Last provision of the aca. The latest on the court case that threatens to destroy American Health care as we know it. Plus Michael Flynn, general flynn is a wonderful man. Trumps former National Security adviser stops cooperating with prosecutors. And the president starts feuding with the British Ambassador. Were not big fans of that man. When all in starts right now. Good evening from new york. Im chris hayes. Tonight there is mounting pressure on labor secretary alex acosta to resign over his past treatment of wealthy sex predator Jeffrey Epstein, and there is a new focus on epsteins ties to donald trump, which are far more extensive than the president wants you to think. Epstein was of course indicted in new york yesterday, charged with conspiracy to commit sex trafficking and sex trafficking of underaged girls. Prosecutors allege he abused dozens of victims, some as young as 14 and faces up to 45 years in prison and has plead not guilty. Now epstein faced similar charges in florida more than a decade ago, but was able to cut a lenient nonprosecution agreement with the u. S. Attorney for the Southern District of florida that protected him from federal prosecution, allowed him to plea to state charges and spend just 13 months in jail with work release privileges. The u. S. Attorney who oversaw and signed off on that deal was none other than alex acosta, who is now Donald Trumps labor secretary. In the wake of the new charges against epstein, more than a dozen democratic president ial candidates, along with Chuck Schumer and nancy pelosi have said acosta has to go. For his part, acosta maintains the deal was the best he could get at the time. On twitter today he said he is, quote, pleased that new york prosecutors are going for war ward the case based on new evidence. Meanwhile, his boss offered some tepid support. I can only say this. From what i know, and what i do know is he has been a great, really great secretary of labor. The rest of it well have to look at it. Well have to look at it very carefully. Epstein has ties to some of the most powerful people in the unto, including bill clinton who took multiple trips on epsteins airplane who put out a statement yesterday saying he knew nothing about epsteins crimes. Legal scholar Alan Dershowitz who represented epstein in the florida case is being sued by a woman who claims epstein groomed her and lent her to epstein for sex and says, quote that part of this is clearly motivated by the fact that ive defended trump on constitutional grounds. And there is of course the president himself. Epsteins personal address book contained multiple private numbers for contacting the future president who said in 2002 that he had known epstein for fiennes years and described him as, a quote, terrific guy. Ill read more of the quote. He is a lot of fun to be with. It is even said he likes beautiful women as much as i do, and many of them are on the younger side. Trump flew on epsteins private jet at least once and epstein attended parties at maralago though trump eventually barred epstein from maralago because epstein sexually assaulted an underaged girl at the club. But not before then, 16yearold Virginia Roberts she says was recruited by epstein from the maralago spa. Virginia roberts was working in the spa at Donald Trumps Maralago Club in palm beach when british social i. C. E. To multimillionaire Jeffrey Epstein. Youre just thrown into a world that you dont understand, and you dont know how to youre screaming on the inside, and you dont know how to let it come out, and you become this numb figure who refuses to feel and refuses to speak and refuses. All you do is obey. Thats it. Back in 2010, epstein was asked in a sworn deposition, quote, have you ever socialized with donald trump in the presence of females under the age of 18 . Epsteins response, though id like to answer that question, at least today im going have to assert my 5th, 6th, and 14th amendment rights, sir. Its also worth remembering generally the president s history. He once told two 14yearold girls in a couple years, ill be dating you, and five women who competed in the 1997 miss teen usa beauty pageant told Buzzfeed News that trump walked into the dressing room while contestants, some as young as 15 were changing. While not specifically in reference to that miss teen u. S. Pageant trump has bagged about barging into. Ill go backstage before the show and everyone is getting dressed and ready and everything else, and you know, no men are anywhere. And im allowed to go in because im the own over the pageant therefore im inspecting it. Trump was asked if he still views epstein as a, quote, terrific guy. Well, i knew him like everybody in palm beach knew him. People in palm beach knew him. He was a fixture in palm beach. I had a falling out with him a long time ago. I dont think ive spoken to him for 15 years. I wasnt a fan. I was not a long time ago. Id say maybe 15 years. I was not a fan of his, that i can tell you. I was not a fan of his. Joining me now the investigative journalist whose dogged reporting helped expose, julie brown of the miami herald. A pleasure to have you here. Thank you. Ill start on the president and then talk about alex acosta. In terms of the president , this is clearly you can find pictures of epstein with a loft people because he cultivated powerful people. How would you characterize his relationship to the current president of the United States . Well, i think their relationship goes back a long time. They obviously had a lot in common. Both powerful, wealthy men who enjoyed the company of beautiful women, and they moved in the same social circles, and