a mocking bird" and one "down ton abbey" themed office. good evening from new york. amid the worst u.s. measles outbreak in 20 years, the question of whether or not vaccinations should be mandatory has somewhat remarkably emerged as the first major controversy of the republican presidential primary. it started when kacie hunt asked about something that has sickenned children across the united states. that sentiment was later echoed by another perspective 2016 candidate, rand paul a former eye dot who brought out questionable science in an interview on cnbc. >> i have heard of many tragic indication f of walking, talking, normal children that wound up with profound mental disorders after vaccines. i'm not saying they're a bad idea, i think they're a good thing but i think the parent should have some input. the state doesn't own your children, parents own the children and it is an issue of freedom. >> i did not say that vaccines caused disorders, just that they were related. today i received a booster shot for the vaccines i received last year. it is no surprise he is now trying to do damage control. the backlash from the establish establishment ring of their class. the wall street journal blasted christie's stumble. on fox news bill o riley spoke about how vak seens were the government actually doing something right. >> my take is every school district in the country should require immunization for measles. if you don't have it your child can't go. >> this will be a big issue because it is about big brother, and on the other hand some things require involvement of big brother. >> speaker john boehner said all children ought to be vaccinated. and republican members made a strong case in favor of vaccination. >> it is important for parents to have their children vaccinated. >> this is far too serious of an issue to be treated as a political football. >> past publications have been discredited. there is no link between develop mental disorders and vaccines. >> when i hear habit counties in california that have lower immunization rates that sudan and chad this is of concern to me. >> for people not listening and paying attention today, please have your children vaccinated. >> the other candidates have weighed in. bobby jin dan and ben carson both said they put public health first. marco rubio argued that all children in america should get vaccinated. >> unless they're immune suppressed, but i believe that all children as is the law in most states in this country before they can even attend school, need to be vaccinated for a certain panel. there is nothing that linked it to the onset of autism. and people that are not vaccinated you put at risk children three months old and younger. all children in america should be vakccinatedvaccinated. >> the personal freedom still has it's adherence. for example, sean duffy of wisconsin and fox news's sean hannity. >> i know my kids best. i know what morals and values are right for my children and i think we should not have an oppressive state telling us what to do. >> i got my kids vaccinated, but i believe parents should have the choice. i'm not trusting president obama whether or not i should vaccinate my kids. >> while the movement doesn't have any political affiliation, it appears in some instances to dove tail with a strain of libertarian ideology. before he was a senator, rand paul laid out that logic in a 2009 interview with alex jones talking about the vaccine for swine flu. >> they are talking about it being mandatory. you have to weigh the risks of the disease and the risks of the vaccine. i'm not telling people they have to take it people should make their own health care decisions. >> hand tire vaccinations are not the only type of planmandate that encroaches on our freedom. we were sitting back in a restaurant and an employee came out of the restroom that said dun this regulation that this gentleman should wash his hands before serving your food. and i said i don't care as long as they post a sign saying i don't care -- our employees are not required to wash their hands after using the bathroom. the market will take care of it. are you amused by the fak that in january or february of 2015 we're having a debate about vaccinations? >> yes, i am dismayed. i am disappointed that something purely scientific is part of a political issue. >> it does mean though today there does seem to be a kind of rush away from the position that was taken yesterday. it does seem like there is a kind of establishment strikes back in which people are coming out of the wood work to say look, this is the law of the land in most if not every state. it makes good common sense. >> yeah it does make common sense. the scientist for over half a century century. when it first started in the 50s, mothers worried every day. there was a death rate associated a pregnant woman could be inveked and have complications. we don't see that any more. measles was almost eradicated. the children that are not vaccinated become vectors. >> you were surgeon general under george w. bush. it seems like there is some point in the way in which public health accounts which is sometimes heavy handed and sometimes through mandates and some of the articulations you have seen is that this is an imposition on freedom. did you have fights with the bush administration when you were surgeon general on that terrain? >> every surgeon general has their battles. the chief of staff and others they pretty much gave me the free hand and my colleagues when we made suggestions, especially about vaccines. there were other problems, of course, and this happens in every administration. i think the problem here is a larger one. individual rights versus the rights of society. the government has an interest to keep everybody safe. it can raise the cost of health care in a time that we're trying to keep it down. there is many compelling reasons why government should be involved. speaking as a surgeon general, we all hope