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we're going to build a wall. don't worry, we're going to build a wall. we're going to build the wall. good sunday morning. welcome to "am joy." now on saturday at 6:00 p.m. in virginia, donald trump was making a not so joyful noise about building a wall. but according to buzzfeed and univision, earlier in the day at trump how tower in new york he sang a different tune telling members of the newly formed hispanic advisory council he was in fact open to creating a path to legalization for undocumented migrants. they are disputed that report and with a reporter, and the washington post ej deon and campaign sur gas steve cortes. and who i e-mailed you at 11:00 last night, so sank you so much for coming in it and give us this report about the meeting at trump tower where he changed his views on immigration. >> i think the reason this stands out is because where trump had been that no candidate had gone before. so building the wall and deporting everybody was the stance that he had repeatedly talked about, but yesterday with the hispanic advisory council he was talking about a humane and efficient way for people to send ideas on how to deal with undocumented migrants that is not deportation. and now people are taking issue with the word "legalization" but if you are letting people stay, whatever form, it is some form of legal status you are discussing. so yesterday they are all -- all of the hispanic advisory council members left the meeting very happy and excited because they told me this is a candidate they support already. but to hear him sort of be more open to immigration in a way that he hasn't been before, they feel would be an opening to this hispanic community to say, what you've been hear being trump, this is not so bad. >> to be very clear, this is the key reason that trump has cratercrate cratered in terms of his support and romney got 27% and trump is polling behind that and potential latino surrogates and hispanics have stayed away from donald trump because of the deport 11 million people and deport and he played that in the morning, that morning in virginia, he still screaming build the wall so do the people in this advisory council, do they actually believe he was saying something that he wants to do policy-wise or just telling them something they want to hear. >> all of them told me to a man that he was so open and talking about how much latinos have done for the country, both in the military and business. and of course some of them -- he was saying that latinos do jobs that nobody else wants to do and some of them in the room were look, well none of us do manual labor or hourly jobs but it is -- >> and steve cortes, are you a member of this hispanic advisory council. >> i'm not. i'm part of the campaign. for the trump counsel and this was for new hispanics that recently came around. there is an extensipansion of t council, so i might become part of it. >> and you understand why people on the right are not amused by the sudden change to the marco rubio position that donald trump has been ridiculing since last year. he popularized himself among members of the conservative world by saying build the wall and he was saying it just yesterday morning before he went to this advisory council member. so there is the hypocrisy and contradiction, how do you explain that. >> i understand that. and there are two different issues. the border is different from dealing with undocumented people. border has to be secured -- >> but wait a minute, steve. not for donald trump. he said they would deport 11 million people and begin the deportation and build the wall. >> those are two different issues. the wall will be built. by the way, we have a large wall. hillary clinton voted for an extension of that wall. >> but he has a policy where they will build a wall and deport people are you saying he has now changed his mind and he no longer intends to do the deportation that he promised supporters. >> he has not changed his mind on the border, that is not negotiable. >> regarding the deportation. >> yes. there is a wide range of policy options between amnesty, which is off the table permanently and mass deportation. i think trump is willing to see where within the wide range of options makes the most sense. has he changed position. >> that is a change of position. and can i ask you a question, steve. just personally, are you comfortable with that terminology "illegal". >> i'm comfortable with it here. my father came here and worked legally and became a united states citi. and for those that came here legally, it is insulted that they shouldn't be protected just as all americans could be such as illegals competing with them in the labor market and infli inflicting crimes and costs for tax dollars so i think legal hispanics who did it the right way should be insulted when the media tried to lump the entire hispanic community in as a group that skirts the law. >> i don't think the media is saying the media. i think that is disingenuous and wrong and what i asked you is whether the term legal that is seen as a path orive makes you uncomfortable. no one in the media has lumped people in. and the polling shows it is conservative voters who misbelieve that the majority of hispanics are in the country without documents. it is actually conservative voters who have that misimpression. >> i want to come quickly to aid re an. and he is saying there is no change on the trump campaign and that does not seem to be true. >> i think what mr. cortes talked about, the trump campaign said yesterday, he is still talking about border security and how that is important but when he talked about humane policy before, he was talking about humanely deporting everybody. now if they are talking about humanly figuring out some way a number of people could stay, that would be a legal way for them to stay and that is a big difference from the beginning of the campaign to the top. >> he is open to ideas. >> i want to play the ad. >> he is open to ideas. >> i want to play the ad and bring in the rest of the panel. and e.j., i'm starting with you and this is the ad now running from the donald trump campaign as of friday, so the day before this apparent change of mind on the issue of immigration, this is the ad that the trump campaign dropped $4 million in four states. >> in hillary clinton's america, the system stays rigged against americans. syrian refugees flood in. illegal migrants get to stay, collecting social security and skipping the line. our border open and it is more of the same, but worse. donald trump's america is secure, terrorist and dangerous criminals kept out, the borders secure and our families safe. change that makes america safe again. >> and e.j., that imagery still running in terms of the ad by the trump campaign and steven bannon who attended this out reach advisory committee presided over breitbart.com and daka migrants and illegal alien crime accounted for 30% of murderers and food stamps and et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. do you see a contradiction here e.j. >> i guess i salute mr. cortes for trying as hard as he can for putting the best face possible on what is a clear contradiction in a strategy and in trump's position. that ad, by the way, we should sort of right away say all of the fact-checkers note, they don't collect social security. and a lot of that footage comes from president obama and the current administration enforcing the border. but let's be clear what is going on here with trump's kind of trying to cozy up in this -- behind closed doors to the hispanic community. if you -- the only way trump can win right now is if you repealed women's suffrage and the voting rights act because he is running so far behind among women and so far behind among african-americans and latinos that it is very hard for him to make up the difference. on top of that, he is doing very badly among college-educated whites. he has not go move those numbers. and so what you are seeing is say number of moves trying to get at least some share of the african-american vote. he's almost being shut out in the polls even though most of what he is saying is aimed at his base and he wants to bump up latino numbers which are lower than mitt romney and which is terrible and trying to reassure moderate white voters. he has a hard time here. and i think what he'll try to do is go after hillary clinton so hard that he drives some of the anti-trump vote ay from her and toward the third party candidates, gary johnson, and jill stein the green and he could only split the majority. >> and that is an interesting point, karine, a scattered approach that in the morning is in favor of build the wall and getting those crowds to chant the thing they like to chant at the rallies, in the evening sitting in front of a hispanic advisory commission and saying we are going to do something softer and then disputing adrian's report of univision and saying it is not true that he is changing his position. it is kind of all over the place. even the ads that we showed on -- rachel maddow brought out to the center for immigration studies is one of the right nationalism organizations that puts out information that impugns migrants. >> trump is trump. he is who he is and there is nothing to change that. but to add to what e.j. was saying, a lot of the anti-trump voters are not going to vote and that is probably the biggest problem that trump and the republicans are going to have. and so coming to the potentially new immigration stance, it is riddles with hypocrisy, as usual. any time he talks about policy or tries or pivot and it is just hypocrisy upon hypocrisy and what leads me to understand is this is dangerous for latino and african-american voters, everything that trump talks about is going to be -- it going to hurt those communities and that is what he continues to do. >> karine. >> steve cortes. >> i think real hypocrisy is what the democratic party has been doing is taking their votes for granted. force hillary clinton, it is not that black lives matter, it is that black votes matter. and the same is for the hispanic community. and the people of color are not doing well economically and they don't have a share of the american dream. >> i hear -- >> and one-third of children live in poverty and largely in cities that are completely controlled by the democratic