Though. Trump even has his own version of the if i did it of if i did it. The memo that he keeps calling a transcript which proves he did it and his own chief of staff and his Million Dollar donor turned Eu Ambassador gordon sonde larpd both saying he did it, so he will be impeached and he will carry that shame of being indicted by the house for defying. Bill clinton was impeached by partisan republicans after hed already been reelected and probably because of it. Richard nixon had the selfrespect to resign before his full impeachment. And later in this show well talk about the man whose impeachment and presidency comes close to Donald Trumps. Americas now second worst president ,Andrew Johnson. He is a member of the House Intelligence Committee and vice chairman of the Foreign Affairs committee. Congress m congressman, good morning. Good morning. We know that this vote is coming next week. Theres not a lot of suspense about the way it will go, but you talk presumably every so often with members on the other side of the aisle. Have you identified or can you tell us, are there any republicans who can look at this evidence against donald trump including his own people saying he did it in a socalled fake transcript, a memo that shows he did it, are any republicans that you know of planning to vote yes on the idea of these two articles of impeachment . To be honest, none that ive spoken with have said theyre going to vote for it. And its interesting. Early on in september when the phone call broke, all this news broke, there were a lot manufacture republicans who were openly admitting that it was problematic, that there was a problem, that it was inappropriate and its interesting how slowly itsmorphed into almost a complete defense and a clinging to donald trump and this denial of reality of basically saying that there was nothing inappropriate, he did nothing wrong, that this is a witch hunt and so forth. So to see that has been both unbelievable and saddening and disheartening all at once. So youre saying that youre now hearing them try to defend him on the substance because at first, what republicans were doing when they werent just running away from cameras was saying yeah, it might be bad but its not impeachable so youre saying now when you talk with republicans theyre defending the substance of this strong arm of ukraine . Yeah, it may just be the ones that i talked to also, but yeah, theyre trying to theyre trying to behave as though he did nothing wrong but youre right. There are some that have said yeah, well, maybe its bad or he shouldnt have done that but it doesnt rise to the level of impeachment. Its a combination of those two things, but the most aggress i have voices within the republican conference have been like doug collins, people and jim jordan, folks that come across as true believers, the people that go out and completely defend the president no matter what he does and thats what youre seeing more and more. And so when that happens i think this is just in terms of the internal dynamics of the congress, when you have a group of people like that who go out and so adamantly defend the president , what ive noticed is that the other republicans then start to cower and they feel as though theyve got to toe that line. It draws everybody like a magnet to those arguments and its what im describing that ive seen over the last few months. Weve now heard Mitch Mcconnell say that the jury is rigged. Hes going to work with the defendant to ensure husbais acquittal in the senate. Im going to play your colleague in the house and this is what he says he thinks the democrats should do. Take a listen. I think nancy pelosi and House Democrats may want to reconsider whether or not they refer the articles next week. What happens in the articles of impeachment is the last paragraph will say and the article is here by referred to the senate for trial. They could strike that paragraph, hold it and either wait for mcconnell and schumer to reach tom some agreement, some assurances that schumer feels that we can go into this knowing that we may have a fair trial or just hold it until the president commits another impeachable act. What do you think about that idea of not giving Mitch Mcconnell the opportunity to rig the jury and just impeaching donald trump in the house and not sending it at least for now to the senate. Yeah, its an interesting one and i hadnt thought about it but i do think that leader schumer and Speaker Pelosi and adam schiff and others will have to think about the strategy because you have Mitch Mcconnell whos basically saying that hes in cahoots with donald trump and how could anybody expect that this is going to be a fair trial when the guy thats in charge of the jury is rigging it for the defense . So the speaker and leader schumer will have to sit back and think about what the best approach is. I still expect that once the house votes on it its going to be sent over to the senate, but theres no doubt that that interview a few days ago by Mitch Mcconnell on fox news really sent shock waves not just through congress but i think any american listening to that realizing that this is supposed to be an impartial process and hearing that guy basically say that its going to be rigged was, you know, kind of shocking. Congressman, youre from texas. Youre also on the Intelligence Committee which has been really the sort of leading committee in terms of figuring out all that donald trump did and that brought him to impeachment. How do you explain to the average texan who doesnt Pay Attention to this every day, isnt obsessively watching a. M. Joy and msnbc, how do you explain to them, what is it that donald trump did so wrong . What is it that he did that makes him deserved to be removed from office. He abused his power by trying to trade Government Resources for a political favor, to knock out a political rival in joe biden. The guy that