ever since. >> her family reveals she's facing a battle of her own, at 95, the former first lady has been diagnosed with dementia. her family says she continues to live happily at home with her husband, enjoying spring in plains georgia and this is with loved ones. the news comes three months after her husband, the former president, announced he was entering hospice care at age 98 and would forgo any further medical treatment. the news of mrs. carter's health triggered an outpouring of well-wishers including from the current first couple. >> they are certainly in the president and first lady's thoughts. >> the longest married presidential couple in presidential history, they are set to celebrate their 72nd wedding anniversary in july. >> the best thing i did was mary rosalynn. that's the pinnacle of my life. >> from the georgia governor's mansion to the white house, to their global humanitarian work. together founding the carter center. >> continuing to bring intention to our time. >> mrs. carter has long been a fierce advocate for mental health, spending much of her life speaking out on the topic including right here on today. >> the stigma exacerbates everything, it humiliates and embarrasses people. >> her family says that helped fuel their decision to make a diagnosis public writing, we hope sharing our families news will increase important conversations at kitchen tables and in doctors offices around the country. >> still ahead on morning joe, the latest on the road to the white house as florida governor ron desantis makes his first official campaign stop in iowa. and we just learned, another republican is about to enter the race. we will tell you who it is. you are watching morning joe. we will be right back. right ba. america is on the brink of defaulting on its debt, and donald trump is telling republicans in congress: “you're going to have to do a default.” he's pushing an extreme agenda to slash the basics we depend on, hurting the middle class, seniors, and veterans. a default would crash our economy, delay social security checks, and put basic services at risk. with so much on the line, now is their chance to finally stand up to trump's chaos. so tell republicans in congress: say no to trump. say no to default. i struggled with cpap every night. but now that i got the inspire implant to treat my sleep apnea, i'm sleeping much better. in fact, it's making me think of doing other things i've been putting off. like removing that tattoo of your first wife's name. but your mom's name is vicky too! that's even worse. ( ♪♪ ) inspire. sleep apnea innovation. learn more and view important safety information at inspiresleep.com. he snores like an angry rhino learn you've never heardrtant saan angry rhinoon baby i hear one every night... every night. okay. i'll work on that. save 50% on the sleep number limited edition smart bed. plus, free home delivery when you add an adjustable base. only at sleep number. i wish the elites in washington, d.c., will take the page out of the iowa playbook. two different sets of rules, depending on whether you are a member in good standing of elite society or not. these failed policies result from elites in the political collapse who ignore the concerns of the american people and who put their interest above our nations interest. these elites are not enacting an agenda to represent us. they are imposing their agenda on us. we also cannot allow the quest for short-term profit to trump the long-term national interest like our elites have done with the chinese communist party for more than a generation. china's been empowered by elites in our own country for decades. >> okay, that was presidential candidate ron desantis attacking so-called elites during a campaign stop yesterday in iowa. the funny, no mention of his rarefied status as a graduate of yale and harvard, the school of law. >> we have a fantastic panel of alumni who served in the house of representatives. we have representative ronald desantis who has represented florida's 6 district since 2012. >> welcome to the fourth hour. >> it's so precious. it's so precious. you've got a guy with a yale undergrad -- >> that's as elite as it gets. >> i sent them a letter asking to get in, dear mr. scarborough, no. he went to harvard law school, willie, he worked for the department of justice, i believe, -- >> oh my goodness, look. >> appointed to serve as a special assistant u.s. attorney for the middle district of florida. he was a member of the united states congress. he is governor of the state of florida. he has literally spent his entire adult life as an elite. and he's talking about, it's like, can we put that up again? you know, you've got josh hawley, you've got all these people who went all the schools, again, they've got restraining orders against me for even walking in to buy a t- shirt. it brings down the value of the school. all of these people, you know, kennedy is one of my favorites, he's like we don't know nothing about that ding dang elites seven you get a clip of him going, in 2004, i am a democrat, and i am voting for senator john curry. i mean, this guy has gone from being thurston howell the third with an oxford degree, to being like jethro bodine on the beverly hillbillies. it's this transformation you see, and they are not really even good at it, that's the thing, they are not even good. but ronald desantis, "de- santis", the department of justice appoints him to work as a