Postal service. His alleged crimes laundering money and defrauding hundreds of thousands of donors. The bannon indictment coming from the Southern District of new york where the attorney general sought to decapitate the office. From the New York Times mr. Bannon was arrested early thursday on a 35 million, 150foot yacht off the coast of connecticut. Working with the coast guard federal postal inspectors and special agents boarded the vessel. He was arrested days before mr. Trump was to be nominated for a second term. Also making legal headlines the federal judge ruling against the president and paving the way for trumps tax returns to be turned over. Also from New York Times reporting a federal judge rejected President Trumps latest effort to block the Manhattan District Attorney from obtaining his tax returns. Dismissing mr. Trumps arguments that the prosecutors grand jury subpoena was wildly overbroad. That setback pofor the presidens legal plight that might force the handing over of Donald Trumps tax returns. It only underscored warnings from former president obama last night about the stakes of the election. Donald trump hasnt grown into the job because he cant. The consequences of that failure are severe. 170,000 americans dead. Millions of jobs gone. Those at the top take more than ever. Our worse impulses unleashed. Our proud reputation around the world badly diminished. Our Democratic Institutions threatened like never before. That dire warning and todays legal blows are where we start today. Dan goldman, former assistant United States attorney for the Southern District of new york. Plus peter baker is here and former republican congressman david jolly joins us. I have to start with you, peter baker. You know a lot about president obama. You know a lot about the way he uses words around the way he uses speeches to sometimes try to transcend moments and sometimes move moments. What did you make of that speech last night and the bleak picture he painted of a second donald trump term . Well, it is a bleak picture. I went back and watched his 2008 Convention Speech when he accepted the nomination. The journey between these two speeches, between the 12 years in between, was remarkable. He had tough things to say about your former boss, george w. Bush, but it was a dispute of issues. He didnt question john mccains character or patriotism. They had a disagreement about the way forward in the country. Last night you heard a former president clearly on the edge of a very emotional moment for him. He seemed to me to be kind of really wrapped up in the moment in which hes saying americas democracy is at stake. Its not a disagreement about policies. In his view hes saying donald trump is a threat to america. That may be democratic rhetoric if you dont believe in that. If you believe in donald trump, it might sound hollow. I believe it was a passionate plea to the country to stand up, take stock and see whats happening. Peter baker, my theory when i watched it im a student of all his speeches. Theyre masterfully crafted. Theyre almost always masterfully delivered as well. I thought he was speaking from just a pit of despair, that any living president would feel in watching the sort of annihilation of the rule of law, the smear and slander of the United States intelligence committee, many of whom die serving this country without fanfare because of the nature of the work they do. What do you think about just the strategic decision to uncork all that . I think thats exactly right, nicolle. Even in 2008 there was a fundamentally optimistic message. Hope and change, it was positive and forward. Last night he seemed like a man who was very, very upset, very, very distraught at the pace of the country, maybe even pessimistic. I think it stems from years of watching on the sidelines, not just his own accomplishments being unravelled by President Trump, but the view of the president that didnt share the institutions and the way of doing business that republicans and democrats have done prior to President Trumps arrival. He was somebody who sees this as bigger than a policy difference, bigger than a typical Election Year contrast of ideas, but a moment where the country has to evaluate where its going. Watching the news from a foreign capitol, would be like watching a famous mob family prosecution from a foreign capit capitol. Donald trump was asked about another one of his men being indicted. Lets watch that exchange. Its not just steve bannon. Its roger stone, michael flynn, paul manafort, Michael Cohen. What does it say about your judgment and the culture of l lawlessness there was great lawlessness by the obama administration. They spied on our campaign. They had tremendous lawlessness. I wasnt involved in the project. I have no idea who was. Lets debunk the lie. There was no illegal spying despite bill barr saying thats what it was called. The idea that i mean, obama was almost famously scandal free. What is this projection . Donald trump has a circle of people and its getting closer and closer to him. Hes an unindicted coconspirator in the Southern District of new york. What does that culture say to you as someone who prosecuted organizations . I have. Donald trump speaks and acts very much like a mob boss. As with all organizations, criminal or otherwise, people take their cues from the