Transcripts For MSNBCW AM Joy 20200712 : comparemela.com

secretary betsy devos who does not have a background in either education or medicine said it's time to go back to school. >> kids need to get back to school. they need to get back in the classroom. families need for kids to get back in the classroom. and it can be done safely. i know for fact that there are many schools that have been working hard to put together their plans for moving ahead. and we want to see every school district, every state, doing the same thing. to say not what we can't do but what we're going to do and what we can do. we're a country of action and doers and we need people to work hard and figure this out. >> joining me now senator debby stabenow of michigan, a member of the budget and finance committees. senator, when you hear -- >> by the way -- before we start i want to say congratulations on your new show. i'm so excited for you. it's going to be great to see on at that time. >> oh, thank you so much, senator. that's very kind of you. thank you very much. when you listen to betsy devos who has never had any belief in public schools. she seems to prefer private religious schools to public schools ordering along with the president ordering third and fourth graders, high school students to go back to school even though we haven't done the work in this country that countries in europe going back to school have done. i mean, what is your reaction to that? >> well, it just is another in a series of outrages, joy. and when i think about this, you know the president can't just bully or tweet that schools are going to be safe. we have to do the work as you said. and if they were serious, they would have passed my bipartisan bill that i introduced two weeks ago. called the reopen school safety act. we would have done it before mitch mcconnell decided that the senate should be on recess for two weeks. you know, i'm talking to teachers, superintendents, all across michigan. we are running out of time to get them the resources to be able to do this correctly. we have got to make sure our teachers have protective gear, bus drivers. the custodians, everybody working with children. that the schools -- the classrooms are distanced appropriately. that they address what's happening in the cafeterias, the buses and so on. that takes resources and the way we fund schools has -- because it's going to the economy there's less revenue available at the state. so the money is going down for regular school operations and we know now nationally they're estimating close to $2 million to keep our kids safe. so our kids are worth it and they need to do more than just be talking. they need to join us to actually do something. >> and your bill as you mentioned would you know provide for the cost of keeping kids safe, of keeping the lunch ladies, everybody else safe. the editorial board said the federal government must open the checkbook. and the installation of physical barriers in common areas, increased cleaning and daily health checks. the necessary protective measures would cost $1.8 million for an average district of eight schools with more than 13,000 school districts in the united states, the total really adds up. you know, there's two pieces to this question. one part of it is will mitch mcconnell as you said, you guys are in recess, bring the senate back to pass the money? it is already almost mid july. there's not a lot of time to retrofit schools to make them as safe as a meat packing house. they're already trying to retrofit. you saw the big fight that your governor had with people in the state bringing guns to the capitol to protest having to wear masks. there's a lot of people that are sort of the anti-vaxxers of covid and refuse to participate and refuse to accept the science including the president. how can you open school at all when we haven't gotten through the pandemic? >> first of all, you're absolutely right. the only way to reopen schools and the economy, since the very beginning, it's been getting our arms around the pandemic. and what do we need to do to manage it? until we get the vaccine. and let me remind you, we need to remind people all the time, january 20th was our first public case of covid, same day as south korea. they tested 40 times more people than we did. our president said it was one case. did almost nothing for three months and put us in a situation, majority of the lives lost did not have to happen and now we're here again because there's no national strategy. and what do we do for our children and for schools? so we come back july 20th. and we should be passing this bill july 20th because the reality is if we do what i'm guessing mitch mcconnell will o do, he'll take the next three weeks, we are in session according to his calendar until the end of the first week in august. he'll run it up to the deadline and then here we'll be. here we will be where schools are trying to figure out what to do. most go back in michigan after labor day. some in other places of the country go back in august. and nothing will have been done. and so you can't put children and teachers and everyone that is involved in our children in this kind of a spot. they're putting them in impossible situations again. and we know our children need to be going back to school. they want to go back to school. parents, grandparents, everybody wants that to happen. but shame on the federal government if it's not done in a safe way. >> yeah. well said, senator. we'll be praying for your michigan schools. you guys are better off in states like florida. at least you have actual leadership in your state. thank you very much. have a wonderful rest of your weekend. let's bring in the president of the national educational association and jamaal bowman a candidate for congressman from new york. he actually won his seat in new york and will be headed to congress this week and he's a principal of a middle school. thank you both for being here. i want to start with you. in europe they have gotten a handle on covid-19. they have done what they've needed to do in places like italy, even in england where they had some struggles. these countries can reopen the schools because they have done step one which is control the virus. new york has done a really good job of getting it under control. you saw the leadership by the new york governor but i think of a state like florida and think of liberty city, predominantly black and brown communities, where they don't even have enough books and resources and computers for kids. how on earth will schools like that be able to retrofit appropriately? if my team can put up the picture of the school classroom. kids are on top of each other. how do you get a third grader to socially distance from their friends on the black top? that doesn't happen. how can this possibly happen and what will you say to betsy devos if she agreed to talk with us this morning? >> so that classroom looked like the year i had 39 people in the classroom. here's the thing. if you took a list of all of the things that the countries that donald trump was talking about, they opened schools in denmark and germany and australia and said here's what they did, states like texas and florida are doing the exact opposite. you're absolutely right. the first thing, homework, they made sure the infection rates were constantly down. denmark the day that donald trump used denmark as an example had ten new cases and the united states had 55,442. so first of all, it's apples and bowling balls they're trying to compare here. but here's another thing. and i hope that enough senators were listening to senator stabenow because we need federal help. a business needed federal help in this pandemic. we supported the c.a.r.e.s. act. that was help for our children's families. our students' families. why can't we have the very same consideration as shake shack got? when denmark and germany and the rest of them opened here's what they did. with a national response. national strong leadership. they made teachers and support staff essential emergency workers. they came to the top of the list for testing and tracing and treatment. we had access -- they had access to the masks, distance -- none of that is being made available in american public schools. just threats of taking your federal funding. by the way, federal funding for public school, that's your special ed funding. that's your school lunch funding. just do it. wave the magic wand and do it. i just have -- i just have to say, they have no plan. donald trump, betsy devos they have no plan. all they have are threats. but full teachers and principals and school boards all around the country right now are not waiting for an answer from donald trump and betsy devos. we have been working day in and day out to say how could we create and use this space, how could we creatively shift kids? these would be temporary measures to say, get those kids some of what they need in person and education. but having someone come up and say, i'll bully you, please, please under no circumstances take education or medical advice from donald trump or betsy devos. teachers, principals, school boards we're the ones that have to solve this problem but we need help. >> yeah. you know, mr. bowman, you know, you have been a principal. you know what this is like, how difficult it would be to get students to socially distance. we know how young people are. they're social creatures, it will be very difficult. so the american academy of pediatrics, they're concerned about remote learning being a problem. they're concerned about increased social isolation. they're worried about those impacts. of course their main interest -- most severely black and brown children and low income children and those with learning disabilities so they said it would be good to get kids back in school. but you as a former principal, you're running a school this coming fall what would you need in order to reopen schools and would you for instance feel comfortable reopening in florida where disney world is reopening again. some of the kids might have been at disney world and yelling and screaming on the roller coaster and getting covid and sharing it. would you feel comfortable opening? >> no, even here in new york where we flattened the curve i would not feel comfortable. we need the full resources of the federal government. we