Transcripts For MSNBCW Meet The Press 20190120

Now to this new bombshell report explosive new report. Bombshell new report about the president. The special counsels office shoots down a story claiming President Trump ordered Michael Cohen to lie to congress about the moscow trump tower project. I think that the buzzfeed piece was a disgrace to our country. Were journalists too willing to report a story they cannot confirm . Joining me for insight and analysis, joshua johnson, host of npr. Peter baker. And Nbc News National Political record. Welcome to sunday. Its meet the press. Announcer from nbc news in washington, the longest running show in television history, this is meet the press with chuck todd. Good sunday morning. Believe it or not, it was two years ago today that donald trump took the oath of office. Solemnly swearing to preserve, protect, and defend the constitution of the United States. Ultimately, the president s fate will be decided by the voters next year, or perhaps by congress if House Democrats do move on impeachment. The Government Shutdown is now in its 30th day. The spread between mr. Trumps approval and disapproval ratings has grown noticeably since the start of this shutdown. He went from ten points under water to 15, according to 538. Coms polling average. Perhaps with that in mind, President Trump yesterday made a new offer, extend some temporary protection from deportation for some undocumented immigrants in exchange for that 5. 7 billion that he wants for a permanent border wall. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi rejected the offer, even before the president spoke. But democrats are also getting a bit nervous, and theyre offering a billion dollars more in Border Security. They just dont want any of that money for a wall. At the same time, special counsel Robert Muellers russia report remains a potentially mortal threat to the trump presidency. Still, the more immediate crisis facing this country and the president is the shutdown. The best we can say, there is at least the two sides arent farther apart. Walls are not President Trump with a deal to end the Government Shutdown that Top Democrats are calling a nonstarter and hostage taking. 5. 7 billion for a strategic deployment of physical barriers, or a wall. Three years of legislative relief for 700,000 daca recipients. The temporary protections for socalled dreamers would not include a pathway to permanent legal status, and major dreamer groups and Democratic Leaders are panning it. With the shutdown dragging on and his poll numbers sagging, this week mr. Trump told his acting chief of staff, nick mulvaney, were getting crushed, according to the New York Times. Ive never seen the situation that america is in now, and a lot of it has to do with trust. I dont trust a lot of our politicians anymore. And hanging over the nation and mr. Trumps presidency, the New York Times report that the fbi opened an inquiry in 2017 into whether or not mr. Trump was working as a russian agent as president. The Washington Post report that President Trump has gone to extraordinary lengths to conceal his conversations with russian president Vladimir Putin. The acknowledgment by the president s lawyer that someone on his campaign may have colluded with russia. I never said there was no collusion between the campaign or between people in the campaign. Yes, you have. I have no idea. And then theres the upcoming testimony of mr. Trumps former longtime lawyer, Michael Cohen, to congress. Now to this new bombshell report. After a buzzfeed story claimed the special counsel has evidence that mr. Trump directed cohen to lie to Congress Last summer about plans for a trump tower in moscow, special Counsel Robert Mueller issued a rare statement on friday night refuting the story. Quote, buzzfeeds description of specific statements to the special counsels office and characterization of documents and testimony obtained by this office regarding Michael Cohens congressional testimony are not accurate. The statement appeared to put the brakes on the growing number of democrats in congress who said that the allegations, if true, would be grounds for beginning impeachment proceedings immediately. If the president directed Michael Cohen to lie to congress, then thats a clear case of participating in perjury and obstruction of justice. Its a total phony story, and i appreciate the special counsel coming out with a Statement Last night. And joining me now is President Trumps personal attorney, rudy giuliani. Mr. Giuliani, welcome back to meet the press, sir. Good morning, chuck. How are you . Im okay. Lets start with the big kerfuffle over the last 48 hours with buzzfeed. There were a lot of questions about what happened between Michael Cohen and donald trump, the special counsels office obviously pushed back on the buzzfeed story. So lets clear it up. On the record, once and for all, are you a hundred percent confident that the president never once asked Michael Cohen to do anything but tell the truth to congress . 100 certain of that. And also, i should add the buzzfeed story was a story that the president had counseled him or told him to lie and that there were tapes and texts and federal Law Enforcement sources, two of them, cited for it. I spent a great deal of the day on saturday with that because i knew from the very beginning it wasnt true. But i mean, to their credit, the Justice Department and the special counsels office said that the story was inaccurate. The inaccuracy is theres no evidence that the president told him to lie. Then to answer your question, categorically i can tell you his counsel to Michael Cohen throughout that entire period was tell the truth. We thought he was telling the truth. I still believe he may have been telling the truth when he testified before congress. In any event, his lawyers thought that. Our lawyers thought that. And the president thought that, at the time. Can you share now i dont know what to believe about him. Can you share what communication the president had with Michael Cohen about trump tower moscow, and can you share the last time they talked about trump tower moscow . Probably cant do that for two reasons. I wasnt his lawyer at the time. I just came into it in april, which now seems like two years ago, but its less than a year. Fair enough. Second, a lot of that would be privileged. I can tell you before the investigation, before the period theyre looking at they did have conversations about it. The conversations lasted throughout parts of 2016. The president is not sure exactly when they ended. I would say Michael Cohen would have a much better recollection of it than the president. It was much more important to him. That was his sole mission. The president was running for president of the United States. So you got to expect its not going to be a great deal of concentration on a project that never went anywhere. There was one letter of intent that was nonbinding. Thats the whole thing. I dont know if you call it a project even. You just said there that the president is not sure when talks ended. Im guessing you had to answer this question in written form by mr. Mueller. Right. So its your understanding it ended when, in january, as Michael Cohen incorrectly testified to . No. Okay. Well, its our understanding that they went on throughout 2016 there werent a lot of them, but there were conversations. Cant be sure of the exact dates. But the president can remember having conversations with him about it. Throughout 2016 . Yeah, probably up to could be up to as far as october, november. Our answers cover until the election. So any time during that period they could have talked about it. But the president s recollection of it is that the thing had petered out quite a bit. They sent a letter of intent in. They didnt even know where to send it. They knew so little about it. Up they finally got it straightened out. Then they abandoned the project. Thats about as much as he can remember of it because, remember, 2015, 2016, hes running against 16 people for president of the United States. And i know that. I was with him for like five months. All his concentration was 100 on running for president. Is it fair this was more of a project for Michael Cohen . Did it also involve donald trump jr. , ivanka trump, and eric trump . I dont know that. I dont except for knowledge of it i mean, if michael is at all telling the truth, he would have to acknowledge he was the key guy on this project. So hed be the one i mean, if things were normal and we werent worried hes lying, hed be the guy youd go to and say, tell us what happened. You ran this thing. Why do you think he decided, then so youre saying he decided on his own to Tell Congress that talks with trump tower moscow stopped in january of 16 . He did it in consultation with his lawyers. The same way according to bob mueller, he did it in consultation with some of the president s lawyers as well. Now, that could be true also. John dowd, jay sekulow, ty cobb were the lawyers then. It would be not uncommon since it was a joint Defense Agreement. I dont know if they participate in the preparation, but theyd certainly be told about it, just like he would be told about what other people are doing. Thats what a joint Defense Agreement is all about. Just to clarify, talks of trump tower moscow went as late as october or november of 2016, in some form. Could be. Could be. The president s recollection is i talked about it with him in 2015, 2016, cant tell you the exact sequence, cant tell you the exact dates. We talked about the project. We talked about the fact he was going to send in a nonbinding letter of intent. At some point, he came to me and informed me that it didnt go anywhere. Do you know why it didnt go anywhere . I dont, actually. I dont know why it didnt go anywhere, nor does the president really know exactly why. There are a lot of these things that happened in a business like his. You send in a letter of intent, and maybe one out of three, one out of four turns out to be a project. Its like a very early stage proposal. But this as far as the president was concerned, an active project to at least october or november of 2016, an active, potential deal. Yeah, i would say an active proposal. Its like my business. I make proposals to do security work. Probably got six of them out right now. If you were to ask me what countries am i going business in, id tell you the two im doing business in, not the other six, because i may never do business there. Let me ask you about what you said on cnn earlier this week about the issue of collusion. Let me play first your statement to mr. Cuomo and go from there. You just misstated my position. I never said there was no collusion between the campaign or between people in the campaign. Yes, you have. I have not. I said the president of the United States. Im going to play for you a collection of yourself and the president on this issue of collusion. Take a listen and ill get you to respond. Theres no collusion between me and my campaign and the russians. There was no collusion between us and russia. There was no collusion on my side. I can tell you that. Everybody knew it. Theres been no collusion between us and the russians. But there has been no collusion. They wont find any collusion. It doesnt exist. I know from having been on the campaign there was no contact with russians, no discussion with russians. All right. You have said you are now creating a specific that its just the president there was no collusion for. It does seem like a change. You said it is not. Why shouldnt we view this as a change . Ill tell you, because each time i said that back then and each time the president said it i shouldnt say each time. Most of the times i said it back then, i qualified it with, to my knowledge, which is of course all i would know. So if im saying theres no collusion on the campaign, of course i dont know everyone on the campaign. To my knowledge, theres no collusion on the campaign. I probably didnt qualify it every time i said it. In the case of chris, he asked me to qualify it. He asked me a question before that about, well, how would you know . I made it clear that i wouldnt know everything that happened. I represent the president. I know his knowledge, directly