Transcripts For MSNBCW AM Joy 20200329

A startling claim about how he would handle the coronavirus. Some people would like to see new york quarantined because it is a hot spot, new york, new jersey, some other places, im thinking about that right now. We might not have to do it, but there is a possibility that sometime today well do a quarantine, shortterm, two weeks. That came as a surprise to everyone, including cuomo, who had some strong words in response. It would be exactly opposite everything he has said and everything he has done to date. I dont even believe it is legal. It would be chaos, and mayhem. Now, in this show yesterday, Laurence Tribe of Harvard University confirmed what we suspected all along, that cuomo was right and trump had no Constitutional Authority to claim he could quarantine whole states. Right on cue, trump almost immediately backed down. Tweeting that he has advised the cdc to issue a travel warning, but that he determined a quarantine will, quote, not be necessary. Not necessary . Man, try not legally possible. But go on apprentice guy, go off. Of course, it is hardly news that trump has always had designs on reigning as a monarch with Unlimited Power rather than serving as a mere president in a democracy. With the country facing an unprecedented Public Health crisis, what lengths might he, backed by an attorney general whose write aenings and actionst to a power, what lengths might he go to . Another case in point, the special Inspector General that the democrats fought tooth and nail for in the gargantuan 2. 2 trillion Economic Relief bill was supposed to be an objective third party, overseeing which megacorporations get bailouts and how they spend the money. But, again, right on cue, when trump signed the bill, he issued a signing statement, undermining the Inspector General provision and it reads, quote, i do not understand and my administration will not treat this provision as permitting the special Inspector General for Pandemic Recovery to issue reports to the Congress Without the president ial supervision required. Joining me, a man who helped craft that bill. Congressman Hakeem Jeffries of new york, chairman of the House Democratic caucus. And chairman jeffries, thank you for being here. Good morning. I want to lets go in reverse order. Because i do want to ask you about the special the person who is supposed to be overseeing that bailout. Im going to go back, you are in new york, what do you make of the fact that the president of the United States issued a casual, almost casual kind of blanket threat to quarantine the new york tristate area, new york, new jersey, connecticut, something he had no Constitutional Authority to do, freaked out a lot of people, who thought this was possible, and then immediately takes it back and the cdc, you know, he says, im going to have the cdc do a no travel order. What do you make of the fact he did that at all . Well, the big problem at this moment is that in times of crisis, leadership really matters. Governor cuomo is providing it for instance and donald trump is not. What we see from donald trump is that instead of operating in an evidencebased fashion, being guided by his Public Health professionals, hes freelancing in terms of whatever comes into his mind at any given moment, often what comes into his mind is wrong in this case, it is unconstitutional, and as Governor Cuomo pointed out would be counterproductive of the Public Health and safety of new yorkers and people throughout the country. Were seeing donald trump has a tremendous influence over his followers. His followers in some cases include elected officials. Lets take florida. You tweeted out last night, calling out the Florida Governor ron desantis who has been slow on the uptake of dealing with the coronavirus outbreak in his state, despite all the Senior Citizens and tourists there. You called him out for trying to scapegoat new yorkers. Said Florida Governor set up checkpoints on i95 to stop drivers from the new york city area. Instead of trying to scapegoat new yorkers, look in the mirror, this is the same guy who allowed thousands of spring breakers to wildly party on florida beaches for days, shameless. I will point out, you know, as a former florida resident, i can tell you broward county, we called it the sixth borough because so many new yorkers live there, live in the state, including donald trump, a palm beach resident. Your thoughts. Think about this. Governor desantis for weeks was in denial. So much so that effectively he kept the beaches open, thousands of young people were partying in close proximity, the very opposite of social distancing, it great harm and detriment of the people of florida and throughout the United States because many of these young people, of course, came from all over the country and some cases different parts of the world. And so instead of trying to scapegoat new yorkers, he should be trying to implement social distancing measures that make sense to protect the wellbeing of the people he serves in florida. But to your point, joy, i think what we have seen is that the right wing has taken on this mantra of trying to blame blue states whether thats california, new york, washington, and some cases, or engage in xenophobia and blame china and other instances, this is a very dead ly disease that knows no boundaries, thats why we should all be coming together to try to conquer covid19. Let me ask you one question as a member of democratic leadership, how will congress constrain donald trump who now put it in writing he plans to undermine the Inspector General, part of whose job is to make sure that companies dont misuse the bailout money to buy back their own stock or pay their executives, and to ensure that donald trump and his family and their company dont try to benefit from that bailout funds themselves. It is a very important point and very important issue, joy. This really Speaker Pelosi laid out, signifies the difference between what democrats are all about and what republicans are all about. We fought for a bill to protect displaced workers, Everyday Americans and Small Businesses and we made substantial progress in that direction. And more needs to be done. They fought for a bill, so essentially tried to create a corporate slush fund that donald trump could potentially abuse for his friends and his family. And we put in several Different Things to try to push back against that were successful. One, we prohibited any company that receives assistance from the federal government from using that money to pay bonuses, dividends, or engage in reckless stock buybacks. That was successful. We also put into law a five Member Committee that will be appointed by members of the house and the senate, poeth tbo minority and majority to provide oversight of this payer assistance. And the third piece was the designation of an Inspector General. Now, thats in law. Donald trumps signing statements are merely words. This may lead to another constitutional class that winds up in the courts, and well have to explore that remedy, but we do think that they are also other strong protections that have been built into the law to guard against the type of cronyism we have seen repeatedly from the Trump Administration. Do you foresee democrats having to take this administration to court because we know that the history of Steve Mnuchin is that Congress Says they want to see Donald Trumps taxes, he refuses. Congress puts out subpoenas during is this going to wind up being just another case of the Trump Administration in court with members of congress or with congress tryinging to prevent this Inspector General from making reports to the legislative branch . Well, well have to cross that bridge when we get to it. What i do think is important is that the president under the c. A. R. E. S. Act has been given the authority to nominate an Inspector General, but the senate has to confirm that Inspector General and i would expect there will be robust hearings, in terms of the confirmation, and robust consideration of who is actually qualified to engage in this endeavor, given the reckless nature of the Trump Administration and hopefully the senate will do its constitutional duty and ensure that whoever is confirmed has the integrity and the intelligence and the independence to safeguard american taxpayer money. That term qualifies doing a lot of work there. We have seen a lot of people put up for judges and jobs, a tough one. Up to the senate. Congressman Hakeem Jeffries, thank you very much, stay safe. Stay safe, thank you. Now we want to turn to congressman joe naguze. Ill jump right into it, you tweeted out imploring mike pompeo for help bringing americans home. This is your tweet. My staff is working around the clock to help get constituents home from peru. Over 60 of my colleagues joined me yesterday in imploring the secretary of state to help but he cant be bothered. Pick up the phone and help us get our fellow americans home. There are cruise passengers still stuck in limbo on ships in which some have been taken off who are ill and others cannot make land because they are not being permitted. Tell us the status of trying to get americans who are essentially stranded due to this outbreak back into the United States, into their homes. Well, thank you, great to be with you. The good news is since that tweet, there has been substantial progress made by folks in the state department in terms of repatriating people back home. As you know, there are thousands of americans including many coloradans who are essentially stranded in a variety of Different Countries across the globe and certainly at the beginning of this crisis the state department was slow to respond. And we