By his thinking, why deprive good friday visitors of a good visit to an iconic irish pub. Submit ted without judgment. That is our program for a friday nig night. Whatever your persuasion, we wish you a good weekend. Good night from our headquarters here in new york. Hi, everyone. Its 4 00 in new york. Icing is in and public criticism of russia is still very much out. Nbc news with extraordinary reporting about Donald Trumps quote, president Donald TrumpsNational Security advisor spent months trying to convince him to sign off on a plan to supply new u. S. Weapons to ukraine to aid in the countrys fight against russianbacked separatists. When the president finally authorized the major policy shift, he told his aides not to publicly tell his decision because doing so might agitate russian president Vladimir Putin. Quote, he doesnt want to bring it up, one white house official tells nbc news. It is not something he wants to talk about, this source says. This new reporting helps fill in the blanks around what trump watchers have coined the president s do not congratulate call. That one where trump, over the objections of his National Security advisors and in sharp contrast to the public statements from other american elected officials, congratulated Vladimir Putin on his election victory. Nbc news reports that President Trump also said to putin, quote, if you want to have an arms race, we can do that. Now, while americans have debated whether to take trump literally or not, putin wasted no such time with that kind of foolishness, testing a new Ballistic Missile earlier today to help unpack the increase increasingly bizarre relationship between donald trump and russia, we brought in some of our best exporerts and reporters. Nbc news National Security military reporter courtney cube, one of the by lines of the report we started with. Jill colvin, White House Reporter for the a. P. Chuck rosenberg, former u. S. Attorney, former senior fbi official, now lucky for us an msnbc contributor. And Steve Schmidt is back with us today. Courtney, let me start with you on your reporting, and i think this is a Development Since your story broke. Im sure prompted by the incredible detail in this account. But i understand that the much now expulsion of Russian Diplomats didnt have anything to do with the number of Russian Diplomats in this country at all. The head count could very much remain the same. It seems like another data point in the picture you paste you paint of a very conflicted donald trump when it comes to russia policy and russia p. R. Thats right. So he was presented last week with President Trump was presented with three different options and he ended up going with the middle one, the one that was in the middle of a lighter option against Vladimir Putin and the one that was the harshest, and that included expelling the diplomats from the United States. What we found here was President Trump has to be really pushed along when it comes to doing things when it comes to any kind of response to Vladimir Putin and russias continued provocations. One of the specific cases that we looked into was arms sales to ukraine. The proposal to send javelin antitank missiles to ukraine in their fight against russia sat on the president s desk from august until december. Now outgoing Secretary Of StateRex Tillerson along with other Administration Officials had to really continue to press President Trump to approve this deal and to send the weapons to ukraine. Courtney, do you get any sense from being in the building
that you cover that, you know, these military relationships, some of the intelligence relationships have been described to me as almost existing in a parallel reality with Donald Trumps public pronouncements and twitter feed. Do you get any sense that this clash, that the fact that this sat on his desk for a good and important ally that has relied on the United States of america in previous administrations, that this is starting to strain the relationship between some of our important allies, at least from the pentagons perspective . No, i mean you were spot on that they have a very different relationship, that it exists in a whole parallel universe. We often hear about general dunford, having discussions with his russian counterpart. There is this continuing no matter all the diplomatic problems that happen, there is this continuing deconfliction line. What that is, its a way for the Russian Military and the u. S. Military to talk on the phone directly to make sure that theres no altercations or any
kind of problems in the air over syria where theyre operating in really increasingly close space all the time. While there are sort of the incidents here and there, they continue no matter what happens on the diplomatic side, no matter what happens on the provocations from Vladimir Putin or conversations the u. S. Military and the Russian Military continue to operate in a pretty professional way, nicolle. Jill colvin, you cover that building. Im guessing there is nothing on background here from white house officials that surprised you. But its pretty stunning to read in sort of the public sphere, courtney and our colleague kristen and carols reporting, that aides said we cant go there, we cant talk about it. He doesnt want to tout his policy decisions. Is this consistent with sort of the what you hear from being in the building you cover, the one behind you . You know, whats so interesting about that is that kind of really provided the internal script of what we all see play out every single day, which is we see weve seen
the press conferences, the president s twitter feed he wont go after putin, after the Nerve Gas Attack in london. The president has not weighed in. The two issues he doesnt want to talk about Stormy Daniels and Vladimir Putin, the two people folks say again and again he doesnt want to criticize. There was Something Interesting in that story, that was his concerns about the potential arms war, the new Nuclear Weapons that putin claims to have created here. I thought it was really interesting that was the one area the president really seemed to get up there and be willing to be confrontational with putin telling him, you know what, if youre going to go and build these, were going to build them even bigger. The president is someone who likes to project this strength and this air of power about him. And if youve got putin who is kind of trying to play that same game with him, thats one area you might see the president potentially step up. Steve schmidt, do you think that might have anything to do with any nuanced understanding of the cold war . Do you think it would have to do with having bigger and better missiles . I think for sure hes making it up as hes going along. Theres been no articulation, certainly not of a coherent strategy with regard to whats arising geopolitical adversary russia. A country with thousands of Nuclear Weapons, though its economy is smaller than the state of californias, it poses significant risk. And Vladimir Putins number one objective is to undermine faith and trust in democracy across the western world. And in donald trump, he has a faithful ally because it is the president of the United States and his administration with their constant attacks on the rule of law on the intelligence community, on the justice department, and other vital institutions that are doing Vladimir Putins dirty work. That would be of interest to him and what sorts of crimes he could be possibly investigating if this change in the platform and all of the context and communications between Trump Campaign officials and russians that