Transcripts For MSNBCW Dateline 20240703

There appeared to be a body hanging from a banister. From first look it would appear as though it was a suicide. But then they looked closer. It appeared that there was a struggle. My gut was telling me theres something wrong here. Did someone want michele dead . Was someone else willing to help . At that point were shellshocked. A bond forged in blood. Did you cry . We called it the lie and cry conversation. Betrayed by blood. What are you hoping for . Some conversation between the two of them about the death. We have an Investigator Look at the Video Surveillance and he goes, i dont like what im seeing. Youre theorizing the darkest scenario . Yes, we are. Evil. Hello and welcome to dateline. Michele and Lloyd Neurauter were High School Sweethearts who tied the knot two years later, then had three daughters. Their marriage didnt last, but michele and lloyd remained devoted to their girls. Then michele was found dead in her home. At first Police Suspected suicide. But soon the case took a chilling turn. At the heart of this mystery was a betrayal too twisted to be true. Except that it is. Heres Dennis Murphy with the ultimatum. The long road to prima ballerina. The dreams of thunderous bravos. The cascade of roses, begins for the youngest of dancers in a Ballet School of tutued 10yearolds. Stretching, stressing. Its very disciplined. An athletic discipline of concentration and body control. Learning poise under pressure. It took a lot. Especially when we were young. To stick with it. But it was worth it. A Ballet Academy in Upstate New York was where amina raj got to know her friend Karrie Neurauter. I met karrie when she was 8. She was very sweet, very bubbly personality. Both of them were girly girls, but wanted to grow up to be like their dads. Our dads were both engineers. So we were both going to become engineers. And be professional ballerinas on the side. And everyone could see that karrie was very close to her dad, Lloyd Neurauter. Every saturday hed not only drive his daughter to class in corning, new york. Hed stay to help out. He was the only father there that was bringing the kids in the morning at that time. Menas mom, cynthia, would see him on those saturdays but rarely his wife. Instead of doing the childrens hair at home, he would always sort of bring them there and brush their hair out and put these buns together. With some skill and art . Yes. And he definitely enjoyed the admiration of the other mothers around him. As their daughters rehearsed for the annual nutcracker, cynthia and another friend, rose coluccio, became friendly with lloyd. Lloyd was, i would say eccentric. Always the center of attention. Of course we eventually asked about his wife, and he said that saturday was really her day off. Lloyds wife, michele, had a full plate of her own. She had a masters degree in literature but chose to be a fulltime mom. Homeschooling their kids and taking an active role in charity work. Here she is making Thanksgiving Dinner for the needy at their local church. It would be really odd to have thanksgiving at home, just us, and not be here. Thanksgiving is celebrating with the community, giving back. Michele had met lloyd in high school. Her mom jeannie remembers a teenage boy who was smitten from the first date. I think she thought he was intelligent and she could have intelligent conversations with him. So maybe a peg above the other kids in the schoolyard or her circle . Yes. The High School Sweethearts married when michele was just 20. Theyd later settle into a farmhouse in Upstate New York and have three girls. Karrie, the middle child. Micheles younger sister, also named karrie, admired her so much. Tell me about your sister as a mom. She always wanted the best for her girls. She was always very supportive because of course, when i had children i asked her all my questions and looked up to her. I always looked up to her. Though they lived close apart, micheles sister and her husband were close with the nieces. The oldest one really bonded with kevin, and karrie and i very much bonded. But as with so many people, the neurauter family ran into lean times, diminished prospects during the great recession. Lloyd moved out of state to find work as an engineer. What happened is lloyd, it was a tough time in corning, new york, and he took a job in new jersey. Michele stayed behind with the girls out in the country in corning. But the separation put a strain on the marriage, and in time michele and lloyd divorced. She was always positive and going to make the most of everything, and then one day Out Of The Blue she called me and said were divorced. Like okay. Right, it was very random. After the divorce, michele sold the farm and the kids split up. The oldest went to live with her dad in new jersey, while karrie and the youngest daughter stayed in corning with mom in a new house. But the divorce was hard on everyone. Karrie and her mom sometimes butted heads. The arguments could get heated. The issue was living with her mother, finishing high school, but it got more and more strained as the years as she approached her senior year. By late august 2017, karrie, the onetime ballerina, had left home and was a sophomore at r. I. T. In rochester. Her younger sister still lived with her mom. It seemed like a typical monday afternoon when a Family Friend came by the house to pick up the youngest for swim practice. But something looked very wrong. He called 911. Shes