Transcripts For MSNBCW All In With Chris Hayes 20170224 : co

More signs the resistance is having an impact. And more republicans on the run. Senator, i thought you were in europe. Plus, new reporting the fbi rejected a white house request to publicly knock down reports of Trump Campaign ties to russia. And my exclusive interview with the muslim woman who worked on Donald Trumps National Security council only to quit after eight days. When all in starts right now. Good evening from new york, im chris hayes. The man dubbed the great manipulator chief strategist steve bannon who some refer to as president bannon came out from behind the curtain to rally the faithful at the conservative Political Action conference. Bannon appearing on stage with white house chief of staff Reince Priebus where he took a victory lap at the Election Results and lashed out at the media which bannon says opposes President Trumps economic nationalist agenda. As Economic Conditions get better, as more jobs get better, theyll continue to fight. If you think theyll give you your country back without a fight, you are sadly mistaken. [ applause ] everyday it is going to be a fight and that is what im proudest about donald trump. All the opportunities he had to waver off this, all the people who came to him and said moderate, everyday in the oval office he tells reince and i i committed this to the American People, i promised this when i ran and im going to deliver on this. Bannon offered that message not really to the American People at large but to a crowd of conservative activists eager to chant trumps name. It was what you might call a safe space for him. It might well be time for bannon to get out of the d. C. Bubble. A very different message is being expressed at republican town halls across the country by an American Public that, lets be clear, favored trumps opponent by nearly three million votes in. Fargo, north dakota, today, an overflow crowd crammed into a coffee shop to press representative kevin cramer with questions on the attempt to feel the Affordable Care act. Working people, for example, their premiums went up about 47 4,300 per year. Show your source show us your source you cant make up the facts. In louisiana, senator bill cassidy asked by a boisterous crowd about President Trumps links to russia. Before we can have anything in this country, we need to make sure that our president is not a puppet or vladimir putin. [ cheers and applause ] in charles city, iowa, a woman pressing senator Chuck Grassley on whether he truly represents his constituents in asking what they told his office about trumps cabinet nominees. Did you have more pros or more cons in support of betsy devos . More cons. In the case of Jeff Sessions for attorney general, did you have more pros or more cons . More more cons. In the case of scott pruitt for epa, did you have more pros or more cons . More cons. In the case of steve bannon as a principal member i can give you an i can make it easy for you. It eventually got to a point where people called up and they said were against every one of trumps nominees. In northwest arkansas, a woman asking tom cotton to do something to get President Trump to release his tax returns. What would you do to help bring that about in congress to show this mans tax returns . The way we determine who our commanderinchief in this country is is through elections. And we just had an election. [ audience reacts ] this is a hotly contested issue during the election. And donald trump still won. The former president showed his birth certificate, my god. [ crowd chanting tax returns ] many republicans are simply refusing to hold town halls, senator marco rubio of florida caught on camera at a hospital today walking away while asked why he isnt meeting his constituents. Are you going to have a town hall . Theres a constituent town hall today. We need to hear from you, senator. Texas senator ted cruz who hasnt held a town hall claimed town hall anger isnt about him anyway. Theyre filled with rage. Not at republicans, not even at trump. Theyre filled with rage at the American People, at the voters, for daring to elect a republican president , a republican majority in both houses. Weird, theyre not really yelling at other voters so much at these things but perhaps no one had a more offensive reaction than representative Louis Gohmert of texas who invoked Gabrielle Giffords as an excuse for not holding a town hall saying the house sergeant at arms advised us after former congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords was shot at a public appearance that civilian attendees at congressional Public Events stand the most chance of being harmed or killed, just as happened there. That prompted this response from giffords herself to the politicians who have abandoned their civic obligations i say this have some courage, face your constituents, hold town halls. The resistance to President Trump and the gop agenda in the streets and town hall seems to be having an affect on the legislative issue before the country right now. The republican effort to repeal the Affordable Care act which so far has stalled a bit in congress. In a quinnipiac polling on january 12, 48 of americans supported repeal. A slim plurality. In the knew quinnipiac poll, just 43 say they want repeal while 54 want the law to remain. At cpac, Sam Brownback of kansas, arguably the most conservative governor in the country, said Congress Needs to find a way to, and im quoting here people to stay on the obamacare Medicaid Expansion. Former House Speaker john boehner, remember him, speaking in florida today said republicans ultimately arent going to repeal and replace obamacare after all. I should havent called it repeal and replace, thats not whats going to happen. Theyre basically going to fix the flaws and put a more conservative box around it. Joining me now, republican congressman Leonard Lance of new jersey who last night hosted a very contentious town hall of his own. Isnt there something beautifully american about voters yelling at their elected representatives . It happens all the time and i believe in a beautiful america, chris. Do you enjoy them . I enjoyed yesterdays town hall meeting. I so enjoyed it that im doing another one saturday morning, chris. I want to show, just to give a flavor of what these look like for you. Heres someone asking you about impeachment at a town hall. Take a listen. Do you support impeachment . [ cheers and applause ] now is the time to put country before party. I feel betrayed, all of us feel betrayed because you have flipflopped on your position on the environment. What is your position . Take a position. What do you say to your colleagues like Louis Gohmert who said theres a safety concern in having these. We had Police Presence last night and felt perfectly comfortable. Let me say i dont advise other members of congress as to what they should do in their districts but i try to lead by example, chris, and ive always had town hall meetings. Ive had 40 of them, this is my 41st and i will have my 42nd saturday morning. Are they affecting the way you think about the issues . They certainly are making me examine the issues and i want to hear from all constituents, not only republicans and independents but also democrats and at last nights town hall meeting it was overwhelmingly democratic members of the constituency i serve and i try to serve everybody, even those who may not have voted for me. Let me ask you, youve been in Congress Since 2009. How many times have you voted for Obamacare Repeal . Quite a few. 20, 30, somewhere around that . Im sure more than that. Are you going to repeal obamacare . I think were going to repair it. Thats the word i use. I think