good. big thanks to donny, we'll be back here tomorrow. coming up, hardball with chris matthews. whose party is it? let's play "hardball." >> good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. bernie sanders is on the attack against the democratic party. last night he went after the party's leaders while a crowd of his supporters booed that leadership. >> let me also say a word to the leadership of the democratic party. [ boos ] it can do the right thing and open its doors and welcome into the party people who are prepared to fight for real economic and social change. i say to the leadership of the democratic party, open the door, let the people in. >> the insurgency of bernie sap sanders is for real. the chair of the nevada party, roberta lange said the scene turned ugly. >> there were chairs thrown. there were people calling for my death out in the crowd. there were scuffles. there were people that where going against the decorum rules set out by the attendees. it was ugly. >> she received death threats like this one. >> hi, this is a citizen of the united states of america. i want to let you know that people like you should be hung in a public execution to show the world we want stand for this. >> hung. it should be hanged. he says i condemn and any and all forms of violence including the harassment of individuals. he added if the democratic party is to be successful in november, it's imperative that all parties treat our supporters with fairness and the respect that they have earned. that was not the case. a hillary clinton supporter and a liberal lion being booed. >> when you boo me, you're booing sanders. go ahead. >> senator barbara boxer joins us right now. i've known you a long time. i thought two great things about you. first of all, you're where you want to be politically. you've been on the progressive side of things, consistently so. pretty hard progressive at times and you win. you put those two things together which seem to be fairly important in politics. there they are. do they even know who you were over the weekend? >> oh sure. oh, sure. absolutely. this was all planned. it was -- i talked to bernie yesterday. i said the vast majority of your people were respectful. they were fine. they were sitting in their seats, but 50 to 100 of his people were down at the base of the stage. you see it there. it's very hard to describe to you what the scene was because it was beyond chaotic. it was crude. it was gestures. it was words. it was awful. they knew exactly who i was. i've been in situations that were difficult before and have always been able to calm things down. what i did was tell them i'm bernie friends and bernie asked them to be civil. hillary asked everyone to be civil. if they kept on booing, they were booing bernie. it didn't matter. this was all planned. it was disruptive. bernie says he has to be led into the party, his people has to be led into the party. bernie sanders has never been a democrat and we welcomed him into this presidential fight. i find it really bizarre, someone who has run against democrats before, someone who has never been a democrat, now saying we're not letting him in. the fact is whoever gets the most votes and most delegates is going to win. that's it. >> what were those people looking you in the face, there's a lot of menace along the people up front. what was the message they didn't like the fact he was lost a couple of delegates. what do you think the anger was about? >> i think it's intimidation of those supporting hillary clinton. i guess they don't know us. she's the toughest person i've met. look what the woman has been through. she's still standing. i'm still standing. if they want to be standing, they shouldn't be fighting with us. let's work together for the good of this country. this isn't about a political party. this is about making sure that donald trump who goes after everyone, doesn't get into the white house. that's what it's about. >> you negotiate the rules? no more closed primaries. can you get rid of these questions of super delegates. is that all room for reform or not? >> i think everything is on the table when there's a negotiation. i wouldn't take a thing off the table. again, when bernie says he starts attacking the democratic party that welcomed him into this primary, when he's never run as a democrat before, i find it very odd. when i spoke to bernie, we had a very warm conversation. i just said, bernie, you've got to get control of the situation. i feared for my safety. if i didn't have seven or eight security people up there, i don't know who would have thrown what at me. they knew exactly who i was. i was there to represent hillary clinton. everyone knew we were coming. this wasn't a surprise. >> where's this going to end up? we're showing these pictures because video lasts forever. is this going to be going on in philly when you get to the convention itself? >> i would hope not. i take bernie at his word. he said his main priority is making sure donald trump does not win. if he believes that, then he'll work with us for the good of the country. this isn't about political party. it's about all of our people being able to reach their potential. of course we work with him on anything he thinks is important to take a look at. >> senator boxer, thank you so much for getting through that and coming here. >> thank you so much. i hope you feel better now. >> i'm fine. >> what an experience. last night the chair of the democratic national committee, congresswoman debbie wasserman schultz said bernie sanders need to take personal responsibility for what his supporters did. >> as democratic leaders, we all personally responsible including senator sanders for separating frustration over the process and the way it unfolds and ensuring that you condemn and prevent your supporters from engagening in violence intimidation. there's a way to deal with frustration over process. the fact that the sanders campaign has issued a but in between condemnation of violence and frufrstration over the