Transcripts For MSNBCW Joe 20240706

We will be remembered in spite of ourselves. Those words were spoken by Abraham Lincoln in 1862 and they serve as a powerful warning to a congress that remained deadlocked over slavery. It remained all to ambivalent over the mothers, the fathers, the children who were enslaved across the United States. Of course, lincoln was right. Histories judgment was fierce. It was politically craven and morally corrupt politicians, editors, and Opinion Shapers Who Fought Emancipation Every Step of the way, they could not outrun histories searing grasp. 160 when theres remain marked by their actions and missions. The bibles cane, those cursed with that mark will be found guilty for centuries to come. Just as it was when the Blood Red Stain Streaked across the decade since both connor and the segregationist of the 1960s brutalized those who believed in the self evident truth and that all men and women are created equal. Defenders of that institutionalized racism degraded Black Americans and forever marked those moderates who silently stood by, too scared to speak up against the most extreme elements of their base. Even after four little girls were blown up in birmingham, alabama, killed or are going to their Sunday School classes, which brings us to this time. Our time. Republican politicians idly stand by as americans childrens and parents are slaughtered, slaughtered in churches still, so slaughtered in schools, still. Slaughtered a Country Music festivals and outlet malls, and in their own homes. All because these cowards Fear Gun Lobbyists more than they fear the next uvalde. Parkland, or sandy hook. Those enablers of Slave Holders and segregationists, these timid, empty, pathetic souls care more about beating back next years rightwing Primary Challenge than they do saving young childrens lives. But there is no doubt that these evacuees creatures will not escape histories thunderous verdict. The evidence of their guilt is overwhelming. Over 1400 deaths by guns already this year. Over 200 Mass Shootings over the first five months of 2023. More than 600 children killed already in 2023, continuing the horrifying reality that guns are the number one cause of death among american children. The Skyrocketing Rise in violent gun deaths even since sandy hook a decade ago, the explosion of gun deaths in texas since 2014 because of radical gun laws that put Deadly Weapons in the hands of the untrained, mentally unstable and people. Over that same time, one Mass Shooting after another Mass Shooting, after another Mass Shooting plays out over our smartphones and tvs. In texas and across america, after each texas massacre, Governor Abbott mumbles meaningless assurances, desperately trying to distract from the weapon that is killing our children, guns. More specifically, he celebrates, he celebrates the proliferation of guns and the weapons of war, even after sunderland springs, even after el paso, even after uvalde. And now cleveland. And now allen. And soon, the next school how leader that greg abbott and every other texas politician knows, tragically, is sure to come. As a lifetime gun owner, a longtime hunter, and a dear friend told me earlier today, this is not who we are. As it was with slavery, segregation, nazism, 9 11, and january the 6th, we will one day move beyond this awful chapter in american history. But we are not going to do it before more innocent souls die from gunfire in schools, synagogues, churches, and in Shopping Malls. No. We cannot escape history. We will be remembered in spite of ourselves. So let us then redouble our efforts, do our part, raise our voices, volunteer our time, one for office and, for god sake, get out the vote. Maybe then, and maybe only then, and we put an end to this madness. Lets bring in msnbc and nbc News National Affairs Analyst john heilemann. Hes a Host Executive Producer of showtimes the circus. Author and msnbc political analyst amid garrett artist. We also have a host of Msnbc Politicsnation and president of the National Action network, reverend al sharpton, and former u. S. Senator from missouri now and nbc news and msnbc political analyst claire mccaskill. I will start with you, what is at stake here . The first level is peoples lives. You have shown example after example of people who are breathing, thriving, making plans no longer with us. I think it goes deeper than that. At the end of the day, this is an issue, as youve covered, where the vast majority of people want to do something about, this and nothing continues to happen. It raises the question of whether this is even a functional democracy anymore. If things the overwhelming majority of people do not happen again and again and it becomes normalized, then we accept, right, that things we all want dont happen. You can go through the ritual of voting, but it raises the question of what this whole thing is. The last thing i will say is, i think theres been a lot of discussion, including on your morning show in recent years about the second American Civil War coming, are we hitting this dangerous direction where the country is pulling apart . I think sometimes we are looking out for the wrong warning signs. We are getting used to low grade, Chronic Civil violence every day as a persistent reality in america. This is the form it takes. Egged on by republicans, egged on by propaganda leaders in the media and social media. This is becoming a country where violence is just everywhere, all at once. By the way, when it comes to gun deaths, the gun lobbyists, the Gun Manufacturers, if a Push Paranoia and they have. They have for decades now and its having an impact. Anand brings up a great point. 