Fascists to form a government, to become the new Prime Minister and head of the fascists enthusiastically agreed and the Tens Of Thousands of his supporters who he had threatened would March On Rome to seize power in a coup. They didnt March On Rome to seize power. Instead, they marched on rome in a Victory Parade because just the threat of them had made it so that he was handed power bloodlessly. That is how the fascists took power in italy 100 years ago next month. They threatened to take power by force, didnt have to, because they intimidated everybody into giving them power ahead of their march be on rome. Thats the famous March On Rome, october 1922. The centennial of that event next month. What happened in 1922, things in italy changed pretty quickly. Within three years, by 1925, italy was a oneparty state. Within three years after that, by 1928, mussolini abolished elections all together. It was a full on fascist dictatorship. Not to spoil the plot or anything, but as you may know, things ended poorly for everyone. We think of the world of world war ii here in the United States, we think of it as august 1945, the u. S. Dropped atopic bombs on japan in august, japan surrendered a few days later. Japan was just one of the axis powers. Things ended in europe, april 25, 1945, italy celebrates its liberation day, the day they were liberated from fascist rule and nazi occupation. April 25, 1945, the Fascist Leader who had been in power since 1922, benito mussolini, tried to flee the country starting april 25th, 1945. Within two days he was caught. He was disguised as a nazi soldier. He was caught near lake como, north of milan. He tried to flee starting the 25th. They caught him on the 27th. They held him overnight and then early in the morning on the side of a rural road on april 28th they shot him dead. And then for something i think more than indignity, something more than just the end, they didnt just leave him on the side of the road. They threw mussolinis corpse into a truck and drove it back to milan. Now, i have to worn you, if you are squeamish or if you have kids watching, you may not want to see this. I am going to show this for a second and only once. If you dont want to see it, i understand. This is what they did with him in milan. Hung his corpse upside down from the feet off of a metal girder. And they left it there. Hanging in the square in milan, him and his mistress, other top fascist officials who were executed alongside him. Believe it or not, it got worse from there. The u. S. Military ordered his body taken down, autopsied, cause of death, not hard to figure out at that point. They buried him in an Unmarked Grave that wasnt unmarked enough. In 1946 a fascist supporter found him in that Unmarked Grave, dug him up and stole his body whereupon they started shuttling that corpse all over the place. They dragged it so all over the place one report suggests it lost a leg along the way. But they ended up hiding his body such as it was in a monastery for more than a decade until the mid 1950s. 1957 they decided to dig him up again at that monastery and put him in his familys tomb in his hometown. So now fascist the world over can have little fascist pilgrimages to the final Resting Place of old peglegged mussolini. It didnt not end well for anyone, let alone him. Supporters of that dictatorship, supporters of that variety of fascism, they dont only have the mausoleum to remember mussolini by because the year after he was killed, right around the time that his body was getting dug up and shuttled around by his supporters, a year after the end of world war ii, 1946, a man who served as Chief Of Staff in mussolinis government founded a new Political Party to carry on the spirit of mussolini. Carry on the mussolini dream. By then, of course, italy had lost world war ii, mussolini had come to the end he came to. It was illegal to form a fascist party. When they founded this new party to keep alive the spirit of mussolini, they couldnt use as the symbol of the new party the symbol he used, that cluster of rods that he used as the symbol of fascism from his day. They picked a different symbol ashes flame colored red, green and white, the colors of the italian flag. Its suppose to represent the Eternal Flame maintained at the grave of mussolini. The grave of mussolini which is the Pilgrimage Site for fascists worldwide. Mussolini is dead, really dead in april 1945. The guy who was the Chief Of Staff in mussolinis in 1946 forms a new party to keep fascism, the spirit of mussolini alive. That guy who had been the Chief Of Staff in the mussolini government, he ran that party for years. The next head of the party after him said publicly that mussolini was the greatest statesman of the 20th century. The party chief after him declared his party, quote, we are all heirs of mussolini. They werent hiding their light under a bush. This is the party designed to keep the legacy of mussolini alive. But that guy who said we are all the heirs of el duce, that was the last head of that party before now. The head of that party now today just claimed victory for her party and she is about to become the next Prime Minister of italy. Here she is with steve bannon. Here she is doing interviews from washington, d. C. , when she was invited during the trump years to the National Prayer breakfast, invited by republicans. Here she is at cpac. This is this year, just a few months ago. And thats exactly what they want. A rightwing on a leash. Irrelevant and trained as a monkey. But you know what . Were not monkeys. We are not even rhinos. We won the battle. They are zoo. [ cheers and applause ] we will not be a party of their inner