memory of those four little girls and all the others who have sacrificed so much on the long march toward freedom. thanks for watching. i'm al sharpton. "hardball" starts right now. conflict. let's play "hardball." ♪ ♪ good evening, i'm chris matthews in washington. let me start tonight with what's on all of our minds right now, this wild, angry push for war. another one in the land of islam. here we go again, going in with all the field marshalls urging us on. all the tongues wagging, demanding that the united states get itself back in the latest outrage from mesopotamia. i'm sorry, for isis and isil, or whatever we're calling the
beheaders. so we go in with our planes bombing, not exactly shock and awe, not a single arab country is saying they're with us. and the united states not even daring to ask them to do the dirty work on the ground. and yes, the bombs will work, people will die. there will be pictures in the world press of mothers holding babies and the wounded in hospital beds and there will be an outcry against us. and the young of the islamic world will begin to choose sides with their people who are they really don't like, but will cheer as they stand up to the great united states. and it's all happening again, getting draw into the quick sand of arabia, i see us being blamed and hated. i recall the feeling of anger i felt when i saw the two brave americans face their executioners in the desert. i want to hit the enemy so hard they'll wish they never dared humiliate us this way. so i understand president obama's resistance to the bugels
of war. from the people who are yelling charge from the safety of their cubicles, or the american enterprise institute, or whatever lilly pad of people with the time to urge for war that others must fight. this must i know. "the number one cause the world war ii was world war i" and just assuredly the war we're about to fight will lead not to pieeace, but to another war. it happened when we banished the sunnis from leadership in iraq. kicking their generals and other officers to the curb, only to have them rise up and join isis. nothing is easier than to join within enthusiasm into the latest war. and nothing is harder than to think of how to avoid starting the next one. but that's what presidents are for. and what i believe i know, this one is trying to do, amid all the cries for blood and a far scarier entanglement in the
endless wars of the mid east. senator, i know you must feel this conflict between the visceral want to get even with what they did to our guys and are probably going to do to more of our guys and the quick sand we walk right back into when he get into another war. your thoughts? >> chris, i agree. everything you've said i agree with. the bottom line is, i come from west virginia, and you hit us, and embarrass us, and attack our people, we're going to come after you. we all feel that right now in my state of west virginia and all over this country, the barbaric actions they've taken against americans and other western ers. but we've spent eight years training a 280,000-person army in iraq and we see what we got for that investment. with that being said, what makes this different? how do we choose who the friendlies are?
how do we know they won't be turned against us? since they're in there trying to fight against assad and there's hundreds of different factions fighting the assad regime if you will, and isis would say, why don't you join with us, and we'll fight assad for you and with you? there's no guarantee whatsoever. it makes no sense to me, that if we haven't learned anything, we've learned that until those people are willing, the people who live in that region, that should be a ground war for them. they should take back their homeland. they should clean up the mess they have over there. the atrocities that are being committed. we, as the united states of america, have said and should simply say this, we will use our air power, tactical power, technicians, everything possible that we can to rid of that horrible evil, but it's going to have to be a ground assault by the people that live there, not by american troops coming back in. >> well, here's the problem.
