reza aslan joins me to talk about what happens next. ♪ ♪ ♪ good evening and welcome to the show. war crimes that's what russia seems to be carrying out in its war against ukraine. earlier today russian forces bombarded the city of zaporizhzhia, killing 17 people and wounding dozens of others. the shelling was concentrating on number apartment complexes in one of zaporizhzhia's most densely populated residential areas. marking a clear instance of vladimir putin's invading army roth -- laws of war. upstanding doubly, the strikes serve as a particularly dastardly reprisal for ukrainian military games on the battlefield against russia in recent weeks. -- the most noteworthy of which occurred yesterday, when ukrainians destroyed a massive brae ridge linking rachel what the kremlin peninsula. a critical surprise route for the kremlin's forces. as you might imagine, a thin skin putin is not taking this well. on the contrary, he's renewed his nuclear saber rattling. unnerving western allies and the u.s. intelligence communities to the point where this week, president biden issued his starkest warning yet regarding the stakes of the war. saying the risk of court, nuclear armageddon, it's higher now than at any point since the cuban missile crisis. an alarming statement, yes, but not necessarily a hyperbolic one at least according to biden's national security council spokesperson john kirby. -- ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy is working overtime to boost commitments to his country. reminding allies of the catastrophic fallout of a limited quote, tactical nuclear strike. and reiterating his argument, the russian aggression against ukraine's by proxy for russian aggression against all of europe and the west. zelenskyy's also being doubling down on his pr savvy lack ridging the soft power of his now huge global celebrity status. and that is some of the newfound friends. to bring more attention to the ukrainian cause. one such a newfound friend, hero of the battle of -- jedi master and veteran freedoms biden mark hamill. yes, i kid you not, lou skywalker himself and the farm boy who shot up -- torpedoes into an exhaust pipe besides a war brad to deserve the fourth death star. part in that moment -- after being named an ambassador for the official fund raising arm of the ukraine government earlier this year. animals turning's attention to the army of drones, a program aimed at supporting ukrainian effort through a contribution of unmanned aerial vehicles. aka, drone nations. because unfortunately, sometimes when you're fighting a reactionary totalitarian far-right figurehead like paul pertain, i mean putin, you need more than just the forest to be with you. joining me now, for his first american -- and ukrainian government is luke skywalker himself, mr. mark hamill. mark, thank you for coming on the show tonight. let me start by asking the obvious question, tell our viewers what's the army of drones, what's your role in it, what are you trying to achieve, it sounds like the name of a star wars preschool. but it's not, isn't it it's much more serious? >> it's not the army of droids. it's the army of drones. i was surprised to be contacted by president zelenskyy. i didn't ask why, i mean they saw my support for ukraine on my twitter feed. but, you know, i'm not used to being contacted by world leaders. i'm a court jester, i'm a non essential worker, i do cartoon voices, tv and movies. i was honored to be contacted what they were wanting me to do is become a so-called ambassador. which is a glorified word for representative of their army of drones. because drones define war outcomes. it's essential for ukraine to protect their border, to protect their citizens, and that's why people will do. over 150 countries to have donated to various causes, >> we know the president wants these drones to maintain surveillance. ash -- at the start of the war. we know there's a very long border between ukraine and russia that needs monitoring. are all these drones non lethal drones, lethal drones, are a mix of drones? >> i think it's a mix. obviously, the russians have many, many more drones than the ukraine does. there used to bomb civilians and so forth. one thing i wanted to mention to, you can donate money but if you have an actual drone, you can donate that. or drone ate that. i just wanted to mention, you can go to you dot to for.gov dot you a forward slash drone nation. -- it will bring you to a link where it's very easy to donate. >> this is united 24? >> united 24 -- >> mark, what attracted you to this role why do you think ukraine has captured the imagination and support of the american people like no other foreign conflict and country i can think of in living memory? >> well, we've never seen a country unilaterally invaded, in my lifetime. i guess it goes back to world war ii. it's the classic, david versus goliath. everyone expected ukraine to immediately surrender to this invading force. i think to see them fight back with such courage, it's been an inspiration to see. i first became a president zelenskyy during the first impeachment trial. so, i did a little research on him. i found him a fascinating