Transcripts For MSNBCW All In With Chris Hayes 20170131 : co

Donald trump tonight has fired the interim attorney general because of her ruling earlier this evening that the Justice Department would not defend the Trump Administrations travel ban that was in that executive order. Sally yates who served under president obama and was asked to stay on in the interim sent a memo to Justice Department lawyers ordering them not to defend trumps order to block refugees and citizens from seven mostly muslim countries. That memo said in part, my responsibility is to ensure that the position of the department of justice is not only legally defensible, but is informed by our best view of what the law is after consideration of all the facts. That memo tonight led to her dismissal. The white house just put out a statement saying, the acting attorney general sally yates has betrayed the department of justice by refusing to enforce a legal order designed to protect the citizens of the United States. Miss yates is an Obama Administration appointee who is weak on borders and very weak on illegal immigration. The new acting attorney general is dana boente who was serving as u. S. Attorney for the Eastern District of virginia. And just tonight, another development. We know not what to make of it involving the head of immigration and customs enforcement. As you saw briefly our panel is here ready to weigh in on our breaking news. First we start with nbc White House Correspondent Kristen Welker who joins us by telephone. Kristen, what more have you been able to add to the record tonight . Well, brian, fastmoving developments tonight. Youre right. This replacement of sally yates came after a really bitter back and forth. She said that she directed doj not to uphold the president s travel ban saying that she wasnt clear that it was going to be lawful and then the news came that President Trump was, in fact, replacing her with dana boente. And we really had fireworks ever since then on both sides. Republicans and democrats weighing in really using it as a chance to express their feelings about this immigration order. Chuck schumer, for example, saying the a. G. Should pledge fidelity to the law and the constitution, not the white house. The fact that this administration doesnt understand that is chilling and then this from ted cruz just moments ago, it is fitting and sad that the very last act of the obama doj is for the acting a. G. To defy the newly elected potus. So both sides pouncing in that regard and sort of using it to hammer home their political points, bullet here points. But heres one of the big takeaways, brian. Mrs. Yates because she was the top Senate Confirmed official at the department of justice, has the authorization to sign Foreign Surveillance warrants which is a critical function to the doj and its not clear that dana boente has that same authorization. He was signed in tonight. He was sworn in tonight at 9 00 p. M. , we are told, so hes official. Again, because he doesnt come with that senate confirmation, he doesnt have that ability to authorize and to sign Foreign Surveillance warrants. So thats a concern when it comes to National Security. Thats going to put the pressure on the confirmation hearings of senator sessions. Hes supposed to have a Committee Vote tomorrow. And i think just looking forward to that vote, its really going to become more of a symbol of this incredibly controversial immigration order and, brian, obviously the fallout of that continues and we saw more protests tonight with opponents saying that its not lawful and that, you know, its effectively a muslim ban by another name and the Trump Administration denying that vigorously, but, again, it all came to a head with this replacement of sally yates tonight. And kristen, when we have you, the dismissal tonight of the head of i. C. E. , the more muscular title for immigration and customs enforcement, obviously new president s name new department heads. Was this timed or scheduled or sudden . So those are the questions that were trying to answer, brian. Heres what i can tell you. I have a number of calls and emails out trying to determine that. The tone of this announcement was incredibly different. It didnt come with an explanation unlike the replacement of sally yates, this was very matter of fact. That the administration is, in fact, replacing daniel rusdale with thomas homan, someone who served as executive associate director of i. C. E. And hes a 33year veteran of law enforcement. He has 30 years of immigration experience according to the statement that was put out by the Trump Administration. So what we can tell you at this hour is that the tone of this announcement, very different, and this may just be about the president wanting to bring in his own people, but, again, that official announcement didnt come with any explanation for why he was making this decision. Of course, it comes on the nights on a night when there has been a lot of twists and turns and so were still tracking this and trying to get to the bottom of exactly what happened. White house correspondent Kristen Welker at the end of a long day. They seem to bleed into the next day these days. Kristen, thank you for joining us by telephone. Also with us, live by