talking to him. Im in a strange position of having been intimately involved in a larger part of the campaign. I know what i know from that, no russian collusion. But how do i know if somebody i mean, like when papadopoulos came along, there was a big furor about how he might have been colluding with the russians. Turned out he wasnt. At the time that came up, i wouldnt have known if he was or he wasnt. Now i know he wasnt. Some people could watch you on this and say, you know, youve had to sort of change the context of how youre describing that story, to your knowledge, that you keep as you get more knowledge, you tell us more of the story. Are you confident your client is being 100 truthful to you . Yes, absolutely. I dont tell you more of the story. In the first month or two, i didnt know it. I had to learn it. Probably since may i havent learned any new facts except a few things that have come along. Actually if you drill down further on the story, if you ask me a general question, ill give you a general answer. If you ask me a specific question, ill give you a specific answer. Then i have the problem of being a lawyer, where i have to qualify. Like, ill say, you know, the conversation between mueller and the president , where the president said go easy on flynn. Now, that conversation did not take place as far as the president is concerned. He doesnt remember any such conversation. Then ill say, even if it took place, theres nothing illegal about it. That confuses people. When you say, even if it took place, its not illegal, people think youre admitting the conversation took place. Its a complexity that happens because i guess of the difficulty of this subject. Final question, mr. Barr, who during his confirmation hearing to be attorney general, explicitly stated that a sitting president could obstruct justice. Thats been in dispute with analysis from your legal team. You have heard mr. Barrs claim that, yes, a sitting president can obstruct justice. Do you accept his definition of that or do you still disagree . No, no i agree with him. But i dont phrase it quite that way, that he can obstruct justice. A president firing somebody who works for him if he does no other corrupt act other than just fire him, it can obstruct justice because thats what article 2 of the constitution gives to him solely. Not congress, not anybody else. If, for example, a president said, leave office or im going to, you know, have your kids kidnapped or im going to break your legs i prosecute a lot of obstruction cases. Ill give you an example. When the president said, please go easy on flynn, i know of no obstruction case that begins with the word please. It goes Something Like this, if you dont go easy on flynn, ill break your kneecaps. An obstruction case has to involve some degree of corrupt act other than just making a request or just exercising a legal function. Barr is a unique lawyer. Hes a superior lawyer. So i wouldnt if i were one of these lawyers arguing about this on television, i wouldnt go up against bill barr. Fair enough. Rudy giuliani, im going to end it there. I appreciate the time and appreciate you coming on. And for sharing your views. Thank you. You got it. Joining me now is the top democrat on the Senate Intelligence committee, senator mark warner of virginia. Welcome back to meet the press. Good morning. Obviously as a virginia senator, the shutdown is first and foremost on your mind. I get it. Its part of the reason why we wanted you on this morning. But mr. Giuliani seemed to make some news this morning we had not heard before, the trump tower moscow deal. Hes now saying it was an active, potential proposal, at least through october or november. Is that news to the Senate Intelligence committee . Thats news to me. That is big news. Why two years after the fact are we just learning this fact now when theres been this much inquiry . I got to tell you, chuck, i would think most voters, democrat, republican, independent, you name it that knowing that the republican nominee was actively trying to do business in moscow, that the republican nominee at least at one point had offered if he built this building Vladimir Putin a free penthouse apartment. And if those negotiations were ongoing while up until the election, i think thats a relevant fact for voters to know. I think its remarkable that were two years after the fact and just discovering it today. What does this mean to you . He throughout the Campaign Said i have no deals with russia, i have no business with russia. I think reasonable people would disagree that i have no business with russia and an active potential deal does sound like you want business with russia. Maybe hes got to parse the sentence here. What does that say to you about his does that does that question whether he should be in office . Well, it reinforces the fact that we have to finish our investigation, the senate investigation, which is still the only bipartisan one left. We need to have mueller finish. And what weve seen is and i dont often feel bad for rudy giuliani, this morning just seeing that interview, i almost feel bad for him. He keeps having to readjust his stories as more facts come out. So we now know that mr. Trump, or his operation, was still trying to do business with moscow up until his election. We now know that his campaign chairman, paul manafort, gave confidential information to a russian agent. We dont know what that russian agent did with that. We now know as welt and one of the questions im still trying to get answered is that frankly embarrassing meeting between trump and putin where on the world stage the president of the United States kowtowed to the russian president. I still dont know. They dont have to tell me, but i still dont know whether anyone in the Trump Administration at the most senior levels ever got a read out. That raises a whole host of questions that the American Public needs an answer to and the Congress Needs an answer to. You said earlier this week you expect to have Michael Cohen back in front of your committee in february as well. We know about his public testimony that hes agreed to give to the