trump's current lead. and later, we could all news some good news. 2023 was filled with. it will take a look. back this is american voices. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> nearly three years after president bottom was foreign as as president, we are still learning new ways donald trump and his allies tried to hold on to power. the attempt to overturn the 2020 election has deep roots, and to preserve our democracy we must have a full understanding of the threats we face. just last, week we learned of another phone call from donald trump urging election officials to reject the will of the american people. that detroit news refutes the cold may just days after the election. on the call, but news outlet reports trump pressured to republican campuses in michigan not to certify the 2020 presidential election. nbc news has not heard or verified the audit reports. president biden won michigan by nearly 155,000 votes and a fair and free election. but for donald trump, accepting defeat, not an option. instead, he discouraged his supporters to show up at -- he encouraged his supporters to show up to the capitol on january 6th, and you know what happened next. a dead insurrection. donald trump's all hands on thick effort to derail american moacy failed but we cannot let down our guard. a new column from the deli piece rates the fact that didn't work should not give us a false sense of security regarding the potential danger that something like this might work the next time. the january 6th capitol riot, you see, it was merely just the loudest, most dramatic symbol of a multi pronged cool down. and trump's attempt to in the system didn't end there. joining me now, fernand amandi -- michael steele and former u.s. attorney christopher matty. it is good to see you, christopher let's start with you. this call between trump and michigan election campus or, is how does it potentially play into jack smith's investigation? >> it's just another example of what we know donald trump was doing all of the country. especially in georgia, where we have already heard the recording. aspect that jack smith was already aware of the coal, may have a recording probably of participants in that coal and front of the grand jury and i expect evidence will be part of the trial. the whole charge here of conspiracy is really vast in scope effort over many months to overturn the election. and when you have someone repeatedly asking what people can violate the law by taking action in service of donald trump rather than the service of their obligations, that's pretty compelling evidence. so it's just one more piece of evidence for jack smith to present to the jury. >> michael, there is another piece of this. during the cold, rnc chair woman ronna mcdaniel chimed, and telling the michigan officials, quote, we will get you attorneys. so, one, given this is a job, you have previously held, and we just quote as to how unusual it would be to suggest, that but how it underscores just how deep trumps coup attempt, how it took hold within the gop as an institution itself. >> it became part of the fabric of the organization. everybody was all in on helping trump survive and election that he clearly. lost the fact of the rnc chair woman was on this call and contributed the way she did, again, shows just how desperate and, you know, unfortunate that entanglement laws. the reality of it is, she shouldn't have been on the call. and should not have offered attorneys to perpetuate, you know, a corrupt process. or at least a process they were trying to corrupt. that reality is, we now see at full circle. all the pieces coming in place, alicia. you've got not just the president of the united states. not just the party officials. but you also have that final piece, which are the election officials themselves who are clearly in the crosshairs of not only that white house but the rnc to undo the choice and the voice of the american people. >> it's amazing. trump targeted election results in detroit, a reliable stronghold for democrats in the state. you take, that layer on the recent reporting from nbc news about all these election fraud vehicles, i'm thinking of your state of florida, they have disproportionately impacted black and latino voters, disproportionately impact the democrats. when you break this political peace saint don't rest on your laurels, don't believe all his efforts to undermine elections and not democracy or things happening in the past. they're afloat right now. it is a danger, fernand, that's on the horizon. >> it's a dangerous not just on the horizon, alicia, it's adventure happening right now. as you mention, throughout history any attempts when you're trying to overthrow legitimately established government, it never really happens and one of. elsewhere there is always fits and starts. we've seen this and not to germany. we've seen it in. russia and elsewhere. as your guests earlier, this is yet another example of what everyone knows. now let's not pretend there was any element and good faith here. i think that's why the courts decisions now become a paramount importance. the problem, however, is you have a court that has become, in its own right, politicized. and in its own right one that is difficult to have trust and confidence. and especially when you have someone like a clarence thomas currently on that court, we know his wife was involved proactively in those january 6th insurrection efforts. there is no sign