political rival. that is beyond the outer periphery of a presidents duties, so no immunity. but that was not the approach trump's lawyers took. they took this expansive approach, asking the federal judiciary to embrace the notion that nothing a president could do could be criminal, and that, i think is the real problem here. and as you say, we wanted them to look at the margins. we want them to be incentives in place, not to be put in place. what trump's lawyers advocated for is where president is truly above the law. the >> reporter: roof, that puts us squarely into your period. that you've always said, once these authoritarian regimes don't start with the toppling of a government, or revolution. but sometimes it happens like this. little positions here in there that caused the person in charge to accumulate more power, and have it proven to them that they can use that power.