that informed parents make good decisions based on the best science. when and if they don't, government as a compelling interest to step in and ensure the public safety. that is what has to be done. i'm disappointed at this issue becoming politicized. those running for officer should -- >> are you surprised one of the most prominent people here is dr. rand paul, though today he made a show of going to get immunized with a booster shot. does that surprise you at all. >> it doesn't, this is all plucks. you're the expert in political theater. we're ramping into the two-year cycle for the presidentials and everyone is lining up. the first platform is one about science and immunization. those who stepped too far are backing away from it. and you say this with ebola. there are health professionals at the state and city level, the surgeon general's office that can address the issues in a purely scientific manner. >> thank you, sir. >> thank you, nice to be here. joining me here is matt welch. >> here is the thing, let just say i have a friend that wants to be a libertarian and join your tribe, also believes mandatory vaccination for schools to require for admittance. >> if he reads virginia postrel on twitter saying that the vaccine movement has been based largely on junk science and fears that have been debunked all over the place and that we need to conceive a public policy to get over the nonsense that has arisen but i have to stick up -- >> that was such a long prologue. >> michael bloomberg, as one of his last acts said you can't send your kid today day care. my family and daughter was not belong to hepatitis b. the problem is people take those kinds of objections and say let's apply those to the mumps and measles and other things out there. i think it is very understandable distrust that people have in institutions. the same government -- >> and the medical profession, we have seen trust for doctors, you know, plummet over the last 20 or 30 years. some of that is understandable, trusting drug companies, certainly, we have seen debacles right? there is rational reasons for people to say this expert told me to do it and i'm going to do it. >> it is easy to poke fun at the crazy people right now. we have religious opt outs philosophical opt outs of getting your child vaccinates so what should the cost of them be. in california it is if you're going to opt out, sign a note from your doctor saying you understand the health risks associated with it that might have implications later and as a result they saw, finally because california has been going crazy on this stuff, that it is going down. >> so there is a kind on public shaming happening about this kind of view is outside of the main stream and i think that is effective and useful and i think the rand paul walk back is effective and useful. you have to conceive of this in a broader sense. mississippi has the postconservemost conservative state of the union. there are no opt outs and it has a very high rate. and i don't think from what i read, this is not like a burning issue in mississippi that folks feel -- >> and it's not a burning federal issue either barack obama today said this is basically not a federal issue. this is local school districts, state laws we're making a lot of politics and theater about something that is a state issue. >> where where do you come down on mandatory hand washing? >> should be a federal law -- >> no federal law, but -- let me say this i love that the regulatory regime you would have to create for the transparency requirement is the same. the idea of just we'll have them say if they opt in or out. every single additional nonsense regulation that you mandate discredits the ones that you absolutely need. we need to focus on the things, communicable disease. watch your hands after you use the facilities and before you serve food. late breaking news tonight that is a disaster for people who ride the busiest commuter railroad. getting key nutrients from food alone. let's do more... ...add one a day 50+. complete with key nutrients we may need. plus it supports physical energy with b vitamins. one a day 50+ [ female announcer ] we help make secure financial tomorrows a reality for over 19 million people. 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in fact, america is now the world's number one natural gas producer... and we could soon become number one in oil. because hydraulic fracturing technology is safely recovering lots more oil and natural gas. supporting millions of new jobs. billions in tax revenue... and a new century of american energy security. the new energy superpower? it's red, white and blue. log on to learn more. there comes a time in everyone's life when you want more. like a new meticulously engineered german sedan. finely crafted. exactingly precise. desire for such things often outpaces one's means. until now. hey matt, new jetta? yeah. introducing lots of new. the new volkswagen jetta. isn't it time for german engineering? all right, we have reached the point in this new hour about the latest atrocity from isis. i will not show any image of the captive before his execution. isis seems to relish in murder and the thing they're most proficient at is finding ways to beam out the images of their murders to cause the maximum amount of possible trauma. isis uses tactics and help facilitate this country's entry into a war against isis. they have executed nearly five westerners drawing both of our countries into the battle. this year they murdered two hostages and today, people filled the streets of aman jordan after learning one of their own pilots was burned to death. the pilot had been captured by isis militants when his f-16 fighter jet crashed. according to the "new york times," they aed to negotiate with the islamic state which demanded the release of a iraqi woman. the fact according to jordanian sources, three prisoners are in custody and they would be swamped. all three are on death row in