were very frustrated by the inability of the state department and the secretary of state to show bold leadership as has been the case in other countries where they have taken every step that they can to repatriate their respective citizens back to those countries. So the good news is i said thanks to the work of so many in congress, the various individuals in the state department, i believe are now taking this very seriously, we had a number of constituents arrive back home in the last few days, for example, from peru. We anticipate we can get each and every american back home safely. Well continue to fight for that as are my colleagues. Lets talk about other issues regarding the way this outbreak is impacting people. We just had on representative Hakeem Jeffries, he and cory booker, senators cory booker and Kamala Harris have introduced legislation that would immediately free inmates who are pregnant, have Underlying Health issues, are over 50, into community supervision, outside of prison, unless they pose a violent threat to the community. Thats a response they would like to see in terms of the way that people are being treated. I want to play vince warren, who is the executive director of the centers for Constitutional Rights on this show last night. Take a listen. Or yesterday. The same amount of energy that it takes to get the state and the city to get all of us to shelter in place, to socially distance, to turn off businesses, thats the type of energy that we need with respect to our prisons. We have to stop thinking about people as criminal elements and start thinking about them as equal. We stop schools. We close colleges. We have done all of these Amazing Things and yet we expect to have these four men and women to sit there while this virus spreads. Can you tell us what congress can do to try to move that forward . We know in some states there are moves to try to release prisoners and to space people out so people arent they arent turning into petri dishes. What can the federal government do in. There is a lot we can do. Im optimistic that we can get something done, we can make some progress on this particular issue. Our caucus chairman introduced a bill that has bicameral support in the senate that would direct the department of justice and the bureau of prisons to consider very carefully the potential humanitarian release of certain individuals under certain conditions. Individuals who dont pose a threat to public safety, individuals already slated to be released in the course of the next six, eight, 12 months and who are in vulnerable populations. At the end of the day, as chairman jeffries said, this virus does not discriminate. It does not matter what state you live in, what you look like, or what Political Party you affiliate with for that matter. At the end of the day, were all in this together as americans. I would think the dop and the other statebased corrections agencies ought to be taking present steps to make sure that their populations as well, you know, are in the potentially creating an epicenter of sorts for this virus to metastasize and spread further. Congressman joe neguse, thank you very much, stay safe. Im thinking about all of you in colorado this morning. Thank you. Joining me now is congressman ray luhan. Of new mexico who serves as the assistant house speaker. Thank you for being here, congressman. I want to talk about another issue that a lot of people are bringing up as were looking at trying to help people who are now struggling economically because of this outbreak. Donald trump is pushing to knock hundreds of thousands of people off of food stamps. Here is a quote from a piece in rolling stone, a rule change that the usda is looking to put in place would halt states ability to waive certain work and time limit requirements for snap recipients. The change would remove approximately 700,000 people from snap roles starting on april 1st. The federal snap requirements mandate ablebodied adults without dependents must show they have worked at least 80 hours per month for more than three months in a 36month period to stay on a snap program. You cant do when people are being laid off. Here is what bishop barber had to say about the way the poor are treated, even in the bill that congress passed. This stimulus actually leaves out millions. We dont have a prohibition against water shutoff. We dont have a prohibition against evictions. Millions of people, part time workers, that means they get nothing. They dont have paid sick leave. It didnt provide the 50 billion we need for child care. It didnt do anything about Health Insurance for the uninsured. Congressman, what can be done regarding the food stamp provisions, as well as will there be a consecutive bill that will just specifically with people who didnt make it into this bill, people who are quite poor and were already struggling before this began . Well, joy, look, this is another example of heartless policy coming from this administration. I cant understand why President Trump and those around him cant understand that people are suffering. They lost jobs through no fault of their own. People are staying home, people need to eat. And this is something that has to be held accountable, the congress will continue to take action. One of the provisions in the bill that we passed was to increase supplemental nutrition assistance programs so that the most vulnerable amongst us are able to get access to food. We need to do everything we can to push against this policy and many others that President Trump is putting forward that just hurts people across america. Let me play for you the speaker of the house this morning, on cnn and talked about an issue we talked about a lot on this show that seems to be a gnawing problem, testing and the lack of it. Take a listen. The president , his denial at the beginning was deadly. His delaying of getting equipment to where it continues is delaying getting equipment to where it is needed is deadly. And now i think the best thing would be to do is to prevent more loss of life rather than open things up so that because we just dont know. We had to have testing, testing, testing. It is pretty stark to hear the speaker of the house call the president of the United States actions deadly. But, you know, some states have done better than others in terms of trying to get testing rolled out. What can congress do to get more tests available into more states so that we can start to get a handle on how many people have been exposed to coronavirus . Look, our governor in new mexico is doing a great job in making more testing available. But she has expressed to us as we heard from other governors that theyre having problems with this. President trumps comments initially when it came out, he ignored it. He said this is going to pass, dont worry about it. He refused to invoke the defense production act in order to push everyone to be making all of the protective equipment that people need and the tests and congress will continue to push each and every one of the pieces of legislation we put forward was with an emphasis to test, to test more, to continue to make sure that everyone across the country can get access to a test, and that theyre not charged. But the next phase will be important as well, joy, democrats in the house and senate have been insistent that when there is a vaccine that we are able to get, that it is available to everyone. And that it is going to be available free. Were concerned that republicans in the house and the senate and President Trump himself are going to continue to prey upon the most vulnerable among us as opposed to providing support, take this seriously, mr. President , we need leadership, get the tests out, make sure youre providing all the support to states, even in new mexico, were still at about 50 of the equipment that we need to keep people safe and keep people tested. Yeah, indeed. Congressman, thank you very much, sir, stay safe. Next up, we will talk to a couple of doctors on the front lines of the battle against the coronavirus. Lines of the battle against the coronavirus. Cologuard colon Cancer Screening for people 45 plus at average risk. 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But when youre with fidelity, a partner who makes sure every step is clear, theres nothing to stop you from moving forward. They have businesses to grow customers to care for lives to get home to they use stamps. Com print discounted postage for any letter any package any time right from your computer all the Amazing Services of the post office only cheaper get our special tv offer a 4week trial plus postage and a digital scale go to stamps. Com try and never go to the post office again every shift at work ive cried because of the pain and suff suffering we see. Every time i leave from the shift, im frustrated. Were doing everything we can to help everyone, to see everyone, to treat everyone, but we have limited resources. Doctors and healthcare workers on the front lines have been sounding the alarm for weeks about the lack of equipment, hospital beds and resources desperately needed to treat an influx of covid19 patients. In many cases hospitals dont have enough equipment even to shield hospital staff and healthcare workers from contracting coronavirus. The virus that causes covid19 illness. As the number of covid19 cases continue to rise, were starting to see that very crisis unfold in hospitals across the country. On saturday, Miamidade County reported their third coronavirusrelated fatality, a veteran nurse at Jackson Memorial hospital. Joining me is dr. Cory aber and sampson davis, author of living and dying in brick city. Thank you for being here. We one of the stories that shook everyone