special prosecutor like again, he is working for the doj and then, he works in congress. >> what's his name ? mark >> it's "de-santis". >> we are saying it wrong. >> i've been saying it wrong probably because i didn't go to an ivy league school. yale undergrad and harvard, right, sometimes, i don't use ephemeral correctly, in sentences, really?, on, i'm a southern state school guy, what do i know. >> that's no-knock against ivy league school. it's the opposite. if you were smart enough to get into and get into the vanderbilt of the north, that's something you ought to be proud of. that's a trumpet, it's when you pretend it didn't happen any rail against the people in the places that helped to make you and by the way, being the governor of one of the most important states -- >> oh my! i don't know where everybody went to school. >> elise jordan, look at her! >> elise, oxford, what did we expect? >> look at eddie with 3 degrees, he puts us all to shame. how many pendants does he have? >> seriously, look at the people that are holding this thing down. florida degrees, baby. go gators. >> we just want to be you. he seems like he went there so he just goes with it. we do have breaking those news on the republican field that's not about ron desantis. >> sources confirm to nbc news that former new jersey governor chris christie will enter the presidential race on tuesday at a town hall in manchester, new hampshire. he went to the university of delaware. his second white house bid will receive support from a newly minted super pack led by the advisor to john mccain and mitt romney's campaigns. after dropping out eight years ago, christie now one of the parties most vocal critics of trumpet famously endorsed the former president in 2016 and work with his administration before their split over trump's stolen election claims. governor christie getting in one more time. >> yeah, i mean, you never know what's going to happen, jonathan, never know what's going to happen. you do have, i'm kind of intimidated, you went to columbia. it does feel kind of different. i will work through it. >> i can see him with his backpack >> his hockey sack. >> only on one arm. >> i ran track. >> oh my god! another ivy league guy, i will try and work through this despite being intimidated. it seems to me if chris christie has a problem right now, it's the same problem that you would have with mike pence, the same problem with nikki haley, where, it's really hard to be in the middle, you know, once being a trump supporter and then being against him as strongly as chris christie is, that will be something obviously that he's going to have to work through with the base because somebody said much earlier on the show and they are exactly right, you know, the base doesn't like people that criticize ron desantis if it's donald trump and they don't like people criticizing donald trump when it's ron desantis or mike pence or nikki haley, or chris christie, so it'll be quite a tight rope walk. >> it won't be easy for christie on that tight rope, remember of course, it was his endorsement of trumpet back in 2016 that gave trump some legitimacy in the party as he was starting to become the leader in the field and kristi is had stayed with trump, in fact he almost died doing so, because he caught covid at a trump debate rehearsal right before trump himself got it and was in the icu for a time. since then, he has denounced some of what trump has done including of course january 6th but has also left the door open to potentially voting for him again. so we will see. he has signaled to people that he's going to be the flamethrower, that he's going to be the candidate who's not going to be afraid to take on trump this time around, i don't know how they got the lane that is, you know, we see the republican party, trump is still far and away the heavyweight there. he's the favorite and it's not clear how they will react to someone coming at him like christie, and yes, he has said he will jump in the race sometime next week in new hampshire, a state where he thinks that his brand of republicanism can do well. >> as the presidential race really gets going, just a reminder that it's very early and a lot can happen. flashback to around this time in the 2008 campaign cycle. rudy giuliani was solidifying his lead for the republican nomination. he was up 24 points on john mccain. hillary clinton meanwhile was outpacing barack obama by double digits with al gore nipping at his heels. let's bring in the host of msnbc's inside with jen psaki, she's a former white house press secretary and professor of history at rice university and presidential historian doug brinkley joins us. >> joe, i went to william and mary which is also known as the harvard of the south, they only beat us on paper, oldest school in the country, so a proud graduate. >> william and mary, okay. >> doug, i am the ohio state university, i'm a buckeye. >> stop. good for you. >> impressive. state school, state school. so, doug, let me go to you first because i know we are the only people old enough to remember this well mika is old enough to remember it . she wasn't paying attention, i'm shocked by the blind spot. mika do you remember the reagan hostage crisis? >> come on. >> 1979, i remember, it's one of the first polls i remember standing up. ted kennedy against jimmy carter, kennedy was beating carter with the 221 lead among democrats, 1979 was when jimmy carter said his