need to bring the full resources to bear on our resources across the country. i would not feel comfortable sending my child to school. we need to pass the heroes act to make sure the resources are made available. we need to retrofit the school building. we need to increase ventilation. we need to hire more teachers and we need to be innovative to use spaces throughout our city and state that aren't being used to make sure we keep class sizes as small as possible. we need to mandate masks, we need to increase our cleaning and make it more efficient and better. there are so many things to do but it start with resources from the federal government. if i were still a principal and we did not get the resources, i would refuse to open my school. and i would work with our parents to organize against reopening because, you know, as we said before, parents want kids back in school. grandparents want kids back in school, i want my two kids back in school but i'm not risking my children under the incompetence of the federal government. we need their full resources to bear. >> absolutely. it is amazing to me that you could possibly mandate kids and lunch -- the people that work in the lunchroom, janitors, put all of those people in danger and not have a mask mandate that's completely upside down and backwards. if my children were still school age they would not be going back. thank god i don't have to deal with that, they're big. i don't have -- >> can i correct something? >> yes, sure. sure. >> the academy of pediatrics were appalled at how the trump administration misused their -- their information. the first thing they said is you don't even think about this until the infection rate -- would not put kids in danger. they did not quote that part of the research and the academy of pediatrics has joined the ama in saying that you don't have to sacrifice a child's health or their social/emotional development in anything else. we're all on the same page. >> thank you very much for that correction. very important to get that under control. because yeah, clearly that's their primary focus is children's health. thank you very much. be safe and be well. coming up, "a.m. joy" legends will be on the other side of this break. joy" legends will be on the other side of this break ok like we♪ ♪won't wait♪ ♪we're taking everything we wanted♪ ♪we can do it ♪all strength, no sweat a lot of folks ask me why their dishwasher doesn't get everything clean. i tell them, it may be your detergent... that's why more dishwasher brands recommend cascade platinum... ...with the soaking, scrubbing and rinsing built right in. for sparkling-clean dishes, the first time. cascade platinum. i'm sitting here today in the u.s. capitol talking to our elected professionals, talking to our elected professionals is proof you made the right decision 40 years ago to leave the soviet union and come here to the united states of america in search of a better life for our family. do not worry, i will be fine for telling the truth. >> one of the key witnesses in the impeachment of trump, alexander vindman announced his retirement this week. vindman was set to receive a promotion, but government officials became concerned that the white house would intervene to block it. but vindman's courage in speaking truth to power has secured his place in the history books. >> i'm struck by the word don't -- that phrase do not worry. you addressed to your dad. why do you have confidence that you can do that and tell your dad not to worry? >> congressman, because this is america. this is the country i have served and defended. that all of my brothers have served and here right matters. >> joining me now, malcolm nance, contributor and author of "the plot to betray america." sarah kendzior, and naveed jamali, author of how to catch a russian spy. thank you all for being here. the new yorker has called it trump's impeachment revenge. that vindman has been bullied into retiring, secretary of defense esper was told. to dig for misconduct that would justify blocking his promotion. they couldn't find anything. his fate got caught up in the future of the more than 1,200 officers awaiting promotions. here is what senator duckworth had to say about his retirement. >> oh, i'm reading it. i'm listening for a sound bite. vindman sets a dark new precedent that any commander in chief can interfere with routine based promotions while upholding the oath of office. malcolm nance, i'm giving the first commentary on all of this to you. >> well, of course, donald trump is corrupted the entirety of how the military carries out military justice. we have seen this. he pardoned and interferes with military legal proceeding against a guy who was up on crimes for war crimes. he actually pardoned and commuted sentences of convicted war criminals. he put his finger deeply down the chain of command to commit retaliation against vindman and others and the precedence this sets is the commander in chief can carry out criminal acts with impu impugnty. these are the things they accused obama of doing against flynn. and so to carry this out against a brave soldier of vindman who stood up for the honor of the united states is no new thing. what should be a new thing is that when the trump administration is defeated, because all of you are going to go out and vote this november, that colonel vindman be given a very high position. i don't know, under secretary of state for man power or at the secretary of defense's office or at the state department so he can continue to serve this nation. >> it is a sad state of affairs when the commander of chief is attacking a very heroic member of the unified military. i'm going to your fellow navy man, naveed jamali on this one. he's not doing it alone. the republican party tries to wrap itself in the flag and in military support and, you know, they revel like in the broad support they generally get from members of the military. but here is fox news. people on fox news attacking this man. here they are. >> here we have a u.s. national security official who is advising ukraine while working inside the white house apparently against the president's interests and usually they spoke in english. isn't that kind of an interesting angle on this story? >> i find that astounding and, you know, some people might call that espionage. i'm of irish descent, i love irish and he has an affinity for his homeland. >> he's from the soviet union. he emigrated here and he has an affinity toward the uranian people. >> i mean, naveed, pretty stunning. this man is an immigrant. they're mocking him for that. they're trying to make him sound like a spy. they are belittling his service. your thoughts? >> as a son of two immigrants who served this nation, i have a lot of thoughts and i'll probably -- i'm going to censor myself for a second. i'm going to do something we should do which is when they go low, let's go high for a second. when we talk about alex vindman and what he did, you're right. he was promoted on the army side. the promotion list is at the white house and it was going to go to congress. what vindman did is his last act in uniform i think speaks to just the decency of who this plan is. rather than risk a political fight that would have held up the promotion of 1,200 other officers who had no fight in this battle. he did something that was truly selfless. he retired. and when i think about decency, when i think about just doing the right thing, when i think about morality and ethics, what an amazing act and selfless act to do as your last act in uniform. it's a way not only to deprive the trump administration of this battle that they very much sought, you know, trump has always been someone who's punitive and likes to reach out and punish individuals. he denied that. but really he did it because he wanted to be selfless and help his fellow soldiers and make sure that they suffered nothing because of him doing the right thing and i just think that that speaks to his honor, his integrity and speaks to immigrants, right? this is something because you're an immigrant doesn't mean you don't love this country any love and you can't serve it with honor, courage and commitment. in these dark times, joy, it brings a tear to my eye. i think it's a decent act and worth reminding all of us there are decent people and most americans understand morality. they understand ethics. they understand what is right. and that's exactly what he did here. >> yeah. just i rewatched "hamilton" and what's the line in it? immigrants we get the job done. >> get the job done. >> yes. i have got available to me a sound bite from john bolton trying to support alexander vindman but i'm not going to play it because to hell with it, he should have testified before the impeachment committee. nothing he could say to me in a book or in an interview that i would have any interest in whatsoever. please go away, mr. mustache. let me go to you, sarah kendzior. someone who is brilliant during the impeachment which is one adam schiff who led the arguments against impeachment. here he is talking about colonel vindman. >> it's tragic that he should be compelled to retire for these reasons. but he has earned the admiration of millions of americans, and he's got a bright future in front of him. there's work that we need to do. i think there should be inspector general investigation by the defense department into the circumstances behind this compelled retirement, behind that campaign of bullying, that he refers to. >> sarah, please do in your brilliant fashion as you always do, put this whole sordid affair into context for us based on the authoritarian character of this president. >> yeah. i mean, he's carrying out all of the classic tactics of authoritarian rule and as i said many times including on this show this is a transnational crime syndicate masquerading as a government. they think that trying to install a plutocracy from the moment he came into out of. one thing not brought up yet about vindman it was not just vindman who's singled out and punished and humiliated and retaliated against. they went after his brother, his brother who is also part of the u.s. military and that is a classic tactic of authoritarian rule. when they know that you will not buckle under pressure, they will go after your family. and it goes hand in hand with the installation of ivanka trump and