motionless. And im concerned. The friend said he glimpsed a shadowy female figure on the stairway. Shes just standing there not moving . Kind of hard to tell. Dark. Something very dark had happened in that house. And when the curtain was pulled back, it would reveal a monstrous story. Like something out of a greek tragedy. With an ending no one could fathom. This is absolutely ghoulish. Yeah. Coming up there appeared to be a body hanging inside the door about 15 to 20 feet, hanging from a banister. This is as they say, a house thats known to Law Enforcement . Yes. And somebody was missing. No 14yearold was discovered. So where is this child . That was one of the first concerns. When dateline continues. Ar depression feel darkest before dawn. With caplyta, theres a chance to let in the lyte™. Caplyta is proven to deliver significant relief across bipolar depression. Unlike some medicines that only treat bipolar i, caplyta treats both bipolar i and ii depression. And in clinical trials, Movement Disorders and weight gain were not common. Call your doctor about sudden mood changes, behaviors, or suicidal thoughts. Antidepressants may increase these risks in young adults. Elderly dementia patients have increased risk of death or stroke. Report fever, confusion, stiff or uncontrollable muscle movements which may be life threatening or permanent. These arent all the serious side effects. Caplyta can help you let in the lyte™. Ask your doctor about caplyta find savings and support at caplyta. Com. August 28th, 2017. Police officers responded to the home of divorced mom Michele Neurauter. A friend of hers had called 911 to report a disturbing sight. There appeared to be a body hanging inside the door about 15 to 20 feet, hanging from a banister. Corning police chief Jeff Spalding says his officers got in and found the body. A woman with a rope tied around her neck. It was michele. Apparently a suicide . From first look, yes, it would appear as though it was a suicide. No reason to think not . No. Officers searched the home. They found no suicide note. And the house was empty. Daughter karrie was away at college, but the youngest, who lived there with michele, was nowhere to be found. No 14yearold was discovered. So where is this child . That was one of the first concerns. It turned out the youngest was actually with Karrie At School In Rochester 100 miles away. Police learned that when karrie called them herself after a friend gave her the shocking news. My mom hung herself. We are looking into it. Can you give me any insight into what might have happened . I dont know. I decided to go home. Karrie told police she had stopped by the house that night. When i got there, they were freaking out. In karries words they had a fight. Her mom went yelling and screaming. Karrie told investigators she stormed out of the house, taking her teenage sister with her. Not all that unusual. Police learned that raised voices in that household were sadly routine. A bad divorce with kids caught in the middle. This is, as they say, a house thats known to Law Enforcement . Yes. There have over the years, been 911 calls to the location . Probably in the course of two or three years a dozen, a little more than a dozen calls. So chief, im thinking even with this brief history you have, fragmentary history of trouble inside the house, mother, daughter, somethings going on, it does maybe give you an explanation of why shes a death by suicide. Exactly. Investigators also got in touch with micheles exhusband lloyd, who lived in new jersey. He was rushing to Upstate New York to be with his daughters. The last time i spoke with her i couldnt even say. Lloyd told a detective by phone he wasnt completely surprised to hear the news. He said that despite her cheery demeanor, michele had actually contemplated suicide in the past. From before we were married she made Suicide Plans with high school friends, and that was something that alarmed me way back then. Police continued to process the scene. While micheles body was taken to the Medical Examiner for autopsy. What is she finding . The words again consistent with suicide are used. In a round of phone calls micheles sister out in california got the news about the suicide. When you first heard, that did it make sense in any kind of way to you, that maybe shed gotten in a bad place and i mean, i knew that shed been fighting with the girls. I really thought like maybe she had a bad moment. Then she had to relay the awful news to their mom. She said michele died. And i said, no, she didnt. I said no, she didnt. Thats a lie. Dont say that. I said dont say that. The friends back in corning could hardly take it in. Michele gone. And by her own hand. My mom called me. She didnt want me to see it online or on social media before i heard it from her. And you went to see her . I did. I went home. It was so shocking. As Funeral Arrangements began, micheles friends were haunted by a request she made just months before her death. She said, well, promise me that if anything ever happens to me that youll look out for my daughters. And then i reassured her, naively perhaps, that she was going to live a long life. But she was pretty persistent. So, i said okay. And we left it like that. She got me with that story. Sorry, she got me with that story. But even in their grief there was confusion and doubt. The friends thought the michele they saw in her final days was anything but suicidal. What were her plans . Was she forwardlooking . Constantly. We were always working on what was next. That wasnt where she was in her life . Id say shes a fighter. That woman was a fighter. On saturday morning when the rest of us would be lounging around in her sweatpants shed say its a good day, were going to get up, were going to get dressed and were going to make the best of it. Even if michele were suicidal, they just could not see their friend hanging herself like that in a way that her daughters could find her. I started googling means that females use for suicide, and i think it was what i could find was around 9 of females will actually hang themselves. The most popular option by far is pills. But micheles mood and statistics aside, they kept coming back that lack of a suicide note. Michele had a masters in english as well as an mba. She was a prolific writer. Michele would have written a note of explanation. So once there was no note i think right. We just said somethings wrong. Little did they know exactly how wrong this would all turn out to be. Coming up maybe it wasnt suicide. Apparent suicide. Did that make any sense to you . No. My gut was telling me theres something wrong here. Maybe it was murder. The weight it went around her chin did not seem consistent with a hanging. On her face it looks like scratch marks, like maybe shes pulling at whatever as round her neck, trying to get it off. You can see where her bed was pushed out of place. It appeared that there was a struggle. When dateline continues. Re asthma thats not or sudden breathing problems. Dupixent can cause allergic reactions that can be severe. Get help right away if you have rash, chest pain, worsening shortness of breath, tingling or numbness in your limbs. Tell your doctor about new or worsening joint aches and pain, or a parasitic infection. Dont change or stop asthma medicines, including steroids, without talking to your doctor. Ask your specialist about dupixent. I need it cool at night. Includyou trying to Icehout Talme Out of the bed . R. Baby, only on game nights. You know you are retired right . Am i . Ya the queen sleep number c2 smart bed is now only 999. Plus free Home Delivery when you add an adjustable base. Police were investigating shop now only at sleep number. The Hanging Death of michele as a possible suicide. But they still needed to know more about her final weeks and days. Hi, how are you . Good. Just cautious about how i approach a car. I dont Want To Startle anybody. The deceaseds exhusband lloyd, resettled in new jersey, had rushed to Upstate New York after micheles body was found. Now sitting in a police car he seemed eager to talk. How longs michele lived at the residence over on deloitte . Do you know . Its about five years. Okay. She bought that after we divorced. He told them about his early relationship with michele. We went away to school together. We did everything together. So i never thought like that, like oh, under some circumstance ill just walk away. When did you guys divorce . We divorced in august 2012. He explained that while the divorce had been finalized years earlier, their custody issues were far from settled. They were still fighting over their youngest daughter. She wanted to live with me. Her mom threw a tantrum. Lloyd suggested his exwife was unstable. An emotional wreck. Michele was screaming and furious. I know of that from past behaviors that there was an occasion where michele was having a tantrum that she would open the door and scream things down the stairs and then slam her bedroom door. And she did that so many times she actually broke the door frame from doing that. That she was just completely out of control. But lloyd admitted his information was secondhand. Hed heard the stories from his children. I dont even know if she was seeing anybody or who else she was doing things with. She really pushed me out of her life. Lloyd spoke with police for over an hour. As the interview ended, he had a question. When could the kids retrieve their stuff . In case i could pass on word there any idea when the kids could get into the house to well look into that too. If it were a simple suicide, the investigation wouldnt take long. But new york state investigator eric heard, who was among the first on the scene, thought not so fast. My gut was telling me theres something wrong here. It wasnt just cop intuition. There was physical evidence in his experience inconsistent with a suicide. Starting with a position of the thin nylon rope on micheles body. The way that it went around her chin did not seem consistent with a hanging. He noticed wounds on micheles head, too. On her face it looks like scratch marks, like maybe shes pulling at whatever is around her neck, trying to get it off. And then there was micheles friend rose. She rushed up to the scene with something urgent to say. Apparent suicide. Did that make any sense to you . No. She had told me, shes like i know her friends, she would never do this to herself. We were just with her the other night. We were having a great time. She wouldnt do this. Its not exactly evidence, but its a piece. Its not evidence at that point. And when police formally interviewed the friends she got a different picture of michele and their divorce. They said lloyd was the crazy one. Relentlessly badgering his exwife with dragged out custody fights. I was at their house and i think lloyd had just served another petition for Child Custody of the younger child. And she was frustrated. Her life was looking very positive