thank you at home for joining us this hour. sometimes at big moments. sometimes when our country is wrapped up in big historic events, particularly when there's fast-moving news and there can be information overload about it, sometimes it's almost easier to see what's going on here if you take somebody else's viewf us. if you look in on us from the outside. i mean, it's one thing for us to cover, day in and day out, these twin tent posts of history we're pitching up under aej day now. this pandemic and election to see if we're going to re-elect this president during this pandemic. we do our best every day. sometimes though, maybe particularly on a sfrooid night, it is clearer or kind of just easier to grauk, easier to absorb when, instead of us, americans covering the situation among ourselves, sometimes it's easier to understand it, see it through brighter eyes when it's a nice british lady covering it for an audience in another country. >> we're rounding the turn. drives them crazy when i say that. we're rounding the turn. >> reporter: the only turn these people are rounding is from one cue into another. at milwaukee's biggest covid testing site. around one in every four people waiting here will test positive. wisconsin now one of the world's coronavirus hot spots. >> eight/nine hours a day every day and it's nonstop for the most part. >> reporter: close to 90% of wisconsin's icu beds are full. this intensive care unit already at complete capacity. a field hospital in milwaukee is taking in patients to help the stretched system. but some frontline medics are furious. washington is adding to their strain. and seeing how the pandemic has been politicized here. >> i find it maddening. some people say it's going to geaway on november 4th and as you've seen, as you came to our house, these are not people who are political consequences. they are real sick people with real viruses. ♪ >> reporter: donald trump ignored pleas from local doctors to cancel tuesday's rally in wisconsin. but this state was key in winning him the white house. and his campaign went ahead in the country's covid epicenter. >> all they want to talk about is covid but the good news, on the fourth, they'll stop talking. you watch. they'll stop talking. you get out that red wave, just get out. we have to win this election. >> this is a news story from sky news based in london trying to explain our craziness to a foreign reporter. she even interviews a trump-supporting wisconsin voter who lost her father to covid, who says not only is she voting for trump again but if he was holding his superspreader rallies closer to her house, she would like to go to one, even though people keep getting covid at the trump wisconsin rallies and even though her father has already died from covid. here's how that report wraps up. >> reporter: while wisconsin is breaking records for coronavirus, it's seeing records for voter turnout. at the forefront of the election battleground, and now the covid frontline. sally lockwood, sky news, wisconsin. >> how we are viewed abroad right now, sort of in a nutshell, from that sky news report in britain. we're basically viewed as insane. today, at some of the final rallies of his re-election campaign, the president said american doctors are inflating the numbers of covid deaths. the president is now telling his rally audiences that american doctors are faking covid deaths for money. he also said covid isn't that bad. you get it but then you get better. and i know you think i'm being hyperbolic and paraphrasing the president's remarks. it does sound insane but that is how he's closing things out. >> you know, our doctors get more money if somebody dies from covid. you know that, right? i mean, our doctors are very smart people. so, what they do is say i'm sorry but everybody dies of covid. it's true. they'll say it's terrible what he said but it's true. it's like $2,000 more. what happens issia get it, you're going to get it, stay away, you're going to get better and then you're immune and it goes away. t goes away. but this lying, this is an act, just like yelling fire in a crowded theater is an act. the president is closing out with multiple rallies in which he's telling thousands of supporters that you don't die from covid. what happens is you get it and then you get better and you're immune and that's it. then if you hear of people dying of covid, you shouldn't believe it because that's a conspiracy made up by greedy american doctors and greedy american nurses who are faking covid deaths for money. rses who are f deaths for money that's his closing message. that really is how the president is asking us to re-elect him. nbc news a reporter, gabe gutierrez, has been in montana for the last couple days. his team got permission from families of two patients being treated in billings, montana, in intensive care. their families gave permission for gabe and his team to see them and to talk to their doctors and nurses. and this is -- this is distressing, i will tell you. this is a little bit difficult to watch. but i absolutely believe that you should see this. >> how serious are patients like this? >> very serious. you see -- you see him, no longer on a ventilator. but he is still receiving high-flow oxygen, right now. he is weakened, in more than one way. being in a hospital bed for even 24-48 hours, you start weakening. he was receiving a lot of sedation, before. he is still not fully waking up from that. so his brain is not where it normally is, yet. >> but he's improving? or it's hard to tell? >> he is off the ventilator, he's improved. but that doesn't mean he's out of the woods, yet. he is still