only on christlike utterance, when he promised that if ted can be ran against him he told advisors, quote, i'll with his ass. i'm sorry mr. president for putting that out there but he in fact, did just that , but just a year before, ted kennedy, ahead of the incumbent president by a 2 to 1 margin, polls mean absolutely nothing, do they? >> they don't. and when carter ran in 1976, a year before that, and 75, it was like 100 to 1 odds that jimmy carter could have won the nomination in las vegas. everyone was in front of the one turn governor from georgia. he brought out a book called why not the best, sold 1 million copies but nobody in new york would publish the book. carter did what christie and what ron desantis and everyone is doing now, they're aiming for iowa. iowa means nothing in the democratic party, but it means everything for republicans, and what you saw last night with ron desantis, try to pick up the evangelical vote, using the word, revival in america. that's where somebody can make inroads on trump, can you pick off the franklin graham republicans in a state like iowa, and i recommend to all these candidates going to iowa, spend as much time there as you can, shake as many hands, carter went on the radio, cooking shows, door to door, spoke agricultural policy, hit iowa hard if you want to be the alternative to trump. >> and donald trump will be in iowa today and tomorrow as well, doing some of that. so, let's talk about how you approach donald trump because it's different from the task jimmy carter had in front of him. donald trump is something else. he is a religious figure to some people in the republican base who love donald trump no matter what he does. so how do you go at him if you are ron desantis, if you're chris christie, nikki haley, take your pick. what is the approach, how do you chip into some of that support? >> it'll be hard because the more people riding in iowa, the better it is for donald trump. he has such a solid group but it's a ceiling, trump people, so you will have to pick away at that. i think the evangelicals are people tired of the so-called baggage issue of trump, chris christie probably has to go in there and be bombastic but ridge gait is pretty right to go after kristi. i'm still angry about bridge gait and i don't even live in the new york area, it was so heinous when he did that. and then you got the difficulty of other people, the governor of north dakota or virginia might enter. sununu might enter. there so many people that trump will be able to isolate himself in a silo. so you will have to hope that these charges, that all of these legal charges start really denting trump, that he gets arrested, charged with a felony, something like this and then you went over the hearts and minds of the evangelicals in iowa, coming first and second, you are part of the national debate, and i can't envision a brutal florida -- jimmy carter had a brutal primary with george wallace in florida the old days but imagine, florida primary with trump and desantis going you know, at each other. i can't even imagine what that would be like. >> jen psaki, let's talk about this republican field. we know the more republicans jump in the better it is for trump most likely because his base is so solid, other than desantis, he is welcoming everyone. >>, on in! >> i don't know that he will do that for mike pence who is getting in next week as well but how do these republicans as they look around this growing field, take on each other, as well as trying to figure out how to take on trump? >> this is the interesting role that christie can play whether intentional or not. a lot of them are making the bet that if they could take out other candidates, then they can be the one to take on trump, that's also a 2016 strategy as we all know, which did not work. so it has to be more than that. if you look at desantis in addition to trying to appeal to the evangelicals, he's also sending the message that he can appeal to the base of the party that loves the components of trump like his aimed run on power and is even run on traditional values of institutions. one of the things he talked about so much last week that got buried in the coverage of what a disaster that his rollout was is that he kind of said everybody, if you think my predecessors sought power, i will go a step further and not so desantis is also trying to send this message that he is bolder than trump, and we haven't seen that work yet but to go back to your question, jonathan, i think they need to do two things, one, they need to take each other out, some will play a bigger role than others. maybe chris christie but they also need to figure out, going after trump, you've seen somebody like governor sununu do this which is to call out trump as a loser and somebody who has baggage that cannot win. i expect more of them to do that but we will see. >> so, probably incredible incredibly naove question, but isn't there some benefit to these candidates getting together and figuring out how to take the republican party back from republic donald trump, the more that jump in, isn't that better for trump, if they have mealymouthed criticisms of him? >> i'll ask you, this is exactly what happened with trump 2016, right? this is best case scenario for donald trump. >> best case scenario. we were talking about ivy leagues, joe, theodore roosevelt went to harvard but then he went and had his timeout in north dakota as a cowboy