Is acting out of weakness right now. Not from strength. You dont attack legitimacy of an election and sue to undermine Voting Rights across the country and make it harder to vote and talk about invalidating tens of thousands, if not millions, of mailin ballots and refuse to commit to a peaceful transfer of power. You dont do all those things if you think you are winning. Right . What donald trump said yesterday was extremely disturbing and outrageous and actually disqualifying, but does this really sound like someone who is expecting a victory . Will you commit to making sure that there is a peaceful transferal of power after the election . We have to see what happens. You know that. Ive been complaining very strongly about the ballots, and the ballots are a disaster. Do you commit to making sure there is a peaceful transfer of power . We wont have get rid of the ballots and youll have a very well have a very peaceful there wont be a transfer frankly. There will be a continuation. The ballots are out of control. You dont promise to get rid of the ballots if you think the ballots are going to keep you in power because people are voting for you because they like you. No, you actually know that you are hated when you say that. Donald trump knows that things do not look good for him, that the American People are not with him. Right now the polling average shows him down more than seven points nationally. That 43 number, thats basically what his approval has been throughout his entire presidency. Just yesterday there were three Different National polls that showed trump down by ten points. No incumbent has lost by ten points since i think hoover. Joe biden in those polls also at least 50 support, which is key. Donald trump is the incumbent president amidst a pandemic that has killed more than 230,000 americans so far. Just another thousand today. He is overseeing an economy that has lost nearly five million jobs since he took office. And early voting has already begun. The latest nbc news wall street journal poll found that nearly 90 of voters have already made up their minds. They already know who they are voting for which makes sense because can you imagine looking at the Current Situation and thinking, ive got to see a little more . So there isnt a lot of opportunity for the president to make up ground. All that means that donald trump is looking for his second option. Trying to actually win, again, appealing to more people so as to win the election legitimately, it just is not the strategy, clearly, at this point. And as dangerous as it is, and it is indeed dangerous, were going to talk about that in a bit, the danger we see is, dont forget it, born of his political weakness, born of his unpopularity, not his political strength. I mean, this is someone who views himself as president of the 40 of the country that likes him. Hes the king of red america. He brags about his Approval Rating among the Republican Party, and he says it shouldnt count really the coronavirus deaths in blue states. You shouldnt count those against him because those are blue states. This is someone who surrounds himself at every opportunity with nothing but the most rabidly adoring members of his own base, people who are willing to risk a once in a century respiratory infection to watch him riff about low flow toilets. But if he for an instant sets foot into the rest of america to see the majority of americans that do not approve of him, this is what it looks like. This was the scene today when the president went to view the casket of Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader ginsburg, whose dying wish was that he not appoint her successor. [ boos ] [ crowd chants vote him out ] that man there, he is not strong. He is weak. Striking, isnt it, to see him confronted with just a tiny little assemblage of the people in the majority of the country that do not like him . Its been a while. I mean, the campaign tries to keep him in front of only the most adoring audiences in an effort to project the idea that, well, Everybody Loves donald trump. They take great pains to keep him from ever appearing before regular americans. When they do make that mistake and send him into nonmaga parts of america, this is what happens. Remember when he went to the Washington Nationals game last year and got audibly booed by the fans . That was a disaster. So then they had to make up for it. They figured what about a ufc fight at Madison Square garden . Ufc folks, those are his people. But there were a lot of boos there too. Not quite as bad but it was close. Then they figured good lord, lets try an lsu versus alabama Football Game in tuscaloosa. And that worked out. Lots of applause. Took three tries, and the president found his safe space. Tuscaloosa, alabama. This is a politically weak president who wants desperately for you to believe hes strong. That political weakness is the thing that prodemocracy forces in america have on their side. But at the same time, that weakness is also what is driving him and his party into ever more dangerous actions which we have to take seriously and confront. He is dangerous as hell, particularly because hes being enabled by the Republican Party, and we are in a very dangerous moment. If he manages to stay in office, if he manages to plow over our democracy and throw out our votes, then all bets are off. Two days after