When i first started golo and taking release, my cravings, they went away. And i was so surprised. You feel that your body is working and functioning the way it should be and you feel energized. Golo has improved my life in so many ways. Im able to stand and actually make dinner. Im able to clean my house. Im able to do just simple tasks that a lot of people call simple, but when youre extremely heavy theyre not so simple. Golo is real and when you take release looking at home, i am alicia and follow the plan, it works. But mendes. We are broken is to begin with tonight. Police in texas on the scene of an active shooter at a mile north of dallas. Reports began coming in about 30 minutes ago. Since then, we have seen an active scene at the allen prime outlets, again, just north of dallas. Little information to report at this moment but police are on the scene, and they are investigating. Were told the atf is also on the scene as we learn more, we will bring it to you. And other news tonight, 16 defendants found guilty this week. The question before us now, will these high Profile Convictions do anything to deter the ongoing rise of right nationalism and rightwing militias that theyre in our democracy . This week, four members of the proud boys, the farright group at the center of the capital insurrection, were convicted on conspiracy charges. Among them, the group chairman, enrique tarrio. To be clear, he was found guilty of making a premeditated plan to overthrow or destroy the u. S. Government by force. These defendants now await sentencing, it could face up to 20 years in prison. But on friday, a federal judge also ended on the longest sentience yet for a general six defended. Peter shorts will now serve more than 14 years. You might recognize him from being the first to throw a Folding Chair of police officer. We also are awaiting sentencing for stewart rhodes, founder of the oath keepers. The doj seeking a 25 year sentence for his conviction of Seditious Conspiracy. Joining me now, Nbc National Security analyst Frank Figliuzzi, the author of the fbi way, inside the bureaus code of excellence. Also with us, msnbc legal analysts lisa rubin. Lisa, when oath keepers were convicted on similar charges last year, the Washington Post ran a headline i want to show you. It says, right wing white men are not usually convicted of Seditious Conspiracy, which highlights the significance of these newest convictions. Not that you have the leader of the proud boys convicted alongside several members of the group, what message does that send legally speaking to other white extremists . It sends a really harsh message, alicia, two other white extremists. The Washington Posts headline that you just quoted that set white men are not usually convicted of Seditious Conspiracy people and general are not usually convicted of Seditious Conspiracy. Its a statute that has been used very rarely and successfully to prosecute crimes for this. The fact that this is the third trial in which the department of justice has held white nationalists accountable for their actions on january six should have people standing up in attention in terms of thinking about their future conduct, as well as folks who have not been held accountable for the conduct on january six. This suggests that the most serious of charges can stick, even after a 15week trial, which jurors attentions were certainly dry. Well talk about those in a minute. Frank, you have these ongoing trials related to the insurrection, and yet, you still have the proud boys showing up at abortion clinics, showing up at hospitals, other public spaces with assault rifles. I wonder, because i come to you to sober things up, you think the outcomes of these trials actually deter these groups . This is a great question and one we can actually talk about from an intelligence perspective and from a historical perspective, we apply the International Terrorism model with alqaeda and i. S. I. S. When you take off leadership, right, and you eliminate the leadership. In this case, with the proud boys were talking about, some of these defendants facing maybe 50 years in prison, maybe taking a last breath with all of the combined charges in the federal prison. That clearly is having a glittering effect. You can look back at the manhattan appearance of donald trump in the hush money case and calling for protests but never generating protests, let alone violence. The chatter among the extremist groups is, hey, i dont want to get arrested. Theres been over a dozen people arrested for generous six. Combined the conspiracy charges with the proud boys and oath keepers, and you have a chilling effect. Heres the problem, theres also a bad outcome here for a reason of caution, and that is a decentralized leadership concern or no leadership concern which makes the task of law horsemen all that much harder, as they try to identify loan operators. For people going local, theres this phrase that we are going local, but under suits, go to the school board meetings, run for office and paid your maga extremists movement there in local movements. The challenge for Law Enforcement is virtually impossible. Lisa, you set in your first answer about others. There is the biggest mother of all, former president donald trump. How might these convictions complicates legal was . I think these convictions certainly involved in the special counsels office to persevere with their investigation. One of the things that i thought was interesting about this trial was that prosecutors made the point that this was no spontaneous uprising. These werent people who were just sort of motivated to violence and a random and spontaneous way, but that this was part of a plan. Then you have to ask yourself, who is on the other side of that plan . Who engage in that plant with them . Who motivated them to violence, if not in a spontaneous way but one that was well orchestrated over a number of weeks. The answer to that is donald trump and others in his inner circle. I think if i am jacks mitt, i feel very good about the outcome that the department of justice obtained here, and i feel even more secure in the continuation of my investigation on january six, with respect to donald trump and others in his inner most campaign and governance circles. Frank, i want you to take a listen to what a. G. Garland said about the proud boy convictions. Our work will continue. My Senate Confirmation hearing just over a month after january six, i promised that the Justice Department would do everything in its power to hold accountable those responsible for the heinous attack that sought to disrupt