they also both had experience with models and modeling agencies. Epstein reportedly invested in a Modeling Agency, and there are Court Documents that said at the time that he invested in this Modeling Agency, he told the people that he was working with in this company that he wanted to set up this particular Modeling Agency just like Donald Trumps. So he admired some of the business arrangements that trump had made in his modeling company, and i think that in part, they had similar interests, business interests and also with models. Is there evidence to back up or verify the idea that trump threw him out of maralago or had a falling out over the fact that epstein assaulted someone at maralago or was cruising for underaged girls at maralago . No, i havent seen any evidence of it. My understanding is that this is something thats pretty hard to verify because it involved a father of a young girl, and im sure that he doesnt want to go public and admit that Jeffrey Epstein had hit on his daughter. So thats something thats pretty hard to verify unless a person would voluntarily come forward. Lets talk about acosta. The sort of line from acosta both today in the tweets and generally when he has been forced to talk about this, and it hasnt been much was we did the best we could with the evidence we had. We couldnt make the case. That an accurate characterization to your mind . Well, lets put it this way. If you dont feel like you have enough evidence in a case, you go find the evidence in the case. And i know for a fact that the fbi was working toward that and that they had a lot of good leads, including leads in new york that he was likely doing the same kind of sex pyramid scheme involving young girls in new york and possibly even overseas. So they were the investigators and the fbi were certainly aware that this case was moving forward and going places. In fact, my sources tell me that the fbi was very upset that acosta made this deal because they felt very close to being able to really seal this case and really get further witnesses beyond the girls. Some of the argument is the girls might have been reluctant witnesses, for obvious reasons. They were very scared. Of course. But there were other people involved in this operation. There were recruiters. There were schedulers, there were pilots, there were housemen who paid the girls. There were drivers who drove them back and forth. There were plenty of people that they could have squeezed if they really wanted to. They could have looked at his finances. He was paying lots of cash to these girls. I mean, the computers. They never went after his computers. That doesnt make any sense at all. So were they really trying to get him . Were they really trying to investigate . I mean, to me, there is a lot of questions there about whether they were really serious about the case to begin with. How much pushback pressure was brought to bear on that u. S. Attorneys office from people connected to epstein and his attorneys who were very highpowered, highpriced attorneys when this case was before that u. S. Attorney, alex acosta . Well, you know, obviously, you know, i think that they were pretty bowled over, quite frankly, by these big attorneys, kenneth starr, Alan Dershowitz, jay lefkowicz. Some had links between kirkland and ellis. Acosta was an alum of kirkland. Kenneth starr was at kirkland. Jeff leff wits was at kirkland. They had a lot of connections. As far as the pressure, you know, acosta says that they really delved into some of these lawyers, these prosecutors backgrounds. But i think as a federal prosecutor, your job, youre supposed to withstand that kind of pressure. Thats what your job is. And i think that, you know, you shouldnt be swayed by a big star power attorney, defense attorney. You should be still advocating for these girls. These were, you know, young 13, 14, 15yearold girls here. You know, thats who you should be protecting, not a child molester. And just to be clear, these girls, these teenaged girls, they and their parents wanted to go forward, right . Yes. They wanted oftentimes in these cases you have extremely reluctant witnesses, for good reasons, ambivalent about it. In these cases the individuals wanted the charges to be pursued. There were several women that were very strong about it, and in fact they were calling the Prosecutors Office repeatedly, and they werent getting any callbacks. And so what they did was they hired an attorney, fred edwards to help them communicate with the Prosecutors Office because they werent getting any calls back. And the police chief too was getting calls from the girls and their parents saying whats happening . Nobody is calling us back. Wow. Alan dershowitz and ken starr appear to have done a pretty good job for their client in this case. Julie brown, thanks for being with me tonight. Thank you for having me. I want to turn to a former federal prosecutor who has extensive experience prosecuting sex crimes. Also senator claire mccaskill, former democratic senator from missouri, now an msnbc political analyst. And senator, let me start with you. You were in the senate when acosta was brought before the senate. You were one of eight democrats to vote yes along with 52 republicans. There was some concern at the time about this case, but it wasnt front and center. Whats your feeling now watching all this develop . Well, its one id like to take back. Im embarrassed about that vote. There is subcontext. The guy who had been nominated before him was from st. Louis. And accused of spousal abuse. And a crusader against roe v. Wade. Yes. And against the minimum wage and against working people. So