top. What we have seen over the last three and a half years is that donald trump views the presidency as his personal piggy bank, as a vehicle for him to explore his personal interests. So its no real surprise that people around him are doing the same. Paul manafort during the 2016 campaign. Steve bannon now using his association with donald trump and the immigration policy to raise an amount of money on go fund me and it was all a fraud. That is pure projection, nicolle. Obviously no one in obamas inner circle was indicted. It was remarkably scandal free as you pointed out. Its his mechanism of deflection, of avoiding the elephant in the room, which is he has not only surrounded himself with the best people, hes surrounded himself with criminals and thats what you get when you sort of lead from the top in the way that he has. I want to go through the two developments and explain them to me, dan goldman. Take me through why the Southern District of new york would use the Postal Service which is very much in the news right now for another reason, Donald Trumps efforts to corrupt it to slow mailin voting ahead of november. Why have they made the arrest and what happens next . The first thing to know is this is clearly an investigation thats gone on for sometime. It notes that the now indicted defendants became aware of the investigation in october of last year. A lot of the public Corruption Cases in the Southern District of new york actually initiate from within the office. There are excellent experienced investigators within that office who bring and develop cases on their own. They often bring in a Law Enforcement agency to assist them. I dont know how this began. It doesnt jump out at me to be a surprise that the Postal Inspection Service would be involved in this. This is a fairly typical fraud scheme. Essentially making misrepresentations to get other people to give money and pilfer that money for your own personal benefits and your own personal gain. As with many indictments there are some sort of fun things they spent the money on such as cosmetic surgery, a boat, other personal expenses. The one thing ill say indictment is it seems to be pretty open and shut. They have text messages. They have emails. They clearly have a lot of bank records. They charge Money Laundering in addition to wire fraud which has an enhanced sentencing. Theyre potentially facing many years in jail if they do not cut a deal to cooperate on either each other or anyone else they may have information about. Because its donald trump surrounded by surrounded by felons, we have to talk about Donald Trumps tax returns. Let me read this. He renewed his fight for an argument against the subpoena of his taxes. His lawyers argued it was issued in a fit of peak, simply copying a subpoena by Congressional Democrats who have been frustrated in their efforts to obtain the president s financial information. The judge dismissed the argument saying the judicial process didnt transform into an incident of incapacitating and harassment. It sounds like hes saying no one is above the law, which is what the Supreme Court said. What does it mean in terms of how the case proceeds . Do they have a better chance of accessing Donald Trumps tax returns . Yes. When donald trump made this argument, it was pretty much the argument they made to the Supreme Court and it was rejected. They threw in the kitchen sink to try to delay the d. A. From getting the documents. There could be two reasons, one, so it wont affect the election and, two, because there could be statutes of limitation. There is no judge that would say these allegations could work when they dont know what else is part of the investigation. A judge cant tell a prosecutor no, you cant ask for the records when they show theres a good faith basis for it. Its not a surprise. Were seeing the delay tactics of the president. Ultimately the records will go to the d. A. s office. Donald trump will appeal it to the second court of appeals. Theyll have briefing and oral argument. There will be a decision. I think its unlikely all that happens in less than three months. David jolly, its highly likely that win or lose donald trump will be in court as a criminal defendant for a long time to come. If you could just pull these two threads together, i thought what president obama did last night was chilling. It was haunting. Then there were two new examples of precisely what he was warning the country was at risk this morning when we woke up. Thats exactly right, nicolle. What was left unsaid by president obama, by Michelle Obama, by Hillary Clinton, as they hit donald trump where we know it hurts, which is his abandonment of law and order, his flaunting of the rules, his using the white house for his own pocket book, what was left unsaid is donald trump thrives within a culture of criminality. We were reminded of that in todays two stories. To dans point i fully agree the legal strategy could benefit the president is to get this past november. The likelihood it would be leaked and did before the elect unlikely. Michael cohen is an unindicted coconspirator. The bannon news has to rest on trumps shoulder. Bannon is a grifter. He left breitbart and associated with trump when no one else would do so. When he left trump, he said he was unpatriotic because of his russia behavior. Then he