were going to retain the Medicaid Expansion. Im not sure its going to be at 90 federal reimbursement. Wait a second, though. You just told me two seconds ago you voted upwards two or three dozen times to repeal obamacare. Thats correct. The president ran on repealing obamacare. Paul ryan pledged to repeal obamacare. Mitch mcconnell pledged to repeal obamacare. Republicans have been telling the country for eight years were going to repeal obamacare. Youre telling me they are not going to repeal obamacare . I ran on repeal and replace. I never ran on repeal alone and indicated to my constituency that i do not favor the status quo that existed before obamacare came into what is repair im hearing repair. We had repeal, then we had repeal and replace, now we have repair that parachuted into the discourse. Thats different than repeal and replace, right . Repair means keep the fundamental framework as john boehner said. I think this is a matter of semantics but i think repair is repeal and replace. Its not just repeal, it has to be replaced as well. And it seems to me that were going to try to keep the Medicaid Expansion to the greatest extent possible. Adds you know, its not nationwide. What about things like getting rid of lifetime caps . People staying on their coverage until 26 . We favor having young people stay on parents policies. Ban on preexisting conditions . Absolutely. Okay, how do you score that out . This is the thing i keep running into with every republican i talk to. They say yes, well keep the popular parts, get rid of the unpopular parts, the parts we dont like. But those two things are linked in a deep policy way in terms of how the thing functions together. Thats why we want to make sure people stay on policies, have the opportunity to have policies. The market is collapsing and Insurance Companies are leaving the market in the obamacare exchanges. Is that happening in new jersey . Its collapsing . You would describe it as collapsing in new jersey . I would say the alternative policies are quite limited and theyre not the numbers that they were, there were originally five and now there are two. The president promised lower deductibles, is that a promise you guys are going to keep . Lower deductibles, i certainly hope theyre lower than they are now. As you know they have increased and the average family has had policies increase by 5,000. Can you promise that youll deliver on lower deductibles for americans . I dont make promises that i cant keep so we will see. But i certainly do not overpromise the way president obama said that average family policies would decrease by 2, 500. Has this president overpromised . He has said hes going to replace it and he has said it might take a year or into 2018. I think hes been very responsible in that regard. Congressman, come by any time. Nice to see you. Thank you. Im joined by matt kibbe, the former head of one of the Tea Party Organization freedom works, current president of the libertarian Nonprofit Free the people and ezra levin, cofounder of the grassroots trump resistance Political Organization indivisible. Maybe ill start with you, ezra. You guys indivisible is a fascinating phenomenon for me. Its folks who lived through the tea party uprising as staffers for democratic members of congress, saw how it worked and are putting out their accrued wisdom now to folks on the other side. Thats more or less right. So i was on capitol hill during the rise of the tea party, many of the other congressional staffers were then and what we saw was a relatively small band of active constituents resist successfully a very popular member of very popular president s agenda and they won sometimes. They actually racked up a lot of wins. We did not agree with their policy agenda, we didnt agree with their sometimes very aggressive sometimes violent tactics but we thought they got the strategies right. A local defensive congressional strategy advocacy implemented with civics 101 tactics. Matt kibbe, the line back in 2009 is that this was grassroots americans rejection of socialism. In fact, that term was used a lot. This was a freedomloving people that didnt want government takeover of health care. How do you explain the incredible reversal of the polling for the aca where its now more popular than ever . First of all, i have to point out how funny it is that the roles have reversed now where democrats are celebrating citizens showing up at town hall meetings. When we were organizing town hall protests it was called astroturf, it was called fake and now those rolls are reversed. I think its great when people show up at town hall meetings. I think people still are very frustrated with obamacare. Its been a disaster for most people and i hope republicans proceed forth and replace it in a way that rand paul says, legalizing choice, legalizing association. I dont buy that people are supportive of the Affordable Care act. They hate it. Its got to go. But, matt, thats just not thats belied by the data. There is a long period of time in which the data said people didnt like it or they were skeptical of it. That data changed recently. Peoples opinion on this have changed as the thought of it being taken away. You think thats fake news . No, i dont think its fake news, i think the polls are going to fluctuate and it is absolutely true that a inplace entitlement is more difficult to fix and unravel and provide something else. I understand that. Republicans need to understand it, too. This is why rand paul says we cant just repeal obamacare, we have to legalize choice and freedom. That point you made about its hard to undo something, status quo bias. And matts point about the reversal of fortunes here. Its so fascinating how much easier it is to mobilize people in opposition than the other way around. So where we find ourselves in the Progressive Movement, i would say, is in many ways the same place where the tea party was eight years ago. We do not have the house, the senate, or the presidency. We dont have the agendasetting power the conservatives have right now. What the Progressive Movement has is the power to respond. Now the tea party very thoughtfully said were not going to outline our own vision for the future, what this conservative policy platform will look like. We understand no is a complete sentence. Now, when they were doing that, when they were doing that, they were doing that to obstruct a president who had a mandate, who was trying to save the economy from the great depression, second time, and was trying to give more Americans Health care. Today when were using that same defensive strategy, i would argue its not about obstruction. Its about protecting the people most likely to be victimized by the agenda being put forward by this president and this congress. Matt, ive watched this switch in terms whereof the energy is. You heard the congressman say, yeah, i had a town hall, it was mostly democrats. Those are the people who are opposed in the same way in 2009. What is it about this deep part of the nature of american politics in this moment that its much easier to mobilize and organize people in resistance . I think there are some differences and, of course, the tea party didnt show up in opposition to Barack Obamas policies until he started proposing policies and this protest actually started on inauguration day. I think thats a difference. I think this is a little more partisan. But i think theres a structural change. Theres a paradigm shift where people have better information, social media, technology, allows for citizens to be more active. So i think the womens march, i think these protests, i think the tea party, i think the ron paul movement, these are examples of the new politics. Its more