telephone, is akeel reid omar, a law professor and constitutional scholar at yale university. His experience includes clerking for Supreme Court Justice Breyer and professor, ive heard it proffered tonight that the acting attorney general needlessly left out legal underpinnings from her opinion in saying the Justice Department wouldnt enforce this refugee ban. Is there anything else she could have said in that document or was she destined for dismissal . Well, the constitution in the end vests the executive power of the United States in the president. If people within the executive branch feel that in good faith they cant defend the president s policies, they have a freedom of speech, they can articulate their view and at the end of the day, they serve at the president s pleasure and he can fire them. And she chose to very dramatically express her disagreement. There are, i think, probably other elements within the Justice Department that may be more willing to try to defend the legality of the trump order. Ive heard reports that the president believes the office of Legal Counsel has supports certain elements of the executive order that was issued. She this is one aspect basically of the transition. The new attorney general isnt yet in place. He hasnt been confirmed. Jeff sessions. Presumably, that will happen very quickly and personally, i actually supported the Obama Administration but you had an election and its out with the old and in with the new. And this is just some particular drama because of the details of the transition. Jeff sessions isnt yet fully in place, so we have a few holdover officials and the Obama Administration excuse me, the Trump Administration, as promised, wants to hit the ground running with a whole bunch of new policies. They believe they were elected on a change mandate and theyre not even waiting until the whole team is in place before moving forward. And this is a very dramatic little episode but its one element of just the larger drama of profound transition from obama to trump. Professor akhil reed omar, yale university, thank you very much for being with us tonight. Again, this is all unfolding. Lets formally and officially bring in our panel, shall we . Former White House Communications director, campaign veteran and msnbc political analyst, Nicolle Wallace. We also welcome ed rollins tonight, hes what you call a political veteran, having worked for, oh, four president s, chief among them ronald reagan, where he served as deputy chief of staff and political director, most recently ran a prodonald trump Political Action committee. And jeremy bash is back with us, former chief of staff at cia and pentagon. Nicolle, youve been absent for several days. Oh, no. You get to lead us off. What is happening . Were focused on yates appropriately so. Shes not the only one who had problems with the executive order. Notably President Trumps new secretary of defense had to send over a list of iraqis. They were on the list of seven countries that were targeted by the executive order who have helped american soldiers on the battlefield. Who have been in combat and who have served as translators with american soldiers. I cant think of anything more unamerican than forgetting to do that on the front end. The other person that had a problem with pieces of this executive order was President Trumps new secretary of Homeland Security who pozited that leaving out green card holders was also problematic. So i think that attorney acting attorney general yates obviously pushed this white house too far, but she was far from the only policy critic and the only one questioning its legality, its morality and its implementation. What does it mean . Well, it means that we have a white house that is now rolling out policy that dramatically affects the lives of human beings. I think there are over 100 people that were detained at airports. Keeping families separated. I mean, there was elections have consequences and one of those consequences certainly could have been that President Trump and his white house reevaluated the visa application process, could have put in place new vetting. However, leaving out or not thinking about iraqis who are helping americans on the battlefield, leaving out and not thinking about green card holders who are some of the most extremely vetted people to walk around, you know, american soil, is not just an errant judgment, but almost criminal incompetence. When we talk about Donald Trumps brand and our law professor gave a stunningly insightful political analysis, he could moonlight if he wanted to, but he was elected on this wave of change. Of an appetite for dramatic change. Bullet his brand is closely tied to being a competent businessman. Every voter i met in my trump we trust series i went out there and tried to understand the trump voter, especially folks who voted for president obama twice, why pick donald trump . They think he can bring a business acumen that has at its core the ability to run things. He has not displayed the ability to competently run a policy process around the First National Security Policy hes sort of taken a swing at. Ed rollins, your friend, david gergen, said tonight, i think they intentionally want to create this kind of chaos. Could that be