>> i want to put up the map of nato, and ask you, given that we do have mutual defense treaties, that is a real treaty that is the kind of thing that is done between presidents and countries, we do have a mutual defense relationship with nato countries. russia seems to be awfully cautious about not encroaching on a nato country. so what is the role of all of those bright green countries, a member of which we are as nato in this conflict? >> well, look. there is a big difference between a country that is part of the nato treaty, and the country like ukraine that is not. the president has been very, very clear that we are going to reinforce our nato allies, and that is where our troops are going, our ships, our planes, are all centered on deterring putin from thinking for one minute that he can go into a nato country. so the rule is to reinforce. you, know i think that there is a good debate to be had about when we could be doing for ukraine. i think we could probably didn't be doing some stronger things for ukraine.