rat pack. let's play "hardball." good evening, i'm chris matthews, in washington. a republican campaign that reached the bottom yesterday, is now being fought in the sewers. first it was a smear campaign pitting one candidate against the other's spouse. today, a bat of rats. it began with the online ad by anti-trump super pack. it urged the target of audience to vote for ted cruz. trump reacted with an ominous warning to cruz that he was ready to spill the beans as he put it on cruz's wife heidi. then he double downed with an unflattering photo matched against a glossy photo of melania trump. advocate of planning marital infidelity, denied on the record by several women. well, ted cruz denied the allegation on social media, and again with reporters today. >> it is a story that quoted one source on the record. roger stow. donald trump's chief political vis advise er. it is a tab lloyd smear. it is not surprising that the tweet occurs before the attack comes out. i would note that mr. stone is a man who has 50 years of dirty tricks behind him. he is a man for whom a term was coined for coplating with a rodent. donald trump may be a rat, but i have no desire to coplate with him. and this garbage does not belong in politics. >> well, the campaign statement today, donald trump said he had nothing do with the story. i'm joined by msnbc robert costa, michelle bernard, and former virginia congressman tom davis. thank you. robert, give us -- this is pretty dirty stuff. what -- are there any facts here about how the story got into the national national enquirer? i don't believe them, because i don't think it's a source for fact. but where are we this? any where but smear back and forth? >> no facts, no evidence. the "washington post" has been trying to report out the story, just to understand what's going on, and there is no evidence of anything close to the national enquirer. this a campaign that has really devolved. >> he says he didn't plant it. i have no idea whether or not the cover story about ted cruz in this week's issue of the national enquirer is true or not, but i had absolutely nothing do with it. did not know about it. i have not, as yet, read it. ted cruz's problem with the national enquirer is his and his alone. while they were right about o.j. simpson, john edwards and many others, i certainly hope they're not right about lyin' ted cruz. that's the most ridiculous statement. he is hoping it is right, robert. why would he even say he hopes they're not right, the lyin' ted cruz as he put it? >> days away from the wisconsin primary, they're really at odds at each, it's almost his toric. the nastiness between cruz and trump. animus. when you look at trump's social media activity, it has not brought evidence to the fore about cruz as all, but certainly not shutting down the national enquirer story. that's a statement of the rivalry between both of these men. >> now, roger is a well-known figure in political circles, he is -- he does inside jobs. let's put it this way. >> he is a nixon. he rose up with nixon. >> he is a nixon guy. you don't want to put it on television. he knows what he is doing. is there any reason to believe that he is the source of the story? if he was, why he put his name in it and why would they put him some sort of commentator, rather than the source? would that be legitimate for them to do that? >> here is what i can report about roger stone. he is still in regular contact with donald trump. but he is not part of the trump campaign in any formal way. he actually left the trump campaign last year. but he is still a long time confidant, and he is someone trump you could call him a trump associate in a casual way. he was the lone person quoted in "the national enquirer" story. this is someone sw long ties to donald trump, not part of the donald trump campaign. >> let's talk about ted cruz's response. obviously, when your wife is attacked, on her looks, basically the way the thing was set up, although she is an attractive woman, they whacked her on that. in this whole thing about cruz and his infidelities, according to the national enquirer, nobody believes it, until real evidence in the world about any problem like that. does this seem to be, national enquirer to you or a trump story? where did it come from? trump sourced or enterprised by "the national enquirer"? >> in politics, when you're political reporter, things are floated to you all the time. 99 out of 100 times, nothing without evidence ever floats to the top of the national political conversation, so it's odd to see something that has no evidence that is a national enquirer story that purports to know about five women. to even talk about it, there is no facts or evidence. >> how is this going to affect the wisconsin primary coming up on the 5th of april. >> they're very socially conservative, mi conservative milwaukee, republican like scott walker. they care about issues, they care about social issues. i think this nastiness is going to influence that contest. >> stay with us, robert. let me bring in michelle and tom, in that order. what do you make of this? i don't even like quoting "the national enquirer," once cruz reacts to it and makes a big bold statement, all the language that we have to be careful about using ourselves, what do you say? he is in the fight? he wanted to respond to it. >> he is in the fight. it is part of the national discourse on both sides. you know, and i'm still so taken aback by the level of the discourse and the fact that we are even having this discussion, having it at a national level. donald trump, whether he placed the story or not, or