democratic caucusgoers. those who count. and then sanders there at 42%. a margin of error, we should tell you, of four points. what does that mean? well, it's anybody's game, which is white the candidates have been campaigning so hard in iowa all this weekend, making their final pitches to both the decided and undecided iowans alike. >> for those of you who are still thinking and weighing your options, i hope to be able to persuade you to come out and also caucus for me, because the stakes in this election are so high. >> iowa is prepared to say that it is just too late for establishment politics, and establishment economics. that in fact we need a political revolution. >> you're going to love me as president, and i love you anyway. so get out. get out and vote. get out and caucus. >> i know that you have a lot of choices, right? one out of seven republicans are running for president this year. but i'm asking you to caucus for me. >> and let's get right to it. i'm going to turn things over to melissa harris-perry who you know is in des moines, iowa, where all the action is happeni happening. she's got e.j. dionne from the "washington post," and also author of this new book "why the right went wrong" conservatism from goldwater to the tea party and beyond. over to you, melissa. >> thanks so much. i have e.j. with me. in fact, i want to start on the republican side. in part because the caucuses in iowa really are two different kinds of events. there are democratic caucuses and republican caucuses. they actually are different kinds of things that happen, you know, tomorrow night. so start with the republican caucuses. what will actually happen for republicans who show up in those classrooms and high school gymnasiums. >> the republicans have a much simpler system and we'll probably know a lot more about the republican race earlier. because the republicans essentially go in, they have -- they argue, they talk about it, but the vote is simply a ballot. you write the name down of your candidate. in some places, i think you can check the box. then you count the votes. the republican results will be essentially the popular vote of those people who show up to caucus. >> in fact, ivanka trump has this kind of -- i love the piece only because it's a reminder that even in a place like iowa where so many people are kind of long-term caucusers that even here, people have to be remunded. she has a piece out for our dad where it's like, it will only take a half hour. you go in, write down trump. it's just a reminder that for mr. trump, he is relying on brand-new caucusers to show up. you know, she tells them, go and find out where you're going to caucus. know that it's a different place than where you cast a general election vote. >> the biggest question for trump is exactly that, whether he can get people, his supporters, on the whole, are not people who participated before. some have, obviously. the "des moines register" poll has been historically very good at figuring out who is going to show up. and which is very hard to do, because it's a relatively small turnout compared to a presidential election. but that is still the big question. will the trump people show? the other interesting question is, organization has a lot to do with this. and historically, the evangelical conservative movement has been better than anybody on the republican side at turning out votes. the last two winners here were rick santorum and mike huckabee. both powered by the evangelical vote. now, the "des moines register" poll suggests a lower percentage of republicans are going to be evangelicals than before. but that also squares with they're showing trump ahead, but what cruz has going for him is a higher percentage of cruz supporters around the state are going to show up at the caucuses than anybody else because of the power of that evangelical machine. >> mr. trump clearly knows, again, the power of the evangelical vote. let's listen to his most recent ad on this. >> i really appreciate the support given to me by the evangelicals. they have been incredible. every poll says how well i'm doing with them. you know, my mother gave me this bible, this very bible many years ago. in fact, it's her writing right here. she wrote the name and my address. and it's just very special to me. and again, i want to thank the evangelicals. i will never let you down. >> so is that an effective strategy? kind of the mother, the bible. not really a religious message there, just kind of a show of the symbol. >> well, again, what you're seeing is the power of the evangelicals here. there are times when republican speeches here sound like you're at a prayer service. i saw marco rubio last night, and he was -- he's been very explicit about his faith in a way he hasn't necessarily been elsewhere. ted cruz's speeches, fused with scripture and prayer. and trump doesn't need to win a majority of evangelicals. he just needs to take a piece, pieces of it away from ted cruz and marco rubio. but i think if trump wins, it will be a real blow to the traditional christian conservative movement, which was built on the so-called values issues related to abortion and religious liberty and school prayer. if trump wins, with a decent share of the evangelicals, it's going to be based on anger and a sense of identity, that our identity is under threat here. and i think that's one reason why the traditional evangelical groups are working so hard for cruz. they want to say, we are still here. the old movement is still alive. it's really the old movement against a certain kind of backlash politics that trump represents. >> let's pop over to the democratic side, which is my favorite part. i have a group of students here with me. those working on the democratic campaigns, i keep telling them, there are cookies. a different way to caucus. what happens? >> the democratic rules, maybe democrats like complicated rules. you walk in and you go to a side of the room for your candidate. and you all stand together. democrats have this rule about viability. if you don't get 15% in a precinct, your candidate is no longer viable. and so there are several things that can happen at that point. one, the obvious one is, and in this case, it will be martin o'malley. not clear how many precincts he's going to be viable in. so o'malley people can redistribute themselves to sanders or clinton. and there's already been a lot of preliminary work in the precincts to identify the o'malley people to persuade them, if your guy can't make it, come to us. >> exactly. >> there's another odd thing that could happen, which is if you're in a precinct with, say, two delegates, you have to win that overwhelmingly, like 75% to get both delegates. if you beat me 60/40, i still get one delegate. you may have clinton and sanders people throwing votes to o'malley to keep the other out so a precinct will report sanders, 1, o'malley. there are extraordinary number of games you can play in the democratic process because you're going to have a certain number of o'malley voters. those voters will never be more popular than they are in those hours on that evening. >> that's right. on monday night, may be the most powerful, the martin o'malley supporters will be for the entire primary. fascinating to watch how that happens. so we're going to send it back to ari melber in new york. we'll be seeing you again a little later in the show. lots going on here in des moines. >> great, melissa. you are special to me as an o'malley voter tomorrow night. we'll check back with you. >> me, too. >> we have a closer look at the republican side. their closing arguments in iowa from attacking democrats to, yes, attacking each other. in new york state, we believe tomorrow starts today. all across the state the economy is growing, with creative new business incentives, and the lowest taxes in decades, attracting the talent and companies of tomorrow. like in the hudson valley, with world class biotech. and on long island, where great universities are creating next generation technologies. let us help grow your company's tomorrow, today at business.ny.gov if you have high blood pressure many cold medicines may raise your blood pressure. that's why there's coricidin® hbp. it relieves cold symptoms without raising blood pressure. so look for powerful cold medicine with a heart. coricidin® hbp. hey pal? 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he likes. i like and respect him. right now, it's up to the voters to decide. >> florida, 48%. 48%, a sitting senator who is running. you have a sitting senator. rubio is running. he's at 11%. i'm at 48%. you have a guy named bush. he was a governor, low energy. >> i truly personally like everyone running on the republican side. you know, ted cruz has been my friend and is. he's decided to run a very deceitful campaign at the end. some things he's saying. people see through that. >> that's some of the latest from republican candidates taking jabs at each other, although they are all friends as they make these pivotal closing arguments to iowa voters. we have boris, a republican strategist, and former aide with the mccain/palin campaign. elise jordan, political analyst, l. joy williams, and mark alexander, professor of seton hall law school and former adviser to barack obama. so a couple former advisers in the house. starting over here at our sort of republican lane, kasich said in the last debate, there's a kasich lane, which i didn't know. i hadn't heard that except for kasich. in our republican lane here, obviously, the "des moines register" poll, which is different than so many others, which actually models the turnout universe correctly and has a precedent for that, does show trump is resilient here. >> right, he is, but only a five-point difference. if you look at the polling from last time around, from 2012, with three days out, santorum was down by nine points in the same des moines poll, and ended up winning or not winning, you never know. he gained all the nine points assigned to the undecided. >> you see there, and this is significant, yes, trump in the lead, but only 7% of everyone else sees him as anywhere near their top pick, where as ted cruz and marco rubio, for a range of reasons, have tremendous what you might call secondary or ruzesidual support. >> what i found most interesting about the new poll is i think cruz is down five points. he's going down and marco rubio is going up. that is momentum on rubio's part in these final hours. i think that that's something who has momentum is so much more important in the last hours before people actually go to vote. >> you mentioned cruz. we have something going on here that has gotten some attention