i can go march on the capitol. i can go use a hammer. that's what's being created here. it's not just trump himself. it's the movement. >> here is the question for you, jen, i'll let you in. i'll let you in. how does joe biden fight that? because joe biden does traditional politics. and it seems to me that traditional politics is not appropriate for the fight against pure fascism. >> yeah. >> so talk about the messaging and communications challenge for the incumbent president who is a politician in the traditional sense but what he's fighting is so asymmetric, how do you run that campaign? >> well, i would say first f you look at -- if we had this conversation a week and a half ago, i would say there needs to be more of it. but the two speeches he gave last friday and last monday are part of that. right? that is making a very clear argument about what's at stake. some of the language and comparisons he used in that speech on monday, they were pretty historic in how bold they were. >> and strong. >> and strong. now i spent a day with the