90 of americans want universal background checks. 75 of americans want red flag laws, the majority of americans want at the banning of ar15 military style weapons. And yet, greg abbott and the state of texas elected three times. There is a concept in polling called salient. A lot of things people say that they believe in, that they dont go and vote on them. You look at abbott, youve got that graph up before of the deaths and gun deaths in texas, started in 2014, greg abbott was first elected. Got reelected in 2018 and then 2022, after uvalde, he is running against beto orourke who was a passionate advocate for stricter gun safety laws. He creamed beto orourke. If you look at the exit poll in texas in 2022, was gone safety the number one issue . No. Inflation was. Was it a number . To know, abortion wise. Number three . No, immigration was. Gun policy in texas was the fourth most important issue, the most important issue to only 12 of the voters there. That is the answer to the question. The only way that there is moral courage required on the part of some of these people to do the right thing another vast majority of people want to see. But the truth is, until people start to lose elections because they defy the will of the people, they will not greg abbott is an Object Lesson is someone who has flaunted the vast majority of texans want, but they dont care enough to voted out on that issue. Until they start doing that, hes going to keep flaunting. Reverend, we saw with abortion this past year, the tragedy of the Dobbs Decision leading to a ten year old girls being raped and having to flee their states, the tragedy of women suffering some guy. We saw that actually move the needle. Abortion is now a critical issue in the next election thats coming, as it was in the last. The question is, how much bloodshed can americans take in their churches and synagogues and Shopping Malls, Country Music festivals all around america . How much more violence do they take before they say, enough is enough . And when will we stand up and say that if i look at my child and a gun, which one do i love the most . I think you are correct and starting the program, talking about the social movements that changed this country. You must remember the people in the civil war, the Southern States protected their money, which was cotton. Cotton was in the 19th century, cotton was getting. As was slavery. As was slavery. And then segregation states that wanted to protect that, we have seen texas and others are these states that want to protect Gun Manufacturers. There are profits in killing our children. It must be a movement. Luckily, when you look at march for our lives and others, its interracial in terms of these young people saying, wait a minute, we are not going to sit by quietly and watch ourselves become target practice. Oursebut we cant go to schoolr anywhere. That Movement Must generate into the politics you are talking about and vote people out. It has to be a Movement Across racial lines. You are shooting young white kids in parkland just like you shot others. This has to stop. Only a movement will stop it. Claire mccaskill, you live in a red state, as ive lived in a red state for most of my life. Im starting to hear people talk, starting to hear republican mothers on the him a morning of the nashville shooting crying to micah and me talking about their fear of sending their children to school, the tragedy of that, my god. When my parents it was like, you get joey off my like and have him stop crying about me leaving him in first grade. Now you have parents afraid to leave their five year old children in schools. This isnt just on the Upper West Side of manhattan or miami beach. And this is in missouri, this is in northwest florida. This is across america. When does it have an impact . When do they say, enough is enough . You know, like all issues, its about what people are thinking about in a moment. I think what has happened until now is the Mass Shootings were heartbreaking, and they were particularly painful for the country and many independent voters when children were involved, but they would go away after a few days. Then they would still be worried about the price at the pump or this, that, or the other. Now it feels like its a drumbeat. It feels like the slaughter is continuous. It feels like we have reached a new level of allowing horrible, horrible, horrible sliders of innocence in this country. Ive got to tell you what i think is getting independent voters right now, i feel it in missouri, the idea that republicans are talking about protecting children by banning books. They wont ban high capacity magazines killing their kids. You know, you wrote a book about persuading middle america. I know at your heart you are very optimistic. What needs to be done . What is next . If people watching tonight that may not have hope, give them hope. Two things. First is a fear of paradox on this issue. The more those of us who want to End Gun Violence talk about it and make people afraid necessarily and being afraid drives people to the right, being frayed makes people buy guns. There is a thing about this to talk about this in a hallway. We have to have to show people what its like on the other side of this chain instead of get rid of guns, get rid of guns, what wouldnt be like to send your kids to school and know they will come home . Message, message to people what the world looks like after we have defeated