When all in starts right now. Im chris hayes. When you spell it out to people, that millions and millions more americans are going to get sick or tens of mlt s os of millions Something Like 2 million americans are going to die and we have to deal with it, when you articulate it like that, to anyone, conservative, liberal, anyone, will people recoil in horror . That is how youre supposed to get to herd immunity. And with 1,000 people dieing a day still, its hard to get your head around the idea that more are going to die with this new strategy. From the president s new coronavirus adviser, scott atlas, which is why he had to come out today and push back from this port from the Washington Post saying hes urging the white house to embrace the herd immunity strategy. You see that there . The idea is so toxic, he comes out the next day, its a lie, its fabricated, fake news. He said hes never advocated doing herd immunity. On the same day or within hours, the president brings it up unprompted in an interview on trump tv with laura ingram last night. Are you worried that on the push for vaccines, these fast vaccines for covid, you might be splitting a coalition of americans, frankly in both parties who arent comfortable with these vaccines . Once you get to a certain number, you know, we use the word herd, once you get to a certain number, its going to go away. We use the word herd floating around. Once you get to a certain number its going to go away. Weve heard its going to go away before. But the number you have to get is Something Like over 2 million americans dead, according to expert estimates. And look, no matter what anyone in the white house says, whether its scott atlas or the president , this is functionally their strategy right now. They are letting the virus spread and letting people get sick and die. Weve seen it happen. Back in may, the u. S. Hit a plateau of cases of around 20,000 a day. Thats the first peak you see on the left. And the president started hectoring everyone to reopen, arizona, texas, reopened as if everything was fine and the virus had gone away. About six weeks later, what a huge outbreak. Thats the second peak you see on the right side. As you can see, we are still dealing with the aftermath of that outbreak. We are still averaging about 40,000 cases per day. And about a thousand deaths per day. A 9 11 every three days. Tens of thousands of people died in the second outbreak, who did not have to die. And now we have plateaued, but what do we think is going to happen next . We arent really doing anything different than what we were in may. Mask compliance seems to be higher, and places have shut down bars and restaurants in some places but reopening in others. But theres already one big sector that looks like an obvious disaster in the making. I cant even believe what im reading. Colleges and universities, okay . At the university of alabama ins tu in tuscaloosa, there were more than 500 cases in the first week. The mayor has closed down bars for two weeks in an effort to stop the spread. The daily beast report there iss chaos and confusion at ole miss in oxford, mississippi, students being ordered into quarantine after being exposed to the virus. Campuses in texas are seeing an increase in positive cases, especially Baylor University in waco, which has had 600 cases since august. Some students have been required to reside in place, following a spike in cases. Over the weekend, new york Governor Cuomo deployed a s. W. A. T. Team after an outbreak emerged. That school has suspended inperson classes. Today, Colorado College has, guess what . Also halted inperson classes, moving online following multiple campus quarantines. Notre dame, remember the president of notre dame boasted earlier this year about reopening, say thing is worth the risk, were going to do it. They shut down after an outbreak next month and are trying to reopen again. Well see how it goes. The university of North Carolina has sent students home from its chapel hill campus where the Positivity Rate has been around 30 for two weeks. All right. So with all this spread happening on campuses and in College Towns and students being sent home, that doesnt seem good. It seems inevitable theyre going to go back to their hometowns, infect their parents and neighbors. In fact, you know who has identified that as a serious issue . Top officials on the White House Task force who pleaded with the nations governors yesterday, this is coming from the white house, to advise College President s in their states to keep covid infected students on campus or risk another major outbreak. But in public, the president is focused on his own political fortunes and convincing everyone to ignore the virus as he has been from the beginning. So the president s big College Crusade is not about safety or quarantine procedures or protecting the community or even making sure kids can go back to school, it is about hectoring big ten football schools to play football, safety be damned thats been more or less the president s m. O. Throughout. Kathleen se beabelius served un president obama and the former governor of kansas. I thought we would start, secretary, you are in a big college town, a vibrant place where theres tons of students and teachers and staff around, and weve got reporting that youve got 474 cases there already. The greek community, which is doing standard rush, has a Positivity Rate of 10 . How does it how much sense does this make . Well, i must say that people here are pretty nervous, people in the community. Were a relatively Small College town, chris. We have about 120,000 normal residents when the colleges arent in session. And we have somewhat hybrid approach. Some of the kids are back, a lot more were here a couple weeks ago. Many are taking classes online. A lot of the classes are being held online, even if the kids are here. Our university is headed by a doctor, the chancellor is an oncology surgeon, who ran the ku medical center. So he is very much acare of Public Health and science. He put in place a mandatory testing protocol to begin the school year where you could not enter a classroom, a housing project, and office unless you had a covid test. And unless you had results that were negative. So at least there was a snapshot in time for everyone who could not get access to any place until they were tested. But he worries like all of us do that a onetime test doesnt tell the whole story. Greek houses have been suspended, and locked down. We have kids in quarantine right now. Its still warm here, so there can be a lot going on outside. But it isnt really the classroom setting that is precarious, its housing and eating and, you know, bars, which are shut down in kansas. We have mandatory masks. We have a lot of those protocols in place. But as you know, many, many Young Americans dont follow the protocol, and theyre already seeing spikes of cases. Well, i mean, to me this is the question right now for the next six weeks to eight weeks, is we went through this once, thought we learned our lesson, we didnt. We opened back up, we had a second outbreak. Theres tens of thousands of americans that lost their lives. And now the question to me is, if people wear masks and you keep bars shut down, basically is that enough . Can we avoid something that looks like what happened in the sun belt, in america, in six weeks from now if we do those two things or do we need to do more than that . Well, i think in some areas we definitely need to do