the 2016 election masha gessen wrote this piece titled autocracy rules for survival. Listing out six rules to understand how to live under on aut autocrat. Nearly four years later, those rules seem too real. Believe the autocrat. He means what he says. Im joined by masha gessen, staff writer for the new yorker, author of the new book surviving autocracy. First of all, masha, this is not surprising that he said this. He has essentially been laying the groundwork for this saying any election he loses is by definition not legitimate and tainted. But it was still striking to hear him say that yesterday. You know, he actually said that before the 2016 election as well. Yeah. Any election that he wins to him is also illegitimate. He has always run against the system. He has always run on the platform of delegitimizing elections as such. So i dont know that i would stress so much that he is afraid of losing and he is running on weakness. I think there has been a sort of simultaneous underlying understanding of a lack of legitimacy of this presidency that has been an undercurrent the entire time but also delegitimizing the entire system as he found it, right . And the whole sort of drain the swamp rhetoric has always referred to destroying government as it was constituted. How do you think about this sort of to me there is these sort of twin imperatives here. Right . One is to be cleareyed about the danger, to take him seriously, to take the efforts to do profoundly Dangerous Things to american democracy seriously, at the same time not imbuing him with more power than he has. Theres a kind of projection of strong manness here. The republicans saying were going to figure out how to take your vote away and send our own slate of electors. Which i think is meant into timid at a certain level. How do you interpret these competing imperatives at this moment . Well, my rule is always to try to zoom out and look at the larger picture, and the larger picture is that were at a stage in the autocratic attempt where we probably face the last chance to try to stop this autocratic attempt before i use this framework invented by a hungarian sociologist who says theres an autocratic attempt, autocratic breakthrough and autocratic consolidation. So i think were still in the attempt stage. The breakthrough will happen if he wins this election or even in spite of losing the election succeeds in maintaining power. And so we really have to use this chance to get rid of donald trump. Elections are not the perfect instrument. There is rampant voter suppression. There is rampant the opportunity to vote has never been equally distributed and it is suboptimal at the moment. And, yet, this is currently our best instrument for stopping the autocratic attempt. And that means he has to lose by an absolutely overwhelming margin. That is really useful. The attempt, the breakthrough and the consolidation is extremely useful framework to think about. And its interesting you reference you reference hungary because i think of i think of viktor orban who many people have compared him and orban is running this sort of what he calls an illiberal democracy in europe. Orban and the law and Justice Party i think its called in poland which is sort of aligned, the kind of hard right party, orban has been fairly popular. It does strike me we would be in much worse shape if donald trump were like legitimately polling at 60 , that in rebuffing the attempt, if we think about this as the autocratache tempt, rebuffing the attempt is easier and youre in a stronger position when the person making the attempt is not actually popular. I dont think that we can accurately measure the popularity of an autocrat, orban or Vladimir Putin or at this point erdogan simply because when theres a scorched earth policy of governing, when they completely dominate the information stream, or almost completely dominate information share, theres no way to see an alternative. Theres no way to gauge popularity in the absence of any kind of imagination for what would happen if it werent viktor orban, right . We are not there yet. And at this point, you know, especially in the week after the death of judge ginsburg, justice ginsburg, i think its super important to pull back and look at all the things that we still have. We still have the opportunity for donald trump to not be popular because there are other options. Right. Because we have media. We have actually still a robust public sphere that he has not come to fully dominate. Because it is actually possible for him to be unpopular. That is a great point. Right. Thats exactly what i was trying to say. Like because were still in the attempt phase, because we are not in the breakthrough or consolidation phase, because the consolidation has not happened, because im speaking to you right now in front of millions of people, because were on this side of it we can beat it back. And i you know, i have really started thinking about the election and the prodemocracy forces conceptualization. Like that is, quite frankly, barack obama said this and alexandria ocasiocortez said this and Bernie Sanders today, people on the right have said this, bill kristol believes this, that thats what were facing right here. Yes. I seized up inside when i saw the figures you were using at the top of the broadcast showing how donald trump is trailing joe biden because of course