Authors of how democracies die on where we are after a year of trump. Its bad. When all in starts right now. Good evening from new york. Im chris hayes. Tonight the white house is caught in an enormous lie about the chief of staff john kelly and his decision to vouch for the honor of a man who is alleged to have physically abused his two exwives the man in question is now former white house staff secretary rob porter who maintains in the face of significant evidence to the contrary that these out outrageous allegations are simply false. Porter handled every document that went to the president , many of them high lie classified. Yet in his nearly 13 months on the job, he was never given a full security clearance. Porters exwives say when the fbi interviewed them as part of his security clearance review, they detailed his abuse. During the fbi background interview for security clearance, i shared with the fbi all the details that i have shared in previous articles including access to a protective order from june of 2010 and police calls i had made to our home. So you told the fbi that rob porter was abusive towards you . Yes. A former white house official told nbc news john kelly was aware of the abuse allegations before they were first reported. There are numerous reports that kelly and other top aides knew about them for months. And yet, john kelly took no action to remove porter despite the horrific nature of what porter is alleged to have done and the fact that the allegations made porter susceptible obviously to blackmail. In fact, according to washington post, after the allegations were first reported, kelly continued to press him to stay in his job saying he could weather the storm. But it gets worse, much worse because after the allegations surfaced, kelly put out a statement strongly defending porter. Even after horrific photos like that one were published showing the alleged abuse, showing what this man did to the woman that was his wife, white house officials said kelly stood by his previous statement praising porter, a statement that read in part rob porter is a man of true integrity and honor and i cant say enough good things about him. He is a friend, a confidante and a trusted professional. I am proud, proud to serve alongside him. The man alleged to have done that. Late last night as it become clear the white house could not weather the storm, kelly released a new statement suddenly claiming to be quote, im quoting here, shocked by the new allegations. He was shocked by the new allegations. The task of explaining kellys change of heart fell today to White House Principal deputy secretary raj shah who led the White House Briefing for the very first time. The statement changed from john kelly yesterday morning to yesterday evening. He said based on new allegations. What changed yesterday absent a photograph in terms of new allegations . I think what i just referenced, the reports had additional allegations, they had more information. To be clear, what was so shockinging that had changed . You said it was shock. What was he referring to. The full nature of the allegation, particularly the images. Lets put aside for now the notion that john kelly only apparently believes abuse allegations if he can see the bruise around the eye or a fist is alleged to have gone into a womans face. Put that aside. Shahs claim just isnt true. Kelly stood by his statement after the foys came out. It was only when the public pressure grew too strong, when the outcry grew too loud that john kelly and the white house decided to effectively cut porter loose. The briefing today shah declined to offer a clear explanation for what kelly knew and when he knew it. Theres been some reports about the chief of staff. He became fully aware about these allegations yesterday. Im not going to get into the specifics. Did he know any of this back in november . Again, im not going to get into the specs. I think its fair to say that you know, we all could have done better over the last few hours or last few days in dealing with the situation. You used the term fully aware. I dont understand what that means. What does that mean john kelly knew or didnt know. I do know for instance had he not seen images prior to his statement, the statement on tuesday night. Did he know of the allegations . Say that again. Did he know of some allegations. Im not going to get into every single specific. Does the president retain full confidence in his chief of staff. Yes. What could the white house have done better. Im not going to get into a ticktock and detailed specifics. A lot of individuals were involved with the white house response to this, myself included. A lot of us could have done better. Joining me now chris liu under president obama cabinet secretary. Can you tell us how this would have gone in and Obama White House if someone in an fbi background check had people bring these allegations as his exwives did. This never would have happened. We had a very strict vetting process that would have had detailed interviews with our appointees in addition to the background check. You had an example of two exwives making statements to the fbi agents. You also apparently had a police report. The minute that came up, i guarantee you the fbi flagged that for somebody in the white house. So it will be interesting to see what the timeline is here. But when that would have been flagged to somebody at the white house probably a deputy chief of staff in the Obama White House, the person in question would have had a chance to explain it, but if they did not have a credible explanation, they would have been shown the door. So i want to get the timeline straight here. This is someone who is essentially working, they said hes working on interim security clearance for over a year. How does that work . Well, look, security clearances take some time and certainly at the beginning of the administration when you have a lot of people trying to get cleared, its not inconceivable months could