a cornerstone of our democracy, the Justice Department will never stop working to defend the democracy to which all americans are entitled. Frank, what does that say to you . You know, what i am hearing their, alicia, that this is not over yet, and we are willing to go anywhere to anybody that is responsible for this. When we look at the proud boys and oath keepers and the thousands of arrests so far, is to say that is the physical violence aspect of what has happened, but there is a whitecollar aspect of what happened. That is what jack smith is looking at. Hes looking at the paper plan, the strategy, the fake electors, the twisting of the arms on the phone call with georgia, all of that is being looked a. What a from garland is that this aint over it. Lisa, frank, or both staying with me. I want to go back to our Breaking News out of texas. Police are on the scene of an active shooter at a mile north of dallas. Reports have been coming in since 5 30, right before we came on air. While we dont know the extent of what is going on, we are told that the atf is investigating an active shooter at the allen prime outlets, just north of dallas. What you are watching, this is a live feed from the scene. Weve seen in the past few minutes people walking out with their hands up, presumably to indicate to authorities outside that they are not a target. Frank, i want to bring you back in here. You and i have sat here many times with as Little Information as we have now and watched a scene like this unfold to the first questions that run through your mind as an intelligence officer. First, we all know this, its early, and we dont know all the facts. I will tell you a few things, first, too early to report what were hearing on Police Scanners but officers are talking to each other. What i am hearing is that it is active, and it could be bad, alicia. We just need to let it play out and get the facts nailed down. Its texas. What is the significance of that . Last number first, texas implemented a new law that you dont need a permit, you dont need a license, you dont need training to carry and purchase a gun. That has put a lot more guns on the streets throughout texas, even the biggest flaw Forsman Organizations in texas came of vocally against the governor and State Legislatures. We dont like this new law. We dont like more concerned the streets. It makes communities less safe, makes the jobs a police less safe. Thats the environment were in, and we have been reporting on all kinds of things that are triggering people towards violence, people pulled in the wrong driveway, getting in the wrong car, knocking on the wrong door. In this environment, something could have set somebody off in a parking lot inside a store. We dont know if it was targeted, random, very early. The only thing we do know is that were experiencing a spike in the number of casualties. The fbi report on active shooters just out within the last couple of weeks, alicia, says that these things are getting more deadly. Theres more body count every time we have an active shooter. Another sliver of information we have, the atf being called in, what does that tell you . Well, its interesting. Its all Hands On Deck when you have these kinds of things. The atf is particular charge with the task of figuring out the role of the gun here. It might mean that the gun has already been found or taken off and offender, in which case, they will immediately start trying to track and trace that gun. Was it acquired lawfully, do they had the identity of the person . Was it reported stolen . There is a myth out there amongst most people, understandably, that there is a Magic Database where atf can take that serial number on the gun, punch in and, lo and behold, come up immediately with whose gun is. It just does not work that way. You know why . There is no such that a base. We dont require all of our can purchases to be entered into a Central Government database. Frank and lisa, youre staying with me. I want to bring into our conversation, Jim Kavanaugh, a retired atf officer and hostage negotiator, also msnbc terrace analysts. Jim, lets look frank, you and i have that year to many times before watching a scene like this one unfold. The fact that it is still an active scene, what does that tell you . Well, they dont have a handle on everything that is going on there quite yet. It looks like they got the forces there. I used to be the assistant special agent in charge of the dallas division. In fact, i lived just a few miles from allen, texas. I am familiar with the small police force and allen. Its in the column county, one of the Color Counties of dallas. Dallas is dallas county. This is collin county. Its a big suburban area. The sprawls go all the way out to allen. Its not hard to tell just exactly what is going on. Everything frank said is exactly right. Atf almost plays a various roles in these, like the fbi does. The basic rule is as investigators, just like fbi special agent, atf special agents, their main mission is almost criminal investigation. Theyre there to investigate, do interviews, help the police, perform their entire police function as needed. They also bring specialties, and the specialties are firearms and explosives. They could bring countries, is rapid gun traces, all kinds of exposes, resources to help locate and eliminate explosives. The fbi has a lot of this stuff to. The state police do to, other Police Agencies do to. You overlap and help each other, you increase each others abilities in every area of expertise when you have a lot of investigators on hand that can follow all the leads, secure buildings, serve Search Warrants, do all kinds of things. Atf is there. No doubt that fbi is there. Allen pd is there. And i am sure that plain old pd, which is a larger pd next to allen. And texas state troopers, dps, Texas Rangers all have a canopy of officers responding. You need them all because you dont know what the situation is right now. I will ask frank to come back and talk about what the correlation between those agencies look like. Before i do, jim, one of the other things we know based on this footage is that there were people inside the mall walking out with their hands up. What does that visual signal to you . That is on Scene Commanders trying to evacuate citizens. What theyve tournament is that the area that they are evacuating they, determined that they can be safe. They dont want to walk citizens through an area where they think a gunman will have shot on them or line on them. Officers will be ahead of them towards the more ahead of them, have secured an area where they know