he is trailing him nationally, but the Electoral College isnt looking so great. And, you know, and we have this hugely imperfect system that we have to try to use to stall this autocratic attempt and then try to rebuild the system in a way that is actually much more democratic, right . And we have to have total mobilization for democracy, not to protect a democracy that is under threat, but to even have a chance of building a democracy. Yes. Yes. And that is a sort of guiding moment, particularly amidst this catastrophe that we all continue to work our way through that presses down on each of us each and every day. The other thing that i wanted to sort of end on, one of the rules which i remembered since my first interview with you, i think, after that Election Night was just be outraged. I have to say im not an angry person, but have felt a kind of whistling tea kettle sense of rage recently partly born of mourning honestly because of the devastation, of the death around us and the illness and the suffering and the misery that didnt have to happen. But also because i love my country deeply and i feel like im watching someone try to take it away. Someone is trying to take it away. Someone is actively facilitating the deaths of more than a thousand people a day. It is very, very hard to maintain a level of rage to you know, and it is objectively hard because were not talking about normalization. Were talking about normality. This has been normal for this response to the coronavirus has been normal for seven months. This way of shameless abuse of power has been normal for nearly four years. This is our everyday reality. And so the only thing i would say is that, you know, as difficult as outrage is to maintain, it is a much more constructive emotional state than anxiety. Thats right. It is what makes us controllable. And it is a natural response to whats happening. But it makes us you know, it makes us slow to act and unable to act and outrage will drive us to action. That is really well said. Masha gessen, as always so wonderful to talk to you. Thank you so much for talking to us tonight. Thank you for having me. Tonight republicans are telegraphing they hope the election will be decided by the courts and not so much by the voters. Elizabeth warren warns us that democracy as we know it is on the line. She joins me next. She joins me. Republicans trying to distance themselves from the president implicitly threatening violence to stay in office. As he did when he refused to commit to a peaceful transfer of power. But the way the republicans are trying to distance themselves from that odious comment is xeemly unnerving in itself. The theme from republicans is less, well, the people will decide who our next president is after we count every vote and the winner of the Electoral College will be the next president , and it seems a lot more we will abide by the decision of the courts. But the courts are like a real emergency backstop here. The courts should not be the main plan. Lindsey graham, the chair of the senate committee, said, people wonder about the peaceful transfer of power. I can assure you it may be peaceful. We may have litigation about who won the election but the court will decide and if republicans lose well accept that result. This is particularly unnerving after the death of Justice Ruth Bader ginsburg when the president and republicans are all saying we need to ram through a Supreme Court justice so that that person can rule presumably in our favor if there is an election lawsuit. An equally divided court 44 cant decide anything. That could make this president ial election drag on weeks and months and well into next year. That is an intolerable situation for the country. We need a full court on election day given the very high likelihood that were going to see litigation that goes to the court. We need a Supreme Court that can give a definitive answer for the country. With all of the talk about universal unsolicited mailin balloting where we see states around the country that are now extending the deadline, there is a possibility that election issues may come before the Supreme Court in the days following the election and all the more reason why we should have nine justices on the Supreme Court to be able to resolve any issues that may arise then. Here with me now one of those senators who will vote on the Supreme Court confirmation, senator Elizabeth Warren, a democrat of massachusetts. Great to have you, senator. First let me just get your response to this line, this sort of i find it a strange line from some of your republican colleagues about, well, you know, well listen to the courts and the courts will decide and we also need to get this justice on the court because the courts going to decide the election as if thats kind of a fait accompli. What do you think when you hear that . So, you know, lets start with donald trump. When donald trump says that he is not necessarily going to accept the will of the voters, hes flirting with treason. Hes saying peaceful transition of power doesnt matter to him. All that matters to him, once again, is donald trump and whatever donald trump wants. And for republicans, once again, to step up, these republican senators to enable him in that, to support him in that and to start to talk about the november 3rd election as if this isnt about voters getting their choice