character. nothing has diminish my admiration, not only for his leadership, but for the way that ukrainian people have banded together and reacted so heroically. obviously, they're doing very well. it's not over till it's over. >> that's very true. we're showing some pictures on the screen of president zelenskyy. talk about president zelenskyy, what was meeting him like, the leader of the resistance, what do you make of him? >> well he's a man of the people. i relate him because he started out as an actor. but to see him lead his country and i spoke to his administration first. i wasn't expecting a meeting with him. and then when he asked to meet with me, there he was in his green khaki t-shirt. i was surprised he spoke to me as long as he did. i thought, my gosh, this is a man that has a lot on his agenda. but he took the time. and who knows, maybe he's just a star wars fan. like you. >> i know you've mentioned president arise when -- you matt. and called russia the evil empire. is that a view you share, it was a view that ronald reagan shared in the 80s, when star wars was at its peak. -- today's republicans though, marjorie taylor greene, matt gates, donald trump, they don't share that view they don't want to be funding ukraine. they don't think russia's that bad. -- joe biden almost forced putin to invade ukraine by taunting him with don rhetoric. that's trump's words. what do you make, what is your view of matcha, what do you make of the gop's view of russia? >> someone asked me in an interview, if actors in star wars supported ukraine. i said, well, i haven't spoken to them personally. but who would support russia. and then i thought, oh yeah, fox news, oh am, news next it's really, really strange. i don't get it. we live in a fact based community. unfortunately, when you have people that believe the election was stolen based on no evidence. you know, euro title to your own facts. you're entitled to your own opinion. but you're not entitled to your own facts. that's the thing that the former president, the damage will last for years, and years. because he's convinced his supporters to believe, that we don't half uri and fair election's despite no evidence whatsoever. that's gonna last for a long time. and it's really scary. we have a coalition. i was just saying, we have an obligation as democrats, independents, and fact based republicans. the most divisive presidents in our lifetime, oddly enough has united me with so many republicans that still are in the fact based reality. i can list them all, it takes too long. there is more of us than there are them. but what we have to do is get out and vote. there's no excuse for not voting. i voted all my life, i've never missed an election. that's just the way i am. i was shocked by how many of my friends that said, oh, my vote doesn't matter. that's the problem, we all get out and vote. we will prevail. >> so, you're clearly really political. that's how we found each other, just yesterday you marked herschel walker in georgia on twitter saying, even he turns up in a debate with raphael warnock, will he be addressing an empty podium. have you always been politically engaged, politically passionate? >> i have been but not publicly. in other words i've always voted as i said. no one's ever after my -- martin dukakis asked me to go out on the campaign trail. it was in the last month or so. he was in a downward spiral for sure. but what happened was when i got on twitter, i think your personality comes out. and your likes and dislikes. i'm not an activist, i'm not a pundit, but i'm just an american who has an opinion. i think that comes out. like i say, we never see the legs -- if you wrote up a screenplay or a novel, based on the last six years of our political history, and went back in a time machine, you wouldn't be able to sell a cause nobody would believe it. these are extraordinary times. they require extraordinary measures. >> they are indeed. you couldn't make the stuff up. one last question i need to ask, mark, before i let you go. it's a star wars question. what's it like being back on the screen as loop -- in the tv serious the mandalorian on disney+ after all those years. i literally, like many whooped out loud in your fight scene on the season june finale. >> john favrow and dave -- invited me over to watch some footage. they said they want in my opinion. i thought, that's unusual, no one's done that before when it came to star wars. certainly not in the sequel. so, i went over, they showed me the footage and they propose this idea. which i was got smacked as you british are fond of saying. the aging process in the whole thing, i never thought i'd go back and play that part again. but one thing i think that's so advantageous for the short form storytelling that you see on the show like mandalorian, and the book of bobby faith, all the rest of them they don't have to be giant special effects extravaganza. they don't need to be epic in scope. they can tell smaller stories, character driven stories, that resonate with the audience. it's sort of going back to the idea that george had, he was very influenced by the spaghetti western, the sergio leoni westerns. and