jared kushner in the white house. this is how crime families and kleptocracies operate and you're right, this is something that john bolton should have spoken about during the impeachment hearings. i think he should be subpoenaed again, there should be hearings about this and there should be hearings about a lot of things. the less you push back, the more people like vindman and others get hurt. >> marco rubio said shame on them, who cares, none of his party is standing up to him, but lieutenant colonel vindman will go down as a great american hero. donald trump not so much. yes, we're out of time, malcolm? >> i just thought of the job for colonel vindman. u.s. ambassador to the ukraine. >> hey, hopefully, the biden team is listening and if he wins, it's a good idea. maybe undersecretary of defense. malcolm nance, naveed jamali, sarah kendzior. thank you very much. coming up, more "a.m. joy" after the break. coming up, more "a.m. joy" after the break. mornings were made for better things than rheumatoid arthritis. when considering another treatment, ask about xeljanz a pill for adults with moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis when methotrexate has not helped enough. xeljanz can reduce pain, swelling, and further joint damage, even without methotrexate. xeljanz can lower your ability to fight infections. before and during treatment, your doctor should check for infections like tb and do blood tests. tell your doctor if you've had hepatitis b or c, have flu-like symptoms, or are prone to infections. serious, sometimes fatal infections, cancers including lymphoma, and blood clots have happened. taking a higher than recommended dose of xeljanz for ra may increase risk of death. tears in the stomach or intestines and serious allergic reactions have happened. don't let another morning go by without asking your doctor about the pill first prescribed for ra more than seven years ago. xeljanz. they're going to be paying for this for a long time. they will, but with accident forgiveness allstate won't raise your rates just because of an accident, even if it's your fault. cut! sonny. was that good? line! the desert never lies. isn't that what i said? no you were talking about allstate and insurance. i just... when i... let's try again. everybody back to one. accident forgiveness from allstate. click or call for a quote today. accident forgiveness this virus is testing all of us. and it's testing the people on the front lines of this fight most of all. so abbott is getting new tests into their hands, delivering the critical results they need. and until this fight is over, we...will...never...quit. because they never quit. . cnn breaking news. >> welcome do the viewers here in the united states and around the world. i'm wolf blitzer. this is a special edition of the situation room. we begin with an image that many people believe we should have seeing much more of for weeks, even months. this is the president of the united states last hour at the walter reed national military medical center here in washington, d.c. he's actually wearing a mask. finally. only the second time we have seen him do so. >> americans woke up this morning and saw the leader of a country with 3.2 million citizens infected with the lethal virus put on a darn mask. now before you jump to the conclusion that trump is finally embracing science and taking the pandemic seriously, listen to what he thinks about wearing a mask. >> i may not have a problem. i had a mask on, i liked the way i looked. it was a black, dark mask, i thought i looked like the lone ranger. >> yes. his memory of his childhood might be fuzzy. the lone ranger's mask went over a completely different part of his face, but it's widely viewed as racist toward native americans. it's good that someone finally convinced trump to cover that very active spreader of misinformation of potential germs. maybe just maybe trump copes with covering his mug by keeping this sound track in his head. ♪ wh you shop with wayfair, you spend less and get way more. so you can bring your vision to life and save in more ways than one. for small prices, you can build big dreams. spend less, get way more. shop everything home at wayfair today. we are the thrivers. women with metastatic breast cancer. our time for more time... has come. living longer is possible - and proven in postmenopausal women taking kisqali plus fulvestrant. in a clinical trial, kisqali plus fulvestrant helped women live longer with hr+, her2- metastatic breast cancer. and it significantly delayed disease progression. kisqali can cause lung problems or an abnormal heartbeat, which can lead to death. it can cause serious liver problems and low white blood cell counts that may result in severe infections. tell your doctor right away if you have new or worsening symptoms, including breathing problems, cough, chest pain, a change in your heartbeat, dizziness, yellowing of the skin or eyes, dark urine, tiredness, loss of appetite, abdomen pain, bleeding, bruising, fever, chills, or other symptoms of an infection, are or plan to become pregnant, or breastfeeding. avoid grapefruit during treatment. ( ♪ ) ask your doctor about living longer with kisqali. ( ♪ ) if you have a garden you know, weeds are low down little scoundrels. draw the line with roundup. the sure shot wand extends with a protective shield to target weeds precisely and kill them right down to the root. roundup brand. trusted for over 40 years. ♪ ♪all strength ♪we ain't stoppin' believe me♪ ♪go straight till the morning look like we♪ ♪won't wait♪ ♪we're taking everything we wanted♪ ♪we can do it ♪all strength, no sweat sorry i'm late, everybody, and apologies for my appearance. you look fine. we were just talking about -- yeah, right. i look like a wanted poster. i didn't have time to get my beard routine in this morning, so... what beard routine? ah. well, the key is maple nectar. gives it that sheen. is there something wrong with my screen? -mnh-mnh. -jamie, what are talking about? you're right, alan. we should be talking about bundling home and auto with progressive, not this luscious mane of mine. [ laughs ] jamie, do you know what a beard is? what would you do, joy, if you were locked up in the detention center and your choices were papers that said i'm going to deport to get out of this place where i might die or go to the place where i might die in one of the most dangerous cities along the southern border in the united states. that's a choice that we are presenting as a country to our migrants. >> covid-19 continues to tear through u.s. immigration detention centers. isis confirmed at least 3,000 positive detainees. and nearly half of the employees at a detention center. nearly half in arizona have tested positive as well. citing the severity of the crisis i.c.e. was given a deadline to release the children held or the more than 20 days. there's no such order for the release of the children's parents and the trump administration is fighting to keep those parents detained. joining me is the journalist and author of "perfectly you and maria teresa kumar." mariana, to you first. this is the marshall project investigation that was done, an investigation by the "new york times" in collaboration with the marshall project reveals how scatter shot testing turned i.c.e. into the global spreader of the virus. they spoke to more than 30 immigrant detainees who described cramped detention centers where social distancing was impossible. it was like a time bomb said a cuban immigrant held in louisiana and to this very point, reuters is reporting in july that migrants are so terrified being in detention that they are actually choosing deportation to avoid getting covid. as somebody who covered this extensively, your thoughts. >> let's begin with a very simple statement, joy, that i don't think the trump administration understands or doesn't want to understand when it comes to little brown migrant children. children are always better off with their parents. children are always better off with their parents. you and i covered the family separation crisis in 2018 on the ground. you and i saw the kind of trauma that these separations subjected these kids to. and now using a pandemic and these horrific conditions that they themselves created in these detention centers that a u.s. district judge called were on fire and said there was no time for half measures, now as jacob said you're not only subjecting parents to make this impossible situation of having to stay there or going back to their home countries, you're making parents choose because the separation has to be done with the parent's consent making them choose between keeping their kid in the covid hot spot or being separated from them. it is wholly unethical and un-american and let me finish by saying if we can free people like roger stone, they released michael cohen to the upper east side i think we can release the families together. i think we can release law-abiding asylum seeking parents who have every right to be with their children. >> here-here. donald trump to that very point, you know, maria teresa is releasing actual felons because he thinks, you know, they might get covid or tell on him. here is the buzz -- latest buzzfeed reporting as of friday. this is sick. the trump administration told a judge that i.c.e. should not release parents and children who have been detained together. attorneys for the trump administration said the court should deny a motion for preliminary injunction, and going to "the washington post" as of july 7th. they might still separate families after a federal judge orders i.c.e. to free these children. migrant advocates said i.c.e. is giving parents just as marianna just said the acceptable choice of agreeing to separation to protect their kids or staying together at a greater risk. this is a sophie's choice that they're giving the parents. it's sadistic. i don't have another word for it. your thoughts? >> we started to recover this, as you recall, of the covid epidemic that was happening, raging through i.c.e. detention centers in the middle of march. this is not a surprise. the fact that 20% of facilities are infected should be a code red for everyone. but let's remind the american public your viewers, seeking asylum is not breaking the law. yet, we have mass incarceration of these families and we are creating family