this and remind people. What the world can look like and that this is a crazy thing. This is a choice. This is not like the currents, this is not like The Sun Rising and falling. This is a choice that politicians are making to protect Gun Manufacturers more than our own children. We have come together time and again in our history, from your Black And White footage onward. We have solved these kinds of problems in the past and we can do it again, and we will do it again. We will do it again. Anand, thank you so much. Greatly appreciate you coming out. Coming up, next my interview with John Fetterman and his thatll with clinical depression. A disease which is actually getting worse after he won the senate seat. You know, winning doesnt mean it still didnt hurt still. I laid there and watch this hurt my own children. Woman why did we choose safelite . 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Comcast business. Powering possibilities™. Three weeks ago today, newly elected Pennsylvania Democratic senator John Fetterman returned to capitol hill. Hed been at Walter Reed Hospital since mid february receiving treatment for clinical depression. Fetterman suffered a stroke nearly one year ago, four days before the primary election. Hes been open about his struggles with the aftermath. I sat down with the senator in washington to talk about tough road to recovery. Youve said that your toughest time was after you got elected to the senate, which most people would think, hey, that shouldve been one of the great moments of the fight. But thats when your world sort of collapsed. Fetterman fetterman thats depression. Depression you might win and you still feel like you lose. My family and i went through this grueling campaign, and now youve won and now, whats wrong with us . Is it not enough for us . Why do you feel this way . I try to explain to them, its different. Just because winning doesnt mean it still didnt hurt still. I lay there and watch this hurt my own children because they were confused because they thought just because you won, why arent you you should be happy. Can you talk about your decision to seek help, to go to walter reed . What was the triggering event for you . I will never forget the decision where its like, if i dont do something to claim my life, this could be tragic. I was skeptical. I was kind of like, no, no, i dont really belong here. Give me one last chance. As he is seeking help for depression, his wife gisele, tweeting, after what hes been through in the past, year theres probably no one wanting to talk about his own health last night john. Im proud of him for asking for help and getting the care he needs. You just talked about being skeptical. That you could get hope. Can you talk about i think thats an attitude that men may have even more than women, men dont seek treatment as much as women do. This isnt a matter of whos tough and whos not. I have the blues, or i have a little melancholy. I was a big man. You are not too macho. Its no big deal. The only person you will really hurt more than anyone else is actually your family. Did you get inspiration from people like lincoln and churchill who struggled with depression their whole lives and yet fought through it and changed the world . I would say theres almost kind of an ability to it. We are suffering and there is no ability to that. Maybe something where it toughens you up a little bit. But it didnt toughened me up. In fact, it nearly ruined me. I know i put my family through a lot of pain. When did you start to think, hey, i may be making progress here . I may be able to put one foot in front of the other, in front of the other, and move forward with my life. My first visit was my children really, after three weeks. My dad had left me these little postit notes. My kids grabbed them and wrote encouraging notes everywhere. Just dozens of these things in my room. It became kind of like, that is what sparked my idea that its like, there is a whole big reason to get better. Me putting my kids through the scare of losing me or whats wrong, you know, really was the single biggest motivation to really take it on. I had a lot of support. I was ashamed, you know, that an 80yearold boiler have the kind of enthusiasm and youve got this, that. I was the guy that should be the one cheering for them and encouraging them. But no, it was the children that were doing all that. They didnt hold it against me. They let their love come through. That single thing, the catalyst. I saw you when you first came on the hill, when you are getting sworn in. I remember thinking at the time that this is tough enough for anybody to adjust to life on the hill. I could not imagine a pain you had to be in adjusting to the challenges after your stroke. Adjusting to being this big guy, this Take Charge Leader and suddenly have all these new challenges coming at you so quickly. It had to be so isolating. Its really the truth. Oh, another thing that was very punishing at that time was that there was these Social Media Blowtorch Unleashed on my family as well. Unleash whatever you want on me, but not my family. I just cant imagine anybody that would think it would be funny too make fun of children or whatever. I remember late in the campaign seeing one of your ads have you ever gotten knocked down, get back up if anyone lives in any community that was left behind or got knocked down, thats what his campaign is about. It was one of the most powerful campaign ads ive ever seen. You were talking about people who were forgotten, people who are struggling to