briefed on what the u.s. knows about the killing of journalist jamal khashoggi, but not by the cia director who actually heard the tape of his murder. coming up, the insooider's viewf the former cia chief john brennan. and unopposed, nancy p pelosi no competition as she seeks to take the speaker's chair, but will she be able to control the e e vvolving caucus? >> i think that the caucus is coming together very well, and we all agreed on everything all of the time, then there would not be much growth. >> hi, and good morning, everybody. and goodday, rather. andrea mitchell here with a shocking fallout of a new york times report that paul manafort's lawyer has been secretly briefing president trump's team on the talks of the federal investigators and a possible reason that mr. mueller canceled mr. manafort's plea deal. and could the latest twitter tirade break the senator's longstanding resistance to protect the mueller probe? kristen welker is joining with us the very latest. kristen, talk about "the new york times" story, and you spoke to rudy giuliani of the president's team, and they are pushing back strongly from mueller, but how unusual is that, that paul manafort would be secretly briefing them? >> it is incredibly unusual, and you played a series of the sound bites at the top of the show underscoring that. i reached out to rudy giuliani, and the president's attorney and i asked him if he could in fact confirm that they are being briefed by manafort's attorney, and he would not connirm nor deny, but he used my inquiry as a chance to take fresh aim at the special counsel, and the special counsel's prosecutors and let me read you a text message from rudy giuliani who said to me earlier that the treatment of manafort like he is a terrorist, and incarcerating him before trial, and solitary incarceration, and are repeated questi questions even when they have shown that they will use unusual exertion to force someone to lie to get out of jail. that is a are rebuttal, andrea, that if there were any mistruths, that he was pushed into this, and this is coming before a plea deal of manafort and mueller has fallen apart, because mueller's team say that he has lied, but the manafort's attorneys have pushed back and said that he has tried to be as truthful as possible. bottom line, this is a question that we have been talking about throughout the week, is president trump considering a pardon of manafort? he has never taken that off of the table, and press secretary sarah sanders was asked about that yesterday, and she said that she is not aware of any n conversations revolving around that, but right now, andrea, that is where everyone's focus is, and is that what president trump is thinking? because we don't have any confirmation from the attorneys on that. >> and we will be drilling down on that point today. thank you for kicking it off, kristen well eker, at the white house. and meanwhile on capitol hill, congressman jim hine is joining us from the hill. and first of all, what is your take on the revelation from "the new york times" that manafort has been back channeling the white house even before the president responded in writing in what has been called the take home exam that if president's lawyers delivered with his input to mueller. what does this tell you? >> it tells us, all of us one thing and one thing only, and in combination with the revelation that manafort had continued to lie to the special counsel, and subsequent to the plea agreement, any prosecutor will tell you that people don't do that and what is going on here? one thing is going on here sh, that is that paul manafort is still on the president's team, and providing information no the president's lawyer which is helpful to the president, and hiding something or at least being perceived as being on the team, because of course he is playing for a pardon. that is the only explanation that makes any sense right now, and it is a perfectly credible explanation, because the president has the power to do it, and what we is saying on twitterday is designed to reduce to the, tent possible the political fallout that will come from him pardonning paul manafort, and you need a bunch of senators and some members of congress and some portion of the public to believe that what the president is saying is true that he is compromise and a conflicted democrat, and then you have a political debate of whether the pardon made since and not the obvious conclusion that this is right out of the godfather and the godfather handing out pardons for those who served him loyal ly and wel. >> and chris coons is going to be pushing to try to get to the floor to force action despite the opposition from the majority leader mitch mcconnell as we can see chris coons is taking the floor to try to push the action on this longstanding legislation to try to protect the manafort -- excuse me, to rye to protect the mueller probe from interference with matt whitaker as acting a.g. what are you hearing or seeing on the house side? >> well, i think that, you know, certainly subsequent to january when there is a democratic house, there is no question that the legislation would pass the house of representatives. the question, of course, is whether, yes, chris coons and also jeff flake who is saying that he will not vote on any further judicial nominations until the senate votes on protecting the mueller investigation is where the action is. that is of course secondary to this issue. you know, most americans believe that this investigation should proceed. the