separation 2.0 that is far more severe than what we saw. let's remind our audience too that close to 2,000 children had yet to be reunited from the first family separation. and we have a growing constituency of americans who recognize that, what the president is doing is not only cruel, but cruelty is his point. when you allow him to equivocate, you know, releasing roger stone, but even thinking about releasing a child that is still nursing and separate them from their mother, that causes long-term trauma, but more distinctly all he's doing is galvanizing his base and saying i'm as cruel as you can imagine, because these individuals are vulnerable and what can they do for me? that is the problem. >> yeah. it's horrifying, but, you know, marianna talk about this. you have covered, you know, these -- some of the countries where these migrants are fleeing from. and so what happens if you have asymptomatic people who choose to be deported out of fear of getting covid, but which are infected with covid. what does then do if they return to guatemala actually covid infected and we haven't done enough testing even of the general population let alone the migrant populations. what kind of care could they even expect and what could happen if they then bring the virus to those countries? >> if the asymptomatic people they're deporting, but before getting on the deportation flights have said i'm sick. i have been to haiti for reporting several times who said, i am sick, do not deport me and they still put him on the airplane. they're putting the poor countries in the sophie's choice scenario because they're essentially threatening their financial aid, what they have to feed and educate their people if they don't take these sick patients. so that number one, is not what we stand for as a country. secondly, you're absolutely right, we're sending people to places that don't have adequate mad cat care for them. that don't have the adequate tracking measures to be able to track these patients. what has happened? these people because they are unsafe in their home countries are going back to the border and are threatening our border communities. last night preparing for your show this morning, i spoke to helen perry the executive director of global response management in the tent city and she said they're tracking right now 1,808 coronavirus cases and they were covid free before june 25th. because of the deportations, now they're almost at 2,000 cases. >> and joy, many of these individuals when they're getting sent back are basically going into countries that are already are failed systems. that's why they left. president trump promised the individuals ventilators and the ventilators have never showed up. but they are on purpose transporting and creating a global pandemic even worse by sending people who are tested positive for covid back into the failed countries. >> very quickly, before we go, maria teresa, we talk about the pending explosion of the young latinx vote and in places like texas and colorado, this is going to be a huge and overwhelming vote. is this crisis enough to trig their vote to get to scale or a close to scale this november? we're sort out of time, but very quickly. >> we just did a poll released on friday. health during the pandemic and racial inequity are the two things driving the young people, and the biden campaign needs to get their act together. we have people clear and present and the campaign needs to talk their language and i'm not talking spanish. >> they have to get it together. i can tell you one person who is going to be on the voter rolls this november because i happen to know she's a newly minted citizen, mariana atencio. welcome to the family, mama. a lot of people are making that decision. yes, a lot of people are making that decision so congratulations to you. i read your piece on that. >> congratulations to you. >> i can't -- this is a win for all of us. for all of our my sisters. thank you very much. i appreciate you both immensely. all right. thank you. meanwhile, as the coronavirus pandemic continues to spin out of control donald trump's poll numbers take a nose dive. we are starting to see signs, little hints, little murmurs, little cracks in his base, even at fox news. keep it right there for more "a.m. joy" after the break. it e "a.m. joy" after the break 't kn. but we're all going at our own speed. at enterprise, peace-of-mind starts with our complete clean pledge, curbside rentals and low-touch transactions. with so many vehicles of so many kinds, you can count on us to help you get everywhere you want to go... again. whenever you're ready, we're ready for you. enterprise. it's velveeta shells & cheese versus the other guys. ♪ clearly, velveeta melts creamier. essential for sewing, but maybe not needles. for people with certain inflammatory conditions. because there are options. like an "unjection™". xeljanz. the first and only pill of its kind that treats moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis, psoriatic arthritis, or moderate to severe ulcerative colitis when other medicines have not helped enough. xeljanz can lower your ability to fight infections. before and during treatment, your doctor should check for infections, like tb and do blood tests. tell your doctor if you've had hepatitis b or c, have flu-like symptoms, or are prone to infections. serious, sometimes fatal infections, cancers including lymphoma, and blood clots have happened. taking a higher than recommended dose of xeljanz for ra may increase risk of death. tears in the stomach or intestines and serious allergic reactions have happened. needles. fine for some. but for you, there's a pill that may provide symptom relief. ask your doctor about the pill first prescribed for ra more than seven years ago. xeljanz. an "unjection™". well, it's time to talk about donald john trump. okay. yep. okay. >> are you all right there, buddy? hope he's okay. good morning, welcome back to "a.m. joy." it definitely seems like republicans are having a harder and harder time supporting donald trump. wisconsin congressman glen grothman got choked up saturday while speaking at wisconsin's in-person gop convention where most attendees were not wearing masks. seems smart. but even as it gets tougher to justify supporting a president like trump the folks over at fox news have been right on narrative with their dear leader, at least on air. they're down playing the severity of the pandemic and pushing for schools to reopen even as covid-19 cases and deaths soar nationwide. >> it sounds like a covid a.m. g armageddon, stay in your house and never leave. >> many schools that do plan to reopen will do so under a series of restrictions that have no basis of any kind in science, it's a kind of bizarre health theater. students will be kept 6 feet apart, everyone will have to wear a mask, dallas size will be limited. >> the kids benefit in school, life is full of risks, kids should learn that early, life is full of hurdles, got to find a way to overcome. this is not ebola, it's the coronavirus. >> health theory. it's not ebola. three people died of ebola in the united states. off air as it becomes more and more evident that the walls are closing in on trump and his dwindling reelection prospects. several fox news hosts have been privately breaking ranks. according to reporting from "vanity fair" during a private dinner it he home of roger ailes' widow fox host laura ingraham told guests we have to be prepared for trump losing. much to the dismay of the far right and probably donald trump judge jeanine pirro wearing actual masks on his instagram page, a flashy display of support trump was resisted up until yesterday. joining me is timothy o'brien, author of "trump nation," jonathan capehart, gabriel sherman, msnbc contributor, jennifer rubin, opinion writer at the "washington post" and david corn. another mega panel. we love it. let me go to you, gabriel, first. from your tone, "vanity fair," perhaps anticipating that fox news could pivot in a post-trump media environment, ingram said she's been in talks to take over for rush limbaugh, recently revealed his stage 4 lung cancer may force him off the radio. laura is interested in rush's job a person close to ingram said. is that the plan, that basically they would just pivot to the hector joe biden strategy if donald trump were to lose rather than the worship at the feet of donald trump as if he is the golden calf? >> well, joy, you know, i think what i find fascinating is all of these fox news personalities are seeing the same polls that we in the real world community are seeing, you know, just this week scott rasmussen had his at his lowest ever approval rating since he became president. so privately they are all making plans for a post-donald trump future. what i find also fascinating is to really look at what the fox news empire will do, the murdoch family, which still controls fox news, is going to have to make a business decision whether to go down the drain with donald trump to the bottom or make a strategic break from him to try to chart a post-trump republican future. i think these conversations i know are playing out as we speak, we just saw over the weekend fox news rebuke tucker carlson's head writer for a series of misogynistic and racist social media posts and so they're trying to clearly draw some sort of line, the question is will they erase trump from that line. >> to stay with you just for a minute, gabe, they rebuke him for that, but he's writing for a show whose core narrative is that immigrants are filthy and dirty and in they move near the house they're going to burn your neighborhood to the ground. he used to write for the tucker carlson created daily caller. this is like not like secret views that were like shocking, i can't believe he would say that and he works for tucker carlson. how secret could this -- right? isn't the narrative right now that immigrants are filthying up the country and covid isn't real. it's weird. internally what are they saying there? are they saying they don't want that to be the image? >> this has always been the dance at fox news, joy, they have a line and when they cross over a perceived line that advertisers boycott or just find indefensible they try to walk it back a little bit with a binge and nod. i'm not saying tucker carlson fundamentally changing the style of