get by, and it shows you talking onstage, talking about your struggles, and then showed them in the audience. There was this powerful connection. I wonder, does this draw you even closer to all those people . Not only in pennsylvania, but across america, that feel like they are isolated, they are around, theyve been left behind by washington. Absolutely, joe. I will never, ever tire of wanting to pay it forward to having that gift. You cant possibly you cant fully appreciate being well then after realizing in a very dark place i was there. There is a lot of people it hurts. We are learning senator John Fetterman is now out of the hospital after being treated for clinical depression. His message, he says, is that the president is treatable in treatment works. So many people dont get Quality Health care treatment. What does the senate, what does the house, what does the president need to do to give more people a Fighting Chance with a depression, anxiety, suicidal ideations . This is not a democratic issue. This is not a republican issue. This is not hard right, hard left. This was just a human issue. If somebody is living right now in a red county that desperately needs Mental Health, and there is a person in a blue county that needs to make somebody to speak to because they are thinking of harming themselves, and we all need to be creating a national priority. I would tell anybody watching this, im begging you, please go look for your treatment. It works and its what saved me from my anguish. John heilemann and still with us. Clare, talk about the political courage this showed. Yeah, this is a man who had an opportunity so just say he had a physical ailment that made it impossible for him to serve because of the impact the stroke had had on his processing and auditory ability. And auditory abilit he couldve easily walked away and quietly gone back to pennsylvania. No one would ever know about how its debilitating this Mental Illness is. No one would truly understand that it takes courage for a man like John Fetterman to say, hey, im suffering so seriously i must be hospitalized with an illness no different than cancer, no different than Heart Disease. But our country still stigmatizes. By the way, republicans give a lot of lip service to this. Theres a few exceptions, but most of them give lip service, mostly around shootings. This is a man who has walked the walk. I think he will go down in history as doing more for Mental Health of this country than any other elected official weve ever seen. John heilemann, this is the cutting edge. You had a great insight on generational change, how it moved because of a new generation. Whether you are talking about marriage equality, whether you are talking about legalization of marijuana. And now Mental Health. How does John Fetterman play into that story . First of all, watching that interview, great interview. And just the honesty, and the emotion, the authenticity that radiates from that interview. This guy is when these are the moments. I dont want to talk about the political career terms. Issues, legislation, things people go on capitol hill every day mean nothing to most people in america. This is something that people look at John Fetterman and say, i believe my brother, my sister, my mother, my father, someone who thats why i think about Game Marriage as a great example. That transformation where we everyone said, i have a lesbian sister, i have a gay brother, a cousin, a college classmate. Suddenly, the attitudes, that generational change, the attitudes towards it changed overnight almost and we live in a different world. Misses the beginning of that conversation. Clares right. Still massively stigmatized in america. But a rising generation has a different attitude towards Mental Health. Now we have a champion, someone who is doing exactly the right way with honesty, candor, emotion, evident emotion in every moment he spoke. I think this is the manmade moment and a Turning Point in how we think about these issues. I really think it is. I will tell you why. Senator fetterman told me that republicans greeted him warmly, just like democrats greeted him warmly. He said because this cuts across all political barriers. John heilemann, thank you so much. Senator claire mccaskill, thank you for your time tonight. Greatly appreciated. Coming up, someone else who knows a thing or two about overcoming obstacles. Tyler perry now sits at the head of A Billion Dollar media empire. But it started with him sleeping in his car, homeless. My conversation with tyler, next. Next hi, im katie. I live in flagstaff, arizona. Im an older student. Im getting my doctorate in clinical psychology. I do a lot of hiking and kayaking. I needed something to help me gain clarity. 