party, detroit, philadelphia -- chicago and they've had decades of control. >> we'll you back on to talk about the segment, but we would like to stay on topic. let's try to stay on topic. karine wanted to respond. >> in 2013, the rnc put out and said, hey guys, let's reach out to the latino voters and to african-american voters because, romney ran a race just on white voters. and so where is the lesson there. you did it in 2012 and doing it now in 2016. >> and the question i have for you steve is you had romney running on self-deportation and immigration as a hot-button issue for trump supporters, opposed not only to undocumented but to immigration and if you look at the p.r. polling, they just oppose immigration period so you have hard core anti-immigration and my question is how will they respond to this message that is aimed at white suburban voters to make them more comfortable with the trump campaign but how will the hard right respond to what seems like a flip flop by donald trump in your view. >> and listen, and i understand this is confusing but i think hard core trump supporters that are concerned, they will be reassured as long as we tell them we have to play by the rules and it is as important to migrants and native born people that we don't have the security threats of open borders and the wage competition of illegal immigration which is terrible for people of color. so i think they will stand by trump on this. and he hasn't changed anything. what he's done is ask for input from an important constituency which is latin americans in the united states and we haven't done well with this historically and i appud him in reaching out and humbly asking for advice and input. >> and to adrian on the reporting aspect. >> if he is not deporting people, that is a big deal and when he talking to african-americans and saying what is the worst he could happen, hispanic voters have seen him for a year and a half on spanish language news and that is a problem going forward. >> and you are getting pushback from the right. this is a flip flop from the marco rubio position. >> trump surrogates are worried about this and they want to see the classification on the speech on thursday. >> and last word to e.j. deon. >> i think we're seeing an interesting science experiment here. as steve bannon comes in that means they are doubling down on the white nationalist. and kelly anne conway wants to send nice signals about a new trump and trying to get the other two votes and how the two strategies live together is an interesting drama over the next several weeks. >> and maybe over the next several days because one of these a day. you'll be back later in the show and thank you to all of you. and coming up, donald trump is tanking in the polls and there is concern that he could take the rest of the republican party down with him. more on that next. 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(to dog) that's a good boy. thanks? oh, and you can even see how your current card compares to others out there. wow. convenient. ooh. somebody wants a belly rub. what, now? get your credit scorecard at discover.com. free for everyone, even if you're not a customer. i certainly would not want to be running the donald trump campaign for lots of different reasons. but when look at that map and you realize, as you just noted, that hillary clinton actually has 273 electoral votes, three more than needed among likely and safe states, it makes it much more difficult to obviously for trump to win. >> and there you have it. famed crystal ball elector sabato saying it looks bleak for trump. and owning the electoral college, 348 to 190 and you only need 270 to win so that is not good and there are no toss-up states on his map. another november prediction, this one by the cook political report does have toss-ups, including florida, north carolina and new hampshire and state where senators are fighting to hang on to seats. in sabato's man, those are likely or leaning democrat meaning trump's sagging candidacy could jeopardize control of the senate and maybe even the house. karine and steve are back with me and perry bacon jr. you are our d.c. whisperer this morning. how concerned are republicans that donald trump numbers could sink them in the senate and maybe even begin to creep over into the house? >> very, very concerned. i think mitch mcconnell last week was -- in louisville, he was saying, i'm not sure i'll be majority leader again. and he is right. based on what we're seeing right now, the democrat needs to win four seats and they are ahead in five and they could win up to eight. so the senate control, right now today, it is pretty clear that democrats win the senate. the house is different for a lot of reasons we could get into but it looks like right now even though trump is so far behind hillary, a lot of the individual house races, the republicans are okay in and they are likely to hold on to the house. >> and steve, let's go to you on that and we've broken these up into three charges and let's start with the first one that we've called cold blue states. illinois, colorado, wisconsin and new hampshire. and these are states slip ago -- slipping away for the republicans. in illinois, a tough race for mark kirk, colorado, the clinton campaign has stopped advertising there because they feel that confident. russ fine gold is running away with getting his seat back and then new hampshire a state that looks good for the democrats. how concerned should the trump campaign be that they are actually hurting their senate chances, particularly in a state like colorado where the hispanic vote is so important. >> joy, that is a valid question because in recent years there is very little split ticket voting. we've seen mo-- most voters, th vote the same party down the ballot. but this is an unconventional year and donald trump is the most unconventional candidate perhaps ever and certainly in our lifetime. so i think there might be more split ticket voting. and i'll concede i'm from illinois and i think the senator is in trouble but i think the senator from new hampshire could come back but i think this breaks the mold from what we could expect because it is such an unexpected conventional candidate. >> what would cause someone to vote for hillary clinton and the republican candidate in colorado endorsing trump? why would someone do that. >> if they believe, and i don't believe this, but if they believe that donald trump is going to lose, they may want a serious check upon the power of hillary clinton and that is a very reasonable and rational decision for somebody who basically leans conservative but for whatever reason isn't willing to hop on board the trump train and they split their ticket and i would see a lot of that. but i would point this out, in the key states for the presidential election, which are florida, ohio and pennsylvania, i think the senators in two of those and florida and ohio, the republican senators are looking strong and starting to trend even stronger. pennsylvania, i would concede is probably still a toss-up. but i think we'll do much better in the senate than people think. >> and let's bring in the states that are called the must-wins and that is arizona, ohio, pennsylvania and florida. and john mccain is open about the fact that trump is not helping him in a state thats that a large in a -- in a state with a large republican party and in pennsylvania and in florida, marco rubio needing to come back and rob portman not doing bad in ohio and which one of the states do the democrats feel most strongly they could pick off. >> pennsylvania, that is clearly in the democratic wing column for a while. arizona is looking very interesting. here is what is happening. hillary clinton is expanding her map and donald trump's map is shrinking. that is the bottom line here. when you look at the numbers post convention and compare hillary clinton's numbers to george w. bush in 2000 and bush in 2004 and obama in '08 and '12 and she is overperforming and that trend continues. there could potentially be a clinton wave come november which is how obama was able to win indiana, north carolina and virginia. and all of that was due to turn-out. and that is the potential line that we are looking at if everything stands. >> and indiana and north carolina are the danger zones for the republican party. perry, i want to come to you quickly on the state of the house. i was speaking with a democratic house member of new york who pointed out that democrats need 30 to pick up to take the house back and six of the 30 are actually in the state of new york. there are six republican house districts that are in jeopardy of going down. so is it the case that what is left of the blue state republicans might be the path back to a house majority for democrats? >> sure. if the democrats do really well in new york, in pennsylvania, there aren't many republicans left in the northeast. so that is part of the problem. there is no path that doesn't involve other parts of the country as well, suburban virginia is a place where the democrats need to get gains. virginia, florida, there is a lot of blue states with republican members but a lot of the districts are drawn away to protect the republican members so it is harder than you think. i think there are two scenarios you could see the election going. one is you could see, like karine said, the way the democrats could win the congress and republican voters stay home because they don't like trump and therefore democrats have a big wave and maybe win the house. and the other thing in ohio, where rob portman is ahead by five points and even though hillary clinton is leading and you see republicans and moderate voters who say i will vote for portman and clinton and not voting for trump and you're seeing races in the senate where the republican is running about five points ahead of donald trump, meaning that a lot of republicans and other voters will be not for trump but potentially do the check thing, where they want to balance out hillary by voting for rob portman or a marco rubio. you are seeing evidence of that right now. that may change. but right now the republican candidates are doing better. >> that is what steve cortes is saying. we have an agreement. and we'll be back in the next hour. and after the break, this weekend marks the 25th anniversary of the crown heights riot in brooklyn, new york. we'll hear from reverend al sharpton and public enemy's chuck d. when we come back. you don't want to miss that. great show. here you go. now he's added a new routine. making depositing a check seem so effortless. easy to use chase technology, for whatever you're trying to master. isaac, are you ready? 