started. ♪ ♪ ♪ tonight, new developments on the israel-hamas war, which is now in its 16-day. a new aid convoy of 14 trucks entered the gaza strip through the rafah border crossing with egypt today. according to the united nations, that is. it is the second batch of relief to enter gaza this weekend. 20 trucks of medicine, fo, water, came through the region yesterday. this only offers, course, a small sliver of relief to the needed of more than 2 million people in the gaza strip according to palestinian civil society groups before the october 7th attack, about 500 trucks were entering gaza daily. president biden spoke of prime minister benjamin netanyahu earlier today, affirming that there will be a continued flow of assistance into the region. the war is already spreading outside of gaza. israel says it has launched an aerial strike today on an underground compound at a mosque in the occupiedest bank, containing the miliry described as a, quote, terror cell. palestinian officials report, at least two people were killed. three others injured. earlier today, the pentagon said that the u.s. is increasing its military presence in the region. in order to help defend israel if necessary, deter iran and its proxy forces from entering the war, and protecting u.s. forces that are already stationed across the region. meanwhile, families continue to suffer through the immense loss. nearly 5000 palestinians have been killed by israeli airstrikes. nearly 16,000 are wounded. 70% of the victims are children and women and elderly. in israel, 1400 israelis were killed by hamas militants, and over 5000 have been injured. hamas is still holding at least 210 people hostage. joining me now, live from tel aviv, msnbc correspondent, hello gorani. alex, great to see you, i want to get your thoughts on the thoughts that are getting. on on the ground in israel. as we take a look at what's happening behind the scenes. through the release of more hostages the military posthumous taking place across the u.s.. what is the sentiment there on the ground towards the prime minister. as we see continued air strikes in this development of an airstrike in the occupied west bank town of jenin. >> sure, we were just looking at recent polling, though it's a pretty small scale survey. 80% of israelis according to a poll published in the jerusalem post, say that netanyahu must take responsibility for the october 7th attack that it was a failure of intelligence it was a failure of leadership. that being said, there is another survey that indicates that a crushing majority of israeli jews and it's important to distinguish between israeli jews and the one fifth of the israeli arab population 90% support a military operation in gaza as we see images coming from inside gaza of widespread destruction. in civilian suffering. you have really a majority of people on the one hand. criticizing netanyahu, already unpopular before the attack of october 7th. because of the judicial reforms that he was trying to impose and the corruption cases that he has been facing over the last several years. there's tremendous unity in this country around the idea that there should be a vigorous military response to the hamas attacks. there was a man that just approached us today. because he knew we were journalists. he essentially confirmed this. anecdotally. these poll numbers. that many israelis, he says, believe that netanyahu must go. what the israeli war cabinet is preparing to do in gaza has widespread support. because they think that eradicating hamas, you know, whatever the cost, in a sense, is something the country needs to do. a man? >> hello gorani, live for us in tel aviv, this evening, ali, thank you as always for starting us off. joining me now, martin fletcher, former nbc correspondent, and bureau chief in tel aviv. two of his family members. and his daughter -- will be released by hamas on friday. it's the first time i'm seeing you, i saw you on the night before you found out that your relatives were kidnapped and held by hamas. how are you feeling? how is the family doing? >> well, i'm feeling good. and the family is relieved about judith and natalie, of course. but at the moment, they're sitting shiva. that's the israeli week of mourning. two other members of the family were killed. actually, there's eight more members of the family still held hostage in gaza. that's the story for many families. it's a small community, many members from each family have been taken. >> given that part of, it there's so many families who are suffering as a result of the losses in the murder, but also that have loved ones held inside of gaza. what is the sentiment, just anecdotally, among your family, about this ongoing operation. what should the priority be, in terms of the israeli government actions inside gaza? securing the hostages, or destroying hamas? some believe it's incompatible, given what the military is doing right now. >> you know, most people in israel are in the army. many, many members of my family have been in the army. they take the pragmatic approach. first of all, they've all got children have gone to fight. so, there's. that look, priorities. everybody's personal