Investigation would soon be winding down. However, there are signs to the contrary. Axios is reporting that, quote, members of Robert Muellers team are reaching out to former Republican NationalCommittee Staff who were familiar with the digital campaign. The goal is to determine if the joint effort was related to the activities of russian trolls and bots aimed at affecting the american electorate. Ty cobb said all of the interviews with the special team are over. However, former colleague said i would be shocked if he was done with the inner circle. All of these indictments, guilty pleas and interviews could be round one. Joining me is Jonathan Swan with acti axios. Thanks to all of you for joining. Barry, the resident former prosecutor here, let me start with you. You have this report from the Washington Post saying that if
point is that its a question that a lot of people close to the situation are asking themselves is why did mueller allow for this prosecutorial vulnerability . Because thats what it is. He could have charged flynn on any number of things and he chose to make it this one thing lying to the fbi which really does give a very big free kick to the opposition that can say, well, he lied about this, he could lie how can you trust anything he has to say . So it actually is a bit of vulnerability for the prosecution. Julia, in terms of the timing here, i think one of the questions this raises is are we looking at just sort of a basic potential legal strategy, a Contingency Scenario that the trump team is preparing for . Or is there a more specific reason why theyre now talking about this apparently . Has something happened since that plea a few weeks ago in exchange theyre thinking about flynns role in all of this . Well, i cant i cant speak to the change in their thinking, but i think it fits overall with trumps broader
if the president and his team were ultimately to be out there calling flynn a liar, it wouldnt be the first time he was trying to distance himself from it. You can take a look at how the president defended Paul Manafort last february and then watch what he said in november after manaforts indictment. Thats mr. Manafort whos, by the way, a respected man. And he said that he has absolutely nothing to do and never has with russia. And he said that very forcefully. His statement. Paul was not there very long. What people dont mention, paul was not there for a very long period of time. What was it that convinced you that he had to be let go . Well, i think we found out something about he may be involved with all with certain nations and i dont even know exactly what it was in particular. Trump also once praised his former adviser George Papadopoulos as an excellent guy. That was in march of 2016. Take a listen. George papadopoulos, hes an oil energy consultant, excellent guy. Then after papadopoulos began cooperating with investigators President Trump said, quote, few people knew the young low level volunteer named george who has already proven to be a liar. Barry, let me ask you playing this out here because were on sort of Contingency Speculation here, but if this does go to a scenario where flynn is saying if trump committed wrongdoing, somebody immediately around trump committed wrongdoing, the vulnerability hes talking about where flynn has admitted to lying to the fbi, if the Trump Argument with flynn implicating him, this guy is an admitted liar, hes cut some kind of deal with prosecutors to save himself, to save his son, hell say anything to get off the hook, hell say anything to get off lightly. Strategically, legally how much success is a strategy like that
likely to have . That type of strategy would probably be more successful if it were in a vacuum by itself, but what we have in this particular instance as you just showed, we have the president being his own worst enemy. When the president Vouchs For General Flynn even on the day he was terminating him as a good guy, as an honorable person, hes really his own worst enemy when we try to affect the credibility of general flynn. The thing that bothers me most about this line or this strategy, if we forget for a moment republicans, democrats, what this really is is an assault on our institution of justice. Long after these folks are gone, i think i saw a gallup poll that says 30 of the people still believe president obama was born in another country. This kind of assault upon the integrity of the department of justice, the Justice System as a whole is going to be an inches
city tieuesdayal wound there ma be people sitting on the jury years removed from now who remember this time frame and remember how this president attacked the credibility of one of the great Law Enforcement entities and agencies in the world. So that really bothers me more than just this president and these individuals. I think there is a much larger issue at play here than really the personalities were talking about today. Jonathan, you are well sourced within this administration. Weve played the and we showed the some of the examples there of the folks around trump who have been talking up the idea that this probe is not long for this world. Its going to wrap up soon. There have been some predictions here that havent borne out. Whats your current understanding of whats happening in trump land of where 24 is heading, the time line, their exposure here . Whats your sense of that . Well, you have to