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(avo) love. it's what makes a subaru, a subaru. get zero percent on select subaru models during the subaru a lot to love event, now through august thirty-first. it was known as the most bitter racial clash in new york city in a generation. the crown heights riots which erupted in brooklyn after a black 7-year-old, gavin, was struck and hit by a car that was part of a orthodox motorcade. a young jewish man was stabbed to death by a black teen in retaliation. this is the 25th anniversary of the riots which resulted in hundreds of injuries and caused a long simmering tension between jewish and black brooklyn residents to explode. check out this report from wnbc. >> an african-american crossing guard helping orthodox jews cross the street, a simple moment that takes on added meaning. on the same corner where black teens stabbed yankel rosenbaum 25 years ago today, still painful for his brother. >> a numbness, a sense of helplessness and a sense of loss, real loss. >> reporter: and for relatives of gavin cato, the 7-year-old crushed by a hasidic driver just before the stabbing. those deaths led to riots in what some say as new york's low point in the crime riddled summer of '91 and this week his father told my healing took time. >> as a father, i wanted to see things better. >> and to get a better understand of how 25 years has impacted crown heights we got the perspective of two mayors, the man in office now and the man he worked for back then, david dinkens. >> the community does much, much better today than it did 25 years ago. >> he faced criticism police were too passive. but the former marin sifts he ordered the nypd to toughen tactics. something news 4 captured in the wake of the 1991 riots, 2000 cops in crown heights. >> it was so unfair for me to be accused of holding back the police and permitting blacks to attack jews given my record with the jewish community and the state of israel. >> the crown heights community over a quarter century has achieved a miracle. >> reporter: back at the intersection, neighbors say what has truly changed is communication. >> we get together and thank god help deal with things very different than we dealt with things 25 years ago. >> black and white come together as one. >> reporter: a unified message from a part of the city that once seemed hopelessly divided. >> and joining me now is hurrah leaf from the brooklyn historical society. i want to give you one more sound bite. i spoke with reverend al sharpton and this was him becoming a national figure, this moment in history. take a listen. >> here we have in the middle of crown heights, which was a surrounding black area, a community of hasid im, a orthodox jewish community that had built their own self-contained kind of community and it was felt they were treated differently by police and by first responders and others than the broader black community. it became the flash point for violence. but the build-up had been the resentment all along. >> and in what ways has crown heights changed since then. >> you can't tell this story of crown heights without telling the story of the riots and tell the story of the riots without telling the longer history of crown heights. as the clip suggested, these were long-standing relationships that had been managed, sometimes for good and bad and dating back to the '70s. issues of housing and policing existed in the '70s and the '80s and the '90s and crown heights has changed between 2000 and 2010, the white population has doubled an the block population decreased by 13% and what is important is how we remember the riots. one of the things that happens is the story of the riots that are told is that if no history exited before the riots and they become this ground zero in this triumphant story of recovery thatten developers genderification and we don't talk about the displacement of people and what happens is the eraser of their story and crown heights -- the earliest settlement was weaksville in 19th century by free black men and women so determine rights to vote. and there is a determination in crown heights and we haven't looked at that history. the jewish community history is important in crown heights as the headquarters of the hasidic community and you also have a strong caribbean community which is demonstrated every labor day weekend by which is the largest caribbean festival so it is important to not erase all of the different stories when we talk about the history. >> and as someone who lives in crown heights, sherry chrism is something of the story and in the areas where you travel, you feel that as well. >> exactly. crown heights was a site of political activity and the college came out of the struggle for community controlled schools and now one of the four senior colleges of the cuny system so there is a lot of crown heights that i think the focus on the riots tends to overshadow. and even the story of the riots needs to be told in this broader project. >> and there is something you are involved in and briefly tell us about that. >> so the brooklyn historic society is undertaking a multi-year documentary called the voices of crown heights is the best way to tell the story is through the voices and experiences of the people who lived there and today from 11:00 to 1:00 there is a commemoration of the lives lost during the riots and from 1:00 to 5:00 at the brooklyn children's museum which is also in my neighborhood, we're having a neighborhood festival to celebrate the recovery over the years. >> excellent. i'm heading over there later. >> thank you for having me. >> and after the break, more about crown heights with public enemy founder chuck d. ♪ don't just eat. mangia! bertolli. at ally bank, no branches equals great rates. it's a fact. kind of like grandkids equals free tech support. oh, look at you, so great to see you! none of this works. come on in. now you can't spell nutriam i right?t nut, i mean whose to say it's pronounced nu-triton, anyway? my mixes contain delicious nuts, specially blended for your optimal nut-rition. that's right, i just changed a word in the english dictionary, forever. planters. nutrition starts with nut. at the scene of monday's accident, several protesters blocked street and urged people to join in. some mothers whisk their children off the street fearing a scene like last night and some insist they feel the same about inequity they say are exemplified by the handling of a hasidic man's whose driving ended a little boy's life. >> when you see this on the sidewalk, you have to stop it. why is he not locked up. >> welcome back to "am joy." when the crown heights erupted in brooklyn, new york, 25 years ago, rabbi khan's public enemy were in the front lines through hip-hop and a message of resistance. the 1989 single fight the power served as part anthem, part call to action. and joining me now from boston is chuck d. you could see i'm nervous because i'm such a huge fan. change you for being he-- thank being here. >> thank you, joy. i owe you one. >> this is the soundtrack for those of us in the formative years, it was that period in our history. what do you think the role was of hip-hop in terms of the activism. because you guys were really out in the front lines. what was your role at that time? >> well, especially with groups like ex-clan who were from brooklyn and on the front line and mumbo carson and chub rock also from brooklyn and they spoke to the inequities in the region at that particular time. you see new york has an unusual dynamic. people had been [ inaudible ] and there is a lot of water and you have islands and peninsula and people live vertical and close together and the only thing was the respect from communication and all of the inequities followed. you had the first signs of white flight in brooklyn. and white flight was, okay, we can own the property but not have the maintenance of the area like we kept it before. crown heights had a very unusual dynamic. the communities -- they were thinner communities, leaned up against each other and there was a large disparity as far as the have and have-notes in that one region so it was bound to be a powder keg when the treatment was on stage at that time so the music kind of spoke to, hey, let's level this out and have everybody treated equally instead of this quote, unquote,en equity and the mayor caught a bad one on that because he to respond to the communities that were -- that were tight together. and we had asked -- basically said, hey, us as a black community have to be as tight as the other communities putting the pressure on the mayor and he was caught in the middle of that and the music spoke to the people at the time to stand up and be strong and be united and unfortunately fear of the black community at that time was more prevalent in new york city because everybody in new york looks at each other and in mass transit, goes to work together in droves but the communication is what we asked for. >> and obviously that period of time helped the rise of one rudy giuliani who essentially demonized david deskins and blamed heim for the violence that he was assigning to the african-american community exclusively. when you see somebody like giuliani out there now, opining about african-american communities the way he does, what do you think, as a new yorker and somebody who lived through that period with him? >> you mean adolf -- i mean rudolph? i mean, really, it is like -- it is just lame to just say i'm going to run for something because the guy that -- or the woman that preceded me was just too soft and cared about everybody and the way i'm going to actually speak about it, i'm going to clean it up. but to clean it up, it usually meant in those type of situations like get rid of people, not answer the people that you don't consider important, not consider a community important, not even consider them a community. and lock them up in a -- in a political and financial system that you are connected to. so it's typical. >> and do you -- lastly, would you like to see more hip-hop