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of. ayman donald trump's gag order in the federal election case to reinstate, it we're gonna have the latest details in just a moment. then even more legal troubles for the ex president. his entire family about to take the stand in his civil fraud trial. and mike pence goes out with a whimper. our farewell to the man who barely made a dent in the 2024 presidential race. i'm even mohegan let's get started. we begin this hour with our breaking news, the judge overseeing donald trump's federal election subversion criminal case has reinstated a gag order she issued on the ex president just earlier this month tanya chutkan also denied trump's request to issue a long term stay of the order which bars him from publicly targeting court personnel, potential witnesses or the special counsel's team while his appeal played out. she originally issued the order after prosecutors raise concerns that the ex president could intimidate witnesses or encourage harm against prosecutors through his public comments. at this hour donald trump now faces to gag orders barring him from discussing his legal cases in the public. here's one from check-in who is overseeing the case by jack smith and washington d. c.. the second one that is from a judges overseeing the civil fraud trial here in new york. now while the orders are both limited in their scope they've a measurable limit on donald trump's speech in his ability to attack the court. here to discuss this is durban reuben. former manhattan prosecutor jennifer horn former new hampshire publican party chair and writer and editor for msnbc daily. jordan i'd like to start with you as a former prosecutor. your reaction to this news with this on trump's gag order basically reinstating it. do you think a particular reason she did this right now it's not surprising for a couple reasons because it was her order in the first place. it would be more surprising she to complete reversals like no you're right trump. so in that respect isn't surprising. trump hasn't done himself any favors while this is being litigated. over the last week with this gag order another case he's been fined twice. so between that and him going after mark meadows as well and the federal election subversion case he hasn't done himself any favors so the judge isn't gonna immediately reversed her own order coupled with trump making it worse from self as usual it's not surprising that he reinstated it. >> prosecutors argued in favor of listening this because trump was attacking individuals associated with the case and now we have that decision. if he continues that behavior i think that suggested he probably will continue with this commentary rhetoric threats against the judge and other members of the court. what happens next if he violates that? >> there are bunch of options on the table. it came up while it was being litigated in obviously that includes penalties up to imprisonment. as we see it play out the new york case those penalties are necessarily being imposed. there was a 5000 dollar fine then a 10,000 dollar fine. so that same approach is going to be what this judge is gonna take there's gonna be very little incentive for trump to keep quiet about the things that are supposedly dangerous. so whatever tools she has just gonna have to impose them more forcefully than judge engoron has been if she wants the order to have teeth. jennifer mike pence excluded from the original order because he was running against trump for president. however some political developments this weekend. he has announced he is out of the race. how should the order reply to him now that he is not a political participant and simply an ordinary citizen who is potentially a witness to an alleged crime. >> i suppose if the judge wanted to have this order applied to every person in this case who could potentially testify against donald trump or have some say or influence it would have to be much less limited. i would have to be much more expansive than that i don't see it going in that direction she hasn't shown any inclination her points have kind of been to hold things back a little bit and not overreact, i don't know if that's the right word but it's so important this gag order even in its limited scope is so important. what we know from history is that donald trump when he starts playing games and is out there with this wild and dangerous rhetoric he does have supporters that will become violent and take action his words to put other people in danger. and i suppose mike pence would love to be included in this gag order but i don't see anything so far that's come out from this judge that would suggest that she's gonna expanded any further at least not right now. donald trump has called jackson's a thug, a deranged lunatic call them very biased and unfair. i suspect those are far from the only insults that we are going to hear from him going forward. if anyone else was attacking figures like that, the truth is there would be a lot more trouble than a gag order, no the facts of this gag order and jack smith was arguing that it should be reimposed as a condition. the fact that in this case going into this the fact that the fines are so small, like jordan is pointing out especially considering how much wealth he has. will you or i would be pretty upset about going $15,000 to the court. trump can remake that the issuing a fund raising email saying can you believe what the spice judge in new york is doing to me. that is chump change to him if it were someone who is not a previous president, for violating the gag order as clearly as he has they would be back in jail. they would be seen as having violated the conditions of their release and should not be out and able to make these threats against witnesses