its safe to walk them out. They may not have found the gunman inside the mall. They may be searching now to clear the mall, locate, isolate, the shooter. They want to locate and isolate, evacuate behind that, and then eliminate the threat. That there is the shooter or multiple shooters. Eliminating the threat means arrest, surrender or having to shoot him. The on Scene Commanders, what theyre dealing with, alicia, its a chaos situation, and they have to make organization out of it. On the scene, theyll establish on seeing comment right there, and the ranking officers from all of the departments will go to that on scene comment. The captains and lieutenants of lmpd, plain old pd and the agents in charge of atf will go to that place to. That way, they can make decisions on how to deploy forces, what is needed. Look at the shooting that we just saw in atlanta, where the killer left the premises to the four minutes after murdering four others. He immediately skipped the building. Its not unusual. The Parkland Shooter did it as well. Many others have done as well. Sometimes, there is an active shooter or killer, and they commit suicide. Other times, to engage with the police. And other times, they escape. A lot has many means of a grass, so a person cant escape, but the on Scene Commanders, they dont know where the person is. That is their biggest drama, biggest dilemma. The thing at the top of the mind, where is the shooter or shooters . Where are they located . Locate is always the very first thing, even to the point where officers my after step over hundred people to locate the shooter or killer to stop them. For Audience Members that are just joining us, we are watching a report of an active shooter at a mall in allen, texas, north of dallas. Frank, i want to bring you back into the conversation, because we have been talking about the role of atf and fbi. Talk us through how these organizations are coordinating together a moment like this, the questions that they are each responsible for answering. As jim said, were talking about a because of the dallas metroplex. It means a Sophisticated Group of Law Enforcement that has rehearsed and partnered together many times over, sometimes even exercising within this particular mall, perhaps. They are familiar with each other. With regard to the fbi, i let field office, if i let this happen in my territory, i would be rolling out the Violent Crime scott first, have them out there assessing what they need is, what is going on . And if there is a need for more bodies, i would activate the crisis plan and start staging bodies. Id call my squat team leader, put the team on standby, you might be needed. And then i would text or call the chief in that district or town saying, what do you need, or here. If he says, i need help clearing a mall, then the swat team is going. They are going to partner with the other teams. What is the lead question for the fbi . Look, its terrorism. They roll out and their question is, was this committed for domestic or International Terrorism purposes . In which case, they Start Talking about whos got the lead. It is way too early to talk about that, but the question has to be answered. People say, why the fbi . Its not just bodies, not just investigators, its, hey, why did this happen . If it is domestic or International Terrorism or even smells like a, youll see an increased fbi presence. Jim, atf dallas confirming that there are personal on the scene that will release details as soon as they can. Jim, the push and pull here, right, people have a lot of questions. People have a lot of answers. Atf needs to make sure that they get this right. Where are the conversations like happening internally about how much information to release and one . We always gathered the commanders together in situations like this, and we decide, what we will put up to the public, what will help the investigation . Initially, its only what is going to keep the people safe and what will help locate the killer or killers. That is the thing at the top of your mind. Youve got to save lives. That is what your main mission is. If you can put some information out that will help you stop the killer, catch the killer, you put that out immediately. The Public Information officers were gathered to. Theyll be near the commanders, they can put that out to the media quickly, get it out. We havent seen anything from allen pd. We might soon to see where the shooter is or where they think he is . They gave us a description of him, said he was loose, armed and dangerous, could be Something Like that. So, that is what they are doing the. Is what commanders are doing, what were talking, that is what they are doing on scene right now, from all of the police forces. That is what theyre doing, assessing. The swath will get there and i dont know if allen pd as a swath. They are a small pd. They may have a swath. But plano pd as a swat team. They will probably be very close. Of course, fbi, dallas, swat atf has a swat. There are there in dallas, as well. They got plenty of people. The state police have swat, so there are plenty of people. The deal with whatever they got, like frank said, its close at the end of the month of commanders, could be some kind of tears attack. The reason that goal is to be considered is that involve multiple shooters. For people who might live near there or have family or relatives there, the police was a Bay Family Center nearby, usually be a Church Or Public Building or far station or something. They ask people if you have loved ones that worked in the mall, then go to this family center, which maybe a few blocks away. The police will have people there. You can reunite with their loved ones or tell us where they are. I am sure that they were sent that abruptly. Again, if you are joining us, we are following an active shooter situation at the Allan Premium Outlets in allen, texas. Frank, when you talk about what the Intel Community is doing now, the efforts to assess motive, what resources are they drawing upon . So all of this flows from the eyes and ears on the ground right now. What do i mean by the . If there is anything positive about this whole environment is that there are multiple witnesses to this, and there are multiple Security Cameras. Immediately, the police and fbi will start processing the intel coming from interviews. The mastication team set up, usually in agent and Detective Partner together. The police say, what did you see . What did he look like . What did the shooter look like . What did happen . What was the cause . And then pulling the Security Camera from the mall, the