he's going to recuse himself. and that's why we have this crisis for democracy happening in realtime. if the court decides to come down and say, you know what? trump is free from any crimes, while as president he does have immunity, jack smith case does at the window. and we're in a major problem coming into 2024. >> chris, i want to pick up at the side it with you. friday, the supreme court sidestepped its decision to weigh in on trump's claims of presidential immunity, at least for now. that might also need to respond to the decision from the colorado supreme court that deemed trump ineligible to run for office, at least colorado in. if we zoom out, chris, for a second, what wrote do use the court plan over the next -- i was gonna play a next year, but really at compete the next few, weeks next few months, when it comes to issues that color to the heart or no moxie. >> there is really likely to be freight major issues that come before the court that will shape the presidential election. the first is a case already it's a great to hear. fail consider and obstruction charge that jack smith has brought against trump and against hundreds of other rioters at the capitol, whether or not that applies to this type of conduct. that could affect whether or not at least the obstruction piece of the jack smith indictment against trump goes forward. they're also likely to hear an appeal of the supreme court decision finds out trump had engaged in insurrection and is therefore part of being on the ballot in colorado for president. donald trump has yet to appeal that. there is some risk and him appealing it because if the supreme court decides against, temp meant that game set match for him. it will not appear on any ballot and any state. so he may be close to considering whether to appeal that, although i expect he will. and finally, this issue of presidential immunity. right now, donald trump is appealing before the d.c. circuit court of appeals. his position is that he's immune from any prosecution for crimes he committed while president, even though he has not been charged after leaving office. the trial judge thought that was ridiculous argument. one that would apply to kings not presidents. and the d.c. circuit court of appeals is likely to agree. and then donald trump would have the ability to appeal that to united states the supreme court. silva united states supreme court look not have to take. it and i think the effect of the supreme court not fast-tracking this appeal is likely to delay the trial a matter of weeks. if the supreme court ends up taking that appeal, and does not deal with it expeditiously. you can see that direct on quite a bit further. >> michael, we're talking about a duality here, which is, this moment is testing the supreme court. but that testing of supreme court the is also testing our nation, our faith in that court. our trust in that court. our trust in institutions grip large. >> that's an excellent point, alicia. because this is a space that the chief justice, roberts, did not want the court to be. and it did not want to be caught in the cross heroes of political factions across the country who expect the court, literally expect the court, to do a thing a certain way. have a certain outcome. which, you know, takes out of the mix and a consideration of jurisprudence, the rule of law, the constitution. so now you've got these political battle lines that have been drawn. and so when you're looking at the colorado case, for example, i think the chief justice roberts position will likely fall along the lines of, don't touch it now, let it go. it's one state that has made this decision. there are others in the pipeline. so let's see how this plays out. because it takes a little bit of the air out of the pressure to decide based solely on colorado, as opposed to seven or eight other states that may have a patchwork of decisions on this or lane and one particular direction, like colorado. so i think roberts is going to be looking on both these cases, the one the supreme court is already decided with respect to the acceleration, and now the colorado case, to sort of slow that momentum, politically, to give the court a little bit of breathing room. as they say on the straight, good luck with that. >> fernand, what is implied in all of this is the timeline. the fact this is going to bump up against an incredibly consequential election. you have president biden this week saying it is, quote, self evident that donald trump is an insurrectionist. those comments come off the colorado court ruled trump did engage engage an insurrection. if your team biden, -- calling a spade a spade, at the same time being very aware of the inevitability of trump saying your politicizing the courts. >> look, in a nutshell, you do what team biden is to win. that silver lining, if you will, of this constitutional crisis moment we find ourselves, and where a court may or may not roll in that way what the constitution applies to, is that it continues to frame this election. so long as donald trump looks like he's not likely republican nominee, of a choice. a choice that team biden absolutely wants to make the election around. a choice to continue the 246 year experiment, alicia, and american democracy, which is what the bottom candidacy and bottone presidency represent. or the ending of all that and move him to an authoritarian, potentially fascist dictatorship. again, the words trump himself has used, not