and members of the court. the judge had actually given donald trump, not the benefit of the day but she was willing to entertain his stay and granted the stay until us worked up. she clearly did not have patients for it after what he did earlier this week. walk me through what happens next. the gag orders reinstated but as i understand this process will still go forward and we expect that decision. how long will it take in what could they possibly decide. >> the next thing is trump appealing this temporary denial to the court so trying to get the order back on pause. trump had it down as litigation is playing out. that's something we'll want to look out over the coming week. that's probably the next action we're going to see well a more long-lasting order happens from the appeals court. i think we'll see this stay litigation and pause because trump is gonna want to try to get the appeals court to put the pause back on will they consider the ultimate decision whether this gag orders lawful in the first place. >> how do you see this newly reimposed gag order affecting the gop primary. we know the president's going to say, he's going to say as he said before that they're trying to limit my free speech there trying to hurt me. but the truth is they have said this specifically that the president has the right to say whatever he wants to say even politically about this case, he just doesn't have a right to threaten the personnel of the court and witnesses. >> the problem that the judge is addressing here is that donald trump is targeting very specific people in certain circumstances. frankly i think it will have very little impact on the primary. his opponents in this primary have already defended him and his right to free speech in suggested that this gag order is inappropriate in that manner it won't impact trump's own supporters. it won't impact the general gop base even those who are not specifically supporting him right now they also look at donald trump as the leader of the party. they will back to his wishes and his statements and when he says his right to free speech is being infringed upon, they will back him up. just like when he says the election was stolen, even though we know wasn't. they still back him up. frankly, i don't think this will impact his position or the way anybody else in this primary is dealing with them. >> your thoughts that mike pence is out of the race, and how that impacts how he may approach the jacks mitt case. >> could he potentially now since he's not someone seeking voters. -- >> we flip against the president. >> everyone on the show tonight would be a huge fan of that happening. will actually happen though. i don't know. mike, pence the fact he had to drop out for doing the right thing. even in his book, the most recent book the fact that he still skirted over how bad it really wasn't truly horrifying it is. the president was saying to cheat basically and keep him office. pence could once again surprise us and do the right thing. especially now that he has no real upside to continuing to downplay what happened. he has given testimony before his folk in the special counsel solely be a witness at the trial i don't know? but the chances are higher now i will say. >> i panel please stick around don't go anywhere we have a lot more to discuss after the break. we will shift to another trump case as the ex president and his children are set to testify in the civil fraud trial this week. who is here at the headlines. >> good to see you some of the stories we are watching for you over 1000 people gathered this evening. remember the 18 victims of wednesday shooting in maine. they packed a church for the ceremony was someone monitors outside this is the first official city event after the days of locked in off the manhunt. >> now 48 with six people missing the hurricane hit acapulco mexico as a category five storm leaving residents without power or communication. and initial autopsy result is inconclusive pending a toxicology report in the left friends actor matthew perry. he was found after a drowning in a hot tub yesterday and at some of the palisades area and southern california. there is no apparent foul play. he 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to get an $800 prepaid card with a qualifying internet bundle. comcast business, powering possibilities. here's why you should switch fo to duckduckgo on all your devie duckduckgo comes with a built-n engine like google, but it's pi and doesn't spy on your searchs and duckduckgo lets you browse like chrome, but it blocks cooi and creepy ads that follow youa from google and other companie. and there's no catch. it's fre. we make money from ads, but they don't follow you aroud join the millions of people taking back their privacy by downloading duckduckgo on all your devices today. >> donald trump is about to have the worst legal week of his life. that might sound hyperbolic to you, but i just want you to consider this for a moment. we've got the new york attorney general letitia james and her 250 million dollar -- trump in his real estate empire that will force the ex president and three of his oldest children to the witness stand, starting this coming week. donald trump jr., a codefendant and the case, is expected to testify this wednesday, november 1st. this brother eric also a codefendant, will testify the very next day. ivanka trump will testify on friday november 3rd, and the family patriarch himself will testify the following monday, november 6th. new york attorney general alleges that the -- financial statements that were given to banks, insurers, and others to help secure loans and deals. trump denies any wrongdoing and is called the trial a politically motivated sham. but, the case could strip trump of some of his corporate