jordan. isis killed the pilot releasing a 22 minute video today that showed that execute. the king who was on a trip to the u.s. met with president obama a few moments ago and is cutting the rest of his trip short. okay why? why do they do this? one level is these are monsters this is a sick death cult. and sometimes when you read isis followers on twitter is seems like that. there is another argument that they are essentially rational actors, cruel and sadistic. when you watch the video they released today, they lace it with political messaging. they try to bury a very verygroteskue. they are trying to keep control of the territories they contain. they're not trying to promote an ideology beyond their borders, they're trying to control the area in the -- >> that is us a the question to me who is the audience of this horrific kind of propaganda directed at? is it directed internally because if you are someone who is just a random iraqi under isis, you think these guys are terrifying, i will shut up and do what i'm told. is it other people recruiting them into the fight from amsterdam to jordan? who is the audience? >> i think it is both. there is certainly an attempt to recruit people. these videos are made and produced in foreign languages, subtitles in french or russian. it is not really made for their own kind of domestic consumption. the fear in the areas where these people are living -- >> they threw two guys off of a tower in an iraqi city the other day. >> they be head people, execute people, they are trying to recruit people from abroad. >> jordan already part of the coalition. jordan has been one of the most involved entities in this collision, flying these bombing raids over isis controlled territory. the question becomes we all agree, horrible monstrous murders. then what what is the policy solution. >> the short answer is it is not really doing enough. when you hear from the military pentagon spokes person today, it is not functioning the way it used to. it's not doing enough to eradicate isis. and what you need is some of these countries to do more. >> from a fighting perspective? >> certainly, when you look at a group like isis they don't control their territory by simply the weapons. when you talk about countries like egypt and saudi arabia. they can try to address this by putting their boots on the ground and try to clean up this mess if they really felt this was an existential event. it will open a whole can of worms that none of these countries are willing -- >> it seepsms like you can't separate the darkness that we're seeing from the fact that they're operating in a place that is the site of some of the worst carnage and may ham for 12 astronaut straight years, right? >> the ideology is the battle on the field. the ideology to beat it has a long term strategy that has to do a lot with reforming that arab world. we have to push them to reform themselves. we say it all of the time but in the short timeer term you have to step up the military capabilities -- >> you think it bereaves with the countries -- >> turkey can shut down it's border it can push troops into some of these areas to flush out some isis strongholds. doing so wutput them in a direct confrontation with powerhouses. and you don't want to do that. that political paralysis is why we have this situation that we see today. >> we could just clone the curds and let them -- >> it seems they're the only ones willing to fugtight. >> colorado residents may be getting a tax refund from an unlikely source. that is a water bottle on downton abbey. i think the answer is yes. ♪♪ expected wait time: 55 minutes. your call is important to us. thank you for your patience. waiter! vo: in the nation, we know how it feels when you aren't treated like a priority. we do things differently. we'll take care of it. vo: we put members first... join the nation. thank you. ♪ nationwide is on your side ♪ alright, so this tylenol arthritis lasts 8 hours, but aleve can last 12 hours... and aleve is proven to work better on pain than tylenol arthritis. so why am i still thinking about this? 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who told you you could do that. stay where you are, you created a bit of crisis in the office. according to a report is that the reporter was asked to delete the photos, and he refused. it's not the bold walls, it's how the decorator's services were paid for, or not. she offered her services for free but the congressman paid for objects. members of congress are not supposed to offer gifts of $50 or more including gifts of services. they are looking into whether or not the red walls are the least of his problems. mmm, a perfect 177-degrees. and that's why this road warrior rents from national. i can bypass the counter and go straight to my car. and i don't have to talk to any humans, unless i want to. and i don't. and national lets me choose any car in the aisle. co not the red walls are the least nt you drop 40 grand on a new set of wheels, then... wham! a minivan t-bones you. guess what: your insurance company will only give you 37-thousand to replace it. 