like i said, they're beautifully done. even though i'm not a participant, i will always be a star wars fan. i told people, if i don't get that part, i would've been the biggest star wars fan in the world matter who played luke. that's just my thing. carrying harrison -- >> you played loop mark, you play loop. that's why we're so excited that you came on the show to talk ukraine, gop, and star wars. we're sadly at a time. but i appreciate you joining me, mark hamill. a >> bank you so much for having, me mehdi. >> i had to say it, forgive me for that, coming up what happens when republicans mainstream, what happens when public ovens mainstream threats, violence, and all out civil war. and important discussion after the bag. jungle way, we're just getting started. jungle way, we're just getting started. 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here to discuss and editor for the bulwark, msnbc contributor, and molly jong-fast, contributor from the atlantic. thank you for joining me. molly, you're reactions from marjorie taylor greene. but that one stands up even for her to say that democrats are gonna kill republicans? >> the idea is to get your base into such a frenzy that they no longer think of democrats as human. they no longer think of this as a political policy dispute. they think they're fighting. you heard this with the people on january six, they thought they were fighting a holy war, they thought they were being called to arms. they had the promise of rhetoric -- that it's creating, it's got the supporters who really think they're being called on to do something. and it's really scary, it's dangerous, and it could really be -- easily if these people would stop saying things like this. >> charlie, you are one parts of this conservative movement. it's been a fringe the talks about political violence, civil war, rising up. but to see a sitting member of congress talk about killings, 3000% increase in civil war references. that's still pretty shocking, is it not? >> it is shocking. it's shocking because it's no longer confined to the fringe. it's being mainstreamed with, into the republican party. frankly, we wouldn't really be talking about this as an alarming political phenomenon if it weren't for the fact that it's not just marjorie taylor greene. it's the former president of the united states, who continues to give you recover to this. he invites people like marjorie taylor greene to his rallies. who he himself indulges engages in this kind of rhetoric. and again, this is in theoretical, we're not sitting here thinking, what if. as molly just mentioned, we've already experienced january six, it's getting more and more information about how in fact the supporters of donald trump including members of the militia, the oath keepers and proud boys. how they did see this as a precursor to civil war. this is a very real problem, i gotta tell you, every week i would be -- because the talk of violence becomes, has become normalized. it's become part of the acceptable discourse about republicans. >> you have donald trump threatening violence -- watch what happens. molly, or two years away from 2024. republicans already openly playing out the groundwork to literally steal the election, do not deco rise of democratic victory. don't take my word for it, jim marchand, secretary of state is leading a collection of -- leading in the polls, in that crucial state. he said at trump's alley last night, have a listen. >> so, we have something in common. president trump and i lost an election in 2020 because of a rigged election. and when i'm secretary of state, of nevada, we're gonna fix it. president trump's gonna be president again in 2024! >> molly, these are people running for office of the election official telling us it's gonna be trump in 24. they're saying it openly, it's gonna be trump. how are the democrats not more alarmed right now. how are we not seeing a full called press from the democratic party on the end of american democracy, in front of our eyes? >> i have no idea. it's terrifying. you see this, you realize that, nevada fleeing state, arizona is a swing state. these are states that democrats have won, theoretically. one quite recently. you install a trumpy loyalist in there and they're promising the democrats won't have a chance. i don't know, it seems to me like there is a moment here where there is still some legislative possibilities. even if it's just caught-ifying the electoral count act. i think that democrats need to be doing everything they can to get out there and say this is not okay, this is very dangerous. and this wall timidly be the undoing of democracy if we don't have free and fair elections, we don't have anything. >> i mean it's not as if they're not saying it's bad. the problem i have when i talk to members of congress as they say, yes, it's really bad, democracy is under threat. but also prescription drug prices, also this, also. that it's not one of many issues, it's the issue. but it's existential. i wish more than would say. that charlie, if the election deniers on the right wind in 2022, next month, to me democracy looks like it's over in america, fascism is here to