he thought would emerge as nominee for 2020 and we cant set a precedent where Congress Says its okay for a president to do that because if we do that then a few things will happen. Number one it opens the door for donald trump to do it again or a few dh future president to do it again. To ask a country to interfere in our elerkss and knock out a political rifle by digging up dirt, but the other thing is it puts a lot of americans in danger and this is what i try to convey to people that arent in politics. It means that if youre a business person whos doing work or your kids are doing work in ukraine or in sweden or anywhere else, that a president or a governor or somebody else can pick up the phone and ask that person the leader of that country to go investigate you or dig up dirt on you and that congress would be saying by letting donald trump off the hook that thats okay. That you know, the next democratic president , in fetheo could call saudi arabia and say if you dont investigate were not going to give you the aid we said were going to do. Is it okay for a president to do that . Thats what well be doing if we do nothing with donald trump. The fact that donald trump has children that does business with fwooreign countries. Does he want that applied to his soninlaw or his daughters in relationships. Its an excellent point. Thats right. In ten years, really i mean, if this goes think, if nothing happens in ten years somebody could ask to investigate Jared Kushner in israel or somewhere else, and we would be saying thats perfectly fine. Thank you very much. Really appreciate you being here this morning. Thank you. Lets now bring in laurence tribe, professor of constitutional law at harvard and author of to end a presidency. Before i move on to the senate i want to get you to comment on that as well. Down the road, donald trump may be setting a precedent if hes acquitted that a future president could say, saudi arabia, id leek you to give me some dirt on what you and Jared Kushner have been up to or china, youve bullpeen doing business with eivanka. That pressosent is horrifying that a president could do that with a foreign country. I think congressman castro is exactly right. The kind of abuse that this president has engaged in is the sort of abuse that we dont want any american president to be able to engage in against any citizen, not only his main political rifle. Getting Foreign Governments to do your dirty work and to go after american citizens whom you dont like or who are on your enemys list or whose Business Activities disturb you or who are your critics is what dictators do. Its what desperates do and our liberty, our right to vote is not secure as long as a president of the United States especially one who says he cant be indicted, he cant be investigated, and hes going to stone wall any attempt to impeach him can get that kind of power focused against any citizen, were all helpless against that. Thats why this matters to us. Its not just theoretical question. And as jeff see tuben said its only something a president could do to a fellow citizen which is why its important. Mitch mcconnell said hes rigging the jury, that the outcome is already determined. He will determine that donald trump will be acquitted so you almost wonder whether or not former congressman david jolly is correct. He said earlier that maybe the house just shouldnt send the articles over to him or at least delay sending it. Weve talked about that before with you. What do you make about that idea of deleting that last line in the articles of impeachment that says they shall be sent to the senate and at least holding it for now . Well, in an op ed in the Washington Post early this june i proposed that as a thought experiment. I said if it should turn out that Mitch Mcconnell in his usual way comes right out and basically says the fix is in so that the socalled trial will be just a whitewash that will never remove the stain from the president but will also not have any chance of removing the president and disqualifying him from future office, that in that event the house should consider simply concluding after a fair proceeding of its own and this one was fair, despite the complaints after concluding that the president is guilty of high crimes and misdemeanors, just sit on it and not send it over to the senate. That was my proposal. But i dont think its awfully realistic. The fact is that both articles of impeachment have now been voted by the judiciary committee. There is no real chance that between now and next wednesday that last sentence will be be taken out. And even if it were i wouldnt put it past Mitch Mcconnell to say under the constitution he can take these articles up once the articles of impeachment are then voted by the house and there would be a plausible argument to that effect. So its an interesting idea. Actually i thought it pretty interesting when i proposed it back in june, but i dont think we should waste a lot of time speculating about it. It aint going to happen. All right. Well, then lets look at some things that maybe could happen. One of them would be, there was a piece in the Washington Post that talked about some things that democrats could do in the senate to try to force mcconnell to hold a real trial. Democrats could demand the mountains of documents the administration refused to turn over to the house impeachment inquiry be admitted as evidence in the trial. Democrats could insist on the rights to call witnesses such as Mick Mulvaney, john bolton and they could use the 1999 impeachment of bill clinton as a model. Could they force that to happen with just floor votes . I think with floor votes they would have a total of 51 assuming that mention didnt vote the democratic caucus. They would need five votes but 51 vote cans basically do anything in the senate in this process. Its not completely up to mcconnell as though he acts as