possible . I think they want to create motion and i think they have created motion. I think theyve had a very aggressive seven, eight days here, certainly some little missteps along the way. As nicolle will tell you, or david gergen, my old friend, those of us who have been in white houses, in the early days its a learning process. This is a whole brand new team. Brand new president. Very few people any kind of experience. They have a very aggressive agenda. These things he promised, he feels are very important to get out there. I think the acting attorney general knew what she was doing. Obviously this was cleared by the office of Legal Counsel. The office of Legal Counsel is the governments lawyer. Its in the Justice Department. If they signed off on this, they basically meant they didnt find any fault with it as far as the law. I think she clearly understood what she was doing when she waved the red flag in front of trump and she got speared. I think to a certain extent, the story will be a terrible story for a day or two until we have a new chief justice or new justice tomorrow night and the story goes to the next round. This is a very aggressive team. They want to get things done. This is an active president. I think to a certain extent, a week from now we wont be paying much attention to this story. Let me run more quotes by you. Florida republican congressman said tonight on lawrence odonne odonnells show, by the end of this year we may see a president drifting toward an impeachable moment. Your other good friends at the New York Times wrote this in two headlines today, in days trump upends americas enduring image, and with little regard for basic governance, unleashed global chaos. Thats not reading well. Its not well, you dont get to write the headlines for the New York Times, unfortunately, we all have tried to do that in our past lives. I think this is a president who basically feels he has a mandate for the american public, i dont think hes going to care very much about his poll numbers or the rest of it. Hes going to basically be an action guy. He may over the Long Term Care about these things. He truly is an independent guy. Hes not going to be a republican or democrat all the time. Hes going to try to implement them. Hes been very aggressive so far. Jeremy bash, when asked from the podium today why the president moved his announcement of a Supreme Court nominee from thursday to tuesday, sean spicer said because he wanted to. Perhaps it was in light of so much bad publicity over this weekend. Yeah, im reminded of that old movie, brian, wag the dog where you create one distraction to distract from another distraction. Look, the new team does have a does believe they have a mandate, but where they are the least experienced is in National Security affairs. So, and what private citizen would be experienced in National Security affairs . So the new team comes in and between priebus, conway, kushner and bannon, they have precisely zero days in federal Government Service and now theyre asked to weigh in and opine on big National Security issues, not just this immigration issue, but theres Ballistic Missiles tests from iran going on, theres a special operations commando raid under way in yemen. They got crises coming at them left, right and center. Thats why they need to rely on expertise. Expertise from National Security professionals. Its why its so dangerous to blow fast balls past the secretary of defense. Past the Homeland Security secretary, past the intelligence community. It is going to catch up with them and i think this weekend shows that it already is. Jeremy, how do you think this is going over in your old shops in the pentagon, and over in langley, virginia, at cia . Well, look, i think for the most part National Security professionals believe that this immigration order is a very shortsighted and counterproductive counterterrorism tool. If you put an entire civilian population under surveillance and under scrutiny, youre not going to be actually able to chase specific intelligence leads and penetrate specific plots and it also hands an enormous propaganda weapon to isis. Its just about the last thing you want if youre charged with predicting the country. Ed rollins has literally raised his hands requesting more time. So polite. Doesnt know the rules around here. Just jump in. Only one line of correction i can give you, mr. Bannon had seven years in the navy and an extraordinary career in which he ended up being chief of staff to a major admiral. I dont see that makes him a National Security expert but it is government experience and certainly the pentagon, he knows a lot about a lot. The counterpoint to that, mr. Bannon is a lightning rod for the partisan elements and the more sort of troubling and alienlating aspects of Donald Trumps i would argue this President Trump would not be there as elected president if bannon hadnt come in and run his campaign. I will disagree but i think that cuts both ways. Were going to take a break. Were Getting Started on our special hourlong edition of the broadcast tonight. Were back with more right after this. For lower back pain sufferers, the search for relief often leads. Here. Here. Or here. 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