artists, i mean others that are very active in terms of speaking out about issues of in equity and injustice would you like to see hip-hop more on the front lines the way p.e. was back in the day. >> well i'm involved with profits of rage -- it is one of the mixed rap situations in the country right now. and in cypress hill, rage against the machine and public enemy members came up to see if we could make america rage again. and just making america rage again is just to think again. so we are going out with this campaign, c.a.m.p.a.i.n. with a thought and political message and we hope that rap and rock music will follow and just mass explosion of culture. >> well we will definitely be paying attention. chuck d., it is an honor to talk to you. thank you for being here. >> thank you, joy, i appreciate you. >> thank you. and in the next hour, donald trump's southern strategy and the alt-right campaign and up next, many still can't get enough of hillary clinton's e-mails. stay with us. dies react by overproducing 6 key inflammatory substances. most allergy pills only control 1. flonase controls 6. and six is greater than one. with flonase, more complete relief means enjoyment of every beautiful moment. flonase, six is greater than one, changes everything. ♪ craso come dive into disheser like the new alaska bairdi crab dinner with sweet crab from the icy waters of alaska. or try crab lover's dream with tender snow and king crab legs. love crab? then hurry, crabfest ends soon. but my back pain was making it hard to sleep and open up on time. then i found aleve pm. the only one to combine a sleep aid plus the 12 hour pain relieving strength of aleve. now i'm back. aleve pm for a better am. will your business be ready when growth presents itself? our new cocktail bitters were doing well, but after one tradeshow, we took off. all i 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earlier in the show i said that the donald trump hispanic council meeting was in the evening and it is the other way around. the meeting was in the morning and the build a wall speech was in the evening. i want to make sure we get that correct. and coming up, the donald trump campaign reboots. he may be changing the team but is he changing his message and i'll have more from jennifer granholm when she joins me live, next. great show. here you go. now he's added a new routine. making depositing a check seem so effortless. easy to use chase technology, for whatever you're trying to master. isaac, are you ready? yeah. chase. so you can. you stay up. you listen. you laugh. you worry. you do whatever it takes to take care of your family. and when it's time to plan for your family's future, we're here for you. we're legalzoom, and for over 10 years we've helped families just like yours with wills and living trusts. so when you're ready, start with us. doing the right thing has never been 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(vo) try new beneful healthy weight with chicken. now with real chicken as the number one ingredient, healthful. flavorful. beneful. >> do you think donald trump will change on that. >> look at this week when he talked about. he is bringing the case of communities of color to michigan. >> the donald trump campaign manager includes a kindler and gentler version of the state. and jennifer granholm, thank you governor for being here. >> thank you so much. >> so you just heard kelly anne conway is saying she doesn't believe in hurling personal insults and critical of the comments that were indeed personal insults but when she said he doesn't hurl personal insults, what do you make of th that? >> she is trying to put the best face on a terrible situation which is that she is coming into a campaign with a man only been hurling personal insults. tell that to john mccain, that he wasn't personally insulted, tell it to megyn kelly or juj curiel or mexicans he who has called rapists. they posted a piece on huffington post where i cited 37 personal insults he's hurled. and they are bringing on a new team and they are hoping to burnish and salt down this person disastrous for uniting people but all people have to do is look at the history and it is recent and not just long in the past. >> well one of the things that donald trump is doing is making this pitch to african-american voters, which i think a lot of us who sort of pay attention to these kind of politics understand to be a pitch to white suburban voters to make him more acceptable by saying that he wants to have african-american votes but he is saying it over and over again, including in your home state of michigan. there is a valid point to be made about the democratic party presuming that the voters of color will always be there and therefore taking them for granted when it comes to policy? >> there is no presumption. it is true that the african-american community has been part of the democratic party base but you have to earn every single vote and this is why the policies that you put out have to address the hurts of any given community. hillary clinton has specific policies that will help to repair and to bring in jobs. in michigan, when he comes to michigan, he comes to michigan and he said, that the auto industry, the manufacturing industry is all gone, et cetera. he's got to remember that our president saved the auto industry and as a direct result of that, michigan people feel it and especially the african-american community who are hugely employed in the auto industry. auto employment in michigan has doubled because of the policies of this particular president and donald trump and the republican party would have allowed that to go completely under. it matters that there are jobs policies inside of the democratic platform and inside of hillary clinton's platform that will bring jobs to african-american and communities all across the state and the country. but particularly in communities that are challenged and seen jobs leave. what has donald trump said he would do to create jobs in the cities? what has he said? there is nothing on his website other than his talk about trade. that's it. and building a wall. that doesn't help the cities. what does he got specifically. i think african-americans and people across the country are smart. they know when they're being conned and they can't allow a week's worth of softer talk to over-turn what has been a full campaign and frankly a lifetime full of in sults. >> and let's talk about specifics in addition to making a pitch for michigan on the donald trump came is looking at states that have been hit hard by manufacturing, not just michigan but ohio. and hillary clinton has a significant lead, kind of surprisingly, 46 to 40 in ohio. what do you make of that? because that is a state heavily on the targeted list for the trump campaign. >> it is. and in ohio and michigan are very similar with that strong manufacturing base. and the question is, he's talked about trade and it is an important issue and she has as well. but people in michigan and in ohio understand that the products that they make have to be able to be sent to other places and not just in the united states. they want products marked and stamped made in america and being sent elsewhere. it is -- it is true that we have to enforce these trade agreements and that we've got to make sure that our trading partners are not giving advantages. >> right. >> and -- >> and we're out of town. a quick yes or no question. on hillary clinton, on her transition team, will she stop tpp and refuse to sign it. >> she will not sign it. >> we made the news today. former governor jennifer granholm of michigan, thank you very much. >> you bet. >> and up next, donald trump's take on the southern strategy. don't go away. much more "am joy" after the break. he decided to save money by switching his motorcycle insurance to geico. there's no shame in saving money. ride on, ride proud. geico motorcycle, great rates for great rides. ...cleasee ya!ake off. when you're living with diabetes. steady is exciting. oh this is living baby! only glucerna has carbsteady, to help minimize blood sugar spikes. and try new glucerna hunger smart to help you feel full. but i keep it growing by making every dollar count. that's why i have the spark cash card from capital one. with it, i earn unlimited 2% cash back on all of my purchasing. and that unlimited 2% cash back from spark means thousands of dollars each year going back into my business... which adds fuel to my bottom line. what's in your wallet? ♪ gaviscon is a proven heartburn remedy that gives you fast-acting, long-lasting relief. it immediately neutralizes acid and only gaviscon helps keep acid down for hours. for fast-acting, long-lasting relief, try doctor-recommended gaviscon. enepeople want power.hallenge. and power plants account for more than a third of energy-related carbon emissions. the challenge is to capture the emissions before they're released into the atmosphere. exxonmobil is a leader in carbon capture. our team is working to make this technology better, more affordable so it can reduce emissions around the world. that's what we're working on right now. ♪ energy lives here. ♪ ♪ law and order must be restored. we need law and order. without it, we have nothing. >> welcome back to "am joy." in a week when the trump campaign would like the media narrative to be new direction and reinvention and pivot, there is no sign of change in the very old ideology that has driven his campaign and in fact, his promises to restore law and order sound a lot like another republican you might remember, during his run for president. >> it is time for an honest look at the problem of order in the united states. my pledge to you, we shall have order in the united states. >> and that was the campaign ad for richard nixon whose 1968 strategy marked the start of the southern strategy. it would last five decades. strategy was famously articulated by one of the architec architects, lee atwater, who said this. >> in 1968, you can't say the [ bleep ] that hurts you, backfires, so you say stuff like that, forced, busing, states rights and all of those things and you're talking about are totally economic things and by products of them is blacks get hurt worse than whites. >> and after that appeal for law and order and they responded to that dog whistle by elected nixon but locking down the south for republicans