we have new poll numbers. if you want to know how confounding this problem is with isis. look at this new poll from nbc and the wall street journal. 62% of americans say they support the president's plan to take action against isis. that's nearly 2/3 who want to attack by air, by us doing it. 68% of americans also said they have little confidence the plan will work. that's more than 2/3 who don't think attacking isis will do any good. talk about a confounding situation. >> in west virginia, we understand the definition of insanity. doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. that's what we seem to be doing here. think of all the blood and treasure that we've spent, if money or military mite were to change that part of the world, we'd have done it by now. it hasn't happened. to think now, we're supposed to be sucked back in, we have close to 1600 troops over there. i understand that we need to support and protect our embassy
there, the airport that we need strategially. but basically moving out now and trying to fight this war for them and make no mistake about it, if we get an american killed, if we dwet an atrocity such as what we've seen on tv, happen to an american soldier, we'll send 170,000 if we had to to protect them. we will get pulled into this thing one way or another, and it's ridiculous for us to put ourselves in that type of harm's way. i agree with the air strikes. i support the president. i thought he gave a good speech. i respectfully disagree spending $500 million trying to arm and find out who the friendlies that we can trust or count on. >> here's someone who disagrees with you, senator lindsay graham took issue about the red line about new combat troops or boots on the ground the way it's said now. let's watch him. >> we're fighting a terrorist army, not an organization. it's going to take an army to beat an army. and this idea we'll never have
any boots on the ground to defeat them in syria is fantasy. to destroy isil, what i was told, or what i heard in your interview, won't even come close to destroy isil. it's delusional in the way they approach this. >> well, there's the senator. though you often disagree with him, he's saying there, we can't avoid bringing a combat force into syria, not just to iraq. >> well, i would just say to that, lindsay is a dear friend of mine and i respect him. and he works at this very hard and he is serving in the military, still does serve in the reserves, but with all that being said, i thank for him his services. i just disagree. if we believes we can train people and have a different result with boots on the ground, why didn't we have it before? al qaeda is still out there. have we forgotten about al qaeda, all the terrorist groups that want to do us harm? they're still there. and if isis, there will be something else, and it continues over there.
and the bottom line is, until the moderate people, in that part of the world, that want to clean up their neighborhoods, their borders, until they're willing to fight and die for their own country, for the freedoms and the quality of life they want, we cannot go over there and do it for them. we've tried. we're not going to let them come here. we'll hit them wherever they may be, hit them with our air strikes and ops as we have, but going back in, here's the thing. we'll have no choice at all. they're going to give us a cr with this vote in a cr. that's wrong. those should be separated. they should not be put together. >> do you think we should have -- should your body, the united states senate vote on whether we continue the air strikes? >> absolutely, we should be voting on the air strikes. i think he'll get total support for that. and vote on the ground. if you want to vote on ground support knowing -- vote on the training, vote on the $500
million of trying to pick who the friendlies are, vote on that one too. don't put them altogether and say, if you vote against the cr, you're voting to shut the government down. i'm not voting for that. i'll stay and do my job, but we'll separate the two and it's worthy of that, it's that important for the united states of america. >> thank you, senator. joined now by a republican from wisconsin. senator johnson, i don't know if you've been watching this, but where do you stand on the air strikes? where do you stand on boots on the ground, on special ops? and i'm talking about syria, obviously here as well as iraq, sir. >> well, i was listening to you earlier, chris. let me tell you, i'm in no rush for war. there's no blood lust in my heart. i'm just trying to recognize the reality of the situation and understand that i take my responsibilities as a united states senator very seriously, first and foremost to protect americans. and if you look at the reality of the situation, i was asking deputy assistant secretary to
describe the threat to isis poses to america. he said, listen, isis is funneling 30 to 50 suicide bombers into iraq per month. they're recruiting off the internet, very effectively. that same week that he testified there was an australian and a german suicide bomber, set themselves off in baghdad. we've seen the first american suicide bomber in syria. travel back to florida before he blew himself up. returned to syria and blew himself up in syria in may. so what he was talking about, isis can funnel those suicide bombers back into the west, back into america. so that's a threat. i agree with the president that we face a threat. now we have to take a look at what is the stated objective? what's the goal? is president obama putting together a strategy to achieve that goal and i have some real serious concerns across the board. i need more information, but there's no blood lust or rush to war from my standpoint. i take the responsibility very
seriously. >> if attacking isis led to the first beheadings, and i assume if you say they're going to send people over here, if you have intelligence to that effect, we'll hit them harder over there. there will be reactions back and forth. how do we end it? i mean, certainly they can hit us here with suicide bombings. no one can stop a suicide bomb. if they do that, that would be to ignite our further military attack on them in syria. why else would they hit us here, except to get us to hit them back? >> one of my concerns is if we don't destroy them -- >> how do we do that? >> it's like having a hornet's nest in your background. that's a danger to my kids, i got to get rid of it. but instead, we'll poke it with a stick for three years, that concerns me. >> what do we do to kill the nest? >> you have to be realistic. president obama has already got us into that war. but it's not his fault, though. these are evil, despicable.