in the country was the death of this young nurse, who is, i believe, the first to die, you know, related to treating his patients who sent the message im okay, dont tell mom and dad, theyll worry, he wrote this to his sister, this was the first nurse in new york city to die of the coronavirus. Were starting to see there he is, you cant have a Healthcare System thatfunctions if the doctor and nurses are at risk of getting sick. How far behind the curve are we . Were very far behind the curve. He want everyone to picture this scenario. Think about new orleans, louisiana. Millions of people gather. Everybody has seen mardi gras, right . Imagine thousands of drones hovering overhead, dropping glitter, all over those crowds. You know how hard glitter is to get off of clothing and faces when you got home, you cant get it off, you still see glimmers after you wash it. Think about the glitter as the coronavirus. That scene with millions of people, thats new york city every day at 5 00. It is detroit. It is chicago every day at 5 00. Thats why you see hot spots all over the city and all over the country. What we realize now is that we saw this actually happen. We dont have to imagine what would happen. In 1918 in philadelphia, you see that beautiful curve that you are trying to flatten all the time, you see a spike on that curve, and you see a flat curve. And in 1918, in philadelphia, they had a parade, the liberty loan parade and they exposed 200,000 people to these spanish h1n1 flu. And what happened is that 12,000 people died in the sixweek period. If you see that second curve, which were trying to emulate now, it was st. Louis. They quarantined at that particular time and they had hundreds of people that were affected. What we have to remember is that glitter that is all over everywhere, that is coronavirus. And what we have to remember is this. We know the numbers of people that are recovered from this disease globally is 82 . Globally have recovered after the case is closed. Okay . If we dont do anything, 82 of people would theoretically die and those 18 , thats your grandmother, your grandfather, those are your friends, immunocompromised folks. We must flatten the curve and social distance. No way around this. It is not a doomsday prediction because we are in control. You can take control of what you need to take control of and feel comfortable. 18 , i think we said it reverse, 18 are those who die and 82 of those who would live. Lets go to dr. Sampson davis. This is the other challenge were having. This ventilator back and forth between the governor of new york and donald trump who is not an expert and has no expertise and does not know what new york or any state needs, new york has ordered thousands of manually operated pump ventilators as the cases surge. This lack of ventilators, if donald trump refuses to take the federal action that he could take to try to really ramp up very quickly the number of ventilators that could be produced in this country by manufacturers, what then . Without sufficient numbers of ventilators, im not sure i understand how you treat the patients. We cant. Thats the short answer for the patients that are critical and need oxygenation, need to be intubated, on the ventilator, thats a small percent, but with the total numbers, it becomes a large number of people who need ventilation and need to be on a ventilator. Without that machine, were doomed. We need more ventilators, were running out of hospital space, especially in certain regions of the country. New yorks epicenter is the hot spot. Louisiana, were seeing chicago, illinois, detroit, michigan, were seeing california, were seeing these places where the numbers are surging and increasing and so the need for ventilation and more hospital space and beds is now. Were so behind the eight ball, we have to catch up and make sure we have treatment spaces and adequate testing as best as we can, Supportive Care is important. One moment, dr. Davis you had this Holland America story, where you have people sick on board this ship, embarked on the 12th of march that now cant dock, the healthy are being separated from the sick. 100 passengers moved off the ship. Theyre not letting the rest of the passengers off the ship. What should be done in a case like that . Well, it is unfortunate. The challenge we have is a lot of this is were figuring out as we move along, were doing things we can, but the virus is spreading so rapidly and so aggressively that were trying to figure things out as we move. Unfortunately until we have a better answer, the passengers have to be quarantined on the ship for 14 days. And the ones that are well, that show no symptoms, then they can be removed from the ship. I want to go back to you, dr. Hebert, the subject of dr. Oz, a lot of people watched his show, a very popular show, but here he was pushing he pushed a drug in question a malaria drug during a virtual town hall. I wont play the clip because it would be damaging for people to see at this point, that the Surgeon General of the United States said to immediately run out and warned viewers against trying this malaria drug as a treatment for coronavirus after essentially dr. Oz told fox news viewers hes testing this drug. How dangerous is it that people got the word doctor in front of their name, have credibility with a lot of viewers, are throwing out theorys what people should be doing to treat themselves . This is a very dangerous practice. The reason why is because that drug that actually treats malaria also treats lupus, okay . So now what you have is a shortage of the medicine because people are hoarding the medicine because they want to make sure that if this gets even more out of control, that they will have medicine to be treating themselves, okay . And that means that the people that really need the medicine dont have it. Thats a selfish thing to do. Doctors are scrambling, yesterday was the first day that i had to move a doctor from the icu to another place because of overcrowding of patients and not having enough doctors to go around because the doctors are now getting sick, which is very important. So when doctors are irresponsible that way, we dont have the fda treatment to treat this drug to treat this disease right now. And we need to be very careful about how we start to progress when we think about all of the people that are going to start hoarding this medicine and taking it away from people that need it. When you do stuff like that, you give false hope. You have false hope, you panic. When you panic, then you increase your stress hormones and when you increase your stress hormones, your immune system goes down and youre more apt to get the disease anyway. We want people not to panic but do what they can do to stay in control. Common sense for a reason. The glitter analogy is striking. Thank you so much. Appreciate both of you. Stay safe. Coming up, the trump Coronavirus Disinformation Campaign is starting to spread. Thats next. Mation campaign is starti tngo spread thats next. Erica, ive got something to say. Completing your 2020 census could mean smoother roads. Or more emergency rooms. Or more representation in our government. The census counts us all. And an accurate count helps inform where billions go every year. So, dont miss your chance to be counted. Were kind of depending on you here. Complete the census, online, by phone, or by mail. Shape your future. Start here at 2020census. Gov. But allstate helps you. With drivewise. Feedback that helps you drive safer. And that can lower your cost now that you know the truth. Are you in good hands . Unlike ordinary wmemory supplementsr . Neuriva has clinically proven ingredients that fuel 5 indicators of brain performance. Memory, focus, accuracy, learning, and concentration. Try neuriva for 30 days and see the difference. How would you describe the job President Trump is doing behind the scenes and in front of the cameras during the daily pr prev i briefings were seeing . Hes been so attentive to the Scientific Research and data and i think his ability to analyze and integrate data that comes out of his long history in business is really has been a real benefit during these discussions about medical issues. Come on, lady. Attentive to the Scientific Data . Dr. Deborah birx was known as a ledge end legend in the fight against hiv aids before she came into contact with president donald trump. And now her credibility is now dying. That appearance on christian Broadcasting Television is one example of the lengths, even the experts around trump, often have to go to in order to appease him, even if it means saying things that arent true to avoid being attacked or silenced or fired. Trump has spent much of the crisis not trying to repair the damage and delaying the u. S. Response, but by attacking democratic governors who are trying to manage this pandemic and make up for his failures to save the lives of their constituents. Trump is, unfortunately, not the only one misleading the American Public in ways that could be dangerous. Check out what this tv doctor had to say about covid19 this week on fox friends. I think a lot of doctors are feeling that the worry, the panic about coronavirus is going to be worse than the actual coronavirus for them. And if we can balance that out , for first few months we were all saying, wake up, this is a problem, now the medical community is saying step it back, youre going to be fine. Joining me is former secretary of health and Human Services under president obama kathleen sebelius, the former governor of kansas. Joining me dr. Ashish jha. What do you make of dr. Ozs pronouncement this is all overblown . So, it is certainly not consistent with the data and it is not consistent