among political junkies. ted cruz basically sending out these flyers trying to get people to vote, but suggesting that not voting might be some sort of -- you see it in red -- voting violation, which drew a rebuke from the secretary of iowa. the cruz campaign fired back and said something i want you to address, hey, we want to apologize for trying to encourage people to get out and vote. >> this is something in various forms that happened in campaigns all the time. it might not be this blatant in terms of making it look like a parking ticket, but to send letters to voters or in the call script in the final days where you call and say, listen, you have consistently turned out. or the records show that you have consistently turned out or you haven't voted in the last election and we need you to come out. there have been different variations this happened in campaigns as part of the strategy you use to get people out to vote. this is, i think, way overboard. way overboard. and it illicits a strong reaction from people. it also does attention. >> it plays into the narrative that ted cruz is not a nice guy. that's a narrative you have seen from his days at princeton to his days working in texas to the senate, to now. people do not like ted cruz and voters don't like him because of that. gr that, i think, goes to also who they're going to stay with over the course of the weekend. the thing about the caucus we have to remember is you stay in the evening. you have to talk and talk. you say this is my first choice. you show the second choice candidates. once your cad dt falls off, you have to move on to a second candidate. it's going to be the staying power of the candidates that's very important. >> we're getting into the weeds here, but that's where you want to be one day out. as i worked as a field organizer on the democratic side for john kerry at the side, you have the ordering and speeches and all that. the republican process, as melissa was showing last block, with ivanka trump saying it's easy. no big deal. she's right. it isn't as hard and there isn't as much of the give and take. does that benefit the people near the top right now? >> you know, at this stage, i really don't want to say because the trump numbers are so much is such an unknown because are these people who are going to show up in the first place to caucus. you look at how they're polling and they are people who are not traditional caucusgoers. 50% of what his supposed strength is. i don't even want to speculate there because the trump phenomena is such an unknown. >> what the polls show are there are a large percentage of people who are undecided, haven't made up their mind, can be persuaded. if i'm going to leave my house and go and caucus and i'm still undecided, what am i swayed by. >> that's something people forget, which is when you look at the turnout models, the campaigns are rating each potential caucusgoer and a one if they're a firm supporter and two is light support and three is undecided. one of the things that happened in previous cycles is the dean campaign was losing its support, but still trying to turn out people that it had identified as supporters. and they turned them out, hey, reminder, go to the caucus, and then they weren't voting for howard dean. to elise's point, you have folks like cruz with a turnout team that is much more effective than trump. not many voters have been contacted by the trump campaign. >> polling can be wrong, but not that wrong. trump is going to have a lot of support. if he loses, he'll lose by a small margin. let's keep an eye on marco rubio. we haven't talked about somebody outside of the top three of trump, cruz, rubio. kasich, who you mentioned at the outset, is interesting to keep an eye on. a very good organization in iowa, and he's pressed a lot of fresh. >> he just got two endorsements, one that doesn't matter for republican primaries, the "new york times," but the other one, the quad city newspaper there, votes for bernie and kasich. quad city times. these are things, again, we're not talking about moving 50,000 people. we're talking about moving 500, 1,000, 2,000. >> that's what's so important in the republican primaries. you have so many people. the caucus coming up and primaries. a question of a little margin here and there. so that every last voter, elise talked about the momentum. those things are really going to matter. the last voter out. >> look, i want to thank boris and elise. we'll see more of you in the coming days. and l. jay and mark are staying with us. we'll check in with more on the campaign trail, candidates making the final dash across iowa. i take prilosec otc each morning for my frequent heartburn because you can't beat zero heartburn! ahhh the sweet taste of victory! prilosec otc. one pill each morning. 24 hours. zero heartburn. working on my feet all day gave min my knees. but now, i step on this machine and get my number which matches my dr. scholl's custom fit orthotic inserts. now i get immediate relief from my foot pain. my knee pain. find a machine at drscholls.com donald trump still holding a big lead in the polls in iowa. he says it might be a path to victory tomorrow. starting his day here on the campaign trail with a stop in council bluffs, iowa. kerry sanders now in the thick of it in iowa. nice to see you, kerry. walk us through the turnout strategy here. i think even trump detractors would acknowledge long-term polling support. how does he turn that into caucusgoers? >> yeah, a real big question. how do you get people who have been so enthusiastic, showed up to political rallies, things they have never done before because they were apathetic, they didn't think the political process was something that reflected them, and then show up, not to a rally as there will be again this morning, but show up to caucus. to actually get out there and do something. so first of all, let's take a look at those poll numbers, which shows that trump is now, according to the most recent poll, leading by five points, which is a dramatic turn around, really, from december, where he was down 15 points. so this dramatic turn has happened very quickly. leading up to the caucus, and then we see that the question is, what is a caucus? you have never been part of it. the word even sounds like an ugly word. donald trump and ivanka trump have sort of put together a video trying to explain to people what a caucus is, effectively going to a location, somebody's house, a school gymnasium, it's all determined, donald trump put up a website to try to guide people based on their addresses of where to go, to participate in a back and forth for about a half hour. and of course, it can get contentious. you have people in a room who will decide how they're going to vote, and then they write it on a piece of paper. small towns in iowa, 99 counties, 1681 of these caucus locations, and you know, depending on how heated it gets, you could lose some friends. one of the big parts about the vote in iowa is that evangelical vote. and donald trump seems to be playing to that vote. there's a picture of him here. you can see him holding what he says is the bible that his mother gave him. and donald trump just a week ago, when he went to church, said that it was not a routine experience for him to go to church. and he said that the sermon there was about humility. sort of ironic, since donald trump is not known for being the most humble of men. he will be in church today here in council bluffs, we understand, and then he will hold a rally. at the end of the day, that evangelical vote may be what determines who actually wins, getting out in what will be snow. getting out in what will be, you know, if there's something good on tv, maybe people are going to stay home. we don't know until we see if these people go to caucus rather than to a rally. >> i know when trump went to church last week, the campaign said he gave a, quote, generous donation. always something that is better for someone else to say than you to say about your own tithing. kerry sanders, we'll come back to you all day. thank you so much. senator ted cruz hoping to erase donald trump's lead, of course, somehow in the next 31 hours. he has three events today and will finish late tonight. we have nbc political analyst von hillier from des moines. what's going on? what's the closing strategy here? >> so the closing strategy for ted cruz is actually number one, he has to finish his 99-county tour. trying to go to all 99 counties. he has a plan to finish it tomorrow. spent the last couple days going to small towns. we went to hamlin tomorrow with just 252 people. a lot of people are saying what at this point, when you're trying to compete with donald trump, you need to go to places with as big of urban cores as you can get. the same places where mike huckabee won in 2008, rick santorum wont in 2012. and kerry was talking about the evangelical vote. a large part of the population is in these rural counties. if he can pull them out there, he could see support. what we found from the "des moines register"/boloomberg pol, 45% of iowa likely caucusgoers still have not made up their mind fully. really a lot of people are still out there, a lot of votes on the table. one of the things this morning on "meet the press," ted cruz acknowledged to chuck todd, saying i'm worried about the other candidates in the race, specifically ben carson, still polling in 10%. rand paul pulling in 5%. they may be 2%, but when you're down by five points over donald trump, every percentage point, every vote in this place matters. just eight years ago, mike huckabee had the largest ever get out the vote turnout. 