and then this came up again. Objective appraisal or friends taking sides . Either way, they insisted michele wasnt a frazzled, outofcontrol single mom. She was making the best of a bad situation. And dealing with an ex whod demeaned her for years. Basically, everything she did was criticized. He made her feel she was really ugly. He made her feel that she couldnt make any right decisions. She was a lousy mother. That she couldnt do anything right. So, homicide versus suicide. On the one hand, a nasty divorce may have given Michele Plenty of reasons to be depressed and want a way out. But it was a police photo of micheles bedroom that caused investigator heard to think otherwise. You can see where her bed was pushed out of place. He spent hours poring over the pictures. Looking at the wall and kind of zooming in, you can see things that maybe not visible to they didnt jump out at first. They didnt jump out at first, but it looks like we see something, it looks like blood on the wall. So that was concerning. Blood on the wall and a bed out of place. To heard it pointed to only one scenario. It appeared that there was a struggle. He believed michele had been attacked, the suicide scene staged. At the house there was no sign of forced entry. Nothing taken. And investigators theorized that a random intruder wouldnt bother arranging such an elaborate scene. An unknown intruder, the onearmed man doesnt figure in here either, right . No, we never thought that. No, they thought. Someone close to michele had to be responsible. So what do we do now is the question, right . Yes. It was time to go looking for suspects. Investigators start with the obvious suspect, micheles exhusband lloyd. And he had an alibi. Coming up he said hed been to rochester to help his daughter move in to college. Spent the night in a hotel. Stayed in the hotel all night long. I think i have every receipt for the last seven days. Michele liked to save things, too. Could the mystery be solved from Beyond The Grave . I started finding Court Documents, and i started finding screenshots of texts. My daughter documented everything. What was the narrative picture that had come together for you of what had happened in her life . That she was just constantly abused, emotionally abused. When dateline continues. horn honks im the team mascot, and boy, am i running late. But ive got lead in my foot and spirit in my fingers. Woo ha ha what a hit and if you have cut rate Car Insurance the cost to cover that, might tank your season. So, get allstate and be better protected from mayhem. Like me. laughing woo rsv is in for a surprise. Meet arexvy. the first fdaapproved rsv vaccine. Arexvy is used to prevent lower Respiratory Disease from rsv in people 60 years and older. Rsv can severely affect the lungs and lower airways. Arexvy is proven to be over 82 effective in preventing lower Respiratory Disease from rsv and over 94 effective in those with these health conditions. arexvy does not protect everyone and is not for those with severe allergic reactions to its ingredients. Those with weakened Immune Systems may have a lower response to the vaccine. The most common side effects are injection site pain, fatigue, muscle pain, headache, and joint pain. Rsv can be serious. Talk to your doctor or pharmacist about arexvy today. Rsv . Make it arexvy. Heres why you should switch fro talk to your doctor or pharmacist about arexvy today. To duckduckgo on all your Devie Duckduckgo comes with a builtin search eg but it doesnt spy on your seac and our browser blocks creepy ads that follow you around fro and other companies. Our top stories after making an and its free. Download duckduk explosive jump from a category one to category five, hurricane in a span of 12 hours, Hurricane Lee has now dropped down to a category four hurricane in the atlantic ocean. That storm is tracking slowly past puerto rico, but does not expected to make landfall this weekend. Former white house Chief Of Staff mark meadows appealed a judges ruling denying his request to move his troubled federal court. Meadows was charged along with 18 others, including former president on, trump for interfering in georgias 2020 election. For now, back to dateline. For now, back to dateline. Welcome back to dateline. Im Andrea Canning. What happened to Michele Neurauter . A sharpeyed detective spotted signs of a struggle in micheles bedroom. Now investigators suspect that her death had been staged to look like a suicide. They were eager to have another chat with micheles exhusband, lloyd. Meanwhile, a distraught Family Member was about to gets a startling view into micheles final years. Here again is Dennis Murphy with the ultimatum. Michele neurauters mother, jeannie, was still dealing with the loss of her elder child. And atop that grief was a longstanding sorrow. Estrangement. Michele had abruptly stopped talking to her mom ten years before. I missed her. I loved her. I didnt know what was going on. Because wed never had a fight. If wed had a fight and hung up on each other, you know, you get over it. But we did not have that fight. Jeannie didnt know exactly what had gone on in michele and lloyds marriage, but she knew shed never liked him. Okay, she can do better than this. Why is she what does she see in him . Looking back, what makes you say that, jeannie . He was arrogant from the beginning. He was always arrogant. He was full of himself. Micheles sister agreed. He wanted to be like oh, im going to put you in your