you can't imagine what they're doing to people. we sanitize the situation, talk about the fact that they enslave women. the fighters that took over mosul dam found two women bound, naked. they had been repeatedly raped, as a spoil of war. so these are barbarians. i don't see how you contain them, how you negotiate them. and they represent a threat to americans and america, you've got to deal with that situation. so i don't disagree with what president obama's trying to do here. in terms of getting a coalition of the willing -- go ahead. >> should the united states senate vote on the air attack, the part you support? >> absolutely. we should have a robust discussion, debate. we need a lot more information. we need to be realistic, forth right to the american public. that's right now my concern about president obama and his speech. we've got to have a debate on this thing. president obama and congress has to be honest with the american public. if the objective is to destroy
isis, i don't think we have a strategy in place that will accomplish that goal. i'm concerned about poking that hornet's nest with a stick for three years. >> the public agrees. 2/3 of the public support the president with training the army, but they don't think it's going to work. why support something you don't believe is going to work? that's what i mean. >> thank you. coming up, the nfl has a big problem, and it's not going away at all. especially among women who are speaking out. what's the league going to do against players that commit violence against women? what exactly does the nfl stand for? plus, look who's back in iowa for what's being called the unofficial kickoff of the 2016 presidential race? >> hello, iowa! [ cheers and applause ]
i'm back! [ cheers and applause ] just ask yourself, if she's not running for president, what is she doing there? hillary clinton in iowa, she looks like she's running. and allison janney joins us, one of the stars on the west wing show, joining us to talk about what she's doing to help america's veterans with their drug problems. finally, let me finish with political reality for democrats. i think we just saw a piece of it. this is "hardball," a place for politics. at ge capital, we bring expertise from across ge. so i call in our access ge engineers, and together with columbia, we work backwards. from the cabinet factory, to the place they peel the logs. we find the source and help replace the machine. problem solved. if you just need a loan, just call a bank. but at ge capital, we're builders. what we know, can help you grow. we are a collection of smalls.
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braley with a one-point lead over ernst. 49-48, how tight can it get? in new hampshire, shaheen and brown, back to 48 apiece. tied up among likely voters. 4% not decided. and finally to north carolina, another close one. hagan is up by four, over tillis. and that's about the bet i make, just about four points, it's that close, but she'd probably win if it was held today. but it won't be held today. perfect timing. we're offering our best-ever pricing on mobile plans for business. run the numbers on that. well, unlimited talk and text, and ten gigs of data for the five of you would be... one-seventy-five a month. good calculating kyle. good job kyle. you just made partner.
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child abuse as well as domestic violence. in some cases, the players involved are headed right back into the line-up that sunday. the anger and frustration from columnists, analysts and especially women's groups has fallen squarely on commissioner roger goodell. one group is flying banners over stadium which read "goodell must go." yesterday on espn, passionate terms about the league's handling of these kinds of incidents. >> i spent this weekend answering seamlessly impossible questions about the league's biggest stars. mom, why did he do that? why isn't he in jail? why didn't he get fired? and yesterday, why don't they even have control of their own players? our fans and our families, are we as parents supposed to compartmentalize everything that's happening? are we supposed to simply separate a violent game on the field from violent acts off the field, and if we do, what message does that send?