when a nominee came along that the Firefighters Union support and the labor union supported. Right. I think as somebody from a state where trump had done very well, i was going okay, maybe this guy. Now, do i regret that vote . You bet i do, because i spent years in the courtroom prosecuting sex offenders. And i know the dynamic between the federal prosecutors and state prosecutors on these crimes. And thats why now that were looking carefully at this, it makes no sense to me. And i really think they need to have a hearing and hear from the states attorney as to what actually happened here, because typically, the federal government doesnt do sex crimes. Thats a state prosecution 99 of the time. So the fact that the feds i had it and then gave it back for sentencing was incredibly unusual and something that doesnt happen very often. I never saw it, and i was in the courtroom and prosecuting for many, many years. You know, cynthia, there is so much a friend of my who is lawyer referred to the nonprosecution agreement i think he said one of the sloppiest and most corrupt documents he had ever seen. Does it strike you, as it does senator mccaskill and others as a truly bizarre agreement . Well, its not just bizarre, its a scam. I mean, they they hid this from the girls. The girls were calling and they were deceiving them. And acosta was meeting offsite secretly with defense attorneys. When i was a prosecutor prosecuting sex crimes or police officers, i didnt defer to any defense counsel, and i dont know anybody who did. And these guys were deferential and would this be okay with you . It was a bizarre relationship that they had. But its more than just sloppy. This is intentionally intentionally helping this rich white man over these young girls who didnt have the kind of representation that the department of justice is ethically responsible and morally responsible to advocate for. You know, part of the issue to me is that there is we still dont have the full story. Julie brown did amazing reporting. Absolutely. Acosta should answer questions. Yes. Im all for the states attorney answering questions, but we dont have an answer on why he was meeting offsite, why did he lie to the girls . Why did he give immunity to these other four women plus persons known and unknown . Why didnt he get anything in return for this deal . Why didnt he research up in new york . I could give you a list of 30 things that he should have to respond to right away. And this business about, well, i think justice was done is a complete a, not true and b, unacceptable response from him at this time. It strikes me that here is a guy. He is currently sitting in the cabinet, right . Right. It also strikes me that maybe the cost of keeping his job is he should answer these questions. Dont you think . You know, its so disingenuous for him to tweet on new evidence. You can read the indictment, and clearly its on conduct. The same. That was under his jurisdiction that he clearly reviewed and he clearly knew it was going on. Committee in the house is pretty busy right now. Yes. So the notion that they would pull up a hearing on this right now. But there are other committees of jurisdiction on both sides of the capital, both in the senate and in the house. Some committee of jurisdiction, whether its health and labor over in the senate or whether its an appropriations committee. I dont care who it is. Right. They need to call people in and find out what exactly happened here and hear from these young women. What were they willing to testify to . Because acosta keeps referring that they didnt have the evidence, that he wasnt going to get jail time under the federal law. Well, the federal law that he was just indicted under, there is a significant amount of jail time and no statute of limitations. And to your point, cynthia, one of the remarkable things about the miami herald and julie browns reporting, but primarily about the individuals involved is that these now women, then girls are on camera. Their names theyre on the record making the accusations now. This isnt some difficult to chase down group of individuals. They can come and talk to you. Right. You know, when you do prosecute sex crimes, there are women who dont want to come forward. Of course. There are people that are too fragile to be able to testify. But they had dozens of victims and they hadnt even finished their investigation. Dozens. When was the last time you saw a case like that, dozens . They could have done that. And like julie brown said, somebody was driving them. Somebody was paying them. Somebody was cleaning up after these encounters. There was a host of witnesses who should have been in the grand jury. This case was provable in 2005, and alex acosta needs to explain to us what really was the reason . Was it just rich white men hanging out at kirkland and ellis . Was there some other nefarious thing. If he had any shame, he would resign. Even if he resigns, he needs to answer these questions. Cynthia aksne and claire mccaskill, thank you. Sitting down with a new Jeffrey Epstein accuser who is telling her story for the very first time. You dont want to miss that. Next, Michael Flynn and his new legal team stop cooperating, potentially landing the former National Security adviser with a longer sentence. The pardon play in two minutes. , you feel like youre itching all the time. And you never know how your skin will look. Because deep within your skin an overly sensitive immune system could be the cause. So help heal your skin from within, with dupixent. Dupixent is not a steroid, and it continuously treats your eczema even when you cant see it. At 