40,000 people, in the way cruz is seeing this is if we can at least get that, we're in a good position. donald trump, you know, i think kerry was bringing it up, i have been out here since august. it's interesting to watch the ted cruz operation and the donald trump operation. two very different things. the ted cruz operation is the classic, the phone calls, door knocking routine. donald trump, very much these are some grassroots operatives making connections within their community. posting videos on facebook, on twitter. through e-mail, saying this caucus process is easy. it's okay. you guys can make it through. it's going to be interesting to see. kerry can attest out in council bluffs. it's not really easy for anybody to prick at this point. >> what you see with cruz is they're taking their message to the people. trump feels he's big enough of a excellent and a known quantity people will come to his videos and learn it that way. we'll get a real-world test tomorrow, and you'll be there with a front row seat. if you're watching, don't go away. melissa harris-perry will be back with us live from des moines. that's next. marie callender knows that a homemade turkey dinner can make anyone slow down and pull up a seat to the table. that's why she takes the time to season her turkey to perfection, and roast it until it's just right. and she makes stuffing from scratch, topping it with a healthy helping of delicious gravy. ♪ marie callender spends time on the little things, so that you can spend time on what really matters. marie callender's. it's time to savor. get fast-acting, long-lasting relief from heartburn with it neutralizes stomach acid and is the only product that forms a protective barrier that helps keep stomach acid in the stomach where it belongs. for fast-acting, long-lasting relief. try gaviscon®. bis committed to truth on the label. for fast-acting, long-lasting relief. when we say real meat is the first 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america is going to be a battle for voters beyond the relatively narrow ethnic and racial constraints of the iowa caucuses. i want to play a little bit of the sound from this morning, rand paul talking about the concerns within the republican party, relative to the possibility of mr. trump winning the republican nomination. let's take a listen. >> there are a lot of us who are alarmed by having donald trump as a nominee. i have been one who says we have to have a bigger, better, bolder party. nat means a more diverse party. i think donald trump will make us the sort of the lily white party, which is not going to win any elections, frankly. and i worry about him scaring people away based on sort of ethnic generalities, which i don't think are good for our party or good for the country. >> so what do you think, joy? >> it's interesting because i just saw rand paul not too far from here. i asked him off camera, was he concerned there isn't more resonant to the idea that he for instance as a candidate who ran on ending mass incarceration, criminal justice reform, and who has tried to have appeal to non-white voters, is he concerned it's not resonating in the party. he said he thinks it is outside the polls and younger republicans understand this need is there, but the sort of megaphone that donald trump quite frankly has had has overtaken that. i think he expresses a concern that a lot of republican strategists genuinely have. >> interestingly enough, not an irrelevant concern on the democratic side, too, where obviously, the kind of party make-up is quite diverse, yet the folks running for office this year, they don't look like 2008 when we had a latino candidate running, obviously, the first african-american who became president of the united states, when we had in hillary clinton a white woman running. i want to listen to bernie sanders, however, talking about wanting to create a diverse coalition and have you respond to that. >> the only way that we can bring real change to this country is when millions of people, young people, working people, black people, white people, latino people, gay people, straight people, women, men. when all of us stand together and very loudly and clearly say, enough is enough. >> so, is bernie sanders the person who can sustain that obama coalition? >> well, apparently, so far, no. in other words, bernie sanders has part of the coalition. he's clearly got overwhelming support among young people in a way that crosses racial lines. but if you look ahead in states such as south carolina, average americans are still with hillary clinton. i think it's one of the reasons why sanders needs a breakthrough here followed by new hampshire, because then i think he'll get a second hearing. although, the sanders people talk about picking up young latinos, for example, later on in the process. but that rand paul quote that you alluded to and joy talked about earlier is really interesting because he said young republicans care about this. and i'm sure he's right about that. the problem is that the republican party is so weak among the young right now that there aren't many young republicans to care about these things. and they are involved, and there are some republican pollsters and strategists worried about this, kind of self-re-enforcing project where their constitch wnlsy is getting older and less diverse, and a lot of young whites do not like a party that is not diverse. diversity isn't just an issue for african-americans or luteinose. it's an issue for young people generally. it's a big problem that only rand paul has talked to, with, for example, his coalition with cory booker on ending criminal justice reform. >> i wonder if marco rubio speaks to that as well. he speaks to it both in his identity, right, in terms of being a young person, a young person of color. and he also spoke to it recently in kind of the way he described sort of what america is, what america is to his family. so let's take a listen to marco rubio trying to speak to that. >> america isn't just the country i was born in. it's the country that changed the history of my family. my parents were not rich or famous, but they were successful. they lived the american dream. here's why. less than ten years after my parents arrived, they owned a home. not a mansion. but they owned a home in a safe and stable neighborhood. working as a bartender. they were able to raise four children. >> is that the story that kind of uplift, immigrant narrative, diverse young story that could sort of save the republican party in the long-term? >> that would have been a successful message in 2008. if he had been the opponent of barack obama in the 2008 election, that could have actually posed a significant challenge to the democrats because he would have been giving a similar sort of message to obama. that message is not resinating in the republican party today. in 2016, the party is driven by a white working class base that is krdriven bin een by sentimen illegal migration. it's not a nonsale. you cannot sell it. marco rubio is the guy who did the gang of eight. his immigrant story because it's also an immigrant story tied to the latino experience, even though the cuban american experience is completely different than the experience of mexican americans, and he's cuban american, so he's outside of the experience. his family didn't come as exiles, they flew on a plane like my family did. it's less resonant on the republican side. his campaign is very retro. it's not really where the republican party is today. >> you know, that's exactly right about today's republicans, but rubio is trying to do a bank shot with this. i heard him yesterday where he says, look, i'm the only candidate who can talk to a diverse group of people. i'm the only candidate on our side who had these experiences like having student loans. then he pivots to say if you want to defeat hillary clinton or bernie sanders, you need someone like me. it's now a big part of his stump speech. i'm not sure electability is an argument lots of voters respond to, although in the republican party, there is such a dezire after eight years of president obama -- >> to win. >> -- to take back the white house, that he's counting on that working at least with enough republicans here to push him up. >> there is one person making a strong electability argument as the closing argument. that is hillary clinton who is making it not only as a general sort of i am the most electable candidate, but also, and i should be. have you noticed my record, my years in public office? do you see who i am? i wonder the extent of that that is resonating particularly with iowa caucusers who after all do care about the quality of the candidate, who will ask the hard questions. >> hillary clinton, if you look at her resume is an accomplished person. it does say something about us as a society that as a woman candidate, your resume has to be that stacked for you to be considered ready to be president. some of the people on the other side of the republican side are nonpoliticians who never spent a day in office. >> including the front-runner. >> exactly. for hillary clinton that argument resonates. if you look at the "des moines register" poll, the interesting thing is hillary clinton supporters are more enthusiastic than sanders supporters. i think the reason is this is a rear year of retention. most democrats are trying to save, preserve, and defend the obama legacy. that's their prime directive. she's saying i'm the person competent to do that. bernie sanders has a bank shot, to use e.j.'s term, because he's uning for the people who are most disappointed with barack obama and trying to get barack obama voters. that's a very difficult thing to do at the same time. hers is i'm hugging obama. i'm competent. i can keep his legacy alive. >> right now, there isn't anybody else who can make that particular claim about the ability to do it. stick with us. i'm going to send it back to ari in new york, sitting at the table there in nerdland. >> fantastic. i know a lot of viewererize disappointed with this, but i'm excited to be back in. interesting conversation. we're going to check back in with melissa later in the program. we want to thank you e.j. and joy for joining us. whoever becomes president could have a chance to change the supreme court as we know it. will president obama end up as a justice? stay tuned. that's next. be good. text mom. boys have been really good today. send. let's get mark his own cell phone. nice. send. brad could use a new bike. send. 