Franken called for a Senate Ethics investigation into the allegations against him. The other man who stands accused faces on the record claims from nine women, most of whom were teenage girls at the time they say he targeted them with unwanted sexual advances. One was 14 and another 16 when she says roy moore sexually assaulted her. She told the new yorker moore had been banned from the mall because of harassment of teenage girls. Through his attorney sought to discredit one of his accusers. If we can recognize the differences in the offenses committed by these two men and how they responded, should we also recognize a difference in how to hold them accountable . Joining me now are our guests, Jennifer Rubin, and hussein, contributor for forbes magazine. Answer that question that i set up the segment on. Lets go down the row. Should they both be held accountable . Of course, they should. They both committed heinous acts. The fact that tweeden said i accept his apology, and there could be other people we have not heard that al franken has done this to. We are talking about different situations. Al franken is in office but the voters have to decide if thats the kind of behavior they want down the road. Roy moore is not in office yet, if you trolled high schools for dates, we dont want you. I think its a difference between zero tolerance, meaning you dont let these things go by, and then a grade in terms of what is the offense. Al franken will have to go before the Ethics Committee. They will have to make a determination. If this is the sole person, no other woman had been accosted by him, and perhaps something other than expulsion would be taken. We have to have a zero tolerance policy, it cant be who is less rapier. I agree, we have to have a zero tolerance and cant be selective with the degrees of outrage. Leann tweeden, the woman to whom al franken apologized, she had this to say on the view. I didnt want his career to end, i just wanted to shine the light and go, this is not right. He fessed up to it and apologized and i sincerely think i think he took in and realized, man, that he looks at it now and says i am disgusted by my actions. What is interesting here, so she says he apologized, i accept that, and one thing she just said is he fessed up to it. That seems to be one of the things the republicans and particularly the white house is latching on to, he fessed up and yet roy moore hasnt and the president hasnt, and that makes no sense to me at all. It doesnt make it okay as well. Just because he has not admitted it, it makes it okay. This is shear huh baypocrisy. What tprafranken did that was w. Roy moore has a thing where he will not only attack his accusers, but you have to bring out sherlock holmes, i want to see the handwriting. Either you did or didnt and move on and have the voters hold him accountable. Nobody else has come forward about al franken. That kind of behavior to me, thats the only person he was kidding around with, and roy moore we have nine. This is typical trump, if you confess and tell the truth that you are worse than the president of the United States, and you need to lie and defame the women that accused them. In this comparison, i dont for the life of me understand why the democrats keep harping on bill clinton that has been out of office for 20 years. Theres somebody in the oval office that needs to account and is comparable to roy moore, and thats the comparison we need to be making. Lets talk to republicans in the bind. Roy moore is a problem. Well, should be a problem for them. The alabama governor, lets take a listen to what she had to say. I will cast my ballot on december 12th and i believe the nominee of the party is the one i will vote for. Do you believe any of the women that brought accusations against roy moore . I certainly have a reason to disbelieve any of them. Theres no rational for Sexual Conduct or sexual abuse. It bothers me. If it bothers you, does that at all go into your decision in voting for him . The information certainly has an impact, but at the same time the u. S. States senate needs to have in my opinion a majority of republican votes to carry the day so by that logic, lets reward this person . This is the thing that drives me crazy about all of this. Folks that have been lecturing the nation about morality and values are rallying around this person who should be just on paper a total affront to what they believe in. I love the hypocrisy when it comes to something you want. Sexual assault may be bad unless i want somebody in power, and theft is wrong but i really want the flat screen off the back of the truck. The Republican Party erodes the brand. If this guy gets in office, they will all suffer. They have no moral authority, why would you not believe trumps but believe moores. Banner, they have to address the big fat orange elephant in the room. Jennifer, real fast. Donald trump is the albatross around their neck. They may get lucky and get rid of moore and the people of alabama may decide not to put him in office but trump lives on and the every question for republicans is why did you support him and why did you ever recommend him for office . We need to bring somebody in here who knows all, and is an expert on all of this, and thats the person whose show this is. Joy reid, lets get your views on the dilemma that the republicans seem to be in, which is, you know, forget about what we have said for five decades about morals and values, this is the guy and were going to stick in with them. The situational ethics, and it used to be what republicans talked about, and i concur with what jason said, i want this office and we want this power so we have to excuse something that goes im sorry, far beyond and beneath what you are talking about with bill clinton and monica lewinsky, and it was horrible in the dynamic of power, but its not child molestation. You are talking about the situation with al franken, which he repepbtd and apologized, and the president has more than 15 accusers. You have republicans literally saying as long as we get power we literally dont care who conveys that power to us. That person can be donald trump and brag about