Whom he spoke shortly after comeys firing, rosenstein was shaken, unsteady and overwhelmed. Another person in touch with rosenstein around that time said he sounded frantic, nervous, upset and emotionally disregulated. In one of these conversations with the acting fbi director at the time, andrew mccabe, rosenstein became visibly upset. Joining us now from the New York Times mike schmidt who just broke this story, nbc news Intelligence National security reporter ken dilanian and frank figliuzzi, fbi assistant director for Counter Intelligence. Mike schmidt, take us through what your reporting about unknown and emotional reaction from the Deputy Attorney general. This was an incredibly important time. This is between the comey firing and when mueller is appointed. A little more than a week. What was going on in rosensteins head, he was very concerned about how he had been used by the white house as the person to explain the firing. They had used this memo that he had written about comeys handling of the clinton email investigation as the basis for the firing, what they put out to explain it. And he thought that that was wrong, and that he was the fall guy, the scapegoat for this. He had only been the Deputy Attorney general for two weeks. Now, from trumps point of view, what he doesnt understand is why is it that rosenstein played along with the comey firing, wrote the memo, but then went ahead and appointed mueller to investigate that incident. What changed and thats important. I want to read a little more from the story which just posted 15 minutes ago. So you guys are reporting that rosensteins meeting shows his mindset at one of the critical points of mr. Trumps administration. Eight days between mr. Comey was fired and rosenstein appointed Robert Mueller as special counsel. In that stretch, rosenstein went from a supporting actor in the dismissal of mr. Comey to the official overseeing the investigation in which the firing was the focus. You guys also write that rosenstein is both the ultimate supervisor of that case and will determine what information is eventually provided to congress and a key participant in the matter being investigated. Mr. Trumps lawyers also regard him as one of the essential witnesses for the president s defense because mr. Rosenstein, they say, wanted to get rid of comey. You touched on this, but just detail how complicated it is to be Rod Rosenstein. Were going to get to yesterdays fiery testimony. I talked to Senior Justice Department officials today who said they welcome the opportunity to show how even keeled the Deputy Attorney general is. But your reporting certainly doesnt describe that side of him and his role is treemly fraught with peril from all political directions. Well, its so conflicted. And as he is the chief or very important witness in the comey firing, he is also dealing with this issue on capitol hill where he has these republicans that are going after them. Hes trying to buy them off, trying to give them this information on an ongoing investigation, a highly unusual thing to try and give mueller more time to do what hes going to do. It is a very, very interesting spot for him and its all because Jeff Sessions recused himself. That is the original thing that gets us to where we are. Sessions stepping aside, allowing rosenstein, and the president obsessing over that decision. The president very upset that, that sessions had recused himself. He doesnt trust rosenstein and he blames the special counsel on both of them. Let me read some of that reporting from the piece. In the afternoon that mr. Muellers appointment was announced, mr. Sessions was in the oval office with the president discussing candidates to the fbi director when they both learned that mr. Rosenstein had made its decision. Mr. Trump erupted in anger saying he needed someone overseeing the investigation to be loyal to him. Mr. Sessions offered to resign. You also report that rosenstein had every right to be furious over the way this all went down for him and a source close to rosenstein says the white house put greyhound tires on his back. They threw him under the bus. Lots of hurt feelings to go around. Yeah. I mean, the original problem here is that the president wanted to send his own fourpage letter to comey about why he should be fired and the white house counsel, don mcgahn looked at that letter and said, this is not a good idea. The president had mentioned the fact that comey said he wasnt under investigation in russia, but the letter was rambling, it went on and on like one of the president s stump speeches. What happens is mcgahn brings in sessions and rosenstein who were already interested in getting rid of comey, and they used sessions and rosenstein as the rationale for the comey firing, as the explanation for it. And people find it funny because donald trump is essentially saying jim comey was too mean to hillary clinton. And, frank figliuzzi, there is some extraordinary irony in the layers of Rod Rosenstein being peeled back the day after such brutal attacks from members of his own party. Rosenstein, a lifelong republican under blistering attacks from republicans in the House Judiciary Committee. When it turns out he wasnt ever comfortable