go by. What is inconceivable is you could work in such a sensitive position for 13 months with an interim clearance. It raised questions as to did the white house deliberately slow down the process so porter could stay in the job . Did somebody game the system . Did somebody override the recommendations of the fbi . In the white house, the president can grant a clearance to whoever he wants. Right. Thats the key here. What youre saying is the fbi, we know from these two women that they told the fbi. Youre saying the fbi would flag this. This would get to someone in the white house as soon as they flagged it, right . Absolutely. The fbi does a report on everyone that theyre trying to clear and you know, 90 some of the cases probably, its just a clean report and the person gets the clearance. Something like this that would have had had multiple flags would have gone to somebody in the white house. Its up to them what to do with that report. So there are theres at least one person in the white house and who would that be . The white house counsel, the chief of staff . Well, in our white house, it probably have been the deputy chief of staff, white house counsel, the head of president ial personnel. There would have been multiple people that would have known about this. Put this in context. We know also that Jared Kushner has been working under interim clearance for the last year, as well. Congressional democrats have been trying to get information about that and have been unsuccessful. Aside from the sort of moral abomination of what this individual is alleged to have done and which people look the other way, the reason the fbi does a background collect is to see if youre susceptible to blackmail while handling sensitive information. Is this a Security Risk to have had individual have this job with this situation . Absolutely. One of the questions they always ask in the background investigations is this person someone who has good moral character . Do they know right from wrong . Are will he susceptible to blackmail. Something like there which was clearly very troubling is, something very embarrassing he didnt want to be made public, if that were dangled in front of him, i dont know rob porter. By all accounts, you know, im not going to say hes an honorable person. He has led a successful career. Im not saying he is susceptible to blackmail but this is why the questions get asked. When youre the staff secretary, everything comes through you. You see everything that goes to the level of the president in terms of the level of information you see. The briefing book goes through you, all the classified information. You have the opportunity to sit in the white house situation room when National Security decisions are being made. You are the gate keeper. Chris lu, thanks for your time tonight. With me mazie hirono of hawaii. Senator, do you think that john kelly should lose his job over this . Well, i definitely think that rob porter should lose his job. So im glad he resigned. The thing is this kind of vetting which seems very loose and not particularly in depth goes to the president. I think that ultimately the president is responsible and he sets the tone. And so if john kelly resigns over the fact that something he either knew or should have known and yet they kept this person on for a year, i think that he should consider resigning but you know what . Who is he going to be replaced by . Someone else that will do the president s bidding. Youve written a letter, you and your colleagues requesting investigation into the White House Security clearance process. Why . This follows a number of inquiries ive already made previously when then fbi director comey testified, i asked him a series of questions about the fbis involvement in vetting for clearance people at the white house. So there was a whole series of questions. I followed that up with a letter a couple of months later. Asking for a suspension of Jared Kushners clearance until it could be investigated. As to whether or not he should have access to highly classified information. So this is yet another inquiry as to the responsibility of the office of, well, basically the white house. On who they hire and who gets clearances for access to highly highly classified information and any kind of information. With regard to rob porter, you know, this is they also need to care about the stability of the individual, the moral turpitude, all of those factors are very much at play as chris mentioned a little whiling. Dont you think that what he is alleged to have done should be disqualifying to work in the white house . I would sailed so because ive served on the intelligence committee. And we know that if someone is a potential target for blackmail because theres some information that that person would want to have hidden, that person should not have access to classified information, should not be working at the white house in the level particularly in the kind of level that rob porter was in. The White House Counsel Don Mcgahn appears to be in the chain of commands. In recent weeks an exgirlfriend porters contacted don mcgahn, voiced her distress after could discovering evidence of a romantic between porter and hope hicks. She also also alleged he had abused his two exwives. It looks like don mcgahn was flagged, as well. Do you trust don mcgahns judgment . Ive had some conversations with mcgahn that have been perfectly professional. But as i said, what this raises is just the atmosphere at the white house where they do not seem to carefully vet people and even if they vet people, they allow people who may be subject to be blackmail or really setting a tone at the white house. There are so many serious questions about all the people that the president has surrounding him. Of course, it starts with the president himself who is very prone to lying every single day. He changes his minds about major issues. Every single day. And so its not surprising that there are other people around him who