holdings and key properties like trump tower. this week's schedule -- blockbuster stretching the child, because the attorney generals office knows that, the prosecution plans to rest its case asked after trump testifies. speaking of, aside from his three minute appearance on the stand this week to answer questions about violating a gag order, donald trump hasn't testified in open court in a decade. and his children are the most significant witnesses yet. not just because of their family ties to donald trump, but also because of their current or former stature within the trump organization. ivanka trump worked as the executive vice president of the company for years until she left to work in the trump white house. letitia james claims that she had her own hand in the fraud, saying, quote, miss trump called misleading financial statements to be submitted to deutsche bank and the federal government. according to new york officials, as trump's -- fraudulent net worth to save him as much as 100 and $50 million on $400 million worth of deutsche bank loans. ivanka will also likely be asked -- historic old post office property in washington, which trump later converted into a luxury hotel. then, there's don junior and eric, who are still actually running the company to this day. both are his trustees and executive vice presidents. all three children not only have intimate knowledge of donald trump's allegedly shady business dealings, but they're also accused of actively participating in those allegedly shady dealings. it's no surprise that trump's been lashing out at judge arthur engoron and on his fail social media site. he spent the last -- any kind of accountability, running away from fines, or any kind of government oversight, legal punishment, but finally, thanks to the new york attorney letitia james, there's nowhere left for him to run, and nowhere left for him to hide. let's bring back my panel to break all this down. jordan, i'll start with you. what can we expect ivanka does take the stand? how damaging could her testimony before trump in her brothers? >> quite damaging, and i think the prospect of earthbound testimony from the entire trump family is going to make this an even spookier halloween week for them than it was going to be already. as you rightfully pointed out, when we talk about the trump children, these aren't just people who happened to be related to a guy who runs this big business. they're in the business themselves. don and eric now, and ivanka formerly. but importantly to their, as the attorney general has pointed out, she still retains an interest. that's part of what made it impossible for her to get out of testifying, even though she's no longer a defendant in the case itself. so i think we got gonna see four of them is having to walk this tightrope -- not wanting to commit perjury, but not wanting to essentially turn on their father, but it's really turning on themselves to, to the extent that they either do or could in a more tangential way have an interest in the family business. so how they're gonna talk that type road remains to be seen this week, but this is what i'll be looking out for. >> very quickly, jordan, how do you as a prosecutor ensure that they don't commit perjury? because the logical convention would be that if these aren't shareholders or have a big important stake and executive vice presidents in the company as is the case with the two sons, you would think the logical wisdom would be that they would want to protect whatever they may have done in the past by any means necessary. how do you, as a prosecutor, ensure that they are going to tell a truthful, honest testimony, and not lie on the stand? >> so, one of the reasons that we might see something more truthful from them then we might otherwise think is, remember, before this trial even started, they lost a huge chunk of this case and already being found liable for the ongoing fraud. really what we're seeing play out in the trial are some other aspects of that fraud, and also how much they're gonna have to pay for it. but i think the fact that they're already in so much trouble really only leads them so much wiggle room to shield the company. there's not a lot of room that they have. we could wind up actually seeing some significant, what else seem like, emissions from them, and maybe they will be, but an important thing to remember is that they've lost a big part of this case before the trial has even started. >> interesting. very important reminder there. jennifer, it's one thing for trump to downplay his relationship with witnesses like michael cohen. he's even doing it with cases in georgia, with jen ellis saying he doesn't know who these people are, more or less the fact. but he can't say that about his own kids. he can't say that in trial, and certainly not in the court of public opinion, when he had his daughter with him at the white house, and he's boasted about his children all of his life. >> sure. you would think so. you would think so. >> it sounds like you think there might be an opportunity for him to throw them under the bus. >> absolutely he will throw them under the bus if he thinks it will benefit him. that's exactly where i was headed. you know, are you suggesting you can't imagine donald trump saying, oh, junior never told me about that, oh, eric never told me about that. of course he would. of course he would. of all the things that have happened, his own adult children who brought in his operation testify against him in a manner where the public will be fully informed of everything they say, this is probably the most damaging thing in this whole process that could happen to donald trump. especially, frankly, ivanka. because she is the one -- she was, i'm sorry, on the campaign trail, and then in the white