priorities save the hostages. everybody's bigger priorities, exactly what we just heard, hamas needs to be defeated and destroyed. that's the feeling among the people. they know that, in launching a ground invasion, the lives of the hostages are gonna come second to the military option. >> the point about destroying or defeating hamas, i want to get your thoughts as a journalist, i've seen clips of you on our network talking as far back as early 2000s. even before my time in the region. saying that israel went after hamas, tried to destroy hamas. they certainly made that objective over the years. that policy has not clearly worked. is this policy, is this time going to be different? as a reporter, have you seen anything that makes you believe what israel is doing? or is capable of doing will be different? >> i think they could destroy hamas. israel is using a small percentage of its power right now in gaza. even though it looks horrendous, it's a small part of israel's power. the real question is, did israel everly want to destroy hamas? you and i, in the past we've been. we've been having the same conversation with several, almost a decade, and each, time is really prime minister, usually netanyahu, we're gonna destroy hamas. we're gonna kill the. we're gonna change this. they never do. then the question, politically, is that really netanyahu strategy? does he want to keep a weekend hamas in power. in order to balance the palestinians in the west bank. so we can always say, we have no peace. we don't really know what israel's endgame is. now, because of this horrific, ferocious attack by the hamas terrorist in israel now, israel's backing netanyahu militarily, politically, he's in a bind. >> we've heard israeli officials say we will turn to the status quo. we will never go back to october 6th of 2023, from a security posturing, from allowing hamas to operate in the gaza strip. the second part of the question is, what does that mean for the palestinians? israel will not return to the status quo, do we have, have you seen, any clear answer from the israeli government, as to what a post-hamas gaza looks like? what is post-palestinian political landscape without hamas look like? if you're not gonna go back to the status quo, from the israeli side, does that mean you'll be freeing the gaza strip? will the gaza strip be completely free for people to do and operate and live freely the way that they want? >> a, i'm sure italy doesn't know exactly what the post gaza situation will look like. it's a very difficult situation. those are the questions. what takes hamas's place? who governs the people? how do you look after the people? you know, if you ask what would hamas, what would gaza be like without hamas? well, there's an answer. the west bank. hamas support in the west bank. it's not run by hamas. it's one by the palestinian authority. rather poorly, but it's run by them. there is an example of what the west, palestinian life could be like without hamas. it is in the west bank. it's not great, but there's much more employment. many more jobs. a lot more hope. even though we're seeing a lot of outpouring support for hamas now. after all, they're fighting, they're gonna support them. >> we see in the west bank, a lot more settlements, a lot more israeli presence. and a very highly corrupt palestinian authority. i can't imagine that is the scenario that israel wants. certainly, from his security point of view, it's pacified. that's not a long term solution in gaza. >> this is the problem. israel wants to pacify palestinian population. instead of dealing with the real issue for the future. how are we gonna make peace? the israeli position is always there's no one to talk to. because hamas wants to destroy us. that's what i just mentioned. a sort of a hamas in power gives israel the opportunity to say there's no need to talk to. we have to, when i say we, my wife is really, i say we. israel needs to find a solution for the palestinian issue going forward. the whole world needs to. >> let me ask you finally, just this week alone, what we've seen transpire the west bank. there's been a -- 60 now palestinians killed. a lot of concern about israeli settlements, and what settlers are doing there, in the occupied west bank. are we losing sight of how volatile the west bank is, obviously, gaza is a completely different ball game. are you concerned that ignoring the situation in the west bank, and where it has been trending for the last several years, it's going to backfire and explode? >> not necessarily. because the west bank is so tightly linked with israel. more than gaza. gaza has a fence around it, which israel built to stop the bombers coming into israel. now, we talk about palestinians in gaza being an open air prison. i personally hate that term. that's the term that's used. west banks a little bit different. it certainly the same anger, the same frustration, the same rage. there's also a dependent on israel for employment, in the situation of the settlements, this government is israel is encouraging more settlements in the west bank. that is not helpful for the future. that's one of the reasons why israel is so divided. it's huge