democratized, its more different. But i have to push back on this idea that thtea party was violent. I think this is one of the flaws of the current protests. I mean, particularly on the day before the inauguration, all the violence, all the broken windows, the burning cars, i think that turns off swing voters and ultimately any social movement has to appeal beyond its base. This isnt just about democrats protesting republicans. Youre trying to impress swing voters, youre trying to attract independents. I have been convinced by the successful efforts that you are part of, matt, that thats not true. What do you think . I think its imperative people embrace nonviolence when theyre expressing their opinions. Its the right thing to do. You shouldnt be spitting on staff or being physically abusive. My wife, who was a congressional staffer, attended town halls in 2010 and did have negative experiences like that with tea party members, but i love hearing that, you know, if the folks in from the tea party can say we dont endorse nonviolence, i think we can say we endorse nonviolence. Great, were all on the same page there. What i just want to sort of close with, here, matt, and i think a key lesson to learn, this president of the United States got a minority of votes in the primary and a minority of votes in the election and is running the country right now and, in fact, the lesson the tea party, i think, matt, is that swing voters dont matter that much. What mattered and what the tea party is able to do is mobilize a core constituency and the key, the skeleton key, to understanding all of american politics in this moment, i think, is who could do that better. Matt kibbe, ezra levin, thank you very much. Up next, new reporting the breaking news tonight. The white house reportedly asked the fbi to publicly refute resent stories about Trump Campaign<\/a> ties to russia. And my exclusive interview with the muslim woman who worked on Donald Trumps<\/a> National Security<\/a> council only to quit after eight days. When all in starts right now. Good evening from new york, im chris hayes. The man dubbed the great manipulator chief strategist steve bannon who some refer to as president bannon came out from behind the curtain to rally the faithful at the conservative Political Action<\/a> conference. Bannon appearing on stage with white house chief of staff Reince Priebus<\/a> where he took a victory lap at the Election Results<\/a> and lashed out at the media which bannon says opposes President Trump<\/a>s economic nationalist agenda. As Economic Conditions<\/a> get better, as more jobs get better, theyll continue to fight. If you think theyll give you your country back without a fight, you are sadly mistaken. [ applause ] everyday it is going to be a fight and that is what im proudest about donald trump. All the opportunities he had to waver off this, all the people who came to him and said moderate, everyday in the oval office he tells reince and i i committed this to the American People<\/a>, i promised this when i ran and im going to deliver on this. Bannon offered that message not really to the American People<\/a> at large but to a crowd of conservative activists eager to chant trumps name. It was what you might call a safe space for him. It might well be time for bannon to get out of the d. C. Bubble. A very different message is being expressed at republican town halls across the country by an American Public<\/a> that, lets be clear, favored trumps opponent by nearly three million votes in. Fargo, north dakota, today, an overflow crowd crammed into a coffee shop to press representative kevin cramer with questions on the attempt to feel the Affordable Care<\/a> act. Working people, for example, their premiums went up about 47 4,300 per year. Show your source show us your source you cant make up the facts. In louisiana, senator bill cassidy asked by a boisterous crowd about President Trump<\/a>s links to russia. Before we can have anything in this country, we need to make sure that our president is not a puppet or vladimir putin. [ cheers and applause ] in charles city, iowa, a woman pressing senator Chuck Grassley<\/a> on whether he truly represents his constituents in asking what they told his office about trumps cabinet nominees. Did you have more pros or more cons in support of betsy devos . More cons. In the case of Jeff Sessions<\/a> for attorney general, did you have more pros or more cons . More more cons. In the case of scott pruitt for epa, did you have more pros or more cons . More cons. In the case of steve bannon as a principal member i can give you an i can make it easy for you. It eventually got to a point where people called up and they said were against every one of trumps nominees. In northwest arkansas, a woman asking tom cotton to do something to get President Trump<\/a> to release his tax returns. What would you do to help bring that about in congress to show this mans tax returns . The way we determine who our commanderinchief in this country is is through elections. And we just had an election. [ audience reacts ] this is a hotly contested issue during the election. And donald trump still won. The former president showed his birth certificate, my god. [ crowd chanting tax returns ] many republicans are simply refusing to hold town halls, senator marco rubio of florida caught on camera at a hospital today walking away while asked why he isnt meeting his constituents. Are you going to have a town hall . Theres a constituent town hall today. We need to hear from you, senator. Texas senator ted cruz who hasnt held a town hall claimed town hall anger isnt about him anyway. Theyre filled with rage. Not at republicans, not even at trump. Theyre filled with rage at the American People<\/a>, at the voters, for daring to elect a republican president , a republican majority in both houses. Weird, theyre not really yelling at other voters so much at these things but perhaps no one had a more offensive reaction than representative Louis Gohmert<\/a> of texas who invoked Gabrielle Giffords<\/a> as an excuse for not holding a town hall saying the house sergeant at arms advised us after former congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords<\/a> was shot at a public appearance that civilian attendees at congressional Public Events<\/a> stand the most chance of being harmed or killed, just as happened there. That prompted this response from giffords herself to the politicians who have abandoned their civic obligations i say this have some courage, face your constituents, hold town halls. The resistance to President Trump<\/a> and the gop agenda in the streets and town hall seems to be having an affect on the legislative issue before the country right now. The republican effort to repeal the Affordable Care<\/a> act which so far has stalled a bit in congress. In a quinnipiac polling on january 12, 48 of americans supported repeal. A slim plurality. In the knew quinnipiac poll, just 43 say they want repeal while 54 want the law to remain. At cpac, Sam Brownback<\/a> of kansas, arguably the most conservative governor in the country, said Congress Needs<\/a> to find a way to, and im quoting here people to stay on the obamacare Medicaid Expansion<\/a>. Former House Speaker<\/a> john boehner, remember him, speaking in florida today said republicans ultimately arent going to repeal and replace obamacare after all. I should havent called it repeal and replace, thats not whats going to happen. Theyre basically going to fix the flaws and put a more conservative box around it. Joining me now, republican congressman Leonard Lance<\/a> of new jersey who last night hosted a very contentious town hall of his own. Isnt there something beautifully