very critical. and as you can see, the nurse is trying to interact with him, and he is not able to fully respond, yet.init he is so debilitated now, we don't know if he will ever get back to being the grandpa that he used to be. >> make sure he knows where he is, why he is here. she is asking him questions. she is, as you can see, looking at the monitor, making sure his oxygen level is staying all right, his heart rate, his blood pressure. >> he was on the ventilator for 12 days. we just ex-tubated him. 10/19. >> oh, he came from south dakota. >> what happens if these cases keep surging? >> i don't know. we'll probably end up using personnel that are not the most experienced in critically-ill patients. we will do our best to -- to be able to supervise those folks and things like that. but -- but nobody wants their -- their loved one to be cared for by somebody who is not a critical-care physician or a critical-care nurse. there is going to be lasting damage t to anybody that's beenn the icu on a ventilator. it may be the lungs. it's, oftentimes, the brain, in a way that maybe even early dementia happens. we don't know a lot about that but this isa one of the side effect effects that,id to me, is a big problem. there is heart issues, that may be long-term. and they may end up being heart failure in a patient that, before, did not have any heart disease. i think they are putting in a midline or a pic line. long longer-term iv. >> he is on a ventilator. >> so, you can see he's got that tube coming out of his mouth. he's got another tube in his nose. that's a feeding tube so we can give him nutrition that way.ti the tube coming out of his mouth, well, the endotracheal tube is in his windpipe. >> how critical is this patient, right now? >> this patient is as critical as one can get. he is on medications, not only for his -- for sedation but, also, to support his blood pressure. he is totally dependent on the ventilator, right now, for his oxygen needs. this patient may or may not survive. >> how difficult is it to see something likefi this? i know you are a health care professional. you've been doing this a long time. but to see this many patients, at once, this critical. >> right. and -- and, you know, we're used to seeing this and we're used to seeing deaths, at times. but it's daily. it's daily that we're -- we're having someone die from this disease and that's what's taking a toll. we're not winning on a lot of these. yes, we o do. we do make some patients better and -- and that's a win and that's what we're all going for. but we realize there's limitations. and there's just so much that we can do. and there are a lot of these patients that aren't surviving. that's hard. that's hard on everyone. >> a lot of these patients that aren't surviving. it's hard on everyone. this reporting from nbc's gabe gutierrez in billings, montana. in one of three icu units they are now using for covid at that particular hospital. 14 patients intubated. 14 covid patients intubated, while gabe was there. this is joey traywick, who works there as a nurse. >> you know, at first, i -- i hesitate to tell you this. but i -- i was the nurse for -- man, sorry -- i was the nurse for the very first patient that passed from covid in our hospital. and i thought i -- i've seen this before. i'm ae nurse. i've been doing this a a long time. i know how much timeee i have. i can tell, by looking at her, how acute this is. l and i'll come back and check on her regularly. at that point, she was moderately lucid. and i came back to the room, at one point, and she had passed. by herself. and i thought, i'm never going to let that happen again. i am never going to let that happen again. it snuck up on me and it surprised me because it's so relentless. and so, 23 patients later, i don't miss it. if i have to stay late after work. if it means coming in on my day off, they're not going to pass alone on my unit again. none of them. i don't enjoy crying. i like to goofball and be funny, right? so, i write smile on my mask so that people know i'm smiling under here. but, it reminds me of the charlie chaplin song, right, smile when your heart isn breaking, even though it's aching, right? you know, that thing where you think, for you,m' going to be strong. i'm going to call your family and i'm going to tell them you're going to be fine because that's all i have for you.u' i'm -- i'm a good nurse. and the nurses that i work with are good nurses but we are broken because we feel like we can't comfort those patients. and i think there's nowhere else on the planet i would rather be. i don't want to be anywhere else. it's killing me, inside. i'm kind of -- i'm broken. i'm broken. and my colleagues are broken. and people say it's not that big a deal. and i want to take them by the collar and say, you don't know what s you're talking about. come see my world for a week. a the family members that are broken and the staff members that are broken. >> that's joey traywick, who works in billings, montana, as a nurse. nbc's news's gabe gutierrez and his crew reporting from billings, montana, for us. where the doctors say they have no idea how they wille handle more death and more illness than they've already got, while cases still rise. where the nurses say they are already broken from so many of their patients dying.en patients being so sick and so many of them dying. and this is what's happening this week. this is what's happening, within the last 48 hours, in real life, on the ground, in this country. the thcountry, in which this president is asking to be re-elected with this closing argument.en >> if you get it, you're going to get