once, but on two occasions, he plans on being a dictator from day one. if team biden can't use all this chatter around the trial and have that be the frame. alicia, there is no way they lose the election. poll after poll i've seen, others have done, saying americans do not want a dictatorship, they do not want a fascist democracy. that might be what wing of maggot once but it's certainly not what the american electorate at large ones. so i think biden is steady as she goes. this against the backdrop of what is a fantastic set of news coming out along the economic indicators. i think bottoms and a wonderful spot going into next year. >> christopher mattei we, thanks for being with us and getting us started. fernand and michael are sticking with us next. as trump has a busy schedule, the iowa caucuses or months away. he's the clear front runner. things are about to get interesting in the hawkeye state. plus, how voters respond to the former presidents new pensions to quotes hitler remains to be seen. what history 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just to mix it up. somebody cause that numbers say very much exactly where this thing is going to go ultimately. the people here want trump. and i think the more we come to grips with that, alicia, the better i think democrats and independent voters and republicans like myself can't be focused on how you push back against what could be a fascist republican administration coming into play. not my words, donald trump's words, by the way. he said, i'm going to be a dictator, even for a day. hey takes that for one day, you think he's going to give it up one day too? hell no. everyone needs to stop pretending and understand exactly, a lot of people want this and that was more troubling but anything else for me. >> for an, and to that point, to stop pretending. nikki haley was confronted by an eye voter on this question of trump, just this week. i want you to take a listen to that exchange. we'll talk about it on the other side. >> i don't know what to do what the fact that, to me, our former president is just a grave danger to the country and to the christian church. so what i want to support you, i also want to hear from you that you also think there's a danger here and that this is the way to stop this from happening. >> i wouldn't be running if i didn't think that he's not the right person at the right time. i have said multiple times, i don't think it's good for the country. for donald trump to become president again. i've made it very clear. >> sounds like a little bit of trying to have her trump and ate it too. not being willing to reckon with what michael said. the voters want him and how to you tackle that question? >> that's a pretty impressive high-wire attempt and sink their by nikki haley. -- look, alicia, let's be clear here. one thing if it does still have to happen, i know we're all kind of corinn trump and expecting that biden trump rematch. voters still have to weigh in. and if iowa has shut us anything, especially on the republican side, it loves a surprise. it's also not necessarily predictive of who that republican nominee is coming. you heard michael steele say that. i love michael, but he's also painting this picture where the expectations are so high for donald trump, he's almost a victim of his own success. anything less than double digit wipe out, where he wins by 20 or 30 points, in iowa, would be a little bit of an eye racer. and if god forbid for trump, if nikki haley is within single digits or if it's a lot closer, more of an upset happens, then the whole thing collapses because the other economic taking place is that if you look at polls, police, get nikki haley's movement like a speeding bullet in the state of new hampshire. and a bed showing in iowa, a bad result in new hampshire would be very, very, very problematic for donald trump. >> michael steele, that analysis. the possibility. i do think there's some truth to the fact that, one, donald trump has tried to portray himself as an inevitability. that is part of what we see all the time -- i do understand also reading these numbers it would seem it is more or less an inevitability. but is there a possible alternate reality where nikki haley, let's say someone drops out, they support nikki haley. play it out for me. >> no, i think fernand got it exactly right. i don't disagree with us analysis there. on the flip side of everything whisk, right there is this potential from -- momentum. here is the. rub what do you think donald trump does when men to shift away from him? do you think he all of a sudden says to nikki, oh,, damik a, you just beat me in iowa and new hampshire. here is my organization, all my money, let me help you become the first female president of the united states. that is just not happening. the whole thing blows up and in that moment, what it looks like donald trump is sliding away from becoming the nomination, mark me on this. he decides, in his own sick little, wait to start talking and saying interesting nice things about, guess who, joe biden. because that's how trump plays. he will play that and against the other side in a way that we just would not expect. and people didn't understand. he's already done that. i'm not saying we haven't witnessed from him in the. passed you just need to put in the proper context, and run away from what we're dealing with. this is a danger to the country and himself. in that regard. and he doesn't care about