Possible case so that the president is held accountable one way or another in the court of Public Opinion or in the law or congress of the United States. You dont bring an impeachment unless you have all of the facts. Okay. So what actual facts have we got about trump trampling the constitution and even committing crimes like obstruction of justice . Anything . Do we have anything . Oh, yeah. Right. We have this. The Mueller Report. The Mueller Report. Right here. Right here. There it is. This is the report that everyone was waiting for that was supposed to, you know, deliver the coup de gras to the Trump Presidency and restore democracy. We have this. And speaking of Robert Mueller, he came out this week and told yall in no Uncertain Terms that he has done all the work hes going to do. He is going home. And also read the damn report and figure it out. If we had had confidence that the president clearly did not commit a crime, we would have said so. It would have been unfair to potentially accuse somebody of a crime when there can be no Court Resolution of the actual charge. Now, i hope and expect this to be the only time that i will speak to you in this manner. So over to you, congress. Yes . Or maybe no. Now here comes the tough love portion of the a. M. Joy show. Robert mueller will go down in history is not going to save you from donald trump. Mueller is gone. Even if he ultimately testifies before congress, there is no cavalry thats waiting to descend from beyond the wall to take down the night king. There are no elves to come take down the orcs and doom. And as for congress, the democratic leadership has made it clear that really no matter how far donald trump pushes and stretches the limits of the constitution, no matter how many times he tells his administration to basically flush their subpoenas down the nearest white house lou or even with republicans providing bipartisan cover, congress is not going to take down donald trump. At least not using the remedy the constitution anticipated for an out of control president. Impeachment. Speaker nancy pelosi has suggested prayer to deal with donald trump. She suggested for Melania Trump and the family to stage an intervention. And she and other members of house litsch have made it clear that they fundamentally believe it should be your job, the voters in 2020 to sanction this president by denying him a second term. The democratic leadership openly viewed impeachment as a waste of time unless theres guaranteed removal by the senate. Something that has never happened in american history. Thats where we are. Democrats despite the clamor from their base to at least begin an impeachment inquiry are plowing ahead with their strategy which is to issue strongly worded letters which once defied will be followed by subpoenas which once rejected will result in eventual court cases and once appealed will eventually result in something that changes Public Opinion about donald trump. Then if that Public Opinion becomes a ground swell for impeachment, then it will happen maybe. So no one is coming to save you. But the reality is that donald trump also has a say in all of this. And if he continues crashing through the constitution like a bull in a china shop, defying congress, and now even defying the courts, well, what are democrats going to do . Joining me now is House Majority whip James Clyburn. Thank you so much for joining me this morning. Thank you very much for having me. Thank you. So im looking here at a letter from congressman adam schiff who is of course the chairman of the House Intelligence Committee writing to dan coates about this order from william barr to comply with this investigation of the investigators. So Donald Trumps attorney general, Donald Trumps white house, theyre plowing forward with investigating members of the fbi. Theyve now defied a court order to turn over the correspondences. Theyre defying both you guys and the courts. Impeachment is not the answer to that and i think its clear you guys dont think impeachment is the answer. What is the answer . Well, impeachment may be the answer. I dont think that those of us in leadership are saying that impeachment is not the answer. I think from the report, from all that ive seen and heard for the last several years, i do believe that impeachment may be the answer. Those are the grounds. Now, the question then becomes what is the proper time for us to start this process. And i think thats all Speaker Pelosi is saying at this point. We must take care that we do not get out in front of this process. Lets continue to do what were doing. Lets continue to do the investigations. Lets have the hearings. Lets build a public support. Lets do what is necessary to bring the public along. And then we may have reached the time to launch the impeachment inquiries. I dont think were there yet. Well, clearly the public agrees with you at least according to the opinion polls. Off plurality of voters that this poll i will say i think is impeachment and removal. Which you dont need to combine those really. And 43 favor no action. So its kind of close. But do you are you concerned, sir, that