american about voters yelling at their elected representatives . It happens all the time and i believe in a beautiful america, chris. Do you enjoy them . I enjoyed yesterdays town hall meeting. I so enjoyed it that im doing another one saturday morning, chris. I want to show, just to give a flavor of what these look like for you. Heres someone asking you about impeachment at a town hall. Take a listen. Do you support impeachment . [ cheers and applause ] now is the time to put country before party. I feel betrayed, all of us feel betrayed because you have flipflopped on your position on the environment. What is your position . Take a position. What do you say to your colleagues like Louis Gohmert<\/a> who said theres a safety concern in having these. We had Police Presence<\/a> last night and felt perfectly comfortable. Let me say i dont advise other members of congress as to what they should do in their districts but i try to lead by example, chris, and ive always had town hall meetings. Ive had 40 of them, this is my 41st and i will have my 42nd saturday morning. Are they affecting the way you think about the issues . They certainly are making me examine the issues and i want to hear from all constituents, not only republicans and independents but also democrats and at last nights town hall meeting it was overwhelmingly democratic members of the constituency i serve and i try to serve everybody, even those who may not have voted for me. Let me ask you, youve been in Congress Since<\/a> 2009. How many times have you voted for Obamacare Repeal<\/a> . Quite a few. 20, 30, somewhere around that . Im sure more than that. Are you going to repeal obamacare . I think were going to repair it. Thats the word i use. I think were going to retain the Medicaid Expansion<\/a>. Im not sure its going to be at 90 federal reimbursement. Wait a second, though. You just told me two seconds ago you voted upwards two or three dozen times to repeal obamacare. Thats correct. The president ran on repealing obamacare. Paul ryan pledged to repeal obamacare. Mitch mcconnell pledged to repeal obamacare. Republicans have been telling the country for eight years were going to repeal obamacare. Youre telling me they are not going to repeal obamacare . I ran on repeal and replace. I never ran on repeal alone and indicated to my constituency that i do not favor the status quo that existed before obamacare came into what is repair im hearing repair. We had repeal, then we had repeal and replace, now we have repair that parachuted into the discourse. Thats different than repeal and replace, right . Repair means keep the fundamental framework as john boehner said. I think this is a matter of semantics but i think repair is repeal and replace. Its not just repeal, it has to be replaced as well. And it seems to me that were going to try to keep the Medicaid Expansion<\/a> to the greatest extent possible. Adds you know, its not nationwide. What about things like getting rid of lifetime caps . People staying on their coverage until 26 . We favor having young people stay on parents policies. Ban on preexisting conditions . Absolutely. Okay, how do you score that out . This is the thing i keep running into with every republican i talk to. They say yes, well keep the popular parts, get rid of the unpopular parts, the parts we dont like. But those two things are linked in a deep policy way in terms of how the thing functions together. Thats why we want to make sure people stay on policies, have the opportunity to have policies. The market is collapsing and Insurance Companies<\/a> are leaving the market in the obamacare exchanges. Is that happening in new jersey . Its collapsing . You would describe it as collapsing in new jersey . I would say the alternative policies are quite limited and theyre not the numbers that they were, there were originally five and now there are two. The president promised lower deductibles, is that a promise you guys are going to keep . Lower deductibles, i certainly hope theyre lower than they are now. As you know they have increased and the average family has had policies increase by 5,000. Can you promise that youll deliver on lower deductibles for americans . I dont make promises that i cant keep so we will see. But i certainly do not overpromise the way president obama said that average family policies would decrease by 2, 500. Has this president overpromised . He has said hes going to replace it and he has said it might take a year or into 2018. I think hes been very responsible in that regard. Congressman, come by any time. Nice to see you. Thank you. Im joined by matt kibbe, the former head of one of the Tea Party Organization<\/a> freedom works, current president of the libertarian Nonprofit Free<\/a> the people and ezra levin, cofounder of the grassroots trump resistance Political Organization<\/a> indivisible. Maybe ill start with you, ezra. You guys indivisible is a fascinating phenomenon for me. Its folks who lived through the tea party uprising as staffers for democratic members of congress, saw how it worked and are putting out their accrued wisdom now to folks on the other side. Thats more or less right. So i was on capitol hill during the rise of the tea party, many of the other congressional staffers were then and what we saw was a relatively small band of active constituents resist successfully a very popular member of very popular president s agenda and they won sometimes. They actually racked up a lot of wins. We did not agree with their policy agenda, we didnt agree with their sometimes very aggressive sometimes violent tactics but we thought they got the strategies right. A local defensive congressional strategy advocacy implemented with civics 101 tactics. Matt kibbe, the line back in 2009 is that this was grassroots americans rejection of socialism. In fact, that term was used a lot. This was a freedomloving people that didnt want government takeover of health care. How do you explain the incredible reversal of the polling for the aca where its now more popular than ever . First of all, i have to point out how funny it is that the roles have reversed now where democrats are celebrating citizens showing up at town hall meetings. When we were organizing town hall protests it was called astroturf, it was called fake and now those rolls are reversed. I think its great when people show up at town hall meetings. I think people still are very frustrated with obamacare. Its been a disaster for most people and i hope republicans proceed forth and replace it in a way that rand paul says, legalizing choice, legalizing association. I dont buy that people are supportive of the Affordable Care<\/a> act. They hate it. Its got to go. But, matt, thats just not thats belied by the data. There is a long period of time in which the data said people didnt like it or they were skeptical of it. That data changed recently. Peoples opinion on this have changed as the thought of it being taken away. You think thats fake news . No, i dont think its fake news, i think the polls are going to fluctuate and it is absolutely true that a inplace entitlement is more difficult to fix and unravel and provide something else. I understand that. Republicans need to understand it, too. This is why rand paul says we cant just repeal obamacare, we have to legalize choice and freedom. That point you made about its hard to undo something, status quo bias. And matts point about the reversal of fortunes here. Its so fascinating how much easier it is to mobilize people in opposition than the other way around. So where we find ourselves in the Progressive Movement<\/a>, i would say, is in many ways the same place where the tea party was eight years ago. We do not have the house, the