16 weeks, nearly four times more patients taking dupixent saw clear or almost clear skin compared to those not taking it, and patients saw a significant reduction in itch. Do not use if you are allergic to dupixent. Serious allergic reactions can occur, including anaphylaxis, a severe reaction. Tell your doctor if you have new or worsening eye problems, including eye pain or changes in vision. If you are taking asthma medicines, do not change or stop your asthma medicine without talking to your doctor. Help heal your skin from within. Ask your eczema specialist about dupixent. Just one week before Robert Mueller testifies before congress and the american public, there are new developments in the kiss of Michael Flynn. He is the only member of the Trump Administration to be charged in the russia investigation. Tonight it appears that flynn is reneging on part of his plea agreement. According to a new court filing, a former National Security adviser Michael Flynn walked back a previous admission that he had lied on foreign lobbying disclosure forms, which is a federal crime. Now his lawyers say that his old lawyers filed the inaccurate forms without flynns knowledge. Just last month, flynn fired his old legal team. He then hired a new lawyer, a guy who had previously written on twitter, quote, general flynn should withdraw his guilty plea to give you a sense where theyre coming from. Now federal prosecutors say they no longer believe flynn is telling the truth. Instead of calling him as a witness in a trial against his former Business Partner next week, they will designate him as a coconspirator instead. All this comes after a judge already warned flynn he would need to show more cooperation to receive a lighter sentence. He sure looks like someone who has opted to angle for a president ial pardon instead. Meanwhile, the democraticcontrolled House Judiciary Committee will vote on thursday about whether to subpoena a dozen Trump Associates in their obstruction of justice probe, and Michael Flynns name is number two on that list. Joining me now somebody who has been covering the russia investigation from the very beginning, david corn, coauthor of russian roulette. David, what is Michael Flynn doing . You know, one of the guests earlier tonight walked out of the studio and said what the f is going on here . And the only logical explanation with the information that we have is that Michael Flynn is going for a pardon from trump. Either he has an assurance that its coming or he is delusional in thinking that trump is actually going to stick out his neck and help him some point down the road. Because as you noted, it was just a few months ago that he appeared before a federal judge, judge Emmett Sullivan about the case he has plead guilty to and he was to be sentenced and he has kind of backtracked from his guilty plea, saying he was tricked into lying to the fbi. The judge said you know what . You should withdraw your plea then. If you want me to sentence you right now, im ready to do it, and it seemed like he would get some jail time. At this point flynn said oh, no, no, no, im not really saying that, and i will be cooperating with the feds in this other case. So lets come back and revisit my sentencing down the road when i have shown you that i have cooperated. Well, now he is not cooperating. The feds are saying that he is lying in this new case about his information and theyre calling him a coconspirator, not a witness. So when he goes back to the other judge, the other judge, if we take the starting point where we left off, has no reason to not lock him up. So why would flynn do this other than if he thinks that donald trump might come riding to his rescue. Right. And we should say there is a bit of pattern here, which is somewhat striking to me. Three individuals who struck cooperation deals and then essentially tried to back off them you. Had Michael Flynn who is doing that now. You had George Papadopoulos who had a plea under agreement and toyed with the idea of withdrawing his plea, inquired about it and then he had been trapped into talking about it and the whole thing was deep state plot, and then manafort. Manafort intentionally lied to the special counsel. And in the Mueller Report it says that he stopped them from getting to the truth of the matter. Yeah. And so we havent seen any pardons. We havent darn weve seen a few public signs from trump saying that he might consider it. But i dont know. I dont know how to look at this. Do you think that donald trump would go out there and pardon Paul Manafort unless Paul Manafort was doing something to actually help trump and needed to keep doing that . Its unclear at this point if manafort, flynn have not fully cooperated. Theyre sitting on information that would be worse for donald trump than whats already out there. So we do know that flynn has this new lawyer, sydney powell, who is a fox news commentator who believes mueller has destroyed evidence. Right. Who believe theres is an obama deep state plot against flynn, all the crazy conspiracy stuff that you hear on sean hannity, she is down with that. I dont know if she is leading flynn on or if flynn is trying to use her to rally the fox forces. Speaking of the obama deep state conspiracy. Yes. Incorrectly gendered sydney powell, its a woman. There is this piece of news about Christopher Steele who you were the first person to break in 2016. Basically, the ig went to talk to him. And one of the two sources said the inspector generals appeared to find steeles information credible. To extend the investigation. These people are looking into the charges of the origins of the investigation