house. she had very, very high likability and approval ratings amongst republicans, amongst donald trump's supporters. they liked, her they trusted her, she was one of his best surrogates. at the same time, that's not to suggest that any of this testimony, again, will change how his most ardent supporters see him. they will find an excuse for why, somehow, his children were forced to say things, that they're going to suggest or just not true. >> what do you expect to hear from donald junior and eric trump? >> i expect them to follow in their father's footsteps, plead the fifth when they can, try and spin, try to avoid directly answering questions whenever possible. because what it really comes down to, is they've been holding the bag for him for the last several years. while he was in the white house, they were the ones technically in charge of the trump organization. they are still the ones who are handling day-to-day operations. so they are here to take the fall, basically, for their father. i can absolutely see a world where trump senior does trying to spin it as, oh yeah, junior in, eric they were making these decisions without me, even though i'm sure his signature is on all the documents that tish james has in front of her. i think that's what it's gonna come down to, considering how invasive they can be. what documents does laetitia james have in front of her that she can show, well, this clearly states this thing, versus this discrepancy over here in this file that was federal filed to deutsche bank or the federal government -- probably a great week to be tiffany trump. >> jordan, i've got to ask you. if you're looking ahead to friday, i think all eyes will be on that, maybe more important stuff will come out before them, but just having the spectacle of donald trump on the witness stand regardless of what he says, it has to be telling. the moment is just a very incredible moment when you think about it. a former president on the stand in a situation like this. you've got the attorney general, one of the -- after the former president testify and, it would be the end of the trial. and that case has really been building up to this moment. talk to us about what that day will look like, and, what if anything, comes out of a trump testimony. >> right. so remember, if the schedule holds, he'll be testifying after his adult children already have. so he'll be a total wreck by then, and if he keeps violating the gag order in line, i'll be out some -- i'm not doing math on the fly, but maybe another 50 grand. the same rough pace that he's going at. his pockets or his supporters pockets might be a little lighter between now and then. he'll already have seen is kids testify, and it's gonna be really approaching this ultimate moment, as we're alluding to, and against this adversary who he completely hates in the attorney general. so, michael cohen's testimony was a huge showdown, sin is gonna be true with all of the kids, and then we get to, at the end, the final boss, as it where, in terms of both the company, and as we might think of it in video games speak, with donald trump himself. >> thank you so much. jennifer hayes, please stick around with us. i've got a bit more to talk to you about after the break. mike pence's exit from the presidential race. is it meaningful to anyone other than mike pence? somedays, i cover up because of my moderate to severe plaque psoriasis. now i feel free to bare my skin, thanks to skyrizi. ♪(uplifting music)♪ ♪nothing is everything♪ i'm celebrating my clearer skin... my way. with skyrizi, 3 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customize and save with liberty bibberty. he doesn't even have a mustache. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ here's why you should switch fo to duckduckgo on all your devie duckduckgo comes with a built-n engine like google, but it's pi and doesn't spy on your searchs and duckduckgo lets you browse like chrome, but it blocks cooi and creepy ads that follow youa from google and other companie. and there's no catch. it's fre. we make money from ads, but they don't follow you aroud join the millions of people taking back their privacy by downloading duckduckgo on all your devices today. i think i'm ready for this. joiheck ya! with e*tradeple you're ready for anything. marriage. kids. college. kids moving back in after college. ♪ here's to getting financially ready for anything! and here's to being single and ready to mingle. who's ready to cha-cha?! >> all right. the 2024 gop primaries has lost a major candidate. okay, maybe major is not the right word for it. former vice president mike pence announced yesterday that he is suspending his 2024 campaign, saying, quote, this is not my time. yeah, that might be true, mike, but i'm personally more partial to salons explanation, quote. mike pence calls it quits on presidential campaign due to no one really caring about him. sometimes, the headline just says it as straightforward as it can. let's bring back jennifer horn and hayes brown. hayes, mike pence in any way gonna have an impact on the 2024 race? well nikki haley suddenly surge? ron desantis get some bump from this? >> suddenly, to 0. 