>> listen, giving charitable donations, however commendable, has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not a presidential candidate should release tax returns. they are two different issues. ann romney suggesting that this means mitt romney isn't hiding anything is, with all due respect, a ludicrous argument. mitt romney not taking a salary as governor is also totally irrelevant to the issue. here's the second part of ann romney's answer. >> there's so many things that will be open again for more attack, and you just want to get more material for more attack and that's just the answer. and we've given all you people need to know and understand about our financial situation and about how we live our life. >> we've given all you people need to know. what about we the people and what we need to know to form a more perfect union? again, this answer is condescending to the extreme. we the people is the predicate of our democracy. we the people need to know the very details of mitt romney's tax returns to determine for ourselves whether or not he is hiding something. if he isn't, come forth. isn't this the same extreme viewpoints about barack obama's birthday certificate? they were extremely curious about that, but have no curiosity about this? come on, mitt romney. let's play fair. what are you hiding? then we have the candidate himself, who is trying to change the subject from his very big tax return problem and is pushing a lie about what the president said about business. >> when the president said that if you got a business, you didn't build it, come here and talk to brian and you'll learn that, in fact, he did build this business. someone else isn't responsible for what he did here. >> now there you go again, mitt romney. we must play again what the president actually said last friday. >> if you are successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. there was a great teacher somewhere in your life. somebody helped to create this unbelievable american system that we have that allowed you to thrive. somebody invested in roads and bridges. if you got a business, you didn't build that. somebody else made that happen. >> am i missing something? isn't this the american way to acknowledge others have helped us? mitt romney, if somebody changed your diaper, you didn't do it on your own. all the president is doing is reflecting what martin luther king jr. said when he earlier, 50 years ago, suggested when you get up in the morning, the world joins you. you get coffee, that's from columbia, you got potatoes, that's from idaho. the world helps us do what we do. dr. king said there's a ground crew that's often present but not talked about when we talk about flying. yes, the pilot is there, but the ground crew is important as well. this is all the president is saying. this deconstructs the mythology of self-made men, when indeed they've been helped on every side. the president has moved on, opening a whole new line of attack against candidate romney, one that americans better pay closer attention to. here's the president in florida today. >> he plans to turn medicare into a voucher program, so if that voucher isn't worth enough to buy the health insurance that's on the market, you're out of luck. you're on your own. one independent non-partisan study found that seniors would have to pay nearly $6,400 more for medicare than they do today. it's wrong to ask seniors to pay more for medicare just so millionaires and billionaires can pay less in taxes. >> do you people get that? this is significant, because mitt romney supports congressman paul ryan's draconian budget and americans need to know what he'd sign into law as president. according to greg sergeant of the washington post, don't actually believe romney would enact such extreme legislation, so it's incumbent on the obama campaign to inform the american people what they are in for with a romney presidency. get your cell phones out. i want to know what you think. tonight's question, do you think mitt romney will cut medicare and give the rich another tax cut? a, for yes, b, for no. or go to our blog, ed.msnbc.com. let's bring in former dnc communications director karen finney and logan gidley. let's begin with ann romney's comments, because i believe the romney campaign hurt themselves even more today. what do you think about that, hogan? >> well, ann is the better half. i think everybody can agree on that. a very likable woman, great surrogate for her husband, there's no doubt. look, she is right about one thing, and that is if they keep the taxes and don't release more than two years, he's going to get hammered for not releasing more taxes. if he releases the taxes, he's going to get hammered for what's in them. this has been an issue for mitt romney since he ran for senate back in '94, and it's a calculated move by the campaign not to release these documents. for some reason, people in boston believe what's in the documents will hurt more than the barrage of attacks for not releasing the documents. they've made that political calculation, sticking to it, and they are not releasing anymore documents. >> seems it's not an effective strategy, because they keep getting hammered. even their republican allies are joining in, and ann romney, usually pretty effective, really compounded the problem, i think, don't you agree? it sounds like she's implying there really is something to hide here. >> that's part of the problem overall both in her answer and frankly, governor romney himself. every time he says, if i release them, you're going to pick through them and find things to attack me with. clearly, you believe there are things in there that are problematic, you believe it's problematic how you can explain to the american people how you can be a quote, unquote, job creator when you created much of your wealth by keeping that money offshore in these accounts in bermuda and the cayman islands and, perhaps, various tax loopholes. the other thing on this attack on president obama, somehow mitt romney thinks he got there all by himself is somehow disingenuous, he got a lot of help, tax breaks and tax loopholes he had no problem exploiting when it came to accumulating his own wealth. >> no doubt about that. the romney campaign is still after the president about his business comments and romney went to an auto repair shop in massachusetts to make the point today, but the company in question got government help and industrial revenue bond. so karen, the romney campaign is tripping all over this one, too, aren't they? >> absolutely. the idea is very simple. in this country, you move forward and