launched this platform and hung his flag with roy moore of all people. The tact thfact that the gang cp with steve bannon is no surprise. The take away is we have a president who has empowered the likes of bannon, cohen, manafort and others. Let me put up the list. Ri rick gates, paul manafort, george papadopoulos, michael fly flynn, mike cohen and steve bannon. Hes the only person who has to provide a pardon as part of a benefits package. Everyone that goes in comes in with a lack of any ethics, some a pattern of criminal conduct. The rub here i think again the intersection to president obamas warning is that donald trump brings that into the office with no corners thats supposed to stand for something around the world. My question is, how do you turn that into an argument to make every day while people are losing their jobs, worried about their health, stressed about school, how do you take that to the American People over the next 70 days . Nicolle, that is the real challenge here. Donald trump runs a team of grifters. Its a craft he has perfected and the people around him see an opportunity to continue. I think even as were watching the dnc this week the democrats are having to make a choice. Are you pressing that theory of the case, that donald trump is unfit to be president , or are you giving the policy platform that responds to people hurting . For some people its not enough to say trump caused these problems. Lets get rid of him. Weve seen this platform of robust ideas from health care to taxes. Democrats are sprinkling that in. Its competing with the message that donald trump is a threat. Has biden left the obamas and hillarys and other press the case against donald trump and we see policy from biden . Peter baker, there was a deal mentioned. I hear deal and i hear donald trump and all his attacks on flippers and rats. He sits atop the department of justice which calls those people cooperating witnesses to prosecute federal crimes. What do you think donald trump really thinks . Usually when someone close to him is indicted he starts saying really nice things about them so they dont do what dan goldman just said, a deal. Yeah, really nice things about them or distancing himself from them. Right, i never knew him. He said he worked for the campaign for a short amount of time and hadnt had anything to do with him since he left. We dont know that the president had anything to do with this scam obviously, but who knows what steve bannon might know and might try to raise with prosecutors if that turns out to be a negotiating tactic. I dont know. He has said things in the past in which he has offered his theories about President Trump and russia that dont always sound flattering. I dont know that he has the evidence that would be worthwhile to a prosecutor. No evidence that he knows something that he hasnt told us yet. Dan goldman would probably know better about that subject. If youre the president , every time someone gets invite frd your circle you have to wonder what meeting was in in, what exposure would he bring. Dan goldman, tell me your assessment of the Southern District of new york. That office held in the Michael Cohen sentencing memo that donald trump is an unindicted coconspirator. There was a dramatic departure of its head Geoffrey Berman, a power struggle with barr. I know we dont know what is ongoing, but what is your sense of the strength with which theyre functioning today . Are they at full strength . Theyre absolutely at full strength. You can take away the head of it, but the engine is still there and still pumping away and theres an institutional experience and value and aggressiveness that remains no matter who is at the helm. The one big question that this begs is was Geoffrey Berman fired because of this investigation. The explanation we got from bill barr through the public, through the press, does not make sense. Yeah. We have not yet got an explanation that makes any sense as to why on a friday night he needed to fire Geoffrey Berman five months before an election. Just real briefly, nicolle, to talk about what steve bannon could deliver, steve bannon was in the campaign. He was very involved in communication based on the Mueller Report and the Senate Intelligence report with roger stone. He knew what was going on with wikileaks. Donald trump lied to mueller under oath when he said he had no idea. Steve bannon could be a witness that would be able to reveal that information and an admissible witness. We know it, but somebody has to be able to testify to it. Steve bannon might be somebody who could do that. Dan goldman, always great to talk to you. Peter and david, were not done with you yet. When we come back turning all our attention to tonights big speech from joe biden who has benefited from a pitchperfect week of powerhouse speeches. How will joe biden close out the week . And we know donald trump has been glued to the Democratic Convention all week based on his all caps live tweets. Clearly hes been distressed by it. Well look at the president s petty attempt to block programming. Plus if youre a dangerous underground racist that the fbi warns the country about, that social Media Outlets are taking down your posts, but youve said nice things about donald trump, youve got nothing to worry about. 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