who have apparently spent 16 hours now with steele. What do you think of that . Well, you know, the deep state conspiracy on the other channel is that the steele dossier was somehow cooked up by the democrats and used by the fbi as a way to get this Russian Investigation going so they could stop donald trump from becoming elected president , which of course they didnt do. They didnt try, and they never used the dossier against trump in this time period. And of course we know that steele himself did not give this as isikoff and i report in our book, give this information to the fbi really until the fall of 2016 months into the russia investigation. So none of it holds up. Yet we hear this time and time again, and you get the breitbart crowd and daily caller and everybody else out there banking on this investigation by the inspector general, but also banking on yet another investigation that bill barr, who is a little bit more politically minded here, is also trying to mount in the same way, all to prove that somehow this Russian Investigation was cooked up from the beginning and distracting us from the key issue, russia attacked the u. S. Election, and donald trump and his campaign helped it along, encouraged it and benefitted from it. All right, david corn, thank you very much. Thank you, chris. What happened inside the courtroom today is next. Today the Trump Administration, along with a group of republican governors and state attorneys general pressed their argument before a federal Appeals Court to nuke the Affordable Care act. Also heard a group of 21 democratic attorneys general as well as the house of representatives there defending the law. And depending where the court lands, those arguments could be the end of all of obamacare, though it will likely go to the Supreme Court, the end of protections for people with preexisting conditions, the end of young adults staying on their parents insurance until the age of 26, the end of standards of what insurers must include in their coverage. It would be the end of an entire regulatory structure that has been built up since the law passed in 2010. The regulatory structure of American Health care system which is blown up, thrown into chaos. Its worth highlighting the extraordinary steps taken here by donald trump and his department of justice which not only in a very rare move opted not to defend obama care in the courts be, thank you spring agreed the entire law, all of it should be struck down. Some people call medicare for all a radical and disruptive proposal on the left, but on the right republicans are pushing something that is as radical as those critics say in the opposite direction right now at this very moment. Here to explain whats going on, Massachusetts Attorney general healy and nick bagley, a professor at the Michigan Law School who is part of an amicus brief last year in support of the aca. Nick, let me start with you to set the context, and then ill dom you, attorney general. The argument today happened in an appellate. There were three judges in an Appellate Court in new orleans. You and a lot of people thought the first argument, the first decision by district judge was pretty nuts. These are some of the quotes about it. He went too far in rejecting the entire law. This is a crackpot argument. It makes a mockery of the rule of law and basic principles of democracy. Pretty bananas, assault on the rule of law. What was the argument of that judge, and how did that go over today . So the argument is when Congress Passed its tax bill, it zeroed out the penalty for going without insurance. And everybody understood that what congress was doing was repealing the individual mandate. Right. The president said so himself. But the red state attorneys general say ahha, Congress Left on the books a naked meaningless command to buy insurance, one that cant be enforced at all. And they say that command is unconstitutional. And because that command, which is backed up by no penalties at all is unconstitutional, the entire act has to fall. What is the position of the state of massachusetts, attorney general, on this . Well, chris, its great to be with you, though im really sad to be here, because frankly, this issue should have been and was settled long ago. The Supreme Court already upheld the constitutionality of the Affordable Care act, and then Congress Went on to try to repeal it no less than 70 times. Its really sad that we are back in court today, and especially so because the u. S. Department of justice isnt doing its job. The Justice Department has a constitutional duty, obligation to defend the law, the Affordable Care act. Because they are not doing that, because Jeff Sessions and donald trump actually ordered the lawyers at the department of justice to no longer defend the aca, and in fact removed those lawyers from the case, we as democratic ags have had to step in to defend the constitutionality of the law. And fundamentally, this is about people. We talk about the law, and its important and the cases in court. But chris, im here and my colleagues are here because this is about peoples lives. You know, through the aca, hundreds of millions of americans have access to health care coverage. In the state of massachusetts alone, more than 300,000 have access through expanded medicaid. Another 2. 