Politics. Com right now for a look at floridas fight against zika. Til tomorrow, sayonara. Dont say sayonara yet. No . Did i screw up . You got to let me say thank you for guest hosting the show for the last couple days. Great to have you. Now we say sayonara. Hardball with Chris Matthews is next. Meet the new trump, same as the old trump. Lets play hardball. Good evening. Im ari melber. After talk of potentially softening on immigration, donald trump last night as well as today doubling down on the hard line approach that helped him win the republican primaries, particularly when it comes to his trademark proposal. Heres trump at a rally today. Dont worry. We are going to build that wall. That wall will go up. Its going to go up. We are going to build the wall. Mexicos going to pay for the wall. We are going to stop drugs from coming in. Late today, the Trump Campaign also announcing the launch of what they call a new online store with new merchandise reading of course, build the wall. But after that conciliatory joint appearance yesterday, mexican president pena nieto pushing back against trump, publishing a new oped saying quote, i was also very clear in my conversation with trump on the border, mexico will not pay for any wall, end quote. He later addressed trump directly on twitter, saying i repeat what i told you personally, mr. Trump. Mexico will never pay for a wall. Heres what trump had to say when asked about the diplomatic dispute this afternoon. It will happen at the right time. It will happen. This is just the beginning of a negotiation. If i win, if i become president ,
mexico will pay for the wall. He rightfully said i know that position for a long time, they say they dont want to pay for the wall, theyre not going to pay for the wall. Every negotiation starts that way. But mexico will pay for the wall. Thats the explanation. Im joined by gene cummings from wall street journal, paris denard, former adviser to former president george bush and eugene robinson. Good evening, everybody. Plenty to get into. We are in the thick of the real campaign. The general election, obviously the international trips. Gene, let me start from you, your perspective here. Did donald trump win or lose out of these two appearances together . I dont think it went well for him at all. I think he lost ground in a very serious way. The campaign right now should be about adding supporters. He has people, high profile conservative hispanics who are leaving his campaign and making those kinds of headlines. That was the opposite of what he
was trying to accomplish yesterday. Yeah. Some of those advisors resigning officially today. That made a lot of news. We will have one on hardball. Paris, listen to the two Donald Trumps we got in one day. This was headspinning even for some diplomats to watch. This was again the Trump Campaigns choice. They didnt have to doublebook that hard line arizona speech with the trip but they did. Take a listen. We recognize and respect the right of either country to build a physical barrier or wall on any of its borders. Cooperation toward achieving this shared objective and it will be shared of safety for all citizens is paramount. We did discuss the wall. We didnt discuss payment of the wall. That will be for a later date. Are you ready . We will build a great wall along the southern border. And mexico will pay for the wall. Believe me. They dont know it yet but theyre going to pay for the wall. Paris, as a campaign professional, why have those two messages run right into each other on the same day . Its the same message. The message is the same on both occasions. When you are president of the United States, you have got to be able to go in different circumstances, one be diplomatic and have a q a or press conference with a fellow head of state and then be able to go to a rally, then be able to deliver a speech to your base, your supporters, all in the same day. You see the problem with that, is the speechs supporters is not the exact same message. To them he says im going to be tough, i will tell them how its going to be, they will pay for t it. Thats one message. Then the same day he goes down there and doesnt say anything
according to the mexican president about them paying at all which seems like for something he has been mroeting for a year, would have been time to bring it up. We are getting down into the weeds about one particular part of this illegal immigration issue, paying for the wall. The greater point is he put out a ten point plan to curb this issue about illegal immigration. In addition to that, what we did not see on the diplomatic stage, what we did not see was secretary clinton go down there and make herself to be seen as president ial. One would think a former secretary of state would jump at the chance to go down and present her message to the mexican people, Mexican Government with the mexican president. She did not. Mr. Trump showed great leadership, diplomacy and judgment in going and doing that speech and then going to the American People directly in arizona, my home state, and speaking to them about his tenpoint plan to fix this issue of illegal immigration. Gene, how about that. Does hillary not have enough frequent flyer miles here . I think Hillary Clinton has met a whole lot of world leaders
and you know, shes done a whole lot of summits. I dont think we need to worry about that. I dont think she has to convince anyone that she can perform in that setting. She obviously can. But back to your original point, no, those were two totally different messages. The tone was completely different and the content was different as well. There was this sort of hands across the rio grande aspect when he spoke with president pena nieto. He spoke not really in terms of America First but the hemisphere first. He talked about hemispheric trade and keeping manufacturing in this hemisphere. None of that in the phoenix speech. Thats for sure. It was the mexicans were bad again and they are going to have to pay for the wall, they are too dumb to know it yet. By the way, mexican immigrants are committing crimes at a