procs seems to excuse their supporters actions which is unacceptable. >> there she was. i'm joined by nina turner. she was just mentioned a moment ago. she spoke at that nevada convention as did barbara boxer and tad devine. senator, let me ask you this. do you think the candidate of the people there and the sanders people is responsible for their behavior? >> no, i do not. no more than the secretary would be responsible for the behaviors of her supporters. chris, it's a total -- >> who is responsible then? >> the individuals themselves. >> they don't have a leader? let me ask you this. there's particular things i'm concerned about. don't hem and haw. if a person is a political leader and they have a job to support their family with and people start acalling up that place of work and threaten them and going around destroying the reputation and trying to bring down the business itself, that to me is beyond normal political argument. do you agree? >> chris, i would agree but senator sanders condemned that behavior. i will say this, until they present the people whose voices were on that e-mail, which was totally wrong. you don't attack anybody. you don't threaten anybody. what happened to the chairwoman in terms of those voice mail messages were absolutely wrong. how do we know who supporters those were? people calling those bernie sanders supporters, we don't know if those were senator sanders supporters. i was in that room and i have the utmost respect for senator barbara boxer. they should have not booed her. they should not have. >> who is responsible for that? >> bernie sanders has been saying all along that you do not do that to people. also, i was in that room before that happened and i was in that room after. i was in there for eight hours. there were no threats to anybody. it was emotional and it was tense. the chairwoman called for a vote by voice, a voice vote and the noes had it. she went another way and she stifled debate on the floor. people were upset. those were nurses. those were teachers. those were blue collar workers. there are with students. those were not outrageous people in that room. >> i don't like this as a fear tactic. i don't accept that argument? >> who is using that as an tactic? i don't believe it was planned. i was in the room. i'm not monday morning quarterbacking. first seek to understand and be understood. there has to be some understanding and acknowledgement for the supporters of senator sanders there's tension and stress among what is happening at the dnc and what happened in nevada which is the only state that something like this happened at a convention. >> okay. i'm asking -- i don't want to argue because you have a point of view. >> we're not arguing. we're just debating. >> i'm trying to figure something out. was it the responsibility of the people running the convention out there and the way they called that vote. is that the cause of the 50 to 100 people treating senator boxer the way they did? is that the cause of it? what's the cause and effect here? >> there's a lot of cause and effect. they should not have done that to senator barbara boxer. the chairwoman of that convention has a responsibility to run the convention in a very transparent way. that did not happen. chris, quiet frankly, i believe it's all bigger than what happened in that room on saturday. >> what's that? >> that what happened on saturday is a big up of tension that's been happening all along this contest. it's funny to me that you would have the chairwoman of the dnc would even trying to get the other side of the story. immediately take on the side of the nevada convention. that's exactly what happened. >> we had angie morali on who was on the same time as we had wasserman schultz. we have you on. >> i didn't say you. i'm saying our chairwoman has a responsibility to say, you know what, i'm going to get all sides of this story. yes, you condemn the voice mail messages. there's no doubt they were cowards. no doubt about that. at the same time, as the chairwoman of the dnc, you don't take one side over the other and you condemn all of senator sanders supporters, everybody is violent. it's a convenient narrative. i guess what happened in vegas didn't stay in vegas this time. >> here's angie morali. she explained what happened in the room. let's hear her account and see if you agree. >> this is what happened. we had 4,000 of the most passionate people in this valley who got in a room together and you put them in this confined space for 15 plus hours and you -- who have little access to food and have three bars outside the convention center that was put there for us. i don't know any other situation where they wouldn't have created high emotions. >> i'm not sure what to make of that. lack of food, is frustrating. too much alcohol can be a problem. the idea that somebody did that on purpose to create -- that cause and effect i was just talking with the senator. i don't believe the cause and effect is clear at all. your thoughts. >> i don't think that's what she was trying to say. i think she was trying to say and as senator turner was saying, there was a lot of hostility in the room. i think we can try to figure out what the causes are. let's put this in perspective. we've had state conventions all across this country. we've had very good relations with them and very good outcomes. we've had some great events. unfortunate unfortunately, on saturday in nevada a lot of bad things happened barbara boxer was disrupted and booed. that's unfortunate. bernie sanders has condemned any threat of violence or act of violence. least to he's totally against that. i think we should take a step back and understand. i think this is a one off situation. it's unfortunate it happened. we shouldn't let it hang us up. i don't think it will characterize the democratic party. >> josh marshal said senator sanders is the person responsible for upping this tension. the burn it down attitude, the upping the ante, everything we saw in that statement seems to be coming from