stores, close by to where this happened. And you start to develop an identification of if this person is still on the loose, who are we looking for . Is there a car . Does the cameras show him pull up in a car and parking in the law . If that is true, hey, this guy as a green forward, they will find that green forward, and they will surround it. They will bring in bob text to make sure that, this is where jims folks come in, hey, do we have a to come from the vehicle . Then that is happening. If this thing goes on if this is say that give an indication of International Terrorism, lets hope its not, of course, then the fbi is going back to washington and the entire Intel Community and saying, hey, are you hearing anything . You have anything in our intercepts globally, anyone talking about something happening in texas today . All of that going on. Its multiple challenges being faced. Again, early on, the last time i listened to the Police Scanner out there, which was just before we went on air, its sounded still very active to me. All right, both of you are staying with me. I want to bring in Texas Democratic congresswoman, Jasmine Crockett. Congresswoman, as he watched the scene unfold in your home state, what runs through your mind . What runs through my mind is just the failure of leadership, not only in the state and honestly in this country, as it relates to gun prevention, right, and the access to guns. As you know, i was serving in the texas house last session, and that was after the el paso shooting. That was our first Good Opportunity to do something right, and instead, in the state of texas, much like tennessee and georgia and florida, they decided to pass this open carry law and just let anyone and anybody carry, no training, no licensing, no nothing needed. That, to me, only let us to uvalde. Youve all the app and after we passed that legislation. Now, its almost like, you dont know on any given day, where the shooting will be. The question is not if there will be a shooting, its a matter of where that shooting will be. Its really sad that these people continually get elected to office, and the only thing that they are doing is stoking culture wars, instead of fighting the reward that we have, which we have an epidemic as it relates to gun violence in the country. I was struck, congresswoman, as i watch the footage and sat here and watch scenes like this unfold, and you watch people walk out of a place that theyve been to 1 million times, a grocery store, a mom. It will never be the same. They will never be the same, we are still watching any details on who the shooter is. We need details on whether or not there were victims. Do you think we know for certain is that there is now a community that is traumatized but what has some folded today, and that is the damage, congresswoman, that we can never quite quantify. We can never quite wrap our arms around the damage long term damage that is being done to all of our communities. Yeah, i mean, this is what about those things, i think we have more conversations around kind of the trauma of it all, what we Start Talking about the kids, right . Because everyone fully anticipates thatung mind truly is not prepared for this, but to be perfectly honest, no human mind is prepared for the encounters and experiences that we are having right now with gun violence. And are we putting the resources where they really need to be, even once we failed the American People . What are we doing to better their lives going forward. No one even addresses that. We arent really having Mental Health conversations. We arent having conversations about the resources that will be invested into these communities, and no one really spends the time following up on what happens a lot of times to those that were involved. We know that we have eight maxwell frost. We know that this was someone who found their activism sea legs, so to speak. There are always those folks, but then there are the other people that truly never, ever recover. Honestly, i dont know what Recovery Looks like under these types of circumstances anyway. But we have seen that there are people that have been involved with some of these more traumatic situations that really have been left with wounds that never healed. For those of you that are just joining us, we are following an active shooting situation at a texas mall, Allen Premium mall in allen, texas, just north of dallas. We have new images coming in of the crowd that is gathering. Were going to show them to you momentarily. Thats zoomed out there. It strikes me, congresswoman, that this month is the anniversary of uvalde. You had Frank Figliuzzi, when i came to him and said, frank, we watched this happened before, you and i. We sat here with a lot of questions and not a lot of answers there an active shooter situation across the country. Is immediate pivot was that this is texas, and you cant deny defect that this is happening in texas and the number of these stories that have been in texas. I have to imagine for you, as someone who did not just represents texas in the u. S. Congress but who calls this place home, the fact that people across the country say, its texas, the ground has been set for events like this to happen because of the choices that leaders in that state have made. I just do. Here is the reality, when i got a news alert about the shooting, the very first thing that i did was text my mom. On the weekends, my mom loves to go to all the outlets. I had to make sure that my mom was okay. I am an only child. That is not a text i want to send. I dont want to feel that way. I dont feel that most of us want to feel that way. A number of my friends were checking to see if they had friends that were at the mall or at the mall, and we just got to do better. I dont know what it takes because, what we look at the polling, the polling is clear. You can say what you want to about texas but, honestly, as texans, texas as a whole, believed that we should have some sort of gun control. Unfortunately, the people that are being elected over and over there are making the decisions in the state house, they are being elected in these very farright primaries. They dont have real general elections, so youve got extremists, just like we got a very small portion of extremist that exist in the u. S. House, almost the vast majority of the republicans in the texas house are representing this very extreme view. This view that honestly, its not the view at the 30 million texas and we have. A texas relief that they should have a right to access fire arms . They absolutely do. Do they believe that you necessarily need