somehow involved, you know, it almost -- i'm wondering to the extent the trump campaign believes he is now running for the general, and this is going to help him. donald trump has made a career during this campaign season of appealing to people who feel marginalized, and what we've seen, if you take a look at the reporting elsewhere, the advent of these men's rights groups who feel marginalized, they support donald trump, they love this, they love the picture of his wife. >> let's go back to what we think might be marginally true. roger stone would love to be interviewed by "the national enquire enquirer". suppose that's what was done here, an associate of trump's, jumping in and basically helping to push the story by giving the quote. is that grounds for cruz to jump back and blame trump. >> when you lie down with dogs, you get flees. every time trump drags somebody into the mud with him, they got tarnished. rubio's undoing is when he got down in the mud and tried to take him head on. cruz should have stayed on top. trump has already marginalized a lot of votters. >> could he have gotten away with it. ignored a national enquirer. >> you have to respond to this now. but this goes back a couple of days in terms of trying to meet trump at his own level. you're not going to beat him at that. wisconsin, russ feingold won a three way primary where he was trailing two weeks out with two front-runners throwing mud and he came up a clean guy. this is an opportunity for kasich, look how low this thing is. >> can i -- remember, wisconsin is, regardless of how conservative it is, there are also conservatives in wisconsin who believe that the women, a woman's proper place is in the home. that you get a good-looking wife, and she stays at home and says nothing. wisconsin is the state where -- >> you mean stepford wife. >> look, public state on the record during a discussion about the re-authorization of the violence against women act in wisconsin, who said, and i'm paraphrasing here, but very closely said, one could argue that money is more important to a man than a woman. so this entire twitter war that's going on between donald trump and ted cruz is appealing to men who believe exactly what that state legislate tore said and no coincidence this is happening right before wisconsin. >> this is about waukesha county, higher income, better educated. this doesn't help anybody to get in the mud. >> these kind of personal taxes have the potential to damage trump among women. "wall street journal" polls find 70% nationwide, amazing number, a negative view of donald trump. 70%. among republican voting in the rhymery, 47% said they cannot imagine voting for trump. devastating among women, come november, between a hypothetical matchup. 58 to 31. robert, thinking about this, the clinton people, over in brooklyn up there in new york, are they sitting there thinking, my god, they're putting film together for us, reference and news stories, we could just referring to trump and his attitude towards women? >> it's not just the democrats in brooklyn, it's democrats in washington, they look at the senate man, and even the house, chris, even the house of representatives, which most people didn't think months ago would be up and competitive. now democrats believe privately and some publicly, if he turns off women as he does in this new poll, new places could be in play that they never thought. >> to me, tom, it comes down to women being treated as they're a auditioning to be runway models, an donald trump will pick the latest, and you know, anybody else he will diminish them as a human being. this is the way it comes across. carly fiorina was very good on that point, every woman in america knows what you meant when you knocked my look. >> that's certainly true for educated women in particular. >> they don't want to be judged that way. >> we've got a gender gap. women will elect the president of the united states. i can see the commercials. >> where are you going to go? i can ask you this question? >> where am i going to go? >> vote for trump or the alternative? >> i'm going to vote for the alternative. when the video comes out with men, i'm going to quote one person, but the man who supports donald trump who says that heidi cruz looks like a dog who needs to be put down, that's reported by "the daily beast," or the man, these are from men's rights groups called the red pill, but listen, and for the man who supports donald trump that says melania trump looks like a good first lady to me, bill clinton would not be having an affair with the secretary of the white house if the first lady looked like that, every woman who sees those commercials and people speak like that will be running to vote for hillary clinton. >> who? >> whatever super pac or concerned citizen that's going to put these things together. >> you're with the idea. >> i would take a quick sprint to hillary clinton. >> thank you so much, robert, thank you, tom davidson, michelle bernard for declaring. as john said, john kasich is looking to break through this ugly fight and possibly win wisconsin. governor kasich will be my guest monday night on "hardball." coming up, the wisconsin primary, could bernie sanders actually topple hillary clinton and win the democratic nomination. a long shot, but it could happen. plus, eliminating isis just days after, u.s. air strikes have killed the islamic second in command over in syria. it comes as republicans have ramped up their criticism isn't doing enough. the "hardball" round table, reporting on the nasty fight between trump and cruz. finally, let me finish with trump and cruz itself. this is "hardball," the place for politics. windows 10 really helps us get the word out about how awesome bugs are. kids learn to be brave and curious and all kids speak the language of bug. 