Challenge to russian president Vladimir Putins iron grip on the country. This weekend, one of his closest allies Yevgeny Prigozhin leader of the Wagner Mercenary group turned against him, staging a 24hour revolt. Prigozhin mobilized his army of soldiers for hire to March On Moscow and suddenly he turned around and called it. Off and be Sears Kier Simmons is in moscow with the latest. Years in russia tonight, State Television is not showing these stunning images. Russians cheering for the leader of this weeks aborted rebellion. His soldiers as they leave the city of rostovondon. Their mutiny is bringing the country to the brink of chaos less than 24 hours ago when Yevgeny Prigozhin, the leader of the wagner group had a March To Moscow and response to what he called an attack on his fighters. Tanks and mercenary troops took to the streets, moving within 120 miles of the russian capital. Before unprecedented deal with President Putin, it was brokered by another president , belarusian leader alexander lukashenko. Apparently allowing the man behind the insurrection to go unpunished and into exile. It was the biggest challenge to Vladimir Putins power in 23 years. The president called prigozhins rebellion a betrayal. And a stab in the back. What is striking about, it it is internal. The fact that you have from within someone directly put questioning the authority of putin, over the weekends, wagner forces were coming out of ukraine and going into russia, toward moscow, in and of itself that is extraordinary. Nbc news has learned that u. S. Intelligence agencies were aware that prigozhin was planning a challenge to russias senior Military Leaders briefing congressional leaders about it last week. According to a source familiar with the matter. At the very, least President Putin has more problems today than he did yesterday with unknown consequences for his socalled special Military Operation in ukraine. There is a lot to break down. Lets get right to it and bring in democratic congressman Eric Swalwell of california. Hes on the Homeland Security committee. Thank you for being here tonight what is your reaction as you watch whats happening over this weekend in russia. Its clear that russia is not as unified as ukraine. Its not as unified as the United States and the Nato Alliance that we stitched together. We have to be careful not to interpret this as, you know, some precursor to what they call an east zorra. It would be a spark. In russian, they say from a spark a fire can flare up. I dont see this as a revolution that is about to take. Place what i see here is probably a little bit of delirium from prigozhin who has leveraged some of his concerns about battlefield readiness in the public to get more resources. And i think that here hes not seeking a revolution. He was seeking a command and control change. It does show that there is unrest in russia. For ukraine, they should lean in the counter offensive. Given all that weve, seen are we concerned about right russia might do in ukraine next . At least this was humiliating for them. Putin will want to show some sort of force here. Well, you know, putin has the benefit of state controlled. Media we look at this with a western perspective. We think, well, how embarrassing this must be. Hes going to have to lash out. The truth is, the best thing about this conflict, victor needs whatever Vladimir Putin wants to declare to be. They the problem he has now, he is probably going to have to Rob Resources from the battlefield in ukraine to better protect himself. Prigozhin move so fast. We never saw the Russian Military move that Fast Inside Ukraine the way that prigozhin put moscow at risk. We can only mean that putin is probably going to have to take resources away from ukraine to protect himself and thats where i think we have to look at this as russia fumbling the football on their own 20 yard line. So lets really do use the counter offensive to take advantage in the east. So, how do you think our Administration Needs to handle putin and the kremlin after this . What changes . Well, i think it has to always be about the territorial integrity of ukraine. Never to suggest that we are for regime change. For one, we are awful when we try to do a regime change. Two, to putin, putins russia and russias putin. So, if he sees this as the United States trying to foment regime change, if the russian people see, that they may be more likely to support him ratcheting it up and using a tactical nuke on the battlefield. I think just support ukraine as they make advantage to push russia out. Russia, again, they are going to be, theyre going to see their resources in decline as they have to move them to protect moscow. We dont have to do anything behind the scenes for regime change. And we do better if that was organic anyway. What are your republican colleagues saying about all of this . Well, there is responsible republicans who have supported the effort. There is the putin curious and the putin block. In their inaction, like Speaker Mccarthy who has said essentially is not gonna be any funding for ukraine, essentially helping putin. And thats right unity right now is so important. If we can do all we can right now to help ukraine make this push as russia is on its heels, this could change the course of the conflict and get russia finally out of ukraine. Given what has just happened this weekend do you think it makes things harder or easier to get congress on the same page to pass more for ukraine . He understands the importance of this. Senate republicans, Senate