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do you love your wireless keyboard more than certain family members? is your success due to a filing system only you understand? does printing from your tablet to your wireless printer give you a jolt of confidence? if so, you may be gearcentric. someone who knows that the right office gear helps you do great things. and there's one place that has it all. office depot officemax. gear up for great. as iowans think about who they're going to pick to be their nominees, the next president will have a chance to appoint potentially several people to the supreme court, choosing a justice is truly one of the most lasting decisions any president makes and likely outlasts their time in office. that makes it a critical question for every candidate. let's take a look at how hillary clinton fielded one interesting suggestion she received this week in iowa on who she should appoint if she gets the chance. >> wow. what a great idea. nobody has ever suggested that to me. wow. i love that. wow. he may have a few other things to do, but i'll tell you, that's a great idea. >> the wows you're hearing there for the idea from the questioner that she should appoint barack obama to be on the supreme court. as you might imagine, one of clinton's republican opponents weighed in on that idea. >> the future of the constitution is in the balance. and you know what kind of person hillary clinton wants to put on the supreme court? barack obama. they asked her, what about barack obama on the supreme court? she said, what a great idea. no, no, it's not a good idea. you're going to appoint to the high court someone who has habitually violated the constitution? this is going to interpret and apply it? no way. we cannot lose this election. >> and at the table, joining me, akeel, constitutional law professor at yale, and back with us, l. joy and mark. professor, let me start with you. presidents have ended up on the court before, after their term. this is unlike laly and the whi house has not embraced it by any means. we're in the middle of a political contest. what kind of supreme court justice would barack obama be? >> william howard taft went from being president of the united states to chief justice and a yale person, too, i should put in that plug. as is hillary. and barack obama way back when was asked and he said, it could be hillary clinton. she could -- she actually is law trained and very serious. so kind of a right back at you. but you have to win first. and then you have to have a vacancy. the vacancies could occur either in the natural course of things because of age or disability. death, god forbid, but also, people choose to retire. you're going to get a different set of retirees, probably, if it's a democrat president than if it's a republican president. so ruth bader ginsburg, will, i suspect, step down if it's president clinton. >> what is clinton getting at other than the fact the sitting president is popular, what is she getting at in the notion of an obama justice? >> sanders and clinton are both going to appoint the same type of person. pretty much a generic democrat appointee. so it's not going to matter as much whether it's clinton or sanders. what's going to matter more is whether it's a republican or democrat president. >> delving into that, and we'll do republicans in a bit, here's what sanders said. any supreme court nominee will makeover turning citizens united one of their first decisions. that's a little bit more direct than the way clinton has talked about it. >> i tend to agree with the law professor that i think more of the differences not between hillary or bernie sanders. i think more of the differences between democrat or republican. and it's been interesting hearing the republican responses, not only to the suggestion of president obama but just in general because they have had conversations or have infused into their stump speeches about what type of jurors they would appoint. and it's always to the extreme. you know, that they -- >> sure. at the risk of pushing both of you, i'm not looking to hear that the republicans are extreme. i'm asking about their appointments. what bernie sanders is saying is he would put campaign finance issues as a litmus on par with what the right has done with abortion. does that make him different than clinton? is that a good thinger? >> it's a thing he wants to say to point out he thinks citizens united is a bad decision. that's not something the court does all by itself. to get back to the first question, i believe barack obama would be a great supreme court justice because he's well trained in the law. he's a law professor who studied the law, and he's shown himself, his personality, his demeanor throughout being president, committed to the rule of law. committed to very carefully considering what's in the best interest of the people. >> i think also, ari, that whatever appointments happen, there are going to be lit mmus tests on both sides. it's not as if whoever is going to be reds is just going to appoint someone and tats hat's . there's this process. there's going to be a litmus test on either side, whether it's citizens united or abortion. >> any nominee will deny any promise has been made about a vote. anyone who does promise should not be -- >> which is why there's space. >> when bernie sanders sethat, he's not credible. i'm not sure he'll say that in a general election. he's not as constitutionally law trained frankly as clinton and obama. >> which in itself is an interesting criticism. i want to show where there's a candidate who has arguedi in front of the supreme court nine times and often does so in his black ostrich skin boots. g to g, but i didn't think it was going to really happen. after one week of chantix, i knew i could quit. along with support, chantix (varenicline) is proven to help people quit smoking. chantix definitely helped reduce my urge to smoke. some people had changes in behavior, thinking or mood, hostility, agitation, depressed mood and suicidal thoughts or actions while taking or after stopping chantix. some had seizures while taking chantix. if you have any of these, stop chantix and call your doctor right away. tell your doctor about any history of mental health problems, which could get worse or of seizures. don't take chantix if you've had a serious allergic or skin reaction to it. if you have these, stop chantix and call your doctor right away as some can be life-threatening. tell your doctor if you have heart or blood vessel problems, or develop new or worse symptoms. get medical help right away if you have symptoms of a heart attack or stroke. decrease alcohol use while taking chantix. use caution when driving or operating machinery. most common side effect is nausea. being a non-smoker feels great. ask your doctor if chantix is right for you. what's that, broheim? i switched to geico and got more. more savings on car insurance? yeah bro-fessor, and more. like renters insurance. more ways to save. nice, bro-tato chip. that's not all, bro-tein shake. geico has motorcycle and rv insurance, too. oh, that's a lot more. oh yeah, i'm all about more, teddy brosevelt. geico. expect great savings and a whole lot more. here's ted cruz campaigning on who he would appoint to the supreme court. >> unlike the other very fine individuals on the debate stage, i would be willing to spend whatever political capital is necessary, and i give you my word, every justice i put on that court will be a principled constitutional jurist with a proven report who will be faithful to the law and will not legislate from the bench. >> our panel is back. professor, when he says constitutionalest, what does he actually mean? >> i don't know. it's a good sound bite. but the folks whom he has lauded on the court gave us bush v. gore, which was a disgrace. because in the constitution, presidents are supposed to bick justices. justices aren't supposed to pick presidents. they invalidated the voting rights act. and they upheld voter i.d., which influences not just whether you're going to be able to keep obamacare if you get it through congress, which is a hard thing, and his -- the folks he likes voted against obamacare, and he thinks it's unconstitutional. not just whether you're going to be able to keep the gain, it's whether you're even going to win a close election if we don't protect voting rights and the justices whom he has lauded have not been good on voting rights. >> you talk about voting rights. l. joy, we heard in his own words ted cruz say no legislating from the bench. as the professor points out, the voting rights act which was passed by martin luther king and the congress, and was upheld many times and reauthorized bipartisan overwhelming majorities, and then all of a sudden, it was the court that legislated and said this thing that was always okay now isn't. >> right. the irony always of saying, using as a talking point, we don't need judges legislating from the bench. we don't need these type of justices. yet, they're using candidates like him, using this as a litmus test in terms of supporting these issues. so while on one hand you're saying we don't want activist judges, you're also advocating for activist judges. >> five times this document actually says the right to vote. and it says again and again and again, congress shall have power. that's what the civil war amendments are about. and the ted cruz vision really doesn't understand that civil war linked envision. >> he throws out the red meat terms in things like activist. activist, the current supreme court have been very active in ways that are very damaging to our society. very damaging to our constitution. we talk about this at seton hall, at my election law class. we were talking about how the people have this right. and the fact is that the justices that ted cruz wants to support, they're pulling back on the rights. the reality is that we don't know what he means from that statement he's making, but i think he's trying to get people excited, through out red meat, but i'm not sure you have people super qualified for the job. >> not just on the skourlt. remember, this is in courts all across the country that they're, you know, seeking activist judges to change these laws. >> several voting issues before the current court on the term. i want to thank you for being here. l. joy and mark will be around in the next hour. what are we going to talk about? we're going to go back to iowa with melissa harris-perry who will be joined by representatives from both the clinton and sanders campaign. fresh reporting there, and next hour, my exclusive death row interview with an inmate who says he's innocent and has several judges backing him up. but only has one last chance to convince the state of california to spare his life. also, this is important. be sure to watch msnbc's primetime coverage tonight. the final day before the iowa caucuses. 8:00 p.m. eastern, rachel maddow, chris matthews, brian williams. don't want to miss that, and more mhp at the top of the hour. ♪ there it is... this is where i met your grandpa. right under this tree. ♪ (man) some things are worth holding onto. they're hugging the tree. 