every fire arm that was ever created, probably not. Do they believe that there should be some sort of Red Flag Laws, yes. But they believed that we should be raising the age and who can purchase a firearm, such as an ar to 21 from 18 . They do. But the laws dont follow what the people actually want, and that is the unfortunate part about us not having the federal laws on the books that we need, as it relates to Voting Rights and things like that that the two overrepresentation of extreme views. It is harming the majority of texans. It is harming the majority of this country, to be perfectly honest. This is why we cant push forward in a very bipartisan way with legislation that will save lives by getting more of these guns off of the streets. Congresswoman, you talk about texting your mom, its a text to unfortunately too many of us have sent. I am glad that she is safe. I want to bring back in Frank Figliuzzi. Frank, you can talk about guns and the environment we find ourselves in without talking about the fact that we are actually seeing increased levels of gun ownership. Every year, alicia, the fbi watches the number of Background Checks for Gun Purchases climb and climb and climb. It climbed again last year. People are living in fear that often this actually manufactured by parties that want that fear, that need that fear. Its the gun lobby, the gun industry, certain elected officials who just seemed to live and breathe on the notion of Second Amendment needs. Everyone should be strapped and carrying at all times, because you know what, you dont want to be a victim of a Violent Crime. Even in the cities in places where that does not play out with the data, there are drops in Violent Crime over right now. But yeah, the fear factor is huge. We have a piecemeal approach where states are trying to individually take action. Most recently, the governor of Washington State signing off on bans on ar15s and ensuring that Red Flag Laws are in place. That is great but the problem is, as the congresswoman said, the piecemeal approach doesnt work because youre as weak as the near state that does not do that. Thats where we get these crimes of Crossover Guns and crossover people. So, the federal government needs to have solutions through our elected representatives. The congresswoman sent, hey, elected officials are not listening to their constituents. Ago is step further, did not even listening to Law Enforcement, so when the largest Law Enforcement agents in texas come out and say, we dont like the September 1st Law that is implemented here, where everybody will have a gun with a permanent license and training, that is really stupid. The governor blows the oft, and the State Legislature closed off. We got a problem with a minority of people calling the shots on whether or not that is the culture that underlines all of the same brings us back to what we are watching now, an active shooting a texas mom. Allen premium outlets. Jim kavanaugh, i want to bring it back in and have you watched these images, because as you said to me, there is chaos. The job of Law Enforcement there is to create order, contain that chaos. Talk me through what the Police Department, atf, what the fbi is doing right now to ensure the people who are still on the scene are kept safe . I think theyre doing a real good job. They had evacuated an enormous number of people from the mall. There seems to be a hundreds of people that were on the street to the left of where we see this group of officers here, that they were all moving slowly. I did not see anyone running. Officers were beside them and having control. There are moving people safely away. It appears to be very organized. They know what theyre doing. They have a handle on what their task is. We cant see inside the mall, obviously but inside the mall, officers, tactical officers will be at the point, and they will be sweeping through the mall, trying again. This is the problem that police face. These buildings are huge. When we look at the size of the mall, its a huge, outlet mall. These may have outdoor stores. At the stores face outside, one at the premium mall. Still had to check inside each store this is what i was discussing. You see all the people here, theyve evacuated them to a safe area. They have fire trucks. Notice that the people are behind the fire trucks and ambulances, which the officers have determined is a safe place for them to be. The right side is where the action is. That is where the officers are. Searching for active shooter for dave already located and isolated the crime scene, right here, they have people they believe that these people are not in danger. There are officers out there. You can see the police cruisers, the suvs, or police cars, that is their perimeter. They hope to move people outside to a safe area. It could be beside and behind the fire trucks and ambulances. The work is being done to the right side of the street, and its being done inside. We can see as much of it. It gets tedious, but in the small, we properly see some officers come out from one store to go into another, because it looks like the stores do face outside, maybe hard to see. They will sweep a big store, will have to secure the, put an officer in front and go to the next one. Theyre changing their parameters were officers have areas secured. Right here, this is not an area that they are worried about having gunfire. Theyre just moving to another position here. I think they have to get a handle on the initial chaos that theyre making order of, but theyre still faced with a diligent search because what happened here . Is it going to be somebody fired shots and they all ran away, nobody is injured . Somebody killed multiple people, wounded multiple people, we dont even know what this is. We dont even really have a handle on it. The news feeds today, there was a shooting a residents in california, where six people were shot. Theres another one in mississippi, where i think it was one dead and six people shot, that is both today, in addition to this report. Its, texas is not just texas. Its america no. This is america. We have multiple shootings every single day. Congresswoman, this is america does not have to be america. There is what this means for communities and communities all over the country that have been impacted by gun violence. There is also, i am thinking, as Jim Kavanaugh talks us through what law forsman is being asked to do right now, what this all means for Law Enforcement . The position this constantly puts glow forsman in, where they are responding to this level of threat. I know as a member of the State