though he is the ruler in chief of the senate. So it is possible to put pressure on him to have a real trial and i think there would be a lot of pub llic support for that. If you do that we will call hunter biden, we will out the whistleblower. I think those are empty threats. I dont think the nation would stand for that kind of circus so i do think the democrats should press hard to make this a real trial and remember if it isnt then i think what you said earlier making this president the o. J. Simpson of president s would be his fate. That is, he would have not only a red asterisk next to his name but he would become the first president who was impeached in his first term who fundamentally was not really acquitted but just given a pass in the senate, and he would then go down in history in the way that his misconduct deserves. I think that would have effect for the future. It would make it less likely that future president s would be as outrageously lawless as this one has been. And trump should remember that eventually a court did get o. J. On another thing and there are other courts out there that are looking at things donald trump does. Before i let you go, val demiings, a member of congress from florida has called on Mitch Mcconnell to recuse himself because of what he said on fox. I think everyone doubts thats going to happen, but you had said that moscow mitch is potentially afraid of crossing Vladimir Putin whos oligarchs like the owner of the aluminum plants, do you believe that perhaps one of the reasons Mitch Mcconnell is so loyal to donald trump is that he worries about whatever it is that the russians got on the rnc and not just the dnc or sit just money . No, absolutely. I think money is part of it. I think he is very much beholdened to Vladimir Putin. I think many republicans are now and the really scary thing of how theyre moving in lock step behind trump is that they are all beholdened to moscow. And trump has again invited russia to help and russias cyber attack units have been doing a lot of mischief around the world. I think that we really need to worry about our national security. Thats why the first article of impeachment talks about the president s abuse of power threatening not only the integrity of our elerkss but our national security. I think we are in a scary place. Yeah. And this president really needs to be brought under control. Indeed. Im not a constitutional scholar as you are, sir, but i do know the one thing the framers feared the most was foreign influence on our leaders. Laurence tribe, thank you, as always, for being here. Thank you, joy. Coming up, House Republicans once again prove loud does not equal right. That is next. Ual right. That is next im your mother in law. And i like to question your every move. Like this left turn. Its the next one. You always drive this slow . How did you make someone i love . That must be why youre always so late. I do not speed. And thats saving me cash with drivewise. My son, he did say that you were the safe option. And thats the nicest thing you ever said to me. So get allstate. Stop bossing. Where good drivers save 40 for avoiding mayhem, like me. This is my sons favorite color, you should try it. [mayhem] you always drive like an old lady . [tina] youre an old lady. Save hundreds of thousands of lives. But after the emergency, time and again, Insurance Companies deny coverage, second guessing doctors, nurses and first responders. Now big insurance is lobbying congress. Asking for restrictions on air medical services. Eliminating patients access to lifesaving care and destroying jobs all in exchange for bigger profits for Insurance Companies. Tell congress, put patients first, not big insurance. This was a kangaroo court, outrageous to put the country through this. It is anchor man, not anchor lady and that is a scientific fact. You have made joe mccarthy look like a piker with what youve done with the electronic surveillance involved. Its terrible. She has beautiful eyes and her hair smells like cinnamon. I dont know what were yelling about. Note to republicans. Screaming is not a defense. Its also really unpleasant and unwatchable unless its on anchor man. As our next guest writes in the face of such overwhelming evidence that their boss donald trump is guilty, House Republicans impeachment strategy seems to be distract, deceived. I love talking with you, curt, because you know what the other side would do. Yes. Let me show you doing the thing. This is im sorry. I think it might be element six. This is them yelling during the impeachment hearings. Take a listen. They dont like the president , they dont like the president s supporters and they dislike us so much theyre willing to weize the government. Now its the impeachment power of Congress Going after 63 Million People and the guy we put in the wous. My question is wheres your crimes . Theres no allegation of bribery, theres no allegation of extortion. Why arent they in this impeachment document . Because they dont exist. What is the point of the anchorman not anchor lady strategy . I think that republicans clearly understand that the facts, the truth is not on their side and so the only thing they can do is repeat the same things over and over again and each time they repeat them they have to do it louder and more emphatically because for them they only care about those ten seconds sound bites theyre going to play on fox news to make it look like they werent outrageous about something. Are they worried they wont hear them . Why are they screaming . I mean, they scream. Because in their paradigm screaming equals strength and strength equals righteousness and righteousness equals correctness i guess. And maybe donald trump cant hear them. This is the other thing theyve tried to do which was turn the impeachment of donald trump into a show trial of someone no one knows other than people on fox which is hunter biden