you get ahead because somebody else helped make sure there was an opportunity there for you. nobody does it on their own. that's, you know, part of the role of government. that's part of the role of the individual and your own enthusiasm and hard work, but there are opportunities in this country. that's part of what obama is really talking about in terms of what makes this country so special, so these dog whistle politics of saying he doesn't understand what it is to be an american and he doesn't understand, sort of have this attitude of i'm going to talk about the president like this, but then i'm not accountable to tell you anything about my taxes or about my dealings or even, frankly, giving an explanation. any time you ask the romney folks to give an explanation, they say look at the plan, 59-point plan, that's on the website. >> exactly. that hook a brother up deal they never talk about specifically. hogan, mitt romney has made president obama's point. here it is. >> i know that you recognize a lot of people help you in a business. perhaps the banks, the investors, no question your mom and dad, your school teachers, the people that provide roads, the fire, the police. a lot of people help. there are a lot of people in government who help us and allow us to have an economy that works and allow entrepreneurs and business leaders of various kinds to start businesses and create jobs. we all recognize that. that's an important thing. >> so hogan, it's good for romney to say it, but not obama, it's good when he says it because he legitimates it? romney is lying about what the president said. >> look, i think both sides jump on what these politicians say quite frequently. speaking of someone working for rick santorum who had a propensity of going too far once in awhile and going back to explain what he said on television shows. we don't want robotic candidates, someone so poll tested and driven they give you pat answers so far. >> you're saying romney went too far? >> i'm sorry? >> are you saying romney went too far? >> no, in the summertime, no one's paying attention. you have to hammer somebody on things that are fringe elements. >> is this fringe -- is it a fringe point when he's simply saying obama is ridiculous somebody else helps you but he's caught saying the same thing. answer that question, is that fair for him to deny the contradiction in his own statement? >> no, i see what you're saying. he's making the attack and coming back and kind of -- >> saying the same thing. >> that's right, i see what you're saying. but this is the time in the race we're going to focus on the tougher issues, the medicare issue, like you mentioned in florida. obama hit on that today. we're going to begin to focus on what the american people care about, and just to your earlier point for a second, one of the things with the tax returns, you mentioned the republicans telling mitt romney to release these returns, one of the reasons we want him to release these, quite frankly, we're pretty selfish. we don't want to come on your show and have these conversations about tax returns. we want to have a debate about president obama ruining the economy. >> i thought you had love for me. karen, you jump in and show the love. >> okay. two things. i think hogan would agree, just as a communications practitioner that the ideal thing to have done for a year, year and a half ago for the romney team to put together a pact, eight years, ten years, sit down with five or so reporters and frame this story rather than now having this liability, because part of what it's doing is you're seeing sort of the fraying of what was already a pretty tenuous amount of support from the conservative underpinnings for mitt romney. people are not comfortable having to defend this, because they know it's a huge liability. >> all right. that will have to be the last word. karen finney, hogan gidley, thank you very much. share your thoughts on twitter @edshow and on facebook. coming up, mitt romney says he's not trying to avoid paying taxes, so why is he sending his money overseas? we'll talk about the high cost of putting his money where his mouth is next. dogs are the best of the best of the best. they don't get any bester than this! omg it's kosher. with no fillers, by-products, artificial flavors or colors. hebrew national. the better-than-a-hot dog- hot dog. use the points we earn with our citi thankyou card for a relaxing vacation. ♪ sometimes, we go for a ride in the park. maybe do a little sightseeing. or, get some fresh air. but this summer, we used our thank youpoints to just hang out with a few friends in london. [ male announcer ] the citi thankyou visa card. redeem the points you've earned to travel with no restrictions. rewarding you, every step of the way. begins with back pain and a choice. take advil, and maybe have to take up to four in a day. or take aleve, which can relieve pain all day with just two pills. good eye. coming up, our expert tax detective, david cay johnston, will tell us what he thinks romney is hiding in his secret returns. later, the number of republicans condemning michele bachmann's witch hunt is nearing an even dozen. i'll ask what it took them so long to figure out. bachmann has no clue what she's talking about. share your thoughts with us on facebook and on twitter using the #edschultz. we'll be right back. ♪ [ male announcer ] ok, so you're no marathon man. but thanks to the htc one x from at&t, with its built in beats audio, every note sounds amazingly clear. ...making it easy to get lost in the music... and, well... rio vista?!! [ male announcer ] ...lost. introducing the musically enhanced htc one x from at&t. rethink possible. introducing the musically enhanced htc one x from at&t. so i test... a lot. do you test with this? freestyle lite test strips? i don't see... beep! wow! that didn't take much blood. yeah, and the unique zipwik tab targets the blood and pulls it in. so easy. yep. freestyle lite needs just a third the blood of onetouch ultra. really? so testing is one less thing i have to worry about today. great. call or click today and get strips and a meter free. test easy. this is the land of opportunity. we welcome people here with dreams and say to them, come build it. >> welcome back. mitt romney spoke passionately today about the importance of investing in america. keep that in mind as i ask you this next question, how much money do you have in your ira or 401(k) right now? today, the wall street journal estimated mitt romney's ira, listen to this, is worth somewhere between $20 million and $101 million. ira. it makes you wonder, why would you