programming on his show, but they are trying to send a signal to the business community that people who spend millions of dollars to advertise on fox news it's okay, we don't approve of this, just don't look at the other things we're putting on the air. >> right. is jeanine pirro going to be rebuked internally for wearing a mask on her social media? and showing whaewearing that -- >> no, we saw that the other day on fox and friends they were trying to appeal to donald trump saying masks are great again. this is a case where even fox news sees that donald trump is clinging to reality that people this trump states, you know, fox news viewers, are the ones who are seeing the highest spike in covid cases. >> correct. correct. exactly. let's play that for a second. this is fox and friends -- i will read it, fox and friends host urges trump to wear a masks. masks are great again says steve ducey. they're trying to convince him it's cool, donald. if you do it we'll do it, now he wears it under his nose. all his people will be like that's how you wear t trump style. jonathan capehart, let me go to you, my friend. before you answer on this i know you've been in contact with john lewis' family. i want you to take just a second and update us on that. what's going on with john lewis? >> it was terrifying yesterday, the stories and the chatter that the great congressman from georgia had passed away. that was not true and it is -- continues to be not true. congressman lewis according to his chief aide i texted with this morning says that the congressman continues to rest comfortably at home in atlanta. so that is -- that is good news. i was out on a walk yesterday when i started getting the texts and i had to stop in my tracks because john lewis is for those who don't know is the last -- the last surviving speaker from the 1963 march on washington. so he is our last living link to that fantastic moment in american history. he's still with us. >> yeah, absolutely. please keep us updated on that. that's a very important update. we really appreciate that. let me go to you on this subject of just sort of fox and the world. so fox news is still doing a thing on the air where they're down playing the severity of the covid crisis, but as gabriel points out it's now red states and republican run states and states with trump worshipping governors like in florida and texas that are seeing the pandemic just explode. arizona. where places like new york that have reasonable rational governors or maryland that has a rational republican governor it's going down. can they survive this narrative if it's their own people they're ultimately jeopardizing? >> well, no. they can't. we have been watching sort of two worlds play -- play off against each other. you've got the happy talk earth two world that president trump has been living in trying to say that the virus will magically disappear or it will disappear if you drink disinfectants or bleach or the cases will go from 12 to 5 to 0, it will magically disappear. to the reality of the governors and local officials on the ground who are dealing with exploding hospitalizations, exploding positive case rates and rising death rates. you saw red state governors -- i'm thinking of governor desantis in florida -- who was lecturing new york governor andrew cuomo months ago about how what was happening in new york was not going to happen in florida, and now it's happening in florida. there's only so long these governors can continue to say to their people that this is a fake when -- that this is false and fake news when their citizens are lining up in their cars for hours on end trying to get tests and then once they find out they're positive there might not be a hospital bed for them and then there might not be any treatment for them. >> right. >> so those governors are now in the middle of a world of hurt that they should have been prepared for. >> yeah. you know, jennifer, i have to go to you and i apologize to make you have to answer for the republican party but you are my only former republican that i know of guest here. can you explain this to me because i have never understood why you would run for office and want to be a governor, be a public servant and then essentially condemn your own constituents to sickness and maybe death. i don't understand ron desantis. i don't get it. this guy is reopening disney world, he is demanding that kids go back to school all because he must please donald trump, again, it's that golden calf narrative. he wore ships trump, so that if trump says no i say no. i don't understand why you think you could, a, get reelected doing that because people are going to die and second do you not understand that you are condemning your own supporters? right? because the democrats in your state are going to be like we're not going to follow you. >> by, joy, you are under the misconception that these people run for office to do good, to help people, to solve problems, and, in fact, they are there for their own generation, for their own celebrity and it is far more important that they keep their audience than their constituents happy. these people are in an ideological never-never land and in order to keep themselves in good standing they have to wreak havoc on their own population. that's why you see them devolve into just denial because what else are they going to do? and even when people are dying, this is the sickness of a cult which has become the republican party, the republican party that's become a cult, is that even when people are dying, they still stick to this narrative because that is their reason for being, for being part of this conservative media universe in which they get pats on the head, they get rewarded, they get cheers for sounding like donald trump. and, of course, the realization is it's a dead end and i would keep your eye on texas. what's happening in texas, you saw greg abbott, one of the most ferocious trump supporters who has now instituted a statewide ban on masks. you have polling coming out that slowly the texas electorate is shifting to the democrats. if that happens the republican party is through and i think keep your eye on tacks because i think that is a tipping point both for the virus and for the republican party. >> yeah, and there is a poll out this morning we are going to be talking about a little bit later in the show that has got to be unnerving for texas republicans. tim o'brien, you know, donald trump has always, you know, if you look at all the -- everything you've written about him, what tony schwartz has said about him, he has wanted always to have this absolute power. he has this mussolini impulse, this authoritarian impulse. well, now he is leading what, you know, is sort of a doomsday cult and is this sort of -- has he kind of reached peak trump dream? is this what he wanted? >> well, you know, i don't think trumpism is going to go away, joy. i think, you know, it's a symptom, it's not a cause. a lot of the stuff that's been unleashed in the trump era in this very tactile tangible way around, i think, racism and income inequality has decades old roots in this country. trump is just an expression of what happens when it collides with reality and it collides with the well-being of most americans, particularly americans of color and working class americans who lack some of the other defenses against this more privileged americans have. you know, sarah palin was an expression of this. trump just took it to its logical extreme. he is not someone who is going to willingly give up the spotlight, you know, fox, you know, as we spoke about earlier in the program, helped open this pandora's box, but i think when trump -- if trump doesn't get reelected in november i think he's going to make a play for another media company like sinclair broadcasting or he will try to start one of his own because he can't exist outside of the spotlight. fortunately for all of us mother nature and the black lives movement came along and gave this big dose of reality to an administration and an approach to the world that denies objective reality and denies the idea that public institutions can help solve problems, and now they're dealing with the consequences. i think they're going to have an electoral wake up in november that's going to introduce generational change because of this, but i don't think trumpism is going to go away. >> no, i definitely agree with that. he could just buy oann which seems to be the next logical step. this he already are on his line. he could do that and have his small but angry group of supporters. david corn, i used to say back in the day that the logical president for what the republican party was clearly merging into was rush limbaugh. they should just elect rush limbaugh president, he makes sense because that is what he believes is what the party believes, whether they say it out loud or not. there's now talk that the next -- the 2024 presidential candidate could be one tucker carlson. that seems very logical to me. that that is where the party is headed. the next step beyond trump if this is where they're going they might as well nominate tucker carlson. that seems fairly logical to me. what are your thoughts? >> well, it might be logical but remember there are demographics at work here, too. right? trump is popular with a certain part of the segment of the population, they are older, they are whiter, less educated and they are to be frank about it dying off. the demographic trends in this country do not favor trumpism as an electoral force. i mean, tim is right, whatever it is whether it's 30% of the country, 33%, maybe high 30s, low 40s are people who buy trump's authoritarian impulse, his hatred, his bigotry, his racism, misogyny, but that is not a majority and it's not an increasing part of the population. so the republican party seems at this point, like jen said, it's a death cult, it's a sun belt party that it doesn't expand and find new types of voters, it's not going to go anywhere. so, yes, yes, tucker, please run. you will be, you know -- two words for you -- [ inaudible ] i mean, that's what he has to look forward to. ideological the republican party is indeed fox, fox is state television, but what happens when you don't have the state and your state tv, what happens when you don't have the voters and you want to be a bigoted or authoritarian like trump. it's