and said i wouldn't have been present without living with the hardscrabble people. fdr went to harvard and then he contracted polio and learned how to connect with the downtrodden. desantis is a spoiled brat, theodore roosevelt, he calls those weasel words, desantis, the elites today, and you know, the way he's talking, isn't something that is going to elevate him in my mind, and a state like iowa because he doesn't seem to be one of the people. maybe one of these other republicans has a chance of elevating themselves, nikki haley, is so low on the polls, she's been consistently spending a lot of time in iowa hitting that midwest market already. people thought amy klobuchar being from minnesota may have been able to rise there in iowa and that didn't happen. but yeah, we are looking right now at a repeat of what happened when trump knocked off all the republicans, that is what is happening. >> by the way, willie, i want to circle back to something you said. we understand not everybody can go to the university of alabama, john meacham would say you go to suwanee university of the south, or vanderbilt but we've got the greatest respect for ivy league schools and people who get into the ivy league schools, the joke here is of course that these people go to these ivy league schools, they are given every opportunity in the world, to study with the most elite professors in the world, hang out with the most elite students in the world and then they get into politics and pretend they fell off a turnip truck and they ate all the, quote, elites. it's so phony. that's what's -- i don't want anybody to mistake what we are saying for any thing but the greatest respect for the ivy league institutions, but to go there, especially these double layers. when you've got yale and stanford, if you are the guy you know, with the bone structure of a little bird, or if you go to princeton and harvard like ted or if you go to -- >> the best schools ever. >> or you go to yale and harvard. like, that would shame thurston howell iii. and you go out there and you talk about elites, elites, elites. >> what a blessing, what a gift to get to go to one of those schools, to work as hard as you can to get there and graduated there and then to turn and pretend it had no role and play a big part in your life. that is the gag here. let's not forget, that donald trump sold himself as the right- hand man, as the vessel, as the avatar for the working man in america, a guy who lives in a castle by the sea when he started his penthouse apartment made of mirrors and gold while he's like his playing with his name on it, he's the working man's president and he sold that, so it's a poor version of what these guys are trying to do. >> it's still selling. >> he also went to an ivy league school as well, again, these people, he inherits $400 million from his father, goes to an ivy league school, lives in a goldplated skyscraper you know, a resort by the sea. >> chooses not to serve, has bone spurs. >> and you pay themselves as this anti-elitist. let's turn quickly to the deal to raise the debt ceiling, with a full house set to vote on the bill later tonight. let's bring in ro kahnna. >> mika if i can just say as a graduate of university of chicago and yelled, of the son of indian immigrants, i think joe's point is right, let's celebrate education in this country, don't be dishonest about your past, the problem isn't with desantis or others having gone to harvard, the problem is that they are disparaging the institutions that gave them the opportunity and it's the phoniness that people hate. >> absolutely. >> onto the debt ceiling though, look, i think the republicans took this president hostage. the president of the absolute best he could under the circumstances. the deal could have been much worse but there are many democrats who do not want to reward the republicans running roughshod over the constitution . hakeem jeffries has said that we will provide enough votes so that the deal passes and it does not default, but some of us are going to vote no on principle. we don't believe that you should be taking away food assistance from the most vulnerable when we have an affordability crisis. that you should be hurting people who are student loan borrowers, and we know that there are options as larry summers has said, where the president can pay the debts that congress has authorized him to pay and this should never happen again. >> so congressman, so you've said the president of the best he could do under the circumstances. i've heard some people say, he should have never negotiated. that wasn't really an option because unfortunately, democrats in new york state at other states don't know how to redistrict in a way that passes constitutional muster, so democrats lost the house. so our very system requires these negotiations. again i just want to circle back and have you underlined that fact again. joe biden had no choice. he had to negotiate. and this is, you say, the best deal he could have gotten, why do you say that? >> the deal is much better than 10 years ago. it could have been much worse, it could have been 10 years of spending freezes, it was only two years. he managed to get some of the veterans, homeless, food assistance, that was something he negotiated, and he held back against drastic cuts. now, i believe that there are options, especially in the future as the president has said, where we shouldn't have this debt