in the nfl, apparently seeing is believing. if the nfl and the ravens had to see that video to be moved to action, then shouldn't those who support the league demand the same, to see action, to see change before believing? as we wait on the answer to this central question, what exactly does the nfl stand for? >> a writer with "sports illustrated," also a sports attorney. and co-founder of the women's rights group. what do you make -- that was an emotional comment there by hannah storm. >> it was, and i think it's pretty reflective of the way a lot of people in this country feel about the nfl's handling of this case around ray rice since the beginning. it's a central reason why we're asking for roger goodell to resign. what we knew a couple weeks ago was that ray rice had committed some sort of violent action against his partner. what we came to understand just a few days ago, was that roger
goodell not only got a verbal confirmation, right, an admission from ray rice, but also probably had in his possession this video. i mean, it's outrageous that the nfl -- >> you don't know that for a fact, though, do you? about the video we've all gotten to see in the last week or so. he had the other video where he's dragging his fiancee out of the elevator. >> we don't know for sure that he watched the video. what we do know for sure was that the nfl was in possession of it. >> somebody had it. let me go to michael. this whole question, to me, it's institutional politics. roman kacatholic church when th boys were being molested by their priests, protect the priests. at penn state, protect the university, protect the coach. the instinct is to protect the institution first time around. >> yeah, chris, there's
certainly evidence of that, where we look at, like you mentioned earlier in the summer, why was ray rice only suspended two games? even if the elevator video doesn't exist, the hallway video itself was horrible, and that fact that the commissioner had broad latitude, even at that moment, forget the other video and whether the league had it, we can exclude that and still criticize the commissioner for only suspending him for two games. i think there is something to be said about protecting the shield. where the owners are focused on their financial interest. but that strategy doesn't always work, especially in a context like this, where there's real criticism coming down at the league. >> this goes on at universities, i don't want to name them, because i mentioned them already, schools that have had had problem, where they protect accused rapists, because they need them in their program the next year. >> it happens all the time. when i was at school at the university of colorado, it was happening. it's one of the central things
that we know to be true. and if there's anything good that can come out of the situation, it's this. it's that we understand that sexual assault, domestic violence is not an nfl problem specifically, although it's certainly a problem inside the nfl, it's an american problem. 1 in 4 women will experience violence or sexual assault in her lifetime. >> really? >> it's a shocking fact. so again, if more people are aware of it -- >> you mean actual physical violence? >> actual physical violence. if people are taking action to prevent the next generation of men becoming a ray rice, that's a really important outcome. >> roger goodell's support from owners appears to be iron clad. "goodell has so much goodwill in the bank in the owners' eye, that there's no way without definitive proof that the commissioner lied that they throw him out. the goodwill includes a
collective bargaining agreement with the players association through 2020 and lucrative tv contract that pay each team about $150 million per year. so he's the golden goose, right? >> i think peter king is right, it's very unlikely we'll see roger goodell replaced. i think the more likely outcome, is that there would be a restructuring of the commissioner's office. he's not a lawyer, it should be worth noting. some of his powers may go to someone else. today the league hired on four advisers on issues of domestic violence. i think we'll see the commissioner's office be restructured, following an internal investigation by former fbi director robert mueller. i don't think we'll see roger goodell fired, and i don't think he's going to quit. but i do think he may lose some authority, and that could have significance. >> look at the way this thing's going. anybody that thinks this issue is over, just think about this. adrian peterson, the guy
involved with the child beating thing, this guy's playing again. it's not stopping the play. and ray rice is already suing the league, to play in the next game. he wants immediate reinstatement. they want to go back to business as usual in hours. the notion that this has chilled the nfl and they're being good boys, it not true. and here's ray rice with the stuff, the stones to come back and sue basically to be reinstated immediately, right now. he must think that the coast is clear. what kind of an appeal is that in your thinking, michael? why would he have the nerve to do this in the middle of this fire storm? >> -- he's appealing on the argument that the nfl is in violation of the collective bargaining agreement, and specifically he's going to argue that the league has punished him twice. that he was suspended over the summer. he's going to say you had the other video. now whether they had it or not, we don't know. but let's assume they did --
>> so he's going to argue that too? >> we'll assume the nfl gave up the right to punish him twice for something they already had. i understand people are going to say it's unfair, what he did to his wife, then fiancee, is reprehensible. but his legal argument is that the legal essentially went around the collective bargaining agreement. that's going to be the focus of the argument. >> if it weren't his wife, it would be aggravated assault. if it's his wife, is it not aggravated assault? put him in jail and stop talking about it. but it's definitely assault and battery. keep up the cause. up next, i like that old-style thing of flying over stadiums. up next, the twist in the saga of mark sanford. he's called off his engagement. she said it's all about his career. this is "hardball," a place for politics.