stay. -- insurrection, domestic terrorism, civil war, god forbid. is there any scope for optimism here? >> well, that was dark. i do wonder in my darker moods, if we've crossed a red line here. but the stakes are so high, it comes down to your point of why this is not a bigger factor in the campaign. the new york times did it piece last week about the senate race in my home state was conson, how democrats are concerned that -- being hammered on issues of crime. this is a big issue for republicans, it appears to be working. but in there, it's also said that the vatican officials in wisconsin and internationally have concluded that going after the january 6th insurrectionists, and tying people like ron johnson to the violence, to the anti democratic extremism. is not effective. i need to say, really, seriously, it seems like a mistake to make. and friday night, -- did at least begin the. as he said, they're talking about defunding the police being soft on crime. he turned the table and said, if we're in a talk about police, let's talk about the hundred 40 capitol police officers who were abandoned by ron johnson, who supported this insurrection. that's great in a debate on friday night in opening -- but at some point, the democrats need to counterpunch. they need to say, look, these are the stakes we understand. if your hearing wisconsin, you hear about crime, at the border, inflation. but you don't hear about this issue of democracy being on the ballot. the fact that you have a defender or enabler, rationalize or of an attempted overthrow, the u.s. government. i don't know, mehdi, it seems like something we need to be talking about. it's not as if the gum or -- don't have the resources. if you're running against someone that supported a coup, against the federal government, then i think they ought to pound on it, and mention it -- rollover in assume this won't work. they need to talk themselves into not counter punching on the issue, which is a shame. >> 100 percent. and nbc's poll shows, no one cares about this stuff. but voters do care about democracy. it's a top issue. charlie sykes and molly jong-fast, we'll have to leave it there. thank you for your analysis. >> still to come, the continuing outrage and iran over the death of mahsa amini, and the oppression and prosecution, don't forget you can listen to the mehdi hasan anywhere free, wherever you get your podcasts. and you know you can hear the latest updates from all your favorite msnbc shows, anytime, anywhere on any device just tune in, scan the qr quoting here now, we'll be right back after a short break. r a short break. customizes your car insurance so you only pay for what you need! 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her family told bbc persian that she disappeared into iran on september the 20th after burning her head scarf while protesting mahsa amini's death. citing the account of a friend with her at the time and says she was followed by iranian security forces. more than a week after she disappeared, the police called her family to say a body matching her features had been found in the backyard of a building and they said she had jumped to her death. the family believes she was arrested after the protest and abused. it's a tragic tale that's horrific lee familiar to the one told to the family of this teenage girl, who was name serena -- rain out already said she also died by suicide. serena -- she died by suicide, they claim, after jumping from a roof. according to amnesty international, 16-year-old serena was killed when security forces beat her, beat her with batons at a protest on september the 23rd. and some of the videos she posted to youtube, serena reported to be simply singing popular music. she can be seen to be excited about the end of exams, like any other teenage girl. in others, she's reported to be talking about women's rights, including the rejection of the mandatory iranian dress code. and the norway-based group, iran human rights, said yesterday that at least 185 people, including at least 19 children have been killed in a nationwide protest across iran. earlier today, those protests continued. high school girls in university students among those demonstrating again in dozens of cities across iran, despite the use of tear gas, clubs, and in many cases, according to human rights groups, live ammunition as well, the use of which the iranian government denies. the next time, and sadly, tragically, surely, there will be a next time, the next time that you hear a young woman or a miracle in iran allegedly jumping on -- that of complications from surgery, she had more than a decade ago after going to a protest, i want you to remember the name mahsa, nica, serena. when we come back, i'll speak to iranian american scholar about the power of their voices, why women in iran have taken to the streets and his new book. stay with us. stay with us can get it on us at t-mobile. apple business essentials with apple care+ is included so you can easily manage your team's devices, here, and here. all on the network with more 5g coverage. it's the ultimate business trifecta, with the new iphone 14 pro on us. only from t-mobile