place. Did you talk to her about how things were . With her and lloyd. No. Or do you just seal that away . I knew is that a nogo topic . Thats a nogo topic. Micheles family says lloyds My Way Or The Highway attitude extended to the way he disciplined the children. The doting ballet dad wanted his girls to be a little too on point. He kind of raised his kids with a Military Bearing . Yes. I mean, they had to he would snap his fingers and theyd line up and they would stand there like little soldiers. He would make them kneel with their nose to the wall, hands behind their heads, like they were being executed. Like this is im sorry . For a minor Household Infraction . Like for nothing sometimes. Hed just be mad at them. After micheles Death Jeannie flew out to the east coast to be with her granddaughters. Thats when she finally learned just how bad things had become for michele. It was all there in her daughters journals and boxes of court papers. I started finding Court Documents and i started finding screenshots of texts. My daughter documented everything. What was the narrative picture that had come together for you of what had happened in her life . That she was just constantly abused, emotionally abused. By her husband, lloyd . Mmhmm. Yes. And you believed that he ganged up the children against her . Mmhmm. Mmhmm. Yes. Micheles mother read how the unhappy marriage turned into an unhappy divorce. He was taking her to court over and over and over. The acrimony between lloyd and michele had been well known to micheles friends for years. Theyd seen it up close. If her death was a murder, the history of that marriage and divorce told them exactly what happened. When asked at the scene what i thought, my answer was i think he did it. The husband . Yes. Absolutely. No problems. The very same lloyd who had calmly and clearly volunteered so much information to investigators. She was just completely out of control. Demeanor. What are you hearing in that . He was very cooperative. Would you like me to move up a little . No, youre fine. Are you sure . Police had reason to believe michele died sometime after midnight saturday going into sunday. So the question, where was lloyd . Tell me the way you came up at first. To go to rochester. He told police hed driven up from new jersey to rochester to help karrie move into her college apartment. She couldnt fit everything into the car. So i had totes back in princeton that i had to bring. So, when i arrived on saturday, i went to the apartment and i unloaded her car. Her stuff. Karries apartment . Yeah, karries apartment. And then he said he spent the night in a nearby hotel. From 11 00 to 7 00 youre in the hotel . Yes. By yourself . Yes. And he said hed been to rochester to help his daughter move into college, spent the night in the hotel, stayed in the hotel all night long. Lloyd said he drove home the next day and only returned to the corning area after micheles body had been found. He could account for all of his movements. I think i have every receipt for the last seven days. Now they needed to put lloyds timeline under a microscope. Police pulled his Phone Records, and guess what. His cell never left the hotel that night. So far so good. And the story told by the phone meant he couldnt be an hour and a half south in corning as michele was about to die. So police had to consider others in micheles inner circle. And that included the last known person to have seen michele alive. It was someone whod admitted in a phone call with police to fighting with michele that very night. Her middle daughter, karrie. When i got there, we were freaking out. She was yelling and then she got quiet. So i waited for her to come out and talk to me. I know youre upset. But if you can take a breath for me so that i can understand what youre saying a little better. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Im sorry. Sure, karrie sounded distraught. But the officer who first took down her account of that night didnt like what he was hearing. He said right away, somethings not right. What was he referring to . Karrie specifically was not telling the truth about what happened that night. Coming up you can see that shes at the house for about two hours. A lot longer than we anticipated her to be there. What was karrie hiding . The younger sister says, i get woken, it sounds like somebodys in the house attacking my mom. Then her sister comes in the house, tells her, weve got to leave, moms upset, shes really mad, weve got to go back to rochester, youre coming with me. When dateline continues. You want whats best for them. Ohh, ohh, ohh so ask your vet about new nexgard plus. Its oneanddone monthly protection from fleas and ticks, plus heartworm disease, roundworms, and hookworms. All in a delicious, beefflavored, soft chew. Use with caution in dogs with a history of seizures or neurologic disorders. From the maker of 1 vetrecommended heartgard plus. Nexgard plus the one you want for oneanddone protection. Thats some bad luck brian. And i think im late on my Car Insurance. Good thing the general gives you a break when you need it. Yeah, with flexible Payment Options to keep you covered. So today is your lucky. Day [crash] so today is your lucky. Day for a great low rate, go with the general. Heres a truism. Cops dont like to be lied to. Especially cops investigating an unsolved death like that of the corning mom, Michele Neurauter. Especially if theyre suspicious that the victims 19yearold daughter