and presidential elections to this very day. it is an approach that is ready for a full national rollout according to the founder of one of the oldest websites v air.com and he told the post what the gop needs to do is southernize the white vote and have everybody in the country voting the way the southern whites vote. and this week in the atlantic jones said he hears trump using that dog whistle to play a remix of the same old song. he writes he's characterized illegal migrants rather than black americans as a threat to white women's safety and exploited islam growing power against declining white christian influence at home and in a demonstration an how successful the old strategy is and he's discarded that in favor of the bull horn. joining me is robert p. jones and author of the great new book the end of white christian america. and nbc news senior political reporter perry bacon jr. and steve cortes and with me here on set is strategist karine john pierre. and talk about how the southern strategy of old directed against african-american and using them as the wedge with which to attract white democrats, how has that shifted to now being focused on muslims and hispanics? >> well in the atlantic piece you mentioned, this is a remix of the southern strategy and maybe 2.0 and it is a replacement of african-american concerns with migrants and a replacement of the red communist scare about the terrorism and muslims in the country and there is some demographic shift in the country that parallels from the shifts in the '60s. we've experienced this great cultural upheaval in 2008 and the present, from being a majority white christian nation, 54% in 2008 when barack obama was running for president, to today being a minority white christian nation. only 45% of the countries today. and that massive cultural shift has really produced deep anxiety and fears and this kind of pull-back to the kind of former time when particularly white christians held power in the country. and that is why even today this appeal to white christian nationalism in support not just a white nationalism, but a white christian nationalism where conservative protestant values held sway in the country and that is the stage on to which donald trump walked in this election cycle. >> and i'll stay with you quickly. it is sounding like it is not economic society. because when people are reacting this way becauser economically anxious. it sounds like you are saying that is not what it is. >> well there is certainly that context as well. and i don't want to underestimate that. half of white evangelicals are white working class and hit hard. but i don't think you get the kind of reaction without the cultural piece as well and i think that is the important thing to realize. it is a really massive change, to realize that we have moved from being a majority white christian nation to a minority white christian nation and even if people don't understand the statistics, i don't know the exact numbers, it is things that conservative white christians are feeling in their bones and thway they see their country changing from everything from kind of the rise in migrants from mexico and latin america and the legalization of gay marriage and all led to seeing a world that they are power slipping in this cultural world and feeling fairly anxious. and when donald trump said let's make america great again or we're going to have law and order on the day that i'm inaugurated, that is an appeal back to order -- order for this world means back to a world that i really recognize. >> and steve, where do these minority groups that donald trump claims he is trying to reach out to this week fit into that world view? >> well, joy, let me just say, you and i don't say eye to eye on a whole lot and you will agree with me when i say that i think the southern strategy was reprehensible and wrong and cost us electorally. so it was dumb politics. but trying to ascribe it to the days gone by to the trump present is completely misconstrued. when he talked about law and order, for instance, no one suffers more presently from the lack of law and order than minorities do. i'm from chicago. the west side of chicago has become practically a war zone. those aren't white lawyers dying there, they are young black men primarily so i think his outreach is genuine and i don't think he is playing identity politics and saying there is a better way forward and i want to earn your vote, people of color. >> and you just mentioned chicago and i want to play him talking about chicago and then we'll come back and chat on the other side. >> in our nation's capitals, killings have risen by 50%. they are up nearly 60% in nearby baltimore. in the president's home town of chicago, more than 2000 people have been the victim of shootings this year alone. and almost 4,000 have been killed in the chicago area since he took office. >> now, those kinds of statements, that was his convention speech, steve, but he makes those kind of statements typically in front of all white audiences. meanwhile on his twitter page he has a habit of re-tweeting white nationalists like this, with crime stats claiming that blacks killed by whites is 2% and whites killed by blacks is 81% of whites who were killed are killed by african-americans. he has re-tweeted those several times and breitbart.com, which is the outfit that it was run by steve bannon who is now running the trump campaign, it has an entire section called black crime. the alt-right is not out there trying to defend african-american old ladies who were in neighborhoods with crime they are out there demonizing african-americans as criminals. so i don't see how you could say, steve, this is not directed at african-americans, at demonizing them. >> look. is there a segment of his support that is racist. >> he re tweeted that. >> just as there is a segment on democratic side. >> which segment is that? which segment? can you describe an example of that. >> there are clearly some black nationalists. >> black nationalists. >> you are saying black people are racist. do you know of a democrat or a liberal who re-tweeted -- the re-tweet from a white nationalist twitter user. >> i haven't seen that tweet. >> but he did. that is his face at the top of the tweet. >> when you said that, he is speaking primarily to white audiences. yes. i will concede that. right now he has not earned the support of many people of color but i believe he is going to because he is speaking directly to their concerns. they have been very loyal democratic voters but not been rewarded with the votes with policy to allow them to succeed and participate in the american dream and attend schools that are quality and allow their children a better way of life. >> are you saying that you don't believe that african-americans are attending college or owning homes? are you essentially implying, as donald trump has, that all african-americans are impoverished and crime-ridden? >> of course not all. but far too many. >> let me get a couple of other folks in here, karine. you just heard steve's presentation, your thoughts. >> let's be clear. donald trump is running a racist campaign and his character assassination of the black community is just in front of a whole white and all white audience is just infuriating and insulting and dog whistle politics does not work and it should not be done and it is a dangerous way to run a campaign and if donald trump thinks that he will win this election with an all white audience of voters, he is going to lose and have the same reaction that voters gave to mitt romney back in 2012. >> and i want to get robbie and perry bacon jr. in here. and let's play the ad. because the message that he is trying to deliver, the kelly anne conway crafted message is at odds with the rest of the presentation, not just the tweets but ads like this one. take a listen. >> in hillary clinton's america, the system stays rigged against americans and refugees flood in and illegal migrants get to stay and collect social security benefits and skipping the line. our border open and it is more of the same but worse. >> and perry, just as somebody who has covered presidential campaigns, how do you square the dual messaging, cortez saying that he is saying things because he wants to help communities of color but ads like that are the brown scare. >> his campaign this week, robert said he is running the southern strategy and this week particularly, mitt romney in 2012 had a few days where he said african-americans are suffering and democrats, vote for me. in 2012 at some point, mitt romney realized that his immigration rhetoric was too sharp and he kind of moved away from that in the general election, too. so i look at this and i see trump trying for the first time to try to appeal to blacks or to whites in reality and in this meeting, trying to soften his immigration rhetoric. kelly anne was on tv today and she was asked about the deportation plan and she said, we're reconsidering that and thinking about it. what i see is trump is right now getting about 80% of republicans. so he is behind where mitt romney was, who got 90% of the republicans. so i see this week as being trying to run more as a traditional candidate the way republicans have run in the past, using the law and order and the kind of makers and takers rhetoric to try to get to where he's back to 90% of republicans. he's trying to talk to latinos and blacks as a way to appeal to more moderate republicans who are turned off by the overt racism appearance and vote for someone who is more -- more subtle about that at least. >> and you are our dem og rarer, and does that turn off the white voter who is primely concerned -- primarily concerned about change and does this counter intuitive messages that sound like they are appeals to people of color, does that turn that voter off? >> i don't think so. if you listen to the appeals, they are echoing what many of the voters think. they think of african-american communities as being runned down, ridden with crime and those are exactly the problems in america, that these voters see and that donald trump is appealing to when he said let's make america great again. i think it fits into the message there and the numbers are speaking for themselves in july we look at african-americans support for donald trump, polls are showing nationally 2%. 