sanders himself, right from the top. what i understand from sources is any one who has tried to rein it is has decided to let bernie be bernie. >> he's not bitter. he's not angry. he's the same person at the end of the campaign as he was at the beginning. someone that understands when you take on the establishment, the economic establishment, there's going to be a lot of blow back. he gets it. i think what bernie is fighting for is exciting people. we're registering literally millions of people in california right now. >> there's a lot of things that's happening. there's no reason why somebody should have an automatic ticket at a convention where they have a vote they never earned. i don't like caucuses. why don't you make a real compromise that bernie sanders can have his name on, the sanders deal reform. you get rid of the super delegates and caucuses and state conventions. you have to vote to pick a candidate for president. every democrat should be allowed to vote in every state and every vote should count and only count once. what's wrong with that as a compromise? get rid of the super delegates. just do it. one person one vote. senator, what do you think of that idea? >> i don't necessarily disagree with that especially when it comes to the super delegates. >> what about the other end? get rid of these stupid caucuses. >> the caucus process is long. god bless anybody that stays all day. we're not at that moment. senator bernie sanders is still in this race. he's still running. why are people trying to discount that fact? >> i'm in the trying to discount him. one way or another he's going to be at that convention. he can fix this and make this democratic democratic party. thank you nina turner and tad devine. reckless. those are a few of the words mike murphy has used to describe his party's presumptive nominee. trump is trying to make over his image meeting with henry kissinger. plus, dana warns that bernie sanders could be the 2016 version of ralph nader. i'm going to ask the man himself about that comparison. remember this exchange i had with donald trump. >> you believe in punishment for abortion, yes or no? >> the answer is that it has to be some form of punishment. >> for the woman? >> it has to be some form. >> trump says he didn't mean what everyone heard him say. we'll dig into that. let me finish with a test of leadership for the democrats. this is "hardball" the place for politics. real is touching a ray. amazing is moving like one. real is making new friends. amazing is getting this close. real is an animal rescue. amazing is over twenty-seven thousand of them. there is only one place where real and amazing live. seaworld. real. amazing trump leads clinton by four points. trump, 45-clinton, 41. we'll be right back. even a ufh2o. [man] that's not good. [pilot] that's not good. [man] that's really not good. [burke] it happened august fourteenth,2008, and we covered it.talk to farmers. we know a thing or two because we've seen a thing or two. ♪ we are farmers. bum-pa-dum, bum-bum-bum-bum ♪ ♪ one♪coat, yes! one coat guaranteed marquee interior. behr's most advanced paint. get the best paint for any budget and save 10 or 40 bucks. only at the home depot. i am totally blind. i lost my sight in afghanistan. if you're totally blind, you may also be struggling with non-24. calling 844-844-2424. or visit my24info.com. supreme court in order to fill the vacancy left by the death of antonin scalia. the name contists of six aappellate court judges. what is the impropriety that you feel is gross here by trump this putting out these names? >> trump put out these names for a clear reason which is there's lot of conservatives who aren't sure, for good reason, that he's one of them. one of the things they care about is the supreme court. i don't think that the supreme court should be assort of bargaining chip many this way. it's one of the most serious things that a president does. what does donald trump know about any of these 11 people? >> are they hard right justices? >> there's a range. has he studied them? >> the american bar association list. >> there's a heritage foundation list he got it from. i think he's putting these judges in a bad decision. everything they decide they will get attention. >> one of them has spent quite a bit of town on twitter trolling donald trump. the guy from texas. >> they pay him a lot of attention. >> we're not going to have a supreme court justice until next march or april. >> unless garland is confirmed in a lame duck section after hillary clinton is elected. >> donald trump says he wants to rehabilitate his image and explain his recent behavior. they write trump will do this by publicly addressing head on some of the most controversial episodes of the campaign. the strategy is fueled by desire to persuade voters he's nothing like the monster he believes his political adversaries and the media have portrayed eed him to. this is great stuff. he started with megyn kelly. >> you would be amazed at the ones i don't retweet. >> did i say that? >> many times. >> excuse me. over your life you've been called a lot worse. you've had a life that's not easy. >> it's not about me. it's about the messaging to young girls. >> it's a certain amount -- it's a modern day form of fighting back. it really is. >> you going to stop that as president? >> i'm going to stop it about you now. i think i like our relationship right now. i'm certainly not going to do it with you. >> he's vetting journalists. i like you right now. trump's daughter was on cbs this morning refuting some of the negative stories about trump, her father's behavior forward women. let's watch that. >> another woman said donald trump groped her at a meeting, at a business meeting. >> yeah, look, i'm not in every interaction my father has but he's not a groper. it's not who he is. i've known my father my whole life. he has total respect for women. >> he's called women crazy. he's called them crooked. that's what he calls hillary clinton. he used the words bimbo. do you say tone it