Legislature, now as a member of u. S. Congress, you have heard about the threats of gun violence not only from activists who want to see greater Gun Safety Legislation Put into place but also from Law Enforcement who say the challenge out there for us is only growing, congresswoman . Yeah, you know, that was a good point that was brought up, is that we heard from throughout the entire state, all Law Enforcement agencies were saying, please do not pass permitless carry. Is going to make our jobs more difficult. This is also the same session that they were passing laws saying that these laws were, quote unquote, back the blue. At the same time, they were ignoring the blue when they were talking to them and telling them why they felt like these were bad moves that they were making. In addition to the, i dont know how its been covered, but just the session so far they are trying to push forward, and it has passed out of the house, a bill that will arm our teachers. Now, just imagine what the scene is like beyond the fact and the teachers are given the resources that they need to pay for pencils, but they are going to make sure that they got pistols. Beyond that, just imagine, if there is an active school shooter, how is it that Law Enforcement is supposed to know that this adult is the adult that was there and was armed as the teacher in the class to protect the class versus the baca . How do you know . It just presidency another issue for chaos because, normally, when you go into that type of setting, you would expect there would be a School Officer there. School officer is in and uniform, that is what he is doing, so i am tired of people such as ted cruz, who is a another one, who kept saying that we would not have had this. He said this in relation to tennessee, i believe. If they would just go ahead and give all the teachers guns, it is the dumbest thing ever. More guns has not solved this issue, oh. We can look at other countries. We can look to europe. The other countries dont have the confidence that we have. Guess what, they dont have the proliferation of guns. They dont worship guns. We need to take a step back and decide that we truly are, quote unquote, pro life and start protecting life, all lives, whether theyre democratic lives, independent lives, republican lives, they should not be a partisan issue because the last time i checked, my practice as a criminal defense attorney, bullets typically dont have a party assigned to them, so we need to start protecting lives and stop playing political games. I am just over it. I really need voters to be over it and start making sure that they hold their elected officials accountable. And if they dont have the courage to save lives that we really need to send them home. Were learning that the president just left church asks for his reaction, saying he has not been briefed. Or bring anything to you as we get a. We do get a tweet from Texas Attorney general ken paxton. I will read that to you. Pray for allen, texas, pray for these families and for a lot enforcement, that they try to apprehend the shooter. Joining me now, kimberly phoenix, a candidate for school board in the Independent School district. That struck me how the congresswoman talking about safety in a classroom. Honestly, that is not what were talking about here, still, bigger questions of what it means to be safe in this country. Yes, very much so. Weve been out here at the polls all day today. To find out 30 to 40 minutes ago that this was happening a stunt a hour away from our town is heartbreaking, just heartbreaking. Heartbreaking, with disautel you about the moment that we find ourselves in . It sounds to me that we really need to think about every election for what it means to put our kids first and every local election really is so important. We have to start thinking about everything that is involved on the most minute, granular level about keeping your kids safe. Kimberly phoenix, stay with me. I want to go back to congresswoman crockett. You heard what i just read there from ken paxton, the sort of standard that we have become accustomed to from republican leaders, specifically from this a. G. Your response to his response that is as simple as just pray . Listen, my daddy is a preacher, so i dont want anybody to take this the wrong way. I love jesus just like the next person, i do. We got to do more than petito. The good book says that faith with our work is if you really believe that this is something that can be done with a prayer, then we got to do the work as well. I am tired of people ken paxton is a whole other problem for a whole other list of reasons, right . But weve got to do more donda. What was interesting, even when i think back to tennessee, we saw that the governor was willing to execute some Executive Orders and is going to bring the legislative body back in for a special session to actually tighten up. But you know what it took . It took it hitting close to home for him. Its my understanding, i believe it was maybe the first ladies friend or some how, she was connected. It should not take the ask to be one of your Family Members or one of your friends before you realize that this is an epidemic that can reach you to. I should not take that, and as a public servant, it is your job to protect and to serve and make sure that we are implementing laws that make sense to protect all of us, No Matter What. Ken paxson is another one that goes along, to get along, he is part of the same radical Lieutenant Governor crew. They are all talk, and that is about. I dont even know if they are issuing real price at this point because clearly, we see that nothing good is happening right now in the state of texas. It is interesting that it is an election day today in texas. Our City Elections are to school board, elections and things like that. I will never forget may 24th, as you mentioned that this is the month of uvalde. That was the day that i was elected and i was contacted as well at the polls. I had no idea what was going on. I was simply at the polls, Greeting Voters and, unfortunately, this was unfolding and another part of my state. Those people that just feel like that they are there to say that i am a Congress Person such or such a representative such and such and really add no intention of actually representing for the people, they really need to go home. I dont really know what it will take, but something has to give in this country. There is a report now of multiple victims and nbc news does not have a number, that we are working to Frank Figliuzzi i want to bring you back into this conversation because we have