Convicters murderers and their regrets over ever picking up a gun. I took his buddy away from him. Me . How does that sit with me . Im chuck todd and joining me for insight and analysis this sunday are the New York Times david brooks Eugene Robinson of the Washington Post, Helene Cooper and gerald seib. Welcome to sunday, its meet the press. Good morning. This is the scene outside the Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church this sunday morning where the congregation is gathering for the First Service since a gunman murdered nine people there on wednesday evening at bible study. The victims, rev end clementa pinckney, sanders ethel lance, Myra Thompson rev end middletondoctor. Reverend Daniel Simmons sr. , ms. Jackson and cynthia hurd. It was the worst racial attack in decades. It brings back horrific memories the civil rights activist in june of 1964 in mississippi. In charleston the process of healing has already begun, that was shown when family members of the victims showed such remarkable dig any for the killer dylann roof. First, i want to go to my colleague ron allen outside mother emanuel this morning. Tell me about the scene out there on what looks like a very nice sunny sunday morning. Reporter it is chuck but its also a very emotional time a disturbing time a very powerful moment. People have been gathering at the church throughout the week paying their respect, public mourning grief and sorrow. Also a time for healing and a time to celebrate the lives of nine souls whose lives are lost. This church has existed in this congregation for 200 years. At the other time it was at the forefront of slave encarnations. Icons like michael king jr. And others have worshipped here. And North Charleston is not as far from here where walter scott was killed by a North CharlestonPolice Officer not long ago. Today is about healing, celebrating the lives of those who lost their lives and trying to move this community forward. A real sense this could be a turning point for the community fnt the rest of the nation as well. Charleston has been amazing in all this. Ron allen, thanks much. Reverend Daniel Simmons sr. Was one of the victims wednesday night at bible study. He not only served paritionor, he was also a vietnam war veteran. His family joins us who met the man in court and said, hate wont win. Thank you, simmons family, for joining us this morning. I join with the entire country in offering condolences. Thank you. Alan thata, let me start with you. Hate wont win why was it important to send that message . All of this week when the family spoke, i was actually inspired by some of the other families who immediately forgave the suspect when they had the opportunity to speak to him. And that made me think of how strong love is. And although my grandfather and the other victims died at the hands of the hatred of this man the love of the community and the love of christ and the just the love of all of the families for the victims was so overwhelming that it outweighed the hate he had. Dan yeshlgs tell me about your dad. My dad was a loving father. He was a great inspirational leader. He cared for his family, his community, his faith and he loved god. What would he say how the community should respond to this horrific attack. What would he be telling you . What do you think he would say to you if he were here to sort of bring the community together. First of all, i would like to thank the city of charleston, how they have come together and shown unity and love. He would be so overwhelmed with how everyone has been unified to act on one accord. My grandfather really loved charleston. One of our best memories of him was coming down two summers ago and he took us on this grand tour of charleston and he kept talking about how great the people of charleston were. And we saw that. We saw that this week. Alana, a lot of people want to use this incident to have a bigger conversation, to try to do something. Racialle reconciliation, guns, a lot of issues people want to grab onto. What do you want the country to take away from this . What do you want our country to be having and our political leaders to be having a conversation about . We elect not to talk about politics and policies or race issues at this time. At this time we just want to focus on our grandfather and the other victims and making sure the families and communities heal and move on from this tragedy. Daniel the importance of his faith, the importance of faith to everybody in that room that is mourning your father, explain it. Its easily explained. Its love. That was a good answer. We love each other. We love our grandfather and the outpour of love from the community and the officials, from our community in Hampton Roads virginia, its given us all of us i would like to say, a grace. Your family is quite an example for all of us in this country. Reconciliation, forgiveness, love, faith. Unbelievable. My condolences. Charleston has been a great example to the rest of the country as well. We just really, really appreciate how everyone has come toeshgs together, peechl all races all orientations gender. Prayer vigil friday night, everyone was there. It was so overwhelming and so wonderful to see everyone coming together. Not to bash or to talk about the suspect, but to celebrate the lives and to heal together. Its too bad that it took a tragedy like this to make it happen, but perhaps if this is what comes out of it maybe were a Better Society for it. Thank you, simmons family. Thank you. Im joined by the democratic congressman from South Carolina, james clyburn. Of course, welcome back to meet the press. Congress, my condolences. Thank you very much for having me. Thank you very much. These folks were constituents and personal friends. Tell me about your friendships. First off, thank you so much for having me. Speaking with his family, he and