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(vo) don't be a settler. get rid of cable and upgrade to directv. call 1-800-directv. welcome back. i'm ari melber. we're counting down the hours until the start of the iowa caucuses. of course, tomorrow, 7:00 p.m. central, iowans will kick off the 2016 presidential primary year with the very first and so pivotal nominating contest in the entire country. the candidates, of course, this weekend, have been traveling all over the state, making their way to iowans. while i'm holding it down in the new york newsroom, melissa is on the ground in iowa in the middle of the action. she's joined by simone sanders, national press secretary for the bernie sanders campaign as well as erica alexander, a hillary clinton supporter, actress, writer, and activist. and i hand it over to you guys. >> thanks, ari. basically, what is happening right now is iowa black girl magic. so i am actually really excited to have you both here for a lot of reasons. in part because we have been screaming on mhp show for a while that in the democratic party, once we get to the point of the general election, that the question of african-american women's votes is the question of the election. that the black girls actually are magic when it comes to the election. that when you look at the election of president obama in 2008 and his re-election in 2012, it is the choices of african-american women that made the difference in terms of electing and then re-electing that president. so president obama is not on the 2016 ticket. instead, mr. sanders and mrs. clinton are. i would like to know, what is the case for mr. sanders and then i want to hear the case for mrs. clinton from the perspective of the african-american women voters, recognizing that we are diverse, we like lots of different things. what might be an argument to be made? >> i think the first argument to make is that the issues that senator sanders is speaking to are issues that are definitely important to black women. you know, when we talk about the issues of economic inequality, it's black women who are leading households. black women who are taking charge of their families. when we talk about criminal justice reform and juvenile justice, it's black women whose sons and daughters are being locked up at disproportionate rates. when we talk about minimum wage, it's black women who are getting paid substantial less than their white counterparts. so the issues senator sanders is speaking to are issues that directly and overwhelmingly affect african-american women. >> so is there a similar discourse we can make for secretary of state clinton? >> absolutely. she wants the same things. she knows that many women, not just black women, but women, they are single parents. they go to school. they need affordable child care. they need help with loans. they don't want to come out burdened with a bunch of debt. she's talking about debt-free college. she's talking about helping them obviously with the rise of minimum wage and that type of thing. but she really wants to speak to the fact that many women don't have the careers they want. because they have all sorts of other issues that take their attention away from just having the different opportunities that other people have in life. they make less than everybody else. we're at the bottom of the wrung for making money. i know in south carolina, i think they're 50th for women working at all. and you can make $8,000 less than men, and that's equal pay. that's the fair pay act that obama signed when he got in, president obama, the lilly ledbetter act, she was a co-conser, it was on his desk the day he stepped in there, and she's there to work hard for the issues. she's always worked hard for families and children. we're not just focused on that. we want careers, we want opportunities. she's a person who had those opportunities and wants to make sure that everybody has the ability to have them, too. >> i know one of the challenges in 2008 for african-american women voters, when they were sort of weighing that option around then-senator obama, then-senator clinton, and asking those questions about public policy on the one hand and also identity politics was wanting to feel like, i want somebody who meets my paulagy agenda but who also understands my experience, who is with me in this walk. do you think that senator clinton, excuse me, secretary of state clinton now in terms of her most recent -- there's a lot of -- >> good job. >> part of that enormous resume that is, that the "new york times" talked about in their endorsement of her. do you think that she can speak to those sets of experiences without doing what she was sometimes accused of in 2008, which is trying to speak to them in ways that sometimes didn't res natd with women of color voters. does that make sense? being able to speak to them but being able to speak to them with an acknowledgment of what her own position is. >> i think we often discount people if we think they're successful. we think they haven't struggled enough. but if she's a woman, she's done it. women see how hard it is for her to get her fair shake, to be seen as enthusiastic, to have people to aspire to be like her. she's been for over a decade the most admired woman in america, yet people say there's no enthusiasm for that. i think that when you're talking about people being maybe identifying with her, i think they see that she's an underdog in ways that people don't understand. anybody who has ever gone for something really hard or been a smart woman or seen as strong, i know. i play a lot of strong parts, and people think i'm hard. they want to give me parts or roles that only have to do with -- they say don't be so angry. i say, i'm not angry. i'm a very happy person, but they see me. to dehumanize that or characterize it as having, she's outside of my experience, is wrong. she's a woman. she's had a child. she hasn't -- i think she has a lot of things that help her identify. her father paid for her education, when she went to school, but she earned her law degree. and paid for that, too. she was the head of the household in terms of money when president clinton or then governor was working. she earned the money at the law firm. she wrote the policy. there was no policy for pregnant women at the rhodes law firm. she wrote the policy. she helped juveniles in south carolina who were being incarcerated with adults. she helped change the law just after college. she went and worked for the children's defense fund and the southern poverty center. that's a woman of not only great power but a person who identifies very well with people who are underserved. >> so that same question on identification with mr. sanders. because i have to say, the first time you were on the show, i was like, what just happened? my show blew up because i was so impressed by the way -- because for me, i have to say, this is one of the first times in my adult life as someone who, i make quick decisions. i'm very politically engaged. typically, i know who i'm going to vote for before they know they're running. i'm not kidding. this is the first time for me as an adult engaging in the political world where i really have not chosen a candidate. so make this -- make an argument for me. >> i think that that's you and millions of other people across this country. it's because senator sanders again is speaking to the issues that are important to people. i, like a lot -- i'm a woman. i want to break that glass ceiling. i also want to break the class ceiling. we cannot ignore the fact that economic inequality, racial inequality are parallel issues that have to be addressed si simultaneo simultaneously. we have to think about the issues. whether we're talking about the disappearing middle class across the country, in black communities, a lot of times the middle class is nonexistent. and senator sanders is speaking to injecting life into the middle class. when we talk about main street versus wall street, senator sanders has stood up against the billionaires. against wall street in this country. he stood up for hard-working american people. hundreds of thousands of union members across the country are standing with senator sanders. we talk about issues of women's rights, reproductive rights. he has a 100% rating from naral, from planned parenthood, and he is fighting for paid family leave. we're the only country that does not provide universal health care, education as a right, and then paid family leave for men and women. it's important that, you know, folks get that opportunity to stay home with their families after they adupt children or have children. i think this election comes down to the issues. you know, i have great respect for secretary clinton. she's great. but i am working for senator sanders because i absolutely and unequivocally believe in the things he's talking about. it's going to take radical change in america to, you know, to get us to where we need to be. the affordable health care act was an amazing achievement. senator sanders is talking about universal health care, building on the success of the affordable health care act because 29 million americans in this country are still uninsured. millions more underinsured. this election for a lot of feel is about the issues. that's why folks are like, i don't really know. well, i know. >> and i know we haven't even -- there hasn't even been one caucuser cast one vote in the iowa caucus yet. that does btd happen until tomorrow night. to start thinking too far ahead is bad politics just like it's bad in sports. that said, do either of you know whether or not the candidate that you're currently endorsing or working for would consider putting a woman of color, an african-american woman or latina on the ticket as a vp. this is the sort of think that might influence my thinking. i would like to see an african-american or latino woman as a vp candidate on the other end. >> as you said, we have to get through -- >> right, exactly. you're like, we have not even gotten there. >> here's the good news about hillary clinton. she's always had diverse staffs from when she was a first lady in arkansas, when she was a senator, a secretary of state. diversity is not a thing for her. i mean, it's how she lives her life. some people see it as a category that's outside of them. it's way she lives. i have no doubt that there will be some wonderful women and men that she'll, i hope, consider. and frankly, that would be really cool. i love it. >> wouldn't it be fun to do? what i am going to enjoy and what makes me happy is we have a robust primary on the democratic side and happy to see black girl magic happening in american democracy because it is critical to who we are. ari, back to you in new york. >> melissa, that was fun. do you want another 20, 30 minutes? >> yeah, what do we have? almost 45 left in the show. i'm down. >> thank you very much. i enjoyed listening to that. we'll check back with you later on. of course, thank you to simone and erica. >> we have a lot more to get to as we count down to iowa today. stay with us. seems like we've hit a road block. that reminds me... anyone have occasional constipation, diarrhea... ...gas, bloating? yes! one phillips' colon health probiotic cap each day helps defend against occasional digestive issues. with three types