That does it for me. Im alex witt. Am joy is next. Im a big fan of the nra. These are great people, great patriots. They love our country. But that doesnt mean we have to agree on everything. It doesnt make sense that i have to wait until im 21 to get a handgun, wu i have to waget ts at 58. We didnt address it. Because youre afraid of the nra. Good morning and welcome to am joy. On saturday the Florida State senate briefly voted yes only to ultimately say no to a School Safety bill that would have required a twoyear moratorium on the sale of assault rifles and high capacity magazines. The bill is the Florida Legislatures response to the mass shooting at Marjory StonemanDouglas High School last month. The amendments pitched by democrats were part of a push to enact some of the common sense measures, parkland survivors an families have asked for, some in person from the state capitol. The bill would raise the minimum age for a firearm purchase from 18 to 21, and impose a threeday waiting period for buying all classes of firearms. Here is the catch, it will impose a school martial program to arm teachers. Perhaps its a bid to win support from the nra which is opposed to the bill. In florida, nothing related to guns passes without the express permission of the nra and its dom minnive boss, former nra president mary hammer. Shes been a legislative force in florida for decades. Some call her the real and permanent governor of the gun shine state. Joining me to weigh in frank fig lose si, sarah and kimberly atkins, chief washington reporter at the boston herald. I guess ill start with you, frank. The Florida Legislature is attempting to fix what is probably one of the most permissive atmospheres for the carrying of firearms in the country, but they cant do it unless Marion Hammer says they can do it. They have to have the permission of the nra. What do you make of the fact that teachers dont want guns but thats probably what theyre going to get out of the Florida Legislature . Were getting a real inside glimpse of how it works within a state legislature with regard to the real relationship with the nra and their lobbyist. Some recent reporting reflects that literally nra lobbyists are crafting the language in legislation alongside state legislators and literally handing them the law. This is something thats quite disturbing because the nra really at its heart represents gun makers, not gun owners, and these are the people who are literally suggesting bills and legislation. So, look, teachers ive said this before, teachers being armed in the school simply adds more guns into the equation and handguns against the weapon of choice in Mass Shootings which are assault rifles simply dont work. Ask any Law Enforcement officer who has mounted in his patrol gun, a shotgun and a machine gun. He knows whats on the streets. Teachers with a handgun is not going to work. The data tells us its all about assault rifles. Were talking about creating an arms raisin side the classroom. Perhaps we should mount a machine gun and shotgun on the blackboard as we try to counter the assault coming into the classroom. Kim atkins, lets talk about the evolution of even the nra and republicans on this issue. I want to play Ronald Reagan on february 12, 1989 talking about his view of the Second Amendment when it comes to assault weapons. I do not believe in taking away the right of the citizen to own guns for sporting, hunting and so forth or for home defense, but i do believe that an ak47, a machine gun is not a sporting weapon or needed for defense. Kimberly, when you interview republicans, do they still believe that Ronald Reagan is emblematic of their party or in general are the republicans that you interview, have they gotten so far to the right of Ronald Reagan now that what he said is no longer operative as a Republican Point of view. I think when you ask him, they say of course, theyre a party of reagan still and embrace those principles. But the intervening factor that happened in that time is the explosion of the gun industry. I think youre right, the point that was made is that the nra is a lobby group for the gun industry, an industry that generates tens of billions of dollars in firearms, accessories and ammunition. In a sense, thats why things are so different now. That is why you see after there is a mass shooting and a discussion of gun control, the rhetoric of nra supporters is to scare people to believe that their guns are going to be taken away and actually spur purchases of guns. We usually see a gun manufacturing and sales go up after every one of these incidents. Its become a major money maker that its really difficult to push against. That is what keeps the money flowing into these lawmakers from the nra and the nra threats to campaign against them at election time if they support anything, even something as reasonable as bump stock legislation. The nra didnt back bump stock legislation. They wanted a regulation, something thats a lot easier to implement and a lot easier to reverse. Its a very, very strong stronghold it has over these lawmakers. Sarah, we can throw up a map of how states are scored by the giffords law center. Gabby giffords, a member of congress who was the victim of a mass shooter which changed nothing. Her colleagues in congress didnt change their attitude toward guns at all. The dark blue means youre more permissive. Then you look at the polling which is pretty overwhelming. Npr asked do you believe gun laws should be more strict or less strict . 