i are the last age. Last time i did a Morning Service at emanuel, i think he was a pastor there at the time. Ive gotten to know his family very very well his inlaws, constituents. Pinckney this guy was absolutely the salt of the earth. I first met him whefsn he was a student here at Allen University in columbia. And, of course, his hometown, home church, all in my district. Emanuel is just one block out of my congressional district. Malcolm graham has been on various shows this morning, his sister cynthia was one of my daughters best friends. She was a librarian, like my wife. Theres so much interwolfeven in here. Middleton, he called himself my ame campaign manager. I know these people personally. Congressman youre from a generation that was in the middle of the civil rights movement. You saw the pain and protests of the 60s some attacks that took place in the 60s. Did you think this was at all possible, that Something Like this could happen in the 21st century . Unfortunately, chuck, i did. Ive been saying my friends in the Congressional Black Caucus will tell you. Ive been saying theres a rightwing drift thats going too far. People get emboldened by all this. We hear all this discussion about the confederate battle flag. Whats so interesting about that, chuck, thats not the Confederate Flag. Thats a battle flag that flies in front of the state house. Thats a flag of rebellion. We would not be having this discussion if that were the Confederate Flag or the flag of the confederacy of america. That flag is not a symbol of hate. When you see the resurrection of this, a young man 21 years old wearing apartheid things on his shirt, burning the u. S. Flag, certainly youre creating a climate that allow this kind of thing to happen. About ten years ago you led a compromise effort on the flag and there was democratic president ial candidates threatening boycotts and you were trying to be the peacemaker back then of saying, lets find a compromise on that flag. Looking back, had you just pushed harder to say, wish you wouldnt have compromised . No sir. If they just followed the compromise, we wouldnt be here. The compromise was to put the flag in front of the Office Building in flont of the the way it happened statue. The legislature out of defiance put that flag where it is today in front of the state house. That is not what the compromise was. The compromise was to put it on the backside of the state house, out of public view, so it would not have any appearance of sovereignty. Thats not what the legislature did. Theyre coming back here to do the budget, they can very well take it up. They keep saying it takes twothirtsdz totwo twothirds to bring it down. Thats true. But it only takes a simple majority to get rid of the twothirds law. Interesting way to put it. Senator clyburn, thank you for coming on meet the press. I know its a rough rough morning at church today. Thank you so much for having me. The panel is here, New York Times, david brooks, Eugene Robinson of thethe Washington Post and Helene Cooper, pentagon pentagon, and gerald seib. Eugene, i start with you, this is your home . Yes. My uncle had a blacksmiths shop around the corner so it is personal. To what congressman clyburn said just now, quickly on the flag issue. Do you know when that flag was first flown at the state house . 1961. Not 1861. Exactly. 1961. And why . Well, it was es forgive this but give the middle finger. It was all this nonsense of honoring the valor of southern manhood 150 years ago. They didnt have any urge to do that for a century after the civil war. It was only after brown v. Board, after little rock, after desegregation began. South carolinans adopted it as part of their state flags. It was massive resistance. Let me put up the two flags. You heard congressman clyburn mention one is actually not the Confederate Flag. The actual flag of the confederacy is the one on the left with the circle stars. What is known as the Confederate Flag today is the battle flag of the north Virginian Army led by robert e. Lee that was sort of adopted in the 60s. David brooks you write about character, morality. Your reaction to all of this. I didnt think in the 21st century we would have racebased massacres. Well, there were two sides of the seats. The massacre, the shocking sides and the families reactions and what we saw at the top of the show was an equally newsworthy event. Someone used grace. To see that human reaction, and natural action is hatred with hatred ee veng are we veng but what we saw in the courtroom and just now, lives transformed by faith people walk the walk, talking the talk. Heres a bunch of families who have forgiven that. Donald trump was the story this week. Anything more opposite of wanting to discuss in america . Youre absolutely right. I just thought that was first a beautiful example of what faith can play in our lives. We have this online poll conducted by survey monkey we asked what does the Confederate Flag symbolize . Its split right down the middle. I wonder if thats a racism process when it comes to the confederate battle flag. We could be talking about how wonderful charleston is and peer talking about the flag. People in South Carolina are asking themselves, is that the conversation we want to have or not . I think not. People like to tend to think racial issues behind us. Africanamericans do not think that. Can i just tell you, the president s first head of the white house faith based initiative, he wrote this in the bale beast, will we convince ourselves of the delusion that this is the only one who is sick or will we examine our National Conscious and get ourselves well. One of those steps has to be the white occur actual. We say we have to have a conversation with blacks and whites but we never call on White America to look inward. No we dont. I thought it was an extraordinary essay. I was glad to see