with any of the doctors and nurses im talking to. I think the medical Community Remains very, very worried about this. They remain very worried about our response. People are going to go out there and take care of sick patients coming into our doors but we need to protect our doctors and nurses. I think people are pretty worried. Let me play for you, secretary sebelius, here is the map of all of the territories and state disease claired by fema to be major disaster. If you look at it there, you can see it is mostly blue states on the coast and also texas, louisiana, florida, you know, in the south. There it is. And now let me play you the way that donald trump is treating governors and, again, these are mostly blue states. Here is how trump has been treating the governors of these states. We have people like governor inslee, he should be doing more. He shouldnt be relying on the federal government. Thats the state of washington. He was a failed president ial candidate and, you know, hes always complaining. Your governor of michigan, i mean, shes not stepping up. I dont know if she knows whats go on. All she does is sit there and blame the federal government. Some of the governors, they take, take, take and then complain. They take and you did a great job, you build them a hospital, you do other theyre always complaining, so i dont like that. As a former governor yourself, what do you make of this president s treatment of governors who are struggling to keep ahead of this pandemic based on the fact that theyre not nice enough to him, not praising him, not solicitous enough. What do you make of it . Well, joy, i think it is terrifying. I was a governor. I went through a number of natural disasters within our state borders as a governor. The federal government is unique in the resources and the logistical power and the ability to respond in a way that governors cannot. So what this president has done is defy what senator obama used to say before he became president is that we dont have red states and blue states, we are the United States. You saw Congress Step up as the United States congress in a remarkable threepackage stimulus to try and keep the economy afloat to get money into peoples pockets, to get supplies only to have this president invite only republicans to stand with him, not democrats, not the speaker of the house. You have governors now who are in competition with each other, nothing could be more dangerous, the governors cannot have the kind of supplies, cannot evaluate what is happening in terms of what the United States has. The only only the federal government can respond in a fair and equitable manner. They have to ramp up production of protective equipment as doctor jha mentioned. We need space, we need supplies and we need staff in hospitals. You need to protect the healthcare workers who still have not all been tested and we need to make sure as we move forward that logistically we get ready for what is coming way down the road, which is a National Vaccination campaign. Only the federal government can be fair and equitable, only the federal government can mobilize this effort and then distribute it in an equal fashion. Nothing could be more terrifying than having a president who says because you live in a state that votes mostly democratic, were paying no attention to you. We will only Pay Attention to this part of the country, because i got to tell you, this is coming into red america. We will have multiple waves of this virus in this country. And we have a situation where were in the all going to seat virus at the same time, but we need to be the United States of america. And our president has to get over that this is not about him, it is about the health and security of all americans. Yeah, that picture of donald trump standing, it is only white men around him and theyre all standing there, not even representing the way the country is yeah. As if it is a club that no one else should get into. Aaron rapar wrote a piece, it is possible birx is doing what she thinks needs to be done to preree mainpr remain a positive influence. It brings to mind a comment that dr. Fauci made to politico a day after birxs appointment. You should never destroy your own credibility. You dont want to go to war with a president , fauci said, but you got to walk the fine balance of making sure you continue to tell the truth. And with that, let me play a little bit of dr. Birx on unused icu beds and this claim shes making there is not a lack of beds. Take a listen. We are reassured and meeting with our colleagues in new york that there are still icu beds remaining and still significant, over a thousand or 2,000 ventilators not used yet. To say that to the american people, to make the implication that when they need a hospital bed, it is not going to be there or they need that ventilator, it is not going to be there, we dont have an evidence of that right now. Dr. Jha, that is just not true. It is shocking to hear that coming out of her mouth. Or am i wrong . Your thoughts . So, look, ive known dr. Birx for a long time. She is extraordinary both in her leadership and her credibility. What she is saying is right now we dont have it. Of course right now we dont have it. We dont have the full surge yet. I think the question is are we going to have it in a week, two weeks, there is a lot of reason to worry we will not. And so when Governor Cuomo or most Health Analysts say we are going to have a shortage and need to get going on it right now, i think that is undoubtedly true. So im worried about where this is going. And i think that we have to kind of level with people that were heading towards a potential shortage. You know dr. Birx. Do you think she would be willing to say that when it comes to it . So, again it very hard for me, i dont want to play armchair quarterback here, shes looking at different data than i am. But i am looking at a lot of data that makes me extremely worried about whether were going to have enough ventilators and icu beds and doctors and nurses to take care of people. I think it would be useful for her, shes saying now we dont have a shortage, fine, we havent had the surge yet. But i think would be helpful if she came out and was very and levelled with the american people, that we got to work really hard to make sure we dont end up in a shortage. Thats where were heading. Yeah. Absolutely. Good advice. Hopefully shell take it. Secretary kathleen sebelius, thank you. Dr. Ashish jha, thank you very much. Trump propaganda, traffic and weather together, a closer look at Media Coverage and its impact on the polls. T media covs impact on the polls. 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Shape your future. Start here at 2020census. Gov. I want to make a quick clarification to something we discussed earlier in the show. The Trump Administrations move to cut people off food stamps has been blocked for now by federal court order. Coming up, what you believe about this pandemic might believe where youre getting your news. More am joy after the break. Because there are options. Like an unjection™. Xeljanz xr, a oncedaily pill for adults with moderate to severe ra for whom methotrexate did not work well enough. Xeljanz xr can reduce pain, swelling and further joint damage, even without methotrexate. Xeljanz can lower your ability to fight infections like tb; dont start xeljanz if you have an infection. Taking a higher than recommended dose of xeljanz for ra can increase risk of death. Serious, sometimes fatal infections, cancers including lymphoma, and blood clots have happened. 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You need the power to handle anything. You need versatile performance matchedattachments. You need the 1 selling compact tractor for a decade. The kubota l series tractors. The coronavirus this is their new hoax. We have it totally under control. Its one person coming in from china. One day its a miracle. It will disappear. When you have 15 people and within a couple of days its going to be down close to zero. We think weve done a great job keeping it to zero. People are surprised i understand it. No, i dont take responsibility at all. Priorities usa is responsible for the content of this ad. Welcome back to am joy. Donald trump and his Reelection Campaign are trying to hard to prevented you from seeing that ad. The president s campaign ad is threatening to sue, and telling them they could lose their operating licenses if they dont take it down. The ad was created by the Democratic Political action committee, priorities usa and airing in the swing states of florida, michigan, pennsylvania and wisconsin. And theres nothing inaccurate about it because it uses actual sound bites uttered by donald trump since the start of the coronavirus outbreak in the u. S. So, why is he so exercised about that so ad, especially since he knows he has his partys media wrapped around his Little Finger to paint him in the right light . Heres fox friends and it contains some revisionist history. This is not the time for partisanship, not the time for politics. Rally around the commander in chief. Hes the wartime president. Lets win this quar. Theyre all playing the blame game. I was watching sean Hannity Interview the president , and he said to Governor Cuomo, 30,000 ventilators . I would love to give you those but some hospitals only have one. He said, he really need 30,000 . If you do, well do our best but its complicated. Theyre expensive to make. Well, one answer is that donald trump is not just any politician. Hes a tv guy. Hes been in media much longer than hes been in politics. And surely he understands that an ad like the priorities ad broadcast during local and Network Programming and