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How do you process that . That you go from that to where we are right now. Very gradually, you know. The time it took to get from there to hear it was all of 20 something years. But the process of it was so important and i talked to a lot of people who are up and coming in try to get things going. Im like, enjoy the process. Its kind of hard to say enjoy the process when you are sleeping in your car, but having an understanding of, if you have a goal and you try to reach that goal, there is a buy in. Ive always looked at it as a buy in. It has to be crazy for you. He open up the forbes top entertainers, tyler perry, the same guy that lived in that car, the only billionaire on the list. I would guess hollywood is paying attention now in a big way. You dont play by the rules. It was out of necessity. It was out of understanding that when i got to hollywood, its a much different place than it is now. Diversity, diversity, diversity. I was thinking of diversity before that thing even became a thing. I will tell you what happened. I think this is when i started to get acknowledged, honestly. The tragedy of george floyd. After that, the Academy Awards honored me with the award and the emmys. But it wasnt until people saw the horror of that, to have people understand what the fight has been and start to acknowledge it is really, really great. But i was very comfortable being hidden. Let them underestimate you. I think my first deal with the lyons gate why it is so great. They paid for half and didnt believe it worked so they sold the other have to b. E. T. , which is a full circle moment right now. To go in the room and make a deal to say i have an airship. I dont care, this isnt going to do anything. Nd i was like, wait a minute, what . I do solemnly swear that i will faithfully execute the office of the president of the United States. So help me god. So you shoot the oval here. How many episodes so far . I think we are at 420, jus a really, really good run. Ive got to show you the oval office. Okay. Shot here. Most of it, actually. The three years at a time. You visited the oval office for sure. I have, and this is perfect. Pretty close. When i set out to help someone, it is my intention to do just that. Im not trying to do anything other than meet somebody at you talked about how we need to Start Talking to each other again. Not just politically, but also people of different faiths. As i think about that and look at what is happening in the world, you couple bond problem we have in this country, im a gun owner im a gun owner as well. Like most gun owners, it is just too extreme, isnt it . Its too extreme. Regulation is not a bad thing. I think part of why the gun violence has gotten so bad over the past few years is because of what we are being fed through the internet. Along with It Justything in that vein. I am worried for my eightyearold, for these things that are not being regulated, not being talked out, not being fixed by the people than i build my studio, i built it in a neighborhood thats one of the poorest black neighborhoods in atlanta so that young black its coulseed that a black man did that and they can do it as well. Misses the pretty famous house, this is madeas house. My most famous character. Ive got to go to the liquor store to get mine. Im going to show you this filmed in the 18 hundreds, the slaves of built a lot of these buildings we are about to see. I understandi do my best to tryr it and try to make sure all these historical buildings remain just as they were. So how many acres . Its 338. I just bought 39 more acres on putting them down, building them up. I always thought, build it permanently. Refurbish it, redo it. Thats why built the white house. We talked about all the incredible things that have happened over the past 20, right now, somebody whos been who has lost their job, they dont think they can get pursuing that dream, can you give them some hope . Can you talk about a particularly low point for you where you pulled yourself out of bed and you said, im going to just put one foot in front of the other . You just gave the answer. One foot in front of the other. So many times i just remember i went by this hotel a couple of. Its one of those hotels where there are drug addicts and everybody is down on their luck and up staying. I was in one of those places. I remember wanting to die. I did want to get out of bed. Everybody would come out and start their old cars and there was a crack on the door, about this wide. I just prayed that the fumes would die. You wanted to die . You were praying to god that he would take you . Its too much, the pain was too much. What i been through as too much. Im homeless, i dont have food to eat. Im just done. In that moment, as im sitting there praying in tears, everybody is warming their cars, up all the cars drive away almost simultaneously. Its little moments like that where im like, okay, i have to go to work. Those moments gave me, like, you are okay, you are going to be okay. I would say to anybody, just look for the Little Things that encourage you. Even if you dont see anything. The little, small things that keep you going. For every little thing that somebody can do, its a little step, each step is forward. To be here on this side, what i would say to anybody, if the pain is the buy in, what are you paying for . Then, had i given up, i wouldve missed the best part of my life. I wouldve missed being able to help thousands of people see their dreams. My hope for anyone who knows, like you know it, you know it in your soul, there is something, no path, and nothing makes sense, you dont know how to get there, but you know for,y hope is one step at a time. Keep going. One step at a time, keep going. What a guy. You know what comes through with tyler is just how. The thing that people need to understand about the phenomenon hes become is not only was he black in a world that was dominated byite. He was able to come from being homeless and broken, where blacks would look down on him, and he broke through. Now all of them are trying to get into a tyler perry situation. [laughter] he gave hope to people he was more rockbottom than anybody that goes to see his shows. His story is the story of hope for everybody. Its really incredible. You are right. He snuck up on hollywood. Heres a guy who is