being the fall guy for the president s decision to fire jim comey. Yeah, so yesterday was quite a disgrace to watch and most americans should just be very troubled by the blatant personal attacks on both the fbi director chris wray, appointed by President Trump, and the Deputy Attorney general rosenstein, a republican, brought in with trump. And yet what were seeing, nicolle, is essentially a slowmotion train collision about to occur between the republicans in congress who are hell bent on finding a way to get rosenstein out and stop the special counsel investigation and the d. O. J. Train, and these two trains are about to collide, sitting squarely on the tracks is the special counsel. So, whats happening here is time is being bought by d. O. J. And fbi to allow mueller to finish his job. But what im telling you is going to happen, sometime in the next 30 to 60 days is that collision is going to really come very close. And whats going to happen is the republicans on the hill are going to start demanding the names of informants and under cover agents. We saw a hint of that yesterday. At some point d. O. J. And fbi will have to say no. Lives will be lost, we cant recruit another source again, we cant disclose this and collisions are going to occur. Frank, what do you make of this new reporting about rosenstein becoming uncomfortable with the way the white house was use i remember that day. I remember being on the air when we learned comey had been fired. I remember watching Kellyanne Conway reading from, i think it was a fourpage memo, reading from it on the north lawn as she did interviews and wondering, i dont know if thats the whole story. To learn that hes been uncomfortable with the white house posture toward the department and some aspects and mikes reporting takes us through some discomfort with mccabe and learning about the comey memos as well. But to learn that the white house gave him pause that early in the administration, certainly ties the thread to yesterday in a more clear way. So, what were seeing in rosenstein is a man, as many Public Servants similar to him have experienced, which is you go by the letter of the law and you make certain assumptions that our system works when all three branches are acting all the actors in them are acting as honest brokers, right . Thats the premise of your Public Service career. So rosenstein drafts that memo suggesting the departure of comey, but he does so based on solid facts. The i. G. Said comey went out of bounds. His judgment was poor. Rosenstein does that. Within minutes or even days of this happening, he realizes, im not dealing with an honest broker in the white house. There is a political agenda here and im being used, and thats what weve seen happen. And hence the story of so many people who come into contact with this white house. Ken dilanian, i want to get your thoughts on Mike Schmidts reporting and the mike flynn sentencing. I think its fascinating were hearing this story now, nicolle. It suggests the stenlt to which Rod Rosenstein has had it. Hes at the end of his rope. Our colleague Julie Ainsley said he was having late night phone calls with friends and was resigned to the fact he might be fired. Here i stand. This is recorded further evidence. The fact folks are willing to disclose this. Its not surprising. I remember talking to Pete Williams how rosensteins appointment of mueller was in a sense his way of trying it get some of his reputation back after being so badly used in the comey firing. And now were seeing sort of the details of that. But its absolutely clear a that he is at the end of his rope and yesterdays hearing was just the latest kpamt Luis Palomino of that. And, ken dilanian, let me get you to switch topics for us. I know you have some thoughts on the sen 10 ing of the delay of mike flynn who pleaded guilty and is a cooperating witness. Hes on team america now. Right. We have to be careful about reading too much into this. As frank well knows. But the fact that they are continuing to delay mike flynns sentence, mike flynn is cooperating with Robert Muellers investigation suggests that he still has a lot more to give them. And you can contrast that with george papadopoulos, another Trump Campaign aide who pleaded guilty and was nominally cooperating. His sentencing has been scheduled for september. They are sort of done with him it appears at this point. But flynn may have a lot more to say. Interestingly, you know, these stories cross because devin nunes sent a letter to the fbi demanding all evidence of contacts between fbi informants and under cover agents and a list of Trump Campaign officials. And on that list was mike flynn. So apparently devin nunes thinks that mike flynn was at some point talking to an fbi informant, nicolle. Frank figliuzzi, can you go over the sen 10 ing of mike flynn and the notion they are dealing with ongoing requests for an unprecedented, it would appear, level of detail about an ongoing investigation. So, first, a couple thoughts on the flynn sentencing being delayed. First, look, i think whats apparent here is that the president may well intend to pardon flynn. And if you sentence him, the pardon could come down very, very quickly. If you