3 points have freed up is all everyone is getting now. -- freeze up an extra podium on the next debate. given his fundraising and his polling, he was probably not gonna make the cut for that debate anyway. so now. he's probably not gonna have much of an impact on the race at all, which is so shocking, in a sense. the fact that you have to go back to 1972 to see the last time a former vice president didn't get the nomination, even, for his party when they were running for president. you have to go back further than that, 1940, to see the last time that a former vice president tried to run against their boss, with john nance garner running against roosevelt and losing. this is historically, if not the first time it's happened, but it's been a minute. so congratulations to mike pence on bringing back this long dormant tradition. >> and those of private -- he did his constitutional duty, that he thought that perhaps there was a part of the republican base that would be constitutionalist, and would appreciate the fact that mike pence, on january the 6th, was standing as a bulwark against a movement to destroy american democracy, that if he ultimately did the right thing, he would be rewarded for it. now, i wonder, is this guy gonna endorsed donald trump? does that make his entire campaign a farce? does it destroy any credit that he gets for doing the bare minimum during the capitol insurrection? >> well, mike pence's political career certainly since joining the trump administration, frankly, has been a fire's all along, from start to finish. remember that mike pence said that donald trump was reckless on january 6th, but not criminal. in spite of the fact that donald trump, you know, supported all those folks who are chanting, hang mike pence, hang mike pence. you asked a minute ago, ayman, does anybody care that mike pence is out of the race? and really, no. in two or three points that he was carrying there. but the one person who does care is donald trump. because if he can get mike pence to endorse him in this race, it makes mike pence's -- any potential testimony from mike pence a little less, you know, it makes it harder for pence to really go after him, and easier for trump to criticize anything mike pence might say against him in court. >> i mean, hayes, a lot of people would say this is donald trump's race to win, the gop primary, and everyone else is simply auditioning for a vice presidential position. perhaps with the exclusion of ron desantis, who, the way donald trump has beaten up on him mercilessly, it's just so embarrassing, i can't imagine, but then again, i can't imagine much of what republicans would do. nikki haley potentially still winning that number two job. how does mike pence's exit strategy, since he doesn't want that job, the vice president job, and the fact that he brought a lot of evangelicals to the trump base, still factor in that part of the race? what mike pence does from here on out? >> you make up a -- good point. mike pence was initially recruited because of that evangelical base he brought on board. the, you know, the culture wire light version of the republican party, let's put it. the 19 90s sort of quaint version of the cult culture wars that we now see playing out. -- desantis have tried to hype, turn the volume on. trump doesn't need that anymore. the evangelicals aren't going anywhere. now that he is their guy, he doesn't need to take that into consideration. that opens up a lot of questions about, what does he need to know vice president? i really think all he needs right now, he used to have to consider things like geographical balance. we have someone from the south, we need someone from the north of the west. oh, we have this kind of person on board, we need to balance that character to bring in the black vote, or this kind of a. i don't know what trump needs at this point. so, someone who will just say yes to whatever he says. i mean that. exactly. he needs just someone who believes in donald trump. and who he thinks will not stab him in the back, should he begin to fall. >> i was gonna say, someone who potentially is willing to say publicly, i will pardon you if i become your vice president and you find yourself in more legal trouble. jennifer lauren, hayes, brown always a pleasure. thank you both for joining us throughout the night. up next, we're gonna turn overseas to focus on the high risks of reporting on the israel-hamas war. liberty mutual customized my car insurance and i saved hundreds. with the money i saved, i started a dog walking business. oh. [dog barks] no it's just a bunny! only pay for what you need. ♪liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty.♪ after advil. feeling better? on top of the worlddddd!!! before advil. advil targets pain at the source of inflammation. when pain comes for you, come back fast with advil liqui-gels. >> if the international media is objective, it serves hamas. if it just shows both size, it serves thomas. if it creates symmetry between sufferings without first checking who caused it, it serves hamas. >> that was israel's former prime minister telling international media outlets how he believes war coverage should be framed. it comes as axios reports that secretary of state anthony blinken has asked the qatari prime minister to rein in al jazeera's war coverage, according to three people who attended a meeting last week between blinken and american jewish leaders. the secretary appeared to be talking about al jazeera arabic, not al jazeera english. as these officials seek to control how the news media covers the war, the actual journalists responsible for that coverage, the ones not hundreds of thousands of miles away, but actually on the ground inside gaza, are being killed. according to the committee to protect journalists, at least 29 journalists have been killed and the israel-hamas war thus far. that includes 24 palestinians, four israelis, and one lebanese. other journalists are trying to cover the warrant while losing members of their families. my friend and former qua league had al jazeera's -- wife, son, daughter, and grandson after they were killed in an israeli airstrike. the very next day, he was back on the air, committed to his work as a journalist. [speaking in a global language] now, the work these journalists do on the ground, especially inside gaza, is crucial to helping the world understand the full