Democrats and alignment. You have House Democrats and the leadership on the republican side, at least on the Committee SidearmServices Foreign affairs. Speaker mccarthy, he has this dirty deal with Marjorie Taylor greene, matt gaetz, others, to stay in power. He can only go as far as they want to go. If you want to be a leader and recognize that this is a moment right now, we can do this. We can increase funding. If he sees himself as more important than what happens on the battlefield in ukraine, they are going to really suffer. Bacon not me this opportunity. What is the number one thing you want people watching to understand about what is happening in russia. This weekend was very confusing. There is a lot of misinformation out there. Yeah, this is only about ukraines territorial integrity. The United States is not trying to foment a revolution in russia. If we were seen as doing that, i think it would actually backfire. This has to be what the russian people want. That is the position that the Biden Administration thats what Secretary Blinken has been saying today. So, we should let that take shape. We should also understand that prigozhin, anyone that would follow putin is very likely going to also be like a murderous thug. Youre not going to replace them with navalny or an angel. Its going to be someone who probably also has pretty nationalist feelings about russia. Not pro ukraine at all. So, we have to be prepared for that. We have to be wideeyed as we go into this. I gangster for a gangster, congressman, thank you for joining us tonight. I appreciate it. My pleasure. Thank you, stephanie. With, that lets bring in our lead off panel this evening. Former white house senior director and former state Department Senior adviser kevin baron is here, the Executive Editor of defense one with more than 20 years in washingtons defense. National security and foreign affairs. William taylor, former u. S. Ambassador to ukraine, he is also the United States institute of peace, Vice President for russia and europe, ambassador, lets start with you. Your reaction to what we have seen play out over the last 72 hours. Stephanie, the remarkable thing, the weakness of President Putin. His grip on power seems to be shaken. His ability to act seems to be constrained. He had to go to president lukashenko is not known to be a heavyweight in this area in order to get some kind of agreement. Im not entirely clear on what lukashenko brought to the table. I think the big message was the weakness of President Putin and this is to the advantage of the congressman of human crime. Ukraine has an opportunity to take advantage of this turmoil. Of this fracture at the top of the kremlin. Kevin, same question to you. Your reaction to this weekend. Well, im looking at a couple of things. One, like the ambassador, how do the ukrainians take advantage of this. How is the west helping them. Most importantly, on the ground. Its territory. Thats the name of the game. We were watching this counteroffensive slowly unfold. And now what happens, how distracted are the russians of the wagner fighters . Beyond that, i think i am looking at the longer term gain of what happens to the big picture future of russia. The endgame is not just ukraine pushes russia out. The endgame is what happens putin is gone. Weve heard from a long time that nobody was sure or hot that if putin was gone. I think that made this clear. Again, if you think of prigozhins weekend as something less than a fullsize coup, you didnt want to take over and sit in the kremlin and run moscow. He just had some beef about how he was being treated. Hows men were being treated. Well, nothing else really changes in moscow other than we know putin is in a weaker state. There is a longer term and a short term to treat attention to. Niagara, what is your reaction . One up but includes his idolize, someone who helped execute his imperialist vision on the world stage, suddenly, not only walking away from the agenda, but challenging at. And saying that he wants his own piece of the pie. You dont march a Paramilitary Group toward the capitol because you think the guy in the kremlin is doing a great job. In fact, for several months, prigozhin has been talking about how the Ministry Of Defense, the russian army itself, has been failing in ukraine and that his people who are mercenaries, he has been called a warlord, are the ones that are bearing the brunt of putins vision. This is not a unified group of individuals who are executing putins agenda. The folks who have been on the fence when it comes to defending ukraine, like saudi arabia, like turkey, like china, they should take notice that russia and putin in particular is not all in alignment. Not as powerful as we seem to think it is. Ambassador, there are endless reasons why Vladimir Putin should be challenged. How surprising is it to see this particular person, a man that putin essentially made be the one to do it . He did make prigozhin. Youre exactly right, stephanie. And this is another bad decision that President Putin made. Now hes made several that are big ones and bad ones. Big and bad decisions. Obviously, the decision to invade his neighbor, to invade ukraine. That is a big blunder. And then to give prigozhin the ability to do things, resources, the ability to take prisoners out of jail, to put them on the front line. To emphasize what prigozhin is doing. And then the emphasize what putin is doing. So, putin has made some real mistakes here. Prigozhin is one of them. Kevin, what does it say that the wagner group