president should believe that even though he is trying to delegitimize this, and there is one thing, and with one thing only that the president believes is true that there is no collusion, and so most people understand that it needs to go forward and so what manafort is doing is not about the investigation but playing for the presidential pardon which is the one conceivable way that he does not spend the bulk of his life behind bars. >> what is the role of manafort and what it says about the investigation and whether the investigation has been co compromise and badly damaged by blowing up the e plea deal? >> well, manafort is obviously badly damaged as a witness in the mueller investigation. he has shown to be a serial liar even when he plead guilty and agreed to cooperate, and he is apparently subsequently continuing the lie. and in a challenge to the mueller investigation, you ever had the intention of using paul manafort or putting him on the stand, and that is obviously now testimony that would come with a great deal of baggage attached to it, and for those of us in the korngs it tells us that there are those, and we don't know who else, roger stone, corsi and those who are a lot more interested in playing to the the president's sense of loyalty and therefore lying, obstructing and getting in the way of an investigation like the one that was with undertaken by the house and still on going in the senate than they are in telling the truth. that is going to create a challenge for anybody doing an investigation. >> and let me ask you about the house leadership, the democratic caucus meetings today. do you have any doubt that nancy pelosi is going to end up as the speaker, and what concessions is she making as we speak? we will talk to kasie hunt there momentarily that you saw at the meeting. >> yes, the meetings are under way right now, and one position is determined the caucus chair position, and the next vote is on who the democratic leader, and yes, no doubt that nancy pelosi is going to win that race to be democratic leader, and the inside question is how many people vote no, because it is apparently a yes/no vote to nancy pelosi and some who said in the campaign that i said i would vote no and that is going to allow them to say they did that, but a small group of democrats with who say they will vote gaiagainst her on the floo and when i say small, i don't know how big it is, but it is seeming like to be in 20 region, and obviously no surprise to anybody that nancy pelosi is in intense conversations with people who are on that list. >> and congressman, a follow-up, does she have to make some change in steny hoyer's position or clyburn or others to keep the caucus together? >> well, those positions of the majority whip are elected by the caucus. so, you know, i don't think that the idea of at this point challenging steny hoyer or jim clyburn whose elections are today, and that is no question, and maybe i am breaking news, but hakeem jefferies won the election narrowly to chair the caucus, and so he is a young guy, and so he is starting to elevate those from a different crop of leaders, but it is not nancy pelosi's call to say who is going to be where because that is a product of the democratic caucus, and there are as we saw with marcia fudge, there are tools that she can use and agreements to make, but who is in leadership is not one of those things. >> we know that she is adept at exercising that, and that is one of the arguments to keep her as speaker, because she is the kind of the general that one could argue that you democrats need as you take over to figure out what the priorities are going forward. anyway. thank you so much for weigh ing in, and the conversation and i know that you have is to run. thank you, congressman. >> thank you, andrea. >> and capitol hill correspondent kasie hunt is right there in the middle of the action and tell us about your read of what the caucus is doing today? >> well, andrea, we have really seen the fruit of pelosi's labor here today. she has been working very hard and very diligently p behind the scenes to quiet with what is a loud and ultimate ly not big enough rebellion the take her on. their focus has shift ed ined i recent days with this group as many of the new members posted out mostly white males who have opposed to try to affect the number two and three positions instead of hers, and so a lot of the drama has gone out of the room. she has introduced and what is going on behind me is the morning session breaking up. so we have seen both old and new members walking through the hallway and they are going to be using another room for the speaker election which has not yet gotten under way, but she has done a remarkable job of kind of including the younger members, because really the push has been to include and offer opportunities to people of different generations. so the caucus chair race is part of this. hakeem jefferies is an ambitious rising star was elected caucus chair which is the position that joe crowley had been held and he is a potential speak ner in waiting who is much younger, and he edged out barbara lee who is a long-time part of the congressional black caucus, and considered part of the older guard by about ten votes, so it was very close. but he edged that out. so that of course is going to lead into what we will see later on this afternoon. and if you are looking at the lineup of people that pelosi has vouching for her, joe kennedy, the charismatic young congressman who is from the kennedy family, and