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[ dance music plays ] [laughs] no way! i have no financial experience at all. that really is you? if they're not a cfp pro, you just don't know. find a certified financial planner professional who's thoroughly vetted at letsmakeaplan.org. cfp -- work with the highest standard. hey how's it going, hotcakes? hotcakes. this place has hotcakes. so why aren't they selling like hotcakes? with comcast business internet and wifi pro, they could be. just add a customized message to your wifi pro splash page and you'll reach your customers where their eyes are already - on their devices. order up. it's more than just wifi, it can help grow your business. you don't see that every day. introducing wifi pro, wifi that helps grow your business. comcast business. built for business. the pentagon announced a major isis leader has been killed. here is ashton carter this morning. >> we're systematically eliminating isil's cabinet. indeed, the u.s. military killed key isil terrorists this week, including we believe hoji iman, serving as a finance minister, and external affairs. the removal of this isil leader will hamper the ability to conduct operations justin side and outside of iraq and syria. >> haji imam is the second in command and operations head. nbc's richard engle broke the news this morning. >> american special operations forces conducted a commando raid stopping the car of the isis second in command who is generally known as haji imam, they first tried to arrest him, the situation escalated, and he and three others in that vehicle in syria were killed. this is a serious intelligence victory. the u.s. has a lot of information how to find the top isis leaders, and after yesterday's action, the will to go into syria on a very dangerous mission and kill them. >> for more on today's news, i'm joined by terrorism analyst, a former state department spoke woman. let's go to tara first of all. what good does it do, how hard is to kill one of these guys. >> first of all, they wanted to capture him. they wanted to try to capture him. we don't flow if something went wrong or security was at stake. they probably wanted to capture him for intelligence. the effect, it's necessary to do it. it's not sufficient. the organization will replace him. there are cells and other parts in the world that will operate with or without the second in charge, but it's a blow to the group. you need to take back their territory, their leaders. there will be a time lag on isis' capacity, let alone their recruitment capabilities. >> how do you take an airplane, helicopters went in and did it? did anybody see them coming? don't they have the capability to shoot them down? how did this happen? >> this is part of the value of having intelligence on the ground and having a full coalition. mot just a u.s. led effort. they have more than 60 countries involved with local representatives, and the arab communities regionally also working to stabilize the region and combat isis. this is a coalition effort. that's key to being able to execute these types of raids and types of high profile. >> what do you think it looked like, this operation. >> look, a number of these operations where special forces have been involved, trying to track down senior isis members and the truth is, it's not that easy auto to capture them alive. they're usually surrounded by bodyguards and heavily harmed. information is in their possession will be used by the u.s. to track down further individuals. so look, there is no doubt, this was planned, i'm sure they were already prepared for the likelihood that this guy was not going to be captured alive. >> was he in a car? motorcade or a building? do we know? >> we don't know right now. there is reports that he was in a vehicle and traveling, but a lot about this we don't know. it's important to emphasize here this is not the end-all be all of isis. back in 2010, we killed the number one, number two and number three guy, all at the same time. and you know, two years later, they took over mosel. the impact is not negligentable, but this is not going to stop terror attacks from happening in belgium. >> president obama was on a diplomatic trip came under criticism for not cutting the trip shorter after the brussels attacks the other day. let's watch. >> while our friends and allies are attacked by radical islamic terrorists, president obama is spending his time going to baseball games with the castros. and standing at a press conference with raul castro as a prop. >> it's outrageous that the president of the united states is not in a situation room planning to destroy isis. >> we are watching an islamic state that is unfolding their campaign plan in front of our eyes, and we see the president doing waves down at a baseball stadium in havana. >> at a time when we have a crisis, is that the impression he wants to convey. he is a great dancer, maybe he didn't want to change his plans, but i'm not so sure he should be doing that. >> do you think there a connection here? i remember years ago, when they killed osama bin ladin, he didn't have to be there to get it done. >> look, i think for political optics, maybe they want to be more careful. but realistically, times of crisis still engages in the trips they have planned. online, there were articles showing what reagan did, kennedy did, they have done recreational activities. to be