better.re you know, our doctors get more money if somebody dies from covid. >> president's closing message on covid is that it's -- it's not really killingt' anyone. it's america's greedy doctors and greed y nurses, who are faking all the covid deaths that aren't real covid deaths, and they are faking it for money that goes in their pockets. the ventilators, everything, all this stuff, it's all fake news. he wants his supporters to believe it's all a hoax. that's how he is closing out his re-election campaign. does that work for him? in the closing days of the campaign, does it work? do they buy it? i mean, if that's what he is selling right now that covid isn't really happening? because even in the reddest states in the country, where he is going ton win, you know, by double digits. this is the front page today in st. george, utah. the spectrum and daily news. we neednd help. st. george nurse begs community to wear the mask. this is the deseret news. covid-19 surges in utah. spread is out of control. polling wise, the president's doing okay. this year in iowa. but that's going to be a fight between him and biden. president's telling his supporters covid isn't happening. it's a scam being pulled on us by greedy, american nurses, who are faking the whole thing for money and greedy doctors. here is the front page of the local paper in cedar rapids, iowa. iowa, again, hits record of covid-19 patients. that's the hospitalization graph you there climbing up their front page. ohio, just like iowa, it's going to be a fight between trump and biden in ohio. the front page of the cincinnati paper today. the virus is raging.ru ohio sets a record. in indiana, mike pence's home state where the republican ticket expects no problem at the presidential level. do they believe it in indiana when they say nobody dies from covid? when you get covid, you get better. it just goes, away. it's just the j greedy, scammin nurses and doctors that are faking deaths. do they believe that? orat do they believe the front page of the "indianapolis star" today? what 4,000 deaths looks like as 4,000 indiana residents are now dead from covid. in hard-fought minnesota, see at the top there, the kind of obscuring even the name of the paper. the brainer dispatch. the headline for that story is we were hoping we would never get to this point. it's a point that all school kids in brainerd, minnesota, are going to be sent home for learning. record-breaking new cases thursday forca crow wing county. got record-breaking new cases there. but it's not just crow wing county. it's everywhere. down there, on the lower, left side of the page, the whole state of minnesota reporting record number of cases. kids n having to get pulled outf school because of spiking cases inse that county, new cases in that county skyrocketing. they can barely squeeze on the front page today that a court ruling totallyur polaxed the longstanding -- late absentee ballots must be separated, order.feudges for months, minnesota has been advising its voters, explicitly, in writing, in ads, in all the state's political advice -- excuse me, public advice to voters. that minnesotans should submit their votes as early as they can but -- but as long as they are postmarked by election day, they willpo be accepted until one we after election day. that's what minnesota's been telling its voters, for months. but this report ruling just threw that ruling out, yesterday. because people cast them with the expectation, set by the state, that they would be accepted up until a week later. right? people made their voting plan and, perhaps committed their voteps to a mailbox, under the d rules. nevertheless, two republican-appointed judges just threw that right out. local officials are scrambling, now, to remind voters about what their options still are. first, you can track the progress of your ballot on the website for the minnesota secretary of state. we have that here in massachusetts, too. i have tracked the progress of my ballot as well. you can do that. you can do that in minnesota. you can check to see if it was received and accepted. they are reminding people in minnesota that, if you have put your ballot in the mail and are worried it won't get there in time, you can actually show up on election day, tell the polling placeth you want to spo mail-in ballot and you can vote on election day, in person, instead. minnesota voters got cold cocked by what is actually a shocking ruling from those two conservative judges throwing our their voting rules, at the very last second, when it was too late for people to adjust to the new rules. but in minnesota, you can do what you can do all over the country. voters who still have their ballots at home right now. country, we know that nothing can be trusted to the u.s.ng postal service, at ts late date. it is too late for the mail, at this point. if you have your ballot, bring it in, in person. if you are in minnesota or if you are anywhere. bring it to the drop box, if you can do that. bring it to the clerk's office. bring it to wherever it is you can drop off votes, locally, where you live. if you don't know the details about how that works in your state, you can go to nbc news dot com slash plan your vote and it can help you figure out those details. but, bottom line, trust me. it's simple. don't put your ballot in the mail now. it's too late. bring it in, in person, no matter what state you live in. it's too late for the mail. we are seeing some echoes of 2016, again. npr, today, reporting on the torrent of disinformation and misinformation that's being dumped, specifically, on black and latino voters right now by social