considered a rising star, and there are three women freshmen who will speak on her behalf and closed out by john lewis, who is of course, an icon and not just in the d democratic party, but across the country in the context of civil rights and all of our lives broadly. so that kind of demonstrates how broad the demonstration of the support is that she is trying to put out there. so at this point, we don't anticipate any surprises, and we are watching the dccc race to see who is going to be responsible for running the democratic campaign, and what started out with questions of nancy pelosi's future, and she has again proven that she is the best vote counter in the congress. >> thank you so much, kasie hunt, right there on the spot. and coming up, artificial intelligence and why the head of the cia was noticeably missing, including my voice is missing, from the briefing of saudi arabia today. and cia chief john brennan is joining me next on "andrea mitchell reports" right here on msnbc. ohhhh...enough already! we need to see a doctor. ask your doctor about myrbetriq® (mirabegron). it treats oab symptoms of urgency, frequency, and leakage. it's the first and only oab treatment in its class. myrbetriq may increase blood pressure. tell your doctor right away if you have trouble emptying your bladder or have a weak urine stream. myrbetriq may cause serious allergic reactions... ...like swelling of the face, lips, throat or tongue, or trouble breathing. if experienced, stop taking and tell your doctor right away. myrbetriq may interact with other medicines. tell your doctor if you have liver or kidney problems. common side effects include increased blood pressure, common cold or flu symptoms,... ...sinus irritation, dry mouth, urinary tract infection, bladder inflammation,... ...back or joint pain, constipation, dizziness, and headache. need some help managing your oab symptoms along the way? ask your doctor if myrbetriq is right for you, and visit myrbetriq.com to learn more. this is moving day with the best in-home wifi experience and millions of wifi hotspots to help you stay connected. and this is moving day with reliable service appointments in a two-hour window so you're up and running in no time. show me decorating shows. this is staying connected with xfinity to make moving... simple. easy. awesome. stay connected while you move with the best wifi experience and two-hour appointment windows. click, call or visit a store today. and in a busy day on capitol hill, moments ago secretary of state mike pompeo and secretary of defense james mattis had a classified briefing for senators on saudi arabia, but the cia director gina haspal was noti noticeably missing. >> i think it was a mistake not to have the director of the cia not there. >> nobody was happy that she was not there. >> and not having gina has pel at the cia briefing was a cover-up. >> this is the most persuasive presence in the briefing was the empty chair. >> the administration instead trying to switch the focus today to why the u.s. in their view needs saudi arabia as an ally against iran, and joining me is john brennan, the former director of cia and now an nbc special intelligence analyst, and i can't think of a better person to talk about, because it is well known that you are a former bureau chief stationed in saudi, and you can walk and chew game at the same time as lbj said memorably, and you can be an ally with mutual interests against iran, and iranian terrorism, and still draw a line against the murder of a washington-based american resident, journalist, washington post journalist. arguably ordered by the leadership, and the other excesses of what has been going on in the civil war in yemen. >> yes, andrea, nobody on either side of the aisle is looking to destroy the u.s./saudi strategic relationship which is strong, but there is a difference of preserving the relationship and holding the crown prince mohammad bin salman for account for the murder of jamal khashoggi. and to not do that by this administration is a bad signal to saudi arabia that they can get away with this, but other despots who may decide to take action against american persons, and journalists, and this is outrageous, and the fact that donald trump, and now mike pompeo in "the wall street journal" op-ed are trying to make excuses of defend iing the indefensible, and it should outrage senators both democrats and republicans. >> and i want to read something that was in the washington posts article yesterday. in this interview, this is similar to what he has said in the last week or so publicly about the cia's assessment and about the murder of jamal khashoggi. asked about mohammad bin salman the crown prince, i know him and i know him well, the crown prince and by the way, i never did business with them, and i don't intend to do business with them he adds parenthetically, but i feel it is very important to maintain that relationship and it is important to have saudi arabia as an ally in that part of the world, and now, are we going to stay in that part of the world, and he has frequently gone on to make outlandish claims about the saudi arms deals, and ignore the fact checking of all of the inflated numbers right now. what is the effect, i should say, of what the president is doing in questioning the analysis, and in questioning the crown prince's role, and then, you know, brushing it off? >> well, this is very typical of donald trump, that e shgoing to disparage any assessment or analysis whether it is going to be mbs's involvement in the