but it is about Supreme Court justices getting their choice means that they are a party to it. And that means to me that come november 3rd we need to hold them all accountable. And when i say hold them all accountable, i mean donald trump. I mean those republican senators. I mean those republicans up and down the ballot. And we need to not just beat them by a little bit. The idea that they can go litigate when its close. I mean beat them big. Thats what weve got to do. You know, there is after the death of Justice Ruth Bader ginsburg, there is a sort of open question about, okay, well, what now . And in relatively short order it looked like Mitch Mcconnell assembled the votes he needed to move forward. Lindsey graham assured us that sight unseen the nominee has the votes. And then the question youre shaking your head. By the way, he has put new meaning to the words advice and consent the constitution of the United States requires. Right . Lindsey graham has simply said donald trump has my proxy on this, the senate doesnt need to look it, if the president s good Lindsey Graham is good. There is a man with a spine, a spine kept in a box somewhere else because he certainly doesnt have it to exercise for himself. Lets talk about spine and about fighting here. I mean, there is some sense i get that there is no magic button, and i get that they probably have the votes. But there is some sense of, like, what do you do, right, as a Senate Minority . Do you not agree to unanimous consent . Do you insist on quorum calls . Do you not vote for judges . But my understanding is in the last 24, 48 hours all that stuff has happened. Right . I mean, the senate is functioning normally. I think there was a confirmation vote on a district judge today 932. Im not sure how you voted. But there is kind of normal business happening. Like explain to me why that is happening. Look, we need to use every tool, and there are a lot of tools that democrats have to try and fight this. Weve got to be strategic about how we use them. But it cant be business as usual in the senate. We need to think seriously about everything we can do to try to slow this down and to show how illegitimate this whole process is. Look, the continuing resolution could have been voted on yesterday. But we didnt. We said nope, were going to run it for the full length of time that it takes. And yeah, itll be voted on, but its going to be next wednesday. Were going to pull this out. Thats why im still here in washington. Were going to use every tool weve got. But Grassroots Energy is crucial in this kind of fight as well. The more energy injected into this, the more nervous the republicans are going to get. Look, remember back in 2017 the republicans thought they had the votes to repeal the health care for millions of americans, and they didnt. Right. They blinked. And its in large part because people stood up and said no. Well, to me thats what this is. This is another fight over the vote to repeal health care for millions of americans thats going to be in front of the Supreme Court in november. So we need to fight just as hard as we did back then because now the stakes are even higher. So i want to ask about the a. C. A. And im so glad you raised it. I meant to ask this to the speaker the other night and im kicking myself the two days i didnt. Im going to ask you. You may say this is better directed to the speaker, but i will ask you anyway. Am i crazy or could everyone agree to put one sentence in this c. R. Thats going to pass that just repeals the mandate from the a. C. A. And then makes the case before the Supreme Court utterly moot anyway and everyone can walk away from this insane preposterous Rube Goldbergian bad faith argument that theyre making over there but also risks destroying the a. C. A. . Can we do that . So listen, im all for creative thinking. We need creative thinking right now. But understand, chris, that is not going to stop the republicans. They want to take away preexisting conditions. I mean, they have multiple grounds that theyre moving on here. The only way were going to stop them is the same way we stopped them in 2017. Were just going to have to fight them. Were going to have to fight them everywhere, including on the floor of the senate. And that means right now, every one of these republican senators who is up for reelection and everyone trying to get elected, those republicans need to be put to the question multiple times a day. Why are you helping donald trump take away health care from tens of millions of people . Why are you participating in a process that republicans and democrats both know is illegitimate . We need to be fighting back. Final question for you is about relief. You know, the heroes act passed the house. Trillions of dollars back in may, a whole bunch of extensions of programs that were in the cares act and also a lot of money for municipal and state governments, which is really necessary, a far, far smaller and more limited version passed the senate. They havent come to an agreement. I feel like its weirdly disappeared from the National Conversation that there are millions of people in terrible shape right now, like unemployment is running out. This juryrigged patches the president unilaterally signed are running out. People in tough shape. Like the government should be doing more, right . Well, im so glad you asked about