ceiling, we shouldn't have republicans holding the country hostage but the blame should not be on joe biden. the blame needs to be on the republicans in congress, who are using an instrument that's writing roughshod over the constitution. if you want to cut spending and raise defense spending, go through the regular process to do that and if the american people believe in you, they will elect you with those majorities. don't say i want my particular policy or otherwise and going to crash the world economy. progressives never do that, i'm for medicare for all, i don't say i'm going to crash the world economy if you don't have medicare for all. it's not the way we govern in america. >> congressman i wanted to ask you about the republican side here. you said you and others will vote against this on principle. it seems like there are a number of republicans who have been outspoken already about voting against this. what you think kevin mccarthy's future is, do you think he will still be speaker in a week or two? >> i think they're going to get the 150 votes from republicans. my sense is kevin mccarthy will survive but who knows? it would be not in the republicans interest to kick kevin mccarthy out and have even more chaos on their caucus. i don't think they have anyone else who they would unify behind but it's a caucus that is unpredictable. and when you've made so many concessions to people on the extreme wings, i don't think it's a sure thing that mccarthy will survive. i put the odds of him surviving but i would not underestimate the threats. >> ro khanna, thank you very much. let's bring in host of the 11th hour on msnbc, stephanie rhule. >> look at the markets, the markets have basically not been impacted at all and if you look at even the last few weeks, one might say that when kevin mccarthy went down to the new york stock exchange a few days after marjorie taylor greene was complaining about new york city, it's as though he wink wink at investors and said, we've got this, we are going to come up with a deal. and over the last few weeks while they have been concerned, the concerns that we have had that the likes of marjorie taylor greene would hold the party hostage, run us off the cliff, they haven't been overly concerned and if you look, they say this deal is going to get done. what's interesting about what ro khanna said, he was saying that there were republicans willing to let us fall into economic calamity. one could say the same to him because he's voting no, so the question is, if hakeem jeffries didn't have enough votes from other democrats, what would the likes of ro khanna do? the president has been handed a difficult him that he has to negotiate with republicans because that's how politics works. >> as we await the debt ceiling verdicts, give us your assessment of where things stand right now. consumers feel like inflation is still high but cool, we are watching the fed to see what they might do next. >> consumer sentiment out there is not good. things are still expensive across the board, so when you talk about how people feel, whether it's going to a restaurant, booking an airline ticket, anything in the service industry, things are expensive. wages have gone up, that's a positive but when wages go up, things cost us more and all this and complain, there's an enormous amount of corporate greed out there. companies have raised prices and they didn't need to. the only thing that's happened is there margins have grown and that might be true and we are living in a time of "greed- flation" >> the hardest working women in television there. jen psaki, before you go, i'm just wondering, do you think there's anything more the white house could be doing as a message to the american people, the understated but very real successes and accomplishments of this presidency? >> of course, i would say, with this debt limit deal specifically which is, yes, there are things that progressives don't like, it's a very good deal for joe biden, considering what the options would have been. the officials i've talked to say that they want to wait until this is done. let's avoid default and then they will talk about that. beyond that, there's an entire campaign ad, they started this where they've gone community to community, states announcing plans, proposals, announcing the impacts of some of these bills. they will do more of that and there making a bet that the local campaign is where it's going to be effective as well as paid media. but in terms of this deal i think they are waiting until everything is signed and they will talk more about it. >> for all the brinksmanship and the threats that we've seen, it does look about 11 hours from now that this will get through the house. >> a lot of noise but our old friend chris matthews used to talk about tip o'neill and ronald reagan all the time. i don't want to make the leap that kevin mccarthy and joe biden are that but here, we saw these two professional politicians one running the white house, one, congress, forge a deal and save us from the catastrophe of what could have occurred this summer. so i think it's a good moment for america that we were able to do this and that the far left of the far right were kind of shoved aside and we were able to get our bills paid. >> negotiate in a sober way, at least in this case. still ahead a live report from beijing on the heels of what the pentagon is calling an aggressive action by a chinese fighter jet plus north korea tries and fails to launch a military spy satellite. what we are learning about that incident. morning joe is coming right back. yeah, it can be very warm. ♪ you were made to remember some days forever. we were made to help you find the best way there. ♪ ♪ limu emu & doug ♪ what do we always say, son? liberty mutual customizes your car insurance... so you only pay for what you need. that's my boy. now you get out there, and you make us proud, huh? ♪ bye, uncle limu. ♪ stay off the freeways! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ 36 past the hour, north korea's attempt to put a military reconnaissance satellite failed today when the second stage of the rocket malfunction. it was launched around 6:30 local time, state media reported the rocket crashed into the sea west of the korean peninsula, after its second engine failed to start correctly. it added, plans to carry out a second launch as soon as possible. south korea and japan briefly urged residents to take shelter during the launch. the south korean military says, it's in the process of recovering what could be wreckage from the rocket. the pentagon has released video of what it calls an aggressive maneuver carried out by a chinese fighter jet. janice, what more do we know about this? >> reporter: we know this chinese fighter jet passed really closely to the u.s. aircraft, right in front of its nose, aggressive, is how u.s. officials are describing the maneuver that happened in international airspace over the south china sea. look at the video, you can see the chinese jet on the wing of the u.s. surveillance plane and it veers across the sky, in a move, known as something, it's where in aircraft then gets caught in another aircraft's wake and it causes a lot of turbulence for the aircraft. these sort of intercepts across the sea are not uncommon, there was one back in december of 2022 where the chinese jet passed within about 10 feet of the american plane, and another in february of 2023, when a poseidon aircraft was trailed by a chinese jet for about an hour and i was on that poseidon flight and the chinese jet was about 500 feet off the wing. it did stick therefore a long time. it was really close, we could see the pilots from where we were. but this sort of behavior that we've seen in this video that was just declassified by the pentagon, they say it's unnecessary, and they warn that this is how accidents can happen. china, naturally, is saying the responsibility is borne by the u.s., that it's provocative to have u.s. by planes flying in the region, a military spokesman for the southern theater about an hour ago said the pla navy was holding routine training at the time, that the u.s. plane had, quote, deliberately intruded. so it will make for an interesting scene at the security forum happening in singapore this week, where the secretary of defense wanted to meet with china's minister of defense but china has refused that invitation. >> so when do you think, based on your reporting, wendy you guess that there's going to be a fall here. it's so fascinating to me that president xi was willing to meet with blinkin one-on-one then after the spy balloon incident, you know, things have shut down for the most part so much so that they won't even meet the defense secretary. any reporting on the ground to suggest what their long play is here? >> they just don't seem interested right now. there were some smaller incremental moves that were seen as progress in the commerce space where the chinese commerce representative did have some meetings in washington recently. there is a push to make progress with treasury and commerce here and of course, with climate talks, but in terms of high level access, there doesn't seem to be a willingness on the chinese side. the lines of communication went court quiet quiet after the spy balloon was shot down, there's been no progress on defense even though it's one area where both sides see a necessity to have some talks, but the reason why the invitation from lloyd austin to meet with, was rejected i china was primarily because lee was sanctioned by the trump administration back in 2018 and that's never been lifted, so china is saying, it shows that the u.s. lacks sincerity and they don't think it's appropriate to have meetings at this time. >> it might be a helpful start to lift the sanctions on somebody you want to have a meeting with. janice, you know what is so fascinating, the chinese obviously, the economy is not going as well as it has in the past. obviously, improving relations with the united states, and europe at the same time, it's economically at least a win-win and i know they are meeting with economic leaders but again, these things obviously fit together. and i bring that up only because, a headline in the new york times caught my attention. he said china's young people can't find jobs, xi says they should , quote, each bitterness. not exactly a bumper sticker you would see in new hampshire politics and presidential primaries. talk about the story. explain it to us, if you will? >> reporter: youth unemployment is at a high, it's in double digits, over 20%. you have one in five people in the world's second-largest economy who can find a job, and add to that, underemployment in that same age bracket. there are all kinds of effects to this, people delay getting married, they are going to delay having kids, if they choose to have kids which of course