House Oversight committee. Have you gotten has he agreed to this yet . Were still in conversations. Chairman burr and i have agreed for some time we wanted to bring cohen back. Hes also agreed to testify publicly. I know the House Intel Committee is bringing him back as well. We particularly want him back because it was his original lies to our committee that got him into trouble. Those lies were saying there was no activities on the trump tower after january of 2017. Do you have evidence that somehow the president instructed mr. Cohen to lie . We want to get mr. Cohen to come before our committee and give testimony. Do you have any evidence im not going to go into any of the materials that we have. I do know it is one of the reasons where i think part of this information may reside, within the mueller investigation. Again, one of the critical reasons why we need assurances that that investigation will be able to be finished. It sounds like it sounds like a lot of democrats think you guys need to start pushing your investigation faster because mr. Mueller is taking too long. Where are you at on that . I want to get this done as fast as we can. I have as much frustration as anyone, but we have to do it in a thorough way. There are a number of key individuals who weve either not seen or need to come back. And were in those conversations right now. Was it news to you when the New York Times reported that a counterintelligence investigation was opened on the president . Again, im not going to comment on that story from the New York Times. Is that something, though, that if one had been opened that it would be information that would be shared with a select group of people . Im not going to comment on what goes on in the intelligence committee. All right. Let me move to the shutdown. I know the democrats have rejected the deal. I know democrats are working on their own counterproposal here. What are we to take away . Whats the public to take away from the fact the president went out and offered something, you may not like it, but he offered something. Democrats are going to offer a little something. Its not going to be anything for a barrier. Is that progress . Let me first of all step back and say lets make sure we all know whats at stake here. We have 800,000 workers that are either working or furloughed, not getting paid. We have hundreds of thousands of contractors. We think about the smithsonian here, all the folks who clean the toilets and serve the food arent getting paid. We have businesses that support those all across america. Senator murkowski from alaska showed a brewery in kodiak, alaska, empty yesterday because it was in a coast guard town. The starting point of this negotiation ought to be reopening the government. If were not, at least what we ought to be willing to do, because you think people have hurt so far, come this thursday theres going to be a second pay period without a check. And then the beginning of the month with all the bills coming due. The fact were going to go back and pay our federal employees back pay, lets at least pay them on thursday so they dont have to go through more angst. So you didnt keep the government shut down and get paid . I would start with opening the government. But can you get them paid while you still have this fight . We try to have some discussions. At least getting them paid would make some sense. Let me make clear that what the president proposed yesterday, increasing Border Security, looking at tps, looking at the dreamers, ill use that as a starting point, but youve got to start by opening the government. What we cannot do and ive had republicans as well recognize this is that we cannot reward the kind of behavior of hostage taking. Because if the president can arbitrary shut down the government now he will do it time and again. You do know, though, that already the hit to gdp is greater than the amount of money hes asked for. Weve already had a 7 billion hit to our economy. Hes asking for 5 billion. At what point is it not worth it . Listen, going into negotiations, im all for it. Increasing Border Security, im all for it. Some fencing . Youve voted for it before. Start with opening the government. The one thing id like to ask, chuck, you and the folks here at the studio, i dont think we give our federal employees enough benefit. Five weeks now without pay. Theyre still showing up to work. Theyre working overtime. How many folks in this studio would come to work this morning if theyd gone five weeks without pay . Its a very fair question, and i think you would have a very empty studio. Senator mark warner, democrat from virginia, thank you for coming on. Sharing your views. Much appreciated. When we come back, the shutdown, russia, and calls among democrats to start impeachment hearings. The panel is next. About my family history. Went to ancestry, i put in the names of my grandparents first. I got a leaf right away. A leaf is a hint that is connected to each person in your family tree. I learned that my ten times great grandmother is George Washingtons aunt. Within a few days i went from knowing almost nothing to holy crow, im related to george washington. 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Seriously, 5 minutes. This is banking reimagined. Whats in your wallet . Hey, batter, batter, [ crowd cheers ] like everyone, i lead a busy life. But i know the importance of having time to do what you love. At comcast we know our customers time is valuable. Thats why we have 2hour appointment windows, including nights and weekends. So you can do more of what you love. My name is tito, and im a techhouse manager at comcast. Were working to make things simple, easy and awesome. Welcome back. The panel is here. Joshua johnson, host of 1a on npr, Danielle Pletka of the American Enterprise institute. Nbc News National political correspondent, and peter baker of the New York Times. Theres two ways to look at these shutdown proposals. One is its going nowhere. The other is mark warner said there, okay, im willing to accept the president as the starting point. He made an inch towards the democrats. Democrats made an inch. You