kill ing of jamal khashoggi or whether it was russian interference of the election, and anything that does not comfort with his pursuit of his own agenda and politics, and unfortunately, they have a relationship now with mohammad bin salman that they are trying to preserve and it is going to be to the detriment of u.s./saudi relationship over time. and everybody wants to preserve the relationship, and the saudis and in particular king has to purge the country of the cancer that has taken root in the country. >> and what about gina haspel not showing up today, because this is a briefing where there would be a top figure at the cia at this all-senate briefing. >> well, what they are looking for is the intelligence that they need to take into account as they try to formulate policies and legislation, and not having either gina haspel or dan coats the director of national intelligence participating in the briefing as senator durbin said that the empty chair speaks a lot, and whether or not that was a direction on donald trump, himself, or some other person like john bolten, gina's absence and dan coats' absence is noticeable, and demonstrates that this administration does not want the intelligence to come out, and that is why i think that the intelligence committees should demand that the cia assessment be declassified and publicly released for all to see. >> i want to just clear up terms of art here. because the cia makes an asse assessment based on the best analysis, and they say that with whatever confidence that assessment is delivered, but it is never a 100% conclusion, so when the president says that they did not really decide, and maybe he did or maybe he didn't, and he is using the wiggle room that is always the case with a cia assessment. it can be low confidence, high confidence, relatively low confidence. am i correct? >> if the press accounts are correct, and they say that the cia has determined with high confidence that mohammad bin salman was involved in this killing that is a rather, you know straight forward and strong cia assessment which is based on intelligence nuggets as well as the expertise that ci a a brings to the table on what they know about saudi arabia and know about mohammad bin salman and the actions and whether or not this is information that the cia gets on its own or relies on the patter ins overseas whether it is the turks or others and therefore coming to that conclusion of high confidence, it was an affirmative assessment in terms of the involvement of mohammad bin salman in the killing. >> and i wanted to show you what happened when our colleague hallie jackson was trying to pin john bolten down yesterdayester whether or not he had listened to the tape of the murder. >> no, i have not listened to it. i guess that i should ask you why i guess that i should? what do you think they would learn from it? >> well, you the national security adviser and you might have access to that? >> how many in this room speak arabic. >> you don't have access to the interpreter. >> well, if they were speaking korean, i would not have learned more that than that. >> and well, an interpreter would tell you that. >> well, i could read a transcript here. >> you don't think it is important -- >> i am trying to make the point that if you don't listen to the tape, and unless you speak arabic, you won't learn h anything. >> and you were a former adviser, and what do you say to the national security adviser not wanting to listen to that audio tape whether or not it is in arabic, and there is a lot that you can get from a tape of somebody being murder and dismembered. >> i have be asked if the president should listen to the raw intelligence, and there is not a real need for that. i don't believe that president obama did it and donald trump did it, but the drirector of th cia and gina haspel does not speak arabic either, but she listened to it with arabic translators at her side according to the press reports and so for john bolton to understand the horrific nature of that murder, this is the person that donald trump turns to find out exactly what went on, and between gina haspel and john bolton and giving him a sense of how awful this act was that was directed apparently by mohammad bin salman is something that the national security adviser should have done. >> and mohammad bin salman arrived in argentina in advance of the g20 and the president is going, and no one-on-one meeting is scheduled, but should the president meet with him? >> well, if donald trump is going to meet him in order to look him in the eye, and read him the riot act that this is involvement and his involvement is something beyond the pail and he is going to be held to account, then there is a reason, but the chances of donald trump saying that are fairly remote, so no, i think that mohammad bin salman needs to be shunned and be an international pariah because of what he did to the american journalist at the saudi consulate in turkey. so donald trump should not meet with him unless he is going to reed him t read him the riot act. >> and now, the putin meeting, the summitt with putin is sk scheduled in the conclusion of this meeting in a argentina and the last one was in helsinki and should they meet one -on-one without the advisers and without professional notetakers and should the president give him the riot act about what just happened in ukraine? >> well, he needs to underscore how serious the situation is in the ukraine and crimea area, and how it can escalate, and how the united states is not going