media and by text and robocalls. much of it is just pure, unadulterated voter suppression. targeted ads and contacts telling black and latino voters they shouldn't vote, they are better off not voting, at all. there's noer reason to vote. there iss no point to voting. also, spreading wildly false information about the candidates designed to confuse and distract.d the senate intelligence na committee, when they did the report on what russia did in 2016. this is thed actual bipartisan democrats and republicans, together, they documented this exact same thing, four years ago. here is what that report concluded about the kremlin-linked research agency and theirli attack in 2016 to t to help trump. the senate intelligence committee reportse concluded, quote, no single group of americans was targeted by information operatives more than african-americans. by far, race and related issues were the preferred target of the information warfare campaign that was designed to divide the country in 2016. however y widespread those effos were to suppress the vote and target black voters in 2016, however widespread those efforts were in 2016, they're actually worse, right now, this year. ande, targeting latino voters, well ass, african-american vote. meanwhile, this is the headline, tonight, at bloomberg news. reflecting what is apparently theti biggest worry right now f the biden campaign. quote. biden aides see warning signs in black and latino turnout, so far. despite record-early turnout, they lag, bloomberg news, tonight. key states like pennsylvania, arizona, and florida. "politico's" ace florida reporter, mark caputo, quote, we have got to stop the bleeding. democrats sound alarm in miami. particularly worried about the relative share a of ballots cas in south florida by young voters of color. it's friday night. the last day to vote is tuesday. but if you can vote -- vote before then, you should. the president is touring the country with his last rallies on this sort of everybody come out and get covid tour. it's greedy doctors who are lining their own pockets and telli -- while mysterious forces are flooding black and latino voters with toxic, untrue voter suppression misinformation. foreign attackers, again, attacking our election systems. russian state hackers targeted democratic parties in indiana. hitting hospitals with ransomware. that is continuing to happen, in addition to the hospitals we profiled l profiled last night. we also know of a hospital in michigan. the fbi and cyberagency, cisa, at homeland security, tonight, put out another bulletin about hackers from iran hitting voter-registration data. it's a weirdre time. and it is easy to get overwhelmed and to be scared about all these developments. but you know what? i actually find comfort in the fact that the solution to all of it, for us, citizens, is always the same. stayns focused. pay attention. but know that god will grant you the wisdom to know what the things are that you cannot change. what you can do. the solution, in your own life, is the same no matter how overwhelming the news is. the solution is the same and it is simple. get yourti vote in. get it in, in person. whatever volunteering or phone banking you were thinking of doing in your community, you must do it now. make the commitment tonight. start tomorrow morning.ow it's time, right? head down, stay focused. d but also, you know, take heart. i think it is worth being inspired by how big voter turnout is turning out to be, overall. last night, we talked about the fact that texas looks like it might be on track to surpass total 2016 voter turnout just in the early vote. by the time i went to bed last night, that already happened.re looks like it's going to happen in multiple states. don't just game out what it means in terms of who is likely to win and what it means for partisan advantage. think of what that means for us, as a country. all of this worry about having an authoritarian president for the first time with greater authoritarian dreams than he is living out t right now, that we like other countries who have lost theirnt democracies to authoritarian leaders. we would start to believe our democracy is some sort of quaint, outdated thing we don't need anymore. we would rather just have a strong man doju stuff, regardle of theo vote. well, that idea has not carried the day. voting with our feet to show that we care about our democracy enough not to just, you know, feel bad about it being at risk. we care enough about our democracy to believe in it and to use it, right?t, we've got problems in our country. we have i figured out how we wod like togu fix those problems. by voting. and that, itself, is one of our most powerful defenses against those who want us to give our democracy up. or want us to believe that our democracy is outdated. right? take heart from that. i take heart from that. also, i have one more thing to show you. this is a totally nonpartisan thing. it's notnp about either candida. it has not been seen anywhere in public, before right now. but we got a call from the naacp, today, telling us that they had just finished this. h and they are planning on releasing it for just the last few days of the election. and would we please like to show it to the country for the first time? my answer was, yes, please. it's really good. this is a stressful time, i know. but it is an inspiring time, too. which is why this is exactly what i needed to see tonight. watch this. >> this is morgan freeman. i know that many of you are wondering how soon you'll be able to hug your friends again. or visit your parents and grandparents, without fear. i know thatth many of