doesn't do much for the demographic problem here. the question is, where did all of these jobs go? and economists are saying it's more of a structural issue and that perhaps they didn't exist in the first place. you have 1 million college graduates coming out of higher education in china every single year, and there are just not high skilled jobs that are suitable for them, or not jobs that they want. so the concern of course, is that you know, it's always been the trade-off you know, the feeling of prosperity among the people will lead to stability for the party as part of the social contract between the communist party and the people. so that is the question and the sense of unease, in how china's government is going to deal with this problem of youth unemployment, so there is this thinking that perhaps, as a stopgap measure until there is some bigger strategy that perhaps, the words of xi saying that young people need to suck it up, that is something that will keep the stability that he wants, at least for now but that is of course, all up in the air. coming up, 25 years after the full monty, first hit theaters, the cast is reuniting for a new tv series, based on the academy award-winning comedy. actor robert carlisle is here. he joins us with a preview, straightahead on morning joe. nie america is on the brink of defaulting on its debt, and donald trump is telling republicans in congress: “you're going to have to do a default.” he's pushing an extreme agenda to slash the basics we depend on, hurting the middle class, seniors, and veterans. a default would crash our economy, delay social security checks, and put basic services at risk. with so much on the line, now is their chance to finally stand up to trump's chaos. so tell republicans in congress: say no to trump. say no to default. meet stephanie... goodnight! and bethany... 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>> it's a police helicopter. it's going, it's going, it's gone. >> this is going to be the greatest comeback. >> this place is a madhouse. >> that's part of the trailer for the new fx series, the full monty that will air exclusively on hulu and if those faces look familiar, it's because the show reunites the original cast from the hit movie, more than 25 years later and joining us now is emmy nominated actor robert carlisle who plays one of the main characters. it's so great to meet you, welcome. it was such a great movie in 97 but such a phenomenon at the time, nominated for four the court academy awards, it won an oscar, so tell me how it came back, they said we are getting the band back together. >> simon, the original screenplay writer, he had been approached several times through the years to make another one. full monty 2, as it were. the end of the first film is just so triumphant the ending where the hats go off and bang! he didn't really want to take it much further. a couple of years ago look, wh eight-part tv special and we can go back and revisit these guys, see where they are, how things are going. i thought that's a no-brainer for me. >> you've led me to my next question, for fans of the film, where do we find these guys? in some ways 26 years have taken a toll. in other ways many of the problems are right in front of them. >> pretty much the same place unsurprisingly. it was 97 something, government labor government and there was kind of an explosion of popular culture, brit pop came, you know, and we were part of that, and that lasted about three days, and things changed again, of course. the conservative government had then been in power for the next 25 years, 25 years of austerity, and this has really chipped away at people and the infrastructure of the country are really. >> so considering it is 25 years later, what was it like to reinhabit the role for you and for the rest of the cast? how did you prepare? was it familiar as, you know, riding a bike or was it something, you had such careers between now and then, what was it like? >> well, it's like a corny thing to say like an old pair of shoes, but it was kind of like that, you know. i hadn't seen the film for 20 odd years. i thought i better watch it and i thought i'll maybe watch 10, 15 minutes of this, and i found myself watching the whole thing. i thought this film stands up 25 years later. so in terms of getting back into the character, it was a relatively easy thing. certainly when you're on the set face-to-face with these guys that i've known so well through the years, it's like a family regathering. >> and when you go back to 1997, robert, and what was it like to be at the middle of what really was a phenomenon, this movie, the word of mouth, have you seen the full monty, it just became this thing where there you are, you know, at the oscar. >> it was incredible. it really was. it was like an avalanche. it was made for just over half a million dollars at the time, very little money, and it was a small budget, you know, and a british movie, so who could have predicted what was going to happen. the only film to this day, still is the only film that i actually went to see in the cinema after it came out. thinking what is this thing, and i couldn't believe it, you know, i mean, i'm in a baseball cap on at the back. it was like an explosion of laughter and joy. i thought this thing's got legs, so it proved. >> an explosion of joy for just over a half a million dollars you were on the stage with titanic, which was i don't know