this. Families are struggling so much. 200,000 people have now died. And and as you say, unemployments running out. People are being moved out of their apartments. Foreclosures are going forward. Kids cant get back into school. Parents are struggling to try to keep up, if they have a job trying to keep up with work and their families. Every part of this is headed in the wrong direction. And it is imposing real pain on the people of this country. As you know, the house passed a relief package. Its been four months ago now. And Mitch Mcconnell said he didnt feel any real urgency. And boy did he make that clear because when the republicans finally did move it was with this tiny Little Package that was loaded with poison pills that they knew would never go forward. So the republicans have clearly decided that their path to victory is not through trying to help people and then stand on their records. Their path to victory is to see if they can keep people from voting, get that election closer than it otherwise would be and then steal a Supreme Court seat so that if it goes to the Supreme Court they will still be in power. This is a naked grab for power. It is a page out of the playbooks of dictators everywhere, and we need to put a stop to it. Senator Elizabeth Warren of massachusetts, who is still there in washington, d. C. , as you see behind you. Thank you for making the time. Thank you. Still ahead, do you have a voting plan for the election . Well talk about why voting early could change the trajectory of the election right after this. Here . Nope. Here. When the middle of nowhere. Is somewhere. The allnew chevy trailblazer. Introducing the new sleep number 360 smart bed. Now temperature balancing, so you can sleep better together. Can it help keep me asleep . Absolutely, it intelligently senses your movements and automatically adjusts to keep you both effortlessly comfortable. Can it help with snoring . Ive never heard snoring. Exactly. No problem. And done. So you can really promise better sleep . Not promise. Prove. Save up to 1,000 on the new sleep number 360 smart bed and adjustable base. Plus, 0 interest for 24 months on all smart beds. Only for a limited time. I got it all from you im always pushing through i know well make it to the finish line i know youre waiting on the other side im like you ondemand glucose monitoring. Because theyre always on. Another lifechanging technology from abbott. So you dont wait for life. You live it. As states try to make it easier to vote by mail during a pandemic, which has already killed 203,000 americans, courts are dealing with a huge number of lawsuits around voting. And there are some pretty clear sides here. Democrats are trying to make sure as many people can vote as possible and as many ballots as possible are counted. In the trump campaign, the Republican Party and its allies are trying to throw out as many ballots as possible. Democrats were victorious in wisconsin where a federal judge extended the deadline for accepting absentee ballots. They were victorious in North Carolina where the state election board extended the deadline to count mailin ballots and created new rules to make it easier for voters to fix any mistakes, which is key. But there are literally dozens of lawsuits still being fought. State by state by state across the country. As someone who has been following whats happening here as closely as anyone, professor of constitutional law at Ohio State University and now an nbc news legal analyst edward foley. And he joins me now. Professor, its great to have you. I have been relying on your work, so its great to talk to you in person. Let me just start with a sort of proactive thing people can do to avoid some of the complicated litigation thats gone on around mailin ballots, and thats inperson early voting. What is your view on that and that seems to be something that is this cycle shielded from the litigation that were getting on the mailin ballots. Is that a fair characterization . Indeed. Im a big fan of inperson early voting. Ive done it myself. We have that in my own state of ohio. And its a great option because it allows you to choose the day and time that you vote so you can often avoid the long lines. And because its in person, you dont have any of the risks and problems that sometimes are associated with vote by mail. So in states that have it, i definitely recommend it. Unfortunately not every state has it as an option. Yeah. We should just put up obviously we have been running this plan your vote website. Nbc. Com planyourvote. Heres where there is early in person. All those purple states, including new york and in fact i just found out where the location is for myself, which is great. So, again, sort of as a pandemic option, like the first cut, i think, is that if you can do this and you can go at a time when theres not a lot of people and you wear a mask thats fairly straightforward. Now lets talk about mailin balloting. There is so much litigation about this. We ticked through a few of them. A lot of them have to do with when these ballots have to get in to be counted. Is that sort of one of the big battle lines here . Indeed. Thats probably the number one battle with respect to the absentee or vote by mail and thats in multiple states right now. Many of the battleground states. So this issue is going on in pennsylvania and in wisconsin and