know. Its not half full, but theres condensation in the glass. For 29 days, all we had was give me the money or dont give me the money. It was one thing on the table. Neither side was budging. Now were putting other things on the table. Were expanding the problem so there, in fact, can be multiple aspects to give each side something they can live with. You can see the makings of a deal here. Youre right. At the moment, it doesnt seem like its likely to happen in the next 24, 48 hours. Theyre still stuck on im not going to negotiate on that, im not going to negotiate on this. If the president wanted a deal, im not sure coming out on television to make the first proposal is the way to do it. Im not sure rejecting it before it was made is the way to do it. You can see the beginnings of negotiations. Were now in a place where people are actually beginning to move. So heres what happened. Basically, Jared Kushner and mike pence were up on the hill this week. They met with Mitch Mcconnell. They left, Mitch Mcconnell picked up the phone and called the president and said, mr. President , nancy pelosi is not going to budge. Youve got to do something to shake this up. Just put something on the table. This is wholly a proposal from the white house. That is the problem. Even though we saw some movement in terms of the wall itself, the president conceding for the first time this is not a contiguous wall, also giving a little bit on daca, it is not anywhere close to what the democrats would want in terms of the money being directed towards the infrastructure needed at ports of entry, drones, more people on the border. There is stuff in there on increased Border Security thats not wall, but theyre still far apart on the specifics. Heres the most important thing. You heard mark warner say this. According to the democrats ive talked to, they really are going to stay united when it comes to the principle of this negotiation taking place when the government is open and not closed. Interesting. Well, close, no . You dont see progress . Dont look at me. And lets be clear. No one in this room knows when the shutdown is going to end. Lets knock that right out. Theres no clear path. I think part of the reason is because this is no longer purely pragmatic or practical politics. This is a moral issue. I think the shutdown is kind of a symptom of something larger. The wall is a Campaign Promise the president made to play on something very deeply held that his Political Base feels. If you want to look for an image that speaks to this, its probably those protesters who were on the steps of the lincoln memorial, the native american man beating the drum, nathan phillips, and those kids and the make America Great again hats that were kind of smirking at him and looking down their noses at him. Thats the real image. Thats the real emblem of this. This is about xenophobia. For Many Americans, this is about race. This is about rhetoric thats reached a point where its ground the government to a halt. Nancy pelosi said a wall is an immorality. How do you make a political solution to a moral quandary . It seems like the entire political establishment has painted itself into a place where the practical nature of politics could solve this. For Many Americans, for many people of color, im not speaking for all people of color, for the Rashida Tlaib in this country, for the alexandria ocasiocortez in this country, theyre tired of these solutions. He brought up perhaps the box democrats have painted themselves in, the morality. Then you have the a word when it comes to the right, which is amnesty. Any little protection for anybody thats not here legally is somehow amnesty. The president tweeted this, this morning. No, amnesty is not part of my offer. It is a threeyear extension of daca. Amnesty will be used only on a much bigger deal, whether on immigration or something else. Likewise, there will be no big push to remove the 11 million plus people here illegally. But be careful, nancy. The amnesty word, we know that that can suddenly splinter the right. Theres a lot of history behind these immigration problems. Its not just something that came up between donald trump and nancy pelosi. This goes back to 1986 and the original deal that was struck with the reagan administration, which most people dont even remember. That was the amnesty question. You know, i think what weve seen is that while donald trump had painted himself into a corner, the reality is we may not like it. We may not agree with him, but he has moved. And it is a mistake on the part of the speaker to come out of the box and not accept the idea that we like the idea of a threeyear extension. Sure, we want to do better. We could accept a 700mile or so border, a fence. The democrats, every sitting democrat in the senate, voted for just such a thing a mere five years ago. The problem that you have is when you start suggesting that anyone who wants a wall or no, not anyone. I dont want to be unfair to you. Many who want this are racist, it causes a real hardening on the other side. There are plenty of people, including 35plus democratic senators, who wanted a wall, signed up to a wall, and who i dont think are racists. Bottom line, if you take the emotion out of this debate, its solved tomorrow. Right . Exactly right. I think joshs point is exactly right. What used to be a relatively pragmatic discussion about a little of this, a little of that in 2006, many republicans and democrats voted for the Security Defense act. Today it has become a moral issue on both sides in different ways. Very hard to meet in the middle. There are experts who do believe there are certain kind of barriers in certain parts of the border that make perfect sense. We interviewed a Border Patrol expert on our program who said especially in urban areas where there are plenty of places for smugglers to duck and dive behind the buildings around down alleys, physical barriers can make a real difference in terms of securing the border. Saying its inherently immoral may be true in some peoples hearts, but there are pragmatic ways in which certain kinds of barriers along certain parts of