4% and in some battlegrounds polls, ohio and pennsylvania, he was getting 0% support among african-americans. he has his work cut out for him here. and i would say the trump law and order speech in the convention was not a mistake and one thing behind that is that paul manafort who was in charge in trying to bring polish and order to the campaign that had been in disorder before the convention was part of the republicans southern strategy back to the '80s, was a key architect in reagan's appearance in philadelphia and mississippi where he gave a state rights speech kicking off his campaign in the south, running this states rights and law and order kind of emphasis in the '80s as well that was not misunderstood at all by southern voters in the '80s. >> interesting information. that is why we love having you on. robbie jones, and thank you. and perry and karine are sticking around. up next, donald trump and the fringe all-right movement. stay with us. i have asthma... ...one of many pieces in my life. so when my asthma symptoms kept coming back on my long-term control medicine. i talked to my doctor and found a missing piece in my asthma treatment with breo. once-daily breo prevents asthma symptoms. breo is for adults with asthma not well controlled on a long-term asthma control medicine, like an inhaled corticosteroid. breo won't replace a rescue inhaler for sudden breathing problems. breo opens up airways to help improve breathing for a full 24 hours. breo contains a type of medicine that increases the risk of death from asthma problems and may increase the risk of hospitalization in children and adolescents. breo is not for people whose asthma is well controlled on a long-term asthma control medicine, like an inhaled corticosteroid. once your asthma is well controlled, your doctor will decide if you can stop breo and prescribe a different asthma control medicine, like an inhaled corticosteroid. do not take breo more than prescribed. see your doctor if your asthma does not improve or gets worse. ask your doctor if 24-hour breo could be a missing piece for you. see if you're eligible for 12 months free at mybreo.com. i'm not a discover customer but i'm calling about that credit scorecard. 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does that mean he can't be gay and a white nationalist, because he can. >> but it is against the inherit -- >> you could be gay and racist. >> then it is a gay, nationalist, white southern movement. >> we have to stop and stab lirk what theality -- establish what the alt right is. and what exists to -- to identify them as white nationalists and they are nonwhite immigration and the website is explicit about not wanting to see noneuropean moving to the united states and that means people like us not coming into the country. and breitbart -- hold on. steve is running the campaign. here is a simpling. bill crystal, jew and there is no hiring and they just suck in interviews birth control makes women unattractive and crazy and when you set aside the white nationism, and this is who is running the trump campaign and does this make you uneasy. >> are there thousands of articles posted on breitbart that makes me uneasy, and they might make bannon uneasy. >> and he runs it. >> but if you listen to the radio show he gets people who call in and spouts racist views and he turns them down. he is not a racist or a nationalist, he is anti-establishment and he is not just anti-hillary but steve bannon have been tougher on people like jeb bush, on mitch mcconnell than on hillary. so i think he's being -- i'm not talking about the site as a whole. steve bannon is being mischaracterized. he took over the campaign unofficially a week ago and we've had a magnificent week and polls are high and we are leading and proving to be an effective manager and messager. >> i want to play you kurt bartella, a consultant to breitbart.com who knows steven bannon personally and worked with him and this is him talking about the man you just described as being mischaracterized, steven bannon, listen to this. >> let me be clear. this wasn't an isolated incident or something said in jest, i'm talking about an ongoing pattern of behavior and conduct and rhetoric that gave you a glimpse into the type of world view that he has. and it is incredibly disturbing and troubling that that is the type of person that donald trump, as president of the united states, would want to have advising him and being a right-hand men to make decisions and helping lead and manage people. >> and what he was talking about was the notion -- he wrote a piece in the daily beast that steve bannon in meetings made off comments about homosexuals and other minorities than i can recount. steve? >> frankly, i had a hard time believing that. i don't know kurt -- >> he worked with steven bannon. >> he could very well be lying. i don't know. i don't know the facts on that. what i know of steve bannon, as a public figure, is completely the opposite of that, in fact. so i have a hard time. >> so you have said he is lying and he is not here to refute that. >> i'm not here to call him a liar. i have a hard time believing him. >> and i'm going to do one more thing before i get the rest of the panel in, i'm going to play bannon, this is not him talking about race but about an issue of what to do with people in poverty. take a listen. >> we do not have to demonize the poor for the food stamps bill. it is so bill because corporate america is feeding off the food stamps bill. that is the way -- but i've been not in agreement at all that we need to be the party of empathy and by that i mean false empathy, because that is just the slow walk to stateism. there is a certain point in time you have to explain that these programs have not worked and they've been enslaving people. >> let me bring you in on this perry bacon jr., because people who are familiar with breitbart back to the shirley sherrod incident to the acorn stuff and before he got involved in it, and breitbart was there to attack certain people but gotten more extreme in terms of issues of race and you heard even on issue of poverty, that many republicans don't want to align with, not wanting to be party of empathy, what do you make of this. >> this is a fascinating week. it is rare for a media executive to become the head of a campaign but breitbart, whether you disagree or whatever you think of the content has grown hugely the last four years and become influential in the republican party politics and i think you are seeing donald trump doing something interesting and usually you see someone who wants to appear to the base or the swing voters and it appears they are trying to do both at the same time. bannon an breitbart, if you are trying to grow the white christian and white male -- angry white male voters, which is what trump is trying to do, then bannon is a great person to appeal to that. breitbart has grown that audience. that is a smart way to go as a political manner for bannon and then in kelly anne conway, her role is to help republicans appeal to white suburban women particularly. so i think you are seeing trump try to appeal to the base and the swing voters at the same time with the two hires. it is very hard to do that because the messages contradict each other and that is what they are trying to do politically. >> and as a strategy. can you appeal to two different groups, to white women and angry white, male voters at the same time. >> this is 2016, not 1964. so here are the facts. breitbart is a dumpster fire for mass otheny and bigotry and the person who ran that organization a week now is now the ceo of a presidential campaign. those are the fakes. and birds of a feather flock together. and you -- i'm going to put on my strategist hat for a second. he is speaking to an electorate that is shrinking. and we see that in the last four years and in the last couple of decades and that is what is happening. and is he just -- he just can't continue, right, to try and play both sides of the game. you can't do that. you can't insult and dehumanize whole groups of people and say to suburban moms, but take a look at me, i'm fine, i don't lack the temperament and i have the knowledge and i'll be the president. >> and steve, this is your -- the campaign that you are associated with. in the end, do you think that this strategy, this sort of duel track of having the kelly anne conway and the breitbart strategy living in the same host, do you believe that at the end of the day donald trump will win a majority, let's say of the votes of white women? >> i do. or i hope so, any way. republicans in general haven't done well with women. can we win the white woman vote, i suspect we can. and because the strategy makes sense because partisan voters don't realize, i don't believe it is democrat against republican and it is washington against america and america is sick of cronyism and slow growth and a rigged system that both republicans and democrats have been participating in for their own benefits to the detriment of the american people who don't feel safe and welcoalthy. and i think he can unite both groups under that banner. >> we shall see and i don't know if having breitbart around to do it is the right way to do it. and thank you. you have been great. thank you. and up next, the hillary clinton health conspiracy and a tribute to legendary tv host john mclaughlin. more "am joy" next. guests connected at work, and at play. or the it platform that powers millions of ecards every day for one of the largest greeting card companies. businesses count on communication, and communication counts on centurylink. ♪ don't just eat. ♪ mangia! bertolli. get between you and life's dobeautiful moments.llergens by choosing flonase, you're choosing more complete allergy relief and all the enjoyment that comes along with it. when we breathe in allergens, our bodies react by overproducing 6 key inflammatory substances. most allergy pills only control 1. flonase controls 6. and six is greater than one. with flonase, more complete relief means enjoyment of every beautiful moment. flonase, six is greater than one, changes everything. ♪ 80% try to eat healthy, yet up to 90% fall short in getting key nutrients from food alone. let's do more. add one a day men's gummies. complete with key nutrients plus b vitamins to help convert food into fuel. one a day. ♪ ♪ isaac hou has mastered gravity defying moves to amaze his