Embarrassment, quite frankly. My guest this morning, bidens incoming chief of staff, ron klain, and the republican governor of arkansas, Asa Hutchinson. Also, record covid spike. This is kind of like standing on the beach and watching the hurricane slowly roll towards you. This surge is much more intense, widespread, and dangerous. Were heading towards a cliff. Reporter 49 states see a rise in cases. Many cities and states finally cracking esdown. Announcing a twoweek freeze for the entire state. Stay at home, unless you must go out for essential reasons. Illut talk to a member of president elect bidens covid transitionid team, mr. Michael osterholm. Joining me for insightel and analysis are nbc news correspondent carol lee, republicanl strategist al cardenas, maria teresa kumar, president ofsa voto latino, and jerry goer jeffrey goldberg, editor in chief of the atlantic. If its sunday, its meet th press. Announcer from nbc news in washington, the longest running show inth television history, ts is meet the press with chuck todd. Ru and a good sunday morning. Nearly two weeks after an electionday a contest won by j biden by more than 5. 5 million votes, so far, and by a comfortable electoral vote margin, the country is facing two interconnected crises. One, the president of the United States refuses to concede the election, claiming falsely that it was somehow stolen. His attorney general is currently encouraging investigations into voter fraud, despite a lack of evidence that exists. The secretary of state is suggesting the president will be inaugurated for a second term. Perhaps he was kidding. The president has fired his defense secretary and is filling the Defense Department with loyalists, some of whom traffic in conspiracy theories. If this were happening anywhere else, our state department would be issuing grim reports about the future of that countrys democracy, but that country is this country. Its happening here. De making matters worse, the administration is atrefusing to allows bidens team access to secure communications and classified briefings, including operation warp speed, which covers Vaccine Distribution for thene exploding covid crisis. And in exfact, this is happenin as President Trump is all but ignoring the pandemic, reportedly not having even met with his own Coronavirus Task force in at least five months. The pandemic is at its highest peak yet. In just the last week, 31 states have set records for new cases, and the last six states have seen the highest case counts nationwide. In sport, President Trump is refusing to acknowledge two realities his defeat and covid19. But the virus does not care, as it continues its march across the country doing exactly what experts have long predicted it would do. Whatever happens in the future who knows which administration it will be i guess time will tell, but i can tell you, this administration will not go to a lockdown. President trump acknowledging for a moment on friday that he may not have won the election, even as he continues to refuse to concede. Were moving forward here at the white house under the assumption that there will be a second trump term. Mr. Trump out of public view for most of the week but tweeting hundreds of times suffered a string of legal setbacks in pennsylvania, arizona and michigan on friday, as Joe Bidens Electoral College win grew to 306 electoral votes, matching mr. Trumps in 2016. We had a massive landslide victory, as you know, in the Electoral College. I guess the final numbers are now at 306. We are already beginning the transition. Were well under way. President elect joe biden also largely out of public view but criticizing the president. I just think its an embarrassment. As republicanst eyeing the coming Senate Runoffs in georgia, where they believe they need to mobilize mr. Trumps voters, largely rallied around him. President trump is 100 within his rights to look into allegations of irregularities and weigh his legal options. The elections not over, by the way. The future ofno america is o the line in georgia. Butth by thursday, cracks emerged as republicans began to call for biden to receive Intelligence Briefings. For me, this is just an issue of saying, lets learn the lesson of 2000 and lets make sure that both sides are prepared. I think its important that both continue to get those briefings until the Electoral College makes its final determination. Should we need a transition in the future, this would simplify that transition. The leadership vacuum of the lame duck period comes as the coronavirus pandemic is shattering records with more than 176,000 new cases on friday. Cases are up over the past two weeks in 49 states and d. C. More than 69,000 people are hospitalized and deaths have risen in 31 states. This surge is much more intense, widespread, and dangerous. It ises spreading rapidly everywhere. Were heading towards a cliff. I dont know if the vaccine gets toe us before we have horrible things happening here in wisconsin. More states are issuing new restrictions, including a mask mandate in north dakota, and on friday, wyomings governor said he is considering one as well. We havent got our head in the game. Were running around like chickens with our heads cut off. Lets get t serious. As the coronavirus continues to spread. I am announcing a twoweek freeze for the entire state. Total lockdown, if we dont start to get more serious and follow the rules. You know whats really uncomfortable and annoying . When you die. As you can see by this chart, the number of new cases has skyrocketed, more than doubling in recent skweeks. One person has been predicting this kind of turn in the pandemic since he first appeared on meet the press back on april 26th. Dr. Michael osterholm said then we were in the foothills of this crisis and had mountains yet to climb, and you can see