honest, they're having the intelligence briefings, they're getting their updates, in touch with the military. >> presidential daily briefing. so they're getting and doing all the things he would be doing until the white house. >> could it be the president is d debnear, engaged, snack to the enemy. >> certainly he is being presidential, and operate on multiple cylinders, opening doors in cuba, after 50 years, and building the relationship is essential to the american economy. and similarly, in argentina. you cannot simply drop everything for one moment. now, this is part with the presidential candidates on the other side would like to think will is only one thing you do at one time, but i like seeing a president who is able to operate on multiple cylinders. >> charles, who i read religiously, but i disagree with, he should have stayed on the trip but skipped the ball game. >> number one, this was a terrorist attack that did not occur in the united states. if it had, specifically targeting american nationals, maybe it would be different. but i think the real question is what are the alternatives being offered here? the republicans seem to be feeling like the president should be taking more firm action, but they don't want to authorize him to use force or put ground forces inside sir yeah. the suggestion that's been proffered by two leading presidential candidates has been to patrol muslim neighborhoods or prevent all muslims from coming to the united states. and that makes a lot of sense, given that at a time we're trying to secure the trust and cooperation and good will of muslims, we want to alienate and antagonize them. it makes perfect sense. i don't believe they think this is a solution. they're feeding it as propaganda. if they do believe this, they have no business being elected president of the united states. there are no muslim neighborhoods in the united states. this is not belgium. muslim neighborhood, the worn enemy of isis, what possible good is patrolling those neighborhoods going to do? this is hogwash, nonsense. these are not answers, these are distractions. these people should be ashamed of themselves for wasting people's time with this. >> pretty well said there. as always, thank you. up next, path to victory, bernie sanders has wracked up several wins, can he overcome the clinton machine? i'm going to talk to tad devine how bernie can pull it off yet. this is "hardball," the place for politics. d from capital one. i earn unlimited 2% cash back on everything i buy for my studio. ♪ and that unlimited 2% cash back from spark means thousands of dollars each year going back into my business... that's huge for my bottom line. what's in your wallet? burning, pins-and-needles of beforediabetic nerve pain, these feet played shortstop in high school, learned the horn from m dad and played gigs from new york to miami. but i couldn't bear my diabetic nerve pain any longer. so i talked to my doctor and he prescribed lyrica. nerve damage from diabetes causes diabetic nerve pain. lyrica is fda approved to treat this pain, from moderate to even severe diabetic nerve pain. lyrica may cause serious allergic reactions or suicidal thoughts or actions. tell your doctor right away if you have these, new or worsening depression, or unusual changes in mood or behavior. or swelling, trouble breathing, rash, hives, blisters, muscle pain with fever, tired feeling or blurry vision. common side effects are dizziness, sleepiness, weight gain and swelling of hands, legs, and feet. don't drink alcohol while taking lyrica. don't drive or use machinery until you know how lyrica affects you. those who have had a drug or alcohol problem may be more likely to misuse lyrica. now i have less diabetic nerve pain. and these feet would like to keep the beat going. ask your doctor about lyrica. or building the best houses in town. or becoming the next highly-unlikely dotcom superstar. and us, we'll be right there with you, helping with the questions you need answered toet your brand new business started. we're legalzoom and we've already partnered with over a million new business owners to do just that. check us out today to see how you can become one of them. legalzoom. legal help is here. when age-related macular have degeneration, amd we came up with a plan to help reduce my risk of progression. and everywhere i look... i'm reminded to stick to my plan. including preservision areds 2. my doctor said preservision areds 2 has the exact nutrient formula that the national eye institute recommends to help reduce the risk of progression of moderate to advanced amd... after 15 years of clinical studies. preservision areds 2. because my eyes are everything. i'm milissa rehberger, here is what is happening. wildfire from oklahoma into kansas hope willen be under control. thousands of worshippers solemnly mark good friday. pope rome's col see sume. in about an hour, free concert in an hour. days after president obama historic visit. back to "hardball." welcome back to "hardball." hillary clinton is well ahead of bernie sanders in the delegate count, but earlier this month, nate cohn of the new york times mapped out how sanders could still win the nomination. he said mr. shanders should fair better over the second half, after black voters gave clinton the vote in the first half. he would need to win the remaining delegates about 58-42 mers margin. sanders knows he has to crush on april 5th. he promises to fight all the way to philadelphia, and irked at the suggestion he should drop out for party unity. here he is. >> obviously the major states that are going to be coming up in the