is the one doing the lying. In a statement to investigators karrie, the middle child, admitted she had arrived at her mothers house just shortly before her death. She had initially told us that she got there and had a fight with her mom and she left. So, she led us to believe this was a 15 or 20minute stay at her moms house. The thing was, her cell Phone Records said otherwise. You can see that shes at the house for about two hours. A lot longer than we anticipated her to be there. So, was karrie hiding something about what happened after that argument . Those who knew her best never considered karrie to be anything but honest. Family friend rose was one of the first people to speak with karrie after michele was found. We just sat on the phone together for about a half hour and just cried. And mina said there was no way her smart and kindhearted friend would have played any kind of role in a murder. I could never picture her being violent. But police had a different take. They remembered there being turmoil in micheles house. All those calls to police years earlier. Had that shouting finally boiled over, ending in murder . And there was an ear witness of sorts. Karries kid sister, the 14yearold, had been sleeping downstairs. She told a detective she remembers hearing screams. The younger sister says, i get woken, it sounds like somebodys in the house attack my mom. She used that word . Yes, she did. Then her sister tells her, weve got to leave, moms upset, shes really mad, weve got to go back to rochester, youre coming with me. Karries story was way out of whack. As hard as it was to wrap their heads around it, the detectives were coming to believe that the College Student daughter may have murdered her own mother. Unthinkable. This is her mother. I just keep coming back, this is her mother. The mother, her own mother. That to me was the most chilling part of this whole thing. But if it were true, the young woman was too petite they thought to have pulled it off alone. Theres no way that karrie could have physically carried out the act. If it was to be homicide, she would have needed some help. But from whom . They naturally looked to those closest to karrie. And who was closer than her dad, lloyd . Going all the way back to those Ballet School days. Cops also knew that lloyd had been in the area that weekend Helping Karrie move into her college apartment. Any more detail you could tell us about things, obviously its helpful to us. But what about his apparently ironclad alibi backed up by his cell Phone Records . That he never left his hotel that night. From 11 00 to 7 00 youre in the hotel . Yes. All right. Investigator heard sent a colleague to spool through the hotels security cam footage. He goes, i dont like what im seeing. It looks like the dad and karrie left together about 10 00 that night. What was that . The dad and the daughter together, leaving . And when they fast forwarded the Hotel Security video, there was Lloyd Neurauter seen again walking through the parking lot at 6 30 a. M. More than eight hours later. Are you theorizing the darkest scenario, that dad and daughter are in on this thing together . Yes, we are. Thats a monstrous theory. Yes, it is. The authorities held their cards close to their vest. None of their suspicions leaked out. Steuben County District attorney brooks baker was consulted as investigators got Search Warrants so they could tap father and daughters cell phones. Where are you now, sweetie . Im still back at the dennys rest stop. What are you hoping for . What were hoping for is some conversation between the two of them about the death, about money. Hi. Hi, sweetie. Im sorry i didnt get your call right away. And . We didnt get much. Investigators decided to ratchet up the pressure. Whats called in cop talk, tickling the wire. Is this Karrie Neurauter . Yes, this is she. We have an investigator from corning pd call karrie saying i want to talk to you. And the hope is that that will get a conversation going between lloyd and his daughter. I didnt know if she had time to meet up with mep. I know its break time and i didnt know what your plans were. Had will we be able to talk on monday . Okay. With her wire tickled would karrie take the bait and call her father with the latest . She did exactly that. Hi, sweetie. Hey. I just got off the phone with officer whatever from the Corning Police department. He called and hes like oh, id just like to meet face to face as well. You know, id like you to not do that if you can avoid it. Tell him im sorry, ive got a Counseling Appointment Back in new jersey tonight, ive got to get to my counseling appointment. Tell him this has been really hard on me. Yeah. Could you cry . I might. We call it the lie and cry conversation, because its when all of our hackles kind of went up. Hes telling his daughter to lie. Hes telling his daughter to lie to the investigator and by the way, if that doesnt work can you cry . Cry and say, im sorry, i have to go. God, it would be nice if it was just over. That would be a dream. Well, thats really all ive got to suggest right now. By now, investigators had a Working Theory of the crime. That it was probably not the dad helping the daughter but the reverse. That dad, they theorized, was the mastermind. But authorities lacked hard proof of anything. They needed more. Yeah. After two more months of tapping the phones they decided showtime had arrived. They would simultaneously appear unannounced to interview both karrie and