senate, or the presidency. We dont have the agendasetting power the conservatives have right now. What the Progressive Movement<\/a> has is the power to respond. Now the tea party very thoughtfully said were not going to outline our own vision for the future, what this conservative policy platform will look like. We understand no is a complete sentence. Now, when they were doing that, when they were doing that, they were doing that to obstruct a president who had a mandate, who was trying to save the economy from the great depression, second time, and was trying to give more Americans Health<\/a> care. Today when were using that same defensive strategy, i would argue its not about obstruction. Its about protecting the people most likely to be victimized by the agenda being put forward by this president and this congress. Matt, ive watched this switch in terms whereof the energy is. You heard the congressman say, yeah, i had a town hall, it was mostly democrats. Those are the people who are opposed in the same way in 2009. What is it about this deep part of the nature of american politics in this moment that its much easier to mobilize and organize people in resistance . I think there are some differences and, of course, the tea party didnt show up in opposition to Barack Obamas<\/a> policies until he started proposing policies and this protest actually started on inauguration day. I think thats a difference. I think this is a little more partisan. But i think theres a structural change. Theres a paradigm shift where people have better information, social media, technology, allows for citizens to be more active. So i think the womens march, i think these protests, i think the tea party, i think the ron paul movement, these are examples of the new politics. Its more democratized, its more different. But i have to push back on this idea that thtea party was violent. I think this is one of the flaws of the current protests. I mean, particularly on the day before the inauguration, all the violence, all the broken windows, the burning cars, i think that turns off swing voters and ultimately any social movement has to appeal beyond its base. This isnt just about democrats protesting republicans. Youre trying to impress swing voters, youre trying to attract independents. I have been convinced by the successful efforts that you are part of, matt, that thats not true. What do you think . I think its imperative people embrace nonviolence when theyre expressing their opinions. Its the right thing to do. You shouldnt be spitting on staff or being physically abusive. My wife, who was a congressional staffer, attended town halls in 2010 and did have negative experiences like that with tea party members, but i love hearing that, you know, if the folks in from the tea party can say we dont endorse nonviolence, i think we can say we endorse nonviolence. Great, were all on the same page there. What i just want to sort of close with, here, matt, and i think a key lesson to learn, this president of the United States<\/a> got a minority of votes in the primary and a minority of votes in the election and is running the country right now and, in fact, the lesson the tea party, i think, matt, is that swing voters dont matter that much. What mattered and what the tea party is able to do is mobilize a core constituency and the key, the skeleton key, to understanding all of american politics in this moment, i think, is who could do that better. Matt kibbe, ezra levin, thank you very much. Up next, new reporting the breaking news tonight. The white house reportedly asked the fbi to publicly refute resent stories about President Trump<\/a> and russia. Reince priebus asked the fbi to knock down the stories and fbi director james comey rejected that request. The fbi says they wont comment on that story either way but a Government Official<\/a> tells nbc news that a white house official ask Andrew Mccabe<\/a> in a hallway meeting of the white house if the fbi could knock down aspects of the report. The official says mccabe declined to discuss the case in any way with the official. This comes days after white house chief of staff Reince Priebus<\/a> told our own chuck todd hed spoken to the fbi about the times report. I know what the intelligence committees in the house and senate were told by the fbi. I know what they were told by the fbi because ive talked to the fbi. I know what theyre saying. I wouldnt be on your show right now telling you that weve been assured that theres nothing to the New York Times<\/a> story if i wasnt assured and by the way, if i didnt actually have clearance to make this comment. Im not a sloppy guy. Joining me now, matt miller, former aide to attorney general eric holder and former Justice Department<\/a> spoke person. Matt, so, the white house, you know, chief of staff happens to have a conversation with the deputy of comey about this story, whats the big deal . Why is that so bad . Its really bad. It violates the rule between the white house and department of justice and fbi. When the fbi is conducting a criminal investigation, especially when theyre conducting a criminal investigation into the president s campaign associates, potentially in the president himself depending where this investigation goes, you can have no way have any contact with the fbi about that information and for priebus to pull mccain aside and ask him to talk to the press and knock down reports and then when he didnt get the answer he wanted he then called mccabe and called comey to followup. Thats not a request. Thats political pressure from the white house and it crosses every line about whats appropriate for white house behavior. What would have happened when you were at doj if senator menendez, who is under indictment, a democratic senator indicted by the fbi, if by federal prosecutors, if the chief of staff, if Denis Mcdonough<\/a> called up eric holder and said lets talk about the senator menendez thing. That would be a massive massive cataclysmic scandal, right . Its a massive scandal that would lead to the resignation of the chief of staff. Nothing short of that because eric holder would have picked up the phone and called the white House Counsel<\/a> and told the white House Counsel<\/a> i just got this call, its absolutely inappropriate, it crosses every line and we wont stand for it at the department of justice. Its one of the questions that still is outstanding here. Where is Jeff Sessions<\/a> . What is he doing in all this . Remember, Jeff Sessions<\/a> was also a member of this campaign that is under investigation. He ought to be recused from it. The departments rules are very clear about it. He hasnt recused and he for all we know is right in the middle of this, too. Hes probably being briefed on the investigation. I just wanted to what you just said. Do you think if Reince Priebus<\/a> did what is being reported that he should resign . Yeah, he has to go. This is a white house karl rove in the Bush Administration<\/a> suggested some u. S. Attorneys be replaced. He did it through proper channels, talked to the white House Counsel<\/a> about it and it was a huge scandal that led to the attorney general being replaced. For Reince Priebus<\/a> to go ten steps further and ask the fbi himself, he has to go. He has to answer questions from the press, talk to congress, explain what he talked about, what he told them. And we have to remember what he said, the clip you just showed, he said he was briefed by the fbi. If thats true its a question for the fbi. Why were they briefing the white house on an investigation into the president s campaign . That in itself would be inappropriate. I want to be clear because this seems an important thing for folks to