to tolerate this russian aggression in these waters. so, again, i don't know whether donald trump has the gump shun to do that and the intestinal fortitude and he should not meet with putin in a one-on-one like he did in helsinki and he should have bolton and not just a translator, and this is what the presidents have doneb in the past, and i have lost confidence and not they had much to begin with in donald trump's ability to carry out the affairs of national security policy in an honest and enlighten ed manner. >> jonathan brenmannan, thank you very much. always good to see you, sir. ahead on "andrea mitchell are reports" the president striking the head of the fed jerome powell. i will speak to one of the reporters who spoke to president next right here on msnbc. americans rose up this november and rejected donald trump. more unhinged by that than ever, this president declared war on the rule of law. but you gave democrats the power to hold him in check. a majority vote in the house can impeach him and expose his lawless behavior for all to see. they just need the will. please join over six million americans and together we can give congress the courage to act. then, we can begin building a more just and prosperous future. to severe rheumatoid arthritis was intense. my mom's pain from moderate i wondered if she could do the stuff she does for us, which is kind of, a lot. and if that pain could mean something worse? 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>> i was asked to be here and i am here. >> and should she have been here? >> yes, sir. >> you have seep all of the intelligence related and do you believe that the crown prince of saudi arabia directed the killing of jamal khashoggi? >> i believe i have read the intelligence even that has come in the last few hours, and there is no direct reporting connect ing the prince to the order to murder jamal khashoggi and that is all i can say in an unclassified setting. >> are there any scheduled meetings with north korea? >> i don't have anything to add on the sequence of event, but we will have senior level meetings before too long. >> and you are saying that you on the precipice of a deal. >> yes. of the first opportunity for them to get together. >> and all of trump's public statements indicate that iran is very far from coming to the table with negotiations and how do you rectify that? if it is true. >> the parties that are going to be there are going to be those who are engaged in the civil war in yemen, and so representatives from the yemeni government and what the h-- other interested ps ark and there is a been providing support to the houthis to fight well e beyond whbeyond would have been able to do. and we are hoping this is going to resolve the civil war and resolve a massive human crisis in yemen today. >> you saw that heather nauert, his top aide, the undersecretary, the acting undersecretary was trying to cut off the questions, and he did answer another question that he wanted to answer about the iranian support for rebels in yem yemen, and phil rucker, he artfully dodged the question of whether he believes and garrett haake asked him if he believes that mohammad bin salman was responsible for jamal khashoggi's death, and he said that he has seen no direct evidence. there is no direct evidence, and they have cameras there and an awe owe tape, and it was damaging according to all reports, and they didn't are respond fully to the question as to why gina haspel was not there and the cia assessment, and so they are still ducking the issue. >> they r and the cia has clifred thesclifr -- delivered thes assessment t the white house that the crown prince ordered the brutal murder of the journalist. and we asked about the line of maybe he did and maybe he did and a he said that he had been spoken to the crown prince who assured him that he had nothing to do with the killing and people around mbs have assured him that he had nothing to do with it, but the cia does have an assessment about this intelligence and there is evidence linking mbs to the killing. >> and i wanted to ask you about the question os on climate change. his climate change denial and the quote from your interview, the president told you that one of the problems that a lot of people like myself, we have very high levels of intelligence, but we are not necessarily such believers. if you go become to look at the articles they talked about the global freezing and talking about at some point that the planets could have freeze to death is the quote, that it is going to die of heat exhaustion, and i mean, i don't know where to start on the counter factual anti-scientific comments by the president. >> yeah, andrea, and it was really striking, because he is not only in conflict with the consensus within the scientific community in america and around the world, but he is in conflict with the findings of his own administration, the government, the federal government issued a national climate report late last week that laid out a number of economic effects as well as other effects of global warming over the next several years. and trump told us that he is not ready the believe it. he is not there in terms of agreeing that global warming is manmade and caused by man, and as you have said in the initial quote that you just read, he is not what is called a believer in the climate change science. >> do you think that he has read the report or even a summary? >> i think that he is aware of what the report says, and whether he has read it page by page, we