just having lots and lots of hearings that drone on and on and on, they kind of become almost that theres not a coherent narrative that the public can follow that essentially the public will tune out all these many different hearings, tune it all out. And then essentially donald trump will win by default and just get away with it all. Well, that is a fear that i have. But i also have a bit of experience over the years. I do real that we had an impeachment against president clinton. It was a very partisan process. Political though it may be. And look what happened. Came to Richard Nixon years ago. We never had to get to impeachment. Because he stone walled, he fired people, he did things on the same order that trump is doing. But it finally caught up with him. When Alexander Butterfield reviewed or revealed that those tapes were there and the Court Ordered him to produce those tapes, we reached the time for impeachment. And thats in a bipartisan way that Congress Went to him and says, either leave or be impeached. And he left. We could very well through these hearings come up with that smoking gun that will do for us today what those tapes did with Richard Nixon before. So lets go through the process and hope that we can get there. Respectfully, sir, lets take each of those two cases. Because i think the analogies between donald trump and Richard Nixon are close in a lot of ways. But in that instance, you had a Republican Party that was not nearly as sort of vehemently reflexively partisan as the Republican Party of now. There arent a lot of republicans now that would behave the way that republicans did then. Protecting trump is what theyre doing. And the second thing is, with clinton, what actually happened is that, you know, republicans lost a few seats in the house. But they held the house. They held the senate. They then made bill clinton useless to al gore. They rendered him inert. They then won the white house as well. Republicans did not pay a price for impeaching bill clinton. And bill clinton was popular. Donald trump is not popular. So is this analogy missing the point . Because bill clinton and donald trump are very different. Their popularity is different going in. The reason that they would be impeached is very different. And the outcome for republicans was actually pretty darn good about impeaching bill clinton. Good for them. Well, they did not pay they did not pay as big a price. Youre right. As i would have loved to see them pay. But we did make some historical gains. But you didnt get the house back. You got neither the house nor the senate back. Democrats did not get back a body and bill clinton was no longer running for president. He was not able to campaign for al gore. What price did republicans pay . Well, i think they paid a price in the president ial elections. I do believe but they won. Im sorry . But they won. I mean, they beat al gore. Yes, they did. Because the courts awarded it to them. We all remember what happened down in florida. We see what happened in the last election. Hillary clinton won the popular vote. But i do believe that trump was correct when he said things were rigged through the electoral college. Things got rigged. And we were subjected to the russian influence. We were subjected to all kinds of suppressions. The kinds of things that we ought to be prepared for today. The same thing is going to happen for today if we dont get prepared. Thats what i was going to make a point. Because, right. William barr has essentially opened the door for it to be perfectly legal for donald trump to seek help again. So you have to presume donald trump is going to do the same things again. So hes going to go in with the advantages of foreign interference and an attorney general thats going to help him, all the things he had in 2016. But he also is going to happen not been sanctioned for the things we know he did. You know, for the ten instances of obstruction of justice that have already happened. And for defying you guys. Hes saying i dont care if you subpoena me. If he goes in already feeling invincible, im not sure how not impeaching him alters his behavior. Hes getting away with everything hes doing. Hes gotten away thus far. That doesnt mean he will be getting away in the fall of the year or the first part of next year. I do believe that we are on track to getting to where we need to be to bring the public along with us and to even change some of the minds in the senate. I dont know that we have to get to 2 3 of the senate in order for the ground swell to be there that would cause Mitch Mcconnell and others to sit down with this president and tell him the jig is up. Do you really think Mitch Mcconnell would ever do that . Do you really think mitch mckonld would do that . Impeachment has never resulted in removal. Impeachment is a separate sanction. Its the highest sanction that you all in the house can put on a president. It is literally the ultimate rebuke. Thats all its ever been. Its separate from removal spp there any chance at all any single republican is going to vote to convict . Cant it be its own sanction . I dont know that