that daily case count since the start of the pandemic. It looks like ant evergrowing mountain. Dr. Osterholm is, of course, an Infectious Disease expert at the university of minnesota and now is a member of president elect bidens covidbe Advisory Board. Dr. Osterholm, welcome back to meet the press. I thought it was important to get yourac perspective first i got to president elect bidens chief of staff, ron klain. So, letie me just simply ask yo this. Weret seeing the exponential rise that you, sadly, predicted would happen in covid cases you and many others, this fall and winter here we are. Are we going to plateau any time soon, or is this trajectory just going to keep going up and up . Well, thank you, again. And letl, me just say at the outset that our t futures in o hands. And right now, for at least the next three weeks, because cases are already in, we would say f there pipeline, meaning that theyre already infected. These numbers are going to go way up. Our job is to imagine what the world could be like if we do make the change ams we need to make. Were going to be heading to a vaccine in thead next few month where we could start to imagine having summer baseball back, barbecues, et cetera. But in the meantime, we are in a very dangerous period, the most dangerous Public Health period since 1918, and if we dont basically take important steps like stop swapping air with our neighbors, our friends, our colleagues, were going to see these numbers grow substantially. So,numb what should happen r now . H i mean, ive talked to plenty of mayors and governors this week, and they all feel like that you can tell, they all want to do more and theyre hesitant because of the fatigue, because of the economic impact, because of the lack of leadership from the federal government, perhaps the lack of money from the federal government. This is the situation we are in, not the utopia that wed all like in governments working ke together. What do we dome right now . What does a local mayor do without the help of the federal government . Well, its critical that we do get the help of the federal government, and i cant make that any more straightforward than that. If were going to control this virus out in our communities right now, were going to have to support w those who are goin to be suffering economically. You know, we have a choice do you want to have schools open or do you want to keep bars and restaurants open . Well, if you shut down bars and restaurants, theyre hanging on by as, thread. That single mother waitress that basically doesnt have any other income, we have got to support them and help them to do the right thing. They want to. I dont know anybody that doesnt want to. If were going to help our Health Care System right now try to respond to this crisis, and we know that they are at a tipping point, we have got to have help right now. And so, i just urge that the last thing we do is support our governors. They are the front lines right now. There is no National Leadership on this issue. Theyre trying. I dont care if theyre democrat or republican, theyre trying, and we have got to support them in these issues. Look, now that you are a member of president elect bidens covid Advisory Board, any comments you make are suddenly going to get put through a different prism, so i want to give you a chance to clarify what you meant by the four towh sixweek lockdown, because you said even back in august, look, weve got to have some pause here and have some sheltering in place if we have any chance at bending this curve. Ac well, first of all, weve got to reframe this issue. We have gotef to understand, again, that what were trying to do is get to the summer, when we have vaccines that can fundamentally change how safe it is to be in everyday life. And what wen need to do right w is focus on whats going to make that difference. And as i just said, its very important that, first of all, we dont swaprs air with people. Thats how this is being transmitted. And we have got to do whatever it takes to support that. You seeor the governor struggli rightth now. They want help. Ive actually talked to five governors in the last two days. All of them said, wouldnt it be wonderful if we could all at least be on the same page . But right now, my states surrounded by four other states and theynd all have different recommendations. That by itself iser what were talking about,lf standardizing w were all going to approach this. This virus doesnt care what party you are, doesnt care where you live. We have to understand that thats what we have to work on right now. Dr. Osterholm, it certainly looks like the case counts onlt going to go up, the hospitalizations are only going to go up, and the death count is only going to go up between now and the beginning of passing out this vaccine. How close to the breaking point is our Hospital System . And atos what point is that goi to be the point where the Hospital Systems going to forc us to shut down, we will all have no choice . Well, i think you said it very well. You know, my worst fear is what we sawea happen in other countries, where people were dying on the streets. People literally were dying in the waiting room of Emergency Rooms after spending ten hours just waiting to be seen. Thats going to start happening. The media will start reporting it. And we will see the breadth and the depth of this tragedy. That, i hope, will not be the way that we finally decide to reduce our risk, this idea of swapping air. Weve got to stop doing that. And so, i think it is the Health Care Systems breaking, literally, breaking, that will, unfortunately, bring us to a sense of reality of what we must do in the short term. And hown close are we to th point . Well, you t know, the case w, numbers, as youve seen how quickly they have been rising. I think thatse going to continue. And