5 million folks are covered here with preexisting conditions. All of that is now at risk, and it is my hope that this court rules the right way, but certainly its a matter thats probably going to head to the Supreme Court, and we will be there the whole way. Here is the thing, nick. Everyone remembers the mandate and the Medicaid Expansion challenge. Its the first challenge to the Supreme Court. There is another one i think is a little forgotten, which was a question about whether the exchanges had to basically who could run the exchanges and pay for them. It was a weird statutory interpretation question that started off as kooky. I remember everyone in the beginning this is pretty nuts. Lo and behold, it was before the Supreme Court, and i feel like im watching the movie again. I watched you and everyone else, legal observer being like the fury of this case is insane, and yet today it sounds like they got a receptive hearing from the two republicanappointed judges on that Appellate Court. Yeah. It didnt go well today in court for the defenders of the Affordable Care act. I think thats safe to say. The arguments on display in this case, though, are an order of magnitude more kooky than the arguments in the last goaround when we were fighting about the Affordable Care act. This is another set of arguments that no principled legal observer has on the left or right has taken seriously, has said yes, these arguments have merit. So it was really a surprise to see the two republican appointed judges on the court today really seem to embrace an argument that almost everybody would have put well beyond the pale. So i think attorney general healey is right. I think this is likely headed to the Supreme Court. Well have to see if they bite on a case that is frankly much stupider than the previous two Court Challenges theyve heard. Well, whats your plan, attorney general, about how this goes forward . Well, to win the case. We were in court today. Im not going to read anything into the questions asked by the judges. Well await a ruling. But i can assure you this, chris. We will be there to fight to make sure that americans have access to the health care that i think theyre entitled to in this country. And what we see from republicans, this is a political game. You know, this isnt serious about policy. Thing 1 tonight. There is a pretty Big International incident brewing in washington this week after a british tabloid published leaked cables written by the uk ambassador to the u. S. Ambassador Sir Kim Darroch seems like a rather perceptive chap. He calls the white house, quote, uniquely dysfunctional, describes trump as inept, and my favorite, radiating insecurity. It didnt take long for that to start making waves on this side of the pond. Mr. President , do you have a reaction to the British Ambassadors comments . I havent seen it, but, you know, weve had our little ins and outs with a couple of countries. And i would say that the uk and the ambassador has not served the uk well. I can tell you that. Were not big fans of that man, and he has not served the uk well. So i can understand it, and i can say things about him, but i wont bother. Oh, i can say things about him, but i wont bother. For sure, dude. How long do you think our completely and totally thickskinned president could keep that promise . But what if, one day, there was a white flower for alzheimers first survivor . What if there were millions of them . Join us for the Alzheimers Association walk to end alzheimers. Register today at alz. Org walk. So after it was reported that the British Ambassador referred to donald trump as insecure in cables, the president held out nearly a whole 48 whole hours before unleashing a totally secure and composed series of insults, saying he didnt know the ambassador, but he is not liked or well thought of, calling him wacky, a very stupid guy and a pompous fool. He sure has a lot to say about a guy he supposedly doesnt know. President trump also disinvited ambassador darroch with the emir of qatar, for some reason the uk trade minister told the bbc that he would apologize to ivanka trump for the wholes me, but there was no mention of an apology in the white houses readout of that event. Regardless, this has got to be the end of the road for the ambassador, right . Considering the president himself said we will no longer deal with him . Will the state department deal with the ambassador . We will continue to deal with all accredited individuals until we get any further guidance from the white house or the president , which we will of course abide by the president s direction. So you have not received any instruction from the white house to cut contacts with the embassy or the ambassador . No. Maybe check your phone . Okay. Well just have to wait i guess for the next set of tweets. Well, first of all, i dont have thin skin. Have i very strong, very thick skin. I have a very strong temperament, and its a very good temperament, and its very controlled temperament. Tonight, we renew our resolve that america will never be a socialist country. Its a wild thing that in the year of our lord 2019, socialism is the front and center of our political debates. President ial candidate senator Bernie Sanders is once again running on a democratic socialist platform. Representative alexandria ocasiocortez, one of the most recognizable members of congress identifies as a democratic socialist, and 30 years after the fall of the berlin wall, there seems to be resurging debate about what socialism means. In this weeks podcast, why is this happening, i have a conversation about the past, present and future of socialism with bhaskar sunkara. Do you want me to go first or do you want to go first, brea . You can go first. Audible reintroduced this whole world to me. So many Great Stories from amazing people. It makes me want to be better. To be able to connect with the peoples stories that im listening to. Thats inspiration. Its on during my