of good bacteria. live the regular life. phillips'. whfight back fastts tums smoothies starts dissolving the instant it touches your tongue and neutralizes stomach acid at the source tum, tum, tum, tum smoothies! only from tums breaking campaign news this hour. donald trump now telling fox news just now that has president he would, quote, strongly consider appointing supreme court justices who would try to overrule the decision that made marriage equality the law of the land. interesting development there as candidates make their closing argument. we go out to iowa to the hillary campaign where the last poll showed clinton with a thin lead over sanders. kristen welker working hard in des moines. give us your latest, what's happening out there. what are you hearing about clinton and these closing arguments? >> well, secretary clinton making her closing arguments, certainly, ari. she and her campaign, i would say, have a measured confidence as we enter the final day of campaigning before the iowa caucuses. as you pointed out, she has a very narrow lead in the latest "des moines register"/bloomberg poll. 45 to 42 percent, but that's within the margin of error. so this is still anybody's ball game. both candidates, secretary clinton, senator sanders, campaigned late into the night last night. secretary clinton brought in her husband, her daughter, to help her make her final pitch. senator sanders rallied young supporters. he said it is up to them. if we get a big turnout, we'll win. if we get a small turnout, we won't win. those are the stakes. secretary clinton did get a little good news yesterday. she was endorsed by the "new york times." she was also endorsed by 28 african-american ministers and faith leaders with whom she had met earlier in the week. now, ari, as you know, she's also been a bit on defense this weekend after friday, the state department decided not to release 22 of her e-mails from her private server when she was secretary of state, saying they were classified as top secret. yesterday, during an interview with our campaign embed, secretary clinton said she never sent or received any e-mails marked as classified at the time and said she didn't generate any of those e-mails that are marked as top secret. the campaign hoping to turn the page on that issue today. they are focused on their ground game. that's where the real battle lines are being drawn, ari. it really does come down to turnout. we talk about this. it's a cliche, but it's also true. senator sanders has a pretty strong lead among those younger voters. so if they turn out in force, he could win iowa. that's what happened back in 2008 when then-senator barack obama won iowa. he won the young vote by a margin of about 4 to 1. so senator sanders hoping to repeat that. but i have to tell you, both campaigns really focused on that ground games. they spent a lot of time building them up. so that's going to determine what happens on monday. >> very interesting, kristen. i notice in the "des moines register" poll, some of sanders supporters say they used to be for clinton, and you just never know going in tomorrow if they then get second thoughts and thinking about the ground game, as you mentioned. kristen welker in des moines, iowa. thank you. up next, we check in on the senator from vermont as he moves across the state. stay with us. our next item is a genuine "name your price" tool. this highly sought-after device from progressive can be yours for... twenty grand? 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[dog bark] trust me, we're dealing with a higher intelligence here. ♪ the all-new audi q7 is here. ♪ we were just talking to the clinton side of things. now, bernie sanders, just three points behind her, of course, in the most reliable poll typically, the "des moines register" poll, that came out just late last night. he's barn storming the state, trying to close the narrow gap. his supporters working hard to court every last vote until every last minute. jacob soboroff got a chance to see some of the sanders volunteers in action. >> if you could sign off, when you sign -- have you signed in already? >> what's happening is these people are signed up to canvas for bernie sanders, going door to door to get every last vote before the caucus on monday. >> what do you do? >> i retired last year. now i work -- i'm back working part-time at the iowa department of public health. i do kind of volunteer stuff. >> why did you decide to support bernie? >> i have been a lifelong left leaner, not necessarily a democrat. >> meaning what? >> back in the '60s and '70s, i was a socialist. >> got it. >> where are we? >> we're in beaverdale. >> you live around here? >> i do. i live actually about three blocks back. we're right here. yeah, so we have a couple, looks like a place here and a place here. >> you must be committed to be doing this. you don't have to knock on doors. show me how it's done. >> see if there's a doorbell here. >> here we go. hey, how are you? >> are you matthew? >> i am. >> have you decided who you're going to caucus for? >> your man. >> no way. >> great to meet you. >> take care. >> thanks for stopping by. >> appreciate it. >> nicely dub. that was easy. >> yeah. >> is it usually that easy? >> well, you know. >> where to mex? >> we're going to go right here. looks like a door hanger. >> so if they're not here, you put this up on the door. you ever had a door slammed in your face. >> oh, yeah. >> really? >> yeah. >> don't wreck my car. are you going to caucus this year? >> i can't. i have to work that night, but i have caucused before. i love to caucus. >> who are you supporting? >> the donald. >> oh, okay. >> if it wasn't donald, it would be the bernie. >> there you go. >> expect that? >> there you go. no, that's what i'm talking about. that's what you get. when you knock on doors. she was good. >> she's who you want to reach. >> this may be weird, but she's very representative of a lot of people. >> and that's how it's done. now, we turn to danny freeman in iowa city. now, senator sanders has been sharpening his attacks on hillary clinton. even as he said he's not going to get into the news about her e-mails. what's going on out there? >> well, good morning, ari. that's absolutely right. senator sanders took a pass again on taking on hillary clinton on the issue of her e-mails, which has been bouncing around headlines this entire weekend. in a carefully worded statement, senator sanders' team said there's a legal process in place which should proceed and not be politicized. of course, we remember that october debate when he said the american people have had enough of clinton's damn e-mails. now, this statement wasn't as pointed as that, but still, senator sanders wants to do what he has been doing over the course of the campaign, at least in their opinion, and run a positive campaign focused on theishuses, not get into the world of negative ads. though that has not stopped senator sanders from drawing pointed contrasts over the past few days. last night in cedar rapids was a good x. when she said he was disappointed with the tone of the clinton campaign. the clinton campaign pointed him out as wanting to dismantle the affordable care act. he said, dismantle it? i have been fighting for universal health care my entire life. he has been pointing out clinton's going back and forth on things like doma, the defense of marriage act, and the keystone pipeline and tpp. we'll see if that rhetoric intensifies moving forward to caucus night tomorrow. >> danny freeman, thank you very much. now, stay right there. up next, we have my exclusive interview with a california death row inmate who is fighting for his life. se diabetic nerve pain... shoots and burns its way into your day, i hear you. to everyone with this pain that makes ordinary tasks extraordinarily painful, i hear you. make sure your doctor hears you too! i hear you because i was there when my dad suffered with diabetic nerve pain. if you have diabetes and burning, shooting pain in your feet or hands, don't suffer in silence! step on up and ask your doctor about diabetic nerve pain. tell 'em cedric sent you. ♪ beth, i hear you calling.♪.s ♪ but i can't come home right now... ♪ ♪ me and the boys are playing.♪. ♪ ... all nig♪t text beth, what can i do... [siri:] message. pick up milk. oh, right. milk. introducing the newly redesigned passat. from volkswagen. ♪ it was always just a hobby. something you did for fun. until the day it became something much more. and that is why you invest. the best returns aren't just measured in dollars. ♪ (is committed to truth on thee plabel.d when we say real meat is the first ingredient, it is number one. and we leave out corn, wheat and soy. learn more at beyondpetfood.com get fast-acting, long-lasting relief from heartburn with it neutralizes stomach acid and is the only product that forms a protective barrier that helps keep stomach acid in the stomach where it belongs. for fast-acting, long-lasting relief. try gaviscon®. the presidential candidates have been talking criminal justice a lot. it was body cameras at this week's republican debate. while hillary clinton says she opposed some of bill clinton's tough on crime policies from the '90s. bill clanton ran on backing the death penalty in 1992 and took pushback from a liberal opponent in that primary, jerry brown. >> during my eight years as governor, no one was executed, and when the ledgislature put a bill on my desk to reinstate capital punishment after the supreme court had invalidated it, i vetoed that bill. >> today, the clintons have moved towards brown's past critiques while brown may be moving towards bill clinton's old position. he is governor again. california brought the death penalty back in november. and now he's facing a new test. california is on pace to execute this man, kevin cooper was convicted of a gruesome quadruple murder in 1983, but several judges say he may be, quote, innocent. now, i just did an interview with cooper from death row, which we will air in a few minutes. but here is how this infamous brutal case began. >> 8-year-old josh ryan, the sole survivor. authorities hope he can tell them what happened at his house on saturday night when his father, his mother, his sister on the right in this school picture, and a 12-year-old friend were murdered. all were found hacked and stabbed to death in this house amid the horse country of the chino hills. about 30 miles from los angeles. >> murders were horrific, and san bernardino police went on the hunt, sieging three suspects described as, quote, white or mexican males, end quote. that's based on what the only survivor, 8-year-old josh ryan initially said about