not going to work out. >> jonathan laughed the loudest, i'm going to go to you first and then i'm going to go to gabe. look, it worked this south africa. i'm being honest. the republican party -- go and read the history of the national party, the national or nationalist party in south africa, it's the same party as the republican party in the united states. it's about white interest politics and white grievance politics and fear of losing power to a brown or black majority. that is the republican party now. mitch mcconnell can pretend he is the masked man, that he is the biggest advocate of masks, no one believes that, they just know he got his 200 judges so he doesn't give a damn about trump anymore because he got what he wanted out of trump, all those judges that keep the powerful empowered for the next 40 years. now that he has 40 years of power in the bank now he's like wear a mask. no one believes him. anyway, go ahead, jonathan. >> where do i go after that? >> i'm sorry. >> i take your point with the south africa analogy and as i was listening to you talk about that just now and also i believe you mentioned it yesterday on your show which i found really interesting, the one thing we have in the united states going for us is very strong institutions that will push up -- will push back against the -- at least i hope -- against the authoritarianism that we're seeing right now. we won't get to the point of south africa. i take -- and i take solace in the fact that the supreme court -- let me speak for myself. i wasn't quite sure the supreme court would stand up for the rule of law and push back against the president, especially when you have a president of the united states who says, well, i've got my two justices on the supreme court. >> right. >> translation, they're going to do what i want them to do. >> what i want, yep. >> right. but with the lgbtq decision, the abortion decision, the two decisions on his tax records and whether, you know, the president is supreme, the supreme court came back and said no. put the president in check. and that is the thing that gives me hope and solace that the united states will not go the way of south africa. but, you know, hope springs eternal. >> jonathan, demand for hope. last word from you, gabriel sherman, is tucker carlson going to run in 2024? isn't that the logical conclusion of where we're going here. he has a built in audience, he's going to run, right? >> if i had to bet i would say no. tucker carlson splits his time between florida and maine. he very rarely goes out where there is a lot of people around. he has a very nice life for him as he monetizes this trump cult. to put yourself in the scrutiny and the riser of having to run for president is much harder than what he has to do now and frankly he has a lot -- in some ways as much power now as being president because the things he says every night in television go directly into the white house. if i was a better man i'd say he's not going to run. >> interestingly. i bet he's spending a lot more time in rural maine than florida because he has to keep tucker carlson safe. they say a lot of stuff about don't wear a mask but i guarantee the murdochs, all those people have masks on and nobody goes near them. thank you all very much. coming up, our next guest might have a thing or two to say about trump's roger stone community tags. your final "a.m. joy" moment of maxine is next. your final "a.m. joy" moment of maxine is next i have moderate to severe pnow, there's skyrizi. your final "a.m. joy" moment of maxine is next. ♪ to tation your final "a.m. joy" moment of maxine is next ♪ yeah that's all me. ♪ nothing and me go hand in hand ♪ ♪ nothing on my skin ♪ that's my new plan. ♪ nothing is everything. keep your skin clearer with skyrizi. 3 out of 4 people achieved 90% clearer skin at 4 months. of those, nearly 9 out of 10 sustained it through 1 year. and skyrizi is 4 doses a year, after 2 starter doses. ♪ i see nothing in a different way ♪ ♪ and it's my moment so i just gotta say ♪ ♪ nothing is everything skyrizi may increase your risk of infections and lower your ability to fight them. before treatment your doctor should check you for infections and tuberculosis. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms such as fevers, sweats, chills, muscle aches or coughs, or if you plan to or recently received a vaccine. ♪ nothing is everything ask your dermatologist about skyrizi. ♪ when your v-neck looks more like a u-neck... that's when you know, it's half-washed. downy helps prevent stretching by conditioning fibers, so clothes look newer, longer. downy and it's done. if you have a garden you know, weeds are low down little scoundrels. draw the line with roundup. the sure shot wand extends with a protective shield to target weeds precisely and kill them right down to the root. roundup brand. trusted for over 40 years. 49i found you! good job. now i'm gonna stay here and you go hide. watch your favorites from anywhere in the house with the xfinity stream app. free with your xfinity service. now any room can be a tv room. stream live tv, on demand shows and movies even your dvr recordings. download the xfinity stream app today to stream the entertainment you love. xfinity. the future of awesome. some companies still have hr stuck between employeesentering data.a. changing data. more and more sensitive, personal data. and it doesn't just drag hr down. it drags the entire business down -- with inefficiency, errors and waste. it's ridiculous. so ridiculous. with paycom, employees enter and manage their own data in a single, easy to use software. visit paycom.com, and schedule your demo today. roger stone knew he was going to get a pardon. roger stone has been walking around with the same my daddy owns your daddy smirk since 1976. this was a pardon of self-preservation and everybody knew it was coming so the only relevant question is what are democrats going to do about it if they ever take power again. it has been another whirlwind of the week in the land of donald trump from commuting roger stone's sentence on friday night to a flurry of supreme court case that is could mean big trouble for trump, particularly once he is not president. but you heard elie, what are the democrats going to do about roger stone, trump's taxes and holding the president accountable for his blatant self-preservation. joining me now for your moment of maxine, one of our favorite segments on "a.m. joy," california congresswoman maxine waters chair of the house financial services committee and always super fashionable. thank you so much, congresswoman. i want to play for you roger stone. here he is touting his commutation versus being pardoned. here he is. >> we've also appealed the ruling on my conviction. so i -- had i had a choice of a pardon or a commutation i'm happy to have the commutation because i want to clear my name. i'm happy to fight it out and i am happy to -- i would like to win a new trial and vindication. >> your thoughts, congresswoman. >> well, you know, this is absolutely outrageous that the president of the united states could be so brazen as to, you know, commute and pardon his friends who are protecting him. it's in your face. but the president of the united states does not care about what we think. he really does believe that he has unlimited power and there's nothing we can do about it. the only thing that we could have done about it was to make sure that he was impeached and that the senate made sure that they agreed with us and that he would no longer be president of the united states of america, but the senate, the republicans, you know, have not lived up to their responsibility. they have literally been intimidated, they've been complicit, they've allowed this president to defy us, the constitution and everything else. so this brazenness, in your face, is a way that the president has defined himself and roger stone is laughing at all of us. >> yeah, you tweeted no surprise trump commutes roger stone's sentence. before trump leaves office he will en skro sure his crooked friends are free to commit treason. you know, what do you make of mitt romney coming out and calling this commutation absolute corruption? he voted on one count to convict donald trump on one count of impeachment, but do you take seriously any republican umbrage at the commutation given, as you said, that they refuse to remove him? >> well, romney has increasingly, you know, been out disagreeing with the president, criticizing the president. i think that he has stepped out far enough for us to understand that he has broken with the president of the united states and that he feels a little freer now to criticize him. i believe that he is serious about it. >> yeah. kristen clark had a tweet as well and this was one that really just -- it struck me, broke my heart when i read it, but this is i think a real true facts that you will know, congresswoman having lived as a black woman this this country. roger stone found guilty by a jury on seven federal criminal counts. no jail time. kalif broader accused of stealing a backpack couldn't post bail, spent three years at rikers island awaiting trial, ultimately committed suicide after release. we have two justice systems in our country. this is the reason that the black lives matter movement has taken hold. that there are two systems of justice for the rich, the poor, the white, the black. what do you make of those who are still to this day criticizing black lives matter such as senator kelly loeffler. what do you make of that, that they are still doing that? >> i think you said it earlier today when you talked about this need for trump and those who support him to want to, you know, have absolute power and to believe that it is their right and their responsibility to ensure that blacks and people of color and others do not rise to any level of influence and power, significant that would cause them not to be in total charge of the country. so that young man is typical of so many young black men and women who have been sent to jail, who have been convicted, who have served long sentences. this justice system is broken, it has never really been in our favor and it has basically been responsible for ensuring that we could never ever get beyond this suppression and this oppression that has been forced upon us for so many years. so those