that determination that this is fair game. >> i want to follow up on that. just the fact that evidence has been presented to a grand jury has not meant that the fraud crime would be anticipated already. that would be litigation before the 23rd over whether or not otherwise privileged communications between donald trump and his lawyers, plural, by the way, but this is rudy giuliani, the cindy powell, jenna alice, there's all of these other lawyers that are involved, there would be some kind of dispositive ruling that would come from the trump trial court judge, state quarter federal court, before we get that evidence, right? >> yes. we did have these findings by a judge for the grand jury that said that, for the investigative purposes, testimony could be presented. now we have a separate issue, whether this should be presented at trial. there will be motions to suppress that based on the attorney-client privilege, and also, katie, this is a reason that sometimes trial dates don't stick. and fact, they really stack. you can't anticipate all the motions that might be filed, and how long it actually takes for them to play out.