there are many Health Care Systems that a few more weeks of this level of activity and that will happen. That will happen. Dr. Michael osterholm of the university of minnesota, we have you on here to give us the Straight Talk and you always do. Appreciate your coming on and sharing your perspective and expertise. Thank you. Joining me now is president elect joe bidens choice for chief of staff, ron klain. Mr. Klain, welcome to meet the press. Thanks for having me, chuck. The models indicate another 100,000 americans may die before january 20th. We may be sitting at case counts well over 200,000 by the time you take over in this administration. So, what do you do now in anticipation for what looks like is going to be exponentially worse in 60 days . Yeah, chuck. I mean, its a very grave situation. Back in september, thencandidate joe biden warned that america was headed to a veryde dark winter, if the administration didnt step up its action. And you u know, the very First Business day of his transition on monday of d this week, the president elect met with his Covid Task Force and made a Public Statement afterwards, where he called on all americans to mask up. He urged governors to impose masking mandates now and reiterated that when he becomes president , he will impose one on a nationwide basis. Mp and so, look, hes not the president now. , theres not that much that joe biden can do right now to change things, other than to reiterate kind of the message you heard from dr. Osterholm, which is that all americans andho our ste and local governments need to step up right now. If the president and the administrations not going to lead, thats where the leadership has to come from. That will change on january 20th, but right now we have a crisis thats getting worse. You know, we have never had a day with 100,000 cases in a single day until last week. By next week, we may see 200,000 cases in a single day. So this isin getting much worse chuck. What do yours im curious. With your coronavirus Advisory Board, has there been any, even informal contact between the task force and your Advisory Board . Has there been informal contact, for instance, between the president elect and dr. Fauci . Unfortunately, chuck, we cant. We cant until we get that gsa ascertainment that authorizes us to contact government officials. And so, we cant have any of those kinds of contacts until we get to that stage of ascertainment. Obviously, theres information that passes in scientific circles. The people on ourin task force, like dr. Osterholm, are leading scientists. But chuck, i think you hit a key point, which is that joe bidens going to become president ch of e United States in the midstin ofn ongoing crisis. That has to be a seamless transition. We nowea have the possibility we need to see if it gets approved of a vaccine starting, perhaps, in decemberjanuary. There are people at n hhs makin plans to implement that vaccine. Our experts need to talk to those people as soon as possible so Nothing Drops in this change of power were going to have on january 20th. Have your folks been able to have any contact with pfizer at all . And do you have a better understanding of just how soon the vaccine could get distributed . Were going to have meetings between our top scientific advisers and the officials of these drug companies, not justifieser,es but there are otr promising vaccines as well. Were going to start those consultations this week. But again, i think there are two issues here, chuck. What is the scientific issue around the vaccine. But i think ive been saying since april, the big issue will be the mechanics of manufacturer and distribution, getting this thing out. , and that lies at folks at the health andie Human Services department. We need to be talking to them as quickly as possible. You know, its great to have a vaccine, but vaccines dont save lives. Li vaccinations save lives, and that means youve got to get thatea vaccine into peoples ar, all over this country. Its a giant logistical project. Yeah, you have said, in convincing the american public, youg said in a previous interview, in 2021, convincing them to take the vaccine may be thehe biggest challenge we faces a country. But i want to stick with one more issue on the current covid crisis, which is, youve heard dr. Osterholm, every expert has said, if were going to we might have to have a temporary shutdown, but we cant do it if youre not going to basically pay these people not to open their businesses. Cantei do that without congres agreeing to something. How urgently do you think house democrats, Senate Republicans, theyre at loggerheads. Do you take what you can get now or do you support Speaker Pelosi holding out . Well, the president elect had a conversation with Speaker Pelosi and leader schumer on friday, and they talked about thean need to get urgent action. I mean, we need action during lame duck. D there is a lot of things that are going to have to wait until joe biden is president , but this is not one of them. Getting help to people, getting help to state and local governments. I mean, its not obviously, we need urgent help to individuals, but were going to see layoffs of police, of firefighters, of teachers, in the next month, in a lot of states and localities, unless these local governments get the aid they need. I knowth that Speaker Pelosis committed to that. I know leader schumers committed to that. This shouldnt be partisan. By the way, these layoffs are coming notay just in socalled blue states, but red states also. This is a national crisis. It needs bipartisan National Action now. Has the president elect spoken with Senate Republican leader Mitch Mcconnell yet about this issue or any issue . He has not. He has not spoken with senator mn cconnell about anything yet. Were hoping thatab senator mcconnell will accept the