in forbes lt of the richest entertainers. And did it all himself. He did it all himself and he remained himself. He did not try to become hollywood. I think that is something. Hes a transformational figure. We really to tell all our children about him because there is nobody that has traveled as far as heated as fast as he d its an extraordin. Hes an extraordinary man. Reverend, al, thank you so much. We will see you tomorrow morning . Brighton early. Whose brought us bridgerton, greys anatomy, now the number one shot on netflix. My interview with The One And Only Shonda Rhimes. Meet the future. A chef. A designer. And, ooh, an engineer. All learning to save and spend their money with chase. The chefs cooking up firsts with her new debit card. Nice. And the engineer . Shes taking control with her own account for college. Three futures, all with chase. Freedom for kids. Control for parents. One bank for both. psst psst ahhhh. With flonase, allergies dont have to be scary spraying flonase daily gives you longlasting, nondrowsy relief. psst psst flonase. All good. Hey bud. Wow. Whats all this . 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Learn how abbvie could help you save. i like to move it by reel 2 real plays were reinventing our network. For total confidence and complete control. Fast. Reliable. Perfectly orchestrated. The United States postal service. Move it for nearly two decades, Shonda Rhimes has absolutely dominated the tv industry. From greys anatomy to how to get away with murder, to the the latest show, Queen Charlotte, is now the number one show on netflix. Just before its premiere, i get a chance to sit down and talk with Shonda Rhimes. The full interview will be on morning joe tomorrow morning, but heres a quick look at some of what we talked about. Kind of wild. You walk in here in shonda land and you just become this icon, this global icon. How can you ever explain to the ten year old version of yourself with five siblings that this is where you aru are going to end up . In a lot of ways, inshington. You know what i mean . Wanting to do all these things. Then i realized, i dont want to do them, i just wanted to research and write about them. You go all over the place. Different genres, different settings, different generations, different centuries. Does that keep you interested in the process . Does that keep Everything Fresh for you . It does. I feel like the people who do one and done sort of things, i was never that comfortable that i was successful. I was being inducted into the Academy Hall Of Fame by oprah. Shonda rhimes and, this is your time. [applause] oh patches did my introduction, that was i dont know. I went, oh, im okay now. It took a long time. I dont take this for granted. I was very much, like weve got to make more shows. I only make things im excited about. What about greys anatomy . Can we talk about that . Yeah. What was good about having graze the my First Television show ever was i did know the rules. I didnt know what you were supposed to do or what you werent supposed to do or what stories you should tell. I just wrote what i thought was interesting. Then of course bridgerton. You produced bridgerton. , obviously, breaks all the rules. When i first read the books, i could picture myself in the show, in the books. If you can picture yourself in something, and then to me that feels like its universal enough. And then to, i was not going to make sure that didnt include me or somebody looked like me. That was just not going to happen. I wasnt even interested in that. The idea that we came upon this thing of there is real belief that Queen Charlotte was a woman of color and we sort of just ran with that ball and make a story about how she changed society and really talked about all that. The process of writing, ive seen great writers talking about, whether its movies or tv, some will just start with a rough outline. How do you do it . What is your process . I will start writing until i know what im going to write and i dont write outlines. I go with how the story is flowing. What is really good about that is you get to really follow your instincts. A lot of the stuff that comes to me comes to me when im lying in bed or after ive gone to sleep. But mostly, the things i think of at night, if you are sticking with me during the day, i know there is something. Another incredible creator. You can see much more of Shonda Rhimes tomorrow, my interview with her on morning joe. Thanks so much for being with us. Its been a Special Edition of Joe Scarborough presents. On with chris hayes will be back tomorrow night. Up next tonight, Rachel Maddow investigates the farright ties and the gunman who killed eight people, including little kids, at that Shopping Mall in allen, texas. The Rachel Maddow show starts on the other side of this break. Thank you so much. U so much. Make your dream car. A reality. Mercedesbenz certified preowned vehicles are rigorously inspected to live up to the highest of expectations. What are folks 60 and older up to these days . 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People 50 and older with at least one Heart Disease risk factor have higher risks. Dont take if allergic to rinvoq as serious reactions can occur. Tell your doctor if you are or may become pregnant. Done settling . Ask your rheumatologist for rinvoq. And take back whats yours. Learn how abbvie could help you save. Thanks for being with us tonight. If you had been the pentagon Chief Of Staff recently, Chief Of Staff to the Defense Secretary of the United States, if you