lloyd in separate locations and confront the two directly. In late january 2018, like commandos synchronooidsing their watches they swooped down. Nice to meet you. In new jersey, two fbi agents appeared at lloyds workplace. He agreed to meet with them in a conference room. The agents gave him an update on the case. The Medical Examiner determined it to be a homicide, not a suicide. My god. And in conjunction with that, i want to ask you, did karrie have something to do with her death . No. I just dont think karrie has it in her to kill another person. Can you think of something, whether it was things get out of hand. She gets in a fight. Its a selfdefense thing . I mean, can you see that happening with karrie . Its hard to imagine. But can i picture it . I can. And instead of jumping and saying no, this is my daughter, she wouldnt do Something Like that. But can i picture it . Its the longest pause in the entire time he talked. I can. So hes not papa lion protecting his cubbies here . No. Hes sort of how can i toss her under the bus kind of thing. Lloyd had to realize the walls were closing in. Still the interview ended with handshakes. Well, we appreciate you sitting down with us and interrupting your day. Well, my goal is to help. The agents allowed lloyd to leave after his very bad day at the office. Then they tailed him and listened in as he phoned his daughter. How are you . Not great. Im not great either. 250 miles away in syracuse, new york, Daughter Karrie had also been confronted by police. And she, too, had had a very bad day. What did she tell her inqu inquisitors . Coming up, would this one be real . There he is out on ledge. Five stories down on the concrete, hes threatening to kill himself. Hes got his phone and he wants to talk to his daughter. When dateline continues. When moderate to Severe Ulcerative Colitis takes you off course. Put it in check with rinvoq, a oncedaily pill. When i wanted to see results fast, rinvoq delivered rapid Symptom Relief and helped Leave Bathroom urgency behind. Check. When uc tried to slow me down. I got lasting, steroidfree remission with rinvoq. Check. And when uc caused Damage Rinvoq came through by visibly repairing my colon lining. Check. Rapid Symptom Relief. Lasting steroidfree remission. And the chance to visibly repair the colon lining. Check, check, and check. Rinvoq can lower your ability to fight infections, including tb. Serious infections and blood clots, some fatal; cancers, including lymphoma and skin cancer; death, heart attack, stroke, and tears in the stomach or intestines occurred. People 50 and older with at least 1 Heart Disease risk factor have higher risks. Dont take if allergic to rinvoq as serious reactions can occur. Tell your doctor if you are or may become pregnant. Put uc in check and keep it there with rinvoq. Ask your gastroenterologist about rinvoq and learn how abbvie can help you save. Its the most wonderful time of the year nondrowsy claritin knocks out symptoms from over 200 allergens. Without knocking you out. Feel the clarity and make today the most wonderful time of the year. Live claritin clear. Heres why you should switch fro of the year. To duckduckgo on all your Devie Duckduckgo comes with a builtn engine like google, but its pi and doesnt spy on your searchs and duckduckgo lets you browse like chrome, but it blocks cooi and creepy ads that follow youa from google and other companie. And theres no catch. Its fre. We make money from ads, but they dont follow you aroud join the millions of people taking back their privacy by downloading duckduckgo on all your devices today. Karrie neurauter, who had jDennis Murphy voiceover takiKarrie Neurauter,vacy always been on script about the night her mother died, said theyd had a fight, shed left, end of story. But now she sat in a room with new york state investigators determined to get the truth. Can you tell us what you observed, what you remember . Karrie quickly caved and admitted shed lied. Her dad had been there with her. Who went in the house first . My dad went in the house well, we went in the house at the same time. Okay. No, thats a lie. Im sorry. I went in. And there was more. My dad went upstairs in my moms room. And she was like, what are you doing . Why are you here . So she was yelling. And she was like, why . Why . Then it started to tumble out, the nightmare story. She told investigators her dad, drowning in alimony and Child Support payments, had given her an ultimatum, him or her mom. Something along the lines of without money, he cant pay rent, he cant pay for stuff. So, basically he was going to kill himself. Or there was this way to make it so he wouldnt kill himself, which was killing my mom. Why at the crossroads did she decide to help . She says she saw no other alternative. When did you guys discuss it was supposed to look like a suicide . The first time he told me about this. Then she told investigators what her father did. He said to me be quiet, and then put the rope around her neck and hanged her. Karries job was to disable any Security Devices and to distract her younger sister, asleep downstairs. Totally unaware of what was going on. She woke up. So i had to take her out. I was freaking out. I didnt know what was going on. Then i put her in my car. Now, we had the framework of the story together now. I mean, what a bombshell. In the room and the ears that are listening at this point. At that point were shellshocked. At last the authorities had enough to