75 at the end of february said more strict. The vast majority of the mayor condition people are on one side. The selfdeclared fivemillionperson strong nra in a country of 326 Million People say they should be more strict. How is it they have so much power . They have the power because this is about money. Theyre the people backing these politicians, putting these policies into action. Its a quid pro quo. I live in one of those states with a very high incidence of gun violence. I live in missouri. People like their guns, guns for selfprotection, for hunting. But people also want responsible gun laws. In our last election we had two candidates that had guns prominently featured in their ad. One was firing openly into a field who is now under state investigation. And another is calling for responsible gun regulation. You hear from veterans, from police, from everyday gun owners that they dont want their guns taken away, but they do want safety, responsible, sensible laws and they want dirty money out of politics. If theres a difficultier organization than the nra who are not representing their constituency, representing a corporate body, then i dont know what it is. I think thats a good point at which to bring in, a politics, somebody dealing with this issue and the nra. Matt getz, formally a member of florida, representing the First District of florida in the United States congress. Thank you for being here. Good to be on, joy. Ill have the panel hold on for a second. We just saw yesterday the response of the Florida Legislature where you used to serve attempting to respond to the parkland massacre in some meaningful way. There is an amazing story that i highly recommend people read in the new yorker. It talks about the state of florida and how it became a gun haven. Opens with a story by a man named jared moss cowits, hes talking about getting a call from his wife. He actually went to Marjory StonemanDouglas High School. He gets a call from his wife. They go because their kids go to school near that school and just the harrowing feeling of being a parent, not sure whats happening with your kids, and then going to tallahassee and being confronted by parents. He shakes hands with dan daily, young city commissioner. His words to me were do something. I had to tell him i legally cant do anything because the governor could take my job away if i tried. Mo Marion Hammer worked to enact in 2011, during rick scotts first year in office, a statute that punishes local officials. Officials can be fined thousands of dollars and removed from office. You backed that bill. I wrote it. Marion hammer wrote it and you added your name to it. No, i wrote it. Why shouldnt a local municipality be able to write their own gun laws . Because in the state of florida we dont want people to inadvertently to become criminals because they go from one county to another. We feel whatever the gun laws are, they ought to exist equally over the state and apply to all floridians the same way. Jared moscowitz is one of my heroes in politics. He works in a bipartisan way to provide solutions. Im proud that theyve worked to help create a system where our Mental Health laws and the screening of people will be better so they wont return home to their arsenals. Im proud of the work of the Florida Legislature to reform our Mental Health process where someone who is deemed a threat, in the custody of Law Enforcement or a Mental Health facility, well use that time more effectively so we can determine whether or not they should return home to guns. We ought to have power in the hands of local Law Enforcement with due process to ensure we have safer communities. Nothing in my 2011 law that would stop local communities from creating gunfree zones would impair that important work. I would suggest to you that in florida, the last Mass Shootings we had had occurred not in air whereas where we allow firearms but gunfree zones. When you put up signs in front of schools that says this is a dunnfree zone, i fear you make people at that school a target. I want to unpack a couple of things you talked about. You talked about local control, but your bill essentially says that the local elected officials that people work to elect have no power. They essentially are not allowed to even determine whether or not people are allowed, for instance, to shoot guns in local parks. The nra sued the mayor of tallahassee over that. Interestingly enough, the idea that every place in florida should be the wild west, are you aware in the 1880s in places like tombstone, arizona, the laws were incredibly strict, far stricter than it does today. The most infamous gun battle, wyatter was attempting to enforce gun ordinances. Some of the first laws they enacted were to restrict the carrying of firearms in local city limits. This country has a long history of local municipalities making their own decisions about gun laws. In fact, the homicide rates in those places in the wild west where you couldnt carry a gun into tombstone, arizona and these municipalities, they had much lower rates of homicides. Why is it that now in the modern era local municipalities should have no right to make their own laws . Well, weve come a long way. Yeah, higher homicide rates. Some of the highest homicide rates occur in some of the local municipalities who have the strictest gun laws, like chicago, like detroit. I dont think you can draw a comparison between local enhanced gun control. Who has more Mass Shootings, florida of illinois . Have you lived in chicago . Ive been there, not lived in there. When you were in a chicago last time you were in chicago, were you accosted, did a crime occur against you . Republicans seem to have quite an obsession with chicago. Lets talk about florida. In florida we dont want a patchwork of ordinances and laws in florida that would have Somebody Just because they inadvertently cross a county line with a rifle locked in that back of their trunk, that could be illegal in one municipality or legal in another. Or shooting a gun in a park thats not true. Thats absolutely truth. Thats unlawful discharge. Thats reckless discharge. Sued by the nra because they wanted to ban guns in park. Theres a difference between having a gun in a park and shooting a gun in the park. You conflated those. Im sure parents who have kids playing in the park would prefer not to have an ar15. They could vote to change state law. Theyve tried but your party wont let them because the nra said no. There are a number of places in florida where people really do cherish the Second Amendment. How many members does the nra have in florida . I think over a million. 