assaulting women, but we get power. That person can essentially been accused by nine women when they were children, but we get power. That person was banned from the mall because they were too creepy to walk around the mall. Whatever we said were our morals and values are irrelevant because we get power. One second. Yesterday in what is always an you always have an epic interview, and yesterday you had an epic interview with mark burns. Listen to this one thing. We need to be wise with due process. What due process could there with . This is not going to court. Morality is not the only qualification for leadership. We are discover ring that throughout the history of the bible and scriptures, we discover god used so many immoral people. He then threw dr. King under the bus. He drew david from the bible under the bus, and all of these had various sins, and that doesnt make a difference. The problem with that cono yo taeugs is it was coming from a pa pastor. David wrote psalms in repentance and not in celebration of his sin. The person that boasts of his since, donald trump, should be hired. The person who simply denies his since and calls his accusers all liars, roy moore, an accused child molester should be added to the United States senate. Its complete hypocrisy. I want to talk about the overall problem this poses for the Republican Party, and jeff flake from arizona got caught on a hot mike speaking truth. Come the party of roy moore and donald trump, we are toast. Jennifer . They are the party of toast. They are party the donald trump. And to joys point, this was the natural conclusion of a party that would stand behind a heinous individual like donald trump. Once you have done that, you will accept anything, child molesters and murderers, theres no end to it. They made a pact with the devil and are stuck with him. They will have to go into 2018 and have to explain to the voters why they are enabling somebody who has almost 20 accusers of physical abuse. I think the republicans need to think long and hard about this idea. This man hes not allowed in brookstone but will be allowed in the senate. This is what we are talking about here, do you want that to be your party . I am worried we will get distracted. The most important thing to remember in all of this, Sexual Assault are not partisan issues. We are equally capable of abusing women. John f. Kennedy is not in office right now, and bill clinton is not in office, and we have to talk about the president. And bill clinton was held to account. 70 millions was spent holding bill clinton to account with that affair of monica lewinsky, and there was an examination of his life and he was impeached. If you want parody then, should not donald trump be subjected to and use bill clinton as an example. Another victim in all of this, and this comes from al. Com, some pastors uphold roy moore, and the spade of accusations against men in politics, hollywood and elsewhere was a war on men. More women are sexual predators than men. Young women are changing boys up and down the road but we dont hear about that because its not pc. Part of it, so much of the Trump Movement was around race we forgot a big movement was the man movement, the notion that women were out of place and out of the box, persecuting men. Part of that is the idea that women are sinful in nation, and women cause men to sin. There are a lot of religions that place the blame of sin on women. Its just a core part of a religio religious beyond that, its rape culture 101. This is normalizing mens sexual violence. From eve to monica, give us a break. This is like making the argument that whites during the Civil Rights Movement were abused because people in the street were holding up traffic therefore the poor whites need our help and sympathy. I was prepared for the war on christmas, i didnt know there was a war on men. On that note, i have to give joy her house back. Thank you. After the break, joy, yeah, she gets her show back. Yeah, take your show back. Stay with us. With most Airline Credit cards, you only earn double miles when you buy stuff from that airline. Is this where you typically shop . Is this where anyone typically shops . Its time to switch to the capital one venture card. With venture, you earn unlimited double miles on every purchase, everywhere, every day. Not just airline purchases. Seriously. Double miles. Everywhere whats in your wallet . Moderate to severe Rheumatoid Arthritis was intense. My moms pain from i wondered if she could do the stuff she does for us which is kinda, a lot. And if that pain could mean something worse. Joint pain could mean joint damage. Enbrel helps relieve joint pain, and helps stop further damage enbrel may lower your ability to fight infections. Serious, sometimes fatal events including infections, tuberculosis, lymphoma other cancers, nervous system and Blood Disorders and allergic reactions have occurred. Tell your doctor if youve been someplace where fungal infections are common. Or if youre prone to infections, have cuts or sores, have had hepatitis b, have been treated for Heart Failure or if you have persistent fever, bruising, bleeding or paleness. Dont start enbrel if you have an infection like the flu. Since enbrel, my moms back to being my mom. Visit enbrel. Com. And use the joint damage simulator to see how joint damage could progress. Ask about enbrel. Enbrel. Fda approved for over 18 years. The bottom line is that the white house, the president is not going to sign a bill that raises taxes on the middle house. The house passed their version of tax reform and the senate is planning to follow suit after thanksgiving. But with headlines like this one, the legislation is vulnerable, to say the least. Thank you guys all for being here. Lets start with what mull veina mulvaney said this morning on with jake tapper. He asked why the senate bill makes the Corporate Taxes permanent but the individual tax cuts expire. Listen. Maybe this is permanent and this is not and maybe the estate taxes double for a couple years and then goes away is to shoe horn the bill into the rules of the senate, because of the absurd rules, the senate requires 60 votes