who criticize black matter -- black lives matter, they can continue to do that, but i want to tell you the time has come now where we are joined by so many others who really were not there for us in the past. you saw it in all of the protests where you had whites and blacks and asians and old and young all saying something is wrong with this country. something is wrong with our criminal justice system. something is wrong with our policing. and it is racism. i remember a time when we couldn't use the word racism. as a matter of fact, they would accuse us of playing the race card if we talked about racism. but i think now we have an opportunity for change and for those who are resisting it, we're going to run right over them and we're going to continue with what we have to do to be able to live in this country under a constitution that guarantees us equality and justice. so let them keep talking. let them keep resisting. black lives matter is not going anywhere. it's going to get bigger, it's going to get more people involved and you are going to see those letters of black lives matter all over the country on major streets in america. i love seeing it in washington and in new york. >> congresswoman maxine waters, role model and also wonderful congresswoman. thank you so much. really appreciate you. always love having a moment of maxine on the show. thank you so much. >> so pleased to be with you this morning and i'm looking forward to seeing you in your new role. congratulations. congratulations to msnbc. you're so deserving. >> thank you. >> we are so proud. >> thank you. thank you, congresswoman. i really appreciate that. always appreciate you. thank you. more "a.m. joy" after the break. . thank you. more "a.m. joy" after the break. [indistinct radio chatter] (vo) audi e-tron. the next frontier of electric. welcome back. well, the last four years, four years, has been a never ending whirlwind of news. "a.m. joy" that is tried to if i have you a front row seat to everything that's happening and help you put it all in perspective. next weekend my time here on "a.m. joy" will come to a close. our "a.m. joy" family and i will be here, though, for one last time to celebrate and to inform you. so please join us for a very special edition of this program next saturday july 18th. there is so much more "a.m. joy" after the break. there is so much more "a.m. joy" after the break. (vo) parents have a way of imagining the worst... ...especially when your easily distracted teenager has the car. at subaru, we're taking on distracted driving... ...with sensors that alert you when your eyes are off the road. the subaru forester. the safest forester ever. hold on one second... sure. okay... okay! safe drivers save 40%!!! guys! guys! check it out. safe drivers save 40%!!! safe drivers save 40%! safe drivers save 40%!!! that's safe drivers save 40%. it is, that's safe drivers save 40%. - he's right there. - it's him! he's here. he's right here. - hi! - hi. hey! - that's totally him. - it's him! that's totally the guy. safe drivers do save 40%. click or call for a quote today. safe drivers do save 40%. try wayf♪ r. you got this! ♪ perfect. -you're welcome. i love it. how'd you do all this? told ya! wayfair. let's talk dining tables. yes! blow it up. ♪ wayfair you've got just what i need ♪ can leave you holding your breath. ♪ but bristol myers squibb is working to change things. by researching new kinds of medicines that could help you live longer. including options that are chemo-free. because we're committed to bringing new hope into lung cancer care. american investment in education is a promise to students and their families. if schools aren't going to reopen and not fulfill that promise, they shouldn't get the funds. then give it to the families to decide to go to a school that is going to meet that promise. >> well, you can't do that. i mean, you guys support vouchers and that's -- i know you support vouchers and that's -- and that's a reasonable argument, but you can't do that unilaterally. you have to do that through congress. >> well, we are looking at all the options because it's a promise to the american people to students and their families and we want to make sure that promise is followed through on. >> wow. education secretary betsy devos refuses to back down on threats from his boss to pull funding from schools if students and teachers don't return to the classroom as cases and hospitalizations for covid-19 continue to surge. joining me now three legends of journalism, i have been intimidated by this panel. dan wrather, president of news and guts media and host host the big interview. carol simpson who moderated the 1992 presidential dee gate and e.j. dionne. author of "code red" plus lots and lots and lots of "new york times" best sellers. what an incredible panel. i have to go to one of my role models, carol simpson, first. what i head from betsy devos, ms. carol, was a sneaky was to support the things she has always cared about which is vouchers. she doesn't believe in public school, that's why she's there to deconstruct public school and get vouchers through. was i hearing her saying we will get vouchers without congression congressional. >> i think that's what she was saying. i watched her several appearances and was horrified. why is this administration so vindictive. instead of giving people a national mandate that they do a certain thing, it's like leaving it to the local schools. let's see what the local schools will do. if you don't do what we want to do, we're going to take your money away. i've watched her and she was like a cartoon character on one of those rolling barrels as she was trying to make sense of even what she was saying and all she could say was we want all the children back in school in the fall. well, if my two children were school aged now i don't believe i would be sending them to school with things as loosey goosey as they are now. >> yeah. i wouldn't, either. and, you know, dan rather, you've obviously been doing this for a very long time. have you ever heard a secretary of education endorse the idea of defunding the federal -- the public school system? of saying no money from the federal government to school. they are all mad about defund police but apparently what betsy devos and donald trump are advocating is defunding public schools. >> no, i have never heard it before and neither has anyone else because no president or any representative of the federal government of the united states has ever before advocated that. this administration is dedicated to doing all it can to destroy the public school system. it makes no sense. it's outrageous, but that is what is happening. we all understand that our public schools, they are the beating heart of everything we dream to be and have happen for our kids and grandkids. we should see it clearly what it is because there is an effort made by president trump and those under him including his education secretary to follow up on what's happening. we have to see what's happening, this is designed to destroy the public school system as we have known t it's outrageous and it's dangerous. >> it is. it is very, very strange. definitely for sure. here is betsy devos for you, e.j. here she is and this is in the whole sea of odd things that she said. this is her reaction to the news that three arizona teachers have contracted coronavirus and one of them died. take a listen. >> i feel for a teacher that has a vulnerability or an underlying condition and know that this is something that is concerning, but the reality is that there are ways for those teachers to be able to continue to do what they do and every district, every state has the real opportunity to work with and figure out the best scenario for those teachers. >> should younger teachers go in if they don't feel comfortable? >> that's something for them to work out with their local district, but, again, that's the exception not the rule. >> e.j., your thoughts? >> you know, when you look at -- first of all, i have to say, joy, i'm so excited about your new show. this is good for you, it's great for viewers. it's fantastic. >> thank you. >> i want to say that -- i really mean it from the heart. i look at what betsy devos said and if you look at that you realize that one of the reasons the trump administration is insomuch trouble it's not simply bad policy they have pursued, it's this remarkable lack of empat empathy. you would think that the first reaction from her would be about someone who devoted their life to teaching who contracted a disease, instead it went to message and sound bite and i think this whole argument about the schools that the administration is making is really symptomatic of something important that political leaders have a choice, they can either use an issue to divide people or they can take a really complicated problem and try to solve it. most all americans want kids back in school, all americans know that teaching online is no real substitute for the personal experience of the classroom except for younger kids, but we haven't solved the covid crisis. the biggest underlying problem is the failure of the administration's policy to get this under control, which is why it is so hard for us to get back to school in the fall. so instead of saying, look, we're going to work with everybody to try to get this problem solved, trump is just looking for a way to divide people and say, those teachers are going to go back to work and i'm going to force them to do it even though he actually doesn't have the power to do it. >> yeah, it's pretty incredible. >> joy, can i say something? >> sure. of course. >> i just wanted to not be the only one that did not congratulate you for your getting your new show. i am so thrilled, so i can't -- i can't have me not be one of the three that has said congratulations and we're so proud of you. okay. the other thing i wanted to say, though, about betsy devos, can i say something else about betsy? >> sure. of course. >> e.j., what were you saying? oh, well, betsy devos was saying we want all children to be in school this fall. well, we also want all people to be back at the jobs they had. we want people not to be on unemployment. we want people to be able to hug their loved ones. we want all of those things, but, you know why i think we're not going to get them and i hate to say this, but i