circles. Yay everybody stands up at cpac and collapse for that. Before today the highest Profile Member of her party was Benito Mussolinis granddaughter, who happens to be on the city council in rome now. But now today we know that the head of mussolinis postfascist party in italy is not taking a city council job. She is about to take over and run that country. Like i said, they are not hiding their light under a bushel, they are not subtle about this. In her younger days in an interview from french tv. I think mussolini was a good politician. Everything he did, he did for italy. Now she will be the new leader of italy. Kind of a gangbusters way to commemorate the 100year anniversary of mussolinis March On Rome, right . Kind of on the nose. But i think its important to remember that these things dont always work. Back in 1922, mussolinis success with his March On Rome, the fascist coup he was able to pull off in italy. At the time that was so successful it seems like it could be replicated elsewhere, inspired a guy in germany to do the same thing in bavaria. The same approach, a show of force, a small giant cadre trying to take over through pure intimidation. He tried the beer haul pitch. That was November 1923 they tried that. But even though it worked in rome, in bavaria it didnt work. The dude running that effort got arrested, was tried and convicted, was sentenced to five years in prison and released after serving about nine months. During his nine months in jail he wrote a book called mein kampf. He said all the time he had to think about how he was going to seize power for good the next time, which he did. Incidentally, historians are pretty sure that hitler was informed as to what happened to mussolini right before he died. In that one fateful week in 1945, you have got mussolini trying to flee the country on the 25th. You have him shot on the 28th. You have got him strung up upside down in milan the 29th and then it is the 30th, the very next day, when hitler killed himself in his bunker. And maybe learning what happened to mussolini is part of what led to his decision to do that. But even though both germany and italy were defeated in world war ii, both germany and italy surrendered, and the Fascist Leaders of those countries died within 48 hours of each other, coincidentally or not, germany subsequently, famously, went through an aggressive decadeslong painful process of denazification. Plumbing the depths of why their country went that direction, committing to the practical realities they can never do anything like that again. That happened in germany, but no other country in europe, including italy, went through a process like that. So we are at this capital moment right now where history keeps telling us the last time such and such happened is during very, very, very dark times from the last century. It is, i know, uncomfortable to talk about this park of history, the Second World War and fascism of that time. The reason we have to talk about it is not to make an allegory between then and today. Its history on its own terms. Mussolini was the fascist dictator of italy and this is the party founded by his supporters and his staffers after his death. That as of today is now going to rule italy again. And this is, obviously, rattling everyone this side of steve bannon and steve pack. They think its delightful. Everybody else is back of the Envelope Tallying this up, right . You look at the leaders congratulating Giorgia Meloni on her win in italy. Viktor orban in hungary. Great hero of the american right and fox news, right . He runs hungary where the European Parliament says he has effectively end real democracy. We have the law and Justice Party in poland, which is following the same playbook to do the same thing that orban has done in hungary, this time in poland. Marie le pen, the Fascist Leader in fans who came close to winning the french presidency against emanuel macron. The far right party that won the second highest share of the vote in sweden, the party literally founded by neonazis and skinheads that may be part of the swedish government. And putin running a fascist dictatorship that is not only treating its own people in unspeakable ways, but now bursting out of the borders, invading neighbors, taking territories away from countries which is the first time that happened in europe, sorry to say, world war ii. In russia tomorrow they will announce the socalled results of these sham little votes that they are holding in parts of ukraine. Ukraine has pushed russia way back on the battlefield, so in areas that Russian Troops can still operate, the kremlin decided they are going to declare democracy to be in effect and they are going to hold a vote, a real good real fair vote at the point of a gun where they have already proclaimed the result of the vote will be that ukrainians want to be taken over by russia. These Sham Referendums they are doing they will announce the results tomorrow. They are patently ridiculous. There is no sense which these are real or legitimate. Elections. They will use fake votes to do two things. To justify moving the border, to justify taking these parts of this other country, taking parts of ukraine and declaring that these are now part of russia instead. Thats one of the things they are doing with this set of sham reverend a, these fake votes in eastern ukrainian. And to make a mockery of democracy, right . Make is it seem like elections are fake. Hey, you in the west, you say voting makes things legitimate. Are you going to criticize our democracy we thought you loved voting. We are following the desires of the people. So take a sort of back of the Envelope Tally in