viewers who are just watching us, joining as we are watching an active shooting situation at an at texas mall, Allen Premium outlets. Frank figliuzzi, lets take a big step back. If you are the atf, if you are the Police Department there what, are you doing in this moment . So, first order of business is containment. We are starting to see a change in what the visual looks like from reporting, locally, even from what im hearing on the Police Scanner. What do i mean by that . We are starting to see less of a chance of it could be, alicia menendez, that the threat is somehow resolved and that they are somehow in the investigative concluding mode, which is monumental, by the way. But now, if thats true, its all about investigation. Its all about, who is the shooter . Why did it happen . And so, if they have a shooter and then close to that is the identity of the shooter, then you are going to see a Search Warrant drafted very quickly and presented to a magistrate. And they are going to Search Warrants, vehicles, home, apartment tracing any weapon found at the scene. Does this person own multiple weapons . Where are they . Do they have training, experience, explosives . All of that is going on while everyone is getting interviewed that witnessed anything. So, when you see the evacuation in the staging of people, its also thats your crowd of witnesses. And so people have to be asked questions. What did you see . And when did you see it . Who did it . Thats all of what becomes part of the prosecution, or, if the shooter is dead, the investigation into why this happened. And the spectrum is here. Weve seen this over the last two weeks in this country. Could it be an actual domestic terror or hate attack . Or could it be someone who just got set off and angry at something that happened at the Cash Register or in line at the mall . Sadly, that is where we are today. We simply dont know what is setting people off. We know that its happening with increased frequency. And for the latest fbi report, just at a few days ago, each of these Mass Shootings gets more and more deadly in terms of body count. Now, why does that happen . Increased use of assault weapons, high powered ammunition. And so the Police Response might be great. But by the time they get there, someone has pulled the trigger and fired 30 rounds at what could be an extended magazine. Thats the other problem, which, by the way another problem extremely powerful ammunition that should be outlawed everywhere that is designed to go through a body armor to own people. So, weve seen the increased toll its taking with each of these. I want to go back to kimberly phoenix. We are supposed to be sitting here, talking about your School Board Race, and im so struck that by something that Congress WomanJasmine Crockett said. Youve all day, a year ago this month. How does it change your thinking about your own race . How does it impact you to watch what is unfolding just a short while away in your state . It would seem it raises the stakes. Yeah, it really does. I was listening to what she was saying, and i thought, how are we still doing this . Again . We are here having an election where we are fighting against a group of folks that are pushing what i believe is a christian nationalist perspective. And theyve come in and theyve taken over our School District and perspective. And to then hear that this is happening, almost a year later, and not that far away, and we are being told to pray. And im a christian. You know . And it just feels like we keep doing this over and over and over again. And i dont understand. To hear her it made the here on the back of my neck stand up to say that she was evil day was happening. And how she is at the i dont understand how we just keep repeating the same process over and over again. Kimberly phoenix, thank you for taking time to be with us on what i know is a very busy day for you. Jim kavanaugh, i want to go back to you. We do have reports of multiple victims. Nbc news does not have that number yet. Jim, talk us through the conversations that her being had internally among these multiple organizations about how much information to share and win. Well, its going to depend on the situation inside, alicia menendez. Do we have a situation here where the shooter has hit multiple victims and has committed suicide, which is a frequent leitmotif in these killings. We always talk about these things that around the periphery. We talk about Mental Health. But thats a low percentage of the shooters, really. We have hate motivated crimes. Theres terrorist motivated crimes. We have all kinds of Different Reasons for Mass Shootings. But one thing we dont talk about enough, which runs through many of these is suicides. So, the person is suicidal, and then they decide that they are going to seek revenge on somebody that they are mad at. It may be the community at large. So, then they go to a very public place. Or it could be somebody who is obsessed with mass killers, like in columbine. That could not be the motive at all. We dont know what it is. But nevertheless, suicide runs through a lot of these things. So, it is possible that the shooter is in their dead, and we have seen the very Static Situation there from the police. We are not seeing a lot of real heavy movement of swat vehicles and s. W. A. T. Officers. We are not racing around, trying to get to different parameters, that cant locate something. I think they know a lot more than we do at this point. I think they have a Static Situation there. I dont know if that means they have rescued someone or someone has been shocked by them or someone has committed suicide. But i think right now the situation is more static than we can see. And then they will be determining you asked your question, what do they put out . Thats all going to be decided by what is the situation, the Static Situation. Is it that the person is loose and hes wanted . Or is the person dead . They have him in custody . We should be seeing some public statements pretty quick. And we are not seeing that right now. And theyre just gathering their forces. Jim kavanaugh, stay with us. What to bring in antonia hylton. Antonia, its my understanding that youre about an hour away from where this unfolded. What has been the reaction on the ground there . Well, alicia, there is an election day here happening on the ground so lots of families with small kids, candidates, people who have lived in texas their entire lives, all happened to be gotten here at a library. Were less than an hour from the mall in allen. People are in shock, they are heartbroken to hear what has happened