you are angered by the op goingoing racn our nation and worried about having a job to repay your student loans, and afford the basic needs of life. it wasn't long ago that people were beaten, and even killed, to obtain the sacred power each of you have today. the power to vote. and right now, your vote is more critical than ever. this election is about you and me. your family and y my family, ou planet, and our democracy, and its entirety. with our vote, we, the people, can begin to overwhelm the unjust, political and economic systems that favor profits over people. and elect leaders who will take us forward. brothers and sisters, go vote. t our lives, quite literally, depend on it. >> that's new, tonight, from the naacp. voiced by morgan freeman. that's exactly what i needed tonight. first time it's been seen, anywhere. former attorney general eric holder joins us live, next.rm su! when i started cobra kai, the lack of control over my business made me a little intense. but now i practice a different philosophy. quickbooks helps me get paid, manage cash flow, and run payroll. and now i'm back on top... with koala kai. hey! more mercy. save over 30 hours a month with intuit quickbooks. the easy way to a happier business. if sttry new align digestivetive issuede-stress. it combines align's probiotic with ashwagandha to help soothe occasional digestive upsets, plus stress that can make them worse. align digestive de-stress. from the pros in digestive health. fine jewelry for occasions. we say: forget occasions. (snap) fine jewelry for every day, minus the traditional markups. ♪ it's time you make the rules. minus the traditional markups. so join the 2 million people who have switched to xfinity mobile. you can choose from the latest phones or bring your own device and choose the amount of data that's right for you to save even more. and you'll get 5g at no extra cost. all on the most reliable network. so choose a data option that's right for you. get 5g included and save up to $400 dollars a year on the network rated #1 in customer satisfaction. it's your wireless. your rules. only with xfinity mobile. there is breaking news, tonight. just in the past few minutes, according to the count by nbc news, we have set another single-day record in the country in terms of new covid-19 cases. more than 98,500 cases were reported today. this is the most cases the united states has ever seen in a single day. i also need to tell you it's the fifth time we have set a daily case record since last week. before this week, we had never been above 80,000 cases a day. then, we hit 90,000 cases a day. and now, this. after the terrible spring, right, you remember the apocalyptic scenes. in april, we thought america had hit its peak, and was now flattening the curve. even at the worst of it then, the highest number of daily cases was 40,000 a day. now, we are at almost 100,000, in one day. joining us, now, for the interview is former attorney general, eric holder. it's an honor to have you here. >> thanks for having me, rachel. >> let me ask you, big picture, i feel like you are one of the calmer public servants, highly-accomplished public servants i have ever known in my life. both, with it taking off like a r runaway train right now and also uncertainty with what's going to happen for the election. how are you thing about those right now? and how should americans be thinking about those two twin worries? >> this can be an extremely frightening time. what i hold onto is history. we have, as americans, as a nation, faced tough situations, before. and when we pulled together, we have gotten through them. i also know that we, individual americans, we have the cure for all that ails us and that is the power of the vote. that, which people died and sacrificed, to get to us has to be used between now and tuesday to end the corruption, to end the incompetence. to put us in a -- in a better place. and i have faith, you know, in the american people. and i think our systems, when manned by good people, can bring us through. so that's -- that's what i hold onto, my knowledge of the past and ability to shape the future through through the vote. >> we are going to be speaking investigative journalist later on this hour, general holder. and he's just written a piece sourced deeply with a number of current-serving trump administration officials and people who served high levels in the administration. sharing their candid worries that the president might do unimaginable things, over the next few days. not just declare victory but try to, you know, stoke confrontations that could justify him putting troops in the streets. like, really apocalyptic worries that apparently are not the only things keeping americans up at night, it's keeping up at night people who work in the administration right now. how do you think of those potentials as we get closer and closer? >> any time i said to myself, this president couldn't possible do that, he then does it. so i think we have to prepare for things that are unimaginable, you know, four or five years ago. and what i am confident is there are lawyers staged and ready to get into court in order to deal with things that can be dealt with through our court system. i have been on the phone talking to governors who are prepared to do the appropriate things within their states to maintain order. and to make sure that this election is conducted in a fair way. but i, also, think it's going to require the vigilance of the american people. and we're going to have to be heard. we can't think that we can simply rely on our leaders to do things. we have to, by voting, by being visible, by being