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welcome back to "hardball," time for the side show. congressman mark sanford said on friday that he's hiring a lawyer to represent him in an ongoing custody battle with his former wife. he said he's called off his engagement meanwhile to his fiancee, whom he flew to argentina to see in 2009, leaving word that he was hiking on the appalachian trail. he said no relationship can stand forever this tension of being forced to pick between the one you love and your own son or daughter. so for this reason, we've called off the engagement. maybe there will be another chapter when waters calm, but at this point, the environment is not conducive to building anything, given that no one would want to be caught in the middle of what's happening. his fiancee said, i think that high was not useful to him anymore. this is about his career and his
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miami milissa rabeeringer. u.s. forces conducted more strikes on isis in iraq. including southwest of baghdad where militants were attacking iraqi security forces. it was the first strike near the capital since the campaign began in august. french fighter jets carried out flights from iraq, taking off from abu dhabi. and john kerry was in paris, meeting with representatives from 30 countries to talk about a strategy for taking on isis. back to "hardball."
hello, iowa! [ cheers and applause ] i'm back! [ cheers and applause ] welcome back to "hardball." this week, hillary clinton left no doubt, if any existed, that she's running for president. although she didn't come out and actually say it. >> now, when tom harkin called and asked me to come, i have to admit, i wasn't sure what to say. i've got a few things on my mind these days. first and most importantly, bill and i are on constant grandchild watch. and then, of course, there's that other thing. well, it is true, i am thinking
about it. [ cheers and applause ] but for today, that is not why i'm here. [ laughter ] >> i'm here for the steak. clinton's moves have already had an effect on the democratic field, keeping what would be high profile candidates like joe biden mostly sidelined and the certainty of hillary running reinforces the democratic field itself. joining me now, clarence page, who has a new book, "culture worrier." and jonathan martin as well. jonathan, let's move on from the question mark to the implications. it looks to me like when you have a battle ship in the water, it displaces all the water, you know how big the ship is. she's so big that really nobody else is running against her.
if this were not her running, there will be people putting their toe in the water, trying to get in this thing. i don't see anybody else seriously trying to become the democratic nominee for president in 2016, do you? >> i think martin o'malley, the governor of maryland -- >> seriously trying to beat hillary clinton? no. and believes he can do it? >> i think his intentions as to a democratic primary with hillary clinton in it remain to be seen. that's a fair point and i will grant you that. besides that, i think you have to look at bernie sanders from vermont. you may think he's a protest candidate, but still a member of the u.s. senate, a long-time member of congress at that. so i think you have to include him too. but there's no question this is unchartered territory and she's a very formidable, nonpresidential, non-vice presidential candidate, the equal of which is really hard to find in history. even general eisenhower who came back from being the conquering
hero of world war ii still have a tough primary against robert taft in '52. so it's hard to figure out what other non-president or vp was this formidable. >> clarence, is anybody else really running? john kerry, i know, would like to be president. joe biden. amy clob sure, who would be great candidates. elizabeth warren would like to be president. these are all serious presidential candidates and none of them are running. >> that's right. and i think, well, a number of reasons. for one thing, it takes a lot of money to run for president. a billion-dollar campaign. hillary clinton has the momentum, she's also got a lot of people champing at the bit for the last eight years for her to run. that's what i call the ralph nader effect, you've got to be careful inside the party to challenge a strong front-runner
because if that front-runner then stumbles, you get blamed for it. you run that risk. >> he ran third-party. >> well, yeah, but people still blamed him for -- >> he lets me know that now and then. let me ask you with what it means to the republicans, jonathan because you're out there. the near certitude that hillary clinton will run going into the fall of '16, what will that do to the republicans? do they believe she can grab the center and they got to be careful about running somebody on the hard right because she'll beat out that male candidate -- probably male -- in the center and win comfortably if they run somebody on the hard right like rand paul? >> i think you have to make a distinction between the party strategists and the party rank and file when it comes to that question. a lot of party strategists look at it and are concerned about the middle of the country, running against hillary clinton.