audience. great show. here you go. now he's added a new routine. making depositing a check seem so effortless. easy to use chase technology, for whatever you're trying to master. isaac, are you ready? yeah. chase. so you can. or building the best houses in town. or becoming the next highly-unlikely dotcom superstar. and us, we'll be right there with you, helping with the questions you need answered to get your brand new business started. we're legalzoom and we've already partnered with over a million new business owners to do just that. check us out today to see how you can become one of them. legalzoom. legal help is here. the july fundraising numbers are in. and as you may have guessed, hillary clinton with more than $50 million raised and $38 million spent, vastly outdid trvp donald trump who raised $17 million and spent $18 million. trump just now started spending money on tv ads so where did all of the money go in july? nearly half of his $18 million, $8 million of it went to one firm, the san antonio based web company jiles par scal which trump has used since 2011. the next businessest item is payroll, including $15,000 for adviser and rhetorical flame thrower stone. and he paid cory lewandowski $20,000.02 weeks after he was quote, unquote fired and he still speaks of lewandowski and gets his advice daily and they played three quarters of a million dollars to various businesses owned by donald trump. and don't forget the 356.01 to one meredith macgyver, the long time trump staffer who wrote ivanka trump's speech. and up next, the health conspiracy. stay tuned. mmm peanuts, pecans, cashews. i'll have another helping of science, please! so whether it's energy or heart health you're after, start optimizing your nutrition with my specially mixed nutrition. planters. nutrition starts with nut. when heartburn comes creeping up on you. fight back with relief so smooth and fast. tums smoothies starts dissolving the instant it touches your tongue. and neutralizes stomach acid at the source. tum-tum-tum-tum-tums smoothies, only from tums. i am proud of you, my man. making simple, smart cash back choices... with quicksilver from capital one. you're earning unlimited 1.5% cash back on every purchase, everywhere. like on that new laptop. quicksilver keeps things simple, gary. and smart, like you! and i like that. i guess i am pretty smart. don't let that go to your head, gary. what's in your wallet? failing to point out several signs of illness by her. all you have to do is go online. >> her campaign -- people are defending her saying there is nothing factual to the claims about her health and that -- >> go online -- >> and that is speculation. >> go online and put downhillk illness and take a look at the video for yourself. >> welcome to "am joy." right wing conspiracy theorists like rudy giuliani have been speculating that hillary clinton has life-threatening illness and they produced records to back them up but sean hannity refuses to believe. >> it is a violent repetitive jerking of the head. it is uncontrollable. and the reporter pulled back and she got scared and she keeps doing it. what is that? >> that video -- is that a saysure. >> well, maybe. >> it certainly could be -- >> watch her right here. let's just watch it closely, here. watch the report back right there, the -- and it goes on and on and on. >> and joining me now is news week's kurt eichenwald. she apologized for those in epilepsy or burn in hell. >> this conspiracy theory based on hillary clinton sort of joking around in that video, i want to show that clip again with actually the sound to it. and then on the other side of that we'll have a chat. >> okay. >> it was a wonderful meaningful, endorsement in every way and i was very -- >> can you talk about vice presidential possibilities for senator warren. >> you have got to try the cold chop. >> and the reporters were trying to tell hem who the vice president pick would be and when you see that video and see sean hannity and others portray that as a saysure, what do you make -- a seizure, what do you make of it. >> i take it that they are a moral -- i have epilepsy and that is not a seizure and anext to make -- an attempt to make it seem like one is unfit for public office is the kind of thing you would expect to here about in the late 19th century. these people owe an enormous apology. now i wrote -- the piece i wrote for news week, as you know, had a lot of lines in it that you can't say on national television. because my editors recognized that i had a right to be incredibly angry. and i was. and since i wrote that, i've been hearing from lots of people with epilepsy, thanking me, because they were infuriated that this condition that -- that drop-outs like sean hannity were misrepresenting what this condition was, for the purpose of trying to make a political point. and a ridiculous political point. >> but it is not just sean hannity. it is actually -- you could take this closer inside of the campaign. let's listen to katrina pearson who is the spokesperson for the trump campaign attempting to diagnose hillary clinton with disfascia. >> she said she doesn't have the strength or the stamina for a very long time. that part is nothing new. what is new are the other reports of the observations of hillary clinton's behavior and mannerisms, specifically with what you just showed in the previous clips as well as his disfascia. >> attempting to make a diagnosis. aphasias, is a impair of language and affecting the production or comprehension of speech and the ability to read or write, that is due to a brain injury, due to a stroke. and the idea of naming a condition they think she has, what do you make of that. >> i think it is a sign of desperation and a sign of what kind of despicable people we're dealing with here. they may think it is smart politics to play into the conspiracy theory. look at how angry i am and the phone calls i'm getting from people who have these conditions are. you have got 20 million people in this country who have epilepsy, well, any of them who have had -- what is the kind -- a seizure of any magnitude is furious. because it is being misrepresented. it is putting people who do have these problems in danger. it is also communicating that people who have these problems are somehow unfit. well, way to go, guys. there are real people whose votes you are losing and the conspiracy theorists will vote for you any way. >> and a candidate already caught on camera making fun of a reporter with a disability, it seems like a strange way to go. and lastly, kurt, it does seem there is not a bit of respect for what the medical profession even does. you talked about the letter written for donald trump which doesn't take seriously the idea of his own health, saying his test results were astonishingly excellent. only positive results. this kind of thing. what did you make of that letter? >> the letter was the nonsensical thing i've ever seen. any doctor i've shown it to laughs. just to say, everything was a positive result, well that means he has every disease he was tested for. that is not a medical term. if you are testing for cancer, and you test positive for cancer, dwryou're going into ch therapy. the letter was not anytng it didn't tell you anything about donald trump. if they want to play the role of conspiracy theory, let's do reality. donald trump has a major history in his family of alzheimer's. there is a test that can be done to determine if there is a protein you have that demonstrates or indicates a proclivity to that condition. well why don't we have that. and you know, the fact of the matter is, symptoms of alzheimer's include an inability to stay on track. meandering off into different topics. being erratic. well we're hearing all of those words about donald trump. we should get real medical records from donald trump before they start slamming the real medical records that have been released from hillary clinton. >> i think we'll put those in line with the tax returns. we'll get all of that in due course. kurt eichenwald, thanks very much. >> thanks for having me. and at the top of the hour, alex witt looks at trump's pivot to minority votes and what is behind it and will it help it and first the pioneer shows like this one passed away this week and will honor the legacy of john mclaughlin, next. i'm hall of famer jerry west and my life is basketball. but that doesn't stop my afib from leaving me at a higher risk of stroke. that'd be devastating. i took warfarin for over 15 years until i learned more about once-daily xarelto... a latest generation blood thinner. then i made the switch. xarelto® significantly lowers the risk of stroke in people with afib not caused by a heart valve problem. it has similar effectiveness to warfarin. warfarin interferes with vitamin k and at least six blood clotting factors. xarelto® is selective targeting one critical factor of your body's natural clotting function. for people with afib currently well managed on warfarin, there is limited information on how xarelto and warfarin compare in reducing the risk of stroke. like all blood thinners, don't stop taking xarelto without talking to your doctor, as this may increase your risk of a blood clot or stroke. while taking you may bruise more easily, and it may take longer for bleeding to stop. xarelto may increase your risk of bleeding if you take certain medicines. xarelto can cause serious, and in rare cases fatal bleeding. get help right away for unexpected bleeding, unusual bruising or tingling. if you have had spinal anesthesia while on xarelto watch for back pain or any nerve or muscle related signs or symptoms. do not take xarelto if you have an artificial heart valve or abnormal bleeding. tell your doctor before all planned medical or dental procedures. before starting xarelto tell your doctor about any conditions, such as kidney, liver or bleeding problems. to help protect yourself from a stroke, ask your doctor about xarelto. there's more to know. xarelto. will your business be ready when growth presents itself? american express open cards can help you take on a new job, or fill a big order or expand your office and take on whatever comes next. find out how american express cards and services can help prepare you for growth at open.com. to folks out there whose diabetic nerve pain... find out how american express shoots and burnses its way into your