news in key states could potentially reach a massive audience and break through his b. S. Field, cutting through the smaller bites of trump that you often get on local and Network News Coverage that tends to normalize him because they come to the viewer in a more filtered way without any commentary or, if its the sinclair net, its likely to be pro trump. This week theres been a lot of buzz about three new polls which showed trump in rare positive territory for his handling of this pandemic, despite all that we know about the failures and his mistakes. Take a look. 60 in gallups poll, 52 in the a abc News Washington post poll and monday moth university, 50 all approve of his handling, although respondents told monmouth they were more satisfied with their state governors by 22 points. The Political Science way to explain thes numbers for donald trump that are in the positive territory is there is this natural rally effect for any president during a national crisis. Like bill clintons tenpoint bump after ordering an air strike on iraq for refusing to comply with u. N. Weapons inspectors or president obamas who went up five points after the sandy hook shooting and president george bush who skyrocketed to 90 after 9 11. In the same instance, the same pollsters found trumps rally affect hasnt changed his job Approval Rating to crack 50 . Trump will ultimately be judged by his success or failure in response to this ultimate crisis, the poll in november. Polls dont matter compared to the real story that the whole country is watching unfold the loss of human life. And joining me now is michael steele, msnbc political analyst and former rnc chairman, jennifer rubin, msnbc political analyst and opinion writer for the washington post, carol simpson, legendary journalist who moderated the 1992 president ial debate between george h. W. Bush, bill clinton and ross perot and Gabriel Sherman author of the loudest voice in the room. Carol, im going to go to you first. Those that worked in local news and network news, and you are a legend in the network category, understand there is a different way trump is filtered in network and local news, particularly in local news. In local news what leads is the local story, the person who died, the in urs wnurse who diee human tragedy that affects the local community is what leads and there arent commentary of donald trump. There are little bites of him when he does a twohow longlong press conference, not the whole props press conference, so the content of him in larger context isnt there. You see the government is doing x and y, so it didnt surprise me he bumped up a little bit. What do you make of that . Do we have carol . We might not have carol. Lets hold off oh, there are you. There you are. Did you hear my question . I did hear your question. I was trying to answer it. Do you hear me fine . Yes, we hear you now. I was in local news, like you, joy, and local news is the news thats closest to the people. It talks about their weather the next day, about what their sports team did, the crime that occurred in their communities. So, americans tend to favor local news over network news or cable news. Because its about them and their hometown. And when the anchors and the reporters for those local stations have an opportunity to cover the president , thats a really big deal. So, theres not a lot of criticism, not a lot of analysis of what the president s doing. They take it as it happens. This is what he said. This is what he did today. Thats pretty much it. So, because people look at local news rather than the networks and cable, theyre getting a very different impression of the president than what they would receive from the other outlets. Gabe, you know, there is a selfselection after that of people who, you know, take in a lot more news. Thats the people who watch cable news, right . People who are watching cable news are a lot more in the news junkie category and then in the case of that, your choices are msnbc or cnn or, if youre choosing fox, its because it favors the republicans. Its because its news that favors your world view. Thats why youre watching it. So, i think people assume everyone knows the failures of the Trump Administration. Theyll find out when it hits them. Depending on what youre watching, you know more or you know less. Without question, i think thats been a fixture of this presidency from day one. If you look at polls that show republicans views on certain issues, its a completely different reality than people who gather their news from a wide array of sources. Whats really interesting, i think unique about the coronavirus story is that fox news tried to do their original playbook, which was dismiss it as a hoax, say that this is another partisan attempt by democrats to hurt donald trump, and this was the case where they could not prevent reality. Fox news is a very powerful media organization, but it cannot stop people from dropping dead. What happened is that people did start dying. We did see hot spots in new york, on the west coast and now were seeing one in the deep south, which is getting closer to trump country, and fox news has had to pivot to actually cover this as a real story. The president s handling of this is going to be viewed ultimately by how we get out of it, but this is a case where at least on the macro story of us understanding of what is happening in america, fox viewers are now confronting what the rest of us have known since february and early march is that this is a Global Pandemic that is unprecedented in american history. To stay you with for a moment, the irony is fox news is in new york. Its literally across the street from msnbc. Its in rockefeller plaza. They are in the middle of it with all the other new yorkers. We saw trish regan come out and label it all a fraud. Shes now no longer there. I dont know what happened with her show but i guess its not airing anymore. You have had fox anchors who are as likely as anyone on this panel to know someone who gets sick with covid19. Its interesting to have to watch them confront reality, as you say, is deadly reality, that they cant cover for trump on this. Theres no way they can keep doing it. I wonder if the same sort of dynamic is going to happen with sinclair, which is ten times its fox times ten and in your traffic and weather together and theyve tried to also spin things in his favor. They do add commentary from people like former trump officials. How are they handling it . This is a question thats more deceptive about sinclair is their local newscasts are not labeled as a sinclair channel. You dont know it has a rightwing ideology behind the owners of the local news station, so youre absorbing it as if its just Straight Network news. I just want to get back to the fox of it all real quick. When ive been talking to fox insiders over the last few days, theres a real concern inside the network that their early downplaying of the coronavirus actually exposes fox news to potential legal action by viewers who maybe were misled and have actually died from this. Ive heard trish regans being taken off the air is, you know, reflective of this concern that fox news is in big trouble by downplaying this virus and the New York Times reported days ago that the Murdoch Family was privately taking the coronavirus seriously. The murdochs, of course, own fox news. They were taken personal steps to protect themselves while anchors like trish regan and sean hannity were telling viewers it was a hoax and putting themselves in potentially mortal danger. In this case, foxs coverage, if it proves people died because of it, this is a new terrain of fox possibly being held liable for their actions. Its interesting. It will be interesting to see how long they let dr. Oz go on and on and on with what hes been saying on that network with what youve been saying. Michael steele, you used to run the rnc, you were in charge of strategy for the Republican Party during the obama era because the Republican Party has a challenge here. This virus does not care if youre republican or democrat. It does not care where you live. It is a virus that is equal opportunity deadly. So, the Republican Party, it stands by trump no matter what. No matter what he does, hes right, hes always right as far as hes concerned. How do they now handle the fact their own constituents, if youre the governor of florida, but florida has more population than new york, more Senior Citizens than new york, tourism is equal to new york. You have cruise ships and beaches he allowed to stay full. How do republican governors pivot away from Donald Trumps nonchalant and pivot away and stay in his good graces . Its going to be hard for the simple reason that the math works against you. The reality is as more and more testing gets into the hands of these red state governors, that reality comes home a lot faster. It will be in stark relief and it is going to be hard, as fox found out, to continue the narrative in the face of science that belies that. Thats the space were in right now. One thing ive been keen on, and i think part of what you see on the fox story is members of the media stepped in and pushed back at the way fox was telling the story. This was beyond politics. This wasnt about the political battles between fox and msnbc, for example. And so that began to change the course of this as well where you have reporters reporting on the disinformation and the misinformation that potentially was harming people. So that for me was a very big turning point in this overall narrative because trumps going to continue to do, as you know, joy, what trump does. His expectation is all the mi minnions around him will follow his lead but fox is breaking from that. And ms. Regan