historic pace and have to be kicked out. It was a hard line speech. So thats, those are his cards. Thats the way hes decided to play this hand. One of the funny parts about that is there is sort of this macro, meta conversation about what hes doing. In the absence of policy details which donald trump has said arent the most important thing to him, theres a lot of talk about whether this is hard or soft, tough or week and all the rest. Here he was in an exchange with Laura Ingraham about whether this hard speech according to him last night will have more softening later. Take a listen. The line last week, you were softening on immigration, then come out with a very specific, very proenforcement plan last night. Wheres the softening . Oh, theres softening. Look, we do it in a very humane way and we are going to see with the people that are in the country, obviously i want to get the gang members out, the drug peddlers out, i want to get the
drug dealers out, we get a lot of people in this country that you cant have. Those people will get out. Then we are going to make a decision at a later date once everything is stabilized. I think you are going to see theres really quite a bit of softening. Jean cummings, i cover this stuff. I know a little about immigration law. I have no idea what hes saying there. I dont mean that rudely. A politician seems is deliberately vague for various reasons. Diplomacy as well can be vague. What is he talking about and do you see a softening after what was such a hard line speech . Well, i also am confused about precisely what is his policy now, because he said so many Different Things over the last few days. One thing i think is clear and thats the overall message that the Hispanic Community heard based on our interviews with many people today, and that is he may call it soft, he may call it hard, he can describe his speech and his rally any way
that he may wish to. But to them, the message is every one of you thats here illegally could now be deported. And we may not get to you first. We may not get to you until the end. But we are coming. Thats the message that the Hispanic Community got. How you characterize it, thats up to them. But i think that that was thats a message that has driven hispanic advisers away from his campaign and it could narrow his path to victory, making florida much harder than it might have been. This is a significant moment for his campaign and how they manage it going forward. Yeah. To your point, the policy balance you strike has got to happen in real time. You cant say oh, were going to do massive deportations on a scale this country has not seen in decades, thats the current proposal on the table, then later i promise there will be something humane after that. That just doesnt necessarily make internal consistent sense. Paris, i want to give you the chance to respond and also take a listen to Cory Lewandowski and his view of who this speech was really targeting. Take a listen. Look, i think Donald Trumps message tonight was the message that he started with back on june of 2015, which was America First. Thats what he believes and what he is playing to, if you look at the polling data hes had about an 18 point lead in the demographic of white males who are voting in this election. They have a high propensity of voting. He has about an 18 point lead on Hillary Clinton in that particular demographic. This speech is clearly geared at those individuals right now to make sure they are there. Hes locked them in for the election. Lewandowski saying the key is locking in white males, another demographic would be white female conservative pundits. I can show you ann coulter, very happy with this speech saying i think i will watch this speech every night before going to bed so that i will sleep like a baby. Paris, does this do enough, if
those are the only groups its speaking to . I just disagree. I believe mr. Trump was speaking to the American People. He was speaking listen, cory was the campaign manager, he did a good job getting mr. Trump to and through the primary. Manafort came on, kellyanne is now there. Since they have been on, theres been a deliberate effort to have specific engagement with the Africanamerican Community and especially the Hispanic Community. I will say it was continued engagement with both those communities. This speech is no different. His policies are no different than what he campaigned on, what he said down in mexico and what he said in arizona. The American People understand his position. The Mexican Government understands, the mexican president understood his position long before he invited him down there to go there. This was a good day for mr. Trump. Liberals and you are upset that he had a good day. Im not upset. Do i seem upset . Im not upset at all. He looked president ial. He was president ial. He showed extreme leadership. The people of this country, especially those who live across, along the mexican
border, hispanics, mexicans included, understand the problems that are lying on that border. They appreciate someone like mr. Trump speaking to it and having the leadership and the courage to go straight to mexico, speak to the people and to the government and say im going to work with you. Hes a negotiator. This is the first step. Its a positive step. Hes going to win. Paris, if you were here at the glass table with me in new york, i think you would see im feeling good. Im not upset about it. Im enjoying it. I want to give eugene a chance to get back in. The other piece of this is whether theres sort of a fantasy football style aspect to the way donald trump envisions his presidency and saturday night live famously made fun of that with the idea you would snap your fingers and everything would just happen. Yet in the political math, there is some appeal to that, right . To the extent he boils things down very simply or says a lot of problems are other peoples fault or a lot of things will be handled by other people, look, if you could prove that mexico would pay for anything it would