day, i hear you. to everyone with this pain that makes ordinary tasks extraordinarily painful, i hear you. make sure your doctor hears you too! i hear you because i was there when my dad suffered with diabetic nerve pain. if you have diabetes and burning, shooting pain in your feet or hands, don't suffer in silence! step on up and ask your doctor about diabetic nerve pain. tell 'em cedric sent you. sunday mornings will never quite be the same. john mclaughin was laid to rest yesterday after he died on tuesday at his washington home at the age of 89. all of us on sunday morning news talkers owe a debt of gratitude who mclaughin with his show cast the mold for the provocative round table format that is the inspiration for others that followed. every week since it debuted in 1982 he played ring master to a clash of the talking heads, controlling the debate as only he could. >> on a doomsday scale of zero to ten and zero meaning zero doom, ten meaning absolute metaphysical doom, a wipe out, annihilation, how much doom does hillary face in the november election? >> the group will air for the last time today. it is only the sec time in 34 years after illness caused him to miss last week's taping that his show will air without its host. and thousands of miles away. with the help of at&t, red bull racing can share critical information about every inch of the car from virtually anywhere. brakes are getting warm. confirmed, daniel you need to cool your brakes. understood, brake bias back 2 clicks. giving them the agility to have speed & precision. because no one knows & like at&t. i'm not a customer, but i'm calling about that credit scorecard. 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(avo) love. it's what makes a subaru, a subaru. get zero percent on select subaru models during the subaru a lot to love event, now through august thirty-first. mapping the oceans. where we explore. protecting biodiversity. everywhere we work. defeating malaria. improving energy efficiency. developing more clean burning natural gas. my job? my job at exxonmobil? turning algae into biofuels. reducing energy poverty in the developing world. making cars go further with less. fueling the global economy. and you thought we just made the gas. ♪ energy lives here. and now, a great new issue, will this platform be affected even one iota of the views of pat buchanan. pat buchanan? >> we're making significant inroads -- >> wrong! >> well, while i think pat ran a decent campaign -- >> wrong! >> "the mclaughlin group" inspired the highest form of praise from "saturday night live." today we continue to commemorate john mclaughlin's legacy with his most frequency guests, this is very exciting. daily beast political writer eleanor clift, chicago tribune syndicated columnist clarence page and tom rogan. john mclaughlin is something i grew up watching. my mom loved him. he was a great institution. i want to go around the table and let each of you tell us what he meant to you. we'll start with you, eleanor. >> well, he was father god. that was what he was called when he was a prep schoolteacher and when he summoned me to his office on k street in 1983 and he just peppered me with a series of questions. number one, what did i think of barney clark's heart transplant. he was a 61-year-old dentist who got the first artificial heart. it cost $350,000, he didn't live very long. it was a big debate at the time and what did i think about arms to taiwan. and i looked at him and i said "i'm a reporter. i don't have strong opinions." and i hadn't really thought deeply and morally about these issues and he barked back "you want to be on my show, you better get some strong opinions." and then i was sitting across from pat buchanan, the original culture warrior and bob novak who, joy, you'll remember was known as the prince of darkness and suddenly i had strong opinions. it wasn't a problem. so i told john i saw him the week before he died, i told him he made me who i am before i knew who he was. >> and that show made so many characters that those of us who loved the news but the opinion side of it, freddie the beatle barns people will never forget. was it difficult to go from columnist to character? >> well, you left out one of the great characters, eleanor you're sweatinor clift. but it was a tougher job for from me to go from reporter to columnist than columnist to mclaughlin group because i was already accustomed to giving many i opinion but that's why his show was so important. prior to that political talk shows tendsed to be either news makers or reporters who covered them. john said we don't need news makers and objective reporting, we need subjective opinion people who can sit around. someone mentioned john told them he envisioned something like a sidewalk cafe. we take it for granted in washington that if you're on the right you don't talk to people on the left and vice versa and john was never like that. that's what i admired about him. >> tom, other than "firing line" this was the show where somebody who was young and interested in politics could see people on the left and the right debating fiercely but, you know, the clarence's point walking away as friends and taking each other's views seriously. do you think that kind of discourse -- can it survive anymore in this fractured partisan environment we're in now? >> i think the tribute to joe mclaughlin is that the racings of the show towards the end were very strong and the testament of that is that people knew they were going to get different opinions but they knew the people on the set had a warmth towards each other, respect. and so that insulator if you will away from the partisanship was appealing to people. they knew they'd get passionate opinions and disagreement. but at the same time they knew they would get this sort of -- you know, a relatively short introduction to the issues, a good discussion, a bite size assessment of the week and one other thing people should pay heed to is that from my perspective as a young inexperienced journalist compared to all the other journalists, the great yuletity of my being on the show is that i was a columnist but i've had much more opportunities to broach into analysis reporting because people have seen me and reached out and said "i just had this experience do you want to write about it?" >> and we're recruiting you as we speak so you may get a call from us. i can't leave here without doing one fun sendup to the show in the way he ended the shows. i have to ask each of you fine and intelligent columnists, 0 to 10, 0 being bottomless nothingness and 10 being metaphysical certainty, how certain will you will donald trump be the next president of the united states. eleanor you're swellinor clift. >> how certain he will be or won't be? 8.927 he won't be. >> clarence? >> i agree with eleanor. that's unusual but, you know, donald trump has done a great job of showing he doesn't want to be president, he wants to be a tv star and a brand builder and i think that's what he's doing. >> tom rogan? >> i think 3 and the only chance he has at this point is if hillary clinton has a major corruption thing, the russians leak forthere's a terrible terrorist attack and he mobilizes fear from that. >> we shall see. thank you for being here. it's an honor to talk to you. eleanor clift, clarence page and tom rogan. before we end today's show i want to take one moment to show happy "a.m. joy" news. our family got big we are the addition of dexter danger adam, the son of our director murray and his wife eliza. and one of our fabulous segment producers khai ma tied the not with her beau in vegas. isn't that beautiful? my colleague alex witt is up next and she will cover what to expect from donald trump on immigration after he signaled a possible shift. thanks for watching. as john mclaughlin would say, "bye-bye." isaac hou has mastered gravity defying moves to amaze his audience. great show. here you go. now he's added a new routine. making depositing a check seem so effortless. easy to use chase technology, for whatever you're trying to master. isaac, are you ready? yeah. chase. so you can. if legalzoom has your back.s, over the last 10 years we've helped one million business owners get started. visit legalzoom today for the legal help you need to start and run your business. legalzoom. legal help is here. get between you and life's dobeautiful moments.llergens by choosing flonase, you're choosing more complete allergy relief and all the enjoyment that comes along with it. when we breathe in allergens, our bodies react by overproducing 6 key inflammatory substances. most allergy pills only control 1. flonase controls 6. and six is greater than one. with flonase, more complete relief means enjoyment of every beautiful moment. flonase, six is greater than one, changes everything. ♪ whether it's connecting one of or bringing wifi to 65,000 fans. campuses. businesses count on communication, and communication counts on centurylink. is around here the early bird gets the waffle. but for all the other birds who could use a few more minutes of sleep, we've got you covered. enjoy free breakfast on the run and free wi-fi. book at hampton.com for a guaranteed discount. now you can't spell nutriam i right?t nut, i mean whose to say it's pronounced nu-triton, anyway? my mixes contain delicious nuts, specially blended for your optimal nut-rition. that's right, i just changed a word in the english dictionary, forever. planters. nutrition starts with nut. . i'm alex witt in new york at msnbc headquarters. it's high noon at the east, 9:00 a.m. out west. new reaction on whether donald trump will follow through with a deportation force if elected. he signaled a possible shift in his immigration policy during a meeting with his hispanic advisory board yesterday. here's what his campaign manager kellyanne conway said earlier today. >> as weeks unfold, he will lay out the specifics of that plan that he would implement as president of the united states. >> will that plan include a deportation force, the kind that he just -- you just heard in that soundbite and that he talked about during the republican primaries? >> to be determined. >> on the democrat side, the clinton campaign is fighting back against a new batch of criticism over the clinton foundation. now that former president bill clinton says the

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