next weeks and months will be california, largest state in our country and new york state. we're working hard in those states. we think we have a good chance to win. why in god's name would we not give the people of new york state and california the right to determine and voice their opinion as to who the democratic nominee would be that's absurd. of course we would. >> a boost from elizabeth warren, who told the associated press yesterday, he is out there. he fights from the heart. this is who bernie is. he has put the right issues on the table, both on the democratic party and the country in general. so i'm still cheering bernie on. that's elizabeth warren. she has not quite endorsed him, but that sounded pretty good. joining me now is tad devine, and eugene robinson. i'm going to let you two fish this out together. tad, if you haven't watched the last couple of days, i see bernie sanders started living off the land. you win a couple, you live off of it for a couple of days. he won two out of three, this weekend, he may win three out of three, incidents, democrats could carry in november. they matter a lot more. he can win in wisconsin, and that will carry him into the big states. give it your way. how do you see it happening, if lightening strikes, how does he get to the pot of gold? >> by winning states and delegates. the first half was good for hillary clinton. she had a lot of strength. we thought we had a way to win it early and that meant we had to win iowa, new hampshire and nevada. we came close. we couldn't have come closer. we came up short in nevada. we decided if we're going to stay in this thing, we have to demonstrate we can beat her on a statewide basis, we won four of them, three the next weekend. we tried to win delegates, goal of 300, that's about how many we won on march 15th. now we've got to beat her in states in decisive battle grounds, not just wisconsin, i think we can have real momentum coming into new york and all the way to california, and if we win enough states, we can catch up in delegates, and then the democrats will have to make a tough choice, do you want to vote for bernie sanders, who will be ahead in general election polls, or hillary clinton who didn't do well in the last half of the process. >> gene? >> the difficult thing there in that plan, which is a real plan. i mean, it could happen. but it's kind of like pulling an inside straight, right. i've got to win wisconsin, do well in the big states. got to k catch up in delegates. in order to start the waiverering or the stampede of the super delegates, because she has a big lead there. >> are is the toughest hill, new york on the 19th of april? when is it harder? >> toughest hill for bernie sanders is the one that's in front of you. so toughest hill is wisconsin right now. he has to climb wisconsin and get over that one, and then he can worry about california. >> let's talk about wisconsin. what do you make, eugene, tell me, tell me about wisconsin. it has a history hard to figure sometimes. feingold looks like the favor but they dumped him last time. it tends to go democratic. >> exactly. it tepids to go democratic. is wisconsin a lot like michigan? you know, it's close to michigan. i mean, you know, in some ways, it shares a lot of characteristics, that could be good for bernie sanders, but you don't know. you don't know. he has got a shot he has got a shot there. >> tad, what looks good in wisconsin? without that scene, you've got to win that one. how do you do it? >> what's good in wisconsin, it's an open primary. whenever we've had open primaries, beginning in new hampshire, independents can come in, bernie does well. he has been consistently beating hillary with independents. that's one of the reasons he is doing so well in the general election. wisconsin is also a place that where reform is a very big issue, in the heart of bernie's campaign is to reform the system of campaign finance in america. the issues he is talking about, a rigged economy, corrupt finance, open primary in wisconsin, all of those things are good for bernie. >> i think that's always been his number. citizens united was the great galvanizer. >> people have responded to bernie sanders' call for a political revolution. think about a year ago, would you have predicted that bernie sanders would be where he is today? >> no. tad may have. >> well, tad may have, i don't know if tad would have or not. >> let's talk about -- >> we would be talking about this as a mega, huge political story, if it weren't to a certain extent, you know, drowned by the others. >> i want to know, did the happy spots of the democratic progressive side, people come out in the worst years. jimmy car carter, running for reelection, we had the best crowds, portland, oregon and seattle. i know that. that's good. these crowds are huge. by the way, tad, will you explain this new poll out of bloomberg, has your guy ahead by a point? although it's an outlier, does it tell you something going on right now? i'm wondering. it has bernie ahead nationally right now. >> yeah, i don't know if we're head nationally, but that poll along with the cbs new york times, cnn, org poll, they're saying the same thing. hillary's lead is diminishing, the excitement is evaporating. people are looking for an alternative. voters are going to say don't take this voice away from me. want to make it myself. that's a powerful argument and we'll make it to the end. >> i think your candidate made a great point when he said we ought to let california and new york vote. why do we have to let them vote last. >> exactly, no. i think it would, bernie sanders would be doing a disservice to his many supporters in those states if he didn't continue campaigning. he has the money, you know. here is the question, though. if at some point, perhaps before new york and california, but if he doesn't pull the inside straight, if he is not, he doesn't win wisconsin, if it doesn't like he'll sweep the northeast, competitive with delegates, how does he campaign the rest of the way? does he continue hitting hillary clinton, or does he campaign in more of a way to foster the party. >> i have to say, though, joe might have said, a lot more baseball this afternoon. this game ain't over yet. thank you very much. thank you to go grag yojoe garg. next up on "hardball," ted cruz versus donald trump. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics and i just can't do that on my mac. don't let dust and allergies get and life's beautiful moments. with flonase allergy relief, they wont. when we breathe in allergens, our bodies react by over producing six key inflammatory substances that cause our symptoms. most allergy pills only control one substance. flonase controls six. and six is greater than one. flonase outperforms the #1 non-drowsy allergy pill. so you can seize those moments, wherever you find them. flonase. six is greater than one changes everything. every auto insurance policy has a number. but not every insurance company understands the life behind it. ♪ those who have served our nation have earned the very best service in return. ♪ usaa. we know what it means to serve. get an auto insurance quote and see why 92% of our memrs plan to stay folife. thiand being able to use've worked oa pen like thisk. on the screen directly with the image, it takes me back to my time as a painter. and i just can't do that on my mac. so yes or no? will you vote for him? >> i will say this. i don't make a habit out of supporting people who attack my wife and attack my family. >> that's gotten that bad. welcome back to "hardball." ted cruz suggested, you heard him there, he may not support donald trump if he does become the republican nominee. it comes after cruz threw down the gauntlet, but then wavered on the same question. >> you mess with my wife, you mess with my kids, that will do it every time. donald, you're sniveling coward, and leave heidi the hell alone. >> so will you support him? >> i am answering the question. donald trump will not be the nominee. >> he is leading right now. look in the camera and said he is a coward. will you support him as the nominee. >> donald trump will not be the nominee. donald trump is a gift wrapped in a pink little bow for the democratic party. it hands the general election to hillary clinton. >> well, he didn't answer the question, did he? hallie jackson, from nbc. he didn't say if he endorse donald trump. joining holly mccain from the "wall street journal." politico national politics report, and jane newton small, time magazine. great reporting question, she pushed him, he won't give an honest -- i mean a real answer. >> he changes his mind today and basically says you know what, i'm not going to support somebody who attacks my family, a guy who just spent two days tacking my family, smeared him in the national enquirer and everything else. he is not going to support him. >> trump has broke en all civility, his glamour wife with somebody of a picture of a terrible picture. when this guy comes out with the crocodile tears and i thought it was such a performance art, it's hard to believe that he is normal, cruz is normal. much people would react in a gut way, shakespeare responses. >> fascinating progression for ted cruz. because we started early in the race with him, heaping praise on donald trump, and about the bro-mance. >> he was riding along with in a sidecar. >> we saw what he said yesterday, a big step, today to say i don't make a habit of people who attack my wife. he still didn't say one simple word, with say no. you have to wonder what it would take to simply say the word no. >> how do you even take it apart as an editor putting a newspaper out tomorrow? how do you do it? did somebody feed something from the trump world to the national enquirer, and then roger stone had a chance to jump in as a commentator. did they enterprise that story? any truth to it? no evidence there is right now. on that story, everything is built today. speaking, it's hard for us to talk about it without mentioning "the national enquirer," which we shouldn't be doing. >> it's murky. it looks like there my be trump fingerprints. >> because? >> because of the roger stone being sourced and quoted in the story, and also because of the fact that trump has a relationship with the publisher of the national enquirer. so that's what cruz is pointing to when he is making the allegation and saying this probably came from trump. >> what is the relationship? how tight? >> this is another media person in new york that donald trump knows. he has been in that town for 30 years. it's not a casual relationship. i mean, they know each other fairly well. again, you're right. this doesn't necessarily, i mean, it is strange. the questions are for cruz, they're for trump. both of them seem to be back pedaling on this, and trump can shrug his shoulders and say they were right about john edwards, and cruz doesn't look any better. you just talked about it. the performance, pointing in the camera, it looked like he practiced in his bathroom mirror 30 times that morning. >> i'm glad you said that. >> i don't make a habit of supporting people who trash my wife. come on. rubio said he'll fight trump to the death. will you