separate ty cobb, you know, the legal team from the people inside the white house who really know nothing and theyre just listening to the legal team with varying degrees of skepticism and you have people outside many of whom are more pessimistic. I spoke to ty cobb and the way he laid it out was he said, yeah, the investigation will continue. He uses the word silos. He says there are two silos, the flynn silo and the manafort silo. They will continue. The white house, that will all be wrapped up and hes moved the time line. He initially said thanksgiving and the end of the year. The last time i spoke to ty cobb he said early next year. I can tell you once you go one ring out from that there is a lot of skepticism that this will be cleanly wrapped up with a bow by the ind end of january. Julia, the other wild card is put yourself in the shoes of Michael Flynn. His brother on twitter the other day saying, mr. President , pardon my brother. You had trump until now at least
publicly and still publicly trumps posture has been friendly and generous. Now youre reading, hey, look, theyre worried youre going to Say Something and theyre worried they go after you. What does this have to do with flynns strategy, calculation, thinking, how he approaches it . Again, i think it would be purely speculative. If im Michael Flynn and im watching this guy throw me under the bus more i might talk more. The other thing is we have to keep in mind the issue of Michael Flynn is an important one because if you recall, one of the reasons that trump or shortly before trump fired the fbi director jim comey he said he pressured him to go easy on Michael Flynn so Michael Flynn also holds the key to a very important aspect of President Trump and whether or not he obstructed justice. All right. Julia, barry, jonathan, great insight from all of you. Thank you for joining us. Coming up, roy moores last stand. The Alabama Republican Last Ditch effort to throw out the results even claiming he had taken a Polygraph Test to show the allegations of Sexual Misconduct against him are false. Plus, trump closing out the year with a twitter feud with vanity fair and Hillary Clinton. Trumps battles with the media to congress to those behind the russia probe. And were going to take a look at the year ahead with republicans and democrats on capitol hill. Can republicans get another big win under their belts after that tax plan and will democrats see a Wave Election in 2018 or are they at risk of overplaying their hand. And the Hardball Team is here to Tell Me Something i dont know. This is hardball where the action is. Had that. Urance comy wait hold it. Hold it boys. Theres supposed to be three of you. Wheres your brother . Wheres your brother . Hey, wheres charlie . Charlie . you can leave worry behind when liberty stands with you. Liberty stands with you™ Liberty Mutual insurance. Welcome back to hardball. Roy moore isnt quite the distant memory some republicans were hoping for, at least yet. Earlier today alabama officials rejected a lawsuit brought by the former republican candidate alleging that voter fraud took place in this months special election citing what he claimed were election experts, Moores Campaign claimed that, quote, with a reasonable degree of statistical and mathematical certainty Election Fraud occurred. As a result they called on the Secretary Of State to delay certification until a thorough investigation is completed. Janet porter, roy moores spokeswoman, had this warning for the Secretary Of State in alabama and that states governor ahead of the certification. Secretary of state, id like to get to the bottom of it no
matter who it is that i supported. Heres the thing that governor ivy needs to know. By the way, if they can steal the election from roy moore, governor ivy, they can steal from you. Republican alabama Secretary Of State jon merrill was undeterred at 2 10 eastern this afternoon the election Board Certified doug jones as the official winner of the election. I am looking forward to going to work for the people of alabama in the new year. I will be an independent voice and work to find Common Ground with my colleagues on both sides of the aisle and fight to make our country a better place of all. Jones is to be sworn in by Vice President mike pence next week. Despite all of that, roy moore still refuses to concede. In a statement he says i have stood for the truth about god and the constitution. I have no regrets. To god be the glory. For more im joined by kyle whitmeyer. And the former republican congressman from florida, dave jolly. Kyle on the ground in alabama, let me start with you. There wasnt much there didnt seem to be anything of these claims of Election Fraud. Election officials, republicans dismissed them out of hand. The election is over as far as theyre concerned. Im curious about the politics in alabama. He was able to win an election. Hes refusing to concede. His spokesman said theyre making a big mistake here. Are Republican Voters prepared to move on from this election or are they going to be like roy moore and say, hey, this thing was stolen . I think this has been a great demonstration of why roy moore was unfit for this office to begin with and i think that a lot of Republican Voters who might have been on the fence, maybe even some who voted for roy moore in this election are going to change their minds about him because of the way that hes played this thing out. Look, it was it was a