parts of advocacy groups. make our -- make our desires known. make our dissatisfaction known. and make sure that people understand that there will be an electoral consequence for people who don't stand up for the american democracy. one of the things i think's very disheartening to me. you talk about all these things that the president's potentially going to do, where are the republican voices? where are the republican voices that say we will not stand with him, we will not put up with this? you know, i'm hearing silence, as votes are being suppressed. t as the postal service is being crippled. as these crazy lawsuits are being filed not to count votes that have already been cast. we need to hear from republicans what this president is doing is inconsistent with how we want our party to be viewed. >> are you worried about your successor at the justice department, william barr, and any potential role that he may choose to put the justice department in, as we head into these final days? there's been concerns that he suspended justice department policies on taking publicly viewable steps. you, as attorney general, enforced, among lots of others. he suspended those rules which made people worry he might take actions, essentially, to use criminal law or intimidation factor that can attend to the justice department's actions as a way to try to push things in the president's way. >> yeah. i mean, it pains me to say that but i am worried about what this attorney general will do with the power that he has. you know, going against that justice department policy about not taking actions close to an election has already been done away with. he suspended, you know, that policy. u.s. attorney in philadelphia, i understand, is in the process, again, doing something inconsistent with that policy that's always been in effect. this attorney general has talked about the ability of foreign nations to corrupt our electoral process. and then, when pressed, says, well, i don't have any -- any proof of that. but that's common sense. you know, that's not what a responsible attorney general would say. and if you look at his history. everything, you know, from mischaracterizing the mueller report, protect the president from people who might have information that would harm the president. i'm not sure what the limits are with regard to what this attorney general will do to serve the interests of the president who -- who appointed him. i am very worried about that. >> have to ask you one, last question. i don't know if you'll answer this or not but who do you think's going to win? >> i think that joe biden is going to win. i'm -- my hope will be that the -- that the -- the victory will be decisive enough so that we don't have to go through a lot of these nightmare scenarios. but i also don't want people getting -- buying into this notion that he has to win, you know, by some extraordinary margin. he only needs to get 270 electoral votes. the rules have not changed. doesn't have to get 300. doesn't have to win 60% of the vote. he will, then, be the dually elected president of the united states. in spite of all the impediments that have been placed in front of them, american people have said we're going to decide this election. we're not going to let partisan people in state governments and in the federal government keep us away from the decision that -- that is only ours. and so, i'm confident the american people are going to elect joe biden and kamala harris. >> former attorney general, eric holder, sir, it's a real honor to have you here. nice to see you. thanks for being with us tonight. >> we got much more ahead, tonight. stay with us. stay with us abreva can get you back to being you in just 2 and a half days. be kinder to yourself and tougher on your cold sores. i think you mean the new alexa. it's a buick. it's an alexa. check it out. alexa, turn on the outdoor lights. ok. that's cool, but i'm pretty sure it's a buick. clearly an alexa. alexa, get directions to the 8-18 grill. getting directions. it's a buick. the first-ever encore gx, available with alexa built-in. nice buick. it's an alexa. now get nearly 3,300 purchase cash on the 2020 encore gx. ask: alexa, tell me about buick suv's latonight, silence it with newd byzzzquil night pain. because pain should never get in the way of a restful night's sleep. new zzzquil night pain. silence pain, sleep soundly. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ life doesn't stop for a cold. 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[woman] honey that's why there's new dayquil severe honey. it's maximum strength cold and flu medicine with soothing honey-licious taste. dayquil honey. the daytime coughing, aching, stuffy head, fever, power through your day medicine. and i quote. no matter how the votes split, there is an expectation among officials that mr. trump will claim some kind of victory on november 4th. even if it's a victory he claims was hijacked by fraud. if the streets then fill with enraged people, he can then turn a peaceful krocrowd into a sea mayhem. if the krocrowds were sufficien large and volatile, he could justify responding with federal powers to order. quote, we have been talking to state and local counterparts and gearing up for the expectation that it's going to be a significant law enforcement challenge for probably weeks or months. quote, it feels pretty terrifying. bracing in "the new york times" today from deeply sourced deeply-acclaimed investigative journalist, today. just for a reality check, here is how he describes sources for that scary reporting. i spent the last month interviewing some two dozen officials