think the american people are the biggest hindrance to our solving the coronavirus epidemic here in our country. i just can't believe that people are still arguing about masks and going into bars and wanting to be at parties. what's wrong with the american people? people tell me. what's happening? why can't we all get together on this? >> well, and to that very point, and i will throw it over to you, dan, just got this from our great executive producer homey just sent it to me, 15,299 new cases in florida, the deaths are spiking, 4,242 plus 104 nonresidents have now died in the state of florida and i will throw one more thing and this is a poll out of texas, one of the other huge hot spots, biden now up to a 5-point lead at least according to this one poll, which is a dallas morning news ut tyler poll, so not a slouch of a point with a 2.24% margin of error. what do you make of that? is this finally catching up to donald trump and his republican governors? >> i do think it's finally catching up to president trump and the republican governors. i don't put much strength in the polls this early, it's not early -- it's still early. particularly with the texas poll, i'm speaking to you from austin, texas, today, i was born and raised here. i'm always suspicious of the polls that show democrats taking texas but then the election rolls around and it doesn't happen. i do think that what's happened with the coronavirus just these last few weeks where all semblance of any rational that president trump may have that is tumbled. we are on fire with coronavirus. we are the -- around the world not only are we leading, but we are made fun of. this is the only time in my lifetime that i can remember when americans were losing. we are losing this. if you want to use the one analogy, this is the early stages of world war ii or the early stages of the korean war. we are losing this and people are beginning to realize that we're losing it, the country is on fire with this and i do think it is very damaging to president trump and those republicans including republican governors who stick with him. >> yeah, it's humiliating and terrifying. well, i have an exciting thing we're going to turn to. this is called a pivot. this panel, my panel will be right back and for my last ever who won the week, this is the panel. somebody please take a screenshot of this panel that i was on with these folks because i need a screenshot and please send me that over twitter and i will save it into my phone. this illustrious panel of incredible journalists is going to tell us who won the week. don't go anywhere. that's next. don't go anywhere. that's next. i like liberty mutual. they get that no two people are alike and customize your car insurance so you only pay for what you need. incredible journalists is going incredible journalists is going . only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ for people with heart failure taking entresto, it may lead to a world of possibilities. entresto helped people stay alive and out of the hospital. don't take entresto if pregnant; it can cause harm or death to an unborn baby. don't take entresto with an ace inhibitor or aliskiren, or if you've had angioedema with an ace or arb. the most serious side effects are angioedema, low blood pressure kidney problems, or high blood potassium. ask your doctor about entresto. now it is time, i'm very excited about this, this incredible panel of news veterans is going to tell us who won the week. e.j. dionne, veteran of who won the week who knows exactly how to roll this, who won the week? >> well, besides you, i've got to say that i was really -- really struck by the historic significance of this particular who won the week, and so i was torn. i was politically joe biden won the week because this is a week where donald trump gave as clear a set of facts that anyone would need to vote him out of office, whether it's the corrupt commutation of roger stone's sentence or his suddenly appearing in a mask which shows -- symptomatic of the failure of his whole policy, but i wanted toggles russell westbrook, maybe because i'm excited by the return of nba basketball, but also because i loved what marcus smart a 26-year-old boston celtics star said. marcus smart came down with covid-19, he recovered. he is donating his plasma to the red cross so that it might help someone else out. here is what marcus smart said, he said, it's a very humbling experience just to know that somewhere someone in this this world, is going to take my plasma, and it could save their lives or it could at least give them a fighting chance. and i think that's the spirit we need going forward. from political leaders, cultural leaders, sports leaders and for immediamedia leaders. all of us should be committed to giving all of us a fighting chance. >> yeah, professional athletes are just amazing. so heroic and all standing up. whether it's lebron or this brilliant gentleman. colin kaepernick. go ahead. the wnba is slaying in terms of really standing up, so excellent, excellent, excellent. all right. that's a tough one to follow, but carol simpson, i know u you are skilled enough to do it. so i'm going to put the question to you. legend, legend of broadcasting, who won the week? >> again, like ej, i believe you won the week. by getting your show, but if i have to go with someone else, my pick is dr. anthony fauci. i am so consumed by the virus that i see everything almost in those terms. but dr. fauci, even though we didn't see him much last week, he won the week because it was clear that he has been sidelined by the white house. he's been gagged. he has been just put out to pasture. not meeting with the president for almost a month. more than a month. this is just outrageous. our best expert in america on infectious diseases and they have just put him aside so i think he's big because everybody knows now that he was telling the truth and the president who hired him has been telling the truth, so i think people going to be sayi inwe want fauci. we want fauci. >> absolutely, absolutely. amen, thank god for -- faudr. f. speaking of legends, watched you every night growing up on television. love your texasisms you would sprinkle into the new us. made it so much fun for me to watch. so i now humbly ask the legendary dan rather, down there in austin, texas, who, sir, won the week? >> you won the week. this new assignment, 7:00 in the eastern time zone, every weeknight on msnbc. it's joy's week. period. now, big week for women in general. keep in mind, the u.s. army, a woman for the first time, qualified for the breen barea and u.s. special forces. so a big week for women. amazing week this week. a major winner for the week. the supreme court decision in oklahoma that the united states government made the cherokees years ago shall be enforced. this was the biggest win i can recall for native americans in many years. >> absolutely. >> big, big week for them. >> absolutely. that was a, an outstanding, this is about the supreme court. so those are going to be tough the beat. i have three people who won the week. my husband u, jason, wins the week for sending me four screen grabs of me on with these legendary broadcasters. i don't know if you can see it from here. but jason got to me first, so i have now, no one can deny it. i was on, on air, with carole simps simpson, dan rath eer and my buddy, ej. look at god. right? look add god. >> first thing. >> just to be, listen, you all, you guys, i'm not worthy. but my second runner up in terms of who won the week. well this is my first runner up was that. my second who won the week, i don't know if they can get him, is we call him dante sound man, but his real name is michael dotten. i just found out it's his birthday. he's a proud gen xer. it's your birthday, so you're my second runner up, but my number one who won the week, and this is the dad of our very, very good friend of the show, rob rheiner. we love rob and his wife, michelle. they're such wonderful people. his dad, carl, unfortunately passed away. all our hearts were broken knowing this loss. not just a loss to rob's family, but also to the world. so i want to play this final video performance. because this man was so great. he created a fairy tale ending video that will break your heart, but it will also warm your spirits, so we're going to play that after i thank dan rather, carole simpson, ej. let's play that real quickly after i play this with you. thank you all very much. love you guys very much. >> a road to freedom and as dawn arose, wesley and butter cup knew they were safe. a wave of love swept over them and as they reach ed for each other, what, what? kissing again. you don't want to hear it. okay, i don't mind. >> okay. since the invention of the kiss, there have been five kisses that were rated the most passionate, the most pure, this one left them all behind. now i think you ought to go to sleep. okay. >> okay, okay. all right. so long. so lon g. (mom) come on, hurry up! all systems go? (mission control) 5 4 3 2... ignition and liftoff. (vo) audi e-tron. the next frontier of electric. a very good day, everyone, from msnbc here in new york. it is high noon in the east. 9:00 a.m. in the west. breaking news. a shocking spike in covid cases in one southern state and as the death rate rises, the debate on what to do about school heats up. >> you are compelling schools to reopen regardless of what's

Related Keywords

New York , United States , Australia , Marianna , Florida , Texas , Washington , Boston , Massachusetts , South Africa , California , Whitehouse , District Of Columbia , Wisconsin , Togo , Russia , Guatemala , Haiti , Michigan , Ukraine , Togo To , Togo General , Germany , Liberty City , Arizona , Maine , Denmark , Colorado , Ivanka , L Vivs Ka Oblast , Maryland , Ireland , South Korea , Dallas , Spain , Americans , New Yorker , Spanish , Soviet , Irish , American , Naveed Jamali , Mariana Atencio , Donald John , Marco Rubio , Maria Teresa , Liberty , Anthony Fauci , Carole Simpson , Joe Biden , America Sarah , Jared Kushner , Teresa Kumar Mariana , Jonathan Capehart , Scott Rasmussen , Tony Schwartz , Kelly Loeffler , John Lewis , Jamaal Bowman , Jeanine Pirro , Sarah Palin , Tucker Carlson , Carol Simpson , Mitch Mcconnell , Ron Desantis , Jennifer Rubin , Betsy Devos , Greg Abbott , Bristol Myers , Kristen Clark , Dan Rath ,