can probably guess perhaps not, but he has been briefed on it. he tends to take the briefings in oral form, you know, pictures, and graphics and videos as opposed to poring over the written words of documents. >> and there were a number of blank spaces, if you l and the virtual blank spaces in the interview where any time you asked him about paul manafort, there was a going off of the record moment. >> yes. >> based on your experience and your knowledge, do you think that there is, you know, some kind of a game plan involving the word par ddon in the future? >> yeah, that is a good question. you know, whether there is an actual plan for the pardon, i don't know, but i think that you can tell simply by the public comments that trump has made on twitter that he is very upset with the way that the special counsel is proceeding with the investigation, and, you know, i think that he is sim ympathetic witnesses like paul manafort who trump has said that their lives have been destroyed and they have been pressured every which way to bring evidence incriminating the president and others as being a part of a conspiracy, or a part of the russian interference in the 2016 election, and so perhaps down the road, the president would consider a pardon, but i am not sure that there is any concrete plan under way to do that. >> of course sh, he was convict in a federal court of all but ten count, and he did plead guilty as well. >> that is correct. >> to be continued. >> phil are ruckruc rucker, aga congratulations to you on the interview. and coming up, triple agent, was paul manafort back channeling the white house as a bid for that pardon? 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>> well, you know, as to the first, paul manafort has really sunk his own ship, and at least through the legal process, he has been facing a double digit number of years in jail which is likely to effectively to be a life sentence, but i agree with you that i find more interesting this notion that his lawyers were relaying or at least had a back channel to trump's lawyers, including rudy giuliani, and there is a -- this is a very important point, andrea, because if there were any discussions emanating from the president and his attorneys or agents to paul manafort and his lawyers and one of the lawyers reference ed id "the new york times'" article dangling a pardon, and that is to me witness tampering, and you are trying to once this point, paul manafort is going to plead guilty he is now a government witness, and if you are trying to corruptly influence his testimony by dangling a pardon, we are talking about witness tampering and it also may b and it is a tougher case, but it may be bribery. that could implicate rudy joule ya yawny if -- and you can now put information out into the open. i think this is an opportunity for them to not be restricted. they can't really be impeded in those processes so i think will be curious for us over the next couple of days to finish out this week and then moving into next week to see if a lot of that information gets pushed out into the open and reveal subsequent things like suppression, slowing to not be restricted, and they can't be impeded in those processes, and so i think that it is curious for us over the next couple of days to finish out this weekend and then moving into next week to see if a lot of the information is pushed out into the open which can then reveal subsequent things such as if there is any sort of suppression or slowing down of the investigati investigation. >> and we have been making a big deal justifiably about the loss of manafort. >> and so what are you seeing with the president and the cooperating witness but he has not been impeached this way? >> we don't know the details of the meeting and rick gates was not in that the one with high l and significant connections and relationships to russia and, you know, there are also allegations that he is connected in some variation to julian assange and wikileaks. so you do lose the conversations that paul manafort had but clearly robert mueller has a lot of information because he's going to be able to prove i suspect that paul manafort lied on a number of subjects and he can only do that with strong evidence. >> thanks to both of you. obviously, the flynn and manafort sentencing documents are going to be very interesting, indeed. dan, clint, appreciate seeing you today. thank you. and coming up next, judgment call. can senate democrats swing enough republican votes to block a controversial judicial nominee? that's ahead here. the meeting of the executive finance committee is now in session. and... adjourned. business loans for eligible card members up to fifty thousand dollars, decided in as little as 60 seconds. the powerful backing of american express. don't do business without it. you're in the business of helping people. we're in the business of helping you. business loans for eligible card members up to fifty thousand dollars, decided in as little as 60 seconds. the powerful backing of american express. don't do business without it. hi dad. no. edon't try to get up. hi, i'm julie, a right at home caregiver. and if i'd been caring for tom's dad, i would have noticed some dizziness that could lead to balance issues. that's because i'm trained to report any changes in behavior, no matter how small, so tom could have peace of mind. we'll be right there. we have to go. hey, tom. you should try right at home. they're great for us. the right care. right at home. ♪ the greatest wish of all... is one