Biden and his son hunter that might damage ump froms potential 2020 rival who has apparently taken up rental space inside Donald Trumps head. Giulianis plan to go to ukraine was corruption in plain sight. Before he backed out on tv giuliani told the times quote we are not meddling in an election we are meddling in an investigation which we have a right to do. All right. Despite cancelling the trip the president sent a message to ukraine that collusion is not something they will be hiding. And on sunday he said it would be appropriate for him to launch an investigation into joe biden and his son. Joining me chris advance, and malcolm nance, author the plot to destroy democracy and an msnbc legal analyst glen krishner. Thank you all of you. I want to start at the table. The impetus for deciding that collusion is not going to be hidden anymore, they are going to do it openly now. The predecessor is william barr, consignaturely year to the president and u. S. Attorney general who said the following in an exchange on may 1st testifying before congress. Senator chris coops is questioning him. Take a listen. What if a foreign adversary lets say north korea offers a president ial candidate dirt on a competitor in 2020 . Do you agree with me the campaign should immediately contact the fbi . If a foreign intelligence foreign intelligence service. A representative of a Foreign Government. He why. Says we have dirt on your opponent. Yes. Should they say, we love it lets meet. Yes, if it is a foreign intelligence service, yes. Parnell there wasnt a clarity for giuliani, who is a former u. S. Attorney to understand he shouldnt collude. It is a law change for the trump administration. If they are not going to enforce the law i understand why he is doing it. If you are not going to enforce open container laws i am going to have a beer on my stoop. The party has to understand that everything that trump did to steal the 2016 election he is going to do it again. Because it worked the first time. He is going to try to get information from russia. Russia we might as well have a democratic primary debate on kgb 1. Apparently their influence is that important. It is beyond that. Our elections are kploe myselfed and we are not doing anything to stop it. Swalwell has a bill to make exactly what krins coops is talking about explicitly illegal. Where is that bill . It probably wouldnt pass anyway. It is like that sign put up in the bathroom saying you have to watch your hands. It is shocking. Let me go the malcolm. Literally, giulianis quote is, i am not going to go because i think i am walking into a group of people who are enemies of the president and in some cases enemies of the United States. So that essentially says that he was going to go and talk to people who even he thinks may be enemies of the United States. And thats fine in his view. Yeah. Well, you know, i fear for this nation. We are in very, very serious trouble. When now we have a president and his ternl people have decided that laws that are out there Like Campaign finance laws, accepting information, you know, reporting on espionage can i point something out about the barr statement . Sure. He was explicit in saying his answer was related to foreign intelligence agencies, not Foreign Governments. And this is what russia did. They partially relied on the foreign intelligence agencies but they used intelligence subcontractors, oligarchs and people of influence to really carry out that campaign. What giuliani is saying by cancelling his meeting is that he personally is not going to go out and do this. He understand that is the Mueller Report defined conspiracy in a very specific way and he is not going to meet that standard. He will have other people go out that we will not hear about for years, go out and find that information and carry out this new apparently, you know, as secretary of dirty tricks for donald trump, and he will steal or impact this election in some way that will fundamentally break our electoral process. You know, let me play what jerry nadler, the chairman of the house ju dish Year Committee had to say. We have come to a sorry state when it is considered okay that an american politician never mind an attorney for the president to go and seek intervention in american politics. Is the challenge here one of the many many things we need to update in our daus is making explicit the thing of value that we include in our campaign not only needs to have monetary is value that things of dirt is illegal to trade in an American Election . I think thats right. One of the things we will see coming out of this administration same process that happened after watergate is tightening up the laws making more explicit what criminal conduct looks like. The Mueller Report did talk about things of value and there is sort of a hyper technical legal argument about an incomplete crime and how you put valuation to. That. This is something that congress can redo when they come to the law. But to the primary point, joy, i think the reason rudy canceled his trip here is exactly the reason malcolm puts forth, which is that his conduct was tantamount to a conspiracy and probably would have been an outright violation of the law. He said he was going to ukraine to get them to engage in an investigation that would benefit donald trump. He was going over to make the offer for ukraine to enter into a conspiracy with him. That would not have been difficult for