for business. people remember ads with young people having a good time. so to help you remember that liberty mutual customizes your home insurance, here's a pool party. ♪ good times. insurance! ♪ only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ some days, it felt like asthma was holding me back. but asthma has taken enough. so i go triple... with trelegy. with 3 medicines in 1 inhaler,... it's the only once-daily treatment for adults that takes triple action against asthma symptoms. trelegy helps make breathing easier,... improves lung function,... and lasts for 24 hours. go triple... go trelegy. because asthma has taken enough. trelegy won't replace a rescue inhaler... for sudden breathing problems. trelegy contains a medicine that increases risk of hospitalizations and death from asthma problems when used alone. when this medicine is used with an inhaled corticosteroid,... like in trelegy,... there is not a significant increased risk of these events. do not take trelegy more than prescribed. trelegy may increase risk of thrush and infections. get emergency care for serious allergic reactions. see your doctor if your asthma does not improve or gets worse. don't let asthma take another breath. go triple. go trelegy. ask your doctor about trelegy today. i think i changed my mind about these glasses. go triple. go trelegy. yeah, it happens. that's why visionworks gives you 100 days to change your mind. it's simple. anything else i can help you with? like what? visionworks. see the difference. on saturday night, a very strange thing happened on iranian state tv. a news bulletin was hacked live on air for 15 seconds, flashing images of amassed men and the supreme leader -- surrounding by flames. this comes as protests across iran enter their fourth week despite attempts at a fierce crackdown by iran's leaders. but as iranian american scholar and author reza aslan writes for time this week, we have something the iranian regime fears even more than guns. we have our voices. reza aslan as a new book out called an american martyr in persia, the epic life and tragic death of howard basketball. he joins me now. thanks so much for coming on the show. i want to start with your piece in time this week. you're right we are now witnessing what can only be described as a fourth revolution in iran. walk us through why you say that. some might say, that's hyperbole, there've been mass protests before and is regime always survives. >> there have been mass protests before. that's true. this is in protest. these aren't demonstrations. what we are seeing here is a massive coalition that certainly began with a group of brave women who were protesting and rallying for their most basic rights but has since become something much bigger than this. we are seeing farmworkers and factory workers and retirees and teachers, old people and young people. the majority of the provinces in iran have now seen massive uprisings. this isn't just an urbanized middle class demonstration like we saw in 2009. obviously, it remains to be seen where this all goes. but make no mistake. this is, by now, can only think be referred to as a revolution. >> so, fascinating. you also write in your piece, quote, if we start seeing the younger clergy and seminary students break from their elders and join the protests on the street, that may truly signal the end is near for the regime. do you think that's really on the carts? if not, how do you see this movement, this moment ending? >> there are three major revolutions that happened in iran in the 20th century. 1906, 1953, and 1979. all of them involved precisely this kind of younger, progressive claude g seminary students who eventually joined the young revolutionaries and that business interests. that coalition, the business interests, the young people, and this scenario students, it is what has always been the recipe for a successful revolution, for better or worse in iran. it should be important -- this is very important for people to understand who don't understand the complexities of iran, yes, that there is a clerical regime. yes, there is an ayatollah. there is a supreme leader. but she-ism is a very diverse religious tradition. there are hundreds if not thousands of younger clerics and students who think the entire islamic republic is an abomination. once we start seeing them enjoying the protests and start speaking out against their elders, that's when we are going to see the same thing that happened in 06, 53, and 79. this is probably going to lead to some kind of major change in the government. >> you've mentioned some of the iranian history of revolutions already. your new book features the story of howard baskerville, an american missionary teacher who fought in iran's revolution at the dawn of the 20th century. he is a hero in iran. but he isn't known here in america. why is his story so important and relevant? >> well, because vax kerrville died for the same rights that iranians are 116 years later still fighting for the same -- the most basic human rights. the ability to have a say in the decisions that rule your life. while that is somewhat depressing to think that here we are still, still