terms of how we are heading. As a world, in terms of authoritarian and fascist forms of government versus democracy. One side is winning right now. In our country, we are six weeks out as of tomorrow from our first big National Election since the party of the ousted rightwing president tried to maintain power by force, by a mass assault on the u. S. Capitol from his supporters. It was just two years ago this past week in the runup to that 2020 election when trump started saying outright he would not accept the results of that election unless he won. That was a crazy benchmark for American Politics at the time. Its now the new normal not just for him, but political candidates of his party. Hundreds of candidates are standing for office six weeks from now on the premise that the last election result from 2020 shouldnt have counted and maybe the next shouldnt either. Lets see how it turns out. And i think we think of this as a sort of tactical radicalism on the part of trumpera republicans. A threat to the, you know, the technical nuts and bolts, you know, First Tuesday In July System by which we pick winners by voting. But its actually a simpler problem than that, which i think you can see more easily when you see it happening in other countries. And it is. And when you can see what changes in other countries republicans here are cheering for abroad, and, yes, i think it is easier to see when you see when it has happened before, what this is descended from in history because no longer respecting Election Results isnt just about messing with elections themselves. Its about a different kind of governance, a different kind of power. If they do not want your vote to determine who is in power, that means they dont want to have to use power to try to meet your needs. Im just ill say that one more time. If they to not want it to be your vote that determines who is in power, it means that they dont want to have to use power to try to meet your needs. To try to earn your vote. Yes, this is about messing with elections. Yes, this is about minority rule instead of Majority Rule. Fundamentally, as the simplest level, this is the big thing that history tells us about, right . This is the thing that is easier to see in other countries than in our own. But this is a very simple thing. It is about separating power from the preferences of the people. Instead, just ruling over the people by force for their own purposes and to meet their own needs instead of the needs of the people. If you are trying to get and hold power by force and intimidation and not because the people want you there, that doesnt end well for anyone. Not just in history, not just as a political abstraction. But in terms of how we live and what the prospects are for our families, right . What are the prospects for you and for your future and for your kids and their future . Whether or not you care about how its gone in history. Whether or not you care about how its gone in history when the antecedents to these folks got in power. Whether or not you care about Majority Rule or minority rule as concepts, the isms at the heart of these discussions. This is about your life. In a practical, everyday sense, if there is a party trying to cast doubt on elections as the way we choose who is in power, they want to stay in power regardless of elections. They want to stay in power without your consent and without your ability to remove them, which means they do not want to serve you. And that means if you want government to do anything at all to make your familys life materially better, more stable, more dignified, this is a Flashing Red Siren about the abandonment of that task. And it is sometimes easier to see that in far away countries than it is here and close up and sometimes easier to see it in history so we can recognize how it both leads to and rhymes with what we are going through today. Joining us now is my friend david korn, the Washington Bureau chief for mother jones. He has been marinating in history. His new excellent book American Psychosis. David, thank you for writing this book and thank you for being here. I am sorry i havent been here enough to have you on when it came out tonight. I am glad you are here tonight. Thanks, rachel. I appreciate your respect for history. Talking about what happened in italy this past few days over the 100year stretch, you see the patterns. You see what you call the rhymes of history. And in doing this book, i saw the same thing in american history. We see patterns again and again that even we live through that we dont recognize, that, you know, the Republican Party and were now having a debate about whether maga extremism is something akin to fascism. The Republican Party for 70 years keeps having this dance with extremism. Encouraging exploiting extremism. Its happened all the time we see now donald trump and the Republican Party is not an aberration, its a continuation, and i was struck because i was reading up on the italian election earlier today, and there was an academic in europe who was talking about the history and he said, what we are seeing in italy is nothing new. You make that point quite, obviously. But even in the last 50 years, the far right has always been there starting at the end of world war ii, and it has bubbled up and bubbled down, bubbled up and bubbled down, and now its just emerging. Its always been there. The same way we have always had a fringe farright fanaticism here that the Republican Party has always tried to exploit to its own benefit whether it was mccarthyism, the birchers, White Segregationists in the 60s and 70s, and donald trump just made it burst out. And its interesting. In italy, you