is a reality of that reality coming home to fox because of the point just made. There are potential liabilities. Thats why its important for the press, in my view, and im writing a piece on this now, to stay in the lane and providing just the facts, maam. Here is what you need to know to protect yourself. Even in our opinion areas because people dont distinguish between the news and the opinion. They see it all as one thing so when sean says something, theres no difference between what sean hannity says or what brett reports. Thats the space we need to close. Thats the gap we need to close so people understand that what theyre hearing is information and facts to save their lives and their families lives. Absolutely. And fox news viewers are the oldest average viewers. They are in the epicenter of the crisis point for this virus. Jennifer, you wrote a piece, an oped called four factors will determine trumps fate. If you think the coronavirus is a passing blip in our national life, you will likely expect trump to come through this unscathed and still get credit for what is a good economy before disaster struck. If, however, you take seriously the economic and health modeling showing this enormous toll the virus will take on us, do not expect voters to award trump with reelection. The buck actually does stop with him. I think a lot of democrats and liberals dont believe that. I think they believe because his supporters wont care no matter what he does, even if it hurts them, they will never walk away from him. A lot of people are dubious about that. Why do you think donald trump will ultimately be held accountable for his actions or inaction here . I think one of the factors we havent yet talked about is there has been a geographic evolution of this story. Right now the big numbers are in new york, in washington state, in california. But those numbers are beginning to soar in red america, in places like louisiana, in places like florida. So suddenly this is not a new york story. This is not a blue state story. This becomes a red state story. And when you are out of work for a prolonged period of time and or people are dying around you, it is very hard, particularly if this president and the republicans fear this greatly, have a record on video of having downplayed it, having sort of put the seriousness of this in a condescending, remote way and i think when push comes to shove and youre seeing it now in florida, to numbers are soaring. Do you think those people will remember their governor allowed spring break to go on . I think so. Do you think the people in michigan will remember that donald trump went to war with their governor calling her that woman. They have essentially been told, unless your governor sucks up to us, youre not getting any help. Thats an extraordinary threat. Do you think hes damaged his credibility, his reputation in michigan . I think so. And i think those epicenters sit home in every single state, the important, the neutrality of your local news. When your governor says, we didnt get the ventilators from donald trump, and, therefore, our hospitals are maxed out, are stressed, i think that does begin to hit home. And we really havent talked too much about the economics of this. We saw 3 million applications for unemployment the other day. Its going to get worse because those didnt reflect the shutdowns of the economy and some of the bigger states, nor did it reflect the fact that people had trouble getting through on the phone lines to unemployment offices. So, that number is going to be scary big. Were coming up on the jobs number for the entire month of march this upcoming friday. Thats going to be a scary number. And i got to say, the president who has been crowing when the sun rises and taking credit for that, the guy who says, the stock market is all my doing, is very hard when all things go to hell to say none of this is my responsibility. And thats, i think, the centrality of why that ad is so powerful because it reminds people again and again and again, this guy blew it. He was sitting down on the job. He was sloughing off. He put you in danger. If we had gotten ahead of this quicker, maybe the deaths would be fewerings maybe the economy wouldnt be so awful. The constant reminder that this guy is the one who was slow off the mark, this is the guy who was denying help to your governor, arguing with your governor, i think that does take a toll. Ultimately, i think all of us have acknowledged, its going to be what the facts are. And i have unfortunately, i hope im wrong but i have a very pessimistic view of where this is going. And i think the reality will hit home. Inc. The economy is going to be for the foreseeable future in real trouble. And the deaths just doubled in the space of two days. That is horrifying for most americans. Were getting were going to when we hit that number thats the 9 11 number, its going to be shocking to a lot of people you. You have the Lieutenant Governor in texas saying people should go to work and die for the economy. Things are going to come back. I want to go back to carol. Donald trump thinks his his campaign thinks they can stop this ad, which would break through the traffic and weather together. This isnt the only ad. Every single ad from joe bidens campaign has the same clips in it. All the ads from the lincoln i think theyre called the lincoln foundation. Theyre coming out over and over and over, replaying his words. Is it not true that he cannot stop that reality from hitting people when theyre seeing the a block in their local news being the death of a nurse or doctor or grandmother. Its going to be hard to stop the reality, even in broadcast in local . I understand, but, joy, id like to bring up the fact hes having these Coronavirus Task force press briefings right at the time local news is playing its biggest shows between 5 00 and 6 00. And he is preempting all these shows are being preempted. My daughter is a medical correspondent for wbz here in boston and she has been preparing stories all day long. And then the president comes on and it knocks off the local news. They stay on till 7 00. So, the local stations are losing money because they cant run the commercials that were bought for that time period. And the local folks that are expecting their local news on are getting trump, trump, trump the whole time. So, i think its he is trying to override by taking hogging this air time that is so critical to the local stations and to the local people that i just wonder if hes going to be hurt by them. Joy thats a very good point. I think a lot of people had been thinking he was timing these to try to hit the close of the stock market, but youre its a good point, carol, that hes overriding the local news so that people cant get the information that they need. Im sorry, i think i cut who did i cut off . Were out of time. Very quickly. I just wanted to put exclamation points around everything carol just said because at the top of the hour, you talked about the showmanship, the man who does television. He knows his audience. He knows what this audience is doing at 5 00 in the afternoon. He knows where they are now because most of them are at home. Hes captured this hour, this time, to do his press rally in the beginning and then he turns it over to the Vice President to give the information and the data of the day. The second thing is it takes him out of competition with mauro cuomo. Hes irked as hell at mario cuomos performance is eclipsing his own. This is in the morning and mario would come on after. He says, were going to andrew cuomo. Mario was the dad. He flipped the script do hes probably mad at mario cuomo for producing andrew. You made an excellent point. Hes making every station fox news. Terrifying. Great panel. Thank you very much. Stay safe. Next up, some of trumps favorite conservative religious leaders make their own wildly dangerous claims about a worldwide pandemic. Claims abouta worldwide pandemic in nearly 100 years serving the military community, weve seen you go through tough times and every time, youve shown us, youre much tougher your heart, courage and commitment has always inspired us and now its no different so, were here with financial strength, stability and experience you can depend on and the online tools you need because you have always set the highest standard and reaching that standard is what were made for so to breathe better i started oncedaily anoro. Go your own way copd tries to say go this way i say ill go my own way with anoro. Go your own way oncedaily anoro contains two medicines called bronchodilators that Work Together to significantly improve lung function all day and all night. Do not use anoro if you have asthma. Anoro wont replace rescue inhalers for sudden symptoms and should not be used more than once a day. Tell your doctor if you a heart condition, high blood pressure, glaucoma, prostate, bladder or urinary problems. These may worsen with anoro. Call your doctor if you have worsened breathing, chest pain, mouth or tongue swelling, problems urinating, vision changes, or eye pain while taking anoro. The most common side effects are sore throat, diarrhea and pain in the arms and legs. Ask your doctor about oncedaily anoro to start treating your copd. Go your own way save at anoro. Com youve got to be realistic and youve got to understand that you dont make the timeline. The virus makes the timeline. Donald trumps timeline for reopening the economy by easter, which he has now walked back, was not viable, not medically, not legally, but trumps call for churches to be packed on Easter Sunday is still concerning because it echoes the problematic response to coronavirus by some of his most loyal supporters, white, christian