the border have helped. Theres a deal to be had. Its not going to be had according to the democrats when the government is closed because you saw other conservative based groups say lets have a shutdown is over planned parenthood funding. This really is, for democrats, about the principle. If this continues to go on, which party is more vulnerable to seeing more splintering off here . I feel like youve got those trump House Democrats. Youve got those Senate Republicans in blue states. Seems like theyre both wobbly here. I think right now nancy pelosi is at more risk because shes facing exactly what two republican speakers faced up to, which is her own version of the freedom caucus, her own version of the tea party who are going to turn on her like vipers. I think Mitch Mcconnells move here with getting trump to make this proposal was also meant to move this to the senate. So i would look to those senate democrats, those moderate democrats, which is why i reached out to joe manchin last night. He gave a very kind of nebulous statement, but it did say lets open the government which brings me back to the same point i keep making. And as you heard mark warner there, maybe we can pay them. You can tell theres some movement. All right. Lets pause it there. Coming up, as he enters his third year in office, President Trump is counting on continued support from Congressional Republicans on a number of issues. Will he get it . A top House Republican, liz cheney, joins me next. 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Trumps fate on everything from the shutdown to mueller to 2020 are House Republicans. And joining me this morning is the chair of the House Republican conference, thats the number three position in leadership on the republican side, liz cheney or wyoming. Welcome to meet the press. Thank you very much, chuck. Great to be with you. Let me start with the shutdown. Wyoming, as folks are going to see, is one of the most impacted states by this shutdown. I think one of the five most impacted outside of the region here. The president s proposal seemed to inch. Democrats are talking about more money for Border Security but no barrier. Are we closer or is this rhetoric . Its certainly more than rhetoric on our side. I think what you saw the president do yesterday was one more time put a proposal on the table. Its very difficult to understand when youve got the president s proposal that obviously includes money for the border wall, also includes an extension for the daca folks, also includes an extension for tps. Those are issues, daca in particular, that Speaker Pelosi commandeered the floor of the house of representatives for eight hours less than a year ago on particularly this issue of helping to ensure that people that are here, the so called dreamers are not deported. So for her now to just simply reject out of hand when the president actually has said, okay, lets look at ways we can come closer, you know, it shows you theyre just not interested in negotiating. Why should the democrats accept something temporary in exchange for something permanent . Well, look in fairness to them. What were talking about is we have to secure the border and get the government open. As your last panel talked about, the democrats in the senate, including senator warner, have voted for 700 miles, actually, of a border barrier, back in 2013. So we really want to come to an agreement here. The president really wants to come toon agreement here. Hes put offers on the table. The responsible thing for the democrats to do is put a counteroffer on the table if you dont like this one. Senator warner seemed to suggest maybe theres a way to pay people, pay some of these workers now, even if you dont open up the government. Not miss another pay period. Would you support some sort of temporary solution like that this week just to keep things going . The House Republicans voted to do just that, and the democrats voted against it. We had a handful of democrats who joined us on one of our motions to recommit that would do exactly that. Pay people even if the government stays closed . Thats right. We think its very important that people get paid. I think its very hard to defend the notion that were asking people to come to work and not be paid. But at the end of the day, there is a solution here. The democrats, you know, the rhetoric here has really gotten above and beyond. When the president s offer is rejected before he stands up to give his speech, that tells you something about what their approach is here. Did what the president offer, is that how you would define amnesty . Is that a fair critique from some on the right the president s offers are amnesty. No, its not amnesty. What he said is, look, lets have an extension for three years of these two programs, and lets do that so we can come to the table to talk about whats necessary for broader immigration reform. It isnt amnesty. Frankly, it is a really important step forward, but again, i come back to the fact that Speaker Pelosi has said she will be a champion of the dreamers. So when shes willing to play games, when shes willing to pull political stunts, but shes not actually willing to come up with solutions, that makes it very difficult to come to an agreement here. Finding a permanent solution for the dreamers with a path to citizenship, any form of that, when does that become amnesty in your mind . Well, look, well have to see what happens. We have to get the government open. We have to focus on what comes next. But at this point but what i described is not you dont think thats amnesty. Right . What the president has put forward is not amnesty. What the president has done is say, absolutely, our first and most important obligation is to secure the border. And the fact that the democrats are talking about lets have open borders, lets abolish i. C. E. , they say theyre for Border Security on some level, yet theyre not even willing as Speaker Pelosi said provide 1 for it. Its a purely partisan game she is playing and she ought to stop it for the good of the nation. Let me move to some Foreign Policy issues. Here was the president yesterday