down? >> i thought certain things should be toned down but not in relationship to that. when i think about myself as a feminist, it's important that women are treated equally. he treats women and men equally. >> i wonder about pure politics here. a little bit of good and evil. a businesswoman, daughter, smart move, right? >> to a certain degree. he's not a groper. it's like his wife going out and saying he's not hitler. those are things you shouldn't have to go out and say. >> what is this remedial effort? >> it's crazy. if you're explaining, you're not campaigning. >> it's my father. >> he's not a groper. if your father was a groper, you wouldn't show it. >> she couldn't avoid it. >> the way he talks. i'm going to address this head on and explain it but then it's by doing the same thing. he's always done. i'm a good guy. >> he's just doing the same thing he's been doing. >> last question to both of you. with all the problems he has, 30% of the country, minority, he's already x'ed them off. he's still running roughly even. who are these people? women are mad, minorities are mad. hispanics mad. is he like sweeping the white male vote like 75%. how do you do well as he's doing in the polls? >> he's sweeping a lot of white male, especially the less educated. he'll keep explaining that too. there's a lot of unhappiness out there, chris. i don't need to tell you that. people want a vehicle for their anxiety. >> i love the way you smile when you say unhappiness. >> anxiety and anger. >> john, why does he still do among white males. >> they look around themselves and see a world that is completely different than what they want it to be. they have this notion of a past that never existed but they were on top. >> were they? >> they never were. they've been told at one point you were on top and now you're not an it's because of these people. >> it's fascinating. i think a lot of people are denying it for trump. a will the of republicans will not vote for trump that say we're republican. >> there's some evidence of that. >> i think it will be fascinating. thank you. up next, is bernie sanders willing to see the democrats lose this 2016? 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is it still there? >> it's still in place. elections today, leaves democracy off limits. it's like there's a quarantine. nobody asks their opinion. nobody asks for their involvement. they helped to change this country. >> let me ask you about this choice. bernie sanders still has a lot of passion behind him. he's losing in numbers and maybe almost impossible at this point to win. how should progressives end up this campaign? how should it work to win the election against trump? >> first of all, i think it's going be fairly easy to win the election against trump. he's not only uncontrollable, he's self-uncontrollable. it's like a dust up or an eruption around his ego every day. if you run for president, it's not all about you. it's about the people. i don't think that's going to be that difficult a victory. however -- >> you don't want to vote for hillary? >> no. >> how do you beat trump if she's the only alternative? >> she or bernie could beat trump. bernie is ahead in the polls against trump. >> what about come to july when you have to chose? >> my vote is one of conscious. i never disclose it. i never vote for somebody i don't believe in. >> i think she's more hawkish than obama. >> she scares the generals. >> do you think she's more hawkish than trump? >> he says he wants to smash anybody who threatens us. it's extremely unstable situation which is why the business community is going nuts. they don't flow what to do. >> what is the problem with corporations? >> because they measure their progress by the monotized yardstick of profit, et cetera. first they want to control everything. everything is for sale. they plan our elections, our military procurement. they plan our tax system. they even commercialize childhood to sell kids things that aren't good for them. they don't know boundaries. every major religion in the world warned the adherence not to support the merchant class. they don't know boundaries that protect other values. they want to control government. it's the only counter rate. it's the giant global corporations who have no allegiance other than to control them. >> when it people come to constitution hall, they will see success. they'll say how small these groups are. they improved our country over the years. what if we were more engaged. come one, come all. >> thank you, sir. >> thank you. >> up next, the hardball round table plus donald trump's latest attempt to gloss over the missteps of the primaries including what he told me about punishing women for having abortions. you're watching hardball, the place for politics. ro-gravity d. but it's actually a triumph of predictive analytics. because of optum. through population health data, they provide insights so doctors and hospitals can identify high-risk patients. like me... asthma... potential hospital visit. so now thanks to optum, this asthma thing's under control. gravity not so much. this is healthier, powered by optum. from health plans to providers to employers. we connect all parts of health care. healthier is here. my mmade a simple trip toonic the grocery storesis anything but simple. so i had an important conversation with my dermatologist about humira. he explained that humira works inside my body to target and help block a specific source of inflammation that contributes to my symptoms. in clinical trials, most adults taking humira were clear or almost clear, and many saw 75% and even 90% clearance in just 4 months. humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened; as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. before treatment, get tested for tb. tell your doctor if you've been to areas where certain fungal infections are common, and if you've had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have flu-like symptoms or sores. don't start humira if you have an infection. ask about