more. Because those measures work but they work if you have already driven the virus to a very low rate. And then you begin to implement protocols to protect people and quickly Contact Trace when a positive case is identified. Were way beyond that. I mean, the cases are everywhere, and the asymptom mattek cases are every where. You talked earlier about herd immunity. This is the worst bastardization of the terminology ive ever heard. Herd immunity is, in a Public Health setting, a reference to how many people need to get vaccinated to protect other people. So i have a 16weekold granddaughter, she cant get vaccinations. So part of the deal is, anyone that is going to be around the baby needs to be vaccinated to protect her. These folks are talking about letting a massive nurmer of people get sick, letting a massive number of people die in order to, you know, you heard the president say the virus goes away. It doesnt go away, it just makes it harder to transmit if so many people have had the virus. This is a totally irresponsible, dangerous strategy in a country where weve seen more deaths than any place on the face of the earth and a thousand people are dying each and every day. Kathleen se beale u sebelius lawrence, kansas, thank you so much. You bet. For more on whats happening in our nations colleges and universities, im joined by democratic senator Amy Klobuchar of minnesota. As someone who represents the great state of minnesota, a member of the big ten, if im not mistaken, you know, its just so striking to me about the priorities, where do you think it ranks among your constituents getting big ten football back compared to Everything Else thats happening . Well, the gophers are pretty important to minnesota, but at the same time, we want people to be safe. So we look at the science. I was listening to kathleen here and i kept thinking in minnesota we talked about herds, its cows, cattle. We dont talk about herds of people getting sick. People dont want to get covid, they want to figure out how to protect themselves. That is what has bothered me about this president from the beginning. He looks at the next tweet, not the longterm. He literally had a Convention Last week, where they were disgracing the white house lawn, where they were wearing fancy outfits, and during that time, 3600 people died of covid. Its like theyre pretending it isnt happening. We want Real Solutions here. Thats why joe biden who worked with barack obama who brought us back from the last downturn, is the president for the midwest. Yeah. You represented that state, and i remember looking when you were running for president , looking at returns and splits in your state where you have a high approval rating, you have managed to outperform National Democratic tickets in certain areas of your state. So you have a good sense of the politics of your state. The Trump Campaign is betting on minnesota as a state they nar w narrowly lost last time. And theyre betting on the emphasis on street unrest is going to benefit them, that its going to scare the voters in your state. What do you think of that strategy . That is the worst kind of politics in a state like mine, that values good government, and as joe biden said in his speech in pittsburgh, President Trump is viewing this chaos, which has happened under his catch, both in the health care area, as kathleen just explained, as well as in the area of what we are seeing in terms of people so angry and feels so hit on and so divided, all this happened under his watch. So what the people of minnesota want is a president who is for all of america. And i was just up in duluth with the mayor, who is a strong supporter of joe biden. Today, the steelworkers came out strongly both nationally and in minnesota, talking about how they want a president thats going to represent them and not help his rich friends. I think all of that is going to resonate in our state. We want order back. And this president has created chaos. And in the words of kellyanne conway, the more chaos and anarchy and vandalism reins, the better it is on the clear choice. They literally are inviting this. And thats what you saw by the president s choices today, and how his rhetoric has divided people. So no, thats not what people want in our state. They want to get back to some sense of a president thats looking out that has their backs and is going to look at not just the next tweets, but the day after tomorrow and next year getting our economy back on track. Let me follow up on that. I wonder sometimes how much the basic meat and potatoes in some cases almost boring policy, i say boring in quotes, of what President Trump has done and what joe biden is proposing, what the Republican Party has done and what the democrats has done is penetrating. Do voters of minnesota know that President Trump is trying to kill obamacare . Do they know theres a massive tax cut for the richest people . That theyre rolling back environmental regulations that protect things like clean water. These arent the things of the tweets, the stuff on the nightly news. But is that knowledge about the basic policy agenda Common Knowledge in your state . I believe it is. There was just a poll today, despite all of President Trumps rhetor rhetoric, that shows joe biden up seven points in the state of minnesota. This is after, of course, hillary had a very narrow win in 2016. And as you point out, i have won several races by big margins. I think thats because people do listen to the facts. They know what hes up to here. I thought one of the things that was so powerful for joe biden, for independent voters out there, and in addition to having a convention that featured Many Republican speakers, he said yesterday, rioting is not protesting, looting is not protesting. Setting fires is not protesting. None of this is protesting. Its lawlessness, plain and simple. Those who do it should be prosecuted. So im sick and tired of having President Trump go out there and act like hes being mr. Law enforcement, when all of this is happening on his watch. And in fact, he has fomented and stoked this chaos that brought us to where we are today. Senator Amy Klobuchar there in the delightful city of minneapolis, which is delightful this time of year and will quickly become very cold. Great to see you tonight. We still invite you back when its cold. We like it when its cold, too. Thank you, senator. Coming up, chaos and incitement as campaign strategy. 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The president traveled to kenosha, wisconsin today, not to offer a message of compassion for all of those who have been so upset bhi whats happened in that city, not to call fog unity or healing or to meet with the family of jacob blake. Instead, President Trump was there to put his thumb on the scales to champion one side in a culture war. Because the president thinks these scenes youre seeing of his presidency, unrest, distopic scene scenes, that they are politically beneficial to him. Sending federal Law Enforcement into portland to gas and detain protesters for defending the 17yearold charged with two counts of murder for shooting and killing protesters in kenosha. The president is seeking to sew discord across the country. To get a better understanding, im joined by someone who grew up in kenosha, wisconsin, a democrat of wisconsin and represents that states second district, which is west of kenosha. Congressman, good to have you on this night. As someone who is from kenosha and knows it well,