story of the wire and those impacted by what is happening. but it is becoming impossible for them to do their jobs with basic supplies running low and constant israeli bombardment. in fact, israel's military has told reuters and afp that it cannot guarantee the safety of their journalists operating inside the gaza strip. as npr producer told the washington post last week, quote, i was forced to leave my job to go to my family in order to evacuate them. where am i going to hide them? is there any safe place in gaza? there's another issue to address here. and it goes back to the problem of officials seeking to control or influence information about the war. he is president biden this week casting doubt on the dot polls coming out of gaza. >> he previously asked netanyahu to minimize civilian casualties. do these numbers say to you that he's ignoring that message? >> what they say to me is i have no notion if palestinians are telling the truth about how many have been killed. i'm sure innocents have been killed, and that's the price of waging a war. >> he didn't say hamas. he didn't say health officials. the president of the united states saying palestinians, telling the world to doubt the numbers just on onside of the war. in an apparent response to biden's remarks,he gaza health ministry released the names and ages of more than 6000 people it says have been killed since the war began. -- the numbers from the health ministry -- still hundreds of people buried -- [inaudible] journalists are risking their lives to tell the truth about what is happening on the ground. those stories should not be undermined by leaders who seem to want to skew the narrative of the war to favor one side over the other. palestinian american writer -- writes in the new york times, the task of the palestinian's to audition for empathy and compassion. to prove that we deserve it. to earn it. so not only our international observers, independent organizations, and former -- foreign reporters barred from entering gaza to report on it firsthand, but even one palestinians report on it themselves, they are dehumanized, they're killed, and they're told they are lying about their experience and suffering. after the break, i'll speak with the president of the committee to protect journalists. gned smarter. like a smart coffee grinder, that orders fresh beans for you. oh, genius! for more breakthroughs like that- i need a breakthrough card. like ours! with 2.5% cash back on purchases of $5,000 or more. plus unlimited 2% cash back on all other purchases. and with greater spending potential, sam can keep making smart ideas- a brilliant reality! the ink business premier card from chase for business. make more of what's yours. my most important kitchen tool? my brain. so i choose new neuriva ultra. unlike some others, it supports 7 brain health indicators, including mental alertness from one serving. to help keep me sharp. try new neuriva ultra. think bigger. you deserve better than that. i'm hungry, i'm in a hurry, i don't have time to make anything healthy. you could if you had a blendjet. blendjet? it's the portable blender that makes the healthy choice the most convenient choice. i don't know. it seems like a hassle. hahaha! wrong. just pour in some milk, add some frozen fruit, and bam! you've got a nutritious and delicious smoothie. mmm! that is good. you're welcome, sad office guy. get yours today at blendjet.com are we in in an ad? we sure are. with cirkul, your water is deliciously flavored at the turn of a dial, with zero sugar and zero calories. and cirkul has over 40 flavors, so your water can be as unique as you are. try cirkul. your water, your way. now with even more flavors. available at walmart or drinkcirkul.com. he hits his mark —center stage—and is crushed by a baby grand piano. you're replacing me? customize and save with liberty bibberty. he doesn't even have a mustache. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ (fisher investments) it's easy to think that all money managers only pay for what you need. are pretty much the same, but at fisher investments we're clearly different. 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(fisher investments) no. we structure our fees so we do better when our clients do better. that might be why most of our clients come from other money managers. at fisher investments, we're clearly different. why didn't we do this last year? before you were preventing migraine with qulipta®? remember the pain? cancelled plans? the worry? that was then. and look at me now. you'll never truly forget migraine. but qulipta® reduces attacks, making zero-migraine days possible. it's the only pill of its kind that blocks cgrp - and is approved to prevent migraine of any frequency. to help give you that forget-you-get migraine feeling. don't take if allergic to qulipta®. most common side effects are nausea, constipation, and sleepiness. learn how abbvie could help you save. qulipta®. the forget-you-get migraine medicine™. >> the committee to protect journalists says the past three weeks of the israel-hamas war have been the dunlay's time to be a journalist covering a conflict since they began tracking it in 1992. the president of committee to protect journalists, jody ginsburg, joins me now. jody, it's good to have you with us. thank you so much for talking. i wish it was under better circumstances. let me start with the big news that we heard today, that internet, phone service, seems to be gradually being restored in gaza. i've been able to get in touch with journalists still on the ground inside? >> the reception is still very patchy. we have been, to my understanding, been able to really get hold of anyone. what we've been doing for the past few weeks trying to verify the attacks on journalists, the deaths of