evangelicals. Trumps spiritual adviser paula white took the opportunity to ask for donations to her florida church, without a hint of irony, that donations would not go to victims of covid19. One arizona pastor said his congregation is, quote, ready to lick the floor of the church to prove theres no actual virus at all. Then theres televangelist jim baker who took it to a whole new level, selling a 125 concoction called the silver solution that he strongly suggested would be effective against coronavirus. Baker has since been sued by the state of missouri and warned to stop selling his fake cure by the fda. And it no longer appears to be on his website. And, of course, the trump cabinets bible study teacher, brought back an oldie but a goody. The covid19 is really just an expression of gods wrath caused by americas increasing acceptance of gays and lesbians. Joining me now is frank schaeffer, religious reform activist and author of why i am an atheist who believes in god. Frank, let me play for you we dont play a ton of trump on this show but let me play you his comments about bringing the country back to work by easter. Here he is. I would love to have it open by easter. Okay, i would love oh, wow, okay. I would love to have it open by easter. I will tell you that right now. I would love to have that. Its such an important day for other reasons but ill make it an important day for this, too. I think Easter Sunday and youll have packed churches all over our country. I think it would be a beautiful time. Who suggested i just thought it was a beautiful time, it would be a beautiful timeline. Its a great day. Your response, frank . Well, first of all, joy, good health to you and the whole msnbc family. This is a time when you feel love for people and we say hello on the streets, so hello to you and god bless you, joy. Thank you. Thank you. And you as well. Thank you. Were at a time now when the naked lickspiddle of donald trump and his followers is more horrifying than ever. Franklin graham, his big supporter asked him to call a national day of prayer. We know trump would never do this by himself. We have all the pieces that you played of people trying to cash in on this, to push their antigay homophobia. We also see the magical thinking for evangelicals that allows them, for instance, to deny climate change, to deny Scientific Evidence on gay people being born that way, to deny so many things that we know from any common sense point of view, let alone a scientific point of view are true. They have been nurtured from birth to accept alternative fact. When we come to this time of covid19 overtaking our country, a literal life and death issue, we see two things very clearly, joy. One is the utter moral bankruptcy of this leader who pits himself against governors trying to save their people, and the second is the utter moral bankruptcy of evangelical, the white evangelical voter having rented out jeetsz to this moronic monster who in this time of crisis, far from being our Winston Churchill leading us to freedom against the act viss in germany and others basically tells those in my day, those in their 70s, to do what the je. Ws were told to do, put on a yellow star, were not going to make respirators, especially for governors we dont like, go off and die so the Stock Exchange numbers go up and i look good. We have a republican governor, we have people who are in positions of power and donald trump trying to push a business as usual agenda. Instead of evangelicals standing up and saying, wait a minute, we bought into your candidacy because youre supposed to be the, quote unquote, prolife president , we now have a prodeath president who would rather have his economic numbers go up chasing a 2020 election than save lives. And the evangelicals are going along with it and giving him cover. This whole easter nonsense was simply more currying favor with that base. A footnote but very telling. Before one thing, this is one mans opinion, there is a New York Times piece that says the religious rights hostility to how science is crippling our coronavirus response, it reads today, the hard core of climate deniers is those identified as religiously conservative republicans. This denial of thinking among religious ultraconservative haunts america in the coronavirus crisis. Thats by katherine stewart. The question i have, frank, is whether these beliefs, this almost religious belief in trump himself as the savior, does it survive actual deaths in your church, in your own family, this virus will not stop at the door of these evangelical churches. It will come inside. When people they know, when their own families, when people start getting sick. Can this unshakeable belief in trump survive that . Will they start to believe the science when its literally right in front of them . You know, im reminded, joy, the passage from the bible where christ says, tho one come back from the dead, they would not believe. Let me tell you a parallel in answer to your question that i hope im wrong on. Think of all the churches that were shot up by guntoting pools recently, even one in texas, where gun laws are so permissive that youre surprised people dont give you a gun at birth. Say, wait a minute, theyre shooting up the churches, maybe we wont support the nra . No, they are not. They are so in love with the gospel of hatred, gun ownership, protect yourself from your neighbor, keep the foreigners out, lock babies in cages. They have denied the Lord Jesus Christ to the point where there is no redemption for the hardest of the hard core. Does that mean individuals wont peel away . Yes. I appeal to my Christian Brothers and sisters, rethink your support for a man that would dangle respirators over a governor who disagrees with him and turn back to the teachings of jesus away from this man. Yeah. The teachings are very clear, that is the poor, the least of these, the foreigner that we should be protecting as an old method, thats what i was brought up to believe. Frank, thank you so much. I appreciate your advocacy. God bless you. Be safe. Coming up, one of americas most racist president s mishandling of a pandemic, and its not who you think. Stay with us. Thats next. Leaves the table until your finished. Fine, well sleep here. 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Depend® fitflex underwear offers your best comfort and protection guaranteed. Because, perfect or not, lifes better when youre in it. Be there with depend®. Thats why lincoln offers complimentary pickup and delivery servicing. Well pick up your vehicle and leave you with a lincoln loaner. Thats the power of sanctuary. Woodrow wilson is often remembered by historians as a top ten american president. That comes primarily for his leadership during world war i. He was even awarded the Nobel Peace Prize for creating the league of nations after what was supposed to be the war to end all wars. A leelg that became the precursor to the united nations. But wilsons legacy also includes his deep racism and coddling of the exploding Klu Klux Klan and his mismantel handling of the spanish flu which killed 675,000 americans between 50 and 100 Million People around the world. And now Donald Trumps handling of the coronavirus outbreak has drawn comparisons to the 28th president because like wilson, trump has down played the grave situation the country is in. Joining me now is jon meacham, nbc political analyst and also the author of the book hope and glory, the reflections on the last words of jesus from the cross. That seems like something im going to add to my reading list immediately after this show. I have to add that in. Jon, i have long been in the, please remove wilson from the top ten among historical rankings category. Ive pretty much been alone if that for a very long time. Black lives matter started to really challenge Woodrow Wilsons primacy among historians for the reason i mentioned earlier, but this coronavirus outbreak has really brought back to mind the absolute horror of his response to that outbreak. Do you think that the rethinking on his handling ultimately detracts from his standing among people in your profession . Oh, absolutely. And my friend, michael wrote an oped about this a couple months ago, long before the virus that laid this out. History, as Arthur Schlessinger liked to quote a dutch historian, history is an argument without end. Thats a wonderful, elegant way of putting it. We always have to reevaluate these figures who are sources of both instruction and inspiration. And instruction, as you know, can be a negative. You can learn what not to do. Wilson is pretty much 100 model of what not to do. He resegregated the federal government, as you say, the klan was refounded in 1915, rose from 2 to 6 million americans, 5 g governors. The 347 had klan delegates, went to 103 ballots because they wouldnt vote for al smith, the Irish Catholic governor of new york. The movie birth of the nation was screened at the white house. Wilson was taken in on that. He had an old classmate who was a pr guy. Still, wilson very much represented this white supremacist view of reconstruction, his speech at gettysburg, which david blythe, the great historian has talked about, attempted to make the war not about slavery but about mutual regional courage. And so, in all of these instances, wilson failed interestingly to do something that he himself laid out. He was a political scientist. He had described the presidency as the president as having the capacity to be as big a man as he can. Thats an interesting phrase. And yet we can also see, and were seeing it now, that a president can also be as small. Yeah. Well, and we often leave out the fact that his daughters recording of the star