demonstrations, every saturday night. hundred thousand people in the streets. demonstrating against the government. quite extraordinary. >> for almost a year. >> i was gonna say, there's i don't envision a way in which prime minister netanyahu survives this politically, once the war is over. of course, the question is, when will that war be over? martin fletcher, always good to see you in person. very relieved for your family. thank you so much for coming on. >> thank, you name it. >> joining me now, palestinian american -- his 12 relatives were tragically killed by an israeli airstrike on a greek orthodox church in gaza city on thursday. thank you so much for making time. i know this is a very difficult time for you and your family. first, tell us a little bit about what you've learned about your extended family, why were they at, or how did they end up at that church, seeking refuge? >> thank you for having me, ayman. you know, my father was born in gaza. and i have many family members in the region including in gaza. they had moved there from their houses to the church of -- which is the third oldest church in the world. a few days before hand to really avoid the bombardments that were happening in and around their home. in the neighborhood of -- the church was supposed to be a safe haven for them. many hundreds of palestinian christians and muslims gathered in that church. unfortunately, in such an incredibly important and historic place of worship, with the bombardments, it did affect them directly. 12 family members were killed in this tragic attack. >> i'm so sorry for a loss. nader, i think a lot of our viewers were watching, this probably surprised to hear that gaza has a small palestinian christian community. i know that you have spent time going there. just talk to us about what that communities like. what your expenses have been? when you went to gaza. >> yeah, i think it's important to start with the fact that there is actually the existence of the palestinian christian community. it's naturally one of the oldest in the world. it's true, in gaza, we don't even count to 1000. but it's a community with protection. more broadly speaking, christian palestinians are about 1 million people worldwide. and listen, they are normal people. there are merchants, they are clergymen, they are business people. and they've always lived in harmony with either muslim or jewish brethren, in and outside of israel and palestine. so, it's an historic community, it's reflective of palestinian society. which is diverse. whether religiously, culturally, or politically. and a key tenant of this community is coexistence and the prevention of violence. >> we've been trying to focus a lot on the palestinians inside gaza. what do you want the world to know you have family, there you've suffered this unspeakable tragedy of losing relatives. what do you want the world to know about what is going on right now on the ground, and what palestinians inside gaza are going through? palestinian christians are not supporters of hamas, there's always that attempt to link palestinians as we heard earlier. with that brought and brushstroke. >> we've been trying to focus a lot on the palestinians inside gaza. what do you want the world to know you have family, there you've suffered this unspeakable tragedy of losing relatives. what do you want the world to know about what is going on right now on the ground, and what palestinians inside gaza are going through? palestinian christians are not supporters of hamas, there's always that attempt to link palestinians as we heard earlier. with that brought and brushstroke. >> yes, a couple things. number one, going back to your earlier question. like some of the memories i had about gaza. certainly before the blockade in the siege. we're a typical eastern mediterranean city. bustling with a beach. and really people would have ambition for life. unfortunately. you know a lot of gazans most. gazans including my family never had the opportunity to realize their full ambitions so there is an underlying issue. that we need to think about here. and self and secondly there is the story behind the numbers. you know just a few examples. two of my cousins their wives and children were all sheltering at the church where killed. one of those cousins and his wife had just welcomed a baby girl. they were robbed of that future. one of my other cousin survived. but he lost three of his kids under the rubble. so there are real stories behind the numbers that we continue to see in the media and social media. and quite frankly you know for us outside of gaza. there is a feeling of helplessness. we like the rest of the world are witnessing this human tragedy of unravel through social media. or on the news. and the humanitarian situation on the ground is more dire than one can imagine. communication is tough. it is very sporadic. we've, deep ongoing concerns for the safety of the surviving a murmurs of our family there. quite frankly, for all innocence plains where there. >> i pray for your family's safety. and i just cannot emphasize how important it is to hear that there are stories behind the numbers. i know that this is a