in michigan and in others as well. Yes, i put that as the top of the list of things to focus on. So pennsylvania, the state Supreme Court, there is a bunch of litigation. The state Supreme Court, my understanding, is issued a ruling similar to what we saw in wisconsin saying if you mail in before election day and it takes a little while to get to us we will still count it. Is that an accurate characterization . Yes. The pennsylvania Supreme Court said that as long as it is cast by election day and hopefully postmarked, as it should be, then it can arrive a few days later and still be eligible to be counted. One detail of that decision is that if its missing the postmark, the majority opinion from the pennsylvania Supreme Court presumes that its valid and so well have the ballot be counted unless there is evidence to the contrary. That seems like actually a pretty big deal, right . It is a big deal. That, i think, will be the primary focus of the litigation fight as it moves from the pennsylvania Supreme Court to the u. S. Supreme court. Let me ask you this. When you hear all this and sort of when you sort of step back for a second. You hear all this talk almost again like a fait accompli from the Vice President of the United States, the president of the United States, people that, you know, this is all going to be litigated. Its all going to end up in the Supreme Court. As someone who follows closely state by state election law and as a law professor, what is your reaction to that . That to me is unnerving. Like but do you view it as inevitable in the same way . Well, i think it is inevitable that were going to see litigation. As you pointed out, we have a huge volume, an unprecedented number of cases this year compared to any previous president ial cycle. But its not inevitable that those litigations in any way determine the outcome of the election. Right. The election should be determined by the voters. Thats the test for when an election is valid, because the winner is the genuine true choice that the voters want. And its unlikely that any of these lawsuits will be, you know, determinative of the outcome in that sense. The campaigns may try to use litigation as a tool, but the voters get to vote and the voters get to decide the you know, the election. And it might be helpful to mention that in our field we compare two numbers, the margin of victory on the one hand and the margin of litigation on the other hand. And usually the margin of victory so far exceeds the margin of litigation that its just not worth trying to sue over it. This is particularly the lawsuits after election day. Right now were getting lawsuits in front of election day, and they are of a different character than lawsuits that fight over the counting of the ballots afterwards. Final question for you. There is a strange thing that happened in pennsylvania today in which a u. S. Attorney put out a press release saying we found nine donald trump ballots that were discarded. And they put out the press release at the same time like the white house started talking about it and the president. Its unclear like what the deal is with these ballots. Then they had to correct the press release and say, actually seven were cast for the president. We dont know about the other two. I kept thinking, what is going on here . It seemed quite coordinated from a messaging standpoint. You have a u. S. Attorney putting this out, then the white house and kayleigh mcenany. Have you ever seen in the time you covered this a u. S. Attorney putting a press release out about nine ballots they found . I think the really key point here is to keep an eye on the big picture. Because theres probably roughly 6 million ballots in a state race like this and nine i dont want any voter to be treated wrongfully or to be disenfranchised because every voter should have the right to vote. But again, to go back to the point about how do we tell whether or not an election has served its purpose. Its whether collectively the result is the genuine choice that the voters as a whole want. And so every election has some blemishes or flaws. You like to reduce it to zero. So there is a lot about this particular incident that we still dont know. And a lot of questions to be asked. But i think what we know so far means that we should still be focused on the main question, which is does this affect the integrity of the election as a whole . Thats very well put, professor edward foley. That was really, really illuminating. Im looking forward to having you back again. Thank you. Thank you. Still ahead, were now learning more about some of the lasting damage the coronavirus can do to those who contract the disease. What doctors are seeing coming up. Im a talking dog. The other issue. Oh. Im scratching like crazy. Youve got some allergic itch with skin inflammation. Apoquel can work on that itch in as little as 4 hours, whether its a new or chronic problem. And apoquels treated over 8 million dogs. Nice. And. The talking dog thing . Is it bothering you . No. Itching like a dog is bothering me. Until dogs can speak for themselves, you have to. When allergic itch is a problem, ask for apoquel. Apoquel is for the control of itch associated with allergic dermatitis and the control of Atopic Dermatitis in dogs. Do not use apoquel in dogs less than 12 months old or those with serious infections. Apoquel may