raise serious concerns about their own behavior and their own ability to make good judgments. Senator mazie hirono, thanks for being with me. Next more on the calls for john kelli to resign amid questions what he knew when about the abuse allegations against rob porter after this twominute break. Remember our special night . Abdominal pain. And diarrhea. But its my anniversary. Aw. Sorry. Weve got other plans. Your recurring, unpredictable abdominal pain and diarrhea. May be Irritable Bowel Syndrome with diarrhea, or ibsd. Youve tried overthecounter treatments and lifestyle changes, but ibsd can be really frustrating. Talk to your doctor about viberzi,. A different way to treat ibsd. Viberzi is a Prescription Medication you take every day that helps proactively manage. Both abdominal pain and diarrhea at the same time. So you stay ahead of your symptoms. Viberzi can cause new or worsening abdominal pain. Do not take viberzi if you have no gallbladder, have pancreas or severe liver problems, problems with alcohol abuse, longlasting or severe constipation, or a bowel or gallbladder blockage. 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The following day after the intercept published photos of his first wife battered face after an alleged incident . 2005, the white house told reporters kelly stood by his statement. That is his judgment that someone who did this is a man of true integrity and honor. It wasnt till hours later late last night that kelly professed to be shocked by the allegations though its unclear when he became shocked since he reiterated support for porter after the photos were published. That is par for the course for a white house chief of staff who called a sitting congressman an aempty barrel and lied about her conduct refusing to an to apologize even after tape emerged proving he lied the same chief of staff who suggested dreamer whos didnt sign up for the daca program were simply lazy. There are 690,000 official daca registrants. And the president sent over what amounts to be two and a half times that number to 1. 8 million. The difference between 690 and 1. Million were the people that some would say were too afraid to sign up, others would say were too lazy to get off their asses but they didnt sign up. He doubled down on that statement the same day. Some of them didnt hear about the program. Some of them were concerned about signing up. Some of them should have probably gotten off the couch and signed up. Joy reid the host of am joy, Barbara Boxer a former democratic senator from california. Joy, ill start with you. Kelly is at the center of this and a pattern emerged about his judgment. Ive been retweeting you when you say donald trump is the Republican Party. He agrees with their ethos. The same goes for kelly. This whole myth that was a media created myth that he was the grownup in the room, because hes a general, hes a man of honor and integrity. Everyone respects his military service. Its admiral what hes been able to achieve as a man of the military. Its just a guy, he agrees with donald trump. He has the same ethos as donald trump. He agrees with him on immigrants on his take on them. This guy praised robert e. Lee, praises the confederacy. I dont know why at this point were surprised he stood by this guy. Hes been chief of staff since last july. If the fbi informed the white house that this guy couldnt get a security clearance, the chief of staff would know that. Senator, are you i feel like i lose my capacity to be shocked. I have to say i genuinely im shocked that this individual was given the job he was in that white house and then defended after it became public after they knew what he is alleged to have done. Well, we have to remember that kelly had to know all about this. And the people very close to donald trump at the very high level knew about this. Ive been visited by the fbi. They asked my opinion about certain judges that were proposed for the bench because they came from california bip knew them. They turn over every rock. I would i know this in my heart if not i didnt read about it, but i know in my heart that the fbi must have seen that photo. Must have seen the complaint that was written to the court. They knew what they were seeing. So it is shocking that this individual would pass and would vet and be put in this situation where yes, not only is he you know, subjected to the possible blackmail because those are very serious things. But also having a wife beater close to the president . So close to the president . It is stunning to me. And you know, i agree with joy that i guess a lot of people are surprised about kelly. I started to get more and more surprised after the last few comments she talked about. But i think we were clinging to the hope that somebody could bring order and some kind of morality, if you will, to this white house instead, we see chaos. Continuing. Yeah, i would say also, to your point about john kelly, theres always something condescending about it, as well. Hes an adult man of long sterling career in the United States armed forces. He knows what his views are. He knows who hes working for and he has chosen to do that because thats the world view he wants to pursue. Absolutely. He was for the muslim ban, for deportation, he signed the order that describes how dreamers are now eligible to be deported. The media wants to believe it partly because hes a man of the military but also this sort of hope there is someone that can contain donald trump. Maybe there is this magical grownup in the white house that will constrain him. Lets keep in mind porter was also allegedly dating someone incredibly close not president , hope hicks and that that didnt seem to raise enough alarm that this person is that close and more than one of his expartners has said that hes violent toward women. Abusive. That didnt seem to rouse. Donald trump is not a man who exactly has exactly been good to the women in his life. He is accused multiple times, what is it 19 accusers of Sexua