difficult time for you and your family. but thank you so much for joining us and sharing your story with us. >> thank you for having me on. >> ahead, we will switch from politics overseas to politics right here at home. domestic politics and how republicans might be running their 2024 chances. as we enter week three without a house speaker. a house speaker. when i was diagnosed with h-i-v, i didn't know who i would be. but here i am... being me. keep being you... and ask your healthcare provider about the number one prescribed h-i-v treatment, biktarvy. biktarvy is a complete, one-pill, once-a-day treatment used for h-i-v in many people whether you're 18 or 80. with one small pill, biktarvy fights h-i-v to help you get to undetectable—and stay there whether you're just starting or replacing your current treatment. research shows that taking h-i-v treatment as prescribed and getting to and staying undetectable prevents transmitting h-i-v through sex. serious side effects can occur, including kidney problems and kidney failure. rare, life-threatening side effects include a buildup of lactic acid and liver problems. do not take biktarvy if you take dofetilide or rifampin. tell your healthcare provider about all the medicines and supplements you take, if you are pregnant or breastfeeding, or if you have kidney or liver problems, including hepatitis. if you have hepatitis b do not stop taking biktarvy without talking to your healthcare provider. common side effects were diarrhea, nausea, and headache. no matter where life takes you, biktarvy can go with you. talk to your healthcare provider today. he hits his mark —center stage—and is crushed by a baby grand piano. you're replacing me? 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great in my book! who are you? no power? no problem. introducing storm-ready wifi. now you can stay reliably connected through power outages with unlimited cellular data and up to 4 hours of battery back-up to keep you online. only from xfinity. home of the xfinity 10g network. here's why you should switch from chrome to duckduckgo. duckduckgo is a browser you download to your mobile and desktop devices. unlike chrome, the duckduckgo browser has privacy built-in. it comes with a private alternative to google search, which doesn■t spy on your searches, and it blocks cookies and creepy ads. and there's no catch. it's free. we make money from ads, but they don't follow you around. >> with jim jordan's join the millions of people taking back their privacy by downloading duckduckgo on mobile and desktop today. speakership is failing and spectacular fashion last week. as republicans are back to square one patrick mchenry has called a new gop spoken for tomorrow. following, that an internal vote amongst republicans will be held tuesday morning. many republicans are worried that whoever becomes speaker, this prolonged fight might actually have cost the party majority in 2020. for a large, part thanks to jim jordan. as one democratic pollster told the new york times, it's hard to present yourself as a figure of bipartisan compromise. and moderation. when you vote for someone who resolutely stands against any bipartisan compromise and is the furthest thing from a moderate voter. imagine, as a government shutdown edges closer, the senate has stepped in to fill the void. making house republicans going look even worse. the gop congressman steve womack told politico, we cede our ability to do what we need to be doing to govern to the senate. and to the white house. joining me now is terrace that, mayer senior adviser to the lincoln project. so, a few choice words come to mind to describe what we are seeing. i will first get your reaction to the jim jordan wheeler. did he really think he was the kind of leader that his colleagues and voters actually want? we witnessed the tactics over the years we know his strategy is to basically legislate terrorism. political terrorism. to quote his fellow ohio and john boehner. what do you make of this? and obviously jim jordan that he had a shot he went a couple of rounds and got over 200 republicans to vote for him. i guess he wasn't completely delusional to think he had a chance. for us those of us who were watching this knowing jim jordan's record. knowing his reputation to sit there and watch 200 plus republicans at some point vote in favor of jim jordan was surreal. it tells you that they are so desperate that they resorted to jim jordan as a leader kevin mccarthy once again, i call him a political salado mist. kissed he obviously seems to get off on humiliation. this guy gave a rousing speech trying to give examples of jim jordan's qualifications as a leader. you could hear the democrats in the chamber grumble they were laughing at him. it was so laughable. yeah jim jordan i mean the democrats and i said this before, the fact that jim jordan was even 25 votes away the democrats can use this. they can use this in campaigns next year and they need to. they're way them public ends vilified nancy pelosi or vilified the squad, it did not matter what you are running for, it could've been local dog catcher they tied them to nancy pelosi democrats have an opportunity to