that brings us together. the lincoln wish list event is here. sign and drive off in a new lincoln with $0 down, $0 due at signing, and a complimentary first month's payment. only at your lincoln dealer. the pressure cooker that crisps. it's the best of pressure cooking and air frying all in one so in as little as 30 minutes it will be crispy on the outside, juicy on the inside, and on your table. the ninja foodi, the pressure cooker that crisps. tonight in this victory, the reason we won is because mississippians know me and my heart. >> this is a movement. and this movement is not going to end for a new mississippi, a more united mississippi. >> the republicans cindy hyde-smith won that mississippi senate runoff expanding the republican senate majority to 53 votes. that's it for the senate contest this year. the contest, though, mired in racial controversy as the heart of the old confederacy stuck to the roots. what lies ahead for the senate? joining me now is jonathan capeheart from "the washington post" and jeremy peters of "the new york times." both msnbc contributors. capeheart, first to you, that was an ugly race and last beat from the president on the eve of the election saying, you know, how does mike espy fit with mississippi when his roots go back to his great grandparents slaves. >> yeah. >> and his grandfather more than 100 years ago becoming the most prominent businessman, white or black, in mississippi. >> mike espy is mississippi. he is part of the -- want do say he's part of the dirt. his family. he was raised there. he grew up there. he is probably more mississippi than senator cindy hyde-smith. that race was ugly. it mirrored the sort of closing argument of president trump made in leading up to the end of the midterm elections that, quite frankly, mired in racism and xenophobia and for the president to swoop in to do two rallies in mississippi, one of which where now senator smith is standing there saying, you know, this is a vote for conservative values and that she's 100% behind president trump. what kind of message does that send to all of mississippi? i know in her speech last night she said she is going to be the senator for all mississippians but how can, you know, the black population of mississippi actually believe that when she couldn't speak with any coherence about the public hanging comment, about going to segregated schools, sending her daughter to sege segregated sch? >> jeremy, mike espy came closer, ten points better than hillary clinton did in mississippi. so it was a narrowing of the gap. it was single digits. >> yes. that's exactly right. >> but -- we're still in deep red, ruby red mississippi. >> right. for -- >> primarily because of the rural vote. >> i think cindy hyde-smith and donald trump's pairing, the south has a long way to go. i don't think donald trump or cindy hyde-smith really wanted each other there in this race to be -- she was an agricultural commissioner for mississippi. a career politician. she's been in state politics almost 20 years. not donald trump's kind of shake up the system type of candidate here. she rode around the state in a bus with his picture on it. you don't need anymore tangible evidence that this is donald trump's republican party than that. so i think that while mississippi is, you know, on the -- i'd say the back end of this type of change -- >> the change is a-coming. >> change is coming. texas, florida, georgia. that's where i would look. >> let's switch gears for just a moment because the senate is now in the midst of -- starting the roll call for a procedural vote on thomas farr, a controversial nominee. we watch the senate floor. mike pence in the chamber to potentially break a tie. we don't yet as i speak whether tim scott is going to join the democrats or stick with the republicans and get this judicial nominee with a very controversial civil rights record, a very -- >> a very -- >> troubling civil rights record. >> when i interview dr. william barber in north carolina where, you know, judge farr is from, when i interviewed him, he spent quite a bit of time talking about the fact that farr was no, ma'am na-- nominated he had don more to disenfranchise the african-americans, remember the ad, the crumpled -- >> yeah. american candidate in north carolina. 1992. >> farr was a part of that. and so, the fact that this person is now going to get -- potentially could get a lifetime appointment to the federal judiciary is drubling judiciary is troubling to lots of people. the republicans know he is in big trouble. >> that's why the senate is so key and hyde-smith is important vote. >> exactly. that's why the vote is being held today. thank you very much. >> thanks. >> jeremy, jonathan. and that does it for this edition. we'll be hearing from that roll call. follow the show online, facebook and twitter. and the vote will be reported by ali velshi for "velshi & ruhle." >> thank you very much. i'm ali velshi. stephanie is off today. let's get smarter. >> president trump's gut, his gut tells him more than anybody else's brain. that is just one of several new declarations by the president in a wide ranging interview with "the washington post." the president points his finger squarely at the man he chose to lead the federal reserve calling the fed his biggest threat. >> he said i'm not even a little bit happy with his choice of jay, jay being jerome powell. >> as always, the decisions will be designed to keep the economy on track, in light of the changing outlook for jobs and inflation. >> about a meeting w