keep $20 million in a retirement account? one answer is tax savings. the wall street journal found many of the assets in romney's ira were places overseas, like the cayman islands. romney's people insist he's not avoiding taxes. they say the cayman island accounts are not tax havens and it's false to say so. so if he's not saving on taxes, why put $100 million in a retirement accounts? romney admits, he's, like, saving money on taxes. >> i can tell you, we follow the tax laws, and if there's an opportunity to save taxes, we, like anybody else in this country, will follow that opportunity. >> show me the money. jerry mcguire moment here. so remember this, while mitt romney praises american opportunity, he could be saving as much as $35 million a year by sending his money overseas. let's turn to david cay johnston, pulitzer prize winning columnist and author of the book "free lunch." welcome to the show, my friend. >> thank you, michael. >> if these investments are legal, what is mitt romney hiding? all this suspicion being generated, cloud is hanging over him, now it's beginning to rain now. >> the question isn't about the iras, when he takes the money out, he'll have to pay the 35%. the question is, why isn't he releasing his returns? obama's a cautious man. look at the way he got rid of osama bin laden, you know, he took the action, but he was very cautious about it. well, i don't think they said this without knowing that there are years with no taxes. remember, 23 years of returns from '84 up until 2007 were given to the john mccain campaign. so there's something in his tax returns he's concluded it's safer and better not to disclose them. >> you think the obama campaign has sure knowledge of this. somebody's leaked it, somebody's scene it? >> there's an abstract, somebody testified under oath, or somebody made a mistake. years ago i wrote the story donald trump had a negative net worth because somebody gave me his personal net worth statement his bankers prepared. >> somebody better be careful around you. tell us how tax havens actually hurt america. >> i think the cayman islands is actually a threat to the national security of the united states. here's what happens. american corporations put their intellectual property, the right to, the logos outside the building, you know, the sign that says walmart or pfizer, and they put them overseas. >> right. >> then they charge -- they pay a royalty to this overseas entity, and it appears as well more than $2 trillion of untaxed profits now sitting offshore as a result. well, if tax to 35%, that would bring in $700 billion. how much is that? all the income taxes you and i and everybody else in america will pay this year up until around halloween. >> wow. david, why is it then, fat cats we can understand, people with deep pockets, we get it. why do these politicians claim to love america so much and talking about economic patriotism have the information you have and understand the $750 billion there, isn't that un-american much more than claiming what obama is doing is un-american because he wants to talk about businesses didn't start by themselves? >> yes. and this week in reuters, i broke the story, $5.1 trillion in cash, that's the entire output of the economy from new year's day to may day and a lot of it is held offshore and untaxed. it's simple, the people who are financing these campaigns are people who don't want to pay taxes, don't believe that anybody helped them. they don't believe what romney just said a moment ago. they believe that whatever the law allows is okay. >> right. >> and then they go in and get the laws written to allow them to do these things and go, but i'm just doing what the law says. >> that's where morality comes in, right? because you could say it may be legal, but not necessarily ethical, but suspicious morally, you're controlling the writing of the law. >> it also represents a very troubling kind of thinking. when i was growing up, it was drilled into the head of everybody i knew, you are stewards of the earth for the time you're here. there are going to be people who will come long after you, you may be a kid now, but some day you'll be an old man with gray hair, yet the approach taken by many people in our country today is now, now, now, now, now. who are they? the people at the top, wealthiest people. >> no differed gratification they claim the poor always have. david cay johnson, thank you so much. michele bachmann goes on a witch hunt and now republicans are condemning her actions. mitt romney says president obama doesn't understand what makes america unique. our panel will weigh in on romney's new bogus lines of attack against the president. stay tuned. those surprising little things she does still make you take notice. there are a million reasons why. but your erectile dysfunction that could be a question of blood flow. cialis for daily use helps you be ready anytime the moment's right. you can be more confident in your ability to be ready. and the same cialis is the only daily ed tablet approved to treat ed and symptoms of bph, like needing to go frequently or urgently. tell your doctor about all your medical conditions and medications, and ask if your heart is healthy enough for sexual activity. do not take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain, as this may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. do not drink alcohol in excess with cialis. side effects may include headache, upset stomach, delayed backache or muscle ache. to avoid long-term injury, seek immediate medical help for an erection lasting more than four hours. if you have any sudden decrease or loss in hearing or vision, or if you have any allergic reactions such as rash, hives, swelling of the lips, tongue or throat, or difficulty breathing or swallowing, stop taking cialis and get medical help right away. ask your doctor about cialis for daily use and a 30-tablet free trial. do you have any idea where you're going ? wherever the wind takes me. this is so off course. nature can surprise you sometimes... next time, you drive. next time, signal your turn. ...that's why we got a subaru. love wherever the road takes you. republicans are turning on one of their own after she launches a mccarthy-like attack on a long-time public servant. last month, congresswoman michele bachmann and four other house republicans sent letters to top intelligence and security officials suggesting one of secretary of state hillary clinton's top aides has ties to islamic extremists, huma abedin. they want a federal investigation to determine if abedin is using her position at the state departm