be great. If they wanted to pay for our school system, that would be great as a budgetary matter. Im just not sure its going to happen. Speak to the political path hes on here trying to appeal to people. Well, generally speaking, simple and understandable is good in politics unless its completely crazy. So you know, paris spoke of trumps outreach to africanamericans which consists of screaming what do you have to lose, your lives are a living hell, what do you have to lose . Thats not a good approach. Thats never going to work. And similarly, im going to kick your aunt belinda out of the country is not a great approach to latino voters. Its just not. Its simple and understandable but its not going to work. We are out of time. Paris, quickly, though . Its going to work and its working. Because the American People appreciate the fact that hes speaking directly to them in language they can understand
instead of lying and trying to hide behind things like secretary clinton is doing. Its going to work. He has 8 of the black vote right now ahead of what romney got and what senator mccain got. Give him time. This is the first step. It was a good day for mr. Trump. Thank you all for joining us on hardball tonight. Coming up, we will talk to that former trump surrogate and supporter who was on the latino advisory council, resigning after last nights speech. He says based on what he heard its clear that trump doesnt even want to win this election. Thats ahead. Also, Hillary Clinton seems pretty happy to lie low lately and let the campaign be some kind of referendum on trump. Is that a smart strategy . Will it last or does it prevent her from actually getting where she needs to go in an affirmative case . Later, we dont yet know the political consequences of trumps hard line speech but if you look at whats happening right now in the state of arizona, republicans, they may have reason to worry. Finally, the hardball roundtable will be here to tell me something about this president ial race that i dont know. Alzheimers disease the fi is out there. Survive
and the Alzheimers Association is going to make it happen by funding scientific breakthroughs, advancing Public Policy, and providing local support to those living with the disease and their caregivers. But we wont get there without you. Visit alz. Org to join the fight. We have new polling from key battleground states. We will check the hardball scoreboard. According to new Public Policy polling, Hillary Clinton with a s seven point lead over trump in wisconsin. Good news for the clinton camp. She also has a lead in New Hampshire, 46 to 40 for trump. Over in missouri, tighter, trump leading there 47 to 41 . In North Carolina, a virtual dead heat. 45 to 44 . Hillary clinton with the narrow edge within the margin of error. Well be right back. To win, ery millisecond matters. Both on the track and thousands of miles away. With the help of at t, Red Bull Racing can share critical information about every inch of the car from virtually anywhere. Brakes are getting warm. Confirmed, daniel you need to cool your brakes. Understood, brake bias back 2 clicks. Giving them the agility to have speed precision. Because no one knows like at t. Safety doesnt come in a box. Its not a banner that goes on a wall. Its not something you do now and then. Or when its convenient. Its using stateoftheart simulators to better prepare for any situation. Its giving offshore teams onshore support. And its empowering anyone to stop a job if something doesnt seem right. At bp, safety is never being satisfied. And always working to be better. I call it extreme vetting. Right . Extreme vetting. I want extreme. Its going to be so tough, we are going to triple the number of i. C. E. Deportation offices. Two million people, criminal aliens. We will begin moving them out
day one, as soon as i take office, day one. You can call it deported if you want. The press doesnt like that term. You can call it whatever the hell you want. Theyre gone. Welcome back to hardball. There, donald trump last night once again taking that hard line stance on undocumented immigrants. Today, several hispanic trump surrogates said they are now in response reconsidering their support for him. A former supporter telling nbc news im going to flip but not flop. I am no longer supporting trump. Grace flores hughes, member of trumps advisories council saying today shes withdrawing her support. Another member of the council telling politico i dont have the time or energy for a scam. Meanwhile, Alphonso Aguilar saying hes inclined to pull his support and quote, its so disappointing because we feel we took a chance, a very risky chance. We are disappointed. We feel misled. Then today, there was jacob
monty, an attorney who made headlines resigning from Trumps NationalHispanic Advisory Council directly in response to that speech. He joins me now. Good evening to you. Why did you resign from advising donald trump . Well, i had a lot of hope. I was defending him six hours before i resigned. So this speech was really built up as his definitive statement on immigration. I thought he was going to articulate a republican compassionate, realistic idea on immigration and some of the proposals i was totally on board with, more security, better vetting, build a fence, all of that. Thats great. But when we sat down with donald trump, we talked to him about the 11 million that arent criminals and he assured us there was going to be a way to give them some benefits to be able to work. Thats what they want. They are not seeking welfare. They want to work. When we met with him do you think he misled you in that meeting . I dont know. I think he was genuine in the meeting. I