support him. yeah, probably. >> he looked completely surprised that a reporter like hallie jackson would ask him that. like a double take. nobody said you're going to be asked, and then the minute you go out there, are you going to stick with your endorsement promise. >> it's just so bad for the female vote, the woman's vote in all of this. donald trump doubles down, mel ly -- melania, look how beautiful my wife is. he is objectifying her. ted cruz, he is coming out championing for his wife, but also a guy who has used his wife as a prop in this campaign, never talks about her goldman sachs record and says her baking skills, you know. >> what about, you can't say anything about my two kids. nobody said anything about his kids. he said my wife and my family. is this some family value thing he is courting here. nobody went after his kids. >> but that's the whole point. this is appealing to religious voters. i'm picture perfect family, i'm defending the american way. >> let me try something to you. i don't think everybody is a political junkie in this country. i figure, i don't know anything about hockey and a few other things. i pay attention to movie and politics and a few other things. the rest is covered. there are people that figure we're covering the politics and they'll find out what they need, and they'll be patriotic and vote. i think a lot of women who are not covering this thing every night will hear about this. this is the kind of thing i think will seep out into the real world. look-ism, trashing people's appearance. it was -- >> this is something that will reach the nonpolitical folks. it's interesting, because donald trump is very tactical about this in his non-denial, denial, saying i wasn't involved. >> i'm not saying john edwards in that story, we maybe have to believe "the national enquirer," because they were right there. that was sneaky. >> when he says, well, i don't know if this is true, but it's a cover story in the national enquirer, and he keeps repeating the name of the publication, in case you're confused where you might be able to see it. he is pointing people in the direction. i hate to say anything will damage donald trump because he seems to be teflon, but this is resurfacing a lot of things he said about women over the years, and so people are re-visiting some of those things, and he has already -- polls showing 70% have a negative view of donald trump. it's not going to go up. >> round table sticking with us, and maybe they'll tell me something i don't know. we'll be right back. what's the savings there? 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[engines revving] you can't have a hero, if you don't have a villain. the world needs villains [tires screeching] and villains need cars. ♪ we're back again with the "hardball" round table. colleen, tell me something i don't know. love that name, by the way. >> thank you. there's a skirmish brewing behind the scenes between the two democratic campaigns over debates. again. they had agreed to do two more debates. one's supposed to be in april. one's supposed to be in may -- >> in principle, yeah. >> in principle. right. but there's no details -- >> who doesn't want to debate? >> the sanders campaign says they're pushing for an april date in new york. they say that clinton wants it to be in pennsylvania. they say that they don't know why clinton would be afraid to debate in new york when she was elected to the u.s. senate there, her campaign headquarters are there. the clinton campaign is not saying anything about the debates but at this point there are no debates on the calendar. >> it tells you what? who's more confident in pennsylvania? hillary more confident in. pen than new yorpennsylvania th? >> right. >> all these republicans lining up behind ted cruz. that's the storyline. the guy who really drove the tea party and the base away from the establishment. the establishment's giving him the keys to the castle. don't believe the hype. none of these people like ted cruz any more than they did a week ago. none of these people think he can win against hillary clinton any more than donald trump. what they look at him and see is the last train to the coast. the coast being cleveland. they just want to get to this convention and then they may fold, they may throw cruz under the bus -- >> do they have a favorite in hiding? >> i think anybody. scott walker has talked about this. there's romney. there's ryan. there's all these people out there. but it's just kind of let's just open it up at the convention. so don't believe that everybody wants ted cruz to be the -- >> i like that thinking. in the end they're going to need a candidate. >> mine is actually not on politics tonight. it's about europe. and i've heard from european ambassadors that they say that this crisis, the security crisis in europe is the biggest existential crisis to the european union. they're very worried that the british will exit. they're very worried that as the borders go up in each individual country in the union that the fiscal union will soon dissolve, let alone the political one. they say this is the worst existential crisis the europe not union has ever faced. >> i wish they had best practices and do the best they can. find out who's doing the best job with security and match that. anyway, thank you for our whole round table. colleen mccain. nelson, eli and jane newton small. let's return with this fandango we've been talking about between trump and cruz. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics. professional. i'm actually a dj. 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