prosecutors to prove even with that valuation issue. Great point. Glen kirschner i want to get you in on that. A lot of people forget Rudy Giuliani was a u. S. Attorney. He now seems to be freelancing as a consignaturely year for trump. After 9 11 he formed a firm that has a lot of foreign clients. He sounds a little bit like Paul Manafort to be blunt in the makeup of what he did for a living. How close would he have been skating . Do you agree with joyce that he would have been outright violating the law going around the country and looking for dirt on Donald Trumps 2020 opponents . How close would he have been skating . He would have fallen through the thin ice. And how in the world it is not like Rudy Giuliani didnt know hmm there might be some issue with me colluding with a foreign power to get dirt on a political adversary. I think we have been discussing that for a minute now. Elie i think is dead right here, joy, because by the president refusing to condemn this, he is encouraging it. He is all but saying russia, if you are listening, 2020 is coming up. We are going to need your help again. You know, if we dont start wrestling with some of these reforms you know we are going to be in a very sorry place as a republic. Yeah, i think the sad thing about it is elie, the democrats can pass all the reforms they want. None of it is passing in the senate. It is unlikely Mitch Mcconnell would even allow a bill that would protect our elections from foreign intervention to come to fruition because in part he is being reelected with president trump. They were things that help mcconnell and his party, too. One of the problems is that the Republican Party seems to be bought and paid for by these Interest Groups and foreign nationals apparently. I think it is still important to pass these bills. Mcconnell has to run again. If i am the democrat running against mcconnell i want it on the record that mcconnell will not stand up to defend the American Election. I dont know a lot of people in kentucky but those who i do know care about the basic legal factors. Being opposed to upholding the integrity of elections is important. Just to get him on the record. And per joe biden he is the guy who refused to cooperate with the obama Obama Administration in issuing a bipartisan joint warning to the American People. Quickly. It is important, as we are talking about russias attempts to influence 2020, to me it is so important that all the 2020 democratic primary candidates condemn this behavior and and do not accept any support that might be coming their way from russia. Et cetera important that all 22 of them get on the same phage and jointly done condemn russian influence. Lets take a quick turn. There is a seeming openness by this administration to help from foreign powers because trump needs to be get reelected to be blunt to stay out of prosecution. The only way he can ensure he is not prosecuted for anything is to stay president. We get that. On the other site, Lindsey Graham and william barr are assuming a policy of aggressive investigation. You now have donald trump threatening john kerry, also a private citizen. Lets listen to that. What i would like to see with iran, i would like to see them call me. John krerry sfes to them a lot. John kerry tells them not to call. Thats a violation of the logan act. And frankly he should be prosecuted on that. So that in and of itself sounds like seiko. Okay . That sounds like what you hear in countries that we normally send election monitors to. Thats one thing. The other thing is that republicans didnt used to mind calling iran. Remember the letter that was sent in march of 2015 where they tried to undermine president obamas iran policy, the iran deal that was the one thing keeping iran from Going Forward with a Nuclear Program . What do you make of this threat to potentially prosecute private sentence donald trump doesnt like but to prosecute fbi officials and investigatory people who tried to protect the American People from this kind of attack . If we talked about hip express and the Republican Party, we would be here for all eternity. Lets just focus and be very clear about the legal issue here, this notion that the president can direct Justice Department and the criminal justice apparatus to prosecute, to investigate people he thinks are his political enemies, that is the hallmark, as you correctly point out, of a banana republic. Thats the entire reason that the Founding Fathers were careful with the constitution, to make sure that american citizens wouldnt be subject to the whims of kings and queens as the Founding Fathers had been who could use criminal process to take out their enemies. The fact that the president is doing this is frightening. It is dangerous. It is a sign there are no more guardrails for democracy. The Republican Party should be standing up. It is not a political issue. It is not a partisan issue. It is an issue about how the constitution functions and they will regret if they do not stand up because it will be very difficult to walk back from this quote, unquote, new normal in america where the president can decide to prosecute his enemies. Glen, you have now the senate republicans, Lindsey Graham leading that charge seeking documents in the probe of the russia investigations origins and carter page, carter page, who got his fisa warrants renewed over and over and over again including by rod rosenstein. Lindsay graham requested