increase the chance of developing serious infections and may cause existing parasitic skin infestations or preexisting cancers to worsen. Do not use in breeding, pregnant, or lactating dogs. Most common side effects are vomiting and diarrhea. Feeling better . Im speechless. Thanks for the apoquel. Aw. Thats what friends are for. Ask your veterinarian for apoquel next to you, apoquel is a dogs best friend. As a society, i think its fair to say were struggling every day to figure out how to collectively mourn our ongoing tragedy. Its easy to become accustomed to the numbers and numb to them. Of course we have a president and all sorts of powerful forces that want us to just ignore it, forget about it. But, no, we refuse to forget about it. There are people working hard to make sure we pay some respect to the now over 203,000 americans we have lost to the virus. Folks like the organizers of the covid memorial project who installed 20,000 american flags on the National Model earlier this week, each representing ten american lives lost to the virus. We have also been taking time to bring you a few of the stories of those people no longer with us. Try to do some Small Justice to the lies they lived. Andrea maamman was a clinical psychologist. She was a mother. She had been in good health until she came down with the virus and she died on september 12th. She was just 37 years old. Her mother told the journal star in peoria, illinois, she gravitated to people who werent in the mainstream, she always gravitated to the underdog. James harris, known as dixie, enlisted in the navy at the age of 18 and after working on his family farm in georgia during the Great Depression the columbus ledger inquirer reports he survived pearl harbor and numerous medical setbacks before dying from coronavirus on september 11th at the age of 98. Brian fonseca was a longtime theater director in indianapolis. He died from the coronavirus last wednesday at the age of 65. The Indianapolis Star reports he made a point of championing people of color and lgbtq artists. One colleague says he never compromised his vision and his mission to appease anyone else. Nora sanchez was an Elementary School nurse in port isabel, texas. She loved to talk about her closeknit family. Sanchez passed away from the coronavirus on august 25th. Her friend and coworker told the local paper the port isabel press i could go into her office and let out whatever i was feeling that day. She would listen carefully, then tell me, its going to be okay, ma, while she was hugging me. She knew what to say to make me feel better. She was like that for everyone. School nurses are the best. Wendell smith worked in the Transportation Department at Spartanburg County School District 6 in south carolina. He was known for his calm demeanor and for putting Student Needs before his own. He died from complications related to the coronavirus on september 13th. In announcing his death, the School District said, if youve ever crossed paths with mr. Smith you know he never met a stranger. Tyler amberge was a father and youth hockey coach in north texas who died of the coronavirus in august. August 29th. He was just 29 years old. His wife said he was so much more than a victim of the virus. He was a great guy and loving husband and a loving father. I just want him to be remembered for more than just a person that more than just a person that passed away from covid. We miss you. Its totally not the same without you. We miss your lets do this look, the sound of your laugh cry screams, and how you make every day here the best day ever. We cant wait to get you back so weve added temp checks, face coverings, social distancing and extra sanitizing to get the good times going again. Were finally back. And cant wait until you are too. Buy now and get two days free at the parks. Restrictions apply. There is an idea you find in certain conservative circles, ones that the president listens to, that i think the president has heard. The government should not really be trying to keep people from getting sick. Instead, you know, if young and Healthy People get the virus, thats actually kind of a good thing because it gets us one step closer to socalled herd immunity. Trumps new adviser on coronavirus, dr. Scott atlas, hes a radiologisti think, not a Public Health expert. Hes argued the role of government is not to stamp out the virus. Senator rand paul, who had the virus and recovered, said hed open every school and id wait and see if anybody gets sick. Missouri governor mike parson, seen here ignoring social distancing guidelines at a summer steak fry a few months ago, whos been adamantly against any kind of mask mandate, saying you dont need government to tell to you wear a dang mask. Well, governor parsons just tested positive for the virus as has his wife. We hope they recover. This disease has killed over 200,000 people in this country. Its sickened nearly 7 million. And i think we tend to focus on that death toll, obviously. But there are thousands and thousands of people who cleared their initial Covid Infection but still battle the serious and sometimes crushing effects of the virus for months. Science writer ed yong has reported extensively for the atlantic on what he calls these long haulers, lodge haul impacts. Last month he wrote about a woman in her fifth month of gastrointestinal symptoms and severe