actually use what people like jim jordan and the maga extremists have said over and over again to help them and remind people next year this is who was almost in power the republicans can't govern. do you really want these people in charge michael mccaul who's been in congress for 20-year says that this was one of the most embarrassing moments in his time in congress the idea that they can't elect a speaker but guess what see boated for jim jordan. >> you bring up an interesting point to you have 200 on the first round. for voting for jim jordan that is a substantial number of people who wanted a person who is no election denier to be the second in command of the house and my question to you, this dispute is not about personality. this is an ideological on and nothing suggests that they are going to reconcile the divide within the republican caucus in the house. it's not about a personality if they can't agree with the fundamental facts of who is going to lead them, they can't agree on the person to lead them. >> that's what they're facing we see nine official declared candidates running for the speakership and they are all over the map and only tom emmer i believe to what is an election denier almost all the rest of them voted not to certify joe biden's election. that disqualifies everyone else. tom emmer's is completely innocent of getting in the mud and using some maga language and tactics when he was chairman of the nrcc during the congressional cycle there because the pressure he was getting from trump and maga world was great so of course they none of them are courageous enough to say no stop that so he got in the mud a little bit with that but he is not really a maga guy and we had we know that because steve bannon and maga world and trump himself have come out and said they don't like tom emmer because tom emmer doesn't like trump for a maga that is the qualification you have to be a trump lacking the election denier and someone who doesn't live up to their constitutional oath in congress or if you are someone who actually values that oath of office and has experience and understanding not governing as much are there to do not to be there to get social media posts and fundraising money and getting on fox news then that's a disqualification so the republicans are in a civil war and they don't know who they are they don't know what they stand for and therefore they can elect a leader so that's why what they are in the mess that there and. we >> have to pay the price for every day event. stick around we have a lot more to talk to you about we will discuss the georgia plea duels and which codefendants might be the next to flip on donald trump. stay with us. day or night. mucinex dm. it's comeback season. oh, hello! hi! do you know that every load of laundry could be worth as much as $300? really? and your clothes just keep getting more damaged the more times you wash them. downy protects fibers, doing more than detergent alone. see? this one looks brand new. saves me money? i'm starting to like downy. downy saves loads. here's why you should switch from chrome to duckduckgo. duckduckgo is a browser you download to your mobile and desktop devices. unlike chrome, the duckduckgo browser has privacy built-in. it comes with a private alternative to google search, which doesn■t spy on your searches, and it blocks cookies and creepy ads. and there's no catch. it's free. we make money from ads, but they don't follow you around. >> >> when you have been join the millions of people taking back their privacy by downloading duckduckgo on mobile and desktop today. criminally charged and you are at the center of a sprawling r. i. c. o. conspiracy case to overturn a free and fair election, the last thing you really want is for your loyal codefendants to suddenly flip on you and yet that is exactly what has happened and fulton county, georgia. it could be the proverbial nail in the twice impeached quadruple indicted ex presidents legal coffin. in the 11th hour this past week could die hard allies sydney powell and cannot chesbrough took plea deals in exchange for what will result in testimony against their former boss donald trump pleaded guilty to six misdemeanor accounts and chesbrough for his part pleaded guilty to one felony count of conspiracy to commit filing false documents. don't forget, bail bondsman scott pile had struck an agreement after pleading guilty to the conspiracy just last month. you have to wonder what about the likes of rudy giuliani the former trump legal advisor john eastman. former justice official jeffrey clark what are they thinking at this critical moment in this process. atlantic, the question is now whher these pleas have the devolving domino scenario that pross hope for in a big racketeering case like this. in w lowevel defendant decides to cut their losses and ecors in convicting the biggest names. three down6 to go. nobody wants to be the last domino to fall. tara setmayer is back with me. joining us back for this discussion. legal affairs columnist for politico. it's great to have you both with us i will start with you are not. on that last point what do the rest of the low level defendants have