documents and communications. They want to now go after chris teefr steel. They want to go after everyone who tried to uncover what russia is doing. Your thoughts . Lindsay graham is now basically leading the lock her up chant. And hes including lock up obamaera d. O. J. Officials who initiated this investigation into how russia was trying to interfere in our election. The chill effect that that might have Going Forward. Think about it. If i am a d. O. J. Employee an fbi agent or a prosecutor and i am told listen it looks like for example, north korea is trying to cyber attack our country and interfere with our Upcoming Elections and you catch that assignment, are you going to have in the back of your head if you id if i do this i might be attacked by a future administration for doing the wrong thing not the right thing to protect the country . Lindsey graham i think going after these people it is dangerous, and a per version of what the department of justice is supposed to be about. During the bush era we were torturing people in our custody in iraq, et cetera. And you know starving people in guantanamo. Now you do have this situation, james baker was on with Rachel Maddow and said he heard rumors that that Chilling Effect that glen was just talking about is already happening. What effect does that have on our National Security if people do that, if they are afraid of donald trump and william barr. In the bush era they were torturing people, water boarding, tortures. We had murder. Matter of fact donald trump pardoned an army officer who was tried in military courts and convicted of murder. He took a prisoner, took him out and shot him to death. This is now where the white house is giving them a green light. They are green lighting actual offenses that are being done by people who support their side. But the Chilling Effect, as you say is coming from they are going to investigate anyone that outs these terrible offensive things that come from the other side or that comes from the government bureaucracy. People will not be able to function. This government will come to a standstill. And i suspect thats what he wants. He wants people within the government to only do what he wants done, even if it includes committing crimes, lying, and holding up the system of justice. And then he will seek a pass for all of his supporters. We are in a very dangerous time in the United States where the president of the United States, as you say, he is the leader of a banana republic. Yeah. There is a lesson we have to go but there is a lesson for democrats as well. When democrats took over the house in 2006 they immediately took impeachment off the table. Right. Which means that the one constitutional remedy for things like torture, the sanctions was taken off the table. John u. Walked away. John complainy, they all walked away. Everything goes with the eun terry executive. Elie and joyce will be right back. Thank you malcolm nance and glen kirschner. Happy mohrs day to all the moms in your lives. Coming up. He ought to be put in jail. If he fails to comply with a lawful subpoena he has no privilege. Talking about donald trump jr. Who doesnt think he has to comply with subpoenas. We will ask elie and joyce what they think should happen to junior if he ignores those congressional subpoenas next. music throughout you wouldnt accept an incomplete job from any one else. Why accept it from your allergy pills . Flonase sensimist relieves all your worst symptoms, including nasal congestion, which most pills dont. And all from a gentle mist you can barely feel. Flonase sensimist. You can barely feel. Fine. No one leaves the table fine well sleep here. Its the easiest, because its the cheesiest kraft. For the win win. Its toughcold turkey. King so chantix can help you quit slow turkey. Along with support, chantix is proven to help you quit. With chantix you can keep smoking at first and ease into quitting so when the day arrives, youll be more ready to kiss cigarettes goodbye. 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Access netflix, prime video, youtube and more, all with the sound of your voice. Click, call or visit a store today. Your father denied reports he is worried you might be in legal jeopardy because of the mueller investigation. Are you scared that you could go to jail . I am not. I know what i did and i am not worried about all of that. That doesnt mean they wont try to create something. But, again, i am not. Welcome back to a. M. Joy. Donald trump jr. Seems awfully confident for someone who has the same name as the president but not the same immunity from prosecution. He is not just facing fed up democrats who want more answers following the release of the dedakted Mueller Report including about whether donald jr. Told the truth to Congress Investigators in previous trips to capitol hill but also at least one republican after the Senate Intelligence committee run by richard burr surprised everyone by dropping a subpoena on junior this week. Despite calls from republicans to drop the s p and end his committees russia probe burr is Standing Firm so far. Will don jr. Comply . What happens if he doesnt . Elie and joyce are with us and david jolly also joins the table. Before i get to you, david i want to go through the two attorneys. What should happen elie if donald jr. Doesnt comply. Does the immunity of the president were prosecution based on the olc memo flow through to anyone who shares h