on the White House South Lawn talking about the potential withdrawal of troops in syria. Take a listen. In two years, weve, i guess, reduced it to about 99 of the territorial caliphate. Were killing isis for russia, for iran, for syria, for iraq, for a lot of other places. At some point you want to bring our people back home. I know youve been to the white house to talk about your concerns about too quick of a pullout there. Does that make you feel better, or does that sound like a president that still wants to move a little faster on this pullout than you do . Look, i think whats very important to recognize is that we have to make sure that we finish the job. If you look at the so 99 in your mind is not finishing the job . Its not. If you look at the mistakes barack obama made when he pulled out of iraq precipitously, when he declared the war ended and the war certainly wasnt ended. We end up with chaos in the aftermath. In a place like syria, what our special Operations Forces are doing there is crucially important. In order to be able to provide air support, some artillery support, weve got to ensure that isis is destroyed. Because if you walk away before theyre destroyed, then they have the ability to create safe havens to launch attacks against us again. Some will say theres always an isis, theres always an al qaeda. Theyre just going to change their name. So it means were always going to be there. What do you say to folks that think that your definition means were always going to have troops in the middle east. We have to fight them there so they dont fight us here. The definition of victory in the middle east, the definition of victory in afghanistan, in syria is that we dont have another 9 11. So weve got to recognize that the kind of enemy were facing can, with very little territory, very little resources, have bases from which they can plot and plan and launch attacks. We have an obligation to make sure they dont do that. Before i let you go, congressman steve king has basically decided youre the reason why hes being maybe shoved out of office, shoved out of the party. I got to play something he said about you earlier this week. Take a listen. You cant put her in the category of ever being a conservative again. Shes called for my resignation. Shes been here two years. And you know, what would give her the moral authority or the intellectual judgment to do Something Like that . Ill just give you a chance to respond. Well, look, i think pretty clear and our entire house leadership was clear last week. His comments were abhorrent. They were racist. Under the guidance of leader mccarthy, we stripped him of his committee assignments, and i think theres simply no place for that language in any of our censure next . As i said last week, i think he ought to go find another line of work. Liz cheney, thank you. Number three in the house leadership, thank you for coming on. When we come back, you know that 800,000 federal employees are out of work, but did you know its a problem for many people far away from washington, d. C. . Stick around. Memories. What we deliver by delivering. Discover. O i like your card, but im absolutely not paying an annual fee. Discover has no annual fees. Really . Yeah. We just dont believe in them. Oh nice. You would not believe how long ive been rehearsing that. No annual fee on any card. Only from discover. [indistinct conversation] [friend] ive never seen that before. I have. You might or joints. Hing for your heart. I have. But do you take something for your brain. With an ingredient originally discovered in jellyfish, prevagen has been shown in Clinical Trials to improve shortterm memory. Prevagen. Healthier brain. Better life. But some give their clients cookie cutter portfolios. Fisher investments tailors portfolios to your goals and needs. Some only call when they have something to sell. Fisher calls regularly so you stay informed. And while some advisors are happy to earn commissions whether you do well or not. Fisher investments fees are structured so we do better when you do better. Maybe thats why most of our clients come from other money managers. Fisher investments. Clearly better money management. Welcome back. Data download time. We are one month into this shutdown, and americans across the country are feeling the impact beyond just the capital beltway. Outside of washington, d. C. , maryland, and delaware, the states with the highest proportion of federal workers impacted by the shutdown are south dakota, montana, wyoming, new mexico, and alaska. Federal employees in these states primarily work for interior, agricultural, and health and human services. And its folks like these across the country whove already gone more than a month without a paycheck, who could start to have a tough time making ends meet. In fact, according to the real estate site zillow, this month alone, unpaid federal workers owe 438 million in mortgage and rent payments. And of the workers impacted, almost 111,000 make less than 50,000 per year, according to the Washington Post. Now, this shutdown has cast a spotlight on just how Many Americans are one missed paycheck away from a personal financial crisis. In fact, according to a survey by bank rate, less than half of americans, just 40 , could cover an unexpected 1,000 expense, like a car repair or emergency room visit, from savings. Others said they would need to pay with a credit card, borrow from family or friends, or simply take out a personal loan. The broader impact on the economy is starting to become apparent as well. Bloomberg estimates federal contractors could be losing as much as 200 million a day in lost or delayed revenue. Delta Airlines Says its already lost 25 million in revenue due to lost government flights. A month in, this shutdown is having a real impact both inside and outside the washington, d. C. , area. And we dont yet know the Ripple Effect on everything from lunch spots and coffee shops to uber drivers. But we do know its causing real pain for real people. And the question for policymakers may be, when is it simply too much . When we come back, were going to talk about that