to gain by not flipping at this point what do you think of the legs of giuliani eastman and clark in terms of what they're thinking in calculating what should they do. >> the lawyers are in the biggest trouble one thing that fani willis did is she charged a lot of different people there was a shotgun approach there was a lot of different defendants and what you can expect is that donald trump and some of the people around him were going to point the finger at people like kenneth chance borough and sidney powell. of course not only some of the people you just mentioned like john eastman and mr. clark and so on but also someone like gianna allen and if you had to ask me who is the most likely next person i wouldn't be surprised if it's someone like gianna alice who doesn't have a lot of money doesn't have resources to be defending yourself. she is a lawyer she is very similarly situated to the two people that just pled guilty and all the lawyers are going to be in a tough spot at trial. they will have the people like donald trump saying the lawyers told me to do it the lawyers said it was okay and then they're going to have witnesses like kenneth chesbrough and sidney powell saying we were lawyers just like them and we were guilty of crimes. and that's what i think the next dominoes to fall and that's going to ultimately be a problem for donald. trump >> in the pecking order of things where would you rate the significance of jonesboro and powell's flipping. what is your take on the idea that these two flips could be as described as the nail in trump's legal coffin. what they are is the first domino to fall. the biggest impact here isro tkn aggressive legal stance. he wanted to get a speedy trial. he was out fighting and putting up a big front any ultimately foregut folded the card. now the question is is who does that impact next. does that impact jeddah. us is that go all the way to impacting rudy giuliani. someone who probably has many more conversations with donald trump. i think what really matters from these gillotti plays are the dominoes that are yet to fall they are really the first domino in the series. >> tara what do you make of this what do you think trump's thinking as he sees's die hard allies turn on him. we know how important loyalty is to this man. these are two people sydney powell, at one point was supposed to be a strong trump loyalist. >> sydney powell, who? she was never his lawyer. he's giving her the coffee boy treatment here and it's funny to me because counselor kraken after they found out and now she is turning states evidence. donald trump is not happy about this. we know. he's been unhappy about the fact that there is a r. i. c. o. charge. you have all these people who are more incentivized to flipping become states evidence than to go down with donald trump he demands loyalty to everybody else but he's not loyal to anyone. so, i interviewed michael cohen once and i asked him which one of trump's children when he throw overboard first. and he gave an order he thinks he would throw's own kids under the bus. first era. ken and don junior. and then ivanka came down to. it donald trump is not loyal to anyone and any of these people who are facing jail time or fines or losing their law licenses. why in god's green earth with they continue to go down with the ship and now someone like rudy giuliani is so desperate. he's broken he is desperate and trump will not pay his legal de-fees for him or paid him the money he owes him. i heard that giuliani is trying to sell his world series rings to raise money to pay for his legal fees he has hit rock bottom here. jen alice thinks -- thanks jesus is going to come in and pay her legal fees she is paying for that and she started a gofundme for that. these are people who are not in great positions to try to fight this battle. why would they for donald trump at this point. he's done nothing but ruin all their lives as my colleague rick wilson at the lincoln project says. everything trump touches dies including peoples careers. >> renata let me ask you about what this means for the january six investigation. powell and chesbrough they were two of the six unnamed coconspirators in the ajax mid election interference indictment. they were brought in over the summer. given how intertwined they georgia crimes are with the broader election fraud scheme how well their cooperation here effect that case and what does that mean for jack smith's case specifically. >> kenneth jonesboro promised that he was going to cooperate with the investigation. i think that's notable. as you point out amen these crimes are very similar there's a difference between the state crime in a federal crime. the conduct is basically the same. with chaz borough who pled guilty was a conspiracy to file the election document knowing that they were false and that really cuts to the heart of the scheme that -- i would not be surprised if kenneth jonesboro ultimately ends up as a witness in jackson 's case. i think the question is, is he part of the case and chief soda speakers he a car that smith has in his back pocket that he uses in case trump's times to claim the advice of counsel. the bottom line is that it's obviously a benefit for jack smith to be able to cut off a line of defense for trump. namely that he had the advice of counsel. >> tara sandmeyer, thank you to both of. you greatly pre sheet as always. next, we will go back to our top story of the evening. is it time for the u.s. to evaluate its broader middle east policy? 