journalists, as you said. this is the worst time to have been a journalist covering any conflict and the 30 plus years that we have documented this. just to put in some context for you, last, year 68 journalists and media workers were killed globally over the space of 12 months. this year, we've documented -- just over this conflict, we've documented 29 deaths and the space of just three weeks. so, over a third of last year's total global death toll. >> describe the conditions, as you understand them right now, and the dangerous journalists are facing. the israeli military has told reuters in the afp that they cannot guarantee the safety of journalists inside the gaza strip. under international law, journalists must be protected during a war. so how should the international community be intervening, given your understanding of what is happening inside? >> you're right. so, journalists are considered civilians in any conflict such situation, and should be treated as such. it's extraordinarily difficult, it's unimaginable, what journalists are currently trying to go through and gaza. they are simultaneously trying to find places of safety, keep themselves safe, but also report on the air strikes, on the bombings. we've heard of people trying to go and cover, for example, refugee convoys, when they know that those are under attack. there's very little fuel, very little water. there was, as we heard, a complete blackout for 24 hours, and this is a time when we absolutely need journalists. we need them to be our eyes and ears. there are no international crews in gaza at the moment. so were entirely reliant on local palestinian journalists who are not only trying to bring the news to the world, but as you said in your intro, oftentimes having to report on the deaths of their own family, friends, and colleagues. >> i want to ask you, if i can, broadly speaking, about the media in general, and the pressure it's under to cover the story. before the break, you probably saw we mentioned the former israeli prime minister, as well as the u.s. secretary of state, trying to shape and sonsera media coverage of this war. what do you think of the pressure that's being applied on institutions to cover this war in one way or another? >> look, journalists have been under increasing pressure internationally for a long time as communities become more and more polarized and journalists get attacked as being on one side or the other. it's particularly acute covering this conflict, and therefore, those individuals who are simply trying to do their job of reporting the facts, telling us what's happening, are being accused of being partisan for one side or the other. and that's incredibly difficult. but often comes with online harassment, physical assault. we know of news crews, for example, in tel aviv and elsewhere who've been literally pulled out of their cars and held at gunpoint by police. people have been harassed at rallies outside of israel and palestine, it's incredibly challenging for journalists reporting on this issue. >> so, i guess given the nature of what's happened and the way journalists are being viewed nowadays and some of these conflicts, journalists being, as you said, beaten, others having their family members killed are having to worry about them seeking refuge why they tried to do their jobs, what precedent does this set going forward? who would be willing to do this very necessary and crucial work if the stakes continue to be so high and so dangerous, and if no one steps in to ensure the safety of journalists? >> it sets an incredibly dangerous precedent. we need journalists. we need people who are willing to hold power to account, who are willing to report what's happening so that they can cut through the enormous manse of miss and disinformation that's currently circulating on this issue in particular. fortunately, there are many people who continue to want to do that, who really feel that they have that calling. you saw -- lost his wife, his family, his grandchild, who is that reporting the next day, and continued to be people who despite the enormous pressures, whether it be in gaza or anywhere in the world, who continue to want to bring the truth to us, the public. it's an absolutely essential role. >> what can the public do, if anything, to ensure the safety of journalists? i think ordinary people may be watching this thinking, okay, this is something -- i can't enforce international law, i'm not a government official. what can ordinary listeners, social media users, due to amplify the need to protect journalists? >> i think the most important thing is we can defend journalism, and individuals who are -- there's been a narrative for many years that journalists are enemies of the people. most journalists are local journalists bringing us local news that's vital for our everyday lives, the news about the weather, the news about health care. and that's absolutely essential. the fluid most thing that people can do to support journalists is to support journalism. support their local newspapers, and continued to support a pluralistic and independent media. >> i. right jody ginsburg, president of the committee to protect journalists, it's always a pleasure. i really appreciate your insights, and talking about this. i know it's a difficult time for journalists all around the world. jody ginsburg. thank you. we're gonna have more ayman after a quick break. don't go anywhere. travis, did you know you can get this season's covid-19 shot when you get your flu shot? huh. two things at once. two things at once! ♪ two things at once. i'll have the... ...two things at once, please. now back to two things at once. ♪ two things at once. that's not two things at once. moooom! travis? 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