narrow win for doug jones but it was not like, you know, something we saw in virginia where its going to come down to a coin flip. This was onehalf percent difference and it wasnt, you know, while that might look close, its not close enough to trigger a recount. The only thing they had were all these bogus claims of voter fraud. It just looked childish. It looked petulent. He looked to be a sore loser. I dont think anybody in alabama wants to be associated with that. David jolly, put yourself in the shoes strategically speaking of Mitch Mcconnell. On the one hand he loses a senate seat in alabama. His margin with this certification its 51 49. Its razor thin. On the other hand, roy moore is not going to be in washington next year as a leading member of the National Republican party. Is that a better outcome
strategically for mcconnell . Of course. The best possible outcome is to have roy moore and the horse he rode in on a distant memory. The problem for republicans and for Mitch Mcconnell is there are more steve bannon crazy republican candidates right around the corner. Steve, you know these races. Michael grimm in new york who got out of prison who threatened to throw the reporter off the balcony. Paul kneeland from the white, kelly ward in arizona who has suggested that because john mccain is sick he should resign and she should take his seat. The steve bannon wing of the Republican Party survives the defeat of roy moore, so roy moore is done in terms of National Politics but this whole Division Within the Republican Party and the Steve Bannonism is still going to be chokehold around Mitch Mcconnells neck going into 2018. Ayesha, as a democrat, im curious how you think about that. We were calling it the tea party a few years ago. Establishment figures got knocked off in these republican primaries by candidates who couldnt win races the partys never supposed to lose. Democrats looking ahead to 2018, looking ahead to the difficult senate map. Is that a big part of the strategy strategically thinking . Absolutely. Theyve been on a pathway to selfdestruction, i believe, and thats what were seeing playing out. I think the big thing for the democrats to take away from this is they need to trust black women. Black women won this election. There was a kneejerk reaction to want to deviate away from the core base of the party which is the beautiful multiethnic race of the party and figure out how the democrats go back and get those white guys in wisconsin who didnt show up for Hillary Clinton. What we see in alabama, what we saw in virginia and what the reality is as long as the democrats stay true to their values of inclusion of bringing all the people under the tent and to the table, they will win time and time again. So i think the lesson to be learned is as we go out and fight the 201 battles, we need to make sure we do it the way the democrats know how to run the playbook. We need to bring black people, young people, latinos into the process. We will win every time and defeat all of the bigotry running rampant within the Republican Party. Kyle, something you said a minute ago struck me. It may be this moment with roy moore refusing to concede. Maybe sort of an aha moment for republicans in alabama. We dont need to go down this road again. Im curious, roy moore is 70 years old. Weve seen him in the past decades. Hes been thrown off the state Supreme Court twice. He keeps coming back. He was on the brink of a senate seat. Do you think theres a political future or is this the last chapter . I think hes done. Hes going to have his core base of devout followers, but beyond that his stealing has always been his floor and his floor has
always been his ceiling. Thats what really caught him in this election. If he had had a strong opponent, not Luther Strange, he would not have been in this race. If Mitch Mcconnell had not tried to get involved in this race and force Luther Strange on alabama Republican Voters in the primary and allowed someone like del marsh, our state Senate Majority leader to run and not blackballed Campaign Operatives who were working for other candidates, there might be another republican in the senate next week. And i think that is going to be something that a lot of people are going to remember here but as far as roy moore is concerned, look, hes already embarrassed alabama enough. A lot of Republican Voters two weeks ago voted for doug jones. This guy is through. Any time he steps back up to the
plate people are going to say, remember that its a democrat in the senate right now because of roy moore. We dont want to be associated with him ever again. David, what im hearing kyle say, im thinking back though over the last six or seven years, i feel around the country at different points weve heard versions of that, you know . Sure. If only republicans, mike casso in the senate race in 2010. If only they hadnt gone with mourdock. Not a loss. Is there a point where pragmatism it seems to me like theres this antiestablishment energy thats unabated in this party for almost a decade now. This is the problem with the Republican Party right now. Its the angry base that has captured it. Mitch mcconnell is right. Listen, if youre not a good candidate, then you dont get to make policy. To the earlier comment, all of the energy, all of the energy right now is in the left. The left cannot wait to vote in Nove