there. There are desperately checking their phones to see if there are updates, more information about what the status of the scene is there, but this is one of those moments here in texas, ive done a lot of reporting about the political moment in texas and what it represents for a lot of the country, when moments like this happen, so much at the reaction and subdividing along ideological lines. This is a community over the last several months that has done immense work to try to bridge some of the divides here, they give you some background, theres an election here for school board and city council. In particular, the School Board Race has been extremely controversial, ice theres been an effort by some candidates to bring religion and christianity into the schools. Its had an interesting effect, which is on the other side, there are parents, liberal parents, who have long fought for the separation of church and state, the issue of diversity and inclusion in texas but working side by side with other conservative christians here in the state on some of these issues. They are also bringing a lot of young kids who are voting for the first time here to the polls to have their voices heard on them, and many of these students, i just got to interview a trooper students about an hour ago before the shooting had occurred, and theyre talking about how it comes to guns, when it comes to a movement in schools to remove literature around race, around lgbtq rights and identities here, that children and communities here in texas, they are starting to feel unsafe. They are starting to feel like the adults around them, who they are supposed to be able to depend on, who they should be able to look up to, dont have their security and safety in mind. These are issues that come into Texas School Boards as well. Everything that is happening in national politics, often, you can get a good sense of where it is going on the ground. Here in this community, were seeing a little bit of a break up of this ideological lines that we have been used to. People are starting to cross the aisle and realize the same solutions and assumptions theyve been making about each other, theyre not working or making kids feel safe. Theyre seeing lots of teachers resign in districts like this one, so there is now a desire to take action, figure out a middle path forward to come to the table and i have conversations. People are processing this in Realtime No BookSchool Safety is on the minds of all. I think you spoke to one of the candidates that i have been talking to here on the ground. Its on the minds of everyone, and students are about to head to a problem across the street for me now, and many of them at the pushing the adults in the community to do better on can safety and every other issue about identity and Student Communities that they can build here. This one, just 30 to 35 minutes down the road from alan, alicia . Give me chills that there are kids going to prom. As i watch the scene play out at a mall, all i can remember that it is in fact prompts isnt. It is a busy weekend. Congresswoman, i want to bring you back into this conversation, specifically on this point, antonia raised about the fact that kids are scared, and the kids dont feel like the grownups and the leaders who are supposed to be in charge are actually doing their job. I believe that there is a statement from governor abbott. We are working to get it from you on air so we could talk about a. Talk to me about this moment we find ourselves in. Youre absolutely right. I talked to the 80 baby kiddos in Elementary School although up to college kids, often brought to the school to talk about what is your job, right . Explain the specifics of what it is to be a legislator. I would do this deal where i allow them an opportunity to set up their own house, and i pick a president. I always taught them, they can change whatever they want to change. Every single time, No Matter What the age group is, at some point in time, we get the gun legislation. Its amazing how quickly we get the gun left station. It is usually the first piece of legislation that they want to change, so it tells me that these kids are growing up with guns on their minds. I think about when i grew up. When i thought about a gun, i only thought about a gun if i was thinking about a gang member, because gangs were the really big issue that we were having when i was growing up, but i did not have to endure an active shooter drill. We did not even know what an active shooter joe was. That was not a reality of our existence. When you see the states such as texas pushing and trying to make sure that young people dont have access to the ballot box, its because that they know that the policies that they are pushing is completely out of touch with this up and coming generation. This generation will vote all of them out. We sat here and we talked about the midterms. We talked about what happened. We talked about the fact that there was not this huge red wave. We talked about the fact that young people showed up in Record Numbers. Young people are fed up, and they are also scared, so honestly. You know what, it is a lot of people i can probably blame, but i would not blame young people and, historically, theres always been a plain unknown people. But i went up and then because i will tell you one thing, they are rising up and Record Numbers and trying to create a world that will be sustainable for the foreseeable future and beyond. I applaud them for their courage. I dont know what it would be like going to school not knowing whether or not i would be safe in my classroom or if my friends who maybe cause the problem will be safe, as they are going to prom. I did not have those types of thoughts. They are living in a very scary world for a very good reason, and honestly, it is time that we start to listen to them. It is not just a matter for talking about an outlet mall. When you look at these people on the screen, you cant tell what age they are. Young people are on the right side of history as relates to this fight, just like they were historically on the right side of history when i came to the civil rights movement, when it came to vietnam and so many other things. Young people are trying to lead us down a better path, if we will only go. Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett, im glad to ask you to continue to stay with me as we watch what is unfolding out of texas. And as we start the new hour here on a american voices, we continue to follow the Breaking News out of texas. Police are on the scene of an active shooter in an outlet mall in allen