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no. it's called grid iq. the 4:51 is leaving at 4:51. ♪ they cut the power. it'll fix itself. power's back on. quick thinking traffic lights and self correcting power grids make the world predictable. thrillingly predictable. >> at the tale of of crisis and austerity in the united states colorado springs has a problem, their economy is now getting better. it now outpaces nearly every other state in the u.s. the economist predicted the state to continue to lead in population growth employment growth, wage and salary growth and personal income growth. and then there is marijuana. in 2013 you recall one year after voters in california approved legal recreational use, a they went back to the polls. a 15% sax on the price means a tax on growers when they sell at their dispensaries, and a tax on the retail price when consumers buy. here is where it gets weird. because of colorado's booming economy, and it's windfall from marijuana taxes, the state found itself with more money than it is legally allowed to have. in 1992 voter approved constitutional amendment called the taxpayers' bill of rights been because of this issue, the state may be forced to give back some of those marijuana tax collars to it's residents. final numbers are not available yet, but the press stating it could amount to $30.5 million or about $7.63 per adult in colorado. in an awe parent show of bipartisan, the ap reporting that republicans and democrats say there is no good reason to put pot taxes into people's pockets. joining me now is michael elliot, the executive director of the marijuana industry group. >> protecting the integrity of this program, our industry group and the industry in general endorsed the tax campaign, the campaign to increase taxes on us and we helped fund the effort. i was one of the lead spokes people in favor of it. we talked about having money available for marijuana prevention, and whatever the state wanted that was a safety issue. >> you to see it socked away? let me ask you this the reason there are so many taxes, the reason there is such tax revenue is you have this tightly regulated. if i move to colorado can i plant my flag in the marijuana business tomorrow? >> not directly in the industry. now we have there is about 500 pages of state marijuana law and regulations, a whole host of requirements on owners with background checks and financial disclosures, it is a two year residency program for owners. but there are lots of opportunities for construction accounting security, of course attorneys, we need help with just about everything. >> but my point i guess here is you in the industry in colorado hats off to you, you are sitting on a license to present money. it is a good reason for it to be there, but that regulation you're talking about means that new entrants into the market have a high barrier to get over which means the people that are there, the people you represent they're sitting on a money printing machine. >> i describe it a bit differently than that but there is about 2,000 state marijuana licenses. hundreds of owners in the state already. you have to realize these regulations are very hard to comply with. we have state and local licenses. most of the cities and counties in colorado decided to ban the businesses, but the bigger areas like denver and the front range in colorado have embraced this. you have to realize too that these regulations cost a lot of money to comply with it mandatory video surveillance. testing, just kind of getting started with that and the taxes, it's not just the state taxes, but we get dinged at the the -- >> what happened to the price there at the consumer level over the course of the trajectory. other this permit running for this chunk of time. prices for recreational sales. there was a shortage of supply now it has come back down. the black market is trying to under cut the license businesses because they don't have to do the licenses or comply with the regulations. the price is affordable. this is a balancing act because we can't take it and sell it in new york city or paris like the beer companies can do. >> michael elliott, thank you very much. >> thank you. >> is new jersey governor chris christie really a jet setting freeloader? plus, good news of the fans of harper lee. possibly not great news for harper lee herself, we'll explain, next. meet the world's newest energy superpower. surprised? in fact, america is now the world's number one natural gas producer... and we could soon become number one in oil. because hydraulic fracturing technology is safely recovering lots more oil and natural gas. supporting millions of new jobs. billions in tax revenue... and a new century of american energy security. the new energy superpower? it's red, white and blue. log on to learn more. it is not every 80-year-old that can break the internet but today, harper lee announced there will be a sequel to "to kill a mocking bird." it was published in 1961 and she never published another novel, it is no small thing to hear that a new novel is forth coming. go set a watchman was written before mocking bird and it finds scout finch. the man script was believed lost and rediscovered last fall by lee's friend and lawyer. but, and here is when the news takes a turn towards the dark. harper lee is said to be nearly blind and deaf and many fans and followers are skeptical of her actual participation in the release of "watchman." the book deal was negotiated by the friend/lawyer that rediscovered the manuscript. you can preorder the new book, and it is already a best seller. tomorrows a reality for over 19 million people. 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[ female announcer ] everyone has a moment when tomorrow becomes real. transamerica. transform tomorrow. sweet mother of softness... charmin!!! take a closer look at charmin ultra soft and you'll love what you see. not only can you use less, but you can actually see the softness in our comfort cushions. we all go. why not enjoy the go with charmin ultra soft? about a month ago when chris christie sat in the cowboys owners box and engaged in the semihug thing with owner jerry jones. then we found out that jones paid for christie to attend the game including a ride on his private jet. which led to questions about jones that has a business relationship with the port authority in new york and new jersey. a front page story in the "new york times" today details his fondness for accepting luxury benefits for people that have something to gain from mim -- on a private jet owned by billionaire casino magnet and g.o.p. donor sheldon addleson that was trying to fight a bill about online gambling. they enjoyed a lavish weekend enjoyed by king abdullah. the tab for the rooms used by christie was paid for by the king. him and his family have gone on four international trips including the current trip to london. it is funded by a company that is financed. tripped where the christie clan can stay in lavish five-star properties. and also my favorite story. from the 2012 presidential campaign, he reportedly only made out of campaign stops if he was flown in on a private plane. in all fairness to chris christie, he is not the only politician with a pension for luxury travel on someone else's dime. this is endemic in politics and we'll take you through some of the more ugly details. there's nothing more romantic than a spontaneous moment. so why pause to take a pill? 