begging for the same rights we've been begging for in iran for more than a century. at the same time what baskerville does is he gives us a guide, a model for how we, especially in the united states, where we take these freedoms for granted, can actually raise our voices and support those clamoring for those very same freedoms in iran. >> and you are talking about an american in iran. of course, america's relationship with iran is one of the most fascinating geopolitical relationships of them. all it goes back several decades. how do you think that biden administration has handled the situation in iran so far? obama was famously criticized for not -- the protest in 09. his argument was american involvement allows the iranian government to paint domestic protests as a foreign plot. how do you think biden is threading that needle right now? >> i don't think biden is all that different than the rest of the administrations over the last four decades in dealing with iran. the goal has always been the same. sanctions, containment, isolation, as though that's going to somehow magically work. forget about governments because the animosity between the american and iranian governments, and that is deep. what i'm talking about here is the fact that the people of iran and the people of america has so much in common with each other. right now, the people in iran are begging us to pay attention. the more that we make our voices heard, the more we make sure the iranian government knows that we are watching, we are not turning a blind eye to the atrocities they are committing against their own citizens, the more those people on the streets will be empowered to actually make fundamental change. >> well said. we will have to leave it there. reza aslan, thank you so much for joining me tonight. the book is called an american martyr in persia, the epic life and tragic death of howard baskerville. it's out now. thanks. coming up at the top of the hour, former obama white house speech writer, cody keenan, on them in terms of what he believes are the ten most consequential days of the obama presidency. that's tonight at 9 pm eastern right here on msnbc. i will be back in a moment with -- as we try to make sense of kanye west. wish us luck. see you then. customizes your car insurance so you only pay for what you need! 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he promoted white lives matter, a slogan that has been labeled as hate speech. and somehow, despite all these aggressions, he was given this platform on fox and tucker under the fallacy that he was a freethinker he was being silenced. to your point, are we really surprised by any of the hypocrisy of the right wing in this country anymore? of course, the gop has embraced him along with the guy who tried to overthrow our government and elon musk who wants to give ukraine to russia and taiwan to china. and now the arbiter of free speech on twitter. can you imagined elon musk this evening just after welcoming kanye west back to twitter, then turns around and see him go on this antisemitic tirade. >> it will be a test of all this free speech absolutist nonsense we hear from people, that there should be no restrictions. everyone should be able to say whatever they want. even this? even say i'm gonna go deaf contrary on jewish people on twitter? it would be a real test if elon musk does end up buying twitter. who knows if that will ever happen. what he would allow. i would like to say, ayman, we've got used to islamophobia being mainstreamed over the years. but the mainstream of antisemitism is truly shocking, truly -- even today, even after west's remarks. -- you have the tweet, the republican ag in indiana has tweeted in defense of kanye west, saying it's just independent thinking and having opposing thoughts from the norm of hollywood. antisemitism now is fine with top republican elected officials. it's just astonishing how far that party has gone to the far right. they are not hiding it anymore. tuberville is saying anti-black things, now and to do is things. if it feeds their own agenda and helps them in their political objectives, whether it's herschel walker or kanye west, they will use you, they will abuse you, all in the name of power. it's great to see you as always. great show. enjoy the rest of your evening. i saw you were super excited by interviewing mark hamel there. i could see the excitement on your face. well done, my friend. >> that was a great moment. >> yes, i can tell. all right. coming up tonight on ayman, republicans win at all costs campaign. it goes beyond supporting terrible candidates. it could actually tear our democracy apart. and then, the shameful gop attempts to take credit for one of president biden's biggest achievements. and the grass is greener. the historic presidential announcement on marijuana that is changing thousands of lives for the better. i'm ayman mohyeldin, let's get started. all right, tonight we want to begin with a lesson. bear with me for a second because herschel walker, for all of his faults, as a senate candidate in georgia, he's actually taught us something important. i know it's hard to believe we could learn anything