humira, the #1 prescribed biologic by dermatologists. clearer skin is possible. welcome back. time for the hardball round stable. joining us is white house correspondent for the wall street journal. as you all just saw, i asked about dana millback's piece that sanders may be the ralph nader. you wrote this. this was his argument in 2000 that there isn't that much difference between the two political parties. sanders said at start of his came campaign that he couldn't do what nader did. where does it stand now? >> i spoke with him before he started this kpanl, he said there's a difference between two parties. he wasn't going to do this. i suspect in his heart he doesn't want to do that. i think he can't get out of his own way right now for the moment. he says repeatedly, the top priority is not having donald trump become the next president. what he's doing is contrary to that. it's too late for that kind of thing. all he needed to do is say i'm not with her and you have a president. >> he must be thinking what fairness means. in the end it's not about procedure. it's about whether he got the votes he deserves. no more caucuses. no more conventions. no more super delegates. what does he want? is it rule changes or particular things about health care, student loans, whatever. >> i think it's all of those things. >> if he loses, can he dictate the platform if he loses? >> he'll have a will the of sway at the convention because he will have a lot of delegates there. i think he wants to get rid of the super delegate process that was a problem for him this time and for clinton a last time. >> is he willing to deal? >> the caucuses have been helpful to him. that's the irony of this thing. i think he thinks the super delegates are undemocratic. i think he wants to push out the convention. the thing he said about medicare for all and free college tuition. he wants it all. he did you want want to have to give up anything. >> it doesn't mean anything. in fairness i get what i want. that's not fair. then you might as well win. >> a bit to the left and far to the left agreeing they have chance of beating the other people politically, what's that deal look like? >> well, sanders definitely has a laundry list of things he wants to have in the platform. he's kind of coming to terms with this in realtime. he's been riding this wave of momentum. he's trying to decide what that might look like. he wants his movement to live on in some form along the convention. i'm not sure he knows what that looks like. they're willing to give him stuff. >> is this all rational now? he seems angry. >> they're running out of options. >> i think he is angry. this was talked about earlier in the show. absolutely. how can you watch that speech last night and say he's not angry about the way he perceives he's been treated which is unfairly? >> it could also be he's disappointed and that comes with life. he said he was going to lead a political revolution and the turn out has not grown. >> he's angry about one thing and he's not going to be the democratic nominee. he has unright to be unhappy it didn't happen. he didn't get the largest number of votes. he didn't get the largest number of votes in nevada either. >> why is he angry about nevada? >> even if he had his way, he was going to get two extra delegates. he's not getting the nomination no matter what happens. >> donald trump is further distancing himself from some controversial comments he made in march to me about punishing women about having abortion procedures if he was made illegal. here is that conversation for town hall. do you believe in punishment for abortion? >> there has to be some form of punishment. >> for the woman? >> yes. >> now he meant that women punish themselves. in a piece in the new york times magazine he tells robert draper, i didn't mean punishment for women like prison. i mean women punish themselves. i walked it back. i feel like carly fee riorinfior woman in america knew what he meant. >> he's already walked it back seven times. he walked it back one way, a different way. this is the latest revision. this is the revision as he pivots toward the general election. he was trying to establish himself as a pro-life candidate when he was still running against the republican. >> pro-life like this. >> now that he's pivoting to the general, we're hearing another walk back from donald trump. >> the round table will stick with us. up next these three will tell me something i don't know. or stop to find a bathroom? 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secretary of state. >> maybe. >> what you may not know is we still have a congress and it's functioning now but you might wish it weren't functioning because this week the house and senate is voting to send $500 million to putin so he can give us some russian rocket engines to send our satellites into space. >> a growing number of democrats say they're nervous they're the ones who are going to have the disorderly convention in philadelphia and part of the reason is if you pull the permits of people who are applying to protest and demonstrate at the convention in philadelphia there are a large number of bernie sanders supporters who have applied for permits who are already organizing buses and rallies and promising a revolution at the convention and sanders aides say they're not sure they can control what their supporters do in philadelphia. >> we've been hearing that. when we return let me finish with a test of leadership for the democrats. you're watching hardball, the place for politics. but i had to. because, you see i was traveling, i was enjoying life, i was working... it was too long since my last pap. when i was finally tested, we thought i might have cervical cancer. after worrying - no cancer. i was lucky. women... please get a pap test to check for cervical cancer. and get the inside knowledge about gynecologic cancers. for you and the people who care about you. they keep telling me "drink more water." 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