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yeah. introducing lots of new. the new volkswagen jetta tdi clean diesel. isn't it time for german engineering? joining me now to talk about the gift economy is jeff smith who went to prison for campaign violations in his 2004 campaign. and brian murphy assistant professor at baruke college. where in the scale of this you're a politician, you're around state houses by the way, state houses, america, are a sess pool. where do you think this is in. >> i don't think it is that bad, i mean -- >> $30,000 -- >> who among us has not spent $30,000 on a couple hotel rooms. he has a couple people he is really competing with for establishment money. to push off jeb bush he is trying to play "i'm the every man guy" and this really hurts that. when you have him sitting in a box and in the cheap seats with the cheese heads, it's not a good look. >> the most striking thing to me is you're flying on a guy's private jet when he is very publicly and clearly lobbying you on a pretty important piece of legislation that will come before you that will absolutely 100% affect his bottom line and he came out on the right way. but it just seems like manifestly corrupt. >> i think also he would have had legislative opposition had he come out and done something different. because of the way the politics are and in new jersey around this i thought the more interesting point was who the sources are and if it was a former member of his staff that he trashed last year. there are people involved in the bridgegate scandal that the governor was delighted to slam publicly. knowing where bodies are buried. and i think it is why, why didn't he take more care of his long term viability if he knew he was running in this position now, why did he do this a year ago or two years ago. >> let's be clear here people like free stuff. if you're watching this right now, take donuts to your office tomorrow and watch people descend. i like free stuff. but what is the psychology of that specifically as a former electorin some ways you have a lot of power, but you don't have a lot of money relative to the people you're interfacing. >> i think that is exactly right. you learn that you suddenly get a lot better looking, you get funnier, and people want to buy you stuff all of the time. it is a heady experience, right? but you have to try to separate yourself and take yourself back into a dwlu iscompletely separate you from politics. i would have dinner in my sunday parents house on sundays, and they are so cheap. >> how corrupting is it? the steady stream of it, and you cover jersey politics jersey has strong rules on this. we have the new assembly speaker that has a per diem of $20,000 plus, how corrupting is it? >> i think the problem that we have and i think it is a prop in a lot of states, is that the definition that we operate under is that you're allowed to do what is legal, and what is legal is the distinction between a bribe and gift is almost meaningless. so it is sort of creating all of these avenues for money and influence, and in a way that it never shows up on a donation form. if you're going to cover influence in politics the donation forms, you're starting in the wrong place. >> this point about all you have to do to transform a bribe into a gift is temporaly separate. i say i need you to deliver and here is x dollars. a gift is come to my house on the beach, stay for a little bit, i could really use a talk with senator smith. >> i obviously made some mistakes that didn't have anything to do with bribery, but one of the things i speak now to state legislatures around the country, and i learned to never have a conversation about a contribution in the same time or place that you have a conversation about public policy. so if you call and you ask if money, and they call you back two days later, and they say i want to talk to you about this bill, and also i'm good to go for the $10,000. you say okay i can appreciate that, i'll call you back tomorrow and we can talk. >> that is a perfect example. by the will theletter of the law i understand that, but lots of people with lots of money who want stuff with you. if they want it they will want it in the future and it will incur a sense in any normal human being of obligation. >> and that is exactly, i think the issue that we have to think about in designing policy and writing law around this is how do you great independence among your legislatures. and they are not even pretending. they're like -- >> if someone is giving you a ride on their private plane, you're not independent. now a update on the train crash we brought you earlier, there is now six confirmed fatalities. the train collided with a car, thar say they're saying it was a black jeep cherokee that was stopped on the tracks. there are also at least 12 injuries from the crash. 400 customers were taking to a rock climbing gym for shelter. rachel maddow now taking over the coverage. >> we have unexpected and good news out of alabama tonight, a lot of news a busy show we will get to all of it. as chris mentioned there we have legitimately breaking news tonight, upsetting news from the town of valhalla new york. one of the new york city area rail systems is called metro north, just aft

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