we now know about are on bob muellers radar, too . Sure, nicolle. Thanks for having me. Some acts appear on their face to be benign, some appear to be ambiguous, some can appear to be nefarious. Changing the platform on its face can be completely benign. Let me give you an example. If you and i went out and bought ski masks that would be benign. Particularly if we went skiing. If we bought ski mask ands robbed a bank, that purchase looks quite nefarious. The mueller team is collecting all this data, asking tons of questions, trying to understand motives because what may appear ambiguous can in retrospect turnout to be quite nefarious. Analysis, right . If done for completely innocent reasons, if the Republican Party decided their platform was better without these planks than with them, then thats fine. Thats the product of discussion and contemplation and negotiation. If they did it in return for something, something of value, either money or some other consideration, that could well be bribery. And so whats mueller looking at . Bribery and Obstruction Of Justice and interfering in the election. In several different manifestations, maybe to steal data and use it to the advantage of the campaign, or perhaps to just keep the russian government from releasing Compromising Information on the president. I dont know what the answer is yet, but i know that this pattern of conduct will help elucidate that. Steve schmidt, one of the most searing memories of the 2018 campaign which we both served on mccain, he started
most days by talking to one of his dearest friends, the leader of georgia, and i remember i was on the road with him and you called me. He talked every morning on his cell phone, on a colleagues cell phone. The reason for that was he was reassuring him at this time of russian aggression and incursion that america would stand with the people of georgia. I remember a day it was a critical juncture in the campaign, i was on the road with senator mccain, joe lieberman, lindsey graham, he started a political rally in a Battle Ground state by saying today we are all georgians. You were furious. Not that americans are dumb, but in the middle of a president ial campaign, theyre not thinking of who he is and theyre not thinking about the country of georgia. I wonder what you think about the fact that that was the man that the Republican Party nominated in 2008, and in 2016 the gop platform was changed to articulate precisely, in full view, in public, Vladimir Putins desired policy visavis ukraine. The american president would be hostile to autocrats. The american president would celebrate freedom and liberty and the concept of the dignity of the freedom of the human being. This president has no interest in it. What weve seen is Vladimir Putin act with impunity, with very little push back. Hes seeing what he can get away with. Hes getting away with a lot. And i think the danger that lies ahead, what happens if Vladimir Putin instigates an article 5 nato crisis, for example, in one of the baltic republics . What will the response be . Is it possible that putin could break nato over the next couple of years . We dont know the answer to any of it, but we have seen an american president who is, for whatever reason it is, absolutely timid for the First Time Since harry truman confronted the rise of the cold war, for the first time an american president will not confront an adversary, and specifically the leader of russia. It is bizarre. Jill, let me let you jump in and pick up this thread based on the breaking news. Just before we came on the air, we reported that bob mueller and his investigators detained a trump ally at the airport, at the logan airport. His name is ted malloch. He said he was told it was a felony to lie to the fbi. He would gladly cooperate with them. The agents produced a document allowing him to search his cell phone. I guess it was some sort of Search Warrant. Chuck will correct me if im wrong. And malloch said the questions got more detailed about my involvement with the Trump Campaign which was informal and unpaid. Whom i communicated with, whom i knew and how well. They had a long list of names. He said they asked him about former Trump Campaign advisor roger stone, author Jerome Coursy and wikileaks. He said he met stone a total of three times and always with
groups of people. He was asked if he visited the Ecuadorian Embassy in london where Julian Assange has been and he said no. How does this land, not the substance, everyone on the campaign is being pressed about ties to russia and potential conspiracy to commit crimes around the collusion investigation. But just the tactics. I remember hearing from white house sources that after the noknock warrant was issued for Paul Manaforts home, after all the computers were seized, that people were more on edge. Do these stories land with a thud in the west wing . At this point its less of a thud than youve got a boxer who has been punched and punched and punched again and its one more hit coming at them. This lands, this is the first time im hearing about this report. This lands as the president , as you know, is in maralago right now. He just got back from the golf course. The west wing is not particularly full today. People have chosen to take the day off or work from home right now. Whats really interesting about this one is you see and weve heard this a little bit especially when sam nunberg was
on your air after he wound up being interviewed by muellers team. They seem to be really highlighting roger stone and his potential interaction with Julian Assange and seeing that as a potential, you know, Point Of Interest here clearly by these investigators. But every time the white house thinks that it moves on, every time they try to move to a policy issue, they try to break any new ground, its again, russia, russia, russia. They just cant escape it. Let me give you the last word, chuck rosenberg, in terms of helping us understand what this tells us about bob muellers investigation and their interest in contacts with wikileaks. Sure. First, i think thats right. They continue to poke and probe and prod at all connections russia. You are right, by the way, nicolle, they probably used the Search Warrant although at the border of federal Law Enforcement has a lot more leeway and may not need it. Good prosecutors would have gotten one anyway to avoid litigating the issue. Not all witnesses are crucial. This gentleman, i believe, is a british citizen so they have
jurisdiction over him while hes in the United States. Why not hand him a Grand Jury Subpoena while hes here and find out what he knows. Thats what they did. Why not indeed. Courtney kube, congratulations on your unbelievable reporting. It kept me up last night. I read it right before i went to bed. Congrats. Jill colvin, thank you for your extraordinary reporting every day from that place. Cant be easy. When we come back, fox news is having a bad week over Laura Ingraham losing supporters. A former Fox News Contributor writes today he should have left sooner and claims he was blocked on discussing how the russians might have ensnared our president. Also ahead, the Washington Post pulls back the curtain on one of the most important white house offices, in details how the effort to hire the very best people may have been doomed before the president even took office. And his friends and family mourn the death of Stephon Clark an unarmed black man fatally shot by sacramento police. Well talk to our friend rev al sharpton about the message he delivered at the funeral and his
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