300,000 by their own count. How many people live in florida . 20 million. So 300,000 people in florida are ruling over and making laws for 20 Million People. Its not just the membership of the nra. Theres countless people beyond dues paying members of the nra who support the nra. The pomg says the overwhelming majority of people want stricter gun laws. I want to stick with you for a moment. In this same new yorker article, it talks about the statute that you pushed that punishes local officials who try to pass gun laws stronger than state gun laws. Sponsor was a 28yearold republican representative. A close ally of Marion Hammer told me, on bills he sponsors, she works on it, i take it over and file it. She essentially writes the bills. One more quote here, this is describing Marion Hammers power and influence. Getz says one of ms. Hammers emails packs more political bunch than a hundred thousand tv from any state. She understands a key understanding of group identity. She and her follows are defending a way of life. Hammer exposes the treacherous ak shows. He invites her supporters to contact the official, tell them how you feel, do it today. You also have said that she that she uses super charged language, provocative language, keeps her followers apprised of who has been loyal to the Second Amendment and who has committed unforgivable betrayals. This is your quote. If youre with marion 95 of the time, youre a damn traitor. If i elect you as a politician, as an elected official, why is it that you are more beholding to Marion Hammer and obedient to her than you are to your constituents . Im not. Ive disagreed with Marion Hammer plenty of times. Can you name one . Sure. In the actual bill you reference, the preemption bill, i wanted stronger language to stop any type of back yard shooting rage. Marion wasnt comfortable with the language i selected. I told her that was the deal if i was going to be the sponsor of the bill, i wanted strong protection for discharge of firearms rather than just possession of the firearms. Thats the way the bill was enacted into law. There are plenty of circumstances where special Interest Groups put in influence because they want to allow legislation. Sometimes theyre successful, sometimes theyre not. I want to do one more quote here. One more quote from you. Shes the most successful gun lobbyist in the country. She is, but she doesnt get her way every time. Shes been fighting to end gunfree zones at schools for nearly a decade and shes been unsuccessful. I think if we had highly qualified she wants more guns. Of course she does. She always does. If they make people safer if theyre in the hands of people qualified to protect children. Are guns allowed to be carried where you work in congress . I think they should be. You want guns in the well of congress . Absolutely. Why dont you pass that law . When i was here for orientation, it was my first question you want guns in the well of congress . Yeah. I think we should be able to bring them to baseball practice. How about courthouses . I think there are some circumstances where you would not want to have guns in a particular environment. Why not . At courthouses you already have such Strong Security that theres a way to neutralize unlike in a school. Why do you want guns in control but not courthouses . In congress you have over 500 targets that are members. But in schools you have hundreds of targets, too. Thats why we need more guns in schools. Really . We need a force multiplier for the deputies and School Resource officers . The form of highly qualified how would s. W. A. T. Know who was the good guy, who was the bad guy you can have reporting systems to have them go through Law Enforcement training, former military, former Law Enforcement, they could be a force multiplier. In. Why didnt it work at Marjory Stoneman douglas when you had an armed gunman outside. There was one dude with a gun who didnt go inside. Imagine if the cop who laid his life a coach that laid his life down who had the ability to put the shooter down, we could have saved hundreds of lives. What happens if a teacher inadvertently shoots a student . We had people absolutely shoots a student. What if a teacher inadvertently shoots a student in the crossfire. Youre making up a hypothetical. Lets have one more quote your premise has to be an accident. Let me ask frank that questi question. You are a person who has worked closer to this field than i have. Do you think its a good idea to have armed teachers shooting it out with mass shooters in schools . I think its a convenient nice sounding bandaid approach that actually has no practicality and no data to defend it. Again, we know that the weapon of choice in these Mass Shootings over and over again is an assault rifle. Putting a handgun in the hands of a teacher does not counter the assault rifle. Putting it in the hands of Police Officers as we had multiple deputies responding, still didnt work. We would be looking at an arms race where now wed have to