you have to get to the point of voting to convict. We got to that point with Richard Nixon. And we never had to go to impeachment or a trial. I think Mitch Mcconnell, if the folks in kentucky were to rise up and says hey, guy. You have got to fulfill your responsibilities. I dont think he would lay himself on the alter of donald trump. I know Mitch Mcconnell a little better than that. Im not a big fan of mitch. But i know that mitch would never lay himself on the altar of donald trump. Okay. Well, we shall see. We will continue to watch and we really appreciate your time. Congressman, James Clyburn, thank you very much. Really appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you, sir. Coming up, were going to expand this conversation with our allstar panel. Thats next. With our allstar panel thats next. We bought a house in a neighborhood with a lot of other young couples. Then we noticed something. Strange. Oh, could you, uh, make me a burger . Poof youre a burger. 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Joining me now is david jolly former republican congressman whos no longer affiliated, and jean pierre. Im going to start with you, elliot, at the table. What was that . I want you to respond to it. I hate the phrase take them at their word. But im going to use it anyway. I take the leadership at their word they do not want to do impeachment. I think thats genuine. I dont think theyre making that up. And their argument for it seems to be based on the experiences that they personally had during the bill clinton impeachment and they they recall from nixon. That is what the congressman argued. He believes if they keep getting more information somehow republicans will act as they did during the nixon and not the way during the clinton impeachment. Right. There are a couple of things that clyburn said that deserve immediate pushback. One is this democratic fascination with a smoking gun. The Mueller Report is the smoking gun. We have the smoking gun. It is on fire. All right . So this search for the smoking gun is ridiculous. We have it. Lets go. Number two, and this is the key thing and you saw it when he brought up nixon. He said, well, when the Court Ordered nixon to give up the tapes, thats when nixon realized the jig is up. Donald trump will not give up the tapes. Even if they found this mythical gun that they think is still hiding there. If trump has it, he wont give it up. Hes already proven that. He is right now in violation of a court order ordering him to release tapes so i dont understand why if theyre not going to impeach any president you know, if theyre not going to impeach him now, when are they going to do it . February . During the Democratic National convention . If not now, then when . And if not him, then who . Right. All of the other arguments. Oh, we have to bring the American People along. He hasnt tried to bring of course the polls arent on our side. Theyve spent six weeks since the release of the Mueller Report the democratic leadership has spent six weeks since the release of the Mueller Report trying to tell me why we cant impeach him opposed to trying to tell the American People why we must. Of course the polls arent on our side. You know, david jolly, let me because you were in the republican you were a republican. Theres a sense i have that republicans can sense democratic fear. Listen. Im a lifelong democrat. Im not trying to diss democrats. But republicans understand that democrats operate from a position of being very nervous about rupturing the public mood. And that they really believe the process has to be stable and the American People need to be brought along. And they are a bit afraid of rocking the boat. And republicans take advantage of that because when they flagrantly defy democrats and they flagrantly sort of smack them around, they know theyre not going to get hit back. So they just keep hitting them. So are what were seeing donald trump is a guy who responds to that kind of strength. He loves dix at a tictators. Is the reason democrats are seeming to lose this battle because they wont show force back to somebody whos using force and maximum resistance against them . Oh, slure. Because House Democrats and republicans who have taken two weeks since the Mueller Report came out and are having short weeks. Nancy pelosi does not want to impeach. Thats absolutely clear. James clyburn whether he thinks so or not is willing to go along with nancy pelosi out of loyalty. What i think the disconduct a lot of people are feeling not just democrats but those who performed as democrats in 2018 asking for greater oversight. Even if you were to buy into the post pelosi strategy that James Clyburn articulated, that we need to draw this out. Were not seeing the urgency in that, joy. If nancy pelosi made the case to the country, we needs months of hearings. Because of that were calling the congress back to washington and were going to do this five days a week on national tv so the American People can see it. Now youre more in a more believable position that nancy pelosi means business. Instead what it is conveying to a lot of people