buzzfeed story about Michael Cohen and whether journalists were too quick to report a story that they could not confirm. Coming up, end game and postgame, brought to you by boeing, continuing our mission to connect, protect, explore, and inspire. And i dont add up the years. But what i do count on, is staying happy and healthy. So, i add protein, vitamins and minerals to my diet with boost®. Boost® high protein nutritional drink has 20 grams of protein, along with 26 essential vitamins and minerals your body needs. All with guaranteed great taste. The upside im just getting started. Boost® high protein be up for life. Ive been really tryin, baby tryin to hold back this feeling for so long and if you feel, like i feel baby then come on, oh come on lets get it on applebees all you can eat is here. Now thats eatin good in the neighborhood. End game, brought to you by boeing, continuing our mission to connect, protect, explore, and inspire. Back now with end game and the back now with end game and the buzzfeed bombshell that wasnt. And unbelievable decision by the special Prosecutors Office to actually say no, a story is wrong. A lot of people now know this story but let me pum the special counsels statement up one more time from pete carr the special counsels office and characterization of documents and testimony obtained by this Office Recording Michael Cohens congressional testimony are not accurate. Saturday, buzzfeed is still sticking by their story. Heres their statement. As weve reconfirmed our reporting, weve seen no indication that any specific aspect of our story is inaccurate. We remain confident in what weve reported and will share more as we are able to. Peter baker and heidi, you both deal a lot with the special counsels office in various ways. Just explain how unprecedented this was. Absolutely unprecedented. Theres been thousands of stories that have gone out on russia, and the special counsels office has said nothing. The fact it felt compelled to answer to this was really significant. I think on the hill, there was also a pressure coming because you had some members, and i want to say that they were not leadership and they were not the committee chairs, but you had some democrats starting to use the i word and starting to say, mueller, if youve got this evidence, you have to bring it forward now. So there were those two confluences of events happening that i think compelled him to say something. We dont know, though i dont think we should get ahead of our skis on this story, because we dont know everything that was wrong in the story. It is notable that buzzfeed continues to stand by it. So i think theres more iterations of this to come. Peter, though, i think the bigger thing is the entire media world. We could all say we did the if trues, and we said we could not confirm. Thats all true. It was something the entire media world was telling the public, this is probably true. By the way, we covered this. Now look. Buzzfeed has got an lot of things right. Lets not forget that. They have had a number of important scoops on this. I think there was some credibility, it seemed like, on the front end to what they were saying, but our people werent able to confirm it the way it was reported. I think that gave us obviously a lot of pause, and it should. The problem is, in the old days, you know, when one media organizations competitor got something wrong, you would sit back and say, haha. Now unfortunately, its blowback on all of us. We all own all of the media in effect. Anybody gets anything wrong, its used as a weapon against all of us and against all of the other thousands of stories heidi just mentioned. I think the fact the special counsel chose to correct this one says that they werent troubled by the vast majority of those thousands of other stories and a lot of the reporting has been, in fact, pretty right. Thats, by the way, the danger of the special counsels office deciding to speak out on one story. Does it do that, confirm every other . Can we just be clear on two things . One, the American Public by and large do not trust the folks inside the beltway or in the press. And two, the American People want this to be over. Were tired. This is like the slowest, longest, most drawnout drama. And whatever story is going to make this end, i think a lot of people are kind of eager for. The buzzfeed story kind of has that patina. Its the smoke from the smoking gun. And if, indeed, it leads to the gun from whence the smoke ori n originated, boom, we can start this story and time to start game of thrones in april and we only have one drama to deal with. First of all, its a good thing the larger Media Establishment was able to talk about this. We all read our own different papers from our own political silos. There never would have been a correction. It would have ended up in the paper that spoke to your point of view. No one else would have seen it. We never would have gotten the facts right. This is where the era of the internet helps. Overall, i feel like this is another part of this drama that the American People and folks inside the beltway are saying, can we wrap this up, please snmpk. The problem is the fake news problem. Any time that somebody gets something so spectacularly wrong and everybody piles on, it furthers the narrative that this is yet another American Institution that the people of our country cant trust. Thats the problem with the buzzfeed story. No, it is. And we got to remind people, though there are people that want to exploit this, they want to see us be put this way, and theyre doing it for exploitation purposes. So lets not give them the ammunition. Thank you, all, for today. Thank you for watching and trusting us. Have a happy and safe Martin Luther king jr. Holiday weekend. Get your ice skates out here in washington. Well be back next week, because if its sunday, its meet the press. 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The president moving to end the longest squlou longest shutdown in history, offering a deal for daca. We will find out what it will take to reopen the government as hundreds of thousands of federal workers strug to