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(vo) get iphone15 pro, apple tv 4k and 6 months of apple one. all three on us. only on verizon. he hits his mark —center stage—and is crushed by a baby grand piano. you're replacing me? customize and save with liberty bibberty. he doesn't even have a mustache. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ >> it's time to change course in the middle east. that is the headline of a new piece in the national interest with argues in part that, quote the hamas attacks should produce a fundamental reconsideration of the middle east position. not doubling down on failed policies. others john hoffman and justin logan right hamas's terror attack and the israeli response both happened under a policy of deep u.s. involvement in the region. not withdrawal. joining me now to discuss the argument is stephen, cook for senior fellow for the middle east and african studies at the council on foreign relations. it's great to see. you thank you for making time for. us i cannot think of a better person to talk to about the middle east. let me start with the premise of that argument. made by hoffman and. logan hamas's horrific attacks on october 7th, the ongoing israeli response, they are a result of the u.s. being too involved in the middle east. the u.s. has consistently backed on democratic and a liberal orders in their region. promoting a false sense of stability. >> well, you know, i am a little reluctant to take these guys under actually since they are not here to answer. i will set -- >> the premise of the argument. >> yes i get what you're saying. look, i don't think hamas attacked israel because the united states is engaged in the middle east. in, fact we are coming off of about ten years where much of the discussion and washington was about how to the emphasize the middle east. hamas has. it's on its own goals which is that states is the destruction of the state of israel. and the israelis have their own goals, which is the security and quite honestly annexing the west bank territory which keeping the was a strip -- the violence that's happening has a logic to have its own that separate from the american posture in the region. you can quibble with peacemaking, you can argue with the transformative impulse that led the united states to try to promote democratic change in the reason that bill throughout the 2000s. i think the kind of horrific violence that we are seeing in this current war has less to do with the united states than it has to do with the dynamics on the ground. >> let me ask you about the peacemaking. effort in the last couple of years there has been success. people have pointed to the success of the abraham accords as a example of diplomatic triumph. the u.s. was intimately involved in brokering. it was widely believed to be on the cusp of something bigger between saudi arabia and israel. as this hamas work continues, do you feel like that was a mistake to prioritize peace and normalization between israel and the broader air bro without securing peace between israel and the palestinians first. >> well i think that's what the argument that many critics of abraham accord fell. whatever promise the israelis had made to its partners about nauta fixing territory was only there murdered word. they consider the blister senate -- with the recent government. of, course it's important to remember that normalization was happening between israel and the uae for a number of years even before the abraham accords. the saudi relationship has a logic on its. and i suspect that the current war and the brutal horrible humanitarian capacities -- catastrophe is going to bring that to a halt. it does suggest quite obviously like the palestinian -- people around the region if not the government. >> speaking of the, region i know you're like. may you keep a pulse on what the region is saying. what the leaders are saying. let me play for you something that perhaps did not get a lot of attention here in the u.s. over the past couple of days. these were comments made by jordan's king abdullah. take a listen. >> it's been two weeks since israel put in place the complete siege of the gaza strip. and still, for the most part, global silence. yet the message, the arab world's hearing is loud and clear. palestinians lives matter less than israeli ones. our lives matter less than other lives. >> a reminder for our viewers, this is as strong as american allies you can. get very close with the americans and israelis. and someone, i would argue, those are powerful words. speaking in english in a summit that is in the arab world. >> indeed, if you've ever lost the presidential debate, he is the arab leader that everybody looks to and says that he is there for maryland leader. they were mostly directed at the jordanian public rather than large demonstrations in