and aides. several of whom are still serving in the trump administration. the central sources in this story are or were senior officials mainly in jobs. joining us now, tron, it's really, really nice to see you. it's been a long time, my friend. >> it's good to see you, rachel. >> you wrote that you can't know the motives that all these people had for speaking to you today. but what they told you, not just about what they are worried about but what they are prepa preparing for is stark and worrying. what is your sense of why they wanted you to know this? >> well, it's interesting because, you know, these are public servants in all parts of the government. and they hear what's happening on high in the white house. and they want the american people to know that they are trying to do everything they can possibly do to avoid mayhem. you know, they are doing their job, assessing threating. and at the same time, they are realizing the number-one threat is in the white house and what that person will do, which is t the giant question mark they are trying to figure out. so that is a terrible bind for a public servant to be in. and we're working around the clock to try and make sure the democratic process can carry forward, as intended and as it's meant to. though, we are basically battling our own president. >> ron, one of the things that comes through in your reporting is the sense that the fbi might be a little bit of an anchor here? which seems like a strange thing to hope for in a democracy, especially because it's the least transparent organization that we've got that's not called the cia. the -- is -- is -- are your sources telling you that because they are trying trying to buck up the fbi so that the fbi cannot be misused if the president wants to? or did you get the sense that they're reflecting a reality at the fbi that the fbi won't allow itself to be used by this president in an improper way no matter what they might be hearing from the justice department? >> rachel, the fbi was under siege. they're calling out. they're saying we are under regular attack. from one side you've got congress wanting every document we have, on the other hand we have the attorney general. remember the fbi is underneath the justice department, the attorney general and they're coming at it from the other direction to give deliverables for the president for political outcomes. in the meantime, they're out there, in fact, in an enormous battle to protect the country. some of them are saying there may be some folks who actually would rather mayhem. mayhem can be productive in this case, depending on your political agenda. if mayhem allows you to suspend the vote, maybe undermine the validity of the in-person voting, for instance. all of a sudden you're starting to see how incentives are colliding in the government. the fbi is waiting for their director, christopher wray, to be fired, and every day when they have to fulfill some requests for some bid of something, evidence to use on fox news this morning or to attack enemies of the president, they're wondering if we don't give it, will our director be fired. so they're under siege. they're holding out. >> ron suskind, the go-to byline for me when it comes to presidents in trouble and presidents pushing us to places we ought to not be in this country. you've done that for previous presidents as well, but this piece in "the new york times" the day after election day is just absolutely stunning. thank you for helping us understand it, ron. appreciate it. >> thank you, rachel. >> all right, we'll be right back. stay wus. with us. back stay wus with us ♪ limu emu & doug you know limu, after all these years it's the ones that got away that haunt me the most. [ squawks ] 'cause you're not like everybody else. that's why liberty mutual customizes your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. what? oh, i said... uh, this is my floor. nooo! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ all right. new polling four days out. fox news has done their final national poll that shows biden's lead over trump narrowing to eight points. north carolina, a new nbc news/marist poll has biden leading trump by six. you gov today has him leading. there's a statistical tie between biden and trump. of course can we trust polls given what we all experienced in 2016? to address that worry at "the new york times," nate cohn keeps up a chart that is the if the polls are as wrong as 2016 chart, which i find very comforting. the columns on the left here, that's the current 2020 polling average in these key states this year. the columns on the right in both cases, that's what the polling average would look like if you adjusted it for the polls being as wrong as they were in 2016. like in pennsylvania, you see biden's leading on average this year by six points in pennsylvania. but if the polls are as wrong as 2016, then biden would still be ahead by two. in florida, biden's average lead right now is three points in the polls, but if the polls are as wrong as they were in 2016 in florida, then biden would be leading by less than one point, which is, you know, florida's m.o. less than one point is the way they do business. what would this mean overall if the election were today? as nate cohn notes, if polling leads translate perfectly to results, then biden would win the electoral college 357-181. but if state polls were as wrong as they were in 2016, then biden would still win, but by a smaller margin. 335-203. that's what the polls say even adjusted for your post-2016 anxiety. four days left. we'll know soon enough. 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