that lost part or i. part so game on. >> for an, and i've only got about 60 seconds left. there is more that will be able to get to such a second. we keep coming back to this core idea, donald trump's remarks where he claims emigrants or poisoning the blood of his country. or we can talk about what it means there are so many people who are receptive to that, including a lot of folks in iowa and every simple. site it actually makes me want to vote for him. those are republican caucus goers. that seems like the bigger problem. >> it is the problem. i hate to say it but there are americans right now who want to burn it all down. they want to end this 246 year experiment of freedom that has become the most powerful country, powerful autonomy, most powerful military in human history. for them, it's not enough. they want the chaos. they believe in what donald trump represents. and trump is every day pouring gasoline on those feelings, soaking those feelings of grievance, of sublimated racism, of the demographic changes happening in the country. it's disgusting, but to pretend it's not happen, it to prevent or is not a sick, twisted version of the american psyche that is actually proactively say, we want more of, this is to not really. i think that what we need to think about after the election, where hopefully a democracy is maintained and joe biden is reelected. but on those numbers, they're substantial -- >> fernand amandi, michael steele, think about. and a reminder, a sense i have michael here, you can catch the two of us as well as simone sanders townsend, you can catch us on our new show, it premier is such a general 14th at eight i am -- still to come, to lee with a look at the culture wars of the past year. and later, michael beschloss on the -- what history contagious about the year that was. and the year to come. and the year to come [dog barks] no it's just a bunny! only pay for what you need. ♪liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty.♪ there's something going around the gordon home. good thing gertrude found delsym. now what's going around is 12-hour cough relief. and the giggles. the family that takes delsym together, feels better together. inez, let me ask you, you're using head and shoulders, right? 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(crowd cheers) sore throat got your tongue? mucinex instasoothe sore throat medicated drops. uniquely formulated for rapid relief that lasts and lasts. that's my babyyy! -ow! get mucinex instasoothe. it's comeback season. i've never been healthier. shingles doesn't care. but shingrix protects. proven over 90% effective, shingrix is a vaccine used to prevent shingles in adults 50 years and older. shingrix does not protect everyone and is not for those with severe allergic reactions to its ingredients or to a previous dose. an increased risk of guillain-barré syndrome was observed after getting shingrix. fainting can also happen. the most common side effects are pain, redness and swelling at the injection site, muscle pain, tiredness, headache, shivering, fever, and upset stomach. ask your doctor or pharmacist about shingrix today. and the posture, we have witnessed the ongoing experiment of american democracy unlike anything we've seen before. conservative attacks and state level restrictions challenge long float gains versus the president. gains that had come part of who we are and moved our country forward. and is nbc's jermaine lay takes a look back on a here america seems to be at war with itself. >> reporter: and 2023, america seemed to be at war with itself. with bad lines drawn over hard-fought legal gains, long protected by president, now facing a fresh round of conservative attack. court challenges and state level restrictions. >> 36 states have introduced 130 zipping bills to restrict touching off right, gender, and history -- >> reporter: on the front lines, public school classrooms, libraries -- >> organizations like the american library association or try can more book bans than ever -- >> reporter: school bookshelves -- >> amanda gorman says she was gutted to learn florida school had restricted some of its youngest students from writing the palm she famously spotted a president biden's inauguration. >> reporter: from a fight over whose history and its toll and how. >> -- ron desantis rejection of an advanced placement american studies class. >> we want education, not indoctrination. >> there is no way of touching history without having the emotional aspect -- >> reporter: history making decisions from the nation's highest court, effectively banning rice based college admissions. >> scrapping decades of precedent -- >> reporter: -- frenzy over whether america's pledge to make good on its promises of equality for all has been fully extended to its most marginalized citizens. >> justice jackson writing, with let them a tech obliviousness, that majority post the record and announces color blindness for all that legal salina. >> just off campus, a clash between pro israel students and a proud pulisic and group. >> reporter: as laura raged in the middle east, college campuses and america became battlegrounds as well, was the boundary between free speech and hate speech became trains lines. >> the answer is yes, that calling for the genocide of jews violates harvard code of conduct, correct? >> it depends on the context -- >> it does not depend on the context. the answer is yes, and this is what you should was. on >> reporter: university professors were tested before congress and that nation. >> university of pennsylvania president elizabeth mcgill resigned over the weekend. >> the embattled president of harvard is staying, at least right now. >> at right tonight at nashville, in reaction to republican-led efforts to expel three democratic lawmakers from the state litter. >> the spread to the floors of americas state houses, civil rights like free speech were checked. with the ouster of rising political star was accused of breaking the quorum while fighting for gun reform. >> this sets very dangerous precedent for the nation, other states will follow. >> reporter: the conservative clampdown wouldn't just tighten its grip on those who represent the progressive body politic, but those whose -- become political. >> tennessee will become the first state to implement law restricting drag performances and public or at least and they were a child might say them. at least 14 other states have similar bills and progress. >> reporter: and mounting challenges -- women's health care. >> forced me to continue the program, deep pain and suffering, i think it's cruel. >> as long as i and governor of the great state of texas, texas will always protect the unborn. >> reporter: but this war over american political ideals, people power is flexed in the streets and at the polls. we are in the courts, ground is lost and ground is again. >> the lgbtq community wins a court battle. the u.s. district judge in tennessee james the act that would criminalize some direct performances and unconstitutional restriction. >> the high court today reaffirm a key part of the voting rights act, aimed at preventing race discrimination. >> reporter: people standing up, shouting back, marching, voting. >> abortion access is the law of that land in ohio. >> reporter: fighting for freedom, for power. for respect. >> former tennessee lawmaker justin jones back to the state house, just days after his expulsion. >> this is what justice looks like, this is what democracy looks like. >> that was msnbc's jermaine like reporting. coming, up historian michael beschloss on donald trump's rhetoric -- and how he reportedly wants to double down. double down. - bye, bye cough. - later chest congestion. hello 12 hours of relief. 12 hours!! not coughing? hashtag still not coughing?! mucinex dm gives you 12 hours of relief from chest congestion and any type of cough, day or night. mucinex dm. it's comeback season. trump's various legal woes are not the only thing making headlines this. week the former president has struck me up which offer committee really reminiscent of those met by end of hitler. trump sit immigrants or poised and the blood of our country. almost the exact same words hitler used last century to rationalize genocide against jews. the biden campaign says this is not a coincidence. just last month, the former president referred to his political opponents as vermont and said they pose a greater threat to our nation that foreign adversaries. that reporting, trump used to keep a copy of hitler's debate just by his bedside. trump said, i'm not a student of hitler, i never read his works. joining me now the one and only michael beschloss. the republican front runner for the presidential election, parroting hit war on both one election. i was concerned with what that means about donald trump that i am with the fact there are so many americans who don't seem to find that to be a deal breaker. >> i totally agree with you. think of any time in modern history when a front runner for that republican presidential nomination, let alone someone who already served as president, used language that is obviously taken out of mein kampf, written by hitler when he was in prison in 1924, and by the way hitler was in prison for trying an insurrection against the democracy of germany, incidentally. and the other the, you were reporting earlier in this program, which shocked me to the shoes. in iowa, our nbc poll said 42% said such language would make caucus goers on the republican side more likely to support trump. 28% said it didn't matter. that's 70% saying this is no big deal. this is a change. ten years ago, if a republican front runner for a president said such a thing, other republican leaders and including his rivals would denounce him. now, stony silence including from nikki haley as you just mentioned. >> you know i never quibble with your verbiage but i am in this case. you said, he wrote that while in jail. hitler wrote that while in jail for heaven stage and insurrection was incidental. i would say it's anything but incidental. it goes to the core of what you are driving at. yes, -- the comments are xenophobic, racist. at the core of it is the idea that a democracy is something that can be undermined, that authoritarianism is made way for by this type of hateful rhetoric. >> i have got a little audio trouble. is it possible we could check that and come back to what? >> absolutely. if you can hear me at all, i'm going to re-post the question one more time to see if you can't. but your face tells me, perhaps you cannot. my point is, you can look at these comments on their face and it may say it's about xenophobia, it might seem it's about racism. as you well know, with heard these comments from donald trump before. i think, unfortunately, i have lost michael beschloss. or at least lost michael beschloss audit which is a shame because i am very committed to committing -- continue this conversation again, nbc's presidential historian michael beschloss. we'll try to get him back on the other side. but next, since it's easy to get -- in this world wind of chaos, everything we were just talking about. we're going to show you some stories that might put a smile on your face. stay with us. stay with us 5% apy? that's new! yup, that's how you business differently. okay everyone, our mission is to provide complete, balanced nutrition for strength and energy. yay - woo hoo! ensure, with 27 vitamins and minerals, nutrients for immune health. and ensure complete with 30 grams of protein. 