arrest lloyd. Hed left work, seemingly unnerved by his chat with the fbi. And new Jersey State Police had tailed him as he drove to the top of a fivestory parking garage, got out of his car, and sat on a ledge. Apparently, suicide seemed a better option than prison. And there he is out on the ledge. On the ledge . Five stories down on the concrete, threatening to kill himself. Hes going to be a jumper. Hes going to jump. Hes got his phone and he wants to talk to his daughter. After a 90minute negotiation, a Homicide Detective tackled lloyd and put him under arrest. Back in new york, authorities read his Daughter Karrie her rights, too. Murder charges for both. Micheles mom across the country was in disbelief. I said not karrie, not karrie. Please not karrie. The friends in corning couldnt absorb it either. Him of course. But her, too . The little ballerina theyd watched grow up. Now charged with murder. Thats the unbelievable part. We love this child. As time has passed, micheles friends are starting to learn of a familys brainwashing. Of a controlling father who poisoned his daughtersminds with the drip drip of a phony story that went on for years. That their mother was no good. Crazy. That theyd all be better off with her out of the picture. A fathers manipulation that went all the way back to ballet class days and probably earlier. What flashed back to me was that time i saw a 7yearold karrie standing front and center, shaking, and i personally believe it was this accumulation of control. I felt that she had been brainwashed. And looking back, micheles mom is now certain it was lloyd who was behind the unexplained rift with her daughter. I think that hed already started alienating her, manipulating her mind. Putting a false narrative in her head about who she was and who her people were . I have often referred to him as jim jones. Its almost Cult Leaderesque what he has done to karrie and her sisters. It appeared that father and daughter would be tried together. Both entered pleas of not guilty. But as the case moved forward, karrie alone in her cell, removed from her father, it was as though the spell was broken. Karrie flipped and decided to testify against her father. At what point did your dad first approach with you this plan . Now she gave a second, even more detailed confession, and prepared to be the star witness at her fathers murder trial. And a new wrenching detail. She had helped move her mothers dead body. We dragged her around the corner and he tied the rope to the one prong of the banister and lifted her up, and we both threw her over the side. Im sorry. Thats okay. But her dads trial never happened. Lab results came back showing the exhusbands dna was all over micheles bed clothes in that house he claimed never to have been inside. In october of 2018, Lloyd Neurauter pleaded guilty to murder one. I was stunned. He gave it up. He told us exactly what happened. Lloyd gave a full statement. Owning up to being the Master Manipulator that friends and family said theyd witnessed all along. He described the process by which he would abuse michele in front of his girls. Belittle her. Convince them she was insane, that she was dangerous. Hes a narcissist. The world revolves around him. His password to all of his accounts was all my girls love me. Youre kidding. No. Thats how he operated. Ultimately, that power led karrie to say yes because you know, dad says its so. If dad says its so, it must be so. Lloyd was sentenced to life without parole. Any last words, lloyd . District attorney Baker Allowed Karrie to plead to a lesser charge of manslaughter. She was sentenced to one to three years. The d. A. Sees the daughter as a victim, too. You want to be sympathetic, because shes a sympathetic character. She deserves sympathy for where she was. But shes still guilty of murder. And thats the and justice has to happen. And friend cynthia cant shake that emotional conversation she had with michele just before she died, the one where she promised to take care of her daughters. If anything happens to me yeah. That came back very strong for me. Cynthia kept that promise, Visiting Karrie in jail and trying to help a bewildered young woman find her way through this. Shes very remorseful. She misses her mother very much. And she has said that her mother would know what to do right now. She would know how to help me. Still grieving over the death of her daughter, micheles mom is now facing another kind of sorrow. Coming to terms with this unthinkable crime. And the granddaughter who said yes to a fathers deadly ultimatum. She is a human being. Shes still a child. She might be considered an adult. But i hear the child. And yet she killed your daughter. And she killed my daughter. Shes a victim. I struggle with this. I struggle. I asked michele. I said michele, what do you want me to do . What do i do with this child of yours . And i honestly believe that my daughter would want her to be accepting responsibility for what she did. And she is. I dont know if i forgive her. But i understand her. Thats all for this edition of dateline. Im Andrea Canning, thank you for watching. Hing hello, im Andrea Canning and this is dateline. He was my super man. He was always my protector. This is the man that im supposed to marry. This was just not possible. He is found him on the floor, the fiance that was the love of her life. I zeroed in on him and he was just laying there. It is a stone cold assassination. Nick, the marine, a tough vet tu t