draw this out, its unlikely the president is going to do a presentencing pardon. So thats one aspect of it. The second is there is a hint here flynn is not fully cooperated or done yet and they want to keep this hanging over his head so thats that my theory on that. With regard to the demands, unprecedented demands during a pending investigation for details on informants, sources, under cover agents, weve got to see this for what it is. It is nothing more than a blatant attempt to get rosenstein and or chris wray to say, no, we cant do it, and then theyll be held in contempt or there will be impeachment proceedings against them. Well face trump appointees being held in contempt by a Republican Congress in an attempt to protect trump. Mike schmidt, let me bring you back to the point of pardon which was raised. I hadnt thought about delaying mike flynns sentence being delayed. Dangling the prospect of pardon, there is a pardon history already with mr. Flynn. And pardons are in the questions that mueller wants to ask trump about. He wants to ask what trump knew about this, did trump have surrogates reaching out to flynn to raise this prospect with him. There had been reporting last year by yahoo news flynn had this call with the president in which the president said for him to stay strong. Or the president was trying to send a message to him in that sense. So, there are sort of larger questions on the pardon issue there. And as frank points out, this sort of delays this. On the sentencing of mueller probably the most unsatisfiling part of this is there is so much we dont know. We really dont know why mueller delayed it, why he continues to hold this over flynn. And we continue to be surprised by what goes on. I realize thats not the easiest thing for everyone to get their head around, but thats sort of where things are. Frank, you talk most days about the known and unknowns about the mueller probe. This seems like another one. If you could tie these two stories together, the idea that rosenstein from the very beginning of the Trump Presidency, so unnerved, described someone deeply rattled and emotional about what they were asked to do in service of this president , and mike flynn, someone who was dangled or offered or maybe flirted with the idea of a pardon now with the sentencing delayed, there is a commonality of everyone that comes in contact with this white house. It seems to have some sort of either ignorance of the rule of law or disdain for it or effort or desire to go around it, doesnt it . Well, and what we see, nicolle, is that certain people who have some semblance of normalcy and justice and rule of law end up departing the white house. And thats whats happening. With rosenstein, we have a different situation. Hes not part of the white house. And as he said yesterday a couple of times, i have a duty here. I have an obligation here. So weve got a man who must be just restlessly trying to sleep at night figuring out how do i fill my duty as Deputy Attorney general of the United States and overseeing an unprecedented special counsel investigation, trying to ensure that the president and the gop is happy enough to allow us to get our job done, yet not give it all up and start divulging things that should never be divulges ed in middle of the case. I feel for him, i empathize with him. We have to call our members of kopg and say, look, mueller, rosenstein need protection. We need a bill to protect them. We need to allow this to finish. Let me give you the last line of your story. Quoting the citys fictional son rocky, its not how hard you can hit, its how hard you can hit and keep moving forward. That is certainly his experience at this hour. The question hanging over rosenstein is what will the president do about him. The president doesnt think he has the Political Capital to go ahead and fire him. The president is afraid of that. He has scar tissue left over from the comey firing and i think hes afraid of what the senate would do if he went forward with that. The question is the president waiting till after the mid terms or is Rod Rosenstein someone he can never get rid of. Well have to see until later this year for that to play out. Bob mueller wants to know the answer to all of those questions, right . I mean, the questions that bob mueller has for the president. I mean, still this large thing hanging out there, will the president sit down and talk to bob mueller and answer the questions that he wants him to. Mike schmidt, thank you for your reporting. Thanks for sharing it with us. When we come back, more on the war on justice and those explosive charges from Congressional Republicans and how rosenstein is pushing back. Also ahead, inside the Quiet Campaign to guarantee donald trump a Second Supreme Court vacancy. Exclusive new reporting from the New York Times. 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Certainly when i was minding my own business in private practice in atlanta, i didnt think i was going to be spending the first ten months of my job staring down the barrel of a contempt citation for a conduct that occurred long before i even thought about being fbi director. Having said that, i am committed to making sure that were responsive t