the murders. the coroner found the five victims received 144 wounds in four minutes. also suggesting multiple killers and on the night of the murders, witnesses saw three white men driving away from the house in a station wagon that appeared similar to the car stolen that night from the house. beyond seeking three killers, police did not have many clues. >> the initial investigation at the ryan home where two adults and two children were hacked and slashed to death on june 5th turned up very, very few clues. >> then, they caught a break. a woman reported that she thought her estranged husband, lee furrow, was involved in the chino murders. he was a white convicted murderer. his hatchet was missing and he left blood-spattered coverales with her on the night of the murder. she gave police the bloody pants logged on this police document. that was, as you can imagine, a potentially huge break. but police did not test that blood. in fact, they threw those bloody pants out in a dumpster as this police record shows. destroying evidence is not only incompetent detective work. it is illegal as a court would later rule when it found flaws in cooper's trial. but the police at this point were now fixated on cooper, and they did have a reason. he had just escaped a minimum security prison and was hiding out nearby. >> blood and clothing found inside an abandoned home next door to the ryan ranch house. their conclusion at the time, the murderer may have stayed in the house next door a day or two before the murders were committed. >> so police put aside the three cu killer theory and argued that fugitive was the sole killer. beyond the circumstantial evidence, he's was nearby, he pled guilty to burglary before. at trial, they said other key evidence tied him to the crime, blood, shoe prints, and josh ryan's memory. josh was the 8-year-old who talked about the three white or latino men who murdered someone, his family, what he initially said. then prosecutors said that story changed to josh identifying one killer, kevin cooper. and prosecutors used his testimony in court. >> have you tried to forget what happened that night? >> yeah. >> what have you done to try to forget it? >> think happy thoughts. >> beyond that evidence, prosecutors say shoe prints at the scene were clearly prison issued shoes that only an inmate would have, and weren't available in stores. but that was not true according to the warden at cooper's prison. now then there was key blood evidence. now, while most of the evidence didn't put cooper in the house, prosecutors say one dop of blood matched cooper, a huge breakthrough if true. the trial was tense and sometimes racially charged. after seven days of deliberation, there was a verdict. >> we the jury in the above entitled action find the defendant kevin cooper guilty of the crime of murder in the first degree as charged. >> cooper argued that that evidence was completely flawed. he appealed but lost in state court. facing execution in 2004, his only hope was intervention by a federal court, and he just told me about being led that day naked to the death chamber for execution. >> i met the volunteer executioners. they had me standing naked in the death chamber waiting room. they put me in a cage. then you watch the clock as your life goes off minute by minute, you get closer and closer to execution. i was ten feet away from being murdered. >> with three hours to go, a federal court halted that execution. and it ruled those pivotal shoe prints did not link cooper to the crime after all. in fact, the warden at the very prison where cooper had served in 1983 said they didn't have special prison shoes, and he told investigators that before the trial. they still presented that flawed shoe evidence, though, and hid the story from cooper, the federal judges ruled that choice was illegal. and they wrote cooper was almost certainly not wearing the shoes that the killer allegedly wore at the house. and the judges didn't stop there. they cited lee furrow's bloody coveralls, noting his association said in jail he committed the murders in a revenge killing that mistakingly hit the wrong house. so the court ordered new hearings and testing and some jurors from the original case expressed doubts. >> the right to have the evidence inspected, to possibly and he might be exonerated from that. >> another juror wrote, quote, i let the police misconduct go and sentenced mr. cooper to death. i now regret that decision. meanwhile, cooper was back in court and more problems were exposed. the state's first test of blood in the house didn't match cooper. but was later changed to match u and testing proved that the very blood used as cooper's sample contained dna from two different people. but prosecutors argued other evidence did hold up against cooper. cigarettes from the family's car, and survivor josh ryan, who says cooper was the killer, to this day. after the extra hearings, cooper's conviction was again upheld in federal court. although in a split, five judges vigorously dissented. they noted, that, quote, the state of california may be about to execute an innocent man. they said he didn't get a fair hearing for the blood test after 2004, and police misrepresented memories of 8-year-old josh ryan, while preventing cooper from his right to examine an accuser. to be clear, no court has held that cooper was framed. but those five judges called out the prosecutor's suspicious approach to that key blood sample saying it, quote, has a history of being consumed during testing and that inexplicably reappearing in different form when useful to the prosecution. the evidence against cooper was so weak, those judges continued, it's, quote, highly unlikely he would have been convicted if prosecutors had not illegally withheld evidence at trial. now, while those may seem like troubling issues for a case that supports an execution, in the end, legally more judges upheld the conviction, and they noted that after the new dna test, new hearings with 42 wintnesses and long-standing evidence lie ryan's testimony, the results do not show cooper's insnls. now, cooper has no more court appeals. governor jerry brown is the only person standing between cooper and the death penalty. cooper is about to file an appeal asking brown to intervene, and he called me from death row in san quentin for our new interview. >> what are you asking governor brown to do? what do you want him to know when he makes his decision? >> i'm asking governor brown to look at my case with an open mind. i'm the only person in the history of this state to have five federal circuit judges say that the state of california may be about to execute an innocent man. i'm not asking america as a whole or any one person in particular to believe me. forget what i say. i'm asking people to believe those 12 justices, believe the commission on human rights. believe them. >> you were convicted of murdering the ryan family. did you kill them, harm them, or have any contact with them? >> no, i did not. i didn't even know they existed. >> were you ever in their home? >> no. >> you were also convicted of burglary three times. do you maintain your innocent in those cases or what do you say about that? >> when i was convicted of burglary, i plead guilty to those because i did them. >> i also asked cooper about the blood evidence in his case. >> the best of my knowledge, and i have been studying this case for a long time, that blood is not from me. it did not match me. had it somebody else's dna in it. how does two people's dna be in one drop of blood? that other dna is not the victims. which means whatever was on the wall that they collected was the original killer's blood. but they put my blood in that container. that's why you got two dnas in there wrrbl that's what i believe. >> in our interview, i asked cooper what he has learned about the criminal justice system. >> on death row, in this state, and on death row throughout this country, the only people who are on death row are poor people. no matter what their culture or their skin color or their religion, we're all poor. so that's saying something right there. racism doesn't matter. clasism does. this is a classest and racist system. >> if you are executed, what would you want people to know about your case? >> i'm innocent. it's not my execution, it's my motive. >> cooper faces that execution unless california governor jerry brown intervenes. up next, much more on iowa, the 2016 race, and just exactly how one gets out to the caucus. the microsoft cloud allows us to access information from anywhere. the microsoft cloud allows us to scale up. microsoft cloud changes our world dramatically. it wasn't too long ago it would take two weeks to sequence and analyze a genome. now, we can do a hundred per day. with the microsoft cloud we don't have to build server rooms. we have instant scale. the microsoft cloud is helping us to re-build and re-interpret our business. this cloud helps transform business. this is the microsoft cloud. ...to cook healthy meals... yet up to 90% fall short in getting key nutrients from food alone. let's do more... ...add one a day men's 50+. complete with key nutrients we may need. plus it helps support healthy blood pressure with vitamin d and magnesium. the iowa caucus is tomorrow, and with it, the official start of the presidential primary season. it is the reason while presidential hopefuls and the press descend on the hawkeye state en masse tomorrow. hundreds of thousands of caucusgoers will weigh in on the very crowded field vying for the oval office and helping to put real weight behind all of her preseason predictions. for the past 44 years, iowa has maintained the first to vote status. winning in iowa does not guarantee a party's nomination. the winners do get momentum that they need along with, of course, a surge in attention. joining us now is one who knows the process. a veteran of the iowa caucus from both 2004 kerry and hillary clinton '08 and now the director of grassroots advocacy and a former aide to barack obama at the dnc. did i get that right? >> you got it right, ari. >> final disclosure, a former colleague of mine over a decade ago. tell us straight up, what's happening rights now inside the campaigns on the ground in iowa and how does this thing work tomorrow night? >> well, right now, it's all about field, field, field. that means talking to the supporters you have been identifying over the course of the last six, nine months. insuring they know everything they need to know about where they have to go tomorrow night, when they have to get there, and what they have to do. then, secondarily, to the folks you have recruited as your volunteers, as