understand. Everything youre talking about is guiding by essentially norms. Theres departmental policy on this. The constitution theres nothing that clear, red letter that says you cant do this, you cant do that we have evolved traditions that you dont want the white house micromanaging the investigations of the investigatory arm of the government but theres nothing like legally saying you cant. Thats right. Its not the constitution, its not in law, its not in regulation. The thing that keeps us from being a Banana Republic<\/a> where the white house dictates or kills investigations are norms. Rules that long stood that the department of justice acts independently. Its the only Cabinet Agency<\/a> that has a measure of independence from the white house. Its because these investigations need to be sacrosanct and walled often from any political pressure. Were barely a month in and priebus has violated that standard. Its another just one in the latest piece. Piece after piece of evidence of why this investigation needs to be taken out of the chain of command out of Jeff Sessions<\/a> hands and put into a special prosecutor where it can be independent, someone that can never, ever talk to anyone at the white house from Reince Priebus<\/a> on down. And are you i mean i guess i know the answer to this but just to be clear, there is reporting suggesting there is multiple investigations or threads to an investigation to whats going on here. I know as a journalist id like to know the truth in which ever direction it came down. If this proves to be nothing i would like to know that. I assume everyone would like to know that. Are you confident that investigation can be preserved, the integrity of it can be preserved under these conditions. Absolutely not. When you have the white house tampering with it, absolutely not. When you have an attorney general who still officially oversee this is investigation, who is a member of the campaign thats a subject of investigation, you cant have that assurance. And by the way, as much as its important that we have an independent prosecutor to look at that, thats an imperfect solution, too, because remember a prosecutor, theyre looking to bring criminal charges which have the highest possible standard of proof. There may be real questions of impropriety, of inappropriate behavior during the campaign that are very important for citizens in a democracy to know that would never come out in a criminal investigation. I think on top of that you need to have a bipartisan 9 11style commission that will look at this, have public testimony, be able to subpoena witnesses and be able to tell the American Public<\/a>, you know, either this happened or it didnt. If it didnt, the president ought to want people to know that because until they do, everything in his administration is under question. Matt miller, thank you for your time tonight. Really appreciate it. Thank you. Joining me now, a democrat who introduced a resolution of inquiry in congress which well explain in a moment. Congressman jerry nadler of new york. You heard matt miller who worked at the doj and hes an Obama Administration<\/a> official so we know where hes coming from in a partisan sense but he saying basically you cannot trust the integrity of the investigation at doj. You have essentially tried to move things in a house that has been very resistant to it. Theres been some Senate Republicans<\/a> who have said, yes, were open to an investigation, Senate Intelligence<\/a> committee, maybe something more than that. You introduced whats called a resolution of inquiry into the house to force leaderships hands, the republicans, to do what . The resolution of inquiry demands that the Justice Department<\/a> give to the congress certain information, basically any documents relating to criminal or counterintelligence investigations relating to the president or various named individuals. So the resolution would call for those to be turned over to congress from the doj . Turned over to congress which would mean can you do that . Sure. If the resolution of inquiry would demand that anything regarding a counterintelligence investigation, anything involving an investment by any Foreign Government<\/a> in the trump businesses and various other things be turned over to congress. This is the only way, the resolution of inquiry must be voted on. And we just heard today it will be debated and voted on in the Judiciary Committee<\/a> on tuesday. The same day as the joint session so theyre trying to bury it on a busy news day. On a busy news day theyve shepherded the Judiciary Committee<\/a> where the republicans will vote against it . Well, maybe there are a couple republicans on the Judiciary Committee<\/a> who are not total lackeys who will do their job. Its the job of the juke to be Judiciary Committee<\/a> to be the first line of defense for the constitutional liberty and the constitution and here youve got reporting by the New York Times<\/a>, the washington post, et cetera, of all kinds of things, among others of which you were just referring to is the report that we know the russians tried to influence the election. We know they did it in illegal ways, by hacking the dnc and Hillary Clintons<\/a> campaign. We have reports that the high Trump Campaign<\/a> officials were in Constant Contact<\/a> with intelligence agencies. Intelligence officials, Senior Intelligence<\/a> officials. Russian intelligence officials during the campaign. That leads to suspicion that they were involved and maybe trump was involved in collusion with a foreign power to try to rig an election. We should be clear, none of that has been established. None of that has been established but it has to be investigated because if it turns out to be true, that would be the most serious consequences. If it turns out not to be true, its something else. We must know and we must have a serious and nonpartisan investigation and the only way at the moment because we have written letters, ive written letters to the chairman of the committee to the speaker of the house, have an investigation, never replied to. They dont even write you back . They dont even write me back. That seems uncollegial. It is uncollegial, but so what. This is the only way members of the house have to force a debate and vote. We will get a debate and vote in committee on tuesday. They might kill it there. If it goes to the floor if they dont have that debate and vote in committee it must be voted on in the floor. So its got to get votes somewhere . Thats the power of a resolution of inquiry. And it forces the republicans to vote. Are they going to try to abet a coverup of all these possible allegations or are they going to do their job . So i want to get before you go, i want to get your thoughts on this new reporting which suggests the chief of staff of the white house had conversations with someone at the fbi basically saying can you knock this down . Can you come out and Say Something<\/a> . Or, according to this reporting again, this is someone else reporting, or can you at least on background go talk to reporters about it. The chief of staff reached out to the director of the fbi about this, whats your reaction . Its highly improper. Its evidence of why sessions must recuse himself or should recuse himself. The norms are that he should. Maybe he wont. But it shows why we must have at the minimum the release of all this information. And thats why the committee the resolution of inquiry is crucial if only to protect the country against this kind of coverup. All right, congressman jerry nadler, thank you for your time. Appreciate it, sir. Coming up, a former white house staffers firsthand account of being a Muslim American<\/a> woman in President