he wrote that. I dont know if im necessarily to be the person to talk about White America at the dinner table but we the media dont calling on when we talk about race. We talk about blacks and whites having a conversation. I know when i first got hired by the wall street journal and i had not really been very south before. I was hired in the Atlanta Bureau of the wall street journal, driving across the border and realizing at the time 1994 the Georgia State flag had the Confederate Flag on it. As a black woman, i blanched. I cant describe four, when you see that battle flag for me its a symbol of hatred. Its very hard for me to cross that bridge and understand i understand a lot of people in the south believe this is heritage but im just as a black woman, i see that and its a tough one for me. Were going to pick up this conversation a little later in the show. When we come back were also going to pick up the other subject thats been brought up after this massacre, guns. A unique look at gun violence in america. Its a video of inmates who committed murder talking about their regrets about ever picking up a firearm. And they say to themselves if im careful, if im careful, i can reach this good thing as wish your skin could bounce back like it used to . New neutrogena hydro boost water gel. With hyaluronic acid it plumps skin cells with intense hydration and locks it in. For supple, hydrated skin. Hydro boost. From neutrogena. Introducing a whole new way to enhance your eyes. Its 1day acuvue® define™ brand contact lenses. The eye enhancement lenses that comfortably accentuate your eyes natural beauty. Ask your doctor today about 1day acuvue® define™ brand. Every country has violent, hateful or mentally unstable people. Whats different is that not every country is a wash with easily accessible guns. And so i refuse to act as if this is the new normal. Or to pretend that its simply sufficient to grieve and that any mention of us doing something to stop it is somehow politicizing the problem. That was president obama friday in the wake of the charston massacre on the issue of availability of guns in america. Earlier we heard the moving words of family members of the victims. This morning we wanted to take a look at american gun violence from a different perspective. From that of the person pointing the gun. We have a remarkable video to show you. Nbc news producer volunteered to make a video about gun violence on his own time with convicted murderers at sing sing the infamous prison north of new york city. The circumstances you are about to see are very different from the racist violence in charleston. In this case the inmates are africanamerican that youll hear from but their lessons remain important. We simply ask you to look at this as a color blind issue and just simply about gun violence. Dan put these folks alone with a camera and asked them to do something unique. Talk to their 12yearold selves. What would they say now that could have made them put down the gun that ended a life and landed them in prison . My name is tyler abraham. Im 40 years old. I made a choice of guns that i held in my hands. A gun when i first held one gave me a sense of power. It made me feel strong. It made me feel like i was invincible. You could be the bad thing that happens to somebody. Think about that right . There could be a family theres a child and a father and theres a mother and theres a family. They come here from africa to build a better life and they say to themself if im careful, if im careful, then i can reach this good thing as long as nothing bad happens. And then i happen to him. You want to be the bad . You want to be the bad . When i was 17 one of my friends suggested to me why dont you carry a gun . You need this. So i took up a gun. I held it. And then this gun became my security. The bullet shot into the crowd were real last night at a premiere of the movie godfather 3. I head to the Movie Theater with a group of friends. Another group of teens came in yelling. Pretty soon an argument erupt twed that group and my group. One of them pulled out a gun and fired it. I returned fire. Police rushed in to find four innocent victims wounded in the crossfire. Two of them teenagers, including tremayne hall. I didnt think i was going to hit anybody, but i did it anyway. A little boy was shot. He died that night. And its that fast and its over and its done and you dont even know what you did. And by the time you understand it is too late. When i think of that i think of what happened at my trial. His father got on the stand. His father called this kid his buddy. That was his buddy. I took his buddy away from him. Me. How does that sit with me . David, you write a lot about character and culture in general. Its usually among always when you do passed around things. The political conversation is one conversation on guns. This is a different way to have it. First thanks to coming for me first. That was tough. That was powerful. You know i think what comes out of it youve got so many young men who feel psychologically weak and then the gun is the source of power. Its all they have got. They in some cases dont have privilege and we saw this in the charleston kids photo of him with the guns. It has the psychological effect the gun is my thing. That one man described the security he felt holding it. So thats a powerful look at how the gun becomes the psychological totem of who i am. Its almost as if using the gun is going to be the expression of how i make a difference in the world. That is a distorting cultural effect of just the physical presence of a gun in the hands of someone who feels he has nothing else. Gene, changing a law, passing a law isnt going to change the culture. No. But passing the right law, passing a law that were frankly not going to pass would take a lot of guns out of circulation and make the gun not t