was able to get so close to moscow in such a short amount of time . , yeah ive heard people talk about this. I think that a little bit of grain of salt. This is not the same as if the u. S. Army was on its way to moscow and made it that close or any nato country. It was supposedly a friend of putins. These are russians advancing toward russians. So, of course it was surprising that there wasnt as much of a fight put up to keep them from getting anywhere near. There was a fight. Men died yesterday in this advance. I think it showed the speed at which it happened. It caught everyone by surprise, including moscow. And it shows a bit of the slowness of the response. Ive had some analysis that points out that there is a lack of supply and planning the echelon, if you think of the russian flinch as the part of ukraine that behind those lines, behind the staging grounds, it was not much of a defense. You wouldnt expect that. Russias always been someone coming from moscow. So, it was, you know, an unplanned event with an unplanned defense. I wouldnt go farther than that and say that somehow this is an opening for the u. S. To do anything inside of russia or for the if anything, it is what people are using to demonstrate, theyre using it to say, call putins bluff for any of the hesitation you may have had to get more advanced weapons to ukraine. Like the attack, it was like f16s. Or to make a move on crimea. These bigger moves that some western leaders have been afraid would trigger putin into some response against the rest. A lot of those folks think, hey, putin could get its act together yesterday. Take advantage. This shows how to shovel they are. Maybe you could go for crimea. Maybe you could put that more advanced stuff. And maybe this counteroffensive could be far more aggressive and really, were afraid of something we dont need to be afraid of. Now your, at what will all of this mean though for the future of the wagner group . Prigozhin is not a hero in this case. He is somebody who has taken money to be brutal on the battlefield. Everywhere from syria to ukraine. Many of the atrocities that we have been covering and weve heard and documented have been conducted by his group of people. Absent to his leadership on the battlefield, there is, as kevin, said an opportunity for allies and for the ukrainians to be moving forward. It also shows that the idea of negotiating with putins is not the path forward. Putin does not have a grip on the battlefield. In fact, he doesnt have a grip on the Ministry Of Defense. Hes lost a dozen or more on the battlefield. One of his closest allies is now effectively walking away from him. Executing his vision. Putin does not have that Negotiating Power to determine how to carve up ukraine as some of suggested. What he can do is withdraw and end the war. Anding it really is up to putin. The United States, the allies, and ukraine need to keep the pressure in that regard. Ambassador, does what happened this weekend changed relations between russia and the u. S. , russia and any other country in the west . It does, it suggests that as kevin was saying earlier, putin is less powerful, hes less influential, he has less of a grip. That suggests that there are things that we could and should be doing in particular to support the ukrainians in this counteroffensive at the weapons that they them have said and we really need. , yes the weakness that President Putin has shown does affect him. They probably affect some visavis china. China was always saw President Putin as the junior partner, the Little Brother. And now the Little Brother is less powerful than even they thought. Others around the world are noticing that as well. Kevin, can you dig deeper for us . We are doing some coverage on the wagner group and who they are. Put into context who they are and what they have done for putin and specifically prigozhins role in that. Who this guy is. To add to what bill, said dont, forget there is a nato summit in three weeks. All of this is happening and it hasnt changed the relationship with nato with the United States. Youd expect that there is much more emboldened set of leaders going to that event. In the last couple of weeks, a lot of us have been reporting about how the bachelors and leaders are talking about what they should announce at that conference. Should they announced that they are officially going to ukraine to give them a path to membership. I would assume that this weekends events give them a lot more courage to go down that path. As far as the wagner group, the wagner groups, you, know was the largest private Military Force we knew of consequence. As nigh are said, they worked in syria. They worked in africa. They were in ukraine. They are doing bad things and all these places. They are acting as a lot of these Military Contra Charter groups do. The worst of it, they are completely unbound by any kind of ethics and any kind of moral code that a lot of soldiers have become part in the west. So, they are sent to do their dirty work. The thing, is almost all of russias work is dirty work in these areas. They operate in areas where the United States has, frankly, pulled out out of it. They are active in syria where the United States used to be. When they try to they got wiped off the map. They are active in places where the world is not looking. In dark corners where people are suffering. Resources are being exploited and bad deals are made and bad. Dictators and leaders. The west is letting it happen. So, turning to ukraine. We all know the story that the russian