Trump<\/a>s white house. Why she quit after just eight days. She joins me next. Let it sink in. Shouldnt we say we have the lowest price . Nope, badda book. Badda boom. Have you ever stayed with Choice Hotels<\/a> . Like at a comfort inn . Yep. Free waffles, cant go wrong. I like it. Promote that guy. Get the lowest price on our rooms, guaranteed. When you book direct at choicehotels. Com. Book now. Donald j. Trump is calling for a total and complete shut down of muslims entering the United States<\/a> until our countrys representatives can figure out what the hell is going on. In december, when donald trump called for a ban on muslims entering this country, when then Campaign Manager<\/a> Corey Lewandowski<\/a> said trumps proposed ban would apply to everybody including muslims seeking immigration visas as well as tourists seeking to enter the country, rumana ahmed was the only hijabi wearing woman born in the white house. Born to bangladeshi immigrants, ahmed joined the Obama Administration<\/a> in 2011 and after graduating from George Washington<\/a> university, a year later she served as a liaison to american muslims on doe midwest irk issues such as health care. In 2014, she was hired as a Senior Adviser<\/a> at the National Security<\/a> council where for two and a half years she worked down the hall for the situation room. After the election, she debated whether she should quit citing incoming National Security<\/a> adviser and now departed National Security<\/a> advisers comment that fear of muslims is rational. She lasted eight days. Joining me now is rumana ahmed. Tell me why you decided to stay in the first place . I decided to stay because going back while i was in college just a few years ago i actually was never interested in politics. I wasnt interested in government and didnt think that you could have an impact. The only reason why i applied at the time is because president obamas message of hope and change connected to me. I thought it was a great opportunity to apply for it. However every step of the way, starting from the office of president ial correspondence, all of my doubts about the impact that government had was proven wrong and starting from if office of president ial correspondence where the voices of americans matter to the extent that a letter could even influence and drive a policy such as health care, the going to the office of Public Engagement<\/a> making sure americans understood the impact of every policy we were rolling out and making sure they were a part of that process. Then going over to the National Security<\/a> council. You know, every step of the way what has driven me is not politics because i never cared for it and i dont care for it still but the fact that i was able to have an impact on what i cared about which was protecting many i country and promoting its best interests and under president obama i always had and was given the space to have a voice even when i had some disagreements. And so the reason why i stayed was because, you know, i felt a responsibility to at least try to be able to reach out and continue some of the efforts that we worked on, whether it was engagements with the Muslim American<\/a> community or efforts on cuba and laos and health care and i knew this administration was coming with a different view and perspective. But if anything my hope was that the dust would settle with politics once the new administration comes in as it typically does and it would start to be dealing with reality on a day to day basis which is the impact it has on peoples lives and the role and function of government is to be of the people, by the people, for the people. So thats what my hope was and let me ask you this. So you sort of had this faith that you could do something there, you could stay. Ultimately it was the executive order on the muslim ban, or the restriction from the muslim majority countries that was a breaking point for you. You saw this and said i cant be associated with this . It was definitely one of the breaking points. I happen to be a muslim at the white house which is why, yes, the executive order banning travel of muslims from seven muslim majority countries, it impacted me in a different way which was one of the things that led me to decide i have to get out of here and especially just seeing internally how many of us didnt have a voice. The processes that once existed didnt really exist anymore but more importantly, you know, just being able to play any kind of role just wasnt a possibility anymore. Let me ask you this, though. Theres a theory that you see from folks that are part of the Trump Administration<\/a> that says theres a holdover column in the National Security<\/a> apparatus that is leaking, that is sabotaging this president. Are you an example of that, ultimately . Are there more people laboring there who are obama people laboring in this white house and who dont believe in its agenda . I dont think so. There are people who care about the issues and care about National Security<\/a>. Thats being threatened right now. Everything that happened in the last few weeks may be showcased to protect our National Security<\/a> but in fact its threatening our National Security<\/a> and undermining the tenets of our democracy. And a lot of the people who are staying there are doing their best to maintain those security measures just because these quick rollouts were taking place without the details being thought through or discussed so a lot of people who have the expertise and experience are the ones who are trying to make sure well, can we do our best to message this the right way . And are trying to maintain those basic functions and purposes of the white house and of government to make sure that were messaging it the best way possible so people understand how it impacts them. But thats the daily struggle, i think, for a lot of the people who are still there and trying to play out what our responsibility is to the American People<\/a>. Ramada ahmed, thanks for joining me, appreciate it. Thank you. Still ahead, Reince Priebus<\/a> and steve bannon made a joint appearance calling for the deconstruction of the administrative state. Plus President Trump<\/a> provides a crucial fact check of his own golfing prowess in tonights thing 1 thing 2 right after this break. My sweethearts gone sayonara. This scarf all thats left to remem. What she washed this like a month ago the long lasting scent of gain flings thing 1 tonight, donald trump rarely looks as confident and comfortable in his presidency as he did this morning when he met with dozens of manufacturing ceos at the white house. Well, well go around the room and well talk privately without the press and well figure out how to bring many, many millions of jobs more become to the United States<\/a> okay . Chemical weapon, go ahead. Thank you, mr. President , ken frazier from merck. Thank you, mr. President , mark fields, ceo of ford motor company. Thank you, mr. President , denice morrisson from campbells soup company. Good soup. Thank you. That was just the start. By the time the introductions made it halfway around the room trump moved on from campbells being good to one of his favorite topics, himself. Thats thing 2 in 60 seconds. It was ostensibly the meeting of the president and the top ceos in the country to talk about job growth and manufacturing. But when the president is trump, this is what happens. Mr. President , good to see you again. Hi, jeff. Great to be here. Look forward to working with you. Jeff watched me make a hole in one. Can you believe that . Should you tell that story . We were trying to talk President Trump<\/a> into doing the apprentice. That was my assignment when we owned nbc. President trump