morning nausea. Another has recovered from her neurological symptoms but not the scars the coronavirus left on her lungs. Joining me now is dr. Peter hotez dean of the National School of tropical medicine at Baylor College of medicine in houston. Doctor, we focus on hospitalizations and the sort of Health Care Capacity and we focus on fatalities. And then there are some people who get this and its not even that bad. But theres a big chunk of people who get real sick and real sick for a long time and in ways that are strange and new that were learning about. What are we learning about the sort of longterm effects of this illness on folks who do survive . Well, thanks a lot, chris, for having me. You know, i think before i answer that i just want to say thank you again for that last segment. You know, giving a face to this virus is so important because were seeing how the white house has been sort of dehumanizing it, taking away the humanity component of this virus which is just so devastating. So those reminders are really important. We know theres 200,000 americans who have perished in this epidemic. That really is the tip of the iceberg because this virus when it first came when we first saw it in wuhan, china then in europe we thought of it primarily as a respiratory virus, not realizing that this virus attacks the vasculature, the heart and the brain. And were seeing significant longterm disability because of this. Lung injury. People remajor shortness of breath, horrible fatigue, heart injury. A lot of heart damage, vascular damage, strokes, pulmonary emboli. And then learning about longterm neurologic complications sometimes referred to as brain fog where people just are not at their best ever, theyre always feeling this kind of cloud, unable to really concentrate. And for individuals who depend on high intellectual levels of activities its devastating. And then terrible depression that were seeing. A lot of neuropsychiatric disturbance. Its a horrible, horrible virus, chris, and its not rare. This is going to influence a generation of how we train medical residents, how we train young doctors, just like we did with hiv aids back in the 80s. Were going to have to relearn medicine because of this virus. Say more on that. You think its widespread enough, that these sorts of effects that youve noted and i think in my head maybe to make myself feel better ive been putting them in a narrow category of like okay, yes, there are some rare manifestations that show up. But what youre saying is these kind of effects across different parts of the body that endure are not super rare, that were seeing them quite a bit. Thats right. We dont have a good enumeration of this. And we also dont know how long its going to last also because were still pretty early into this epidemic. Are those same individuals experiencing brain fog or longterm cognitive deficits, will they be back to 100 a year from now . Will they still have depression . Will they still have heart injury . These are questions we just dont know. But its going to be really important to create almost a new specialty of medicine to follow longterm cardiac injury and look at the longterm consequences. And hopefully our National Institutes of health looks like its getting ready now to support those kinds of longterm studies. And remember also so many individuals who live in lowincome neighborhoods dont have insurance. The cost of this is going to be enormous as well. This is going to have a huge impact on changing Health Care Policy as well. Theres a profound policy implication here, right . Which is if you think that these kinds of effects dont happen and you can protect, say, longterm care facilities and seniors and people most at risk of fatality you can say, well, look, if it spreads around a college it spreads around a college and we can kind of hive off everyone. But if these effects this means you want to stop people from getting sick. Obviously you want people not to die. But you want to stop people from getting sick as a policy matter. Yeah. Theres two false narratives out there, one that this is only this is an illness exclusively for people over the age of 80, whereas in fact 20 of people who perish from this virus are under the age of 65. And among africanamerican and hispanic populations its 35 . This is robbing a generation of africanamerican and hispanic floemz of their mommies, their daddies, their brothers and sisters. Thats a story that hasnt been and also the fact that we are going to see significant longterm injury because of this. Were only beginning to really understand the full extent of this. Dr. Peter hotez, its always wonderful to have your insight. Thank you very much for that. Tonight. That is all in for this evening. S. Good evening, chris. Much appreciated. Happy to have you here. The Fox News Channel has just released its latest swing state headtohead polls for the president ial election. Per these new fox news polls that just came out, in pennsylvania former Vice President joe biden is leading President Trump by seven points. In nevada, former Vice President joe biden leading trump by double digits, by 11 points. And in ohio, this latest fox news polling shows joe biden leading trump by five. That ohio result is interesting. Theres been this sort of emerging political common wisdom this yr
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