spangled banner is why that song became the National Anthem ultimately. I think it took another 20 years for congress to go along with it. But he did that, too, because he liked the way his daughter recorded that song. I think a lot of people forget the star spangled banner was not born with the United States. It came from him. But on the spanish flu, the misnomered spanish flu, the thing wilson did that is reminiscent of what trump is doing is he hid the gravity of it. Allowed public gatherings to continue, did not take action. But he did it primarily because his administration did not want to frighten people during world war i and dampen enthusiasm and dampen the war effort. That is not a truly mitigating factor when 675,000 people died, but at least it makes sense. It is very difficult to make sense of Donald Trumps diminishment of the seriousness of this pandemic, because theres nothing in it for him to do that, right . Ultimately the pandemic will happen whether you say its happening or not. It is very difficult to understand why any president would diminish such a lifethreatening, you know, instance of Global Pandemic. Does it make any sense when you look at it, sort of back it up from Historical Perspective . With all respect and affection, youre making a pretty fundamental mistake there, if i may. Youre supposing that the incumbent president follows reality. I mean, theres a distortion field here. Thats a perfectly, logical, sensible question, but its the kind of question that doesnt really apply here because for five years now, since 2015, the incumbent president has repeatedly shown that his interests are paramount to the National Interest. And he interprets the National Interest through what is good for him. Not even in the historical sense. Hes not thinking about what were going to think about when we see his portrait in the white house. Hes not thinking about what historians will say. Hes thinking about what cable news folks are saying minute to minute. And i think thats a mistake. I think history lasts a lot longer than a news cycle, but he has chosen to do that. And so he sees pandemic as, and i think this is a fair way of putting it, he sees the pandemic as a threat to the economy he believes he built, although thats a good question, too, and the reelection he seeks. For once, interestingly, the virus is not susceptible to bullying. And so where we are is and i think this is hugely important and thats why i love that youre talking about wilson. Character is destiny. People can criticize us for spending too much time on the president , the presidency, you know, the government matters, the people matters, absolutely true. But here we have in a stark life and death way, an exteistential way, a case study why the character of the person at the top of the government of the United States matters enormously. It matters to you and me. Well have a chance in november to make a decision about that. Absolutely. And, you know, the great president s overcome what is seen as their fundamental nature. You think of lbj, the way he grew up and his attitude or harry truman who were able to overcome that. The presidency can bring out something in you if its already there. It has to be there. This has been five years. Great to talk to you, jon meacham. I look forward to reading your book. Be safe. Thank you. Coming up next, my final thoughts about choosing our leaders wisely to the very point that jon meacham eloquently made. Keep it right there. How do your teeth get a dentistclean feeling . Start with a round brush head. Add power. And youve got oralb oralbs round brush head surrounds each tooth to remove more plaque. For a superior clean, round cleans better. Oralb. Oh, oh, announcer ® onceweekly ozempic® is helping many people with type 2 diabetes like james lower their blood sugar. A majority of adults who took ozempic® reached an a1c under 7 and maintained it. Heres your a1c. Oh my a1c is under 7 announcer and you may lose weight. 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According to the article two of the constitution, president s sign laws passed by congress, they nominate judges that the senate has to approve, they apoi appoint the heads of the executive branch and represent us around the world. One thing the does constitution does not allow president s to do is to quarantine states. What president s do day to day is they are supposed to manage the federal government for us. Theyre like a ceo who we, the nations board of directors, hire through an election to make our government function for us. That means that in an emergency, at a time of calamity, a president is the ultimate crisis manager. We pay him quite a bit of money and hopefully one day her to manage emergencies for us, to plan for emergencies and to set up our government to be able to handle crises when they occur. Whether thats a wartime emergency or a deadly hurricane or a pandemic. Thats it. Thats the job. By that job description, at the moment, america functionally has no president. Donald trump failed to plan for the emergency currently befalling us. He fired the agencies and the staffers left to him by president obama to deal with potential pandemics. He ignored the literal book that was handed to him that would have helped him plan ahead. Now the coronavirus pandemic is overwhelming him. Its overwhelming our states. Its overwhelming our hospitals and frankly our psyches. David corn was not wrong in writing in mother jones that trump wasnt built emotionally or intellectually to handle the job that the electoral college, overruling the majority of americans, gave him in 2016. He lacks the willingness or maybe the ability to plan. He lacks the competence to respond to an emergency. He surrounds himself with incompetent people and sick fants because he cant stand to hear news thats bad to him. He undermines the few smart people around him and forces them to humiliate themselves, genuflecting to them, rather than telling him and us the plain truth. He attacks the media and politicians who refuse to kiss up to him and praise him. He apparently lacks the empathy to care about the consequences or to comfort the country in its time of need and sorrow. These were not unknowable things about donald trump when he was applying for the job of being our president. Nearly every single trump biographer told us who he was. We in the media interviewed these people. People like tony swartz and tim obrien and people who had worked for donald trump. They told us. And yet here we are. Stuck with a man who has the title of president but who is thoroughly inadequate to the job, to the point where listening to him god forbid taking his advise puts you in more danger, not less. Donald trump is unfit as Hillary Clinton told you he would be. As this is an election year, tell your friends and family to think carefully about who they vote for in november, not just for president but also for governor, for mayor, for city and state legislatures. We got a glimpse of how important those positions are this week. When a city commissioner in florida blasted the mayor and manager for their terrible, terrible response to the covid19 outbreak. You are calling me disrespectful because ive interrupted people. But this gentleman has turned off peoples lights in the middle of a Global Health pandemic. Thats what that gentleman did. You think im disrespectful for interrupting. Elect people like that. Its important who you choose as your representatives in the house and in the senate. Because that choice will tell you how the next crisis will be managed. These jobs are not about having a beer with you, which unless you are a lobbyist, is probably never going to happen. Its not about religious leadership. Thats what your pastor or rabbi is for. Its a management job. Who you hire could be the difference between a bailout for the super rich or for your local restaurant or for you. Between risking prison riots and outbreaks at the border and orderly peace. Real talk, it could mean the difference between life and death. So please, please choose wisely. Be safe. Stay home. Wash your hands. To quote Hillary Clinton, never take advice from a man who stared into an eclipse. Its the easiest because its the cheesiest. Kraft. For the win win. So chantix can help you quit slow turkey. Along with support, chantix is proven to help you quit. With chantix you can keep smoking at first and ease into quitting so when the day arrives, youll be more ready to kiss cigarettes goodbye. When you try to quit smoking, with or without chantix, you may have nicotine withdrawal symptoms. Stop chantix and get help right away if you have changes in behavior or thinking, aggression, hostility, depressed mood, suicidal thoughts or actions, seizures, new or worse heart or blood vessel problems, sleepwalking, or lifethreatening allergic and skin reactions. Decrease alcohol use. 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Were asking every single governor and every single mayor to prepare like new york is preparing now. Were inventorying all of our Health Care Clinics and various settings to find any breathing device that can be uses as a ventilator. Our numbers are climbing. The virus is going to dictate the time frame. Were going to follow the advice of the scientists and doctors. A new travel advisory after the president s quarantine plan was quashed. We begin with breaking news on the coronavirus pandemic right now. There are more than 123,000 cases of coronavirus here in the u. S. We have the National Death toll having climbed to 2,059. A desperate plea from the administration as the white house contemplates the next steps in the fight against coronavirus. When this virus comes to your metro area, please