party rank and file are inclined toward idealogical feelings. they have options here. you can do more of a generational play, and run a ticket of younger candidates, folks in their early 40s, there are options out there. the other play, more of a regional play, to try to run a populace mid western candidate against secretary clinton, a candidate of wall street, of the east, those to me are the two options out there. neither of which perhaps would be successful for the gop, but that seems to be the two paths they could pick. >> i can't wait for the coke brothers to bank roll that campaign. can you see that, jonathan? here are the coke brothers joining in a campaign against the evils of big business. >> but the flip side of that, if the republicans do nominate somebody from the more
idealogical wing of their party, you know what's going to happen on wall street. a lot of that wall street money will go to hillary clinton because she's a known commodity, she was a senator from new york. i can see her raising a lot of cash on wall street if the republicans go more towards the hard right. >> i agree with you. quick question. does she have the guts, this is guts -- to just go to the center and say hell with the populace cause, let elizabeth warren go there. i'm going to talk growth, not populism. >> i think where she's heading on foreign policy already, testing the waters of coming across more hawkish than the base of the party. and she's gone a little bit more -- >> i think she's going to run a general election campaign in the spring. i don't think she'll go left and then center. that would be the first person in history to do that. jonathan, i know you got to protect your brand, there's going to be a lot of candidates out there, but i think she's not going to face a really strong
opponent in the primaries. anyway, thank you so much, jonathan martin. clarence, we'll talk about that book next time. >> great. >> what's it called? >> culture worry yor. >> i like that nuance. up next, allison janney joins us to talk about how she's helping american veterans deal with drug problems, legal problems because of drugs. serious problems. this is "hardball," a place for politics. you probably know xerox
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in kentucky, grimz is trying to distance herself from president obama. in like other democrats in the same situation, she's firing a gun, really. and here's part of her new ad. i'm not barack obama. i disagree with him on guns, coal, and wbr id "wbr26650" the epa. and mitch, that's not how you hold a gun. i'm alison grimes and i approved this message. the polls in that race shows mcconnell up by five points. we'll be right back. if you don't think when you think aarp, you don't know "aarp." aarp's staying sharp keeps your brain healthy with online exercises by the top minds in brain science. /b
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what is it justice prevents memo doing in the briefing pile? >> i put it there. >> right. justic. justice is misspelled to the cover page, really? >> i really am an excellent speller of. it's the typing i have a problem with. >> why did you slip in memo in here? >> i was hoping you'd take it to the president? >> which one? >> the one who has the most power. okay, i'll put in a call to olivia pope. [ cheers and applause ] >> that was a washington audience last night. you just saw alison janny and melissa fitzgerald both in their roles from west wing. along with fellow cast member janel maloney to benefit justice for vets, a great cause. they've kept over 10,000 real veterans out of prison through veteran treatment courts which address the cause of addiction and helps restore their lives to normal. joining me right now is allison janney and melissa fitzgerald,
and senior director of justice for vets and the star of our show, nick stefan vick, who served in afghanistan and iraq. you are first the supporting cast. allis allison, tell us why about you got involved in this effort. we calls talk about the boots on the ground. those are people in the boots. this guy, two tours in afghanistan, one in iraq. they come back different than how they went. >> yes, i'm here to support all of your veterans who have sacrificed so much for us. sometimes they have trouble coming back home and reintegrating. i believe what melissa is doing with justice for vets is an incredibly important thing to do and i'm here to support her and everything her organization is doing for our veterans who are coming home. >> how did you find out -- we all knew about my generation, the drug problem guys got into,
mostly guys in vietnam. they were given drugs to help them through wounds, you know, painkiller, they got addicted to that stuff, other stuff, that's it like this time in afghanistan and iraq? >> we have a lot of men and women coming home changed by the experience of war, obviously. and many are struggling on the home front and some are dealing with post-traumatic stress, traumatic brain injury and using drugs and alcohol to cope. and interacting with criminal justice. unless we intervene at that moment of crisis, they'll be lost to the system forever. >> when they get arrested for dee dealing or buying, how do you help them? >> if there's a veterans treatment court where they live and they qualify, they will be assessed by a team, a judge, probation officer, a mental health care provider, if they have a mental health disorder and/or a substance abuse disorder stemming from their