you captains, making sure they have everything they need. they know the math, they know the numbers. they know exactly how many people to expect. and really, it's putting it all together. >> you hear that term so much, precinct captains. what is a precinct captain? what do they do tomorrow might? >> really, the caucus is not like typical voting. the caucus is a meeting that's going to happen in a church basement or a school auditorium tomorrow. and the precinct captain is the person that the candidate or the campaign or the field organizer has recruited to be your leader in the room. if anybody has ever been in a room that is crowded, you know it can be chaos. and the caucus can be a little bit of chaos when you walk in. a couple hundred people there. you need to get your supporters organized, to the side of the room, get undecided people your message. and try to convince them even though they may have walked in undecided, to caucus with you. the precinct captain is the leader of that effort and frankly the most important person tomorrow night come 7:00 p.m. >> after all the ads and speeches and the media, at least on the democratic side, the last thing they the voters will hear tomorrow night is a pitch from a neighbor or someone in their community. so when you were working in iowa, how would you try to shape that pitch? if you do too many talking point or too top down, that's going to ring inauthentic, right? >> there's no better communicator of a political message than someone you know. we ask them to speak from the heart. tell your fellow neighborhood member, your friend, sometimes somebody you have seen at the local coffee shop, why you're supporting the candidate you're supporting. obviously, depending on who they support, if it's an o'malley supporter or someone leaning towards bernie sanders and you're a hillary clinton captain, you know the messages you want to deliver. but really what it comes down to is a message from the heart. why you're there, why you're taking a couple hours out of your day, or for the volunteers, hours and hours over the course of months and months of giving your -- go ahead. >> you worked for hillary clinton in iowa when she lost. >> i did. >> if you think she's going to do okay this year, is that because she's a better candidate or she has a better organization in iowa? >> you know, i think it's both, honestly. i think iowa is a humbling experience for any candidate. win or lose. the president talked about this in an interview last week. i think hillary clinton is a better candidate now than she was eight years ago. i also think the organization they have put together in iowa has supersuperseding what we did. it's partly experience, partly that the organizers on the ground are more experienced and they learned from the mistakes, the mistakes i made, we made, and that's good organizing, good politics. >> the voters have a way of humbling even the most arrogant people in the political process. we'll find out tomorrow what happens. thanks for joining us. >> thank you, ari. up next, we'll go back to iowa for final thoughts from p melissa harris-perry and special guests. stay with us. staying in rhythm... it's how i try to live... how i stay active. so i need nutrition... that won't weigh me down. for the nutrition you want without the calories you don't... try boost® 100 calories. each delicious snack size drink gives you... 25 vitamins and minerals and 10 grams of protein. so it's big in nutrition and small in calories. i'm not about to swim in the slow lane. stay strong. stay active with boost®. ...of fixodent plus adhesives. they help your denture hold strong more like natural teeth. and you can eat even tough food. fixodent. strong more like natural teeth. fixodent and forget it. 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(train wheels on tracks) it had no mouth, but it spoke to me. it said, "rocky mountaineer: all aboard amazing". . welcome back. we ra watching as the iowa caucus just a day away. we're checking in all morning with the candidates, making their final pitch. i want to go one more time on the ground to iowa. melissa joined by two wake forest students, austin cook and daniela. back to you. >> i hope folks out in orlando, part of the show we call this show #orlan because my real job is a college professor at wake forest, university, which is where i graduated as an undergraduate many, many years ago. wake forest has a long tradition of engaging in american politics. we've hosted presidential debates, jack kemp is associated with our university, other great folks over the years. we have a great program running out of wake forest called wake the vote. you can follow wake the vote project all year 2016 on twitter or instagram @wakethevote. they are 22 diverse students across the ideological spectrum from first-year to fourth-year students. they're traveling to iowa, new hampshire, north carolina, south carolina, where they're going to work in the primaries for candidates. they're going to go to campaign events together. they're also going to go to the dnc and rnc conventions this summer. they're going to work for candidates of their choice. that's all watching the debate. they're going to host events and do get out the vote efforts. this is all about engaging democracy and engaging democracy as college students across differences. last night these students were here in iowa. i've got two of them with me. i want to have them introduce themselves. our first-year student, tell us your name, what year you are at wake forest and where you're from. >> i'm daniela a freshman at wake forest university and majoring in political science and spanish. >> and tell us what's your hometown? >> i'm waconda, illinois. >> how about you? austin cook, senior at wake forest, political sngs major and lan kas lancaster, pennsylvania. >> you're from different parts of the country and support different candidates. last night you went to a marco rubio rally. i hadn't quite made it in yet from new york but you were here with your colleagues. i know you've been a supporter of marco rubio. tell us about your experience. >> it was very exciting. i loved the opportunity to see a lot of young constituents supporting rubio. having the opportunity to see him speak in front of such a large group of people and having the volunteers come up to you and get interviewed. we got interviewed by a french reporter. it was a great opportunity. i like the issues he touched on. it was great to hear his input and to see his charismatic, witty sense of humor. >> i was watching the wake the forest twitter feed and i thought, daniela took it over because there were lots of quotes from marco rubio. i know you're a supporter of mr. rubio and this is exciting for you to see your own candidate up close. that's what's great about the iowa caucuses. i know you were there with some of your peers who are not rubio supporters. for students who were up close with a candidate and that was like, too? >> there was a lot of energy in the room. seeing him up close -- seeing it on tv is one thing. seeing it in person is different. he had a crowd of about 1,000 people. there was a lot of energy, charisma. i think it's always interesting to hear, even from can days who you maybe don't agree with, but seeing it firsthand was a cool experience. >> austin, you're in journalism, work as editor-in-chief of our school paper, "the old gold and bla black" at wake forest. you responded like a journalist would moment we're engaging democracy, whether we agree or disagree, our candidate or not, it's always our country. it's always our process and there are questions to be asked. part of the question i have for you, why engage wake the vote? why take the time to travel all over the country with 21 of your colleagues and stay in hotels and do this work? >> i think it's important for people our age to get in the political process. whether you work for a candidate you agree with or not is irrelevant, in my opinion. making sure young people are cherishing the democracy we have, taking advantage of the ability to vote and getting involved on campaign, whether it's making phone calls, canvassing, things like that. it's important to make sure we're not -- we're valuing this right as much as we can. i think it's a great opportunity for us to have all these experiences and to bring it back to wake forest and share it with so many students. which is a big part of the social media push. i think engaging young people, especially in 2016 when it's been so unusual and so important, i think it's going to be a big issue. >> what would you say are the top issues young people will be voting on this year? >> i think one of the most important things for students our age is probably going to be college affordability. also climate change, environment, how these candidates will respond to these issues is critical. it's interesting to follow. i was just reading an article the other day about what each of the candidates are saying from "national geographic" and their viewpoints in regards to the environment. >> this is just my greatest privilege s traveling with you all, working with you all. ari, i'm going to head back to you, but i just want to say, for me, getting a chance to wake the vote with these 22 students is so much fun. being here in iowa, the energy of the caucuses and also the energy of these young people. we're going to be in new hampshire. we're going to be in south carolina. we're going to be in north carolina. of course, we'll be on social media. join us in waking the vote. >> awesome. it's a social process, an education. great what you and your students are doing out there. i want to think melissa harris-perry and the wake the vote students. we'll be back next saturday in our new york headquarters at 10:00 a.m. eastern. now tonight watch msnbc special, prime time coverage, starts at 8:00 p.m. eastern with brian, chris and rachel. you see it there. don't go anywhere because "weekends with alex witt" is up now. alex will talk about the ads airing in iowa, what campaigns can do to keep them from being just noise and other breaking news, so stay tuned. ♪ listen up! i'm here to get the lady of the house back on her feet. and give her the strength and energy to stay healthy. who's with me?! yay! the complete balanced nutrition of great tasting ensure. with 9 grams of protein and 26 vitamins and minerals. ensure. take life in! on the floor! everybody down! hey, do something!e floor! oh, i'm not a security guard. i'm a security monitor. i only notify people if there's a robbery. there's a robbery! why monitor a problem if you don't fix it? 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