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(♪♪) i've been maintaining. the weight is gone and it's never coming back. with golo, i've not only kept off the weight but i'm happier, i'm healthier, and i have a new lease on life. golo is the only thing that will let you lose weight and keep it off. who loses 138 pounds in nine months? i did! golo's a lifestyle change and you make the change and it stays off. >> reporter: this past year was (soft music) heavy between wars, retribution politics, and divided society. hopeless hard to come by in 2023, but there was some. nbc's jose díaz-balart and kate snow looks at some reasons for optimism as we head into 2024. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> reporter: this, year there were so many special moments that united us during tough times. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> reporter: and north carolina, cheers for beloved elementary school assist and jordan feler battling breast cancer. [applause] what's the message you want to convey to them you? they were all behind her 100%. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> reporter: there were so many gestures of supporting illnesses -- he [inaudible] ♪ ♪ ♪ >> reporter: for friends, mothers, and brothers. treadwell, handle it with care. it is special. >> reporter: we were there when leah osmond met jason summers, he's in the man who received the heart donated from lee's late son. i wondered what it was like when you put your head to his chest and listened. [inaudible] it was just an amazing happy moment for everybody. congratulations. you got a good heart. thank you so much. ♪ ♪ ♪ oh my god, i got in! >> reporter: we saw hard work pay off. [screaming] >> reporter: students finding out they got into college. i'm in! >> reporter: and passing important exams. [applause] >> reporter: student athletes were winning two. celebrating after finding out they are in full scholarships. we're gonna pay for the rest of his school, you have no more bills. >> reporter: we also honored our nations heroes. one mom >> translator: mommy! >> reporter: once again, in the arms of loved ones after months overseas. what's up guys? how are you? i missed you. >> reporter: at this country music concert, army sergeant jeff dole v stunned his wife shannon. was it like almost like time was going 100 miles an hour and frozen at the same time? yes, yep. and i was like, are you here right now and this is happening? we will look back to that moment for the rest of our lives. yes. >> reporter: we also saw how much educators make a difference. ayman mckinley won the philadelphia student teachers award. that meant everything, it was the culmination of 35 years of blood, sweat, and tears. >> reporter: in michigan -- and you are amazing. i love. you thank you so much. >> reporter: tears flowed wendy's middle school teachers read letters of gratitude to their students. can i give you a hug? yes! you light up our classroom with your kindness under gonna make a the world a better place. so -- >> reporter: what is it about amaya that you wanted to recognize? her leadership, she's shown me that she [inaudible] >> reporter: often it was our nations young people who showed us the way. in south carolina, high school basketball manager carson has down syndrome made at this epic shot. if we can open our hearts and open our minds to people who may not look like us or may not act like, us or may not look seem like a, as we could learn something from them. why no -- >> reporter: one this college softball player collapsed herman injury ball wrapping the bases, the other team lifted her up, carrying her all the way to the home base. at the, point competition, win, lose it didn't matter. we needed to step in and help someone. >> reporter: talk about the power of perseverance. that is hannah huntley using every last bit of strength, determined to finish this race after an accident left her paralyzed. the moment of crossing the finish line, i had to earn it. i'll be living that moment for the rest of my life. >> reporter: moments of personal triumph. and connection. >> reporter: lifting us up. all year long. ♪ ♪ ♪ [applause] >> reporter: our thanks to kate snow and josé diaz lard for that report. that's all the time i have today and this weekend. i'm alicia menendez, be sure to follow this show across social media. our handle is at alicia on msnbc. i will see you at american voices, and for now i handed over to my colleague ayman wilkie dean. i hope you have a safe and happy holiday. hello, amen. and>> reporter: hello, alicia,y friend, it's good to see you as always. enjoy the rest of your evening. good evening to, you welcome to ayman tonight. the supreme court and its outsized influence on the 2024 election as we enter the most consequential presidential election of our lives. the conservative