commute, its on all the time. Doing the dishes. Working out. While im in the car. At bed time. An audible listener is someone that wants to broaden their mind. People who are tired of listening to the radio, or music. To hear her speak those words. It was incredible. It was unbelievable. With audible originals, theres something for almost every taste in there. Everything you ever wanted to hear. I signed up for getting a credit every month, and i started exploring books that i normally wouldnt read. Our ability to empathize through these stories, with these stories, can be transformational. Its my own thing that i can do for me. See what listening to audible can do for you. Just text listen20 to 500500. The 2016 election was a banner year for disingenuous and despicable disinformation. One of the most disgusting examples was a specific Conspiracy Theory that sullied the memory of a man who had been murdered. Seth rich work for the Democrat National committee in the Voter Protection division and he was by the accounts of his family and friends a great guy and a loyal member of the dnc, but after his murder, which remains three years later unsolved, conspiracy theorists started floating the false and totally baseless idea that the hack of the dnc emails was not in fact a hack but was actually an inside job, a leak, and that seth rich was the source. It was a theory that of course conveniently provided an exculpatory story for the russians who were, of course, actually behind the dnc hack. There was no evidence to support the seth rich Conspiracy Theory and it slandered the name of a man who had been murdered, but it started in the bowels of the internet and worked its way up to the highprofile outlets and to the white house itself. Lets start with the seth rich issue, jay, and the timeline here. Is it possible that this whole russia narrative was and the leaks really came from a dnc staffer and that the medias been wrong for almost a year . Well, sean, the media has not been right yet. The 27yearold works for the dnc. He was shot in the back, murdered just two weeks ago for unknown reasons as he was walking down the street in washington. What are you suggesting . Im suggesting that our sources take risks. Were just two months shy of the oneyear anniversary of seth richs murder and ever since we learned rich was a dnc staffer, the conspiracy theories online have taken a life of their own, but today fox 5 as learned there is new information that proves these theorists are, in fact, right. We have this very strange story now of this young man who worked for the democratic National Committee who apparently was assassinated at 4 00 in the morning having given wikileaks Something Like 23,000 im sorry, 53,000 emails and 17,000 attachments. Nobodys investigating that. Okay. Great to have you here and great reporting. Great to be with you, chris. What is the origin of this . Well, as you suggested, its not that big of a surprise, although nobody knew it. The russian intelligence agency, the svr, their version of the cia, circulates a bulletin three days after seth richs death saying he was gunned down by a squad of assassins hired by Hillary Clinton while walking home at 4 00 in the morning on a sunday morning. There was absolutely no evidence for this. No. Whatsoever. That the same day that the svr circulates this, it pops up on this obscure website whatdoesitmean. Com that is a streak for russian propaganda and from there it migrants to 4chan and reddit and soon within a few weeks roger stone is on it, tweeting a picture of seth rich saying, you know, another dead body in the clintons wake. From their Julian Assange that same day picks up on it, throws that suggests that seth rich was his source. Which, by the way, i just want to be clear, that is a particularly despicable thing to do. Absolutely. Because the whole thing that they always say, wikileaks, we dont say anything about sources. Every reporter says that. To imply a guy was killed is your source. That is really vile. We talked to the dutch reporter who interviewed assange and he was astounded by what assange was saying. This is episode two in our podcast. You got to listen to the exchange and the reaction to what assange was saying. And you know what was really particularly cynical about what assange was doing . Seth rich was killed on july 10th. We know from the Mueller Report and the indictment when the gru online persona guccifer 2. 0 sends that archive of emails. It was july 14th. It was four days after seth rich was dead. So assange knew from the getgo that he was lying. Seth rich could not have been his source. I should also say that my beloved magazine, the nation, that i worked at for years ran stories dabbling in this. This got to lots of places that were left venues that adopted it, there were conservative venues, all the way up to sean hannity and local news stations. This was everywhere. And we should point out, the trump white house. We have Text Messages from steve that is all in for this evening. Tonight the president tries to distance himself from an old friend, a new york finance year and sex offender. While trump sympathizes with his labor secretary under fire for his handling of the initial case. Plus the democrats are papering washington preparing to issue a dozen subpoenas to witnesses in the Mueller Report including some big names. The president has gone after the brits again labeling the British Ambassador to the u. S. A pompous fool and the 2020 race changed again today. All of it as the 11th gets underway on a tuesday night. Good evening once again from r
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