how many hundreds of millions of dollars at the academy awards. we have another clip of the show where robert's character is cooking up a money making scheme with the help of a graffiti artist. >> ladies and gentlemen, you are in the presence of genius. >> give me strength. >> never one to undersell yourself. >> not me, him, meet ant the man, sheffield next big thing. tell your grandkids you gnaw him before he were famous. >> and what does sheffield's next big thing have to say for himself? >> can i have a cup of tea, please? >> sit here. >> i've been on at the counter all year trying to get rid of that. >> vandalism, nothing more, nothing less. >> the guy whose house it is said i could do it. >> the house prices is the right sort of graffiti. >> it looks like the wrong sort to me. >> don't mind him, it's graffiti art. the man was bigger than banksy in his day. >> what happened? >> he disappeared, artists do that, but now he's back. know what banksy fetches? >> thousands. >> millions. >> yeah, but i'm not banksy. >> yeah, well, banksy weren't banksy until he were banksy, were he? >> what were he? >> minimum wage sucker like the rest of us. >> how was the dancing this time around? >> no one wants to see that. it's kind of a -- there's a little bit in episode six, they get close to that, but i think people will be relieved to hear that doesn't actually happen. >> it's so much fun and everyone's going to be so happy to see the boys back together. you can stream all eight episodes exclusively on hulu starting on june 14th. robert carlisle, congratulations. so great to meet you. thanks for being here. and we'll be right back with more "morning joe." breztri gives you better breathing, symptom improvement, and helps prevent flare-ups. breztri won't replace a rescue inhaler for sudden breathing problems. it is not for asthma. tell your doctor if you have a heart condition or high blood pressure before taking it. don't take breztri more than prescribed. breztri may increase your risk of thrush, pneumonia, and osteoporosis. call your doctor if worsened breathing, chest pain, mouth or tongue swelling, problems urinating, vison changes, or eye pain occur. if you have copd ask your doctor about breztri. america is on the brink of defaulting on its debt, and donald trump is telling republicans in congress: “you're going to have to do a default.” he's pushing an extreme agenda to slash the basics we depend on, hurting the middle class, seniors, and veterans. a default would crash our economy, delay social security checks, and put basic services at risk. with so much on the line, now is their chance to finally stand up to trump's chaos. so tell republicans in congress: say no to trump. say no to default. - this is our premium platinum coverage map and this is consumer cellular's map. - i don't see the difference, do you? - well, that one's purple. - [announcer] get the exact same coverage as the nation's leading carrier. starting at $20. consumer cellular. staaaaacccceeeyyy! i'm the sizzle in this promposal. and tonight, sparks are gonna fly. kyle? and while romeo over here is trying to look cool, things are about to heat up. uh-oh. darn it, kyle! and if you don't have the right home insurance coverage, you could end up paying for this yourself. sorry mr. sanchez! get allstate, and be better protected from mayhem, like me. that's a hard no. we moved out of the city so our little sophie could appreciate nature. but then he got us t-mobile home internet. i was just trying to improve our signal, so some of the trees had to go. i might've taken it a step too far. (chainsaw revs) (tree crashes) (chainsaw continues) (daughter screams) let's pretend for a second that you didn't let down your entire family. what would that reality look like? well i guess i would've gotten us xfinity... and we'd have a better view. do you need mulch? what, we have a ton of mulch. boy that's a beautiful city, look at seattle at 6:58 in the morning where the new york yankees are making themselves very comfortable this week. big wins for the yankees who are marching their way up the al standings. >> isn't that exciting, john? >> i see some gloom there in town. the yankees have played really well. they have one of the best records in the league, though that still keeps them in third place in the ultra competitive a.l. east. tough couple of days for the mariners but they have been playing better the last couple of weeks. >> let's put a fine point of our four hours of conversations. this debt ceiling vote, 8:30 tonight is what it's scheduled for in the house. we've got some more no votes as the show has gone in publicly saying i'm against it, republicans, some democrats say they're hesitant to support it. >> the belief is it will. republican leadership is doing a count. we've heard this morning they've got enough votes to get this through. a bunch of democrats will as well, including that centrist group that's so important. it will be close. there's room for both extremes to make their political points. there will be a couple of thorny days in the senate, but the sense is it will get to the president's desk. >> we had chris murphy on earlier. we asked him about the senate, there are some people who have some reservations on it, but it will be voted up by the end of the week averting we hope a crisis for the county. that does it for us this morning, ana cabrera pickings up -- picks up the coverage right now. hello, it's gre