front of the u.s. and israeli embassy. and also to the united states. certainly, the idea that the president of the united states has backed the israelis to the hill, try to square that circle by also rhetorically saying the united states supports the protection of innocent palestinians. it doesn't ring true to people in the region. i will say one of the most interesting parts of king abdullah speech was the beginning where he actually implicitly criticize hamas for its attack on israeli citizens. he referenced something called the pact of omar from the 15th century that said muslim warrior should not kill children and women and old people. it was something that was unexpected. it was just as important as his words criticizing the west over what's happening in the gaza strip. >> it's a very important point. if you lived -- at texas earlier this week. e. l. so condemned hamas. the condemnation is there. i think that's why it's prompting discussions that there be a broader devitt revision of what's happening in the middle east right. now steven cook, it's always a, pleasure thank, you my friend, thank you for making time for us this evening. >> a quick programming note. tomorrow starting at six a, and morning joe has a main are light of a guess with the latest on the israel-hamas war. national security council spokesman john kirby. philly plaza rainy, the commissioner general, the united nations relief and work agency for palestine will join this show as well. as well as new york governor kathy hochul. it all starts at six a. m. eastern right here on msnbc. we will be back in just a moment with the final thought. ong tito find some relief. cosentyx works for me. cosentyx helps real people get real relief from the symptoms of psoriatic arthritis or psoriasis. serious allergic reactions, severe skin reactions that look like eczema, and an increased risk of infections, some fatal, have occurred. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms, had a vaccine or plan to or if ibd symptoms develop or worsen. i move so much better because of cosentyx. ask your rheumatologist about cosentyx. try killing bugs the worry-free way. not the other way. zevo traps use light to attract and trap flying insects with no odor and no mess. they work continuously, so you don't have to. zevo. people-friendly. bug-deadly. he hits his mark —center stage—and is crushed by a baby grand piano. you're replacing me? customize and save with liberty bibberty. he doesn't even have a mustache. only pay for what you ed. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ >> families separated. homes, communities and places of worship's destroyed. innocent, lost, dreams shattered. death, that is the cost for. even after all of the conflict ends. scars of violence persist for generations. in the forms of physical and emotional trauma. passed down from generation to the next. here are just some of the faces and voices of the war. from inside of gaza. and a warning to all of our viewers. you might find some of the following content disturbing. >>. in the streets of gaza, people are losing hope. >> there is no safe haven in gaza. there is no safe the road in gaza. there is no humanitarian cease-fire in gaza. there is. nothing there is nothing but bombs and bombs. now i am waiting, all the people in gaza waiting for a death. children unable to escape the images of death in front of them. >> my sister was killed by a bomb. [speaking in a global language] even in the hospitals, there is no relief. >> i could see the wounded being carried towards us and do the emergency department. there are body is lying lifeless on the ground. they are wounded in the hundreds. salma had amputated limbs. some had very severe injuries. [speaking in a global language] dr. stretched to breaking points. >> we will choose which patient to be on the ventilator. -- less than i even ten years. small girls, i civilians. it is unbelievable. whatever i'm describing and saying it's not a reality. the reality is more wars. >> you had seven the cases in all the universities here. they all depend on the ventilation. they depend on others with medication that need electricity. when the electricity stops we will lose all these cases -- for those trying to get out of gaza they are forcefully behind loved ones. -- >> we were alone. we didn't know if we were waking up alive or dying. if our family is alive. we try to contact them. we couldn't even reach them. not by phone up by internet or messages. i'm sure if there is even a way out. >>. . i am injured. we need to evacuate our family. not for luxury, but for treatment. >> no one has food, no electricity, no water. they're killing innocent babies around. us there's bombs every day. we cannot sleep. we were trying to leave, we can. leave what can we do. where trapped. a lot of people died. there is no life. it's not fair. >> with that, we wrap up our program for the evening. thank you for making time for us on what's been a difficult week. until it's been again, i -- have a good night venting lower respiratory disease from rsv and over 94% effective in those with these health conditions. 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