goes up to a par 3 on his course, he looks at the three of us and says you realize, of course, im the richest golfer in the world. Thats a comment. Then gets a hole in one. [ laughter ] i have to say, you know, ive seen the magic before. I said i was the best golfer of all the rich people, to be exact. And then i got a hole in one. Thats what you said. So it was sort of cool. Thank you, thank you very much. Today steve bannon made a triumphant appearance at cpac, the conservative conference he used to counterprogram himself as the head of breitbart with the event he called uninvited. Now he made the message perfectly clear, trump is conservatism, conservatism is trump. Trump is the gop. The gop, in bannons image, a breitbart presidency. President trump brought together the party and the conservative movement and ive got to tell you, if the party and the conservative movement are together, similar to steve and i, it cant be stopped . And the Mainstream Media<\/a> better understand something, all of those promises are going to be implemented. If you look at these cabinet appointees, they were selected for a reason and that is the deconstruction of the way the Progressive Left<\/a> runs is if they cant get it passed theyre going to put in some regulation in an agency. Thats all going to be deconstructed. There are many things hitting the president s ear and desk everyday. Different things that come to the president that want to move him off of his agenda and steve is very consistent and very loyal to the agenda and is a presence that i think is very important to have in the white house. They took a constituency thats basically 40 of the country, maybe a little more, and theyre governing with it. The consequences and limits of that, next. Ive said theres a new ive said theres a new political order being formed out of this. Its still being formed but if you look at the wide degree of opinions in this room, whether youre a populist, a libertarian, an economic nationalist, we have wide and sometimes divergent opinions but i think the center core of what we believe that were a nation with an economy, not an economy just in some global marketplace with open borders but we are a nation with a culture and a and a reason for being. And i think thats what unites us. Thats whats going to unite this movement going forward. Joining me now, ben howe, senior contributing editor at red state, someone who had a lot of experience in the conservative movement, not a big fan of trump, but you were there today as i understand it. The takeaway, i guess, is that trump and bannon and breitbart have essentially eaten the conservative movement in the republican party. Is that your feeling . Oh, yeah. And i definitely think thats what they were they believe this was their moment of total domination in a lot of ways it has been. They had a little stumbling block with the milo incident that happened right as the cpac was about to unfold but other than that, yes. They dominate the movement. They dominate the party. They dominate the agenda. And they dominate cpac. You know, i think what do you say to the argument there are people i know, liberals particularly, critics of the right who say, yeah, no kidding, this is the guy that got invited to cpac in 2011, when he was running around fomenting a racist Conspiracy Theory<\/a> about the illegitimacy of the president from a constitutional perspective, that he was born abroad, that he was a foreigner and gotten a invitation to cpac and this is what its always been, now essentially the mask is dropped. Well, theres been a lot of argument about whether or not trump was sort of the introduction of that sort of guest, that milo you know, when i looked at what milo yiannopoulos, what he brought to the table, i didnt see that much difference than what i objected from him than what i object from trump, what ive objected to with ann coulter. We warned in 2011 and 2012, we said this guy is going to become a part of the movement we cant stop if you keep legitimizing him. That ended up being true so in that sense i guess youre right. We just keep hoping that whats going to happen is Something Different<\/a> but it seems that entertainment and eyeballs and, you know, News Coverage<\/a> and controversy is winning the day with the acu. But it also seems something else, right . Like nationalism. Right. The word i was reminded of the infamous quote when someone says culture i reach for my gun. When steve bannon said culture, the way he hit culture, he paused for a second and said culture, that word does a lot of work. And the idea that were a nation with a culture and nationalism, really nationalism as a Unifying Force<\/a> of what makes a conservative america in the year 2017. What do you think of that . Well, i think that theyre trying to avoid certain words right now like specifically nationalism, for instance, they may not want to say as much, although bannon is less likely to be afraid to say that. You saw today when Richard Spencer<\/a> showed up at cpac and they tried to pretend the altright was this coopting of a reasonable movement and that it wasnt always this way and when we supported it before it was a great thing, its not this white supremacist nationalist movement. This is completely inaccurate in terms of history. It was 2010 when Richard Spencer<\/a> declared it the altright so when steve bannon and others use these dog whistle words, culture as much as i believe western culture is something i embrace and love and want emulated, i dont think theyre just talking about western culture as the way you and i might talk about it. In a lot of ways they mean white culture and i think thats them reminding the altright, hey, were still on your team. And i wonder how much this nationalism, what that looks like as an agenda. Were seeing it, right . Were seeing it in terms of the immigration executive orders. Its being put into practice. But what theres a real question about what that can deliver for people and what you can build out of that as some sort of intellectual artifice, if thats the project. Well, i think that ultimately its going to all fall flat. I mean, part of the problem with the way theyre approaching everything right now is theyre not concerned about whether or not, as you pointed out, 40 is what they have won and so theyre more concerned about what that 40 likes. They dont care if the other 60 has a problem with it. Over the next four years as they push these agendas and people dont like them and they dont care nobody likes them its going to get undone in the very next election. Well see if gravity exists. Ben howe, thank you. Appreciate it. Thats all in for this evening, the Rachel Maddow<\/a> show starts right now. Good evening, rachel. Good evening, rachel. Good evening, chris, thank you my friend. You bet. Thanks to you for joining us this hour. When they brought articles of impeachment against Richard Nixon<\/a> in 1974, there were three filed against him, one was famously for abuse of power, one was for contempt of congress, but the first one, the first one they filed, the first one they voted on was for obstruction of justice. One of the things that went haywire in watergate was that after, you know, the initial break in, after that little tip of the iceberg was exposed, that Something Weird<\/a> and potentially criminal was going on in washington politics, one of the things that went haywire after that initial petty crime is that the president and his accomplices ended up trying to stop the investigation. They tried to stop the criminal investigation into what had happened. When they say about watergate the coverup was worse than the crime, this is what thats about. 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