service, they may qualify to be part of this program where they'll receive treatment and they'll receive access to the services and the benefits that they've earned, so that earned so they can return back to the community as healthy citizens, the healthy citizens they were prior to service. >> i'm a friend of yours, and i'm a huge friend of yours. but this guy is the star. i have told you over there, tell your personal feelings when you were stuck for two tours in afghanistan and a tour in iraq, what were your feelings over there? >> when i got over there, i remember the first few incidents that happened where i was actually in combat were terrifying. and, after that, it's not so much that i got used to the combat, but i kind of went into a mode where the terrifying part, the nervous breakdowns and stuff, they stop happening. and you get used to the fact that in any second, there could
be it's no controlling it. no matter how good of a marine that you are, there's that chance that it could happen to you. so i lived with that throughout all of my deployments. and the actual trauma of it didn't really hit until i came home and was no longer in a combat zone. >> so were you waking up in the middle of the night? >> yeah, so when i came home, the first traumatic piece that it me was i had this feeling of being completely alone. i wanted to sit in my apartment. i didn't want any phone calls. i didn't want to talk to anybody, just the complete feeling of being alone. and there was also nightmares were a significant part for me. the panic was a significant part
for me. just the neurotic, i'm driving down the road and i see a garbage can sitting on the side of the road and i stop and swerve around it and it's not until a mile passed it that i realize that i'm not there anymore! that there's not a bomb in that trash can. >> right. >> so what drugs did you go to? >> the first drug that i got in was oxicontin, prescription drug. when i found that drug, i had quickly realized, you know, drugs are bad, right. but there's a reason why people do drugs. they're very, very effective at temporarily kill iing the sympts of mental illness. as long as i stayed on that drug, i was fine. and i didn't really much care about it. i didn't really think what's going to happen 20 years down the road if i'm hooked on oxycontin and heroin.
>> so i switched from oxycontin to heroin because i couldn't afford it imanymore. >> did you shoot yourself up? >> yes, i would. >> how did you get to that level? of strapping the vain on and putting it in. >> honestly, it was all a side effect of me not caring about my future anymore. you know, i tell this story, i spoke to a vietnam veteran at the v.a. one day and i was telling him i was going to recover, i was going to get better, i was going to go to therapy. and he said you don't understand it. there is no recovery. you made a sacrifice. tough live with that sacrifice. i didn't know it at that time, but it was true for his generation. vietnam veter rans didn't have things for treatment course. >> so tell me how you got interested in everything. >> i was broke, i didn't have money to support myself anymore. and i ended up cashing a stolen
check. i was in the hotel room one night and the police were called to the hotel room and they found a check on the floor. and that was a miracle that day. that was the day that my entire life turned around. if that wouldn't have hatch ppeu i would probably be dead. >> if that hadn . >> at that time, my parents had found this veteran's treatment corps. a judge put me on her calendar and, in may of 2009, i had my first date in veteran's treatment corps. that day was the last day that i ever touched a drug. and that was where she offered me an ultimatum. you're going to stop using drugs for a year or i'm going to put you in jail. i said, for right now, i just don't want to be in jail. i'll stop using drugs, i'll doo whatever you want me to do.
>> what would you have faced in terms of time? >> i believe it was 2-3 years because it was a federal crime. >> and you would have gone cold turkey in some prison without heroin? >> or there's drugs 234 prison, you know. so it would have either been that or got back out on to the street -- >> how long have you been clean now? >> i have been clean since may of 2009, so five years. >> congratulations. and thank you for your service. thank you. we talk about military. we talk about going to war. we argue about going to war and we don't talk about the people enough and what they face. we thank you, nick. and thank you, alice and janney. and if you'd like to donate to justice for vets, we'd like you to head site to the web siet on the screen, justi justiceforvets.org. pretty important. we'll be right back after this. bad news in email. good news -- fedex has flat rate shipping. it's called fedex one rate. and it's affordable.
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let me finish tonight with the fact made clear in iowa yesterday that hillary rodham clinton is running for president. if you doubt the fact, please consult any of the democrat who is have set their heart on becoming president and have not moved a muscle in that direction. it is this displacement of all the other democrats that the one democrat who matters 2in 2016 i ready to won.

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