on everything, in order to get the 50 vote treatment under reconciliation, we have to follow the budget act of 1974. It doesnt speak to the quality of the policy and its trying to manipulate the numbers and gain the system by using gimmicks. With Andrea Mitchell on meet the press just now, he used the same language, its a gimmick. Is that a positive argument for a tax bill saying its a gimmick . In order to make it work the senate will have to abide by the rules, and the bird rule doesnt allow for a deficit impact. Its politically smart, because this is not the kind of tax reform conservatives have been looking for and it sets up the expiration deadline allows the lawmakers another bite at the apple down the road. For the average taxpayer hearing the budget director say hes using gimmicks and then hears my tax cuts are temporary but Corporate Tax cuts are permanent, why couldnt it be the other way around . The actual official scoring game out on the tax bill shows virtually every person that earns less than 75,000 a year is actually going to have their taxes go up by the end of this tax bill. I dont think the republicans are going to be able to explain this away. The only reason the wrath of god opposition has not dissented on the tax bill is because it has not come up for passage. If the republicans think or the president thinks hes going to get an easy victory here, all you have to do is look in the bill and its going to massively raise students on students, schools, teachers, on people who have large medical expenses, on homeowners. To recognize nothing like this is going to pass through the senate or is going to pass, even if it gets through the senate or the house. That is the question, because you have a tax bill that the center on budget policy put out a chart and we put it up on the screen, shows the change for after tax income on all the brackets, and the people above the million get the benefit, its going up for them, so they are getting more after tax income, and the people between 10,000 and 20,000 a year lose the most, they are being hurt the most. You are eliminating things like the child medical expense deduction. How do you explain to the average american why the richest people above 1 million should have more after tax income put that chart back up, if you could. Why does the poorest people between 10,000 and 20,000 have less . This is a highly misleading chart because it assumes all of the tax changes set to expire will be allowed to expire. I dont think thats going to happen. Most likely lawmakers will reverse those well before they will expire. The other aspect of this likely assumed the individual mandate appeal part of the Affordable Care act will raise taxious, and it it will cost 13 million their health care. Once their premiums are unaffordable its because of the regulations in the law. They will better be able to afford health care and have higher wages lower income. Look at the chart. This is bad math. If people have 1. 5 less income, how will they have more income to buy health care once the individual mandate is repealed . Two things going on there. The first is there are people when the individual mandate goes away, the point is it raises the price of everybody else. If you are buying health care on the exchanges and a whole bunch of people drop out of the market, the prices go up. Thats why they want to do this. They are actively trying to destroy the working obamacare exchanges. Its not just that some people wont choose to get health insurance, and its going to raise the prices for everybody else. The second thing is, you heard mulvaney himself when he described it as a gimmick, and they said they dont want to abide by the absurd rules, and those are rules that require you to pay for your tax cuts. If you look at the rules in the bill, if they pass a bill there will be a direct and immediate cut to medicare because it has to be paid for. These arent absurd rules. Whats happening is they are trying to count on gimmickry and smoke and mirrors to get things through that they know if you put them on the table nobody would support. What they want to say is, well, let us take large tax cuts and let us assume that in the future somebody will get rid of the tax increases, and therefore sneak a camel underneath the tent. You cant count on future congres congresses to not you say we are going to do a tax cut and we are going to cut medicare and medicaid and we are going to have to trigger see see questation cuts that called Social Security disability welfare, and so the reason to make the Corporate Tax cut permanent because its the most pro growth policy. When have lowering there are many examples. Canada and germany. They raised other taxes so they could lower their corporate rate is that what you do look, ive been on record in the Obama Administration was on record of lets try to find ways to reduce the corporate rate paid for by getting rid of deductions within the corporate system. What does not make sense is lets pay for a big cut in Corporate Taxes and abolish the state tax for billionaires and a bunch of other income directed things and lets pay for it by taxing the middle class. That doesnt make sense and thats what this bill does now. Thats why its not going to proceed. Let me play on that point of the estate tax. Only a few pay the estate tax, and eliminating that would create enormous wealth for those families, including the trump, but this is what trump had to say about the bill. Tax reform will protect middle income, and not the wealthy, they can call me all they want, its not going to help. Its not good for me, believe me. Thats what he tells his supporters and